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8 Months After a Surge of Complaints, Apple Announces a Repair Program For Its Flawed MacBooks and MacBook Pros (theoutline.com)
Casey Johnston, writing for The Outline: At long last, Apple admitted to its customers that its MacBook and MacBook Pro keyboard designs are so flawed and prone to sticking or dead keys, as originally reported by The Outline in October, and that it will cover the cost of repairs beyond the products' normal warranty. The admission comes after the company has been hit with no fewer than three class action lawsuits concerning the computers and their ultra-thin butterfly-switch keyboards. While the repair and replacement program covers costs and notes that Apple will repair both single keys as well as whole keyboards when necessary, it doesn't note whether the replacements will be a different, improved design that will prevent the problem from happening again (and again, and again).
I have had a 2016 MBP and a 2017 MBP. I've read a ton about the keyboard issue and haven't experienced it at all. I use my laptop outdoors on job sites a lot, and when I fly a DSLR drone I get dust everywhere. My MacBook Pro get high usage and high mileage. I'm not sure if it's a defective batch or something, but surely it isn't a design problem. Not every one has the issue?
No refunds.
Just because you haven't personally seen it doesn't mean it's not a design problem.
Look at the Macbook pro from 2006. It's a beast compared to the "pros" we get now. A 2006 Macbook bro with 2019 Specs (that means 32GB ram) will sell like hot cakes.
The keyboard guts are sealed, dust is absolutely not the issue. That's Apple throwing shit against the wall so you have to pay them something.
I'm suspecting that it's corrosion or bridging of the silvered contacts. Can't be too sure since I haven't seen one yet with this issue, as they are so new they will get taken to the Apple Store. It would not surprise me at all if this was from slivers coming loose over time from running the stamping dies too long without resharpening. If that's the case, and I lean towards it more than a design issue, this is indeed a batch-to-batch QC problem.
1) Announce a revolutionary chassis redesign that nobody asked for, which was necessary to make the product thinner, which nobody asked for
2) A few owners start complaining about a defect in the product. Other owners tell those owners to shut up and stop drinking the Hatorade or buy a Windoze product instead.
3) The owners who told the original owners to shut up start complaining about the defect themselves.
4) Apple tells owners there's nothing wrong with the product and that they must be using it wrong
5) Apple releases instructions on how to owners can avoid the defect by buying a piece of plastic or an air blower
6) More owners complain about the defect. Apple goes silent.
7) A class-action lawsuit is announced
8) More class-action lawsuits are announced
9) Apple announces they a very few number of products are affected by a defect and will be fixed by Apple on a per-case basis
It does not get high usage/milage, if you are buying new one every year. This message was brought to you by Captain Obvious. May your anecdotal nonsense die alone and afraid.
So much for Apple's so called "best design" in the business.
You sometimes wonder whether technology writers are in Apple's pockets.
The question is: Have they all drank Apple's KoolAid?
Keyboard Service Program for MacBook and MacBook Pro
https://www.apple.com/support/keyboard-service-program-for-macbook-and-macbook-pro/
A design problem means given a set of conditions, the issue will arise. Having had two MBPs with outdoor dusty usage without issue indicates It affects some, but not others. Sounds like a manufacturing issue to me
The new keyboards came out on MBp in 2016. None of them are high mileage. High usage in the sense it gets used every day. How is that not valid?
Do the new keyboards run 20% slower after the "repair ?"
It's a trap!
No sig today...
It just works. Until it doesn't.
I still have to give up my laptop for three days to a week, which I can't afford to do.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
I bet Apple halfway wishes they could just do away with laptops and desktops. The real money is in the phones.
what you pay for.
Apple's biggest problem is they focus on design over function. obsessed so much with thin and some sort of design uniqueness they ignore how it affects function. The unfortunate thing with this arrangement that Apple is finally admitting but only really delaying another failure. As they will replace or repair these bad keyboards with the same parts that were originally in manufacturing. I have not read a single mention of these replacements being any different or improved.
If the current keyboards are sealed, why did Apple just get a patent two months ago for a sealed keyboard design?
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
How did you do that without mangling the case? I have scratches from putting mine on top of a wicker/wood basket.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Dust was probably a quip from the Genius which the blogger or journalist then blew up over. It's not like they could actually diagnose that a key is broken because of a speck of dust.
