Slashdot Mirror


Fukushima's Nuclear Signature Found In California Wine (technologyreview.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from MIT Technology Review: Is it possible to see the effects of the Fukushima nuclear disaster in California wines produced at the time? Today we get an answer, thanks to a study carried out by french pharmacologist Philippe Hubert and a couple of colleagues. "In January 2017, we came across a series of Californian wines (Cabernet Sauvignon) from vintage 2009 to 2012," say Hubert and company. This set of wines provides the perfect test. The Fukushima disaster occurred on March 11, 2011. Any wine made before that date should be free of the effects, while any dating from afterward could show them. The team began their study with the conventional measurement of cesium-137 levels in the unopened bottles. That showed levels to be indistinguishable from background noise.

But the team was able to carry out more-sensitive tests by opening the wine and reducing it to ash by evaporation. This involves heating the wine to 100 degrees Celsius for one hour and then increasing the temperature to 500 degrees Celsius for eight hours. In this way, a standard 750-milliliter bottle of wine produces around four grams of ashes. The ashes were then placed in a gamma ray detector to look for signs of cesium-137. Using this method, Hubert and his colleagues found measurable amounts of cesium-137 above background levels in the wine produced after 2011. "It seems there is an increase in activity in 2011 by a factor of two," conclude the team.

79 of 140 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Collector's Edition by ole_timer · · Score: 1

    label might be washed out...

    --
    nothing to see here - move along
  2. Congratulations! by jnaujok · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You have proven we can detect previously unmeasurably small amounts of radiation. Seriouslly? You had to boil down an entire bottle of wine to 4 grams of solids, then put that into the core of a gamma ray detector, just so you can determine that instead of one atom of Cesium-137, there were two.

    Talk about over-hyped headlines. The only important sentence is, "[They] showed levels to be indistinguishable from background noise."

    --
    Life, the Universe, and Everything... in my image.
    1. Re:Congratulations! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Funny when I read it I see:

      “It seems there is an increase in activity in 2011 by a factor of two,” conclude the team."

      But.. keep it up.. I can see you enjoy it.

    2. Re:Congratulations! by ole_timer · · Score: 2

      too much free time...who pays for them anyway?

      --
      nothing to see here - move along
    3. Re:Congratulations! by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 4, Funny

      You have proven we can detect previously unmeasurably small amounts of radiation. Seriouslly? You had to boil down an entire bottle of wine to 4 grams of solids, then put that into the core of a gamma ray detector, just so you can determine that instead of one atom of Cesium-137, there were two. Talk about over-hyped headlines. The only important sentence is, "[They] showed levels to be indistinguishable from background noise."

      Yeah, its ridiculous, but /. doesn't discriminate when you can say Fukushima or radiation. Makes for a headline. Selectively of content that has credibility is long gone.

      The ability to detect incredibly small trace amounts of anything could be a good story. This would be the equivalent of me farting in Kansas and someone smelling it on Uluru.

    4. Re:Congratulations! by kiviQr · · Score: 1

      It is about a science. I'd be happy to expand their research - is someone could just provide me unopened wine bottles from 1950's. No worries I will not boil your precious wine!

    5. Re:Congratulations! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You have proven we can detect previously unmeasurably small amounts of radiation. Seriouslly? You had to boil down an entire bottle of wine to 4 grams of solids, then put that into the core of a gamma ray detector, just so you can determine that instead of one atom of Cesium-137, there were two.

      Talk about over-hyped headlines. The only important sentence is, "[They] showed levels to be indistinguishable from background noise."

      Yeah, its ridiculous, but /. doesn't discriminate when you can say Fukushima or radiation. Makes for a headline. Selectively of content that has credibility is long gone.

      The ability to detect incredibly small trace amounts of anything could be a good story. This would be the equivalent of me farting in Kansas and someone smelling it on Uluru.

      Add to that the sampling has no statistical significance at all. They have proven they can find a one bottle of wine with a tiny bit more than another.

      At least we can sit back and see how many weak minds soak this up.

    6. Re:Congratulations! by Streetlight · · Score: 1

      If your unique DNA were found in what was smelled in Uluru it would be pretty conclusive the smell came from you in Kansas. Probably not possible in that case, but one needs to look at the statistics in the wine tests to confirm the analysis and the origin of the nuclide.

