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US Airlines Change Taiwan Reference On Websites Ahead of Chinese Deadline (cnbc.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the global-business dept.

hackingbear writes from a report via CNBC: After dragging their feet for months and requesting help from the Trump administration, all three major U.S. airlines -- American, Delta and United -- decided to change how they refer to Taiwan airports on their websites to avoid Chinese penalties right before the Wednesday deadline. Earlier this year, China demanded that foreign firms, and airlines in particular, not refer to Taiwan as a non-Chinese territory on their websites, as such practice violates Chinese laws. The White House in May slammed the demand as "Orwellian nonsense." Numerous non-U.S. airlines including Air Canada, Lufthansa, and British Airways had already made changes to their websites. The airlines "now only list Taipei's airport code and city, but not the name Taiwan," reports CNBC. It was unclear how China might punish airlines that don't comply, but it did add a clause saying regulators could change a company's permit if it did not meet "the demand of public interest." An American Airlines spokeswoman said in a statement: "Air travel is global business, and we abide by the rules in countries where we operate."

37 of 199 comments (clear)

  1. Free Taiwan is dead by aberglas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Xi Jinping has made his ambitions very clear. And we will do nothing to stop it.

    This does not require some massive invasion. Just bit by bit, Xi will tighten the screws. Threats will work just fine as the rest of the world abandons Taiwan.

    It will be like Hong Kong. At first China will just demand a token governor be appointed, with only ceremonial powers, as symbolic recognition. Then they may give Taiwan a seat on the Chinese politburo, appointed by the Chinese government. Then closer police cooperation.

    Taiwan will do what everyone does and self censor. Radicals that want to push back will be censored by the Taiwanese themselves. Bit by bit that governor will become more powerful.

    1. Re:Free Taiwan is dead by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2

      It very well may go as you fear; certainly China is working hard to make sure it does. But there's one basic difference between Taiwan and Hong Kong--Hong Kong was tied to a 99-year lease that ran out. There really wasn't much recourse once the lease ran out. Taiwan doesn't face a similar problem.

    2. Re:Free Taiwan is dead by taiwanjohn · · Score: 4, Interesting

      At first China will just demand a token governor be appointed, with only ceremonial powers, as symbolic recognition.

      This would be a non-starter in Taiwan. The people have always favored the "status-quo" (as opposed to outright independence) simply to avoid friction with the mainland. But they chafe at this sort of diplomatic isolation, such as participating in the Olympics as "Chinese Taipei". The more the PRC pushes, the more they push the Taiwanese people away. I find it difficult to imagine any sort of "unification" beyond a superficial "Greater-China Federation" agreement wherein PRC and ROC are co-equal partners. Anything that smacks of control from the mainland will be resoundingly rejected by the population.

      I don't pretend to know how all this will work out in the long run, and I would be skeptical of anyone who claims to know.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
    3. Re:Free Taiwan is dead by jrumney · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Taiwan is nothing like Hong Kong. It is a breakaway republic started by an exiled former government. Hong Kong was leased for a fixed period, and the handover back to China and gradual transition was planned all along.

    4. Re:Free Taiwan is dead by jrumney · · Score: 2

      Why Cantonese? Are you expecting a new dynasty from the south to take over politically within the next 10 years? From the ground, it appears the opposite is happening - it is becoming more common to hear Mandarin in the streets of Hong Kong than Cantonese these days.

    5. Re:Free Taiwan is dead by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      The economic power is in the south.

      I'm expecting a credit crunch induced global _mess_. We can't all keep printing money, then pissing it away. But the Machiavellian plays mean nobody can stop, even if they wanted to...

      You peg to our currency, we print money. We print money, you print money. You change your peg to a basket, everybody prints. It's a party or it's a war, nobody knows for sure, all we know is 'they' are still talking and smiling at each other and money is cheap.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    6. Re:Free Taiwan is dead by quenda · · Score: 2, Informative

      Taiwan is nothing like Hong Kong. It is a breakaway republic

      It was if you swallow the propaganda. Or you could as easily say the PRC broke away from the RoC.
      The republic of China was forced to shift their capital from Beijing to Taipei, just as Israel did to Tel Aviv, or Germany to Bonn.
      The country was split by war, like Korea and so many others.