Video below shows a broken butterfly mechanism not bending.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryRVWBrG8i0
is that the "just works" claims come from them not putting bloatware and crapware on their laptops. My kid started college with a pretty high end Toshiba (i7, 7200 rpm drive, 16gb ram) and it ran so bad we thought it was broken and replaced it with a Mac book (I needed her focused on studies so I ponied up the money). When I got my hands on the Toshiba to return it I couldn't find anything wrong so I did a clean load of Win10 and it was fine after that.
As somebody who only ever builds their laptops it hadn't occurred to me that in 2016 (when this all went down) bloatware could still be that big a problem, especially on something with those specs. Just leaving the bloatware off and bumping the price $100 bucks to make up for it was the smartest thing Apple ever did.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
They are replacing with the same keyboard that will break again.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Will we ever get real macbooks ever again
No, sadly the nearest you can get now is a Dell or MS Surface Book in a tartan case.
Shit is softer than wicker.
I am an astronaut and I use my 2017 MBP in outer space, where no one can hear you scream. I also have not experienced the problem even though I have been using the 2017 MBP for five years now and it gets high mileage (literally, since I'm in orbit around Earth at a speed of roughly 17,150 miles per hour).
You are welcome on my lawn.
I bet Apple halfway wishes they could just do away with laptops and desktops.
It's not just a wish, it is effectively what they are doing! The Mac Pro model they sell as new is now 4-5 years old and the mac mini has half the computing power of a laptop and their laptops are slowly morphing into tablets having already lost the function keys and all but one port.
I am just trying to figure out the utility of a single lens reflex mechanism on a drone. I figure it must just be marketing jargon, acronym goo that people who preen over their appearance gobble up off sales brochures. The kind of stuff that people who always have the latest Apple gear concern themselves with.
We shouldn't allow Apple to get away with this shit. Just cause they *finally* introduce a repair program, doesn't negate all the hell people have had to go through. Those class action lawsuits should continue on. And the lawsuits need to stop being so stupidly toothless. If Apple doesn't get hit with a bill that's at least 5 billion, they will just treat these as the cost of doing business.
IMO Apple doesn't face enough class actions considering how breathtakingly shit their entire product lineup has become. It's very frustrating how their hardware used to be absolutely second to none, and justified their premium, but in the last decade or so they've turned into nothing but a train wreck running on momentum.
I'm so livid with the entire computer industry today. Your choices are: Buy Apple and pay extra for shit, gimmicky hardware, buy Microsoft and get ok hardware but an OS so offensively managed that your machine can stop working through no fault of your own, or buy Google and have a spy camera shoved up your ass. (Or get Linux and be prepared to put your sysadmin hat to perform an operation that every other OS has been able to handle easily for the past 2 decades)
There are literally NO good options today. It's really depressing.
It's *whatever abuse the market will bear*. It is a totally antipathetic/psychopathic system, devoid of empathy, You are on your own, totally dependent on others to make anything work in your favor. But, it's what people want, and it is a 'natural' system of accretion.
I agree. Why was this modded down?
...though the keyboard *really* does do what I typed in the title when it gets moody.
Now, for a quick "My two cents worth."
They keys ae (<--- REALL MISS) too close together. That means if you miss one, even slightly, you are going to type something lile thjis.
They sometimes miss characters. That means that I have to pay close attention to my touch typing or I will make an error.
It randomly repeats characters.
The touch pad is too close to the keyboard, which increases errors because of random touches. Think of it this way, multi field forms + random mouse movements = odd responses.
It does feel nice though.
When I sell this thing, at least it's going to have a new top case.
I am just trying to figure out the utility of a single lens reflex mechanism on a drone.
How about not all cameras and lenses are created equal?
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
Amazing shots. That's what it's for. In this case specifically, it's a DJI-S1000+ and a canon DSLR with the DJI Gimbal. Professional equipment. If you have to ask, you wouldn't know how to use it
Lol that this got upvoted 'Informative'.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
ACs don't lie ;)
The new laptops are actually really well designed, hardware wise. The storage is great, the screen is great, the hardware itself is really durable... but the keyboard is just too sensitive to small particles which are sadly all to much a factor in everyones laptop life.
Supposedly the 2017 keyboards improved on that aspect, though I'm not sure how much. At this point though enough people are wary of the keyboards that Apple has to make some significant change there, maybe this program is a first step that means real change in coming to the laptops later this year... I know a number of people holding off on buying a newer laptop in large part because of fear of this keyboard issue.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Apple usually doesn't say anything about this kind of stuff until they do investigations and come up with a plan (probably because everyone lives to nitpick and critisize every word they say). Sounds like they're doing a reasonable thing here but I'm sure I'll get modded down by the haters here.