      --
      In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
    7. Re:Congratulations! by ebrandsberg · · Score: 2

      The fact is that this is interesting, but not in the way that Slashdot presented it. This is effectively a negative result, and knowing this IS important. You have to check to make sure, but now that you have checked, the result appears less than overwhelming. Great. Move on, and know it isn't an issue. What we don't have to do is make it known in the popular press, only in agricultural circles would this be an important (but negative) result.

    8. Re:Congratulations! by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      The most important sentence is TFS headline.

      This is a science article and it's what I signed up for.

      News for nerds, stuff that matters.

      It matters to me.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    9. Re:Congratulations! by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      You had to boil down an entire bottle of wine to 4 grams of solids, then put that into the core of a gamma ray detector ...

      Yes, but it really highlights the fruity notes and tannins.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    10. Re:Congratulations! by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      > “It seems there is an increase in activity in 2011 by a factor of two,” conclude the team."

      ...over background noise.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    11. Re:Congratulations! by vtcodger · · Score: 1

      "The only thing that really concerns me about all of this is the fact that it's still leaking into the ocean."

      If I recall correctly, "They" built a barrier to keep water from seeping INTO the Fukushima site and thus increasing the amount of contaminated water they had to deal with. Presumably that also keeps most radioactive material -- predominantly Tritium which is a VERY weak beta emitter and pretty much harmless -- from seeping out.

      Typical of most of the unending stream of enviro-crap posted by Slashdot editors the abstract an the link don't provide any usable quantification of the radioactive material in question. I'm guessing that it is MANY orders of magnitude below the natural sealevel background level of a bit more than 1 mSievert per year.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    12. Re:Congratulations! by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      I thought the headline should have been, "French win snobs use physics to prove they hate California."

      Also, the editors screwed up the flag; the French flag is vertical bars of blue, white, and red.

    13. Re:Congratulations! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      >>Slashdot is full of nuclear fanboys who get terribly offended when anyone mentions any kind of emissions from their beloved reactors.

      No we just get irritated by people who knee-jerk to any mention of radioactivity without understanding that we are constantly exposed to radiation, and that bananas and coal combustion are significantly larger sources than nuclear power generation.

      fyi, the word is spelled fanboi

    14. Re:Congratulations! by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      The only thing that really concerns me about all of this is the fact that it's still leaking into the ocean...

      If you go to a random spot in the ocean, near Japan, near Fukushima, the reason the radiation level is not uniform is that there is a lot more radiation near rocks. Same as everywhere else.

      If you swam past naked, there would be little to no difference in your radiation exposure as if you swam past another spot somewhere else in the world with equal proximity to rocks. And it is nothing compared to the level of exposure you get from living in a brick or stone house.

      The risks mostly impact people who breathed the air nearby, or live on land nearby. The difference in radiation in the air in California is less than the difference between living on the first floor of a building, or the second floor. Yes, the first floor has more radiation exposure because of its proximity to stone or dirt, but the difference doesn't lead to measurable differences in health outcomes.

    15. Re:Congratulations! by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      I still have a hoard of dried kelp, too.

    16. Re:Congratulations! by BrianMarshall · · Score: 1

      No kidding.

      --
      "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" -- HST
    17. Re:Congratulations! by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      > "It seems there is an increase in activity in 2011 by a factor of two," conclude the team.

      ...over background noise.

      No. The background noise statement was referring to unopened bottles. The "factor of two" statement refers to concentrated samples without water or glass shielding.

      It's still "a factor of two" compared to a baseline that is unstated and probably not much above background -- a meaningless statement couched in scientific terms.

      If you read TFA, however, it is a bit clearer:

      That probably won't be very useful for fraud detection in California wine -- the levels of cesium-137 are barely detectable, and even then, only if the wine is destroyed.

      They also show a graph, with unusable numbers for recent years due to axis compression from the 60's and 70's nuclear testing years. So, tempest in a wine decanter.

