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Tesla Opens Orders To All US and Canadian Model 3 Reservation Holders (arstechnica.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: For people who put down a $1,000 deposit for a Tesla Model 3 as long as two years ago, the big day has arrived. Specifically, the day has arrived when they can give Tesla another $2,500 and then wait a few more months for their car to arrive. Days before the end of the second quarter, Tesla is now allowing all reservation holders in the United States and Canada to place orders for the Model 3. Customers will be able to choose between several variants of the Model 3 -- including the high-end "performance" model -- as well as choosing colors and option packages. However, the low-end version of the Model 3 with its long-promised $35,000 price tag isn't available to order yet.

Each customer will get a specific delivery estimate based on the model they choose and their position on the waiting list. A typical delivery window is two to four months. While the original $1,000 Model 3 deposit was fully refundable, customers who pay the extra $2,500 will be locked in three days after placing an order, the company told CNBC. That isn't a new requirement -- a Tesla spokeswoman told Ars that the company has long asked customers to pay a $2,500 deposit when they order other Tesla models.

164 comments

  1. I want one... by XXongo · · Score: 1
    I definitely want one... but I am still quite disappointed that the "moderate" price Tesla, the $35K one, is yet to appear.

    The lowest cost option of the ones being made so far is $50K. That makes it a luxury car, not a car for the people.

    1. Re: I want one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gee. Wonder why the cheap one isnt ready?

      If only there was some known practice that would explain this...

    2. Re:I want one... by msauve · · Score: 2, Informative

      "$50K. That makes it a luxury car, not a car for the people."

      That depends on operational and maintenance costs, as well as longevity. That is, unless you consider anything other than a cheap upfront cost shitbox with a short lifetime which provides job security for the dealer mechanic to be the definition of less-than-luxury.

      I'm not claiming which side of the scale Teslas fall on, just pointing out that the economics are much more than initial cost.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    3. Re:I want one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $35k for something the size of a corolla is still "luxury". That's closer to BMW/Lexus money than "for the masses" money.

    4. Re:I want one... by Luckyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Modern new cars need minimum mechanical intervention over first few years of their lives. It increases as they age, but used cars cost far less regardless.

      50k-ish USD is going to buy several decades of mechanical interventions for a decent used car, which will only set you back a few thousand. And Tesla, while cheaper to maintain, is by no means free over its life cycle.

      So yes, all current Teslas are luxury vehicles by definition.

    5. Re:I want one... by msauve · · Score: 1

      Ah, so your definition of a luxury vehicle is a new one. OK, but luxury doesn't mean what you think it means.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    6. Re:I want one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That depends on operational and maintenance costs, as well as longevity. That is, unless you consider anything other than a cheap upfront cost shitbox with a short lifetime which provides job security for the dealer mechanic to be the definition of less-than-luxury.

      Plenty of Hondas and Toyotas that are cheap upfront, and last forever.

    7. Re:I want one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tesla’s are not cheaper to maintain. Do to their shit build quality and substandard engineering, they spend more time in the shop then they do on the road.

    8. Re: I want one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love these threads, its like a ridiculously easy game of "spot the desperate investor that shorted"

    9. Re: I want one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prove him wrong.

    10. Re:I want one... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      No, luxury vehicle is a vehicle that cost far more than a budget vehicle, and as such is not a justifiable cost. You must have never lived middle class or working class life to read my statement the way you did.

      Granted, your lack of empathy on this issue is not surprising. I've seen this problem for people who spent their lives living comfortably. They make rather silly assumptions about reality for overwhelming majority of population.

    11. Re: I want one... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Electric engine and drive train have much less moving parts and much less complexity than ICE on principle.

      He has been proven wrong. We're done here.

    12. Re:I want one... by msauve · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry you can't afford a dictionary, because if you could, you'd know that luxury isn't related to cost.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    13. Re: I want one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Non moving parts need maintainance too retard. Go look on YouTube and look at all the videos that are about repairing electrical problems or parts that have nothing todo with the moving parts of the engine. Then you’ll realize just how much of a retard you are.

    14. Re: I want one... by chaboud · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, actual Tesla ownership comes with a startling number of annoying little faults, like screen failure, door failure, indicator failure...

      The difference between theory and practice? In theory, there is no difference...

    15. Re: I want one... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Certainly. So do other vehicles. On the other hand, the most expensive maintenance is typically that of engine and drive train systems, as those are commonly some of the most work intensive and complex operations, unlike say troubleshooting a problem with a door, which is a fairly simple mechanical device.

      Buying full electric engine over ICE massively reduces complexity of both engine and the drive train. As a result, it massively reduces maintenance costs on those systems. Which is why it is indeed correct to state that buying electric car will on average save you money on maintenance costs compared to average comparable ICE vehicle.

      Tesla's problem is that your typical sedan in the same size category as relevant Tesla model will be so much cheaper, that these savings simply won't be sufficient.

    16. Re:I want one... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Thank you for conceding your point with such grace and eloquence.

    17. Re:I want one... by djinn6 · · Score: 2

      Yep, I bought a 10-year-old Toyota for $4000 and used it for 14 more years. I paid maybe $10,000 on maintenance, including some fender benders. Then when I finally scrapped it, I was paid $1500 by the government for trading in a "fuel-inefficient" car. And I don't even know how much I saved on cheaper insurance and registration fees.

      Any car that costs $50,000 upfront is very costly by comparison.

    18. Re: I want one... by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      How about "bait and switch"?

      It would not be surprising to me if Tesla never produce the $35k version of the model 3. It may be that, because of all the extra costs they have incurred getting their assembly line capacity to where they need it to be, that the base Model 3 cannot be made for $35k per car. Then, if Tesla can keep the production line running with orders for the more expensive models, why would they make cars at a loss?

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
  2. Also, if you don't give us $2500... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We're allowed to keep whatever you already paid in deposit after 3 days. Suck it,

    -Elon

    1. Re:Also, if you don't give us $2500... by jeff4747 · · Score: 2

      Couldn't even manage to get to the second paragraph of the summary?

      You bears are getting desperate.

    2. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1, Interesting

      For the record, a lot of us are sick of the presumtion that because we find the operation Tesla is operating to be a scam, that it means we're speculating in the market.

      Sure, some of you are dumb enough to invest in Tesla in some sort of hopeful virtue-signaling gesture. Some are even dumber to be 'shorting' Tesla.

