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There is No Guarantee That the Products You Recycle Are Actually Recycled, the UK Watchdog Warns (bbc.co.uk)
An anonymous reader shares a report: The National Audit Office (NAO) says over half of the packaging reported as recycled is actually being sent abroad to be processed. As a result, it says, the government has little idea of whether the recyclables are getting turned into new products, buried in landfill or burned. While an illusion of success has been created by the UK's system for recycling packaging, the NAO says, the reality may be quite different. Its report finds that: The government has turned a blind eye to underlying problems with the waste system. Firms may be over-stating the amount they are recycling. The Environment Agency has only carried out 40% of the recycling checks it planned to.
That's why i don't recycle because there safer in the landfill. At least its contained and cheaper for myself.
Because to economically recycle plastic, it has to be source sorted by recycling # (which reflects chemistry).
Which means you need to have a half dozen plastic recycle bins, imputes a value of $0.01/hour to your time.
Also colored glass and paper is almost never actually recycled.
The bastards do this, because the sorting time looks free to them. They should be kicked square in the balls/cunt.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
As a result, it says, the government has little idea of whether the recyclables are getting turned into new products, buried in landfill or burned.
If you don't know then the answer is that they are being handled in whatever manner is least expensive and/or most profitable. Most likely that is either burning or landfill with the chances increasing the lower the energy inputs required to make new. To presume otherwise is to be naive. Steel and aluminum are probably recycled because the energy required to make new is enormous versus recycling. Plastics are probably just buried or burned or dumped in the ocean.
There is a saying that people don't do what you EXPECT, they do what you INSPECT. If you want to be sure it is being handled appropriately then you need to inspect the process to be sure. If you don't inspect then you won't get what you expect.
This is a known problem in the States too. NYC, in particular, sends over half of its "recyclables" to landfill anyway. But, not to worry, they still fine people for failing to sort their trash — whether it helps environment or not, whatever increases the government's power over the subjects is a good thing, is not it?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
It's good for the environment, and okay for you.
>> The Environment Agency has only carried out 40% of the recycling checks it planned to.
99% of these stories about an agency's work end with "and if they only had more money, they could finally do the job they were supposed to do". They almost always leave out the budget distractions, ridiculous IT contracts, HR training, excessive pay, unfire-able lifers, extraneous administrators and other items that could be slashed instead.
Penn and Teller: Bullshit did an episode on recycling, and it's been off the air most almost a decade. Is this seriously being brought up as "news"?
Because Al can do it, and Al will do it, for you. Right, Al?
Seattle sends its unsorted recycling to China.
Maybe it's time for a real ecological study on the real effects of recycling vs. simply burying everything. Our oceans deserve more than a good feeling we get by putting things in the blue bins.
We should learn what we need to know about issues, before we decide what we need to feel about them.
All the trash goes in wherever in whatever bin. I have given up trying to be the good tenant because my landlord doesn't seem to give a shit. In my previous apartment I was blamed for other tenants putting the wrong stuff in the wrong bins. I wish people would make up their minds. these days I really don't give a shit about the whole recycling thing because no one else around me seems to care. I hope the coming generations enjoy living on top of smoldering landfills with plastic choked oceans encircling them. Bah.
http://www.acetonestudio.com
That certainly doesn't rule out the waste is being reycled.
How slashdot contradicts itself in just one page.
http://i67.tinypic.com/2ignosz.jpg
LOL
In Thailand, cheap labour digs through the bins to take the plastics out. They can make about 300-500 baht a day, about $10-$16
"The cheapest thing is almost certainly also the greenest"
There's no such linkage.
Maybe burning plastic _is_ the appropriate way to handle that waste?
Perhaps but if you are paying someone to recycle it and they burn it instead then then you aren't getting what you paid for. If I hire your company to recycle my plastic then there are clear expectations about what that means and what it should cost. If I pay you to recycle it and you burn it because that's cheaper then that is fraud, plain and simple. Whether or not that is the optimal use for the material is irrelevant to the contractual agreement. And of course there are the environmental considerations too but those are a separate matter.
Unless you can find someone to work for $0.05/hour you can't afford to 'recycle' it, though burning it is technically recycling it.
??? Burning it is most definitely NOT recycling. You know darn well what recycling means.
The cheapest thing is almost certainly also the greenest.
If that statement were true then dumping toxic waste in nearby ponds would be the greenest thing possible. It's true that green CAN be cheap but there is a reason the Tragedy of the Commons is a problem.