      The problem is that the Kuomintang never declared independence, but absurdly claimed to rightfully rule all of China. This somehow worked for a couple of decades, but in 1971, the UN recognised communists PRC instead.
      Now that communism is dead in all but name, you'd think a negotiation might be possible, but Taiwan is not keen on going back to authoritarian single party rule. I think we will have a stalemate for a long time to come. But then look what happened to east/west Germany so suddenly and unexpectedly.

    7. Re:Free Taiwan is dead by haruchai · · Score: 2

      It is a breakaway republic started by an exiled former government..

      That's a giant load of horsefeathers. FYI, Taiwan held a seat at the UN as China until 1971 when Nixon struck a deal with Mao

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    8. Re:Free Taiwan is dead by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      The economic power is in the south.

      True ... in Shenzhen ... which is a Mandarin speaking city.

    9. Re:Free Taiwan is dead by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Also, Taiwan has an army, while HK did not. If they feely they are being abandoned, they have the industrial base to build nukes within a few months.

    10. Re:Free Taiwan is dead by aberglas · · Score: 2

      Indeed, Taiwan was ruled by Japan before that. Not by China since the 19th century. And it was independent before that.

      An important difference with Hong Kong is that HK never became properly democratic under the British -- the HK money did not want to give the masses any power. So there was a vacuum when China moved in. Taiwan has been properly democratic for decades.

      But I still think Xi will softly invade Taiwan, and we will look the the other way. Then they will start to put much more soft power on us, particularly when they have a few air craft carriers and a totally controlled domestic population.

      Emperor Xi is getting older. He rules China, now it is time to expand.

    11. Re:Free Taiwan is dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      There's much wrong in your comment.

      Taiwan is not a breakaway republic. Taiwan IS STILL officially called the Republic of China. The constitution STILL includes all of the mainland territory, and even included Outer Mongolia until recently. The constitution still uses terms like Huaxia which means literally China. ROC + PRC both actually use the term huaxia in their official names.

      Under the '92 consensus, both Taiwan and China basically agreed that there was one China, but they had differing opinions on what China exactly meant in terms of governance, etc.

      Hong Kong WASN'T leased for a fixed period. The New Territories were leased for a fixed period, while HK and Kowloon was given in fee simple.

    12. Re:Free Taiwan is dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is completely wrong. When you say 19th century. You mean 1895. That means for 95 years of the 19th century China had ruled Taiwan. And Taiwan was never independent since the 1600s. It was conquered by late Ming, and then later by the Qing.

    13. Re:Free Taiwan is dead by Lurks · · Score: 5, Informative

      You don't seem to understand Taiwan and have misstated the situation.

      The current government of Taiwan is a pro-independence government. It's a democracy, and these people were voted in. There's no chance of China appointing anyone, that's just not going to happen. It's easy to make the mistake. China has been so successful at telling everyone that Taiwan == China that people start to believe it, but it simply isn't true.

      There is no plan for China to take over, there is no timetable. It is fundamentally not possible nor would the electorate accept any appointments by China.
      They're also pragmatists and have no interest in provoking China. This is why the status quo continues.

      However the PRC has essentially bribed or strong armed almost every nation on earth to avoid formal recognition of Taiwan as an independent country. This is shameful really, but money talks. This has real effects on Taiwan, like not being able to participate in international forums. However in other respects business carries on regardless of the word games. Countries can't have embassies in Taiwan, for example, but they have 'offices' that do exactly the same thing.

      It would be nice to see some leadership, from the US maybe, in resolving this absurd situation. It could start by addressing the current issue (economic threats on airlines that describe Taiwan as a country), and ideally... by formally recognising Taiwan. Trump even alluded to that, but ... it was just a bit of anti-China rhetoric it seems.

    14. Re:Free Taiwan is dead by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's interesting you mention Hong Kong, because that is really relevant here.

      People in Taiwan were watching how Hong Kong got treated, and they didn't like it at all. If the Chinese government had treated Hong Kong better, then Taiwan would have been much more willing to join.....but now there is too much opposition to that viewpoint, because they can see what will happen.

      To be clear, it isn't about economics or money: it's about freedom. The people in ROC see how Hong Kong has lost their freedoms, and they don't want to lose their own.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    15. Re:Free Taiwan is dead by hackingbear · · Score: 2

      Shashdot simply omitted the history context from my original post

      In a move betraying to its former ally Taiwan, ROC, the United States signed into the One-China policy in a joint communique with China in 1972. Since the Republic of China government fret to Taiwan gave up its hope of "re-invading the mainland" (due to the rise and modernization of mainland China,) pro-independence and pro-unification political forces are competing for power to rule the island.

