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Nvidia Is Giving Up On the Cryptocurrency Mining Market (latimes.com)

"Nvidia's nine-month crypto gold rush is over," reports the Los Angeles Times. An anonymous reader quotes their report: "Our core platforms exceeded our expectations, even as crypto largely disappeared," founder and Chief Executive Jensen Huang said Thursday on a conference call. "We're projecting no cryptomining going forward...." Nvidia said it had expected about $100 million in sales of chips bought by currency miners in the fiscal second quarter. Instead, the total was $18 million in the period, and that revenue is likely to disappear entirely in future quarters, the company said.

Investors are expressing their concern at the sudden collapse of what had looked like a billion-dollar business. Three months ago, Nvidia said it generated $289 million in sales from cryptocurrency miners, but warned that demand was declining rapidly and might fall by as much as two-thirds. Even that prediction was too optimistic.

27 of 176 comments (clear)

  1. The true cost of mining by xack · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Not only has millions of tonnes of greenhouses gases been produced due to mining, it has also produced millions of graphics cards that are now useless due to being fried alive by mining, which will now be in a third world waste dump now as they are too hard to recycle. meanwhile bona fide users of graphics cards have had their supplies disrupted, had their prices more than doubled and have had to wait an extra year for new hardare to come out because nvidia was too busy making mining cards to do r&d. Anyone who made “money” from mining should have it seized under environmental protection laws.

    1. Re:The true cost of mining by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Informative

      Finite currencies have their own problems. They are subject to deflation, and wild price swings. There is a reason all major governments moved away from a gold standard.

    2. Re:The true cost of mining by gman003 · · Score: 4, Informative

      GPU production did not substantially increase. Both AMD and Nvidia looked at cryptocoins, realized they were almost certainly a bubble that could pop at any time, and accordingly made no long-term investments to increase production. They pretty much maxed out their contracts with chip foundries (neither make their own chips - Nvidia uses TSMC and Samsung, AMD uses GlobalFoundries and TSMC), but they could never keep up with such an absurd demand spike with existing infrastructure.

      Further, the GPUs are hardly useless now. They're already starting to appear on the secondhand market, and be snatched up by gamers. I myself am contemplating getting a second card, if they get cheap enough. The really useless mining hardware are the ASICs - which are pretty tailor-made for the purpose of mining, although I suspect the Bitcoin ASICs might be able to be repurposed to brute-force SHA-256 passwords.

      And finally, the headline is a bit inaccurate. Nvidia isn't "giving up". They're just letting shareholders know not to expect another quarter of massive sales volume, because they expect the remaining crypto miners to mostly buy ASICs, not general-purpose cards. (And the glut of used cards is probably going to hurt at least their low-end sales for a year or two - given a choice between this year's $200 card, and last year's $800 card, used, for $200, lots of people will pick the latter.)

    3. Re:The true cost of mining by careysub · · Score: 5, Funny

      Which is why hyperinflation from "printing" too much money has been a persistent problem with all fiat currencies around the world, hitting every nation repeatedly, including of course the United States. We desperately need blockchain to finally rein in the incessant hyperinflation!

      Oh wait... this hasn't happened. Only a few failed (or near-failed) states have actually experienced anything like this. Never mind.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
    4. Re:The true cost of mining by ZorinLynx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >Further, the GPUs are hardly useless now. They're already starting to appear on the secondhand market, and be snatched up by gamers.

      A lot of the GPUs *are* useless to gamers because they don't have video circuitry on them or video outputs. So they're pretty much only good for GPU computing. I suppose they could be sold to the scientific computing market, but I suspect demand for GPUs there isn't as high as gamings, so it's likely folks won't get too much money back.

      I wish the GPU card manufacturers hadn't started making these cards without the video circuitry and ports. This is the cheapest part of the card, and at least if they had proper video outputs the cards would be useful second hand to gamers and folks who want to drive really high resolution displays. What a waste.

