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How Smart TVs in Millions of US Homes Track More Than What's on Tonight (nytimes.com)
The growing concern over online data and user privacy has been focused on tech giants like Facebook and devices like smartphones. But people's data is also increasingly being vacuumed right out of their living rooms via their televisions, sometimes without their knowledge. From a report: In recent years, data companies have harnessed new technology to immediately identify what people are watching on internet-connected TVs, then using that information to send targeted advertisements to other devices in their homes. Marketers, forever hungry to get their products in front of the people most likely to buy them, have eagerly embraced such practices. But the companies watching what people watch have also faced scrutiny from regulators and privacy advocates over how transparent they are being with users.
Samba TV is one of the bigger companies that track viewer information to make personalized show recommendations. The company said it collected viewing data from 13.5 million smart TVs in the United States, and it has raised $40 million in venture funding from investors including Time Warner, the cable operator Liberty Global and the billionaire Mark Cuban. Samba TV has struck deals with roughly a dozen TV brands -- including Sony, Sharp, TCL and Philips -- to place its software on certain sets. When people set up their TVs, a screen urges them to enable a service called Samba Interactive TV, saying it recommends shows and provides special offers "by cleverly recognizing onscreen content." But the screen, which contains the enable button, does not detail how much information Samba TV collects to make those recommendations.... Once enabled, Samba TV can track nearly everything that appears on the TV on a second-by-second basis, essentially reading pixels to identify network shows and ads, as well as programs on Netflix and HBO and even video games played on the TV.
Samba TV is one of the bigger companies that track viewer information to make personalized show recommendations. The company said it collected viewing data from 13.5 million smart TVs in the United States, and it has raised $40 million in venture funding from investors including Time Warner, the cable operator Liberty Global and the billionaire Mark Cuban. Samba TV has struck deals with roughly a dozen TV brands -- including Sony, Sharp, TCL and Philips -- to place its software on certain sets. When people set up their TVs, a screen urges them to enable a service called Samba Interactive TV, saying it recommends shows and provides special offers "by cleverly recognizing onscreen content." But the screen, which contains the enable button, does not detail how much information Samba TV collects to make those recommendations.... Once enabled, Samba TV can track nearly everything that appears on the TV on a second-by-second basis, essentially reading pixels to identify network shows and ads, as well as programs on Netflix and HBO and even video games played on the TV.
If it can suggest to me some shows that I will enjoy and would otherwise have missed, and it doesn't cost me any money, then I'm all for it. And conversely it keeps a lot of garbage off the air by letting them know what I don't watch. I feel this is information that really can't hurt me. I don't see them querying my TV to see what I was watching on the evening my mother in law was suspiciously murdered or anything.
How many times do we need to repeat this story?
1) X is put into person's home/pocket.
2) X asks for your email address and phone number then starts to track every movement and button press.
3) People act all surprised!
Film at 11.
No sig today...
your cable box reports all kinds of info as well about what you are viewing.
Bring media and more trusted networked devices to your display.
Never allow your TV to report back your media use habits.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Thankfully I use APK's Hosts File Engine For Smart TVs, so there no chance of tracking me.
OMG, cover the TV in tinfoil
How many times do we need to repeat this story?
One more time as always.
Smart TVs tracking you and invading your privacy!
That's scandalous... that's why I only use an Amazon Firestick and control it with my Amazon Alexa. This way I can't be tracked. Nothing I do will be uploaded!
I'll make a post to Facebook recommending all my followers there to do the same.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
" on internet-connected TVs "
Disconnect said device from the Internet. Problem solved via a simple solution.
or
Allow the connection, identify telemetry addresses and block those at the router. Problem solved via slightly more complex solution.
The former is easier than the latter.
This really applies to EVERYTHING you connect to the Internet / Network. Assume it's hostile or a potentially leaky device and treat it as such.
" Trust, but verify " as the saying goes.
You can still buy something new, snip the WiFi antenna, and just use HDMI inputs.
Have you tried buying an unsmart TV in the US recently? Moreover, even if you have a home router and have access and know how to set up its routing tables, how do you know what IP address(es) your new 56 inch Spycoware TV is using? And if it's streaming, material you can't just block the miserable thing no matter how appealing the idea. I suspect the same is true in the rest of the world as well.
