The Flourishing Business of Fake YouTube Views (nytimes.com)

An anonymous reader shares a report: Martin Vassilev makes a good living selling fake views on YouTube videos. Working from home in Ottawa, he has sold about 15 million views so far this year, putting him on track to bring in more than $200,000, records show. Mr. Vassilev, 32, does not provide the views himself. His website, 500Views.com, connects customers with services that offer views, likes and dislikes generated by computers, not humans. When a supplier cannot fulfill an order, Mr. Vassilev -- like a modern switchboard operator -- quickly connects with another. "I can deliver an unlimited amount of views to a video," Mr. Vassilev said in an interview. "They've tried to stop it for so many years, but they can't stop it. There's always a way around."

[...] Just as other social media companies have been plagued by impostor accounts and artificial influence campaigns, YouTube has struggled with fake views for years. The fake-view ecosystem of which Mr. Vassilev is a part can undermine YouTube's credibility by manipulating the digital currency that signals value to users. While YouTube says fake views represent just a tiny fraction of the total, they still have a significant effect by misleading consumers and advertisers.

Comments

Fraud

[Tulsa_Time]

How does Google get away with activities that would be called fraud in any other marketplace ?

Re:Fraud

[Anonymous Coward]

How is it fraud on Google's part? Google is arguably a victim here -- they are using the truth, to the best of their knowledge.

Re:Fraud

[Anonymous Coward]

Google will invest in the solution when ad revenues drop. Until then, what's their motive? One could even argue that a fake hyped video brings in marginal legit views that wouldn't have been there regardless.

Re:Fraud

[Anonymous Coward]

Google is a victim of better-looking numbers. How do they cope?!

Re:Fraud

[Anonymous Coward]

Right - how is this guy who has been outted on this Slashdot story not immediately arrested?

Re:Fraud

[jellomizer]

Well if a person gets enough view they monetize the channel. That means these ads are being played unnoticed and will need to pay the channel owner for the impressions.
However the people selling such ads will not see sales align with the advertising. Thus not go to Google.
Long term Google is better off treating their customers (the advertisers) well. Vs the quick scam.

It is google interest to stop these get rich quick people.

Re:Fraud

[tungstencoil]

The argument is that they ultimately benefit from it, or that they (or the market) believe that they do. Their product is the viewers and the views. If - in aggregate - there is a market belief that they provide more viewers, and that more viewers flock to their platform, they have more value. So they want to appear as if they're the victim, and that the problem is simultaneously small/contained and difficult to mitigate (but they're trying!), so as to position themselves for the most benefit with the least effort and least possible negative impact.

Re:Fraud

[Darinbob]

I'd be happy if Youtube just stopped paying for views. The quality of the videos would go up and we'd have fewer people making their careers from posting fluff and begging for subscriptions.

Re:Fraud

[Anonymous Coward]

How is it fraud on Google's part? Google is arguably a victim here -- they are using the truth, to the best of their knowledge.

No. Google is fully aware that there are viewbots. They choose to not do anything about it because they sell ad-space and more clicks means they can charge more for ads.

Admittedly my only source is anecdotal from a person who used to work with ads at Google and were told to not filter out the viewbots.

It is pretty clear that there is a profitable market for faking views so we know that Google isn't filtering out the bots.
Considering how much resources Google is putting into analyzing user behavior when it comes to ads I would find it very hard to believe that they aren't able to detect them.

The thing is, the entire market is rotten. Viewbots on Twitch is also a thing and they also won't do anything about it, because if they did then they wouldn't be as competitive compared to those who do allow viewbots.
The people buying ads aren't going to go with the place where they only get half the number of views for the same money. They might have some notion that some of the views are fake, but as far as they know the more expensive space also has fake views.

Re:Fraud

[sabbede]

I don't see how being defrauded is to their benefit. Not only would they be paying people for fake views, advertisers can demand lower prices to offset those fake views.

Re:Fraud

[sabbede]

Was that before or after they started paying posters for popular content?

Also, think about it from the advertiser's side - If you pay to have your ad run 1,000,000 times, but find out that 10% of those were fake, you're going to demand a 10% discount so you aren't throwing money away advertizing to bots.

I think ignoring bots could have worked in Google's favor at first, but as the people paying to run ads catch on it ceases to work in Google's favor and starts to cost them money.

Re:Fraud

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, poor Google. What ever will they do with their hundreds of billions of dollars, while demonetising anyone who doesn't have a large company or already popular channel? They HAD to resort to not allowing small and fledgling content creators to make anything off of their videos (but of course Google still benefits from them).

I say too bad. If fake views kills YouTube, then nothing of value will have been lost because Google already killed the platform themselves.

Re:Fraud

[Anonymous Coward]

And what are you proposing exactly? Subscription based channel? Like Vimeo or YouTube Red (or whatever they name it these days)?

Re:Fraud

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would he be? He's not doing anything illegal. Or are you one of those idiotic, crybaby SJWs who think that everyone you disagree with is breaking the law?

Re:Fraud

[Daralantan]

They'd just beg for Patreon and do more ads for Dollarshave club, Harry's, lootbox, etc etc etc instead. (my favorite though is when they literally will make a video that is just a commercial of them opening a lootbox, then giving their code for it.... while also having that video monetized)

"YouTube's credibility"

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh man, thanks. I needed a good laugh.

Re:"YouTube's credibility"

[Anonymous Coward]

Bad phrasing: Credibility of youtube content vs credibility of youtube stats

Re:Setup?

[RickyShade]

That's right, because there is no such thing as view/click generator sites that are used by everyone to hype up their content.

Re:Setup?

[ArylAkamov]

It really wouldn't be surprising at this point.

Ancient, obvious strategy.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fake views are a thing since before YouTube or even Googke even existed. I remember guys at every big dotcom bubble era company setting up bots at their home computers in 1999.