      In the 1970's China was weak and backward, it couldn't possibly bribe or strongarm the most powerful nation in the world. Yet the most powerful nation in the world went ahead to betray its own ally. So tell me why?

      Now that China is becoming a superpower of its own threatening the dominance of the US, and then they try to rally up political forces in Taiwan, Hongkong, and Tibet, as well as using trades, in an attempt to take down the number two, just like they tried (and succeed) when taking down the former number two -- Soviet Union.

      By the same logic / ideal of the West, Catalona and Haiwaii should be sovereign nations by now.

  2. Disputed Zone by AHuxley · · Score: 3

    In Capitalist West Communism directs language use to you.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  3. Priorities by GrahamJ · · Score: 2

    Who cares what the White House says? What does Taiwan have to say about it?

    1. Re:Priorities by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 2

      Who cares what the White House says? What does Taiwan have to say about it?

      They're pretty upset in general. Just like any place, there are some small numbers of crazy people and in this particular case I would call people who actively want Taiwan to become part of China right now if not sooner by the term "crazy". But such people aren't in large numbers, but they do exist. I'd say they're maybe 1% of the population at most. Now, you do need to understand that similar to how in the USA the Republicans and Democrats have demonized each other, Taiwan has a similar situation where the "pan-green coaltion" of independence minded parties enjoys accusing the "pan-blue coalition" (mostly the KMT - the old Nationalist party of Sun Yat Sen and Chiang Kai Shek) of wanting to surrender Taiwan to China ASAP. While there are probably a small number of KMT aligned people who do want that, as an outsider my opinion is that the vast majority of KMT members simply want Taiwan to survive as it is right now and to ensure that it does they are playing games with China in acting like reunification is their ultimate goal, but in reality they are actually just trying to keep Taiwan from being invaded.

      I read the Taipei Times online and I have a good friend who lives in Taiwan that I happened to have talked to a few days ago. Taiwanese people in general are pretty upset at this constant and unending erosion of their space everywhere. Lots of companies have now changed their websites to outright say that Taiwan is part of China. Honestly, this whole thing reminds me a hell of a lot of the Nazi takeover of Czechoslovakia where the world turned a blind eye. Can anybody here list a recent similar situation where a democratic country/territory (the later is for the crazy pro-Beijing nuts who might be here) was threatened with takeover simply for being democratic? You see the Taiwan poses 2 threats to Beijing. Number one is that it shows that a democracy can work with Chinese people. One of China's secret arguments, one that even Jacky Chan has publicly supported, is that Chinese people can't be trusted with democracy and need to be told what to do. The other threat is that lack of control over Taiwan prevents China from stopping oil shipments to Japan, who it still essentially views as an enemy who still must pay for the crimes it committed in WWII. A recent Chinese military document talked about that being an ultimate goal of China after they take over Taiwan. I know the world wants to ignore this and hope it goes away, but it won't and I can assure you that it is being ignored at everybody's peril and it just sends a message to bad actors like Xi and Putin that nobody in the west will stand up for the little guy if the big guys threaten him.

  4. Soft Power by Puls4r · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is what is called excercising soft power. Soft power is developed over time through financial and political influence. It is easily lost through buffoonery, name calling, and ineffectiveness. China has soft power. They rarely threaten or comment without taking action. Their financial situation and power affects every country in the world.

    Essentially the Chinese have learned the mantra "Speak softly and carry and big stick." American government has done just the opposite.

    For instance - making comments like XXX will suffer consequences, or "our nukes are bigger than yours" are exactly the kind of threat that destroys soft power. They are threats that are rarely or never acted upon, and they undermine your credibility.

    Our current administration has spent every last big of political capitol that the United States had left. No one is afraid of us. We are no longer the biggest dog in the room, and we continue to put our fingers in too many holes in the dyke rather than picking our battles carefully.

    1. Re:Soft Power by omnichad · · Score: 2

      American government has done just the opposite.

      So you're saying Trump speaks bigly and has a soft stick? Sounds about right.

    2. Re:Soft Power by Kjella · · Score: 2

      They rarely threaten or comment without taking action. Their financial situation and power affects every country in the world.