My question is who is actually paying for the vast amount of almost certainly worthless data they are collecting, and why? Is there any chance they will quit paying and eventually cause this nonsense to fade away?
You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
What about just not allowing it to connect to your router? i.e. block the MAC Address?
My Sony TV is not connected to the internet. It is connected to FreeSat (UK) which gives me around 100 free to air TV channels (no monthly payments) and also a Humax Freesat PVR (via HDMI).
Any information that the TV has about my viewing habits is going nowhere. My router firewall is configure to block any requests from the TV's MAC address.
So that explains the ads I see after having left our house in the care of a house sitter for two weeks. Man, I knew that last guy was a freak.
I had a solution: I stopped watching TV in the mid 1980s. Life much better. What I might want to see I CAN see on the internet. YES, I know about privacy issues there.
Have you tried buying an unsmart TV in the US recently? Moreover, even if you have a home router and have access and know how to set up its routing tables, how do you know what IP address(es) your new 56 inch Spycoware TV is using?
I look at the DHCP reservations and figure out its MAC, then block that. I have yet to hear of one of these devices doing MAC randomization.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Are you actually asking questions or are you trolling? No you can't really get dumb TVs over a certain size anymore. But connecting them to the Internet requires you to set them up that way. If you are like many people, you simply do not set them up. If you are paranoid, you can turn off connection on your TV. If you are ultra paranoid, you can block your TV from connecting to your home router.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
They're getting sneaky though - I've seen TVs that require a wifi connection to sync with the remote control. Not clear on whether it was actually a wifi remote, or just a hoop to make consumers jump through to get that wifi connection established in the first place, but given the relative costs of IR versus wifi, it's really hard to interpret that as anything but a way to coerce cooperation with surveillance. Wouldn't be so bad if you could use the TV without the remote, but there's usually a whole lot of features not accessible except via remote.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
I disagree that the data is "almost certainly worthless" - it's data on your habits and preferences, which is valuable to advertisers and content producers.
If the TV uses your own internet connection, then the data it collects can plausibly be associated with your internet browsing habits since it's the same IP/account. Once that connection is made your entire life is pretty much laid bare... who you are, where you live, your gender, age, income, education, credit rating, purchasing habits, employment history, who your friends are, etc etc.
=Smidge=
your cable box reports all kinds of info as well about what you are viewing.
Yeah, but I make sure I'm always watching stuff I don't like. So the joke's on them.
what do you have an 22G cap on your LTE cell link?
Can you give it a WiFi network with no Internet?
Yet another "smart device" who's real purpose it to monitor and monetize the masses. "Smart Devices" are not for consumers - their for corporations.
I concur. The last TV I bought had no non-smart models in that price and size range. So I bought a "smart" one, and hooked it up to power and two HDMI cables. One to the cable box, and one to the streaming/media computer. (An Asus Chromebox running Ubuntu with extra memory and storage.) Given that most "smart" TVs still require you to type shit by arrowing around with the remote, I can't imaging even trying to use it as such. So much easier to have a desktop browser with wireless keyboard and mouse.
It's irritating that the TV needs to boot up and think for 4-5 seconds before it responds to remote commands, but other than that it's pretty much a dumb TV. I'm unclear why the GP has gone down the specific rabbit hole he has.
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
I don't know. I'm fairly certain that's beyond the skill set of the vast majority of the population though, so it's irrelevant except to us tech geeks.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
You can get cheap, dumb 4K IPS TVs. Several brands, but it's the same set.
I was worried. Reviews generally sucked, but not unhappy with it. $300 for a 55 4K TV (not the lowest price ever). Speakers are bad, but long covered.
I assume the quality control is terrible and I got lucky. But so what? You might be delayed with round trips until you get a good one, how much of a problem is that?
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
That is all great where you are able to do that. Could you call my mom and explain it to her on how to do that?
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
You can get reasonably big (65 is easy) dumb 4k tvs. Just not in a name brand.
But good news, the panels are all the same.