    18. Re:Congratulations! by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      Talk about over-hyped headlines.

      "Fukushima's Nuclear Signature Found In California Wine"

      Is it a true statement? TFA says "yes", found by a researcher that's done type of thing since 2000 to audit wines. The only hype I see after a quick scan of the threads are from commenters.

      "The only important sentence..." that you detailed is directly contradicted by the conclusion of the summary.

      I noticed that the only prediction that the scientist made is that "That probably won’t be very useful for fraud detection in California wine—the levels of cesium-137 are barely detectable, and even then, only if the wine is destroyed.", which of course is his field of study.

      Ah well, back to browsing Wikipedia. Nothing to see here.

       

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    19. Re:Congratulations! by Cyberax · · Score: 2

      The barrier was pretty much a Kabuki theater. What helped somewhat was the watertable lowering done by pumping water further inland.

      Ultimately, the amount of radiation in the leaking water is negligible. The water stored in the containers on site is just twice more radioactive than low-grade nuclear waste that can be legally discharged into sea.

    20. Re:Congratulations! by zieroh · · Score: 1

      Nope.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    21. Re: Congratulations! by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Dude. You just had a brainfart that can be smelled around the world.

    22. Re:Congratulations! by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Now the downmod makes it that awkward funny kind of moment, the uncomfortable truth kind of downmod. That uncomfortable moment at dinner when everybody realizes that Nuclear Boi farted and the jet stream carried the stink down wind to the US. oooopppsss.

      Nuclear Idealists, I'm never sure if they're punchline or the joke.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    23. Re:Congratulations! by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      yep, you could imagine the outrage if this was an issue caused by a broken solar panel or wind turbine.... oh wait.... that won't affect anything... :)

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    24. Re:Congratulations! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Looks like the fanboys have mod points. "-1 Flamebait help mah nooclear!" is a rather lame mod.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    25. Re:Congratulations! by vtcodger · · Score: 1

      FWIW, The Register article on this https://www.theregister.co.uk/... contains some actual data including a chart that shows that levels of Cs137 in 2011 wines are several orders of magnitude BELOW those from the era of atmospheric nuclear tests (1950s/1960s) https://regmedia.co.uk/2018/07...

      The comments on the Register article are interesting as well. I didn't know that mushrooms and cucumbers (the skins) seem to be effective collectors and concentrators of Cs137.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    26. Re:Congratulations! by scsirob · · Score: 1

      Not only that, but this only shows that there's more Cesium 137 in that wine. But where's the 'Fukushima' signature? Are all other sources of previously unmeasurable amounts of Cesium 137 ruled out?

      --
      To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
    27. Re:Congratulations! by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      your use of 'bathed in fissile products' is a great example of your use of hyperbole and intellectual dishonesty with pure intend to spread FUD.

      Of course if you'd read the article you would see that statement was used three times, once under the headline:

      The Japanese nuclear disaster bathed north America in a radioactive cloud.
      The Chernobyl disaster in 1986 bathed much of Europe, and other parts of the world, in a radioactive cloud that increased atmospheric levels of cesium-137 again.
      It released a radioactive cloud that bathed North America in fissile by-products.

      What about North America was suffused, imbued, showered, soaked, steeped, dipped, doused, immersed, flooded, hosed or dusted with fall out from Fukushima.

      We've seen that before.

      What we've seen before is the same trite, boring, incapable, insolent, vapid, facile, moronic, lackluster poorly thought out and dumb arguments from you Nuclear Ideologists so many times that it's clear it is some sort of compulsion to you. This is an indication of some sort of pathology of the mind so virulent you can't even use pseudo-anonymity to associate yourself with your own humiliating stupidity.

      That's why the nuclear industry, itself, calls you ideologically afflicted fanbois Useful idiots.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    28. Re:Congratulations! by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      I see you are a useful idiot, nothing useful to say except more idiocracy. All you are doing is demonstrating you never read the article. You're boring.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    29. Re:Congratulations! by greythax · · Score: 1

      I think you are missing the point. The idea was to discover if a disaster thousands of miles away could become part of a land based ecosystem at that distance. You are assuming this is about safety of wine, it isn't. And it is valuable to know if, for some reason, someone proposes to build 100 fukushima type plants (with all the poor choices that would entail).