      In fact, they're big enough that non-action is quite effective. After the independent Nobel committee gave Liu Xiaobo the Peace Prize in 2010 they basically put the relationship to us here in Norway in the deep freezer for six years. No political talks, no new trade agreements, creating new business relations was near impossible and existing ones were languishing. Nothing so overt as to cause a formal complaint, we were simply unwanted. We refused to give any sort of apology, they refused to relent. Eventually after 3.5 years we caved to an agreement that pretty much said we'll stop commenting on China's internal affairs:

      The Norwegian Government reiterates its commitment to the one China policy, fully respects China's sovereignty and territorial integrity, attaches high importance to China's core interests and major concerns, will not support actions that undermine them, and will do its best to avoid any future damage to the bilateral relations.

      After that there's been pretty much total silence on China, refusing to even join the EU in their criticisms. Here and in the US the government changes every so often, if you couldn't make friends with Bush then maybe Obama or Trump. In China if your relationship turns shit it just stays that way. They don't compromise, they don't budge, they just say come back when you're ready to apologize and behave nicely and show you the door. Which is what I suspect Trump will find out if he starts a trade war with China, they won't be coming to the negotiating table. They'll wait it out until the US comes crawling back asking to resume trade.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  5. Local Customs by pubwvj · · Score: 3, Insightful

    An American Airlines spokeswoman said in a statement: "Air travel is global business, and we abide by the rules in countries where we operate."

    In some countries they require women to wear burkas so American Airlines is planning this for all their female stewardesses and pilots world-wide?

    1. Re:Local Customs by hyades1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think I read the same article you did. I recall the Air France stand on the matter, and thought they did a magnificent job of standing up for civilized conduct in a world where increasingly, drooling fanatics are being allowed to call the shots.

      As far as I'm concerned, if a country wants to cover women in mobile tents, forbid vaccinations and birth control, or engage in any of a dozen other behaviours that essentially spit in the face of science, free speech, individual freedom and other keystones of a free society, its borders should be pretty much sealed, except for legitimate refugees trying to get the hell out.

      And yes, I'm going to ignore the low-hanging fruit about whether some US states would fall under such a ban if it were instituted on less than a country-wide basis.

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    2. Re:Local Customs by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      In some countries they require women to wear burkas so American Airlines is planning this for all their female stewardesses and pilots world-wide?

      Companies abide by the rules set out by the destination country in which they operate and fight them on legal grounds. There are plenty of countries that require women to wear burkas, there are very few (or rather none that I know about or could find in a quick google) that require foreigners to do so in airports.

      There are also plenty of airlines around the world that require their staff to wear appropriate dress at the destination e.g. In the news nowish is Air France fighting with it's union (like it always does) about requiring women to wear headscarves when the destination is Iran.

    3. Re:Local Customs by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 2

      The country of H33tl4x0ria actually requires women to be nude at all times and perform hand jobs on demand. While we don't have an international airport at this time, it's nice to know that American Airlines will comply with our customs when we do.

  6. Re:Solution by youngone · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What makes you think the US gives a toss about human rights?
    Here's a quick list of human rights abusing dictators the US has installed or supported or both over the last 70 years or so: Franco in Spain
    Suharto in Indonesia
    Hussain in Iraq
    Pahlavi in Iran
    Pinochet in Chile
    various Somozas in Nicaragua
    Ubico & Castillo Armas in Guatemala (among others).
    Marcos in Philippines
    Frankly that's just off the top of my head without thinking about it too much.
    If you think manufacturing is coming back to the US you don't understand how multinational corporations work.
    But based on you wanting to nuke China I am pretty sure you don't understand much.

  7. Re:Crystal ball by GerryGilmore · · Score: 2

    If you think for one second that Trump would go to war with China over Taiwan, you're delusional.
    First, he doesn't even know the difference between the two. Second, he'll follow the money, which is China.

  8. Two points... by hyades1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    First of all, this is yet another example of supposed "Free World" corporations knuckling under to a totalitarian dictatorship because it's profitable to do so.

    Perhaps less obvious is that in order to stay airworthy, the planes those airlines fly depend on cheap Chinese-made parts, and cut-rate labour in places like Singapore and Indonesia. Does anybody here believe an airline that stood up to China would continue to enjoy access to those lovely, cheap replacement parts? Would maintenance hubs like Singapore even pretend to stand up to China if they said Carrier X or Y was on its "shit list"?

