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Chan Zuckerberg Initiative Claims It Has Enabled Its Partners To 'Double the Number of Black and Latinx Students and Girls Taking AP Computer Science' (chanzuckerberg.com)

Posted by msmash on from the closer-look dept.

theodp writes: In a Monday blog post, the outgoing Head of Education for Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg's Chan Zuckerberg Initiative made the claim that "we've made investments that enabled our partners to double the number of Black and Latinx students and girls taking AP Computer Science." The claim is an apparent reference to the highly-promoted and wildly-successful new AP Computer Science Principles course (dubbed "Coding Lite" by the NY Times), which the NSF and College Board began development on in 2009. Zuckerberg's CZI LLC was created in late 2015.

30 of 251 comments (clear)

  1. how many in total? by ole_timer · · Score: 5, Funny

    from 2 to 4?

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    nothing to see here - move along
  2. Who knew? by cre1mer · · Score: 3, Informative
    Latinx is a real word.

    The term is a political neologism that has gained traction among advocacy groups combining racial and gender identity politics.

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    Goodbye, Slashdot!
    1. Re:Who knew? by avandesande · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually it's a new flavor of Linux documented in Latin, why would you think they would post gender/identity BS on this site?

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    2. Re:Who knew? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Latinx is a real word.

      The term is a political neologism that has gained traction among advocacy groups combining racial and gender identity politics.

      In other words, its a xenaphobic term, trying to suggest that gendered languages are inferior to the true Americanish with it's pure gender neutrality. These people are sick.

    3. Re:Who knew? by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Bad example. German is completely bonkers with its articles. The table is male, the milk is female, so "The girl puts the milk on the table" is literally "it puts her on him" in German.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Who knew? by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Insightful

      xenaphobic

      It's frightened of a fairly meaty woman in a leather dress who chucks a razor-sharp frisbee around?

      I forget who said it (probably Ben Franklin back when usenet was a thing), but you should never use a word in writing that you've only heard in speech.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    5. Re:Who knew? by pezezin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have lived all my life in Spain, so obviously Spanish is my mother language, and I'm seriously tired of all the idiots who try to promote this supposedly "gender neutral" language, ending words in -@, -x or -os/as. The first two are unpronunceable, the last one is way too cumbersome. I wish they would stop butchering our language.

    6. Re:Who knew? by fuzznutz · · Score: 5, Funny

      I have lived all my life in Spain, so obviously Spanish is my mother language, and I'm seriously tired of all the idiots who try to promote this supposedly "gender neutral" language, ending words in -@, -x or -os/as. The first two are unpronunceable, the last one is way too cumbersome. I wish they would stop butchering our language.

      If you can convince media personalities in the US from breaking into hyper exaggerated, ultra accented Spanish pronunciation of Spanish names while reporting otherwise in an American accent, we have a deal.

    7. Re:Who knew? by Octorian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      English is the odd one out here. Almost all the languages in the world have gender nouns.

      This is why I get pissed when I see people ranting and raving against what few gendered terms might exist in English discourse. They should be lucky to speak a language that actually has gender-neutral nouns and pronouns.

      Just imagine if these people learned about other languages.

    8. Re:Who knew? by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's because it ends in "-chen" a diminutive. Gender in German on a compound word is always based on the last part of the compound rule. A diminutive of anything is a "das".

      If you referred to a boy as a Jungchen it would ALSO be neuter. Das Jungchen.

      Just to follow up if anyone is curious: Mädchen is formed by joining Magd (Maid, a feminine noun) with "chen" (a generic diminutive ending that is neuter).

      And you can join Junge (boy masculine) with chen (neuter) to form the word Jungchen which is neuter in exactly the same way that Mädchen is.

      So... no sexism here.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    9. Re:Who knew? by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2

      I have trouble with the concept. I know most European languages have it, but it seems strange assigning gender to inanimate objects.

      I agree... What is amazing is how the concept is so global. Europe- Asia- Africa... gender is in language everywhere. It would be one thing if it was just one language family- you'd think it's just a quirk of that language, but it's everywhere.