    30. Re:Congratulations! by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      -- predominantly Tritium which is a VERY weak beta emitter and pretty much harmless --
      Harmless if you don't inhale it.
      Tell that a fish living in water ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    31. Re:Congratulations! by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      A predictable response from a FUD monger.

      You've always been too stupid to figure out the risks even when I explained them to you ad nauseam. You can't even explain your point and your pathetic linguistic take down failed. Your bathed in ignorance so why would I waste my time.

      You haven't yet posted your 'scary stuff' list.

      To start Plutonium Chloride and Plutonium Oxide are the two most obvious. Whenever we get a list of other decay products from an unbiased source we'll know the rest.

      You're welcome to keep proving your ignorance however it is clear you have nothing of value to add.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    32. Re:Congratulations! by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Presumably that also keeps most radioactive material -- predominantly Tritium which is a VERY weak beta emitter and pretty much harmless -- from seeping out.

      Typical of most of the unending stream of enviro-crap posted by Slashdot editors the abstract an the link don't provide any usable quantification of the radioactive material in question.

      This may help, a list of some scientific studies on the effects of tritium, with references, in case there is any doubt regarding Triated water's effect on living beings.

      Tritium is biologically mutagenic *because* it's a low energy emitter. This characteristic makes readily absorbed by surrounding cells. The available evidence from studies conducted journal a list of effects. From those works;

      Tritium can be inhaled, ingested, or absorbed through skin. Eating food containing 3H can be even more damaging than drinking 3H bound in water. Consequently, an estimated radiation dose based only on ingestion of tritiated water may underestimate the health effects if the person has also consumed food contaminated with tritium. (Komatsu)

      Studies indicate that lower doses of tritium can cause more cell death (Dobson, 1976), mutations (Ito) and chromosome damage (Hori) per dose than higher tritium doses. Tritium can impart damage which is two or more times greater per dose than either x-rays or gamma rays.

      (Straume) (Dobson, 1976) There is no evidence of a threshold for damage from 3H exposure; even the smallest amount of tritium can have negative health impacts. (Dobson, 1974) Organically bound tritium (tritium bound in animal or plant tissue) can stay in the body for 10 years or more.

      It's often said "of all the elements in nuclear waste tritium is one of the more harmless ones" and while it's more benign than most other radioactive effluents it's toxicity should not be under-estimated.

      Tritium can cause mutations, tumors and cell death. (Rytomaa) Tritiated water is associated with significantly decreased weight of brain and genital tract organs in mice (Torok) and can cause irreversible loss of female germ cells in both mice and monkeys even at low concentrations. (Dobson, 1979) (Laskey) Tritium from tritiated water can become incorporated into DNA, the molecular basis of heredity for living organisms. DNA is especially sensitive to radiation. (Hori) A cell's exposure to tritium bound in DNA can be even more toxic than its exposure to tritium in water. (Straume)(Carr)

      First, as an isotope of hydrogen (the cell's most ubiquitous element), tritium can be incorporated into essentially all portions of the living machinery; and it is not innocuous -- deaths have occurred in industry from occupational overexposure. R. Lowry Dobson, MD, PhD. (1979)

      References;

      Komatsu, K and Okumura, Y. Radiation Dose to Mouse Liver Cells from Ingestion of Tritiated Food or Water. Health Physics. 58. 5:625-629. 1990.

      Dobson, RL. The Toxicity of Tritium. International Atomic Energy Agency symposium, Vienna: Biological Implications of Radionuclides Released from Nuclear Industries v. 1: 203. 1979.

      Hori, TA and Nakai, S. Unusual Dose-Response of Chromosome Aberrations Induced in Human Lymphocytes by Very Low Dose Exposures to Tritium. Mutation Research. 50: 101-110. 1978.

      Straume, T and Carsten, AL.Tritium Radiobiology and Relative Biological Effectiveness. Health Physics. 65 (6) :657-672; 1993. [This special issue of Health Physics is entirely devoted to Tritium]

      Laskey, JW, et al. Some Effects of Lifetime Parental Exposure to Low Levels of Tritium on the F2 Generation. Radiation Research.56:171-179. 1973.