      The rest of us, the majority, just think the whole venture is a little pathetic.

    3. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      lol, sure thing sparky... obvious short troll is telling us that they are NOT a short troll...

      I would imagine that 'the majority' really don't give a rat's ass one way or the other, while shorts would be the ONLY ones with a reason to constantly fling poo. C'mon how about you enlighten me?

    4. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Pathetic; not worth flinging poo at.

      Aw, you'll never get it. Never mind.

    5. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      try me , unless you just don't have facts to back up your claims... *crickets*

    6. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by Cederic · · Score: 1

      How exactly are you expecting him to prove that he hasn't shorted Tesla stock?

      Perhaps you could provide some evidence that he has? Just that he's not the one slinging around accusations here.

      I too have no shorted Tesla stock, despite feeling they're overpriced. I'm also sure as fuck not handing over $2500 for a car that I'd have no confidence of ever receiviung.

      Luckily my financial acumen greatly exceeds my ability to type the word receivinng.

    7. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK sock puppet, I was actually asking for proof that he was NOT a troll, but support for his actual claim of, " a lot of us are sick of the presumtion that because we find the operation Tesla is operating to be a scam"

      According to Bing, it's "on the record", so how about something, anything (like a poll or maybe anybody who isn't an actual short putting down Tesla). To be perfectly honest, if you go out and google for news on Tesla, the people who are trashing it are in serious short positions.

      FYI, I am not "anything" on Tesla, but I survived the telecom meltdown when shorts went after Level(3) with nothing more than a high stock price and the willingness to try and smear Level(3) with Enron's foibles. It did nto matter that Level(3) was actually building a network (Enron was not), or that Level(3) had some incredible deep pockets behind them, or even that thousands of Level(3) employees would be destroyed by the lies...

      Shorts exist solely to line their own packets, and they have shown a strong history of paying posters to shill on every possible front.

      So, please, my sweet widdle sock puppet, ask your right hand to type out anything to support Bing's claims...

    8. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 0

      Well, in this thread alone, Bing and probably Cedric believe Tesla is a scam. And you can add me to that list, too... Considering they lose money on each car they make, and that is BEFORE they include R&D or capital expenses, I don't see how they're going to ever turn a profit. It's like the old dot-bomb days, when it was OK to lose money on sale because somehow you'd make it up with volume.

      What Tesla HAS done is suck up a lot of VC and investor capital, and make it harder for other companies to raise funds... But it's not shown a path towards profitability, and everything says it's immensely overvalued, and every time there's the slightest hiccup the CEO comes out with some great new pronouncement (new Roadster, opening orders, shiny new fire-breathing object to play with, etc.) in an attempt to distract from the reality: they are losing billions a year, selling tens of thousands of cars.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    9. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ooooooo-k, so 3 people on slashdot 'might' have reasons to dislike Tesla beyond being shill for shorts

      at least you made an effort, you get a banana sticker

    10. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by crimson+tsunami · · Score: 1

      Why aren't the other car companies making better electric cars then? They are already 'profitable' and and don't need VC.

    11. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that is like, 'how did god make the world in 7 days?'

      of course the answer is, 'no legacy code'

      In the case of all existing car manufacturers, the real reason is sunk costs in internal combustion engine manufacturing. Tesla doesn't have to worry about abandoning billions of dollars in existing property plant and equipment like the legacy manufacturers do

    12. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      The car companies are profitable; EVs generally are not. BAIC is making the best attempt at it (as they are the largest EV maker in the world, with Nissan close behind for 2nd place), but they are barely breaking even and probably would be failing as bad as Tesla if it wasn't for the huge support from Beijing.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    13. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do not seem like you are ignorant, so I have to wonder why you are ignoring the start up costs that any new entrant into an existing market faces, particularly when they are offering a product that is so different from existing products.

    14. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are.

    15. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

      Check Tesla's financials. They lose money before you include R&D or capital expenditures - startup costs. Basically, the cost of the product (cost of revenue) and the administration/sales support for that product (SG&A) already put them negative.

      Last quarter they had $3.4B in revenue, and the cost of that revenue was $2.95B, leaving them with $450MM in gross profit. SG&A was $686MM - meaning that just the cost of the product and the sales/administrative overhead to sell that vehicle results in a $236MM loss.

      R&D, Interest Expenses, capital expenditures - those aren't even discussed at this point, we're already at a loss. It's not startup costs that are killing Tesla - it's too little gross margin on their product for their current SG&A level. Either they have to massively (and I mean by 50% or more) slash their sales and administrative costs, or they need to increase the price of their product. If Tesla completely SG&A (an impossibility, but we'll say they can for now), they still lose money based on R&D and interest. And we haven't even discussed capital expenditures.

      Fundamentally, their financials simply don't work. They need to either dramatically change everything about everything they do, or they have to increase the revenue (price) of each product by 40% or more. It doesn't work out any other way.

      One thing they could do is eliminate their own dealerships and let others run them. If you look at Ford, GM, BMW, etc. you'll see their SG&A is less than half that of Tesla's, per car. And it's predominantly because a huge chunk of the cost of sales, administration, support is covered by the dealers, who get a 10% margin on the vehicles sold. So the normal car companies "give" 10% of their margin to dealers, in exchange for taking on more than 60% of the SG&A costs. Tesla is trying to do it, so it's "saving" 10% of revenue and eating 230% of the SG&A than a normal car company should. Company car stores don't make sense - they are a financial death-blow, but Tesla won't change that, it's too much of their "mystique". But that one change there could well put them close to profitability...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    16. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      So, you couldn't manage to get to the second paragraph of the summary either?

    17. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So lynn, is it entrepreneurship that you hate? Because just about every tech company in the past fifty years has been in the position where their stock has a higher value than justified by revenues.

      ok, ok, your a Luddite on slashdot, no big surprise there (if, as you claim you are not shilling for shorts), it is more common than the gentle reader may imagine.

      FYI, Carvana is doing a great job of growing and profiting from eliminating the dealerships, maybe you should reconsider that

    18. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      ROFLMAO

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    19. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      yeah,... right. which car companies would that be.. short or selective memory?

      GM/Chrysler bail out - Final tally: Taxpayers auto bailout loss $9.3B - "The government said it recovered $70.42 billion of the $79.68 billion it gave to General Motors, Chrysler, Ally Financial, Chrysler Financial and automotive suppliers through the federal Auto Industry Financing Program. The program was part of the larger Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP." https://eu.usatoday.com/story/...