Then ad companies started to demand beacons and track IP adresses. After which botnet services sprung up. Often owned by those very employees. (One was by a "friend" of mine, and used all CounterStrike servers, since he had a super-popular CS mod.)

I am not the least bit surprised that YT views are as fake all all reviews on all shopping sites and IMDB since forever.

(In the past, it helped to train an expert system / bayesian filter, to only count those who actually made real comments. Today, the bots make better comments than the so-called real humans.)

Duh.

[Anonymous Coward]

While YouTube says fake views represent just a tiny fraction of the total,

Sure, because they can only count detected fake views. Which brings us back to the original claim of the fake view seller, namely that there is always a way around detection.

This would never happen to voting

[mi]

"They've tried to stop it for so many years, but they can't stop it. There's always a way around."

This would never happen to elections. There is absolutely no need to burden the voters with having to prove their identity and eligibility, and anyone telling you otherwise is a hateful racist.

Re:This would never happen to voting

[mi]

What kind of idiot would try to manipulate an election by getting humans to vote one by one when the results can be manipulated by the thousand?

You don't need "thousands". Al Franken got into Senate with (officially) 312 votes — and this allowed the passing of Obamacare.

Earlier, Bush won Florida with a similarly sub-thousand majority — also dramatically affecting the entire nation's life... A few is enough.

Re:This would never happen to voting

[citylivin]

I guess you are trying to make some racist point, but perhaps instead of picking on black people like always, you americans could switch back to paper ballots like many other countries use (canada) which are pretty damn secure and verifiable.

It's the computers in your system that are the problem. Personally i believe that americans really are that stupid to legitimately elect trump and the russians probably didn't have to hack much, as americans are more than happy to make poor choices without any outside influence (For examples see: electing ronald regan, electing and re-electing george w bush, lack of gun control, lack of universal heathcare, letting obama et al kill indiscriminately with drones, iraq war, etc...).

Re:This would never happen to voting

[mi]

I guess you are trying to make some racist point

Am I really? Would you care to speculate, which point that might be?

instead of picking on black people like always

Did you know, strawmen are racist?

americans really are that stupid

Now, curiously, here is an actual racist statement, but that's off-topic, of course.

Re:This would never happen to voting

[JoshuaZ]

Let's leave aside the difference between having a human physically show up and having bots click on a website link. Let's leave aside also that the types of ID required might be aimed at certain demographics, like in Texas where a gun license is an acceptable ID to vote but a student ID from a state school is not an ok ID https://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2015/jun/26/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-says-you-can-vote-texas-concealed-/. Let's put aside also that North Carolina Republicans deliberately optimized their voting ID system to minimize African-American turnout https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/29/the-smoking-gun-proving-north-carolina-republicans-tried-to-disenfranchise-black-voters/. Putting all of that aside why are so many people focused on in-person voter fraud when the evidence and consensus of actual experts is that absentee ballot fraud is an actual and serious problem especially in local elections?

Re:This would never happen to voting

[Anonymous Coward]

In voting, excluding someone who is eligible to vote but for some onerous procedural requirement is just as bad as including someone who is not eligible.

You need to design your security to achieve a balance between these two factors. To a first approximation, the number of instances of the two types of errors should be roughly equal.

The hateful racist part is claiming that there's a huge difference between these two wrongs. A single person registering to vote incorrectly (to pick some it-really-happened innocent examples, because their parents never told them they weren't born in the U.S., or because a clerk at the DMV didn't listen when someone was renewing a driver's license in a motor-voter state) is a Complete Disaster for Democracy Deserving the Harshest Possible Punishment but excluding thousands from voter rolls because they didn't file the right change-of-address paperwork the last time their slumlord evicted them is No Problem Whatsoever.

Bollocks. A few actual live flesh-and-blood people improperly casting one vote each is Not A Problem. It's bulk fraud that's a grave concern, either outright ballot forgery, miscounting, or crowds of people voting in a dozen polling places each.

The U.S. historically, and plenty of countries today, don't demand voter identification at all, and allow pretty much any warm body who walks into the polling place to vote. Modern usage prevents double-voting with the simple expedient of indelible dye.

Re:This would never happen to voting

[Anonymous Coward]

Just being pedantic - "american" isn't a race, it's not even a nationality. Technically any resident of North or South America could be considered "American", though colloquially it's used to identify a citizen of the United States.

It's certainly a prejudiced statement - just not racially charged.

“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.” -- George Carlin

Obvious

[Anonymous Coward]

What, you thought those fake and disturbing kids videos got twelve million views apiece because people actually wanted to watch them?

To users?

[Anonymous Coward]

...digital currency that signals value to users.

More to advertisers whom are the ones being scammed.

And definitely not to the viewers, whom of course are not even the youtube users but their cattle.

Google and Youtube are broken

[m00sh]

Google's performance has gone down over the years. It used to bring up better results but now it's mostly from the same sites and it's 99% the same as bing or any other search engine. Forum threads, blog posts don't come up often and it's mostly results from corporate websites.

Youtube also has another weird problem. It's recommendation has gotten absolutely click baitey only. It used to suggest really interesting videos but now all it suggests are click baits from a handful of content creators.

Google and Youtube ranking has been gamed way too much now, and Google in turn have really neutered their algorithms.

Re:Google and Youtube are broken

[Anonymous Coward]

Google search doesn't even return relevant results anymore but more results that may look like what you ask. Soon just expect that an AI will generate the results on the fly SCIgen style.

Now they even remove keywords from your query to get more irrelevant matches from higher scored sites.

Also the +"" or intext: tags are basically ignored and worse if you insist they start throwing captchas at you.

Unfortunately you will be one of those few people who notice, may be poining it out a couple more will also realize, like when you point out about bad kerning.

Re:Google and Youtube are broken

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree.
Always when I look for something and I get weird results or not what I wanted in the first pages I notice that I am using another search engine.(bing, duckduckgo etc).
It happens because I have a lot of browsers installed and most have different default search engines.