      Rytomaa, T, et al. Radiotoxicity of Tritium-Labelled Molecules. International Atomic Energy Agency symposium,Vienna: Biological Implications of Radionuclides Released from Nuclear Industries v. 1: 339. 1979.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    33. Re:Congratulations! by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      >>Slashdot is full of nuclear fanboys who get terribly offended when anyone mentions any kind of emissions from their beloved reactors.

      No we just get irritated by people who knee-jerk to any mention of radioactivity without understanding that we are constantly exposed to radiation, and that bananas and coal combustion are significantly larger sources than nuclear power generation.

      fyi, the word is spelled fanboi

      Yes, the AC is a fanboi.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  3. Re:Branding Oppertunity by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 2

    NukaSauvignon, maybe?

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  4. Fishing for that result? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "It seems there is an increase in activity in 2011 by a factor of two," conclude the team.

    No...

    The team began their study with the conventional measurement of cesium-137 levels in the unopened bottles. That showed levels to be indistinguishable from background noise.

    What I conclude is that this testing method, removing the 99.5% water mass, simply makes it possible to detect otherwise undetectable amounts of cesium-137.

    Sounds more like a French "researcher" wants to scare people off California wine so they will buy more French wine. OMG! DOUBLE the radiation as before! And if that "double dose" of radioactivity is still 4 orders of magnitude less than, say, standing out in direct sunlight, then it's a bit dishonest to publish this "conclusion" and pretend it's very significant.

    1. Re:Fishing for that result? by zamboni1138 · · Score: 1

      Or just buy Oregon wine?

    2. Re:Fishing for that result? by roc97007 · · Score: 2

      Well, it was the French analyzing California wine. What did you expect?

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    3. Re:Fishing for that result? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      OK, here are some facts:

      1. Nobody is claiming that this is a health risk, or that the Cs-137 in the wine is a problem.
      2. The question posed by Dr. Hubert is simple - can he detect the presence of the Fukushima disaster in post-Fukushima California wine? The answer is yes.
      3. Dr. Hubert is perhaps the world expert on low-background radiation measurements.
      4. Similar work has put people in jail. Wine fraud is big business, but Dr. Hubert can tell that that "1923" Chateau Whatever was produced after the nuclear bomb tests of the late 40s and 50s.

    4. Re:Fishing for that result? by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      What I conclude is that this testing method, removing the 99.5% water mass, simply makes it possible to detect otherwise undetectable amounts of cesium-137.

      Then you would be wrong. "Background" and "undetectable" are not synonyms. "Background" can be quite a bit higher than the detection limit.

      What removing the water and ashing the remainder does is concentrate the sample and bring the level above background, which is what you would expect if you concentrate anything. Doing the same thing to a pre-Fuk wine of recent vintage results in a reading of X. Post-Fuk you get 2*X. In both cases X is detectable and above background. Unconcentrated wines don't measure above background, and if "background" was undetectable then you wouldn't know what background is to know if they are above or below it.

      And if that "double dose" of radioactivity is still 4 orders of magnitude less than, say, standing out in direct sunlight, then it's a bit dishonest to publish this "conclusion" and pretend it's very significant.

      It is significant. It shows that the difference can be measured in something as common as wine. It doesn't claim that anyone is going to die because of it, or even be harmed. It just reports a scientific finding.

    5. Re:Fishing for that result? by ElderKorean · · Score: 1

      Well, it was the French analyzing California wine. What did you expect?

      One wonders if they also looked at French wine using the same process/rigour?

    6. Re:Fishing for that result? by stoborrobots · · Score: 1

      Umm, a "spectrometer" measures the radiation "spectrum".

    7. Re:Fishing for that result? by SCVonSteroids · · Score: 1

      Oui oui! You muzt drink zee wine from la France!

      --
      I tend to rant.
    8. Re:Fishing for that result? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      One wonders if they also looked at French wine using the same process/rigour?
      During/after the Chernobyl incident? No. France simply declared that the radioactive cloud would not pass over the french border. (That is not a joke).

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    9. Re:Fishing for that result? by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      One wonders if they also looked at French wine using the same process/rigour?
      During/after the Chernobyl incident? No. France simply declared that the radioactive cloud would not pass over the french border. (That is not a joke).