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    20. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      I also looked at those financials and completely agree. That said, I don't believe replacing their Apple Store equivalents with independent dealers fixes the problem. After all, dealerships don't work for free. The money eventually must come from somewhere, usually from the customer paying higher prices for their cars. Now if customers are already willing to pay more, then Tesla could just raise the prices themselves.

    21. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      so have you backed your analysis and put all your money into shorting them?

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    22. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by knorthern+knight · · Score: 1

      > In the case of all existing car manufacturers, the real reason is sunk
      > costs in internal combustion engine manufacturing. Tesla doesn't
      > have to worry about abandoning billions of dollars in existing property
      > plant and equipment like the legacy manufacturers do.

      Wrong...

      1) Many manufacturers produce hybrids. That's already half-way there to pure-electric.

      2) Manufacturers can produce disel and gasoline engines simultaneously, so it's not that difficult. And they are *SIGNIFICANTLY* different animals. Rather than designing new diesels from the ground up, GM cheated and tried to repurpose gasoline engines as diesel engines to save money in R&D and tooling 1978 to 1985. It was a fiasco. The right way to do it is to forget about the gasoline engine and design a diesel engine from square 1.

      > The Oldsmobile diesel subsequently gained a reputation for
      > unreliability and anemic performance that damaged the North
      > American passenger diesel market for the next 30 years.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      And one other "legacy component" for "existing car manufacturers" is the assembly lines and know-how to...

      a) crank out hundreds of thousands of vehicles per week

      b) assemble vehicles where the fit-and-finish isn't total shit.

      --

      I'm not repeating myself
      I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
    23. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is it so pathetic. God that is a pathetic response if you canâ(TM)t actually explain what your problem is.

    24. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So that his opion can be immediately dismissed by the Tesla faithful?

    25. Re: Also, if you don't give us $2500... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      To be perfectly honest, if you go out and google for news on Tesla, the people who are trashing it are in serious short positions.

      To be perfectly honest, if you went out in the street polling random people about Tesla, the majority of them probably don't care about Tesla. The vapor is apparent to a lot of the public.

  3. maybe buy tesla stock instead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    for every $1,000 of stock bought eight years ago, you'd have $14,000 today

    1. Re:maybe buy tesla stock instead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must not be old enough to remember those saying the exact same thing during the 2000 Dot Com boom and subsequent bust. Although back then it was eight months instead of years but the collapse will be just as quick this time. TSLA's stock valuation has no basis in reality.

    2. Re: maybe buy tesla stock instead? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      You're a funny guy but clearly electric sports sedans and mail-order dogfood with free shipping have few similarities.p *If shorting TSLA is so smart, why can't the shorts shill better??

    3. Re: maybe buy tesla stock instead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Consider options, rather than the stock itself?

      Use call options near the money. Far higher returns for the same stock, if you are convinced it is going up. Itâ(TM)s because you are trading the change in price, rather than the full price. Itâ(TM)s like starting with the current value as the zero point. You can make 200%, 300%, 400% returns, rather than say 10%, 20%, 50% returns. However, you risk everything if it goes and stays down, and there is also time decay to think about.

      I bought near Term TSLA calls a few days ago. The stock is up 2%, but the options I bought are up 8%.

      Something to consider if you look at trading TSLA, and are convinced it is going up, and are okay with the risk level.

  4. The shorts just sharted themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's all over but the crying, time to cover your positions, ladies

  5. Car Pact & NAFTA by Mikkeles · · Score: 1

    Assuming that the US/Canadian tariff fight doesn't screw all this up.

    --
    Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
    1. Re: Car Pact & NAFTA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't Tesla completely American made? It's the other companies that should be concerned for their American sales as they may start getting hit with tariffs. You're right about Canadian prices potentially getting higher though.

    2. Re:Car Pact & NAFTA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Canada isn't trying to harm the USA with its new tariffs... they are entirely reciprocal, and measured out dollar for dollar. They will be lifted when the USA lifts its illegal tariffs. If the USA wants Canada to remove its dairy tariff, then perhaps Trump should offer something as well. But instead, Trump decides to impose punative tariffs to effectively intimidate a country whose economy is about a tenth of the size into capitulating.

      And it's not like the USA was ever getting burned by its trade with Canada anyways. The US Trade Represenative web site itself affirms that there was over 600B in goods and services trade between the USA and Canada last year, and while Trump's claim of an 18B trade deficit with Canada can inded be found there, that figure only accounts for trade in goods. The USA also has a 26B services trade surplus with Canada, giving the USA a net 8B surplus despite Canada's dairy tariff. Dairy itself represents barely a tenth of one percent of the trade between the two countries, so it's not like Canada's tariff on dairy was hurting Americans anyways (actually because of the USA's overproduction on dairy, it was arguably keeping dairy prices lower for Americans than they otherwise might be).

    3. Re: Car Pact & NAFTA by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      American Assembled.

      Parts for the vehicle are manufactured everywhere.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    4. Re: Car Pact & NAFTA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Superspeederrob on Youtube just did a quick video on a Model 3 that was delivered in the past week or so. It's a piece of junk. Interior compartments don't stay closed, gaps on the panels don't match, QA problems everywhere. Does the front license plate holder really attach to the car with double-sided tape? The warranty repairs alone will bankrupt Tesla if this is what they're delivering to people.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3h1AjBRdI8

    5. Re: Car Pact & NAFTA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      offs, that entire video was somebody complaining that tesla would not replace a cracked window.... and tried to blame it on manufacturing and over-tightened bolts (um, windshields are not bolted on). You shorts are sounding desperate. Anyhow, production numbers will be finalized for the quarter soon, I have to wonder if they will leak before the August 1 call.

    6. Re:Car Pact & NAFTA by fluffernutter · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Furthermore, Trump calls the Canadian dairy tariff one-sided, yet he seems completely unwilling to acknowledge the fact that American farmers are subsidized as well. The difference is that Canadian dairy farmers are assisted by people actually buying their products and are weighted in a way to control production based on demand. American farmers are paid for by American tax dollars whether you consume dairy products or not.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    7. Re: Car Pact & NAFTA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Notice that I didn't mention anything about the windshield that may or may not have been a QA issue, but did mention the other things I saw as a problem? Why did you ignore those?