Re:Google and Youtube are broken

[Anonymous Coward]

Curious because duckduckgo is pretty much just a self-proclaimed non-tracking Google frontend.

Re: Google and Youtube are broken

[Anonymous Coward]

No it isn't. DuckDuckGo uses plenty of backends. Not just google.

Re:Google and Youtube are broken

[CrashNBrn]

Click on the Hamburger menu, select "Not Interested," click on "Tell Me Why," select an appropriate reason "Don't Like," or the last reason which is available 10-20% of the time, which are videos recommended due to some other Watched Video|Topic|Subscribed Channel.

Do the same with a small section of your viewed History - it's not that difficult to fix if you bother.

Re:Google and Youtube are broken

[Waccoon]

Hardly surprising, since it appears that bookmarks and direct URLs are a thing of the past, and with things like Awesome Bar being rammed down our throats. Type in almost any noun and the first thing that shows up is a link to the Wikipedia article, which is probably where most people wanted to go in the first place.

Time to rethink monetization

[Vermonter]

I am amazed the internet still values "views" and "clicks". Until advertisers stop placing value on such stupid metrics, this is going to be a problem. They should be focusing on actual sales and paying people based on that.

If you had a car dealership where instead of commission for sales, the sales people were paid based on how many people came in to look at cars, you bet there would be rampant fraud there as well.

Re:Time to rethink monetization

[Comrade Ogilvy]

It seems like an insolvable problem to me, because the trust issue goes both ways.

As a view/click provider, I have no way of knowing what your actual sales are. For large public companies, we can work something out with two teams of lawyers. But for a small fish, this does not make sense unless there is some "trustworthy enough" neutral third party standing between us like Amazon/Ebay.

The way it is now, you do not even bid for placement. You bid for views or clicks, and placement on webpages is decided by magic algorithms that determine statistically whether you are a client worth putting much effort into serving. The quality provide is the quality provided, and you have to make your bid, with appropriate limits and time frame, understanding that it worked out last week but you might be screwed this week by "poor quality" views/clicks. Heck, I am sure you can monitor the value provided each day or hour, and adjust your bids (or cancel) as your sales data tells you would be wise.

Re:Time to rethink monetization

[Vermonter]

Nonsense, websites can see where traffic is coming from. If I click on an ad on youtube, the advertiser knows I just came from youtube. That website can then see if you buy anything. Yes, the user can mess this up by rejecting cookies or whatever the website uses, but the majority of users aren't going to do that.

Re:Time to rethink monetization

[Comrade Ogilvy]

How does YouTube know exactly what was purchased on a vendor website, if the vendor chooses to cheat?

interesting

[s0lar]

Well, the dynamics of this space are interesting - you have the normal human eye balls that consume the media and are recorded as "views", "likes", "+1s", etc. These stats drive the ads - their ranking, prices, shows as well as various charges/payments made against/to clients. All known, expected and documented. (all of that driven by Google's internal infrastructure)

Now enter 3rd-party software running on hundreds (thousands?) of hosts, programmatically doing what was initially deemed to be "for human eyes only". The economics go to shit and so the programs are now trying to tell humans apart from programs, while the other side is pretending to be human.

This entire thing looks like the never-ending "adblock" discussion, but elevated to the next level. While I have a strong option on the old topic, this new thing is obviously a lot more nuanced. There are probably fake/robotic Google accounts in play, a bunch of AWS instances and may be even a botnet - none of that is cool. Yet, sticking it to the Man (using software tools) is kinda cool.

Car reviews are flooded with auto generated videos

[BrookHarty]

Trying to look at new cars reviews on youtube is a PITA, a large portion are text readers reading off a the same blog. Same goes for reviews on appliances, when I tried to search on air conditioners. I report them, they never go away, youtube is slacking hard allowing this crap to ruin youtube reviews. And the fake views are promoting these fake videos.

Its a circle of fakeness.

Re:Setup?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's right, because there is no such thing as view/click generator sites that are used by everyone to hype up their content.

Yep, and no respectable news publication would ever put someone on their editorial board after knowing they posted racist crap like "#CancelBlackMen".

It ACTUALLY does not happen

[aepervius]

See there is a difference to say in a cynic ton pretending to do sarcasm "This would never happen to elections. There is absolutely no need to burden the voters with having to prove their identity and eligibility, and anyone telling you otherwise is a hateful racist." and the ACTUALITY of it happening.

When checked the occurrence of true voter willful fraud is incredibly minimal, a few voters out of millions *at most* (most story you hear about people registered at two places are people having moved on but forgot to de-register at the old place , and there is no fraud, they only vote once) . But some people pretend it happens very often and want to impose verification which are very difficult to pass for poor (as in no money) voters. See such assholes long saw the correlation between those mostly poor demographic and a certain political arty, so what is the great thing about pretend-voter-fraud laws for them is that it kicks out those voters and so enable to skew to vote toward THEIR party. e.g. exclude homeless or people working 2*40 jobs the one because they have no address, the other because they have no time left to pass through hoops. Disenfranchise enough people and you can skew election.

here is the thing though : voter fraud is incredibly rare and negligible. You want to pretend otherwise ? Then advance evidence, like peer review or verifiable study. Go ahead. All those which exists out there all shows voter fraud to be extremely negligible.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[DNS-and-BIND]

If those that demand no Voter Identification were concerned for the poor, they'd facilitate the acquisition of ID, not seek ways to avoid it. After all, what's the best job you ever had where you didn't need to identify yourself?

Only ONE party disapproves of measures to make our elections secure, and also your president lied to you. Voter ID is NOT a function of America's "racist past". EVERY COUNTRY THAT'S not a dictatorship has some form of assuring that the person voting is entitled to. EVERY COUNTRY.