      What, because of some kind of force field?

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    10. Re:Fishing for that result? by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Your first claim is factually incorrect. They could not detect any more radiation. They didn't even measure it.

      The first sentence of paragraph 2 of the arxiv paper: "The technique used is low background gamma spectrometry and measurements are made at the PRISNA facility." Gamma spectrometry is a measurement of the energy spectrum of gamma rays -- in other words, a measurement of radioactivity. (Yes, you have to integrate over all energies to get a total radioactivity, but it's measuring radioactivity just the same.)

      What they did was simply to look for presence of any cesium 137 atoms in a spectrometer.

      Your claim is factually incorrect. Gamma measurements do not directly measure the number of Cs 137 atoms. Cs137 decays via a beta particle to produce either stable Ba or unstable Ba (~95%), which further decays via the emission of gamma radiation. It is the gamma from Ba decay that is measured, so they are actually measuring, indirectly, the number of unstable Ba atoms.

      Your second claim is blatant whitewashing.

      Since you are too lazy to quote what you are referring to, I can only guess that you are referring to my statement of fact -- that the article did not claim any harm would come to anyone from this "2X" factor. Sorry, that's a fact. I don't know what you think needs to be whitewashed, unless it's some bizarre idea that all radiation is bad and that people drinking Cali wines should stop because they're now too polluted with that awful radiation stuff.

  5. You're drinking it wrongly by chrism238 · · Score: 4, Funny

    500 degrees Celsius? I said raise it to room temperature!

  6. Before anyone pushes the panic button by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The only real use of this research beyond curiosity is authenticating wine (but only if there's enough that destroying a liter of it is worthwhile). Fukushima created a barely detectable bump compared to the few years before the incident.

    Looking at the graphs in the actual paper, The signature isn't really even visible compared to the spikes after the '50s nuclear tests.

    1. Re:Before anyone pushes the panic button by sjames · · Score: 1

      Read TFA. They were unable to detect anything outside of the noise without destructive testing.

  7. Using the Wine is not an Emulator topic icon. by xack · · Score: 1

    Similar to how the "digital" icon gets reused a lot.

  8. Wrong association. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The levels of Cesium-137 are a radioisotopic measure, not a location measure.

    "Fukushima's nuclear signature" is a mistake of the research. No citations. No proofs. No relations.

    California has many wine's farms.
    But California has many nuclear centrals.

    The environment of Nevada or New Mexico was polluted by their nuclear detonations in the past. It could affect to the wine's farms of California.

  9. That's alcohol abuse! by blindseer · · Score: 3, Funny

    Don't they know that they are supposed to drink the wine? Not reduce it to ash? There's more than one way to abuse alcohol. You can drink too much of it, or waste it by not drinking it at all.

    I'm surprised that the California health bored hasn't demanded that there be a warning on the labels that Cesium-137 may be present in the wines and is known to cause cancer.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    1. Re:That's alcohol abuse! by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      I'm surprised that the California health bored hasn't demanded that there be a warning on the labels that Cesium-137 may be present in the wines and is known to cause cancer.

      I know, right? Those crazy libs. Everybody knows that Cesium-137 is perfectly safe.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:That's alcohol abuse! by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Whooosh!!

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    3. Re:That's alcohol abuse! by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Whooosh!!

      I'm pretty sure your wooosh got woooshed and you don't even realize it.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:That's alcohol abuse! by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      the California health bored

      Yes, it's boring. Or was. Now it's just bored....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    5. Re:That's alcohol abuse! by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Whooosh!!

      I'm pretty sure your wooosh got woooshed and you don't even realize it.

      Blindseer was having a whine. The Whoooooosh our idealistic nuclear friends are experiencing is that this is the first evidence of radio-isotopes bio-accumulating in American produce. Reading the threads here they are in full denial, unable to reason or do anything that conflicts with their nuclear ideology.