    8. Re:Car Pact & NAFTA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Additionally, the US subsidies/incentives given to American dairy farmers are larger than the entire dairy industry of Canada. You produce more dairy in Wisconsin than our entire country produces.

      In this case, your agricultural incentives are backwards. Instead of managing supply, you pay farmers to overproduce.

    9. Re: Car Pact & NAFTA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if you actually watch the video, he repeatedly focuses on the windshield at the QA issue. There was no mention of gaps in panels and there was no complain that the cubby door was broken he was just flipping it back and forth. Did you notice that the computer was telling to to stop messing with it? He was probably just flipping it before the automatic latch was catching.

      As far as the 10 minutes of droning on about the windshield goes... he is trying to claim that an obviously indented and star-cracked windshield was somehow a manufacturing defect, when is looks more like somebody smacked it with their fist. He doubles-down on stupid by claiming that the owner is going to have to shell out the money for it when (obviously) he would have full coverage on a new car (or would have noticed an obvious defect when he took possession of the car.

      And the OMG, tape on the license place is an obvious way to damped noise.

      So yeah, a bunch of snarky bs that you are trying to puff up even further

    10. Re:Car Pact & NAFTA by Jodka · · Score: 1

      ...American farmers are paid for by American tax dollars whether you consume dairy products or not.

      This is why we have a 1.39 billion pound cheese surplus.

      --
      Ceci n'est pas une signature.
    11. Re: Car Pact & NAFTA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you don't know how insurance works, then I'm inclined to ignore the rest of your post.

      You are clueless.

  6. I can't wait! by 110010001000 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I can't wait to get my $80k Model 3 that has been made in a tent in order to make some arbitrary 5000 cars a week production number that Musk came up with. Oh, and they didn't make those numbers, hence the "announcement". Musk is the best at distracting everyone.

    1. Re:I can't wait! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I can't believe that they're making these cars in a nontraditional factory building. The cars will be missing the customary essence of concrete and brick that permeate other vehicle assembly lines and instill the vehicles with that "new car stoniness" that makes them more solid and impact-resistant.

    2. Re:I can't wait! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck off you boring troll.

    3. Re: I can't wait! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah nothing like good old unconditioned air to build car in!!! What's a joke

    4. Re:I can't wait! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you give a crap if the car is made in a steel-truss bunker, a tin shed, or a yak-skin yurt as long as the body panels line up, it works the way it's supposed to, and it's painted in a proper down-draft paint booth?

      What the hell difference does it make if the quality is the same?

    5. Re:I can't wait! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There can be an issue with dirt and insects being introduced during assembly. The quality issues being reported are almost exactly what was happening with Deloreans right before they went under: rushing cars out the door to meet production numbers while the founder had to resort to selling cocaine to make payroll. Those last line cars were pieces of junk too.

    6. Re:I can't wait! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the quality was the same then why don't established manufacturers with decades of assembly line experience use much cheaper open-air tent facilities with no climate or other environmental controls for their finishing processes? Because the quality cannot possibly be the same.

    7. Re: I can't wait! by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      ...in a tent

      They're not fabbing semiconductors, shortstuff... and anyway, I can assure you that your $80K Model3 will likely spank an RS6 or an M5 but hell, I don't need to tell you that; anyone can tell that you're quite the car enthusiast.

    8. Re: I can't wait! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Settled your short yet?

    9. Re:I can't wait! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They might want the facility to survive a severe storm too.

    10. Re: I can't wait! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prove him wrong. He stated an example of why this could go bad.

      You are mad you don't have a car yet. We understand, 3 more years you will have your shitty 35k Tesla. Keep on waiting.

    11. Re: I can't wait! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No duh, electric cars have more torque. Put them up against gas vs gas or electric vs electric. You can't compare the two.

    12. Re: I can't wait! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're mistaken; nobody has to prove an unsubstantiated claim wrong, because there's nothing to do, it's the default. Provide evidence or settle your short.

    13. Re:I can't wait! by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      perhaps you need to read about the actual "tent" and see how its made instead of thinking of the tent you use during your camping weekend in your backyard

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
  7. Getting mine Monday! by Idou · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For those of you debating whether to order now and splurge on the long range model, waiting for the 35K model likely means you will not get the full tax credit. The impact of this may be more than you think. Not only do you get to take the tax credit for this year when you buy now, but if you wait until the tax credit expires to sell your (now used) car, the resale value should increase by close to the tax credit amount. So it really does make sense to buy now (35K + 15K = long range Model 3 now).

    Of course, now that they are opening orders to everyone. . . you probably want to closely look into the probability of getting your car in time to take advantage of the full tax credit. . .

    --
    Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
    1. Re:Getting mine Monday! by 110010001000 · · Score: 0

      As a bonus, it was quickly made in a tent. But you get your tax credit!

    2. Re:Getting mine Monday! by Idou · · Score: 2

      I guess there is a first for everything. . . "I can’t say for sure, but I would guess it’s currently the only vehicle assembly for a high volume car going on under a tent right now,"

      The thing is, there are estimates that the difference in moving parts are 20 vs 10,000!!! Perhaps once EVs take over, all cars will be assembled in tents?

      --
      Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
    3. Re:Getting mine Monday! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Going to post this as AC because I'm sure the haters will be out in full force. I got mine a few weeks ago and it was better than I expected. For context, I have a 2016 Porsche 981 GTS (everybody please put down your pitchforks) so my standards are set pretty high. The model 3 is totally worth the wait and is definitely worth the money. I am pretty sure that the Model 3 can trash the 981 at just about any metric and in fact a slightly modified Model 3 just ate a 981 race-ready Boxster at a time track event and won the event overall. It is 2/3 the price of the Porsche fully-loaded too!

      It is a totally unassuming car but it is brilliantly designed. So much so that I'm considering getting rid of the Porsche as there is just no reason to own it. It feels like a dinosaur when I get in it now.

      The parking garage at my condo has free regular 110v plugs, and they don't mind us charging cars with them, so to date I have paid absolutely nothing for "fuel". At 110v it would take two and a half days to charge it from empty (it charges at a rate of about 7km/hr at 110v and the 80% range is about 450km), but I just plug it in when I get home and it is ready for me the next time I want to use it. On average I just don't drive more than 7km/hr/day so it works out. Of course there are many other charging options a lot of them free (my local airport parking has free EV charging and you can leave your car there and plugged in the entire time you are away). The parking garages in this area also have free EV charging.