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  9. Non-whoosh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Look mate, if you're going to try sarcasm or subtlety *anywhere* near even a *mention* of Trump, you're going to lose. There is no way to go over the top of what he does. He already does stuff so batshit loopy that it's impossible to satirise.

    If you write what you wrote earlier, I'll believe that's what you think, and *I'll* think you are just an idiot.

  10. Geolocation? by sonamchauhan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Entertainment companies trip over themselves to use geoblocking: Prime video, Netflix, even YouTube movie trailers are locked down by geography. How come airlines are so hesitant to use geolocation to identify the jurisdiction of whom they are serving.

    Present Taiwan as a part of China in China (or wherever local laws demand). Present it as an independent country elsewhere. A Chinese national using aa.com when visiting Taipei should see 'Taipei, Taiwan'. When he's back in Beijing, aa.com should show him 'Taipei, China'

  11. China is like, evil here? by TiggertheMad · · Score: 3, Funny

    This is probably where the saying, "All evil needs to triumph, is for good men to do nothing" is appropriate.

    If the west doesn't draw a line in the sand and come down hard on Xi's ambitions, then I think you are 100% correct. And at the risk of turning this into yet another culture war thread between the left and right, I don't think that our current leader is capable of credibly resisting the Chinese government in any sort of meaningful fashion short of just emptying all the silos and hoping for the best. This is a situation that requires tact, wisdom, patience, and collaboration with allies.

    Taiwan is fucked.

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
  12. White House couldn't do anything... by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

    President Xi and I will always be friends, no matter what happens with our dispute on trade.

    Trump is besties with Xi, what could he do?

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  13. Re:Crystal ball by blindseer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you think for one second that Trump would go to war with China over Taiwan, you're delusional.

    A war with China? That should be a fun half hour.

    First, he doesn't even know the difference between the two.

    Trump owns his own airplane, which he's flown all over the world. You want to pretend that Trump doesn't know where these countries are? I'll admit that he's not the most educated man but I'm guessing he knows where these places are and how they do business.

    Second, he'll follow the money, which is China.

    I read about what he did to get Otto Warmbier home. When Trump heard about Warmbier being ill he basically called up North Korea and told them that he was sending a plane to come pick him up. There was no negotiation, there was a demand. North Korea folded, granted a pardon to Warmbier and allowed the plane to leave with him on board. That's not "following the money". It's also far more than Obama tried to do.

    I have no idea what Trump might do. I'm guessing that he'd like to flatten some of these nations that have caused trouble for the USA for so long, but if it isn't his better judgement stopping him then it's his advisors.

    If Trump was just following the money then he wouldn't be in a trade war with China right now. I'm not all that pleased that POTUS has such authority to effectively dictate the price of steel but that's an authority granted to Congress in the Constitution and Congress delegated some of this authority to POTUS. I'd like to see Congress get in the business of... well, doing their damned job.

    That brings up another authority Congress delegated to POTUS, the ability to effectively enact a war without first getting permission from Congress. That was real funny hearing Congress making a bunch of noise on POTUS after POTUS waging war all over the world. At the same time Congress approved the budget to wage war, and did nothing to dial back the delegated authority of POTUS to continue waging war.

    I've noticed that much of the world stopped laughing at the USA now that Trump is in the Oval Office. That's probably because they realize that Trump just might be crazy enough to wage a war on China.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  14. Can't two play at this game? by Solandri · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Can't all the free nations of the world demand that airlines list Taipei as "Taipei, Taiwan", or face repercussions which mirror whatever China does if they don't? Yes it puts the airlines in a lose-lose situation. But it'll leave them free to vote their conscience instead of knuckling under extortion.

  15. Czechoslovakia is part of Greater Germany... by nagora · · Score: 2

    ...and the National Socialist government will punish any airline that says otherwise.

    Stop buying from, going to, or meeting with China. Isolate them, cut them off, destroy their government; save a billion people from oppression.

    --
    "Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
  16. Re:Crystal ball by serviscope_minor · · Score: 4, Informative

    I've noticed that much of the world stopped laughing at the USA now that Trump is in the Oval Office.

    Um, I think the noticing lobe in your brain mighthave stopped working.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.