Once I realized that all the dumb TVs were the same, I was left with no viable choice, took the small financial risk. It's not bad, as good as any IPS screen, which isn't a surprise as the screen likely came off the same line.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Have you tried buying an unsmart TV in the US recently? Moreover, even if you have a home router and have access and know how to set up its routing tables, how do you know what IP address(es) your new 56 inch Spycoware TV is using?
I look at the DHCP reservations and figure out its MAC, then block that. I have yet to hear of one of these devices doing MAC randomization.
That is all great where you are able to do that. Could you call my mom and explain it to her on how to do that?
I answered the question asked. If you want me to provide tech support to your mom, we can install a router at her house with some kind of remote access that I can use to perform administration.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I still have this feeling like all this data valuation is a bubble, it is hard enough to glean useful trends out of rigorously collected scientific data. How much does Charmin pay Samsung to find out that the basement TV primarily streams PJ Mask and use that info to try to influence whether I buy the store-brand generic at Kroger vs Sam's Club? My understanding is that the market for banner ads has mostly collapsed as a way to make money, what'll be the next fad after tracking metrics crashes?
How do you set up WiFi without the remote?
I have two smart TVs, so-called. they are not connected to the Internet. doing so exposes them to worms, viruses, and malware that the makers do not correct via updates. it also exposes "partner content" to my life. I get my content from $30 Roku boxes that are as replaceable as fuses if they get punked. I'm still smarter than my TVs.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
You were a fool to buy these so-called 'smart' devices in the first place, and you're even more fools now for keeping them -- or at least for continuing to allow them access to the Internet. You claim you don't care about your own privacy, but in reality you at some point will, and in the meantime you're being inconsiderate of everyone else by encouraging these shitty companies to use every dirty trick they can to pry into everyone else's lives, too. Repent!
Watch World War II documentaries and you are a neo-Nazi. Watch Wentworth (Prisoner Cell Block H) and you were a closet lesbian. God help you if you watched both.
Let me guess, you'd be officially outed as *being* Ilsa, the Werewolf Woman of the SS ?
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I forget. Probably volume and channel buttons to navigate an onscreen keyboard.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Not being tracked? Really?
He explicitly said that Nothing he does will be uploaded !"
He never mentioned whether this uploading won't happen because there's no tracking happening at all,
or whether this uploading won't happen because these companies already track you to the bone on the cloud and thus there's no extra tracking information that needs to be uploaded.
--
The Firestick is an almost dumb device that displays remotely served content. It doesn't track much locally and doesn't upload much... because the Amazon Streaming server already tracks and knows everything about you.
Amazon Alexa runs entirely on the cloud. The Amazon Echo device, is only a glorified internet streaming microphone+speaker combo. Beside recognizing a keyword ("Alexa !") it doesn't do much and is certainly unable to do tracking on its own ... because it's the giant AI behind Alexa on Amazon's cloud that knows everything about you up to your most secret desire.
Facebook on your computer is just basically HTML, just content. (I'm over simplifying)
All the horrible stuff that fills Mark Zuckerberg's pocket with cash happen on their servers. Be it the creepy stuff like face recognition image processing that they run on each single photo of you, even if you don't have a profile. Or the massive online behaviour monitoring : that "like" button might be a simple static image, but knowing *for which webpage* the FB servers were asked to serve it is the most interesting breadcrumbs path ever.
---
in other words : Woosh
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Can you give it a WiFi network with no Internet?
Set up a VLAN for your WiFi device (and those connected through it) and block that at your main router. Or assign the device a static IP and block that -- or assign it an static IP that won't route off the LAN.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Don't need to snip anything -- switch to a media server or dvr, problem solved.
Absolutely. Internet is convenient for browsing free movies online but not essential. My media server and Chromecast are strictly internal.
I expect TVs and appliances will soon have LTE cellular modems so they can collect consumer info without the need WiFi permissions. It will be close to impossible to turn them off.
Every upgrade the TV gets this fucking thing tries to get you to agree to it by using several dialogues (if you keep choosing to tell it to fuck off) and with clever wording and button placements.
This shit should be illegal and companies should be fined. Starting with Sony and/or Samba TV.
Have you tried buying an unsmart TV in the US recently?
Yes, but there is a trick to it that the advertising industry doesn't want you to know and is difficult to without knowing.