      The seats are great. The interior is really nice - the glass roof is beautiful! I love the minimalist dash. I would give the touchscreen controls a 7/10. They could do a lot to improve that and they are slowly making some positive changes to it. Very usable though. The handling is adjustable and I find it very responsive. It is a fun car to drive. I have found no fit and finish problems despite the reports - the body panels all line up and the tolerances are great and the inside trim is quiet. No squeaks or rattles. The car is so quiet that you do notice tire noise when you are driving.

      I wrote to Tesla asking them when the whole LTE music streaming and free map updates and live traffic was going to end and they were going to start charging me, and they said "Never. Enjoy!" Turns out that this offer expires for people who get their cars after July 1st. Most of it will still be free, but they will offer a premium level after some period of time that you will have to pay for that will give you music streaming and traffic. Updates will be done over wifi unless they are a safety issue in which case they will eat the cost of the LTE update.

      I'm rambling probably. Enjoy your car in good health! It really feels like it is the next generation of the automobile.

    4. Re: Getting mine Monday! by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      They will start charging you after the bankruptcy

    5. Re:Getting mine Monday! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rei is that you????

    6. Re:Getting mine Monday! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keep shorting Tesla, dude. Way to go!

      Wall Street totally base their decisions on what some losers have to say on an obscure tech forum.

    7. Re:Getting mine Monday! by Rei · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you had actually been paying attention to me you'd know I live in Europe, and the Eurospec Model 3s aren't yet available, so how would that be me?

      --
      Why must all aquatic villains play the organ?
    8. Re:Getting mine Monday! by Idou · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Thanks, I enjoyed your post. You hit many good points, but I am compelled to add one more: purchase experience. . .

      I do not think I will ever be able to get near a car dealership again after experiencing how buying a car should be. . .

      --
      Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
    9. Re: Getting mine Monday! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That doesn't take away from the fact that a lack of climate and environment control can have serious ramifications on the car manufacturing process.
      And making all cars in tents, really? You dont mind having a car filled with dust, potentially impacting reliability? In arizona, the environment can be killer on the paint job especially when dust storms roll around. I wouldn't want that in my car.

    10. Re:Getting mine Monday! by whoever57 · · Score: 2

      Because the GP used kilometers. Not really a USian kind of thing, is it?

      I know lots of USians might not like to admit it, but there is at least one North American country that uses metric measurements. It's also known that Tesla is delivering Model 3s there: Canada.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    11. Re:Getting mine Monday! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you can't say you have a 981 AND have high standards in the one sentence lol, they completely contradict each other.

    12. Re:Getting mine Monday! by Wdomburg · · Score: 1

      The tax credit is non-refundable. It is unlikely people waiting for the budget model have a large enough tax bill to get the full credit anyway. Even then, with no promise on delivery day they may not get it anyway.

      And the idea that the value of the used vehicle will go up by the full value of the credit is laughably optimistic.

    13. Re: Getting mine Monday! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Out of curiosity, how many shares are you short on them?

      You obviously have an axe to grind or you wouldn't post on them every, fucking, story it comes up. Slashdot has few enough people now that that shit is noticeable.

      What will you do when the margin call comes? I hope you realize that they will close your account out and bill you the balance. Might want to look into bankruptcy law now, since your don't seem to be the type that will give up before it is too late.

    14. Re: Getting mine Monday! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rei always uses retard units, never metric, despite claiming to live in Europe.

    15. Re:Getting mine Monday! by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Going to post this as AC because I'm sure the haters will be out in full force.

      It's worth noting that there are a few haters here on Slashdot, but the people who actually like the car and have modpoints far outnumber the haters. Don't be afraid to be proud of your car.

    16. Re: Getting mine Monday! by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      That doesn't take away from the fact that a lack of climate and environment control can have serious ramifications on the car manufacturing process.

      These "tents" don't have a lack of climate control (in a building, climate and environment are the same thing, in this context.)

      In arizona, the environment can be killer on the paint job especially when dust storms roll around. I wouldn't want that in my car.

      That's why they're doing it inside, and not outside. There's nothing special or magical about the door seals on a rigid building that makes them keep dust out better; flexible buildings tend to be rigid around the doorways anyway.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    17. Re:Getting mine Monday! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A co-worker of mine just got his 3 about a month ago. Since then, he's been an S loner for about a week of that time. He's complained quite a lot about the 3.

      Same token, another guy I know has an X. He loves playing with tech toys, which is why he got it. He's been submitting bug reports like crazy, but has said Tesla isn't at all responsive to problems.

      I don't doubt that there are people out there with good vehicles and love them, but the experience isn't universal. From talking to someone who's actually been in the plant, I'm not at all surprised. Everything I heard lead me to expect a highly variable quality from their manufacturing.

    18. Re:Getting mine Monday! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Going to post this as AC because I'm sure the haters will be out in full force. I got mine a few weeks ago and it was better than I expected. For context, I have a 2016 Porsche 981 GTS

      A 2015 Porsche 981 GTS had a base price of over $75k. I'm jealous - would love to have a car like that as well as the Tesla. Since you can afford such nice toys, why don't you do the right thing and not claim the tax credit? Think of the EBT cards that would fund and the Progressive cred you would receive. You might even get a pat on the back by Libertarians.

    19. Re: Getting mine Monday! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keep giving money to Tesla bro, they will be profitable any day now.

      Any day now you'll get your model3. It's only been 2 years, what's another 3 years?

      All heil musk.

    20. Re: Getting mine Monday! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? Slapping down a down payment and then waiting 2 years is a "buying experience" you want?

      LOL fucking shills man.

    21. Re: Getting mine Monday! by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      you should really do a little research before falling onto the trap of making posts form ignorance

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    22. Re: Getting mine Monday! by samwichse · · Score: 1

      Everything about this post is perfectly accurate. Amazing how gloriously descriptive you were in such a short sentence.

      Not sarcasm, this was a dense, informative, funny post in a single line.

    23. Re: Getting mine Monday! by samwichse · · Score: 1

      Or maybe not feeling like a middleman is trying to milk every penny they can out of you.

      You go to the website, choose the model you want (the S and X have been available for a while, the 3 is still working through the deposit holders), pick your color, interior, wheels, option packages, and the price is right there.