NAACP requires photo ID to attend anti-voter-ID protest march

Indian citizens have voter ID and they are buttfuck poor, much poorer than the worst of the American poor.

California liberals allege voter fraud, demand voter ID. Democrats think voter identification laws are important for their party elections, but think they're not important when it comes to our elections.

Maxine Waters, an advocate against voter ID, requires an ID to attend her town hall meeting.

Hillary Clinton's Book Tour. Valid Photo ID Required. Suppressing minority turnout, or is this one of those things that's OK when Democrats do it but wrong when anyone else does it?

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Anonymous Coward]

I applaud you for a reasoned and measured response to mi's flamboyant trolling. It is rampant on the 2018 slashdot and has been for a decade. I have no patience for his brand of bullshit, and would rather take him and the rest of his neo-nazi pals out and put them offline for good.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[mi]

When checked

When checked

a few voters out of millions *at most*

Yep, sure. YouTube would've liked you to believe the same thing.

very difficult to pass for poor

Presenting identification is not difficult. Or are you going to claim, alcohol and tobacco-sellers are all racists?

See such assholes long saw [...]

Yep, "assholes". Or — just as I said — "hateful racists".

they have no time left to pass through hoops

What "hoops"?

voter fraud is incredibly rare and negligible

How would you know? It has never been properly investigated...

Then advance evidence

You just made a claim, that it is incredibly rare and negligible. The burden of proof is on you...

All those which exists out there all shows voter fraud to be extremely negligible.

You've cited surprisingly few sources for a claim this bold...

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Anonymous Coward]

You made the original claim so you must provide evidence, troll.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[mi]

You made the original claim

No, I didn't, coward.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Mashiki]

You're saying that the poor are too stupid to get their voter-ID card, and the "depressed minorities via disenfranchisement" are too incompetent to get a voter-ID card. Good old bigotry and racism of low expectations.

So is Canada a racist country because you MUST present ID in order to vote? Or is this issue only racist because it directly correlates to the US, thus any form of security of elections is automatically racist, because again those people are too stupid, or too poor to get voter ID.

Re: It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Anonymous Coward]

If those that demand no Voter Identification were concerned for the poor, they'd facilitate the acquisition of ID,

So it turns out they have done so, or don't you know about the reach-out efforts to get ID for people like VoteRiders or Operation ID? Or perhaps you don't know how places like New York City, California, or Massachusetts are creating ID systems for people to use?

Not to mention the lawsuits against states like Pennsylvania which mysteriously failed to comply with its own stated policies. You knkw, when the federal judge documented how incompetent the Commonwealth was.

Which forced them to instruct all the DMV employees who lied to citizens requesting ID that they were to give correct information.

Then we have situations like North Carolina where the Republican state legislators were on record as specifically seeking ID that weren't held by minorities.

Not to mention Kansas, where the Secretary of State got found in contempt for his fraudulent misrepresentations about voters.

Why if ID is important, we don't have the government obligated to provide it? Why isn't it their duty?

Why does the government slack off? And why do so many Republicans go out of their way to be racist and partisan about it?

Why did that supposed Voter Integrity Commission just disband?

Maybe it is because you just want to foment dissent?

Re: It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Anonymous Coward]

It has never been properly investigated...

You just made a claim. The burden of proof is on you. All you have to do is show us your evidence.

Re: It ACTUALLY does not happen

[mi]

You just made a claim. The burden of proof is on you. All you have to do is show us your evidence.

I take it back.

I am unaware of this ever having been properly investigated. See? The rest of my argument stays, whereas yours falls apart if you rephrase it like this.

Which is why you have to cite evidence — or rephrase it... Still waiting.

Re: It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Anonymous Coward]

You're saying that the poor are too stupid to get their voter-ID card, and the "depressed minorities via disenfranchisement" are too incompetent to get a voter-ID card.

No, we're blaming the government. Check out the lawsuits. They keep refusing to provide ID.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Scroatzilla]

It's apparently not so easy to investigate voter fraud, at least at the federal level. All it does is generate lawsuits... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/0...

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[mi]

No, the poor are forced to work inflexible schedules

You need to offer the same proof of identity and eligibility In order to work legally, as would be required to participate in elections. You've just debunked yourself, coward.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Anonymous Coward]

You just proved that you are an idiot. Unless school IDs, report cards, hospital/daycare/nursery records, and every other document accepted for I-9 authorization are also accepted for your theoretical voter ID scheme there are gaps creating only excuse for disenfranchising legitimate voters.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Ichijo]

You're saying that the poor are too stupid to get their voter-ID card, and the "depressed minorities via disenfranchisement" are too incompetent to get a voter-ID card.

You are the first person in this thread to call them such hurtful names.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Anonymous Coward]

When getting a voter ID card in the US does not entail hours taken out of a day and travel that is extremely burdensome to someone without access to a car, then I'll start listening to your argument.

Until then, you're basically saying, "everyone can take time off work and stand in a long line to get their voter ID card. And if they can't, they aren't citizens." Unless there is significant voter fraud going on, I don't understand why you would insist on defending that position.

Re: It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Anonymous Coward]

You truly are an idiot.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[mi]

Yes, all of those prove identity. The eligibility can be confirmed trivially from the I-9 form. If having to obtained this documentation for work is acceptable, why is it such an outrage to demand the same for voting?

It is not, of course — you only foam at the mouth, because you suspect (as I do), that your party benefits from the fraud.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Darinbob]

Canada does not have the same history of institutionalized racism that we had in the South. Many US states used various election rules as an attempt to restrict voting by minorities - this is basic grade school history. Such as requirements to have paid a poll tax (except if your grandfather voted), literacy tests, and so forth. The states pushing hardest for voter ID laws just happen to those that also engaged in disenfranchisement of minorities during segregation. To many people, any election move by a former unapalogetic segregationist state is viewed with high suspicion.

