US Airlines Change Taiwan Reference On Websites Ahead of Chinese Deadline (cnbc.com)

hackingbear writes from a report via CNBC: After dragging their feet for months and requesting help from the Trump administration, all three major U.S. airlines -- American, Delta and United -- decided to change how they refer to Taiwan airports on their websites to avoid Chinese penalties right before the Wednesday deadline. Earlier this year, China demanded that foreign firms, and airlines in particular, not refer to Taiwan as a non-Chinese territory on their websites, as such practice violates Chinese laws. The White House in May slammed the demand as "Orwellian nonsense." Numerous non-U.S. airlines including Air Canada, Lufthansa, and British Airways had already made changes to their websites. The airlines "now only list Taipei's airport code and city, but not the name Taiwan," reports CNBC. It was unclear how China might punish airlines that don't comply, but it did add a clause saying regulators could change a company's permit if it did not meet "the demand of public interest." An American Airlines spokeswoman said in a statement: "Air travel is global business, and we abide by the rules in countries where we operate."

Comments

Free Taiwan is dead

[aberglas]

Xi Jinping has made his ambitions very clear. And we will do nothing to stop it.

This does not require some massive invasion. Just bit by bit, Xi will tighten the screws. Threats will work just fine as the rest of the world abandons Taiwan.

It will be like Hong Kong. At first China will just demand a token governor be appointed, with only ceremonial powers, as symbolic recognition. Then they may give Taiwan a seat on the Chinese politburo, appointed by the Chinese government. Then closer police cooperation.

Taiwan will do what everyone does and self censor. Radicals that want to push back will be censored by the Taiwanese themselves. Bit by bit that governor will become more powerful.

Re:Free Taiwan is dead

[taiwanjohn]

At first China will just demand a token governor be appointed, with only ceremonial powers, as symbolic recognition.

This would be a non-starter in Taiwan. The people have always favored the "status-quo" (as opposed to outright independence) simply to avoid friction with the mainland. But they chafe at this sort of diplomatic isolation, such as participating in the Olympics as "Chinese Taipei". The more the PRC pushes, the more they push the Taiwanese people away. I find it difficult to imagine any sort of "unification" beyond a superficial "Greater-China Federation" agreement wherein PRC and ROC are co-equal partners. Anything that smacks of control from the mainland will be resoundingly rejected by the population.

I don't pretend to know how all this will work out in the long run, and I would be skeptical of anyone who claims to know.

Re:Free Taiwan is dead

[jrumney]

Taiwan is nothing like Hong Kong. It is a breakaway republic started by an exiled former government. Hong Kong was leased for a fixed period, and the handover back to China and gradual transition was planned all along.

Re:Free Taiwan is dead

[Lurks]

You don't seem to understand Taiwan and have misstated the situation.

The current government of Taiwan is a pro-independence government. It's a democracy, and these people were voted in. There's no chance of China appointing anyone, that's just not going to happen. It's easy to make the mistake. China has been so successful at telling everyone that Taiwan == China that people start to believe it, but it simply isn't true.

There is no plan for China to take over, there is no timetable. It is fundamentally not possible nor would the electorate accept any appointments by China.
They're also pragmatists and have no interest in provoking China. This is why the status quo continues.

However the PRC has essentially bribed or strong armed almost every nation on earth to avoid formal recognition of Taiwan as an independent country. This is shameful really, but money talks. This has real effects on Taiwan, like not being able to participate in international forums. However in other respects business carries on regardless of the word games. Countries can't have embassies in Taiwan, for example, but they have 'offices' that do exactly the same thing.

It would be nice to see some leadership, from the US maybe, in resolving this absurd situation. It could start by addressing the current issue (economic threats on airlines that describe Taiwan as a country), and ideally... by formally recognising Taiwan. Trump even alluded to that, but ... it was just a bit of anti-China rhetoric it seems.

Re:Free Taiwan is dead

[phantomfive]

It's interesting you mention Hong Kong, because that is really relevant here.

People in Taiwan were watching how Hong Kong got treated, and they didn't like it at all. If the Chinese government had treated Hong Kong better, then Taiwan would have been much more willing to join.....but now there is too much opposition to that viewpoint, because they can see what will happen.

To be clear, it isn't about economics or money: it's about freedom. The people in ROC see how Hong Kong has lost their freedoms, and they don't want to lose their own.

Disputed Zone

[AHuxley]

In Capitalist West Communism directs language use to you.

Soft Power

[Puls4r]

This is what is called excercising soft power. Soft power is developed over time through financial and political influence. It is easily lost through buffoonery, name calling, and ineffectiveness. China has soft power. They rarely threaten or comment without taking action. Their financial situation and power affects every country in the world.

Essentially the Chinese have learned the mantra "Speak softly and carry and big stick." American government has done just the opposite.

For instance - making comments like XXX will suffer consequences, or "our nukes are bigger than yours" are exactly the kind of threat that destroys soft power. They are threats that are rarely or never acted upon, and they undermine your credibility.