      Order, and there you go, that's what you pay. Why we're still paying dealers to make the process actively uncomfortable, I have no idea. Even taking my wife's old Fit in for an ECU update, they sent me through a "specialist" to try and get me to upsell me to a new car.

      Fuck those guys.

    24. Re: Getting mine Monday! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks!

  8. great. The trolls will be coming here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anything to do with musk attracts those that are attached to the kock bros pants and has them FUDing all over here.

  9. why do you claim that? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    Currently, Tesla stock is still going down.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:why do you claim that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think they saw the interior.

      Hope that monitor doesn't go out!

    2. Re: why do you claim that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Going down"... Are you retarded?

      I've made 35% in two weeks. I sold half and bought a new car, and 3000 sq ft of hardwood.

      Meanwhile, shorts are begging their wives to not leave them, and trying to figure out how to get another mortgage.

    3. Re: why do you claim that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah personally I bought Tsla long in my Roth Ira and made like $15k in 3 weeks. Intended to hold it long term but more than that is just being greedy.

    4. Re:why do you claim that? by Dragonslicer · · Score: 2

      Only for narrow definitions of "currently". Yes, it's lower than it was yesterday, but it's higher than it was at the beginning of the week. Yes, it's lower than it was when it reached a brief peak a few weeks ago, but it's higher than it has been for most of the past year.

    5. Re: why do you claim that? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      actually, I differ with you that it is being greedy. You really should hold it longer.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    6. Re:why do you claim that? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      The shorters shit 2 weeks ago, not this week. The fact is, that Musk has said too much and the stock is very likely at a local peak for about 6 months. BUT, come another 6-12 months, I think that we will see 400-500 / share. The fact is, that they are getting better and better at their production and more importantly, figuring out how to speed this up by changing car and line designs.
      AND if we are lucky, Musk will NOT introduce MY until 1-2 new GFs are set up and new lines are set up for MY. IOW, he really needs to be quiet about this and then introduce it once the production line is moving. There will be PLENTY of buyers.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    7. Re:why do you claim that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It really depends on what the numbers are for Q2, which ends this weekend and is reported on August 1. There will be no smooth, planned exit for he shorts if the news is good, or even not really bad.

      Remaining silent while shorts are taking public shots at you would do nothing to help with gaining credibility for the company. He wants people to feel confidant to buy the vehicles, stock and bonds.

    8. Re: why do you claim that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL I swear, I don't know who is worse, the short Tesla stock shills or the Tesla does nothing wrong shills.

  10. This will give us new analytics on retention by AvitarX · · Score: 0

    We will be able to get a loose estimate on how accurate Tesla's forcasts are based on reports of early or late delivery.

    Right now, they have a loose estimate of what percentage of people will convert to purchasing, they will use this estimate to determine your delivery window.

    If conversions are low, cars will come early, if conversions are high, they will come late.

    This allows them to put good spin on 2 different bad scenerios

    1) Conversions are low
    spin "our manufacturing is satisfying back orders faster than anticipated, thank you team for the hard work"

    2) Production lags
    spin "our conversion rate is so high, we have to delay some shipping estimates."

    --
    Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
  11. Humbug... by Freischutz · · Score: 1, Interesting

    For people who put down a $1,000 deposit for a Tesla Model 3 as long as two years ago, the big day has arrived.

    Not to dump on Tesla's, they are nice cars, but waiting two years for a car? You have to be a major fanboy to do that ... and people around here call Apple users all kinds of ugly names for queueing in front of a shop for a mobile phone 24hrs before release day.

    1. Re:Humbug... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You can get a Bolt right now for a bit more than $35k. And you still get the tax credit. And a fully loaded Bolt can be used with comma.ai, the open source autopilot. I don't get why anybody is willing to wait that long.

    2. Re:Humbug... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tesla is a religion. It's part of the cult of personality around Musk.

      When there is this much hype around a company and businessman, it never ends well - or at least I have never seen it end well in 40 years.

      Telsa's stock is flying so high for no fundamental reason other than excitement. I mean really, valuing it as much as Ford or GM? The auto market is only so big and the Tesla True Believers seem to think that Tesla will crush every other auto company and they'll just take it - like they won't have their own EVs or when they do, no one will buy them because Tesla is so awesome.

      In other words, the expectations are set sooooo high for Tesla, there is no possible way they could be met. I don't think the fanboys understand the realities of the automotive business. And seeing how the fanboys say things about Tesla that Musk NEVER said, the delusion is all too real. (The most delusional is "Tesla isn't losing money.")

      And my concern, with Tesla's horrible financial state - it's on the edge of a cliff with one foot hanging over - I'd be afraid that my $2,500 would never be recovered and I'd never get car.

      The only thing keeping Tesla operating over the last 8 years is the regular cash infusions that Musk is able to raise from his hype machine. But he can't do that forever and if tries dipping into the well again, we'll see a huge move down in stock price.

      Humbug indeed.

    3. Re:Humbug... by Rei · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's also an econobox that can't supercharge.

      People want a car, not a hair shirt. Don't get me wrong, Bolt is fine for a subset of users. But don't pretend that it's a replacement for the Model 3.

      --
      Why must all aquatic villains play the organ?
    4. Re:Humbug... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree although I would never short them - you never know how long the hype will continue. Nice cars, but not that nice.

    5. Re:Humbug... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      At least you aren't in a RHD country. I'd estimate 2021 before you can even order one.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:Humbug... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I know that some people have waited two years, but that was because they were not building them yet. I placed my order last August and picked it up earlier this month. Yes, a 10-month wait isn't great either but there was a lot of pent-up demand. I waited 5 months for my Porsche and they had been building that model for 4 years before I ordered it.

      If you ordered a Model 3 today I don't think you would wait more than six months for it. Still not the instant gratification we are all used to, but when you put it in the context of a car that is almost entirely aluminum with almost zero maintenance, an 8-year warranty on the battery, and very very low operating costs it is worth the wait (IMHO). I'm a little worried that I'm going to get really sick of the vehicle before I can justify getting rid of it for something else. The maintenance is so low on these things that Tesla just has maintenance people driving around in vans to come and "fix" your car rather than have you drive to a shop. Obviously, if there is a catastrophic failure you're going to have to get towed to a shop, but most things (80%) can be done in your driveway.

      I wouldn't classify myself as a fanboy, but I know what you mean and they are certainly out there. Everybody wants to think that they are brilliant for buying whatever it is they blew their money on (there is a name for that but it escapes me right now).

