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Why Is American Mass Transit So Bad? It's a Long Story. (citylab.com)

Jonathan English, writing for City Lab: One hundred years ago, the United States had a public transportation system that was the envy of the world. Today, outside a few major urban centers, it is barely on life support. Even in New York City, subway ridership is well below its 1946 peak. Annual per capita transit trips in the U.S. plummeted from 115.8 in 1950 to 36.1 in 1970, where they have roughly remained since, even as population has grown.

This has not happened in much of the rest of the world. While a decline in transit use in the face of fierce competition from the private automobile throughout the 20th century was inevitable, near-total collapse was not. At the turn of the 20th century, when transit companies' only competition were the legs of a person or a horse, they worked reasonably well, even if they faced challenges. Once cars arrived, nearly every U.S. transit agency slashed service to cut costs, instead of improving service to stay competitive. This drove even more riders away, producing a vicious cycle that led to the point where today, few Americans with a viable alternative ride buses or trains.

Now, when the federal government steps in to provide funding, it is limited to big capital projects. (Under the Trump administration, even those funds are in question.) Operations -- the actual running of buses and trains frequently enough to appeal to people with an alternative -- are perpetually starved for cash. Even transit advocates have internalized the idea that transit cannot be successful outside the highest-density urban centers. And it very rarely is.

25 of 463 comments (clear)

  1. It's simple.. by fluffernutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Powerful people don't use mass transit, therefore there is no priority on mass transit.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re:It's simple.. by HornWumpus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It IS simple.

      Population density.

      Yards kill mass transit. Which works for us.

      We can vote with our feet, but the social engineers don't like how we vote. Fuck them, right in the ear.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:It's simple.. by imgod2u · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This argument never makes sense. Sure, I shouldn't expect mass transit from SF to Wichita. But just within CA, the areas of SF and LA alone have the population density equal to that of Germany (between Munich and Berlin or Bohn, for example).

      Ditto for NYC and Boston, which are very similar to that of Tokyo and Kyoto (both in distance between, population density within the city as well as rural areas in between).

      The reason is nothing more than politics. And it would seem the ultra-liberal politicians of CA and NYC/MA aren't any better at adopting mass transit (despite the appeals to how well Europe or Japan does things as well as concern for greenhouse gas) compared to the ultra-conservative politicians of TX.

    3. Re:It's simple.. by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...The reason is nothing more than politics. And it would seem the ultra-liberal politicians of CA and NYC/MA aren't any better at adopting mass transit....

      Actually, New York City and Boston are two cities in the US where a large number of people DO use public transportation. The NY Subway and the Boston T are both old and both in need of upgrading, but they are both in every day use by ordinary people. If you want to list liberal cities that don't have good public transportation, I'd go with LA and Seattle.

      (Although, to be fair, LA actually does have a metro, IF you happen to live near a stop and only want to go somewhere near a stop.)

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    4. Re:It's simple.. by postbigbang · · Score: 4, Insightful

      GM paid to have trolley car tracks ripped out. Some cities were built with viable ways to expand mass transportation, and if they didn't they now face excruciating costs in buying easements, right of way, with a cost per mile that's gruesome.

      Trains and trolleys used to link the US in astounding ways. The airlines wanted a taste of that. So did the auto industry. Train tracks became urban trails. Who's going to vote to rip up urban trails?

      Then it became a class and race crisis, where people didn't want to have to ride with the poor, the unwashed masses, and heaven forbid, white people traveling with black people and Latinos. The rich white folk could all afford cars and the fuel, taxes, and insurance. The banks and auto makers made lots of dough financing driving by yourself. So did the oil companies. Public transportation in many areas suffered, just as the poor suffer today-- no one wants to subsidize those the needs poor people or pay the a living wage.

      I take public transport wherever/whenever I can because it's cheaper and I don't have to drive. I can do my phone surfing, or just relax. Someone else is driving and they're usually good. I can't see a good reason to fly on the NE corridor at all. Between regional rail and Uber/Lyft, it doesn't make sense.

      Summary: it's a class/race/economics/social-shunning problem, not to mention the financing underneath is controlled by people that never use it.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    5. Re: It's simple.. by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We've already failed. It is hopeless that mass transit can get fixed in less than 30 years, so self-driving cars is the solution.

      Every consider that the modern person just doesn't want to ride mass transit for their daily lives?

      Even if it was clean, on time and lacked smelly bums.....why would I choose public transportation when I can more easily and directly have door-to-door services with my own car?