Maybe burning plastic _is_ the appropriate way to handle that waste?
Landfill would be a better bet. Most packaging in recycling bins is either made from fossil-carbon sources like oil or natural gas or from trees and plants like paper and cardboard. Burying it sequesters that carbon and doesn't immediately add to the CO2 levels in the atmosphere whereas burning it does.
Burning it and generating energy from the process would offsets an equal mass of fossil fuel, so it wouldn't add CO2 to the atmosphere. That actually makes the most sense-- you get the value out of the oil in the form of plastic, and then get the energy out of the oil when you're done with using the plastic.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
While we may not know whether the stuff in our recycling bin is being actually recycled or not. I can guarantee that the stuff in the trash bin is not.
So, I look at it as an opportunity for it to be recycled if the system, processors, markets and everything else align in contrast to simply tossing it in to the trash bin.
It's the thought that counts...
If that were true, it would be a butt simple decision. You get a good fraction of the energy back, not 100%.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Every time they chastise me for not recycling, I go on a rant about how all that shit is either shipped to china, or just burned anyway.
Only thing that makes sense to recycle is glass and metal.
No, it costs about $1 in gas and $15 in time to stop at the car parts store on the way home to dump it responsibly. It costs $2000 in fine plus $600 in lost work if I get caught dumping it down the drain.
You forgot to risk adjust your calculations to come up with an expected cost. You multiply the cost by the chances of getting caught which in all likelihood are extremely low.
Make the people on welfare do it. Are you able to work and getting government money? Well looks like you're going be sorting recyclables.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Clean it, then bury it. That seems to be the best for the environment.
[($)]
That depends on whether you're in an area that actually depends on fossil fuels for electrical power. British Columbia, Quebec, and significant chunks of Ontario do not. They're either on Hydro Electric power or on Nuclear (in the case of Ontario and Quebec).
...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
Recycling is how it gets into our Oceans.
[($)]
I was working late one night and discovered that the cleaning crew was routinely emptying the blue trashcans with the recycle logos on the side into the same bin as the non-recyclable waste. This was back in the later-'90s and I can easily imagine this happening all over. Even today. [sigh]
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
No matter how many times paper or plastic is recycled eventually it could be made into toilet paper or a trash bag. Then the chain of recycling ends.
I've always been in support of recycling even when I knew as a student all the dumpsters went into the SAME garbage truck (I saw it after school.)
Multiple parts in the process have to ALL be addressed. If you get everybody but jerks recycling that is just the 3rd part of the process. 1st part is regulating what's made, we don't hardly do that.... 2nd part is not buying stupid cheap disposable shit we do not need in the 1st place (that won't ever happen.) + more steps...
China had all those boats full of junk we bought and since they took over, we had nothing to ship back to them so they made $$$ taking our UNSORTED trash without any accountability when they got it back home. Now they don't want our trash, it's not more profitable than just buying the gas for the boat.
If we want recycling to work, we have to not be so LAZY and presort again. Then we have to BAN mixed materials because nobody seriously sorts by looking at those 1-7 labels on the plastic... That isn't even the big thing-- banning stupid things like straws is finally being done. Things like BOTTLES should have remained glass (clean and reuse) like they always were-- it's entirely corporate conspiracy to slander consumers for not recycling their forced TRASH because they want to save pennies on containers (because their competition is cheaper... hence the NEED to regulate a level playing field. just like regulations stop your business from assassinating your competition.)
Government WORKS only if YOU collectively inspect/regulate it same with corporations and the assholes that make up 1/3 of society. We get what we deserve.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Burning fossil-carbon-derived plastic adds CO2 to the atmosphere. Burying it in landfills unburnt means it doesn't add CO2 to the atmosphere. Saying that it's likely that the plastic will decompose slowly underground but it will take decades or centuries to form methane and eventually CO2 and escape into the atmosphere which is a good thing in the medium term. We're still heading for 450ppm CO2 and beyond in a couple of decades time.
We have trillions of tonnes of fossil carbon we can dig up and burn in the form of coal and lignite which can't easily be turned into plastic, assuming we want to continue committing slow suicide by fossil carbon combustion. Burning fossil-carbon plastic as well just speeds things up.
The 3 R’s. There is a reason recycle is third in reuse, repurpose, recycle. Just disposing of so much is stupid, when much if it can be used still, abet for other things than originally intended.
I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
Recycling is more the last option, reducing and reusing as much as possible instead of recycling it much better.