      Time will tell, but it just seems to me at this stage that a Model 3 is a much better investment in terms of total cost of ownership than, say a 3 series BMW or another quasi-luxury sedan. I think it would still be hard for Tesla to compete with the value of a Japanese sedan like a Camry or something by Hyundai. I think this is why you see the German manufacturers tripping over themselves to electrify their fleet while the Japanese manufacturers are sticking with hybrid tech for now and don't seem in as much of a hurry.

      Bottom line: Tesla's current "cheap" and cheerful model is more of a threat to the mid-market segment than the actual "cheap and cheerful" segment. We'll see what happens when the lower-range model comes out, but I think they are going to struggle against something like a Camry.

    7. Re:Humbug... by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      Chevy Bolt: the long-range EV for people who don't want to do long drives.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    8. Re:Humbug... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mostly because the Bolt is made to get emissions credits for GM, thus they are content with making a barely adequate car. Which is also why you constantly see people bleating on about how GM could make as many as they choose to, they just choose not to.

      And what informs that decision? Small potential market? Small margins?

    9. Re:Humbug... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Has anyone ever said that Tesla isn't losing money? Citation needed, or you just kicked the shit out of a big fat straw man.

      The claim that a lot of people make is that they have positive profit margins on vehicles sold, which is true. Tesla, overall, posts losses due to spending more capital in expansion then revenue coming in, but it's different classifications of money that the detractors tend to not understand, or willfully stay ignorant of.

      As it turns out, the Generally Accepted Accounting Principles are a real thing, and actually define many of these terms explicitly.

    10. Re:Humbug... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The last thing a Model 3 should be considered as is an investment. The software will be obsolete in 5 years and good luck trying to restore one in 10 without Tesla's approval (if they are still in business). There won't be aftermarket parts, nothing on it is serviceable except by the factory,etc. In a very short time a replacement battery will cost more than the entire vehicle. There will be no long-term resale value once the fashion fad wears off.

    11. Re:Humbug... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      "Econobox" I can drive today, or a 6+ month wait for a car I can drive later... Hmmm, decisions decisions!

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    12. Re:Humbug... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I’ll take a Chevy econobox over a Tesla shitbox any week day and twice on weekends.

    13. Re: Humbug... by Type44Q · · Score: 0

      hair shirtWe use car metaphors for computers; why not bizarre-clothing metaphors for cars? Hmm, I wonder what kind of cars Mormon magic underwear or ass-less chaps would be...

    14. Re:Humbug... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      "Econobox" I can drive today, or a 6+ month wait for a car I can drive later... Hmmm, decisions decisions!

      False dichotomies, you mean. Lease the econobox today, while waiting for the real car.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    15. Re:Humbug... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Either way - it's a tangible product today in exchange (maybe temporarily) for a promise at a time to be named later. It's false to even claim the Model 3 base vehicle is better than the Bolt - given there are exactly zero base Model 3's available.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    16. Re: Humbug... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Use google you fucking idiot. Tesla releases their numbers. People broke them down. And guess what? They aren't making a profit.

      If you think this is a strawman then I don't even know what else to tell you. It's a proven fact that Tesla is losing money.

    17. Re: Humbug... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #facts.

    18. Re:Humbug... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It's false to even claim the Model 3 base vehicle is better than the Bolt - given there are exactly zero base Model 3's available.

      No. No it isn't. Those are separate issues.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    19. Re: Humbug... by Rei · · Score: 1

      "Hair shirt" is a common saying, getting 1 1/2 million hits on Google. It dates back to the use by early Christians of uncomfortable shirts made from human or animal hair as a penance. In modern parliance, it means punishing yourself by accepting discomfort or inconvenience in order to achieve some end.

      --
      Why must all aquatic villains play the organ?
    20. Re:Humbug... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      So - can you buy that base Model 3 today? If not - you're simply talking about an imaginary vehicle versus a tangible vehicle.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    21. Re:Humbug... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      So - can you buy that base Model 3 today? If not - you're simply talking about an imaginary vehicle versus a tangible vehicle.

      Tangible doesn't mean "available for sale". Try again, I guess, though since you're trying to make a fallacious point you could save us all some trouble by just STFUing.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    22. Re:Humbug... by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      No, tangible was right. Can you even touch a base Model 3, let alone buy one? If not - it's a fantasy, something that doesn't exist. Which it doesn't.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    23. Re: Humbug... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spot the short is too easy, bored now.

    24. Re:Humbug... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      No, tangible was right. Can you even touch a base Model 3, let alone buy one? If not - it's a fantasy, something that doesn't exist. Which it doesn't.

      It's a fantasy which will become reality before the fantasy of you being realistic.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    25. Re:Humbug... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think this is why you see the German manufacturers tripping over themselves to electrify their fleet while the Japanese manufacturers are sticking with hybrid tech for now and don't seem in as much of a hurry.

      You actually think this is a more likely explanation than CO2 fleet average targets set by the EU that will result in hefty fines without electrification of a significant fraction of sales?

  12. Did Ars misunderstand? by whoever57 · · Score: 2

    That isn't a new requirement -- a Tesla spokeswoman told Ars that the company has long asked customers to pay a $2,500 deposit when they order other Tesla models.

    Model 3 buyers have always (*) been required to pay a $2,500 deposit when ordering. "other" isn't appropriate here. Is that a mistake by the Tesla spokesperson or by Ars?

    * It's possible that there were special rules for "family and friends (and employees)" who ordered very early Model 3s.

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    1. Re:Did Ars misunderstand? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Sorry, you must be off.. it was $1000 (10000 NOK here) and I decided waiting years for a promised car was insane and cancelled. And I did get 10000 NOK back, maybe they earned a few bucks on interest but it wasn't much.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:Did Ars misunderstand? by whoever57 · · Score: 2

      Sorry, you must be off.. it was $1000

      I just love it when I am "corrected" by someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. Hint: I actually bought a Model 3, so I know this better than you.

      Here's how it worked:
      Reservation deposit: $1000.
      Then, you get your invitation to configure and order a Model 3. To turn this configuration into an actual order, you have to put down an additional $2,500 deposit. Both the $1,000 and the $2,500 are credited against the purchase price of the car. Some time after ordering, Tesla will tell you what your delivery date and location is.