      They're too willfully ignorant to admit to themselves that this is and has been occurring, blindseer is a great example of willful ignorance. They'd like to believe that it's the only bottle of wine, the only crop of grapes, the only fruit and vegetable, that it's below the threshold, it's of no consequence, insignificant, that there is no reason to be cautious with this technology. To them one day the perfect reactor will come along and solve all these issues if only the Nimbys and greenies would just get out of the way despite the fact that it is the oil and coal companies that are the ones who lobby against their dream technology.

      I'd like to see what equipment can pick up a microgram of plutonium chloride in a ton of lettuce or pick out which cow ate the grass that the strontium 90 settled on, that made the milk that ended up in the chocolate bar. It's a complete failure of imagination on their part that they are unable to extrapolate consequences of actions and because it is too complex for them they simply are unable to muster enough cognitive effort to work it out. It's cognitively easier for them to take the dogmatically skeptical morally superior option and pretend their opinion is backed by fact when in reality it's social proof and magical thinking. It's understandable - they want the best for everyone but are incapable of thinking it through.

      Of course when it come to producing the fact I have never seen one of these Nuclear Ideologists able to back up their statements with any usable information in over a decade of arguments here on /. Typically it's always some sort of haughty arrogance that their argument would be supported if you just went out there and found the facts for them to back up their argument.

      So when you do that you learn just how much they have been deceived by the Nuclear Industries PR machine, how unable to think for themselves they are, how unable to research and at least try to uncover the facts that lead to useful knowledge.

      Instead they resort to some pretty petty tactics to frustrate the discussion because that's all they have.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    6. Re:That's alcohol abuse! by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      First instance? Ignorance must be bliss. You even talk about pro-nucs being willfully ignorant! What delicious (and banana-flavored) irony!

      Potassium is only one analogue for bio-accumulation, pu239 analogues Iron - getting enough iron in your diet? getting enough iodine, calcium. Some do, some don't, can you wrap your binary mind around that concept or would you like to continue to demonstrate your idiocracy?

      Oh and I wasn't talking about pro-nucs, I was talking about Nuclear Ideologists such as yourself, useful idiots compelled to post their trite empty bullshit.
      Thanks for demonstrating everything in my post. Do come back and prove it some more.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  10. BFD by WindBourne · · Score: 2

    It doubled. Big deal. Sadly, all the nut jobs will be screaming about it and claiming that nuke power is bad, while pushing coal. Of course coal has put far more radiation into the air and water than has nuke power.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:BFD by crimson+tsunami · · Score: 1

      Only Trump pushes coal Windbourne, stop trolling.

    2. Re:BFD by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Natural isotopes in coal are not enriched isotopes from nuclear.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    3. Re:BFD by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Of course coal has put far more radiation into the air and water than has nuke power.
      It hasn't, that myth is debunked since the 1960s ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    4. Re:BFD by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Caesium 137 is not an "enriched" isotope, it is a decay product.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    5. Re:BFD by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Thanks for pointing that out. My point is that the stuff coming out of coal are natural isotopes and whilst they should be collected the stuff coming out of the Nuclear are artificial products and generally much more toxic.

      If there is going to be issue about natural isotopes being released then they should not be released from Nuclear Industry processes either.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    6. Re:BFD by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      First of all, not all coals are contaminated with radioactive materials. It simply depends which kind of rock or sediments are around the coal.

      Radioactivity comes mainly from Radon, Uranium, Thorium and some Lead isotopes.
      As ash is collected and the typical "fly ash" no longer exists in industrialized countries, not much is escaping.

      The numbers one can find are that worst case the ash is as concentrated as yellow cake uranium ore from pit mines.

      Yes, I fully agree that isotopes where every they come from should not be spread around.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    7. Re:BFD by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      First of all, not all coals are contaminated with radioactive materials. It simply depends which kind of rock or sediments are around the coal.

      Yes agreed, ore quality.

      Radioactivity comes mainly from Radon, Uranium, Thorium and some Lead isotopes.

      Seems like what you would expect.

      As ash is collected and the typical "fly ash" no longer exists in industrialized countries, not much is escaping.

      It's commonly used as a concrete additive where I live.

      The numbers one can find are that worst case the ash is as concentrated as yellow cake uranium ore from pit mines.