Aluminum, lead-acid batteries, steel and a few others
For most disposable products, recycling is a political tactic to make environmentally conscientious people believe that disposable products are environmentally friendly
A few years ago I worked for a company that wanted to be seen as environmentally friendly, and someone there had the idea that we should begin recycling paper. Good idea? Yeah.
Two problems.
1. No one ever bothered to talk to the 3rd party cleaning service we used to let them know that these new bins were recycling bins.
2. Our city didn't offer recycling services for businesses. So even if #1 had been taken care of, there's still nothing we could do with this recycling.
So at the end of the day, we spent money on new recycling bins and spent time on sorting things out into recycling bins, only for the contents to be thrown in the same trash bags nightly.
First, take all the packaging - and leave it at the store. Make them deal with it and bear the cost. Then it shows up as bad corporate behavior on the annual reports.
Second, reduce usage. If a tiny battery comes in ten pounds of packaging, don't buy that. Or leave it on the sales desk.
Third, reuse. I just brought in ten ramen in a bread bag. I'll probably use that bread bag three to five times. This cuts my waste to 1/3 throught 1/5 what most people do, plus I didn't need a bag. This also can be used as a garbage bag, by the way. The reason I brought in ten ramen was I bought a cardboard case of 24, and you can reuse that box or recycle it.
Fourth, recycle. But if you have a need for soup, reuse your cottage cheese container to store it or other sauces.
There, cut the waste stream by 90 percent. Stop whining, grandpa!
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
All CD/DVDs are poly-carbonate - it's industry. But the law could say you have to PICK a standard and stay with it. So say all food containers must be PP #5? no mixed caps made from #2 or #4. All PVS must be white and all ABS must be black... kind of already happens in plumbing pipe. exceptions for classes of products... Think of it like HID class drivers. Sure some will bitch that they can't make their product different by confusing the situation-- well, tough, you can't make your bike out of radioactive materials so it glows either.
Tax the exceptions to cover the burden those things impose; that creates incentives to innovate around the taxes.... nothing seems to motivate capitalists more than avoiding taxes... we should capitalize upon that!
Obviously, globalization is a huge huge problem and tariffs need to be done... stronger than in the past and the WTO and our treaties do all seem to totally suck... Trump is right on that; but we need intelligent new ones and he appears unable to beat the bad ones we have already.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Burning it and generating energy from the process would offsets an equal mass of fossil fuel, so it wouldn't add CO2 to the atmosphere.
You have the logic of this wrong though I understand what you are trying to say. This isn't offsetting fossil fuel consumption. It is just using a delayed form of burning from oil previously pumped. We are adding roughly the same amount of CO2 to the atmosphere if we burn X amount of oil or if we burn previously pumped oil that has been turned into plastic. Either way the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere increases by roughly the same amount. As long as the plastic remains plastic it's effectively prevented from turning into CO2 roughly akin to if it had been left in the ground. (there are other problems but that's a separate issue)
That actually makes the most sense-- you get the value out of the oil in the form of plastic, and then get the energy out of the oil when you're done with using the plastic.
At the cost of pumping a bunch of carbon and other stuff into the atmosphere. Plus you have to expend additional energy to turn the oil into plastic though this is something of a sunk cost if you were going to do that anyway. If you can recycle the plastic directly into another plastic then you are sort of practicing a form of carbon sequestration, albeit something of a messy and energy intensive one. Burning plastic is not as efficient as burning "pure" oil and derived fuels.
Stupid naive leftists.
Why does the author declare that the fate of exported recyclables is mysterious?
Affordable chips with GPS and texting (and perhaps satellite) technology can be inserted into any item and tracked for weeks or months.
Any serious reporter would track items and their final disposition.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/a20878/investigators-used-gps-to-track-us-toxic-electronic-waste-exports/
Recycling means reuse. Not perpetual reuse.
Burning is not reuse so your point remains invalid.
You can't efficiently solve a multiple step problem involving multiple parties (not all who are willing to participate) all at the same exact time... trying to do that makes it nearly impossible to do.
You give the kids a habit of recycling even though the school trashes everything. Later, as adults, they are used to the whole process so they are not lazy bitching litter bugs resisting change/progress and having to lift a finger. I could figure that out as a teen? how old are you?
Furthermore, upset adults who spent their lives as part of the theater SHOULD want to make it REAL rather than give up something that was supposed to work and would work if somebody in government wasn't corrupt.