    5. Re:The true cost of mining by m00sh · · Score: 2

      Not only has millions of tonnes of greenhouses gases been produced due to mining, it has also produced millions of graphics cards that are now useless due to being fried alive by mining, which will now be in a third world waste dump now as they are too hard to recycle. meanwhile bona fide users of graphics cards have had their supplies disrupted, had their prices more than doubled and have had to wait an extra year for new hardare to come out because nvidia was too busy making mining cards to do r&d. Anyone who made “money” from mining should have it seized under environmental protection laws.

      Actually NVidia got lots of money by selling their cards for cryptocurrency mining which they then used to hire more engineers to do R&D for their next generation of cards.

      Like almost every company that was producing chips for mining, they are now pivoting to AI.

    6. Re:The true cost of mining by gman003 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Right, I forgot about those.

      They might still be useful in SLI/Crossfire configurations. Only one GPU needs video outputs for that to work. Do mining-specific cards still have the SLI edge connector?

    7. Re:The true cost of mining by Artem+S.+Tashkinov · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not only has millions of tonnes of greenhouses gases been produced due to mining

      There are dozens of other human activities which produce nothing but greenhouse gases.

      it has also produced millions of graphics cards that are now useless due to being fried alive by mining

      Unlike gamers who make their GPUs go through 0-100% use cycles, with temperatures ranging from 18 to 100C, most miners, on the the other hand, reduce voltage by default (this greatly increases efficiency) and keep their GPUs constantly loaded, under constant moderate temperatures (below 70C) which does not affect the GPU core lifespan in any significant way. Also mining rigs are usually open and well-ventilated, unlike gamers' PCs which are filled with dust and operate under extreme temperatures.

      which will now be in a third world waste dump now as they are too hard to recycle

      Or they might be resold.

      meanwhile bona fide users of graphics cards have had their supplies disrupted, had their prices more than doubled and have had to wait an extra year for new hardare to come out because nvidia was too busy making mining cards to do r&d.

      NVIDIA has never stopped R&D and they did not allocate any significant additional resources to producing cards meant for miners.

      Anyone who made âoemoneyâ from mining should have it seized under environmental protection laws.

      People waste money and resources on far more negative things.

    8. Re:The true cost of mining by war4peace · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not only has millions of tonnes of greenhouses gases been produced due to mining

      Where did THAT come from?

      , it has also produced millions of graphics cards that are now useless due to being fried alive by mining

      Citation needed. This is simply false. It's the typical case of incomplete information being blown completely out of proportion and twisted to carry someone's agenda.
      While a graphics card used 24/7 would indeed carry a higher risk of becoming defective (by the way, this is the only correct information being flung around like poo by cryptohaters), there isn't much talk about everything else which counterbalances this risk.
      The vast majority of miners take better care of their cards than regular gamers. The mining cards are undervolted and have power limits set. They are also better cooled than their gaming counterparts, located in open cases and with plenty airflow around them. I suggest researching this topic a bit before vomiting nonsense, but I guess it's simpler to vomit nonsense, isn't it? Fuck being objective.

      , which will now be in a third world waste dump now as they are too hard to recycle.

      What you fail to mention is that a GPU is much easier to recycle than, say, a mobile phone or a tablet, or a laptop, or a TV for that matter. A GPU's cooling solution has two main components: Aluminium and plastic. Both can be easily separated and melted. What remains is a 200-grams PCB which is flat and has components that can easily be separated.

      meanwhile bona fide users of graphics cards have had their supplies disrupted, had their prices more than doubled and have had to wait an extra year for new hardare to come out because nvidia was too busy making mining cards to do r&d. Anyone who made “money” from mining should have it seized under environmental protection laws.

      Again, you're either misinformed or carry an agenda.
      nVidia wasn't the main perpetrator here. They clearly mentioned, more than once, that they can and would ramp up chip production if needed. The issue was integrators (Gigabyte, Asus, MSI and the like) were reluctant to boost chip orders and build many cards, out of fear they're going to be left with huge overstocks. Price jacking happened solely at third party sellers and was boosted by Vnand prices going up like crazy. For THAT you gotta blame Apple, they're buying about 20% of ALL vNand production every year. Guess what they put it in? Yeah, that phone you're carrying.