        It probably says something about the human brain... I'm not sure what- but probably says something.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    10. Re:Who knew? by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I have lived all my life in Spain, so obviously Spanish is my mother language, and I'm seriously tired of all the idiots who try to promote this supposedly "gender neutral" language, ending words in -@, -x or -os/as. The first two are unpronunceable, the last one is way too cumbersome. I wish they would stop butchering our language.

      It's funny how many things are considered offensive "on behalf of another group of people" when that group of people weren't offended in the first place.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    11. Re:Who knew? by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      No matter how many times you stab systemd it just respawns.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    12. Re:Who knew? by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

      -@, what the hell? May I suggest you pronounce that by trying to imitate the sound of an exited chicken.

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      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    13. Re:Who knew? by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Germans are pragmatic. Instead of trying to change the language and pretend they change the condition, they'd rather just change the condition. I.e. instead of creating gendered language and making certain "hurtful" words a nono, they simply made gay marriage and third genders a legal fact.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    14. Re:Who knew? by sabbede · · Score: 2

      Well, "Latino" is the short way to say "Latina/Latino", so I guess it's imagined offence. I think they call that sort of imagined offence by-proxy "microaggression", so maybe we call them "microaggressors"? Or , "microbrained" for short.

    15. Re:Who knew? by mjwx · · Score: 3, Informative

      Is it offensive or just shorthand to avoid having to say/write "Lanina/Lantino" every single time?

      What is the word for someone who sees offence everywhere? Not themselves offended as such, just assuming everyone else is motivated by offence.

      The solution already exists in Spanish. Use the masculine pronoun for a mixed gender or gender non specific, Latinos would be correct in Spanish. In English you could also use Latin or Latin people as gender non-specific.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  3. Yay! Quotas!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Meanwhile, almost 2 out of 3 college students are female...

    1. Re:Yay! Quotas!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But don't you dare suggest that maybe the womens college fund has served its purpose and should be abolished.

      That would be sexist.

  4. This is great by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Next, let's work on getting more men into nursing and teaching. Diversity is always good, right?

    Right?

    Hello?

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    Do you have ESP?
    1. Re:This is great by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Working with people ain't that much better. You know the old joke:

      Person at 20: Oh, I want to work with people!
      Person at 30: Ya know, rocks are pretty cool as well...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:This is great by slinches · · Score: 2

      I know keyboards can be gross, but they are infinitely better than bed pans.

      --
      Knowledge Brings Fear
    3. Re:This is great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If they want to get men in to teaching, maybe they need to work on removing some of the stigma that any man interested in children is immediately assumed a pedophile. I was in Manchester recently and saw a park with a sign that literally said men weren't allowed in to it without a child present.
      I know I wouldn't ever go into primary school teaching even though I do legitimately have interest in it. In lower grades everybody assumes you're a pedophile and in higher grades if you piss a female student off she can make the claim you had an inappropriate relationship with her and that's enough to ruin the rest of your life, and likely land you in jail, no matter if the claim was true or not.
      And to think there's people out there lobbying to always believe the accuser when a false accusation ruins the accused so completely.

  5. Latin[ao] by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Funny

    If they can't understand a simple regex then they don't have a hope in CS. Perhaps they could become narrative diversity therapists or something.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  6. Re:Great by Hognoxious · · Score: 5, Funny

    Or more people programming, bringing in different points of view.

    Like what? That OOP is inherently unfair because it uses classes?

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  7. Re:Great by iriecolorado · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Different points of view don't come from different skin color or genitals.

  8. The Patriarchy by labnet · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They just need a good dose of Jordan Peterson.

    He totally debunks the lefts idea that the lack of black/female students in stem is because of the white patriarchy by showing a high correlation between countries that are highly egalitarian (such as the Nordic countries) and those that are not (such as India) showing the STEM ratio of men to women get WORSE when females are given more free choice.
    The whole SJW, patriarchy thing is being driven by far left ideologues who don't really want to help the people they claim to support, but are after power so they can force their ideology on everyone.
    Equality of opportunity not outcome!

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    46137
  9. Race, gender, IQ, and occupation by blindseer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The average American has an IQ of 98. The average American with European or Asian ancestry has an IQ of 100. The average American of African or Hispanic ancestry has an IQ of 95. While males and females have the same average IQ the distribution of IQ among males is wider than that of females, which means more geniuses and more... not geniuses.