Wow, you are so smart. I am impressed. How did you spot the trap I wonder. Did you post the trap anonymously?
Yeah, but why would you need the reflex mirror and viewfinder if it's on a drone? Perhaps something like a Sony with an electronic viewfinder would be just fine, without the additional mechanical complexity and weight for something you're not using. Good interchangeable lenses don't necessarily require a reflex mirror.
Their lawyers determined they would lose all the class action lawsuits and this is the cheapest option.
You have been using a 2017 MBP for 5 years (you even spelled it out so this is not a fat finger exercise)? Really?
Are you a Russian Astronaut (Cosmonaut) where the new math is 2018 - 2017 = 5. There goes that pesky Russian math again.
Mueller's investigation is a legal flaw.
Is this the same Mueller who is a life long Republican, was assigned the task by a ex Republican Senator's carefully selected 2nd in command?
Wow, just wow. Everything in this investigation was instigated by Republicans - and now you bitch that it is both legally and politically flawed?
How much is Putin paying you?
While the repair and replacement program covers costs and notes that Apple will repair both single keys as well as whole keyboards when necessary, it doesn't note whether the replacements will be a different, improved design that will prevent the problem from happening again
If Apple covers the cost, it would be a stupid idea from them to make partial fixes that will break again, and cost them again.
And I had no idea this was an issue. I saw weird keyboard repeat on a coworkers laptop and thought it was a software issue. I got such a laptop issued a few days later. 2 days in I had weird keyboard repeat issues and was told about this being a design issue with that laptop model. Lovely. Can I have my old one back? It worked fine, just bigger and heavier.
But what is the single lens reflex viewfinder component on the drone for? It sounds more like a 'buzzword' for 'more expensive camera price' to me. It sounds like there isn't a viewfinder at all on the drone. DSLR on regular cameras usually just means 'changeable lenses' and a higher price.
"Apple has determined that a small percentage of the keyboards in certain MacBook and MacBook Pro models may exhibit one of more of the following behaviors"
Small my arse.
It's all the keyboards they made in the last 2 years.
They wont even admit it internally that they fucked up majorly.
They also can't spell "behaviour" properly.
but...
Apple has seriously fucked up priorities. I have never liked their eye-candy. Hating the keyboard seems to make the eye-candy worse.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" -- HST
If you mean people who paid for repairs, then yes.
Dust is absolutely the issue. Dust gets under the keys. Apple's previous recommendation to "fix" the problem was to hold the laptop at a 75 degree angle and blow air into it.
You have been using a 2017 MBP for 5 years (you even spelled it out so this is not a fat finger exercise)? Really?
Are you a Russian Astronaut (Cosmonaut) where the new math is 2018 - 2017 = 5. There goes that pesky Russian math again.
Don't you realize that astronauts experience time dilation?
Check the filing date, patents take years to work through the system.
Toughbooks, etc, have been using sealed keyboards for 15+ years...
AASC (Apple Authorized Service Center) Tech here.
To answer a few questions:
1.) No. Apple will not give you a shiny new improved replacement for your crappy butterfly keyboard. It'll be more of the same old garbage.
2.) No, Apple doesn't care if you keep replacing it over and over. I do, because you're going to come in and be an annoying, whiny, entitled little shit about it, but I'm getting paid so I'll ignore your complaints about how Apple doesn't seem to care about you because I'm getting paid. Short version is, they really don't care about you--and haven't since Jobs died.
3.) That recall? Yeah, it won't last forever, so take advantage while you can. Once those machines become 'vintage' (Applespeak for "old"), Apple's going to wash their hands of it and cancel the recall. Then, when the top cases (because of the unibody construction, the keyboard is considered part of the top case and I don't get paid to replace keys, only top cases, so it's always a top case repair even if I have to break a few more keys for it to qualify) on those machines all break (AS INTENDED), Apple will smile and say, "Well, we've got these NEW [20xx] Macbook Pros.." and expect you to shell out $1500+ for a new machine.
The reality of the situation is, Apple is now taking the 'laptop PC' route to construction: cheap, shoddy parts, cheap, Chinese labor, integrated parts that mean if one thing breaks you have to replace the unit. This is intentional, to prevent third party repairs and convince you it'll be cheaper to just buy a new one than it will be to repair the old one.
How did you do that without mangling the case? I have scratches from putting mine on top of a wicker/wood basket.
Unlike PCs, Macs still work when they have scratches, you idiot.