      As I kept saying for quite some time now, it's easier to talk out of your ass and fling misinformation around like poo.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    9. Re:The true cost of mining by war4peace · · Score: 2

      A lot of the GPUs *are* useless to gamers because they don't have video circuitry on them or video outputs.

      Define "a lot". Headless GPUs represent a tiny minority, mainly because all serious miners shied away from them, knowing their resale value was zero, or close to that. Some suckers still bought them but the totl amount is probably low single digit percentage of all, and I'm generous here.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    10. Re:The true cost of mining by TeknoHog · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A lot of the GPUs *are* useless to gamers because they don't have video circuitry on them or video outputs. So they're pretty much only good for GPU computing.

      That's like saying that CPUs are only good for CPU computing. I'm seeing a lot of "hidden" applications for GPU computing these days, e.g. video and photo editors that are taking advantage of OpenCL and related tech behind the scenes. As a sibling post mentions, things like SLI should be useful for gamers and others that only use GPUs to process what's immediately visible. Games might also offload physics modelling etc. to GPUs.

      Today, it seems completely backwards that GPUs used to be limited for display only. Why build those nice parallel processor arrays if you can't actually use them for general computing? Fortunately, some clever people worked around those limitations by putting general data into image textures. Eventually, the industry gave in and formalized the idea into OpenCL and CUDA.

      You can forget about cryptocurrencies and see all these companies talking about data mining and AI. Things like tensor cores neither for gaming nor cryptos. That said, such companies are probably not interested in random second-hand GPUs, but the point is that GPU computing is huge and professional and not going away.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    11. Re:The true cost of mining by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      I've never understood why people think graphics cards "wear out" due to use.

    12. Re:The true cost of mining by Kjella · · Score: 2

      Right, I forgot about those. They might still be useful in SLI/Crossfire configurations. Only one GPU needs video outputs for that to work. Do mining-specific cards still have the SLI edge connector?

      Well it's not needed for mining so if you were making an extremely stripped down single-purpose version I don't see how that'd survive.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    13. Re:The true cost of mining by Tough+Love · · Score: 2

      I wish the GPU card manufacturers hadn't started making these cards without the video circuitry and ports

      These cards are for the deep learning market, now going vertical and no sign of stopping. Gamers don't need to feel left out, they benefit from the extra volume, which adds capacity the fab lines and contributes to bringing down the price of their next gaming GPU.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    14. Re: The true cost of mining by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Of course, there are objective problems with a gold standard as you mention, but whether or more t it is addressed objectively better or worse, those reasons are not why governments moved to fiat currency. They moved because they were bankrupt and wanted to print their way out of the problem.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    15. Re:The true cost of mining by teg · · Score: 2

      Not only has millions of tonnes of greenhouses gases been produced due to mining

      Where did THAT come from?

      There were a couple of articles about Bitcoin and emissions last year.

  2. NVidia is terrible by themusicgod1 · · Score: 2

    NVidia not making profit here? Let's look at why. 1) You need to be able to understand what the hardware/software stack below you is doing in the cryptocurrency world. Because more often than not, that one black box that you don't understand is where your bitcoin / other cryptocurrency is going to get stolen from. And yet Nvidia is actively hostile to those of us who live and die by drivers that are FLOSS. Nevermind that NVidia drivers are buggy as hell, we can't fix the official ones.
    2) NVidia has been openly hostile to cryptocurrency miners, expressing publicly that they would prefer their cards go to gamers. They are not content to shut up and take our money, they didn't want it.
    3) Their contact/support blocks tor users Which, guess what? There's a significant overlap with cryptocurrency users, given the concern we have over our privacy.
    tl; dr nvidia didn't care when one of the biggest windfalls ever hit them, and now the market is starting to move past them. Good.

