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A Student Was Rejected By A College Because Of China's 'Social Credit System' (buzzfeed.com)

Posted by msmash on from the closer-look dept.

An anonymous reader shares a report: A prestigious college in Beijing that reportedly tried to bar a student because his father was on a government blacklist is causing huge controversy in China. According to state media reports, a high school student with the surname Rao in the eastern city of Wenzhou, in Zhejiang province, was accepted on the back of his score in China's fiendishly difficult and incredibly competitive national college entrance exam. But before his family could enjoy Rao's accomplishments, the college notified them he may not be able to attend because of his father's poor credit standing -- the father owed 200,000 RMB (about $30,000) to a local bank, and had been put on a blacklist dubbed the "lost trust list" for individuals with bad social standing, state media reported.

Blacklists are a key feature of China's controversial "social credit system" -- a set of government programs that sets up both incentives and disincentives to encourage people to behave in socially desirable ways. Social credit in today's China involves government programs that collect and analyze data from different parts of people's lives, including their education history, compliance with traffic rules, criminal history and debt. It has raised serious concerns over individual privacy rights.

37 of 255 comments (clear)

  1. What Individual Privacy Rights? by brian.stinar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We're talking about China, right?

    1. Re:What Individual Privacy Rights? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 4, Interesting

      >>A (Chinese) college in Beijing...bar a student because his father was on a government blacklist

      As designed. Checks out. I half suspect this story was planted by the Chinese government to loudly advertise the fact that its blacklist will hurt doublethink offenders' kids too.

      Wake me up when we get the story from America that someone's kid was denied entrance to a university because his/her dad spouted off with some pro-Trump or pro-socialist screed on social media.

    2. Re: What Individual Privacy Rights? by sycodon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Who defines bad behavior again?

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    3. Re:What Individual Privacy Rights? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 4, Informative

      Just writing TRUMP on the sidewalk is a microaggression and wearing a Trump shirt can get you booted from class. So we're not too far off of when you need to rise and shine!

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    4. Re: What Individual Privacy Rights? by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But society changed.
      It always changes. Blocking foreigners, or contradicting ideas will not stop society from changing.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re:What Individual Privacy Rights? by mwvdlee · · Score: 5, Funny

      The fun thing about microaggresions is that you can do about a million of them before they start counting as aggression.

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    6. Re: What Individual Privacy Rights? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >> Who defines bad behavior

      If you didn't have a "Ready for Hillary" bumper sticker in 2016 or wrote a post doubting Bush's embedded reporters in 2003 then you were behaving badly, citizen. Expect a, er, "tax audit" soon.

  2. Like Mccarhty? by lucasnate1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Just read "I married a communist", a novel about the Mccrathy era. There was a part there where someone was unable to get a scholarship because a friend of his was in a blacklist. Yes, I know that technically one can have the money to study without the scholarship, but I bet that someone rich enough to do that would also have enough money to somehow fix his social credit.

    --
    Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
    1. Re:Like Mccarhty? by NFN_NLN · · Score: 4, Funny

      Just read "I married a communist", a novel about the Mccrathy era. There was a part there where someone was unable to get a scholarship because a friend of his was in a blacklist. Yes, I know that technically one can have the money to study without the scholarship, but I bet that someone rich enough to do that would also have enough money to somehow fix his social credit.

      Yes, but this is unrealistic in general. It's not like there is a centralized list where everyone's friends and relationships are documented. And even if there was the government agency required to staff it would be ridiculous. You would literally have to trick a moronic populous into entering their own information into a database of sorts. -MZ

    2. Re:Like Mccarhty? by volodymyrbiryuk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In that kind of environment it would be enought to have people snitch on people they don't like, telling about that one 'suspicious' friend the other person has. It worked in the Soviet Union and in the GDR. Why wouldn't it work in the US.

      --
      sudo rm -r -f --no-preserve-root /
    3. Re:Like Mccarhty? by bob_hymee · · Score: 2

      Just read "I married a communist", a novel about the Mccrathy era. There was a part there where someone was unable to get a scholarship because a friend of his was in a blacklist. Yes, I know that technically one can have the money to study without the scholarship, but I bet that someone rich enough to do that would also have enough money to somehow fix his social credit.