      All that has happened now is that the invitations have gone out to all reservation holders and the lead times for delivery may have increased. There is no new payment required.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    3. Re:Did Ars misunderstand? by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      That isn't a new requirement -- a Tesla spokeswoman told Ars that the company has long asked customers to pay a $2,500 deposit when they order other Tesla models.

      Model 3 buyers have always (*) been required to pay a $2,500 deposit when ordering. "other" isn't appropriate here. Is that a mistake by the Tesla spokesperson or by Ars?

      You assume those are two different people...

    4. Re: Did Ars misunderstand? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read his post. He wasn't wrong. The deposit was 1k. Whether you went ahead and slapped down another 2500k was up to you if you really wanted the car. It's like a double opt in.

      Stop being a pretentious prick.

  13. But where will you fix it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well the answer to that question is easy, you'll fix it at a Tesla garage, because Tesla works incredibly hard to make sure nobody else can fix their cars.

    In other words, expect these cars to be worth about nothing on the used market once Tesla moves on to other business.

    1. Re:But where will you fix it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's worse than that. When the backlight on the flatscreen goes out the car can't be driven. Backlights go out on panels all the time. In a few years the battery capacity will have diminished significantly and it will cost more to replace the battery than the car will be worth on the resale market.

    2. Re:But where will you fix it? by divide+overflow · · Score: 1

      It's worse than that. When the backlight on the flatscreen goes out the car can't be driven. Backlights go out on panels all the time. In a few years the battery capacity will have diminished significantly and it will cost more to replace the battery than the car will be worth on the resale market.

      1. Display panel backlights are almost certainly LED and will probably last longer than the batteries.
      2. Those lithium cells in Tesla cars have been keeping charge capacity *significantly* longer than originally estimated.

    3. Re:But where will you fix it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only can the LEDS fade and/or fail outright, the driver circuitry and ribbon cable/connectors can also fail rendering the screen useless. I've had to replace 3 personal cell phones in my life due to backlight failure. In a shop with about 300 desktop workstations with flat-panel monitors I keep them in service until they become unreadable or fail, which is usually about 5 years. Some longer, many much sooner. I've even seen similar digital LED panels in Ferrari and Lamborghini exotics fail in the same way, requiring replacement of the screen. The difference with those is that most exotics can still be driven safely with its analog gauges when one of their digital panels goes out - at least to make it to the dealership. From what I've seen the Model 3 is completely dependent on that screen and cannot.

      As for the batteries there is already a bustling resale market for Model 3 batteries from the factory or removed from salvage vehicles at auction. If the batteries were great there wouldn't be such a demand already considering how few Model 3's have been produced. Those batteries are the only value in salvage Model 3's by the way

    4. Re:But where will you fix it? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The difference with those is that most exotics can still be driven safely with its analog gauges when one of their digital panels goes out - at least to make it to the dealership. From what I've seen the Model 3 is completely dependent on that screen and cannot.

      Or you use your phone as a GPS speedometer. What year is it? Display some adaptability.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:But where will you fix it? by toddestan · · Score: 1

      The thing with the Model 3 is that the touchscreen is the interface to the entire car. It would be like trying to use a smartphone with the screen out. Granted, it still has pedals and a steering wheel. I've never driven one so maybe you can turn it on and get it to go forward and reverse without the touchscreen. But given you need the touchscreen to do things like engage the wipers and turn on the defroster, if the screen goes out it's something that will need to be fixed.

  14. I just want by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    a $10,000 plug-in electric truck with a winch, designed for the mountains, with a spare battery pack in the toolbox of the bed.

    And you can buy them in Canada, so don't tell me they're not available.

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    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:I just want by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hope you bought your Snickers in bulk, 'cuz you're gonna be in for a loooong wait.

    2. Re:I just want by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Hope you bought your Snickers in bulk, 'cuz you're gonna be in for a loooong wait.

      You spelled Smarties wrong.

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      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  15. FUD by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

    I've worked with over 100 different LED displays of various sizes and configurations over the last 10 years, and not a single one has had a backlight fail.

    Also, [citation needed] for the battery pack FUD. There are many Tesla Model S vehicles on the road today, which have been on the road for over 5 years. Where are the stories about massively expensive battery replacements? It's not like every single Tesla story ever written doesn't get posted everywhere, so if this was happening, please link to it, or get out of here with your baseless FUD.

    --
    Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    1. Re: FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/tesla-model-s-85kw-battery-replacement-cost

      Ask and you shall receive bub. From what a gathered, a model S battery would cost between 12k-25k. So not quite as expensive as the car, but still a huge price tag for something that WILL die.

  16. POS by rojash · · Score: 1

    Read my earlier posts...I had booked this...impressed w their site video...went on a test drive on the X...promptly canceled

    1. Re:POS by rojash · · Score: 1

      AND sold off my shares

  17. Creative way to raise cash for Tesla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you have been following Tesla in the Wall Street Journal, you know that Tesla has been burning cash at a rapid rate (Their biggest expenditure is investing money in their model 3 production lines). At this point, they would have a hard time raising additional money via stock/bond market (bonds are rated junk, their stock is widely shorted). Receiving an extra $2,500 from customers is a very creative way to get some extra cash (probably as much as $500 million). This would give them some cushion to increase their car production rate enough to get some additional stock/bond money. I wonder if Warren Buffet would ever consider investing some money in Tesla. Tesla did decrease their cash burn rate by laying off employees. If Tesla runs out of cash, they will probably be sold to someone like Toyota.

    1. Re: Creative way to raise cash for Tesla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would someone like Toyota be interested? There would be very little if anything of value.

    2. Re: Creative way to raise cash for Tesla by toddestan · · Score: 1

      If anything, the Korean car makers might be interested. They've been trying and failing to establish a luxury brand for some time now - the Tesla brand would be perfect (Toyota already has Lexus). They also seem to be a bit late to the electric car game, so they could use the tech a lot more than Toyota needs it.

  18. Next time go with your gut. He is indeed ignorant. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Next time go with your gut. He is indeed ignorant.

  19. Uh.... by chaboud · · Score: 1

    Does anyone else think that this seems like a desperate attempt to raise more cash with little indication of actual manufacturing rate and quality improvements?

  20. The big day did indeed arrive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I configured and finalized my own reservation and in 3 to 5 months my shiny black model 3 will be ready.

    I can't wait, it's gonna be awesome!