So based on history, any attempt to have a mandatory fee to vote or obtain a voting token is suspicious, or anything resembling past literacy tests, and so forth. Anyone who is surprised that minorities are wary of such moves has clearly not studied history.

Voting is a right, not a privilege.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Darinbob]

No, most jobs only require a social security number. Sometimes they require a social security card. They may ask for a driver's license for jobs that require driving. You may need a picture ID for some jobs that require an extra measure of security. But in general, it is rare to require a picture ID to get a job. For proof of identification there are other methods that may be used.

Re: It ACTUALLY does not happen

[mi]

https://i.imgur.com/TYcqpRZ.jp...

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[mi]

No, most jobs only require a social security number

The above is a demonstrable falsehood:

All employers must complete and retain Form I-9, Employment Eligibility Verification, for every person they hire for employment after Nov. 6, 1986, in the U.S. as long as the person works for pay or other type of payment.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Pascoea]

To add on, for those who are too lazy to click your link: The employer filling out the "identification" part of said I9 is required to authenticate the eligibility of the employee in two ways: Proof of identity, and proof of eligibility to work. The most common pair being a drivers license and social security card, some documents serve both purposes. The employer is required to verify this information and fill out the identification section of the I9, under penalty of perjury.

For proof of identification there are other methods that may be used.

GP is correct, other forms of ID are acceptable... such as a passport. However, the reason most people use a drivers license and SS card is because those are generally the easiest to obtain.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Anonymous Coward]

What's happened in the past is voter ID laws are passed, then offices that issue voter IDs (typically the DMV) are shut down in districts that lean democratic. So they'll close half the DMVs in the city - drive wait times through the roof. Shockingly people who are working class or lower struggle to spend 6 hours waiting in line for a voter ID. Meanwhile suburban DMVs, where the population leans republican, you can get your IDs in 15 minutes.

So no, it's not about poor people being stupid, it's about republicans hating democracy and being corrupt.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[serviscope_minor]

Wow, you really don't know what "racist" means. This explains why you are so permanently confused.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Darinbob]

Yes, you need to fill out that form but you don't need a picture ID. A driver's license certainly makes it simpler but there are other ways to reasonably prove your identity.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Darinbob]

Social Security number is generally required because that is needed for tax purposes. It's not supposed to be used for identification.

The SS card itself may not always be required. Not sure about today though, but in the past I did not have a physical card and still got employed.

Re: It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Anonymous Coward]

So what is your awareness or lack thereof based upon?

You're going to have to show your ignorance is curable. You haven't even bothered to define your conditions for a proper investigation.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[mi]

you don't need a picture ID

You are the first to use the word "picture" in this lengthy thread. Fight your strawmen of your own making yourself.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Pascoea]

Social Security number is generally required because that is needed for tax purposes. It's not supposed to be used for identification.

In this instance it's not being used for identification purposes, it's being used to establish the eligibility to work. source

The SS card itself may not always be required.

If you mean that there other acceptable documents, yes, you are correct. If you mean that I, as an employer, don't need the to see the physical document? By signing the form I am attesting that I have physically inspected the card. And I'm personally liable if I sign it without the card being there. I assume there are employers that are willing to take that risk, but as a contractor hiring 100s of people from all over the country that wasn't a risk I was willing to take. Our policy was no SS card (or other legally acceptable document, obviously), you got shown the gate.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Anonymous Coward]

why is it such an outrage to demand the same for voting?

Voting is an obligation upon the state, that's why it's the one burdened with providing access to voting. Doing so in a blatantly discriminatory fashion, well, that's what leads to lawsuits.

Like in Pennsylvania.

Guaranteed if the government went around restricting the rights of legal citizens to work, there would be lawsuits.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Darinbob]

The comparison in this thread was with voter ID cards, and the suggestion that since you need an ID to get a job therefore it's no big deal to have the same for voting. I'm just pointing out that they're not the same thing.

Re: It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Anonymous Coward]

Lawsuits that easily find a discriminatory pattern (which is itself unlawful) and even a discriminatory intent in many states.

Maybe Republicans should think very hard about being openly and admittedly racist.

Well, maybe not.

Re: It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Anonymous Coward]

ID laws go to a level that isn't necessary.

1. register to vote
2. Create list of names per area
3. people rock up and get their name signed off (verbal no proof of id required). If your name turns up crossed off multiple times people start asking questions.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[terrycarlino]

Because voter fraud does happen. It's not an accident that places like Chicago are have such a reputation for voter fraud that late night talk show hosts make jokes about it.

It becomes even more important in an age where elections are coming down to fractions of a percent and the change of 1 vote in a 1000 can change the election small numbers of fraudulent votes can make a difference.

Check the Wikipedia article on close elections. There are instances where a difference of 1 or 2 votes made a difference. Many more when a few hundred votes carry the day. Lets be clear here. There are two situations which are occurring which benefit Democrats. That is undocumented non-citizens illegally voting and legally disenfranchised felons illegally voting. Voter ID, that would prevent those populations from illegally voting would hurt Democrats and help Republicans. The reason Democrat fight voter ID so strongly.

One can't buy cigarettes or liquor in most places without ID, but somehow having it to vote is burdensome.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[terrycarlino]

Proof.

You can maintain anything is true, but people don't have to believe your unfounded assertions just because you make them.

Re: It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not racism. Why do you people always jump to racism? It's purely that democrats market like mad towards the "black vote" (a voter category conjured by democratic fear mongering towards black communities, I should mention), and republicans refuse to offer the "quick fix" solutions democrats have (give more money to minorities because it always works every time). So lacking a way to target the black vote with such saccharine promises, republican campaigns work to optimize their odds in other ways. How do you get better winning odds without directly gaining more votes yourself? By reducing your opponent's turnout.

No, republicans typically don't care about poor black voters, but it's not racism. It's market segment analysis and optimization.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Mashiki]

Canada does not have the same history of institutionalized racism that we had in the South. Many US states used various election rules as an attempt to restrict voting by minorities - this is basic grade school history.