Our current administration has spent every last big of political capitol that the United States had left. No one is afraid of us. We are no longer the biggest dog in the room, and we continue to put our fingers in too many holes in the dyke rather than picking our battles carefully.

Local Customs

[pubwvj]

An American Airlines spokeswoman said in a statement: "Air travel is global business, and we abide by the rules in countries where we operate."

In some countries they require women to wear burkas so American Airlines is planning this for all their female stewardesses and pilots world-wide?

Re:Solution

[youngone]

What makes you think the US gives a toss about human rights?
Here's a quick list of human rights abusing dictators the US has installed or supported or both over the last 70 years or so: Franco in Spain
Suharto in Indonesia
Hussain in Iraq
Pahlavi in Iran
Pinochet in Chile
various Somozas in Nicaragua
Ubico & Castillo Armas in Guatemala (among others).
Marcos in Philippines
Frankly that's just off the top of my head without thinking about it too much.
If you think manufacturing is coming back to the US you don't understand how multinational corporations work.
But based on you wanting to nuke China I am pretty sure you don't understand much.

Two points...

[hyades1]

First of all, this is yet another example of supposed "Free World" corporations knuckling under to a totalitarian dictatorship because it's profitable to do so.

Perhaps less obvious is that in order to stay airworthy, the planes those airlines fly depend on cheap Chinese-made parts, and cut-rate labour in places like Singapore and Indonesia. Does anybody here believe an airline that stood up to China would continue to enjoy access to those lovely, cheap replacement parts? Would maintenance hubs like Singapore even pretend to stand up to China if they said Carrier X or Y was on its "shit list"?

Geolocation?

[sonamchauhan]

Entertainment companies trip over themselves to use geoblocking: Prime video, Netflix, even YouTube movie trailers are locked down by geography. How come airlines are so hesitant to use geolocation to identify the jurisdiction of whom they are serving.

Present Taiwan as a part of China in China (or wherever local laws demand). Present it as an independent country elsewhere. A Chinese national using aa.com when visiting Taipei should see 'Taipei, Taiwan'. When he's back in Beijing, aa.com should show him 'Taipei, China'

China is like, evil here?

[TiggertheMad]

This is probably where the saying, "All evil needs to triumph, is for good men to do nothing" is appropriate.

If the west doesn't draw a line in the sand and come down hard on Xi's ambitions, then I think you are 100% correct. And at the risk of turning this into yet another culture war thread between the left and right, I don't think that our current leader is capable of credibly resisting the Chinese government in any sort of meaningful fashion short of just emptying all the silos and hoping for the best. This is a situation that requires tact, wisdom, patience, and collaboration with allies.

Taiwan is fucked.

Re:Crystal ball

[blindseer]

If you think for one second that Trump would go to war with China over Taiwan, you're delusional.

A war with China? That should be a fun half hour.

First, he doesn't even know the difference between the two.

Trump owns his own airplane, which he's flown all over the world. You want to pretend that Trump doesn't know where these countries are? I'll admit that he's not the most educated man but I'm guessing he knows where these places are and how they do business.

Second, he'll follow the money, which is China.

I read about what he did to get Otto Warmbier home. When Trump heard about Warmbier being ill he basically called up North Korea and told them that he was sending a plane to come pick him up. There was no negotiation, there was a demand. North Korea folded, granted a pardon to Warmbier and allowed the plane to leave with him on board. That's not "following the money". It's also far more than Obama tried to do.

I have no idea what Trump might do. I'm guessing that he'd like to flatten some of these nations that have caused trouble for the USA for so long, but if it isn't his better judgement stopping him then it's his advisors.

If Trump was just following the money then he wouldn't be in a trade war with China right now. I'm not all that pleased that POTUS has such authority to effectively dictate the price of steel but that's an authority granted to Congress in the Constitution and Congress delegated some of this authority to POTUS. I'd like to see Congress get in the business of... well, doing their damned job.

That brings up another authority Congress delegated to POTUS, the ability to effectively enact a war without first getting permission from Congress. That was real funny hearing Congress making a bunch of noise on POTUS after POTUS waging war all over the world. At the same time Congress approved the budget to wage war, and did nothing to dial back the delegated authority of POTUS to continue waging war.

I've noticed that much of the world stopped laughing at the USA now that Trump is in the Oval Office. That's probably because they realize that Trump just might be crazy enough to wage a war on China.

Can't two play at this game?

[Solandri]

Can't all the free nations of the world demand that airlines list Taipei as "Taipei, Taiwan", or face repercussions which mirror whatever China does if they don't? Yes it puts the airlines in a lose-lose situation. But it'll leave them free to vote their conscience instead of knuckling under extortion.

Re:Crystal ball

[serviscope_minor]

I've noticed that much of the world stopped laughing at the USA now that Trump is in the Oval Office.

Um, I think the noticing lobe in your brain mighthave stopped working.