    The average IQ of a person in a computer related field is 110. Someone doing software/computer/electrical engineering will be slightly higher at 115. Those that graduate with a degree in computer science, information science, and most engineering disciplines, will have an IQ around 125.

    Statistically speaking the people with the intelligence to graduate in computer science and related fields will be predominately white or Asian, and male. Those with the intelligence to be successful in an occupation writing computer code will the predominately white or Asian, and male. Claiming to be able to double the number of Hispanic and Black students into computer science means, as best I can tell, one was able to increase their intelligence.

    I guess the alternative is they found a way to handicap the competition for these classes. Colleges and universities have been handicapping white and Asian applicants to get more Black and Hispanic students. All they did was double the drop out rate of Black and Hispanic students at their schools. Affirmative action is not helping these people. Don't put people in classes and jobs for which they are unsuited, that's only displacing someone that might be better suited for that position.

    We've effectively ended racism in the USA. That's not saying there are not any racist people in the USA, only that it's been made socially unacceptable and punishable under the law if used to keep people from jobs and services.

    There is no easy answer for the disparity of women and minorities in STEM, because there is no easy answer to correct for the varied genetics in these populations we generally describe as races and genders. Genetics is a very large part of IQ. Maybe IQ is 50/50 genetics and things like nutrition and education. Maybe IQ is only 20% genetics. What portion of IQ that is genetics is not all that important, what is important is to realize that we can't just "fix" the uneven distribution of IQ over race and gender with better schools and better nutrition.

    Trying to blame this on racism or sexism gets us nowhere but continued frustration on reality not fitting the fantasy people create for themselves.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    1. Re:Race, gender, IQ, and occupation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The bell curve still exists for blacks and latinos so there will still be plenty that will fit your distribution for CS... this is no where near accounting for disparity in actual enrollments.

      If the IQ needed to get a degree in computer science is 120, where Hispanics have an average IQ of 95 and Whites an average of 100, then the distribution of people getting degrees will not match the general population. An average IQ of 100 in a population means 10% (or there about) of them are above 120. An average IQ of 95 in a population means 6% (roughly) of them are above 120. A quick search of stats on race in the general population, in computer science, and some back of the envelope math tells me that this is about right for Hispanics working in programing in the USA.

      Also the fact that women will have same IQ also throws your theory out the window.

      No, it doesn't. The claim was that while the average is the same the distribution of intelligence among males is wider. I don't know how much wider it is but if the standard deviation on IQ for females is 10 and for males it's 20 then the ratio of males/females with an IQ above 120 is not going to be 1/1, it's going to be more like 2/1, 3/1, or even 4/1. Go find the standard deviation on each sex and do the math.

  10. AP CS Principles != AP CS A by reiscw · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'm an AP Computer Science A teacher (the reason there is an "A" at the end is that there used to be an "AB" course as well that included data structures). That course is equivalent to CS1 at most universities, and that's what you get credit for if you take it (at most places). Java is the language and there's a good treatment of OOP, as well as recursion, sorting/searching algorithms, lists, arrays, and the fundamental stuff. The course that they are describing here is not AP CS A, it's a relatively new course, AP CS Principles. This is a course that's equivalent to a course that many universities create (including two in my metropolitan area) for liberal arts majors (meaning it's a gen ed course). Programming is part of the course, but 25% or less, and the course is intentionally language-agnostic. It's not a bad class (it exposes students to data science as well as programming, which I think is great), but it's not like CS A, which is a "for real" programming class equivalent to a course for freshmen in a CS major. Increasing the diversity in AP CS A is an accomplishment (in my opinion), but increasing AP CS Principles diversity is not very impressive unless you show that the students coming out of it choose a CS-related major (including data science, which is starting to be offered as an undergraduate major).

    What concerns me a little bit right now is that many superintendents think they have a solid CS program if they offer AP CS Principles. I don't think you have a solid program until you have AP CS A or an equivalent course in a language like C++ or Python. Describing APCSP as "Coding Lite" may be too generous a description.