No? I guess you never heard of the part here in Canada, where we genocided natives harder then the US. Allowed the Catholics to put them through reeducation camps, and forcibly sterilized many of them to keep their population under control.

And yet...those natives still have ID which they can vote with. Your fundamental ignorance of another country is palpable.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Mashiki]

You are the first person in this thread to call them such hurtful names.

There's no hurtful names. The author is promoting the idea that these supposed people are too stupid, or too ignorant to be able to get some form of identification. This is also the mantra of the left, when they argue against it.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Mashiki]

Wow, you really don't know what "racist" means. This explains why you are so permanently confused.

This coming from the person who thinks that a fbi.gov link is malware is kinda funny. Then again, I seem to remember you're a bit on the slow side and think that racism can only mean "privilege+power"

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Mashiki]

When getting a voter ID card in the US does not entail hours taken out of a day and travel that is extremely burdensome to someone without access to a car, then I'll start listening to your argument.

You know how long it took me to get my 2nd ID card? It was called an "age of majority" card 6 minutes, plus 11 days waiting in the mail. If you can walk down to the liquor store to get boozed up, you can walk the extra block to the post office and get one.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Anonymous Coward]

A quick google search revealed over 100 documented cases of exactly this happening, in over 40 states. Perhaps you should learn how to do research before demanding others perform 7th grade tasks for you.

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[Anonymous Coward]

Way to move the goalposts when you're obviously and provably wrong :)

Re:It ACTUALLY does not happen

[serviscope_minor]

Malware? What? I see it took you a good one reply to simply start inventing shit about me and attacking it. The only logical move for you here is to start your hallucinations before I even reply and preemptively defend against attacks you invented.

Re: In other words: I'm a proud psychopath

[TimMD909]

I'm sure the world would be better place if we only had enough compassionate people like you to lead us. I'm sure you have a final solution that'd be great.

Re:Setup?

[jellomizer]

Or is this the argument for liberal content?

I tend to avoid politics on You Tube because I will get flagged as Slightly Left thus get crazy left videos, or slightly right and get Right Wing Nuts.

However on both sides of the view points the argument goes like this.

Try to pretend that their view is moderate.
Bring up their strongest points first. Give some credence to the opposing side good point (Not the strongest but about 2/3 from the top)
Compare your strongest points to to the weakest points of the opposing side.
Bring in some obscure example showing failure in the opposing side.
Use this example to discredit all the opposing sides point.
Now this is done, go full force on your most idiotic ideas.

I am now jumping to the obscure example:
I remember seeing a video on Netflix about Dragons under documentary's.
It started off explaining the commonality of dragons across cultures. Pointing out that the common belief is the appearance of animals such as Alligators and crocodiles. Then stated how how these animals didn't live in many of the cultures climates. Moved to showing similarity with dinosaurs... Then they explained how sometimes how the radioactive dating isn't always consistent as found in this one location. Thus Man was alive during dinosaurs, and Dragons were just around. I turned off the documentary after they started quoting the bible, and using to disprove evolution and creationism.

I am sure for some people this would had pushed them down the sliding scope to follow their idealism. Sure the concept of Dragons are cool, but tying them to creationism. Just got stupid.

I have seen many other videos on different topic that follow that same path. Get people hooked on a few good arguments, then slope it down to idocracy.

Re:Registered /.ers review of the Win64 model

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the most beautifully Meta post of the day!

Re:Car reviews are flooded with auto generated vid

[DogDude]

"... car reviews on youtube"? What? Why would that be a thing? That doesn't make any sense at all.

Monetization Model Gone Wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Current monetization models place value on the opportunity to connect with a potential customer. Any time the outcome is measured by something completely intangible (i.e. it has no actual value and isn't an actual thing), there will be rampant fraud. If I am a marketer and you pay me based on how many people call your business on the phone, regardless of results, then it will be easy for me to steal lots of money from you.

Monetization needs to be based on closed transactions where there is actual economic activity to derive the reward from. If I'm a marketer and I only get paid if you get paid, that changes the game completely, and I must generate actual sales for you and not just 'traffic.'

Re: In other words: I'm a proud psychopath

[Anonymous Coward]

Can we do the same to Trump?

A lot of adverts aren't there to make sales

[rsilvergun]

they're either branding or they're political ads. I get ads for HBO making sure I know what HBO is. There's no sales pitch. No "Call to Action". Just a vague 7 second advert about HBO to make sure I know they exist. I got Coke ads until the White Supremacists scared them off. And don't get me started on political ads. I subscribe to a raft of left wing channels so I get bombarded with Praguer U ads (which confused the hell out of me until I learned that Praguer U is not a university, it's a right wing think tank/propaganda mill).

Online advertising doesn't work well to drive sales. What it does do well is make sure you're thinking positively about a given product line.

Re:Car reviews are flooded with auto generated vid

[CMYKjunkie]

....Its a circle of fakeness.

It's -- technically -- a circle-jerk of fakeness

Re:Car reviews are flooded with auto generated vid

[Anonymous Coward]

This is why.

Monetization Gone Wrong for Who?

[Anonymous Coward]

Good luck with that with Google, Friendsbook and the like.

You won't be convincing anytime soon neither new nor old MBAs running the ad companies for the final victims which are happily installed in the past century TV/music model.

It ACTUALLY HAS happened!

[Okian Warrior]

Voter fraud actually does happen.

In the recent elections, 6500 voters in NH were "non-resident" voters, using same-day registration.

(In NH you can register on the day of voting, and you don't need to be a resident - only that you are in the process of moving. Basically you "pinky swear" that you will be a NH resident real soon, and they let you vote.)

Of the 6540 people who voted as non-resident, only about 1000 of these actually moved to NH.

The difference between the Republican and Democratic senate election was about 1000 votes.