      Yes, a big energy input of Nuclear Energy, usually fuel oil where they mine it. We have that in my country and they allow something that is illegal in America and Russia - in situ-acid leach mine to get yellow cake which leaves concentrated naturally radioactive sulfuric acid. There was an accident where a 2 Mega litre dam burst. Pollutes ground water quite effectively.

      Yes, I fully agree that isotopes where every they come from should not be spread around.

      Nuclear idealists do not treat this stuff with respect and I think it was my day to be pissed off with their pig headed willful ignorance of published indications that radio isotopes bio-accumulating in produce on the western United States sold on the benefit of dating wines in a immature wine making market. Not what they're dong there in the first place.

      They just bury their head in the sand and say it's fine, no problem no need to do anything to try to stop the damn thing thing leaking - just leave it to Tepco, it's their problem not ours as the years drag on and still no international effort to take it out of those incompetent idiots hands and sort it out with some urgency.

      Future generations will loathe us for not doing something sooner.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  11. Ah... by roc97007 · · Score: 1

    So that's the fizzy taste.

    I like food that fights back.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  12. Wow by Camarillo+Brillo · · Score: 1

    No fooling? Its a small world afterall.

  13. Just wait. by Hallux-F-Sinister · · Score: 1

    The half-life of Cs-137 is about 30 years. If the amount found in California-produced wines was twice the previous level in 2011, (assuming all this is true, which I'm not really willing to assume,) then that means half of it will decay (statistically speaking,) in the 30 years following 2011. So if you hold-off drinking it until 2041, which is probably good for aging the wine anyway, that means the amount of radioactive, Fukushima-connected radionuclide (of Cs-137) should be at most, back to pre-tsunami levels by then.
     
    Of course, if Cs-137 decays into something that's just like, WAY more poisonous, on the other hand... this might be cause for concern. Otherwise, the danger from the alcohol in the bottle is probably greater than the cesium inside. But who knows, I could be wrong. Just to be on the safe side, I'm going to drink something else instead... like the perfectly safe, totally clean drinking water in much of the rural, central United States. Bottoms UP!

    --
    Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
    1. Re:Just wait. by TheSync · · Score: 2

      About 94.6% of Cesium-137 decays by beta emission to a metastable nuclear isomer of barium: barium-137m (137mBa, Ba-137m). The remainder directly populates the ground state of barium-137, which is stable. Ba-137m has a half-life of about 153 seconds, and is responsible for all of the emissions of gamma rays in samples of caesium-137. 85.1% of metastable barium then decays to ground state by emission of gamma rays having energy 0.6617 MeV.

  14. Re:French Marketing Dream by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    France can go fully environmental.
    French wine is enjoyed at perfect temperature.
    With the correct use of online memes wine users will be returning to French and EU quality and food standards.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  15. Oh Yea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Well, I can still detect Chernobyl's nuclear signature in French truffles! So there. In other news, bananas are radioactive. You are radio active too! Fact. This is just meaningless scare mongering with a little error in sample. The paper was written by a nincompoop. Source: am a physicist and have worked with gamma ray spectroscopy.

  16. They should have experimented on cannibis by sethmeisterg · · Score: 1

    It would have been a much more satisfying experiment.

  17. You guys are missing the point by TheDarkener · · Score: 1

    The slashbots are at it again...at least the summary isn't "alarming", it's stating the facts. You are all jumping to conclusions mat.

    "Tell your mom I'm just gonna get a little cacner, Stan"

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  18. Finally! by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    My wine-cellar light is broken, I could use wine that glows in the dark.

    1. Re:Finally! by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      You just need to arrange it carefully, so you can pick the non glowing bottles in between.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  19. Story behind this wine by Daralantan · · Score: 1

    Reminds me of some wine/cigar/whisky enthusiasts saying they like when there is a story and history behind whatever they are drinking/smoking.

    Not sure this is the story they wanted though.

  20. Non-event by torkus · · Score: 1

    So using their own graph and comparing to when countries were actively conducting nuclear testing it's somewhere around 0.1% of the Cesium from back then. Anyone drinking a bottle of wine from 2011 shouldn't care. Anyone drinking a bottle of wine from the 50s or 60s however...where is the PSA? Where I ask you?? Where???

    --
    You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.