      Not to mention, in my own car, I keep my own stuff it in and don't have to load/unload all the time, I have my radio programmed in, I keep some daily possessions in there, etc.

      Unless you are down and out with regards to money, why would anyone choose it?

      The times I come close to wanting to go somewhere and not drive or park....I uber. Again, it is door-to-door.

      This is especially important when there is inclement weather, or when, like here, it is fscking 95F out with 98% humidity. If you're dressed at all to look nice for work, etc, you don't wanna be sweating your ass off by the time you get to work.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    6. Re:It's simple.. by spire3661 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Its outright wrong to push public transport accessibility onto CLOSED platforms. Those users can use the goddamn browser on their device if needed, there is a reason we spent so much time perfecting it.. Allowing this transition to closed platforms is absolutely insane and it shocks me i have to explain this on slashdot. It creates a barrier to entry to the most vulnerable people. Before you could at least go to the Library to access it. You cant put public infrastructure onto closed platforms.

      --
      Good-bye
    7. Re: It's simple.. by mustafap · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's because the one car one person model is destroying the planet, and until we get rid of selfish people who think otherwise, we are in trouble

      --
      Open Source Drum Kit, LPLC deve board - mjhdesigns.com
    8. Re: It's simple.. by jwdb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unless you are down and out with regards to money, why would anyone choose it?

      Avoiding traffic and the hassle of parking and maintenance. Because you have a disability (say, blindness), or a general dislike of driving. Because you want to sleep/read/... an extra half hour. Because you want to do your bit for global warming. Because that extra bit of walking it requires keeps you just a little bit healthier.

      Parking and traffic may be fine where you live, and I agree that walking in 95F/98% is unpleasant, but driving isn't the only solution and not everywhere has such problematic weather. Uber's fine on occasion, but not for regular use.

    9. Re: It's simple.. by h4ck7h3p14n37 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Every consider that the modern person just doesn't want to ride mass transit for their daily lives? Even if it was clean, on time and lacked smelly bums.....why would I choose public transportation when I can more easily and directly have door-to-door services with my own car?

      Lucky you. I live in Chicago and it would cost me something like $450 per month to park where I work downtown.

      Fortunately our public transit system is pretty good. I leave my car in the garage under my building and either walk 20 minutes to the train, or go to the corner and catch a bus. It's fantastic and it doesn't matter if I'm tired, drunk, high, whatever, it's a safe ride. My workplace is a block from the train stop and it's a 15 minute ride.

      Even with the walk I get in to work faster than I would if I drove and parked. Plus, I'm burning like an extra 300 calories a day.

    10. Re: It's simple.. by ChrisMaple · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Prove that it's destroying the planet, or STFU.

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    11. Re: It's simple.. by iwbcman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Spoken like a true American.

      Your lack of experience of what modern mass transit is actually like, ie. what we, as Americans, for the most part do not actually have, can be forgiven as a basis for your negative attitude.

      Modern mass transit offers multiple advantages over our current Hobsian all-against-all free for all of individually driven cars, given your ignorance, let me list some:

      1) modern mass transit has amazing air conditioning in the summer and heating in the winter, I have never sweated or froze in modern mass transit. You don't have to sit in place warm up your transit for 10 minutes prior to departure in the morning, you don't have to sweat and gasp for air while waiting for your transit to cool down from 120 degrees Fahrenheit, upon entering your transit after a long days work. It's virtually never too hot or too cold in modern mass transit.

      2) modern mass transit is clean, well maintained and quite pleasant, and you might just be sitting next to corporate executives and/or high ranked politicians, for in places with modern mass transit, even the well off prefer using mass transit. Only in *expletive* societies like the US is mass transit considered only good enough for the poorest of the poor.

      3) modern mass transit allows you to make great use of the 3-4 hours a day that countless Americans waste driving their cars. Modern mass transit has internet, electricity, tables to work on and places where 4-6 people can, if they so choose, sit together. You can text safely while riding in modern mass transit, whereas in a car you threaten the life of yourself and everyone around you. You can read, write reports, hell you can even code, surf the web, watch videos or listen to music. And god forbid if you are so inclined you can even *speak* to another also present human being.