I vote. I know they are crooks, I aim for lesser crooks - I do not stop and do nothing; and I sure as hell go for somebody trying to fix the system in a significant way.... a lot of gullible people did that in 2016 (not all of them, some are racists or xenophobes or tribal or crooks.)
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
There is, however, a guarantee that products not recycled aren't
If there's no economic advantage to recycling over dumping, maybe recycling isn't worth it. Ideally you'd be able to tell that recycling is actually happening because it'd be cheaper than dumping. Of course I'm ignoring the environmental impact. If that's the only benefit of recycling, I fear we're doing something wrong.
Everything can be called indoctrination; did you grow up on a deserted island all by yourself? If not, then you were indoctrinated. It's all a matter of WHAT is to be indoctrinated not whether or not it is going to happen. My tribe good... better tribe than you tribe...
Does everybody question and think about everything on their own? Hell no! I wish. Most the planet is religious; oh yes, religion is fundamentally indoctrination. Is it bad? sometimes. Is it good? Well, i don't want to argue with everybody I meet to convince them it's a bad idea to kill me and take my stuff... Surely, you'd want some indoctrination and LAWS that align with that. Some laws go too far some not far enough; where you get upset is when it doesn't align with your values. Oh, BTW, where did you get your values? (hint: topic is indoctrination.)
Stupid people need simple directions to follow with simple reasons. God said so ;-)
Seriously, even us smarter educated people have plenty of stupid moments; to be stupid sometimes IS to be human...arguably it IS the normal human state; after all, cognitive psychology keeps proving that point further.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Burning plastics isn't that efficient as you need to add on the energy required to run scrubbers to remove various toxic gasses from the output. It's not that easy to get a clean burn either, without significant preparation of the plastic, which also requires energy. Where it ultimately sits in overall life cycle efficiency compared to coal or gas I couldn't say for sure, and it will vary from location to location, method of collection, burning, etc.
The EROEI might not be positive, but the right way to look at it is relative to the energy costs of landfill and new items, burning and new items, recycling, reduction, or reuse, and how likely these are to happen.
I'm skeptical of your cynicism! believe in god still? heaven? democracy? heil trumpf? scientists? have all the time in the world and brains to do everything yourself? think you picked yourself up by your own bootstraps? think others can? think others are equal to you therefore shouldn't get anything you didn't get?
Propaganda is about emotions. Thinking only in support of those emotions. Sometimes it can be hard to see the nuance between thinking bringing out emotions and emotions driving rationalization.
I've not checked out Democracy Now in years. They were the best thing in the USA for a decade; don't know about now. Infowars, I followed in the early days before it existed because I have a conspiracy friend who was a huge fan but it was to me largely entertainment as it evolved into a big greedy ego fest that it is now... it's clearly for profit, unlike democracy now.
Cynicism itself can be a paranoid delusion itself... A real cynic has to be capable of being cynical about cynicism itself sometimes... don't just bite on every conspiracy story. You may not be, but there are people who actually are selfless people and a shitload of people lying to themselves and others. Plenty of selfish takers too; if not the majority... which is why capitalism kind of works (but not in it's extremes one has to be cynical about all religions, especially economic ones because economics are the real gods.)
I know there are no perfect solutions in life; but it doesn't mean that I just give up. Hell, if you ever do AI work you'll start to grasp this stuff. Everything is a non-linear approximation of some fuzzy goal where it's hard to define optimal success with certainty let along wondering the maze in the dark for the way out... we're all rats in the maze... or AI approximating equations beyond comprehension. Your thesis is probably along the lines of defeatism but with a religious belief that anarchy will yield produce as good results as continual attempts at "a more perfect union." I think perhaps you should explore anarchist thought... so should I... I've never read far in that direction because it's so absurd. Nature is all about complex systems (physics included) limiting chaos. Yes, we are attempting to play god, or nature in a way. we do that sort of thing all the time.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
You're probably better off recycling at home by reducing the packaging you use, and re-using things that can be re-used.
Do you really need a brand-new virgin plastic bag every time you make a purchase in a store? No.
Do you really need a new plastic cup every time you want a drink of coffee? no.
Do you have to buy a plastic bottle with water in in every time you're away from the house for a few hours? no.
When you have finished with a thing, does it have to be binned? You could at least ask neighbours and friends if they want it, and charity stores will take anything they think they can sell. - Or if it has some worth, use websites like freecycle and ebay to pass stuff on.
By all means sort your packaging waste - but you can do a lot before it even gets to the bin. - Simple.