    --
    GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
    1. Re:NVidia is terrible by Tough+Love · · Score: 2

      nvidia doesn't need a market that has small saturation point

      They will take any market they can get. The problem is, miners don't want nVidia GPUs because they are less power efficient for the hashing load than AMD. Why exactly that is... I only looked at that superficially, but it seems one big point is that nVideo optimized their architecture heavily for the most popular gaming GPU load, that is, 32 bit floating point. For double, half or integer, AMD delivers better ops per watt.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  3. Re:Is it dead yet? by mikael · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In the very beginning, one man paid for two pizzas using 10,000 bitcoins, which at the highest price would have been $80,000,000

    https://www.investopedia.com/n...

    --
    Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
  4. Is this some kind of parody? by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Not only has millions of tonnes of greenhouses gases been produced due to mining

    If you want to troll you have to use some figure that sounds like someone somewhere might actually believe it. According to you the atmosphere is 100% CO2 at this point. I'm still breathing pretty well.

    it has also produced millions of graphics cards that are now useless due to being fried alive by mining

    This also seems rather absurd; I have a friend with a dedicated mining rig and something like 16 cards - why would miners "Fry them alive"?? The longer the cards last the more money they make so the miners treat the GPU's like tender infants and take great pains to cool them properly. There is no reason those cards will not last 10x longer than a GPU in the average PC sold to someone in a dusty house.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  5. Re:Is it dead yet? by FilmedInNoir · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At least he still has his Beanie Baby collection to retire on.

    --
    Sig. Sig. Sputnik
  6. Understanding Bitcoin by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Some Twitter wag gave the best explanation of Bitcoin I've ever seen:

    "Imagine if keeping your car idling 24/7 produced solved Sudokus you could trade for heroin."

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:Understanding Bitcoin by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe if your car can only drive on one road, in one direction, then it would be an apt analogy.

      Did you even read the analogy? The car is idling. It's not driving anywhere. It's up on blocks. Stationary.

      Fuck, do I have to explain everything to the Anonymous Coward? As much as he's on here, you'd think he'd have developed some reading skills by now.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  7. Re:then why the hell... by Tough+Love · · Score: 2

    are the previous generation (launched early '17) graphics cards still selling for above the original launch

    Previous gen is now back at roughly MSRP, which is still distorted. Prices should fall rapidly over the coming weeks with perhaps a bit of overshoot, maybe great value for games. RX 580 remains highly respectable, especially for Vulkan/DX12 games. Current gen Vega 64 is running about 10% over MSRP right now, way down from what it was. I'm one of those fuck nVidia guys (with good reason) so I don't much care what they cost, but for what it's worth, nVideo MSRP is following about the same trajectory.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  8. Re:"We're projecting no cryptomining going forward by luther349 · · Score: 2

    its all tied to bitcoin even all the clone currency's. people would mine the easier clone currency to buy bitcoin. but now that bitcoin has crashed hard and levelling off its over. see the miners where not dumb they where pumping up the price of bitcoin to cash out before the wall street traders invaded the currency. they knew once they invaded they would cash the currency short selling and they did.

  9. Re: Is it dead yet? by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem with these logistical tracking in the block chain ideas is (among other things) how do you ensure that the physical item matches the coin? How do I ensure that when the coin is given to me, the physical item also is given (and if you have a technique that works, why not just use that instead of the block chain)? Furthermore, what happens if the key for the item's entry in the chain is lost, does that mean the item must also be destroyed? Upon further investigation, adding block chain just adds a layer of complexity with little benefit. Block chain is not going to prevent UPS from losing my packages.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  10. Re:Impractical by aticus.finch · · Score: 2

    This is because people are finally realizing how impractical cryptocurrencies are.

    The problem is cryptocoins have very few legitimate applications beyond resale to the next bigger fool. Once the fool pool is depleted, the value has nowhere to go but down. It will probably never reach $0 though, as there will always be illegal uses (money laundering, drug money, ransomware, etc.) propping up the value.

    Also, there are new fools being born every minute. The fool pool can never be depleted because the supply of fools is virtually infinite.