      Yes, but this is unrealistic in general. It's not like there is a centralized list where everyone's friends and relationships are documented. And even if there was the government agency required to staff it would be ridiculous. You would literally have to trick a moronic populous into entering their own information into a database of sorts. -MZ

      Perhaps we would need some sort of website filled with names and faces where individuals self identified their friends and family members. To make it more palatable we should call it a "book" of sorts. Yes, that's it, a Book of Faces! Then the government would just sit back while people self incriminate. But, no one would really fall for that would they?

    4. Re:Like Mccarhty? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Just read Sara Sander's book "I tried to eat at the Red Hen" where she was harassed out of the restraint, then followed to another one and harassed out of that one as well. Then a DNC leader, Maxine Waters, suggested doing it to the point where people like Sanders couldn't get food anywhere and would starve to death.

      This isn't something from the 50s, its from last week and I haven't seen many DNC leaders saying it was wrong. We have a major political party pushing for the starvation of half the country because they "voted wrong". Glad you can bring up stuff that might not have happened and ignore what is happening.

  3. Sins of the Father by TWX · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I thought we weren't supposed to punish children for sins of the father, or the mother, or other family members. We were supposed to punish people for their own sins only.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re:Sins of the Father by TFlan91 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In America, sure, for instance, you do not inherit your parents debt when they pass away.

      But this is China. Literally a world apart. "Family shame" is a very pervasive concept in Asia

    2. Re:Sins of the Father by sverdlichenko · · Score: 2

      You inherit your parent's estate, which includes both debt and property. So you only getting a difference, debt is paid first. This includes some non-obvious things as all the Medicaid payments made to the parent after age of 55.

      And then, in half of the states, adult children are on hook for their deceased parent's medical bills, if estate is not enough to cover it.

    3. Re:Sins of the Father by TFlan91 · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Close to 30 states have what's known as "filial responsibility" statutes. Those require adult children to pay for a deceased parent's unpaid medical debts, such as those to hospitals or nursing homes, when the estate cannot." - https://money.cnn.com/2014/06/...

    4. Re:Sins of the Father by TFlan91 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, the ESTATE pays the debt. If the estate cannot close the debt, as in pay it down to 0, it does not get passed on to the children - except those states who pass down medical bills

    5. Re: Sins of the Father by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you accept an underwater estate (because you want your parent's house or whatnot) you can be on the hook for debts. But you can also say "fuck that, keep it" and walk from any inherited debt, but you may need an attorney to swiftly tell people to pound sand. (I just did that not too long ago with a relative about half a million in the hole with medical debt - go USA; didn't pay a dime after taking attorney's fees right out of the cash left in the estate.)

      Just make sure you never, ever tell anyone that "I'll pay for that" toward the end: remember medical pros have to provide some minimal amount of care, regardless of ability to pay.

    6. Re:Sins of the Father by Rastl · · Score: 3, Informative
      States with Fiscal Responsibility Laws

      Alaska, Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada (Nevada law only addresses support of children and not support of parents. NRS Chapter 125B), New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, West Virginia.

    7. Re:Sins of the Father by Swistak · · Score: 2

      This is a relatively new concept. Previously it was usually 3 generations of suffereing for sins of your predecesors. Confucianism from the start said that your entire family is responsible for your actions.

  4. Not new news by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    I thought it was explained when we first read about the system this is exactly what is supposed to happen...

    Although frankly I think it a bit unfair to mark the son for the failings of the father. But I guess if you are going to be developing a permanent underclass, it makes more sense to have child social status influenced by the parents as an easier means of keeping them down to the same level for life.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  5. Re:bit like america's credit system by Tailhook · · Score: 3, Insightful

    New moderation needed: -1 Whataboutism

    --
    Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
  6. Meh... by sycodon · · Score: 5, Informative

    We already have something like this

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  7. It's a communist dictatorship by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As communist dictatorships go, this little thing in this story is pretty mild.

    Beats taking him out to a ditch and shooting him because he is an "intellectual" who might mislead the proletariat.