      4) modern mass transit is amazingly quiet and smooth. In some cities the trams are so quiet that bicyclists wearing headphones cant even tell their coming, ie. that's how little vibration and noise they make nowadays. Rapid high speed trains, a critical part of modern mass transit, are so frigging smooth you can fill a glass of wine on your table and leave it untouched over a 500 miles trip at speeds in excess of 250 mph on average. We have nothing like this in America, so I forgive you for being ignorant.

      5) modern mass transit systems consist of multiple separate yet inter-linked systems. Your experience as a passenger is as if there is a single moving sidewalk, because you can effortlessly and quickly switch from one to the next to the next of these separate inter-linked systems. Modern mass tranist systems usually consist of inter-linked high speed trains, subways, trams and bus systems. These inter-linked system connect cities and towns over larger geographic areas, metropolitan areas can extend hundreds of miles in all directions, meaning you can easily work or study hundred+ miles from where you live, and still spend less time in-transit than you currently do with your car.

      6) modern mass transit systems are incredibly reliable in terms of timing, if for no other reason than that are entirely isolated from automobile traffic and do not compete with cars. Modern mass transit systems run almost 24 hours offering service from whee early in the morning (5:00AM), until quite late at night(12:00 - 2:00 AM), and they operate on the weekends. If you want to be guaranteed to be on time to work or classes, use modern mass transit.

      7) modern mass transit systems ensure that where you want and need to shop is almost always within some smallish number of yards from mass transit stops. This means far less walking than what is entailed when shopping in places surrounded by epically large parking places. It also means you can easily do a little bit of shopping on your way back home from work or school 2-3 times a week rather than trying to buy everything needed for half a month and being exhausted from carrying 100 plus bags of goods for your family every time

    12. Re: It's simple.. by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Get rid of these people? What the hell, Adolf? How did this get up to +5?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    13. Re: It's simple.. by hazardPPP · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And I didn't even mention the stupid rules they have: - I'm not allowed to eat or drink anything; - I can't have pepperspray on me; - Not that I have one, but even if I had a firearm and CCW permit I would not be allowed to carry it;

      San Jose's public transportation sounds pretty poorly managed from your description, so it's no wonder people prefer to drive. However, if you feel the need to carry peppespray or firearms on you on your way to work, or wherever, I'd say San Jose has bigger problems than its light rail system.

      Also, you complain here about not being able to eat anything on the train, while later in your post you complain about odours on the train. I'm sure you realize that, if everyone could eat on the train, the odours would be that much more unpleasant? The sweat and garlic... Finally, I hope you don't eat while driving, since that's a bit of a safety hazard.

  2. We allowed it to be private, then let it collapse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Many US cities had streetcar lines up until the 50s/60s. They were by and large privately owned, later bought by GM/Firestone, and went bust to be replaced by busses, which required tires. So the cities tore out miles and miles of track.

    Stupid right? It's a failure of government that just wanted to move on to cars, and didn't see any value in buying this infrastructure (already on the publicly owned and maintained streets).

    The US has long had this fantasy that everything can just be done by private enterprise. For some things it's true. I'm not a fan of government telecom owned telecom monopolies or the government owned energy monopoly in Mexico. But some things provide positive externalities like transit, or roads or bridges really should be owned and operated by the government.

    Most other countries figured this out long ago. We still thought we could give short shrify to transit, and hope people just get along with cars, and move further and further away (some weird obsession with wanting more property).

  3. Transit in Utah by Tog+Klim · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Transit Utah is surprisingly good for mountain state.

    I used it to commute for several years. The problem was the increased time spent in the commute.

    Using the trains my commute was 1.5 hours from my door to my office. On motorcycle it is 45 minutes. In a car it was someplace in between. They offered wifi on the train, but the quality was too poor to do anything beyond a git push, email or basic browsing. Forget using a VPN. To make the train time useful I had to save work for the train. If I didn't have that kind of work to do, then the extra hour and half was coming out of my personal time. (my quality of life)

    Now I work closer to home. Self transport is 15-20 minutes now. Mass transit is 50 minutes but only runs twice a day. But even if it was every ten minutes, I wouldn't do it because I want to be productive.

    Self transport (Automobile/Motorcycle) equates to freedom in the US; go where you want when you want.

    Mass transport puts you on someone else's schedule instead of your own.

    Mass transit can't seem to function in the US because there is just too much space to cover. For densely populated areas there is enough mass to make it work. Without the population density, it cannot make enough money to pay it's own bills, so it naturally fails unless it is propped up by a government.