Neighboring states are predominately democratic, so with a statistical certainty the non-resident vote changed the NH senator from an "R" to a "D" this last election.

This really happened, voter fraud flipped a senate seat, and that senator does not properly represent the interests of her state.

Also, at least 196 of those non-resident voters have voted in more than one state.

We totally need voter ID to prevent abuse.

Re:It ACTUALLY HAS happened!

[Anonymous Coward]

From the wikipedia link:

"He made the allegations based on a report by the New Hampshire House of Representatives saying that of the 6,540 voters who had registered to vote on Election Day, only 1,014 of those voters had obtained a New Hampshire drivers license by August 30 of the following year. The Washington Post was able to quickly contact 3 such voters who said that they were college students and kept the drivers license from their home state.[97]"

Not sure the "with a statistical certainty" stands up in my reading. It *may* be as you allege, but the WP ( could be a biased source ) contacted three voters in the "illegitimate voter" pool, they were college students and did not get NH drivers licenses. 3 out of 1014? Could be that ll 1011 others were not legitimate. But using "didnt get a NH DL" as your mark that they moved there is not a great mark. Anyone who was a college student might not bother getting an NH DL. Someone who moved there, but didnt own a car would not get one. Some may have delayed getting a DL, as going and standing in line at the DMV isnt terribly appealing.

My assessment, you have some more work to do to prove voter fraud.

Re: It ACTUALLY HAS happened!

[Anonymous Coward]

Voter fraud actually does happen.

Yes, like the North Carolina voter who deliberately voted for her dead mother, and which you refused to demand she be prosecuted.

(In NH you can register on the day of voting, and you don't need to be a resident - only that you are in the process of moving. Basically you "pinky swear" that you will be a NH resident real soon, and they let you vote.)

You seem to be confusing voter ID with residency requirements.

Of the 6540 people who voted as non-resident, only about 1000 of these actually moved to NH.

Proof?

This really happened, voter fraud flipped a senate seat, and that senator does not properly represent the interests of her state.

Proof?

Also, at least 196 of those non-resident voters have voted in more than one state.

Wow, so what? I've voted in three states.

Or did you forget that it is legal to move?

We totally need voter ID to prevent abuse.

Not one of your allegations relates to voter ID. Sorry.

Re:It ACTUALLY HAS happened!

[Anonymous Coward]

I love watching Okian Warrior get destroyed by his own links :) It's like you guys never learn that people will read your links (which you obviously haven't read or didn't understand, or else you wouldn't use evidence that directly refutes the point you're trying to make).

And another day passes, and the percentage of right wingers in STEM jobs has now slipped to 18.4% from 19.7%. Thanks for self selecting out of the good jobs!

Just blow ads/trackers/infectors away

[Anonymous Coward]

I rethought it via APK Hosts File Engine 2.0++ 64-bit for Linux & BSD h t t p : / / a p k . i t - m a t e . c o . u k / A P K H o s t s F i l e E n g i n e F o r L i n u x . z i p (remove spaces between characters & download).

Yields more security/speed/reliability/anonymity vs. any SINGLE solution (99% of threats use hostnames vs. IP addresses most firewalls use) more efficiently/FASTER + NATIVELY 4 less!

(Vs. "Bolt on 'MoAr' illogic-logic" competitors slowing you, hosts speed you up 2 ways (adblocks + hardcodes u spend most time @) vs. competition loaded w/ security bugs (DNS/AntiVir) + overheads (messagepass ('souled-out' to advertiser addons) + filtering drivers) & their complexity leads to exploitation) + protects vs. script trackers & ads + DNS requestlog tracking

* ONLY 1 of its kind in GUI on Linux!

Better vs. Windows model in speed/efficiency/merge.

APK

P.S.=> Protects vs. trackers/ads/DNS reques tracking/botnets/malware downloads/email malcious payloads... apk

Re: In other words: I'm a proud psychopath

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm compassionate towards everyone, except psychopaths. They are like cancer. Would you feel compassion towards your tumor when the time would come to extract it, zap it with gamma rays or poison it with chemotherapy ?

You are the cause

[DrYak]

Youtube also has another weird problem. It's recommendation has gotten absolutely click baitey only. It used to suggest really interesting videos but now all it suggests are click baits from a handful of content creators.

And the main culprit for that is your own human brain.

Youtube mostly uses machine learning nowadays for its recommendation system.
Automatic systems designed to increase the time spent online watching, so that Google can earn more money.
The AI powering Youtube autonomously learn that showing you video A instead of Video B (given that you've watched X, Y, Z) is more likely to keep you around.

And due to how human brains work, it *happens* that video A is going to be click baitey because that's what works the best at attracting humans attention.

The AI is simply independently rediscovering and learning on its own what has been studied since a long time regarding, e.g. , content on the TV that attracts attention (answer : emotions, specially violent ones).

Re:You are the cause

[m00sh]

Youtube also has another weird problem. It's recommendation has gotten absolutely click baitey only. It used to suggest really interesting videos but now all it suggests are click baits from a handful of content creators.

And the main culprit for that is your own human brain.

Youtube mostly uses machine learning nowadays for its recommendation system. Automatic systems designed to increase the time spent online watching, so that Google can earn more money. The AI powering Youtube autonomously learn that showing you video A instead of Video B (given that you've watched X, Y, Z) is more likely to keep you around.

And due to how human brains work, it *happens* that video A is going to be click baitey because that's what works the best at attracting humans attention.

The AI is simply independently rediscovering and learning on its own what has been studied since a long time regarding, e.g. , content on the TV that attracts attention (answer : emotions, specially violent ones).

I wish that was true.

No matter how many times I ask it not to show me the "top 10 of blah blah blah", it keeps showing up.

Youtube's algorithm is compromised. Why does stupid stuff like "top 10 actors who did cartwheels in movies" (something I made up) show up? I don't care. I even actively say I'm not interested and a few weeks later there are more of the same.