    Again, it's a communist dictatorship. The government could have literally ordered that he not be allowed to be born. And they do that very thing, with their population control policy.

  8. Apply our own 'social credit score' on China by Sebby · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Since China insists on inflicting a "social score" on their citizens, I think the rest of the world should do the same on China

    Wanna export your products here? Sorry, our "social score" for China prohibits us from doing so

    Want our companies to use your workforce? Oh, sorry, China's "social score" doesn't allow for our companies to do business with it

    --

    AC comments get piped to /dev/null
    1. Re:Apply our own 'social credit score' on China by Ginger_Chris · · Score: 2

      The problem being is, as a European looking in, I'm not sure whose social score would be lower; America's or China's.

    2. Re:Apply our own 'social credit score' on China by TFlan91 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      As bad as America looks right now, it is still by far a better place to live than China.

      Just because America is showing a bit of nastiness that's been hiding under the rug for the last half century, doesn't mean the rest of the world is any better.

      Where I live now, in eastern Europe, it is incredibly racist, unbelievably so, but the difference is that most people share those opinions so you don't have public outrage over a racist incident, people just nod their head in silent agreement and move on.

    3. Re:Apply our own 'social credit score' on China by rsborg · · Score: 2

      Since China insists on inflicting a "social score" on their citizens, I think the rest of the world should do the same on China

      Wanna export your products here? Sorry, our "social score" for China prohibits us from doing so

      Want our companies to use your workforce? Oh, sorry, China's "social score" doesn't allow for our companies to do business with it

      This used to be the case until Richard Nixon (GOP) opened the road to China, and Bill Clinton (DEM) bestowed "Most Favored Nation" status on them for trade. You'll see that I included both parties because it's more about who funded these guys and their teams. Wealthy people want more money. Ethics, Rights, your livelyhood? Check that at the door.

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
  9. Chinese and their bureaucratic layers... by MadCat221 · · Score: 2

    In America here, we just go straight to using the Credit Score itself as a social credit score. We don't have a second layer on top of it.

  10. Great way to encourage disloyalty by MikeRT · · Score: 2

    Totalitarians have never understood a simple fact about this sort of thing: maybe the apple falls far from the tree, maybe it doesn't, but it's easier to hold power by cultivating love and respect among your subjects than fear. They forget the basic principle Machiavelli laid out that most long ruling rulers have always understood, which is the hierarchy is "love, then respect, then fear" with no fourth option.

    Ruling the masses through fear is particularly dangerous because at times of crisis, it will never inspire selfless acts of loyalty to the country. Men might lay down their lives for their friends and families in a crisis in such a society, but they won't go the extra mile for the polity itself, and in a time of true crisis like a major war that can have terrible consequences when facing an enemy that inspires fanatical love and respect in their people.

  11. Re:Keep it up China by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is how revolutions start.

    Revolutions don't work any more. Militaries and intelligence technologies are too powerful. If you want a revolution to work- you have to have the backing of the military.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  12. Re:a little harsh by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Chill out China, people are more productive when they don't have to look over their shoulder constantly.

    It's ... a communist dictatorship.

    Literally. Like, literally literally, not Joe Biden "literally".

  13. Re:bit like america's credit system by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 3

    You're contrasting implementation details. If you can't afford something is the same thing as if you are forbidden from it if the result is the same.

  14. Re: No need: it's been outsourced to Facebook by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

    Lots of things are hard if you're as thick as two short planks.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  15. Re: No need: it's been outsourced to Facebook by Hognoxious · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm so witty.

    You're 50% right.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  16. Re:Keep it up China by Gavagai80 · · Score: 2

    The Arab spring revolutions "worked" in the sense of overthrowing some governments. The problem with revolutions is they turn into civil wars. A revolution in China would likely be a very bloody disaster occupying all the world's efforts/money for the next couple of decades. Would be a huge breeding ground for terrorists who'd later spread across the world too.

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    This space intentionally left blank
  17. Organ donar short list by Martin+S. · · Score: 2

    Some of these people are imprisoned purely for the purpose of becoming organ donors for the new elite.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2016/0...

    https://www.theguardian.com/wo...