  4. Mass transit can't possibly "compete" by timholman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Once cars arrived, nearly every U.S. transit agency slashed service to cut costs, instead of improving service to stay competitive.

    That statement presupposes that "improving service" could ever have allowed mass transit to keep up. How do you "compete" with personal transit that takes you from door to door, on your own schedule, day or night, from the convenience of your own home, without having to worry about being assaulted or robbed by someone riding with you? It was inevitable that mass transit would lose out when automobiles came on the scene.

    The problem with the mass transit debate is two-fold:

    (1) It is dominated by people who moan and moralize about what other people "ought" to be doing, rather than what they choose to do as a matter of personal convenience and time savings.

    (2) Many of the people doing the moaning and moralizing don't believe in eating the dog food being served to the plebes; they drive their own vehicles. You see, their personal time is extremely valuable, even if they don't consider yours to be.

    There is no "conspiracy" against mass transit. Commuters are quite capable of making their own choices about the quickest, safest, most convenient way to getting from point A to point B. Mass transit just can't compete with personal transportation, except in the very densest urban environments.

    1. Re:Mass transit can't possibly "compete" by DogDude · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Mass transit just can't compete with personal transportation, except in the very densest urban environments

      Spoken as somebody who's never been out of the US, I'm willing to bet.

      --
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    2. Re:Mass transit can't possibly "compete" by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Mass transit can compete with personal transport just fine.

      Look at Japan. Train stations are major hubs. They often build a shopping centre on top of the station, and offices around it. Bus companies link up to get people further out. Any new development makes sure it has regular bus/real links and sells that as a benefit of living there - sail past the people stuck in their cars on congested roads with a rail track or purpose built bus lane.

      The mistake other countries make is trying to graft on public transport later. Train companies in particular miss a trick by not using the land the station is built on for 10 floors of retail too.

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  5. old cities by ArhcAngel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most large European cities were large long before the advent of the automobile. This meant their transit infrastructure was designed at most for horse and buggy. To build roads to accommodate automobiles would mean tearing down buildings to widen roads. America by contrast grew up with automobiles and wide open spaces so except for the North East coastal cities the roads are at least big enough for most passenger cars. Several other factors contributed to make mass transit less of a necessity leading to low ridership.

    --
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
  6. Because we're suckers for good marketing by damn_registrars · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We are told we need single-family houses to make us happy and wealthy - so we buy single-family houses. We are told we need cars to make us happy and productive - so we buy cars.

    Mass transit has no effective marketing. It's just there, like municipal water service. You can use it or ignore it. And as we keep telling people that the "good life" is outside the city - and hence outside the reach of many transit systems - they don't invest the effort in using them.

    --
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    1. Re:Because we're suckers for good marketing by sootman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > We are told we need single-family houses to make us happy and wealthy - so we buy single-family houses.

      Is that why we buy them? I bought mine so I wouldn't have to share walls with inconsiderate assholes.

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    2. Re:Because we're suckers for good marketing by eth1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > We are told we need single-family houses to make us happy and wealthy - so we buy single-family houses.

      Is that why we buy them? I bought mine so I wouldn't have to share walls with inconsiderate assholes.

      Also, a single-family home allows me to do things I enjoy that would make ME an inconsiderate asshole if I shared walls/floors/ceilings with someone.

    3. Re:Because we're suckers for good marketing by apoc.famine · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You got decently shouted down on a lot of your stupid points, but I don't see this one covered:

      We are told we need single-family houses to make us happy and wealthy - so we buy single-family houses.

      And that's true. For most Americans, the only viable path to increasing wealth is home ownership. Paying someone else money (renting) does not make you wealthier. And this is especially true in retirement, when your income drops significantly.

      And yes, while you can make more money investing, buying a house is killing about three birds with one stone - you've got a place to live that's suitable to raise a family, you've got an investment vehicle, and you've got a retirement place or the ability to sell it and buy a cheaper, smaller one. And it's not uncommon for rent to be the same or even higher than mortgage payments, as often those renting are paying a mortgage and also trying to make a profit. That means most people can't cheap out on their housing cost and invest that money instead.

      There aren't many places in the US where buying a house is a poor financial decision. In the vast majority of places for the vast majority of people it's the most viable path to retiring decently wealthy.

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  7. Not just mass transit by AnthonywC · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But almost all public infrastructure in USA are in very bad shape. USA got a D+ rating in 2017 from (ASCE) American Society of Civil Engineers https://www.infrastructurerepo...