It used to recommend music that I might like from the music videos I'd watched previously. Those are gone too. A lot of them were live shows and I suspect there was dubious copyright involved.

It used to recommend talks based on conference talks that I had watched previously. Those are gone. I spend quite a bit of time watching class lectures that professors have put up and it never recommends similar classes. I have to find them outside of youtube and make playlists to keep track of them.

Re:You are the cause

[Anonymous Coward]

No matter how many times I ask it not to show me the "top 10 of blah blah blah", it keeps showing up.

Do you also click on the "unsubscribe" links from the email spam? It works? Why do you think this is going to be different?

Re:Car reviews are flooded with auto generated vid

[Darinbob]

Because people can't read anymore, they have to watch a 20 minute video instead.

Not the same

[Anonymous Coward]

I still trust someone I don't know on Youtube then I would CNN or NBC! At least the youtube video has a chance at not being a lie.

But really, everyone should be down their own research on any political story. If people did that, people would know Trump isn't a racist and he is a great president.

Re:Setup?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, the Democrats have even a single strong point?

Seriously. Please provide a single strong point of the Democrats in 2018.

I am APK the LORD of HOSTS

[Anonymous Coward]

I am APK the great "LORD of HOSTS", a.k.a. AlecStaar from ArsTechnica or Alexander Peter Kowalski.

See subject & APK Hosts File Engine 2.0++ 64-bit for Linux h t t p : / / I . a m . a . f u c k i n g / a s s h o l e . r e t a r d . z i p (remove spaces between characters & download).

I am the godlike creator of various GUI front-ends for other people's configuration files.

I think only one person stalks me as I shitpost and I dusted them on another site but in reality I am widely hated all.

When people state the truth about me I get really mad and accuse them of projecting which is something I do all the time.

Don't call me out on anything as I will state that you are a webmaster and that I cut off your revenue stream.

You must be conspiring with the Jews and Soros if you disagree with me.

Mistaking mockery and parody for impersonation is how I think people flatter me because I can't possibly understand that they detest me.

See me lash out at one person for 2 weeks straight and claim everyone who mocks my retarded ass is actually them.

Bask in my greatness as I post my advertisements in discussions where they don't belong, by the way this is every discussion I post in.

I demand your age sex and location so that I can threaten to show up and kick your ass and will call you a pussycake but am actually too scared to actually do anything but be a keyboard warrior.

Watch as I claim I am world class and a winner but in reality I am a fucking loser.

Witness my descent into madness

APK

APK needs to understand this

[Anonymous Coward]

Obligatory XKCD that you need to read and understand.

Re:Car reviews are flooded with auto generated vid

[sabbede]

So, you're saying that they're auto generated auto videos?

Re:Car reviews are flooded with auto generated vid

[sabbede]

Thanks for reminding me how annoying it is when I'm looking specifically for text instructions on how to configure something, instructions and diagrams on how to fix something, or video game location maps, and all the results are f'ing youtube videos put together by some jackass in love with their editing software. I want a quick reference, not a video I have to scan through, pause, rewind, and eventually give up on.

I know 1 thing for SURE... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

YOU, unidentifiable anonymous troll who STALKS me, don't have ANYTHING like this to your name/credit https://news.slashdot.org/comm... as does everyone else reading vs. your EFFETE ineffective "trolling" harassing me!

I also know that YOU are OUT of "downmodpoints" you farm via multiple sockpuppets here to "hide" it, lol - & if you come up with more (since you downmodded it before)?

I will just INEVITABLY + SYSTEMATICALLY & METHODICALLY EXHAUST YOU OF THEM, again (as always, lol) - you lose on EVERY FRONT possible, no questions asked, lmao!

You wouldn't be replying otherwise.

* Why? You're too STUPID to ever get the better of me...

APK

P.S.=> By the way, lastly - Do you want MORE of those GOOD REVIEWS of my work from MORE registered /.ers (who unlike you USED their name here whereas YOU HIDE FROM ME because you FEAR ME)? Ask - I've DOZENS more like them (& you certainly don't because you're a no talent unskilled JEALOUS "Lil' Jowie" mere "ne'er-do-well" & you not only KNOW it, you prove it constantly)... apk

Russel Crow

[Doctrinsograce]

I remember when Russel Crow was being interviewed about a movie he starred in. The interviewer asked how historically accurate the movie was. Crow assured him it was fairly true to history. "However," he added, "if you get all your history from movies, you have other problems." I think this principle applies to people who are not discerning about where they are getting their "news" and are untaught how to filter.

Re:Setup?

[Anonymous Coward]

Crickets.

All I got is crickets.

Ribbet. Ribbet.

Shut up you lying sack of shit

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't threaten vs. a NOBODY

Shut your fucking pie hole you lying sack of shit.
You threaten people all the time and when called on it you hide in the fucking corner and piss yourself.
So come on pussycake post your fucking address

Alex McQuown/Khyber, STFU you loser

[Anonymous Coward]

Khyber STALKS me by AC again & ALWAYS SAYS "Lying Sack of Shit" (not to me always either ala e.g.) https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments....

YOU MADE A HUGE MISTAKE THREATENING ME HERE Khyber https://slashdot.org/comments....

&

ANYONE I merely addressed in TURN when DIRECTED @ me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous you use STALKING ME? Isn't threatening ANYONE real, period.

(That is, UNLESS your name is "Anonymous Coward" on your birth certificate stupid & it isn't...)

APK

P.S.=> Khyber CAUGHT RED-HANDED "defending himself" by ANONYMOUS COWARD here too https://slashdot.org/comments.... ? Please, lol... apk

Spam in trending page

[Anonymous Coward]

href="http://myknowledgejungle.blogspot.com/2018/08/blog-post-youtube-trending-page-spam.html/">some YouTube video in trending page big spam

This most worst experience in YouTube just read you get to know