"unsmart tv" or "dumb tv", or in fact any term that would imply being counter to a "smart tv", doesn't really exist. I'm sure on purpose.
But if you use the secret search term "computer monitor hdmi", you'll find plenty of options in most of the same screen sizes, all of which will accept input from your cable box.
There are a couple limitations of these dumb TVs you should be aware of however:
1) They will only function as a TV for the 99% of Americans that have a "tuner box" from their cable or satellite provider.
If you are in the smaller group that uses an antenna for broadcast TV, these dumb TVs will not have a tuner built in.
They do exist as 3rd party add-ons however, as these are needed for older TVs too as most (all?) areas in the US no longer broadcast analog channels.
They usually run about $20-25
Satellite service pretty much requires such tuner boxes, so won't be any problem there.
Cable service depends on your provider. Spectrum/TimeWarner for example, this won't be a problem as those boxes are required, there is no unencrypted analog channels on the wire anymore.
Comcast was rumored earlier in the year to be going this route, but I don't know if that has happened. (They don't service my area, so I don't keep up on their goings-ons)
2) These dumb TVs don't fully go up in size the same as current smart TVs.
The largest I've seen in a store (Microcenter) was a 90"
This is smaller than the latest LG/Sony offerings at this years CES, as their smart TVs go up to 120" now.
3) Mind how many HDMI inputs the display has. It's typically much less than a smart TV, and usually it's one (1)
For those with many devices to connect to their dumb TV, this might be an issue.
For the less technically inclined, this might require another 3rd party product, an HDMI switchbox.
Thankfully they are pretty cheap. $40 for 4 ports.
For the more technically inclined however, these dumb TVs will and do contain other non-HDMI ports that may serve your needs.
DVI-D for example becomes an HDMI port with a cheap adapter or cable for it, one you may have sitting around that perhaps came with an older video card.
Display port or VGA may be helpful if you use closer to standard computer hardware to stream video online.
4) Sound, by default these dumb TVs won't provide sound unless explicitly listed in its features.
This is OK, as there is another 3rd party product called an "hdmi sound extractor" that you plug in and can connect it to your sound system. These run about $25-30
So, the big question is does this dumb tv setup work for you? Good question!
There tend to be two groups of people with vastly different requirements for their TV.
One group are those with limited financial resources. The other group tends to have much more financial resources and expendable income.
I don't mean to be insensitive or judgmental here, but it's mainly the first group that needs to pay extra attention to the details:
The 3rd party addons above can add a good $100 on top of the dumb TV itself. This may not be insignificant.
This group also does tend to favor more economical options on average.
One may not have a cable subscription or satellite service, but utilize over the air broadcasting. As I said, this requires an extra purchase, so needs kept in mind on total cost.
One may also favor options like renting DVDs/Blurays, which need a player. I'll assume the player is already taken care of, as it would need to be for a smart tv too, however it does matter when it comes down to the number of HDMI inputs to plug one into.
The switch box mentioned then becomes needed, and adds to the total cost.
The same goes for videogame consoles, which TBH is a form of entertainment both groups enjoy, b
I've got a dumb TV. Even if you do have a smart TV, nothing prevents you from plugging in an ethernet or giving it your wifi password. Stick on a Roku or other streaming device instead. That way if you find out it's spying on you then it's a lot cheaper to replace that $50 device than to get a new TV.
Outside is overrated though!
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
So you want to get access so other don't have the access? Nice try.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
We are talking about a Samba privacy issue, right?
So you want to get access so other don't have the access? Nice try.
That's pretty much how it works. At some point, you have to trust someone. If your mom doesn't know anything, a remote support tech could easily trick her into adding a rule or turning on an option that would accomplish the same thing for an attacker instead.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I have a dumb TV too, and I use a Fire TV Stick (2nd) for video streaming. Right now it's actually hooked up to the HDMI port on my monitor, because the TV is in storage. But if I had a "smart" TV I wouldn't fret, because it's easy enough to keep under control. Just firewall that part off, and don't use it, and then the only annoyance comes when you accidentally switch to its input.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
This should come as no surprise; we can assume that every internet connected device spies on you.
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.