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US Lawmakers Say AI Deepfakes 'Have the Potential To Disrupt Every Facet of Our Society' (theverge.com)

Yesterday, several lawmakers sent a letter to the Director of National Intelligence, Dan Coats, asking him to assess the threat posed to national security by deepfakes -- a new type of AI-assisted video editing that creates realistic results with minimal effort. The Verge reports: The letter says "hyper-realistic digital forgeries" showing "convincing depictions of individuals doing or saying things they never did" could be used for blackmail and misinformation. "As deep fake technology becomes more advanced and more accessible, it could pose a threat to United States public discourse and national security," say the letter's signatories, House representatives Adam Schiff (D-CA), Stephanie Murphy (D-FL), and Carlos Curbelo (R-FL). The trio want the intelligence community to produce a report that includes descriptions of when "confirmed or suspected" deepfakes have been produced by foreign individuals (there are no current examples of this), and to suggest potential countermeasures. In a press statement, Curbelo said: "Deep fakes have the potential to disrupt every facet of our society and trigger dangerous international and domestic consequences [...] As with any threat, our Intelligence Community must be prepared to combat deep fakes, be vigilant against them, and stand ready to protect our nation and the American people."

26 of 198 comments (clear)

  1. Re:TRUMP by Mal-2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This Congress? Nothing except verbally distance themselves from him (if they even do that) while lining their pockets with his policies. The next Congress though -- that's a whole different matter.

    --
    How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
  2. They're lying (They're politicians) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They're obviously lying. Politicians are gonna love the proliferation of deepfakes. That way, the next time they say something stupid in an interview, they can say the clip is a deepfake. They're just starting to blame them as an upcoming problem now so they can start using it as an excuse ASAP.

  3. Same as it ever was by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Informative

    Photos use to be considered "strong evidence", then Photoshop etc. came along to make doctoring cheap and common, and people stopped trusting photos. The same will happen to audio and video once they see enough fudged examples.

    1. Re:Same as it ever was by joe_frisch · · Score: 2

      Agreed. The problem is that with photos, video and voice all untrustable, what is left? How can someone come to an independent conclusion about anything?

      Politicians will just deny saying things that were caught on video....oh wait....

      It really is a serious issue.

    2. Re:Same as it ever was by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      If nothing else, we'll train an AI to spot the fakes

      Yes, that is exactly how it works. Train one DNN to generate fakes, and train another to detect the fakes. Set them up as adversarial networks.

      The generating network, and the detecting network continue to improve as each fights to defeat the other. Eventually the generator creates an image or video so good that it passes as "real". That is a "deep fake".

    3. Re:Same as it ever was by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Agreed. The problem is that with photos, video and voice all untrustable, what is left?

      For the most part photos, videos and voice are only untrustable to the common person. To expert opinion identifying a doctored item is usually very straight forward.

    4. Re:Same as it ever was by BeanThere · · Score: 2

      Sure, but in a typical court case, the defense and the prosecution will both put forth 'experts', one assuring everyone a video is fake, the other assuring everyone that video is real, and the jury (who have absolutely no clue how to tell which expert is reliable) will have to go off various internal biases.

      Investigators, prosecutors, judges - none of these people have the knowledge to distinguish real videos from fake videos, and they also don't have the knowledge to distinguish real experts from bullsh-tters.

      I was involved with an actual case where investigators and prosecution decided not to proceed with the case literally because the video footage evidence was from someone who theoretically had the know-how to fake such footage, and they knew it would 'stalemate' on whether the footage was real, as they basically had no forensic capacity to determine the reliability of the footage.

  4. OH NOES by Jarwulf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We're headed back to that horrible time a few decades ago without pervasive reliable audio and visual surveillance. Quick! Let's pass more laws curtailing freedom of expression and individual liberty!

  5. Heinlein's "Fair Witness" by steveha · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Robert A. Heinlein imagined this problem, and in his novel Stranger in a Strange Land he described a new profession: "Fair Witness"

    A Fair Witness is a person who is trained to observe and remember without jumping to any conclusions. A Fair Witness should be able to describe in court what he/she saw, and only that. As an example, a Fair Witness would say something like "I observed a house, and the side I saw appeared white" rather than "I observed a white house." It's possible that other sides of the house, not seen by the Fair Witness, could be a different color; and it's possible the house was repainted after the Fair Witness saw it... the Fair Witness keeps such things in mind.

    Surprisingly, Wikipedia doesn't seem to think that the idea of "Fair Witness" is notable. I Google searched for a reference, and I found a reference that claims to be quoting Wikipedia, but I can't find it on Wikipedia now.

    http://dlkphotography.com/fair-witness/stranger-in-a-strange-land

    I found the "Fair Witness" idea to be one of the most interesting things in the book, and I have long wondered if we would one day see that profession in real life.

    --
    lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
    1. Re:Heinlein's "Fair Witness" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In my "Intro to Psychology" class we learned about experiments that were performed that involved staging an event in front of a room full of people, including people who were trained as observers. Then, quizzing them on the details.

      Everyone performed badly, including the trained observers. Especially prominent were racial biases, skewing their memory of who did what.

      The notion of "fair witness" is too high a bar for humans to hit. We cannot avoid jumping to conclusions, infusing our biases, etc. And our memories are not nearly as accurate as they feel.

  6. Don't trust any one source by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 2

    Simple solution: don't trust any one source. Even if they're supposedly impeccable. Look for corroboration from multiple independent sources (and make sure they're really independent and not all getting their information from the same source). For instance if you have a video of someone checking into a hotel with a compromising companion, look for corroboration from the hotel's records, hotel staff who should have interacted with them, and the person's credit-card records. This is what we used to do before people got lazy and started believing everything they were told without question.

  7. US Lawmakers by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 4, Insightful

    are simply afraid of the competition.

    The US ( and everyone else ) has been altering both modern and historical facts to suit their own agendas since the very beginning.
    I'm curious why the sudden concern :|

    Pot. . . meet kettle.

  8. That's hammered into private investigators by raymorris · · Score: 2

    That's something that was said over and over again in my private investigator and security officer training.

    You DON'T tell the client "yes I caught your spouse cheating on you with his ex". You write notes as its happening if possible saying "I observed a white sedan park near 124 Oak Street". It's possible that the car isn't the subject's car, it only looks similar. It's possible that the suspected companion doesn't currently live at that address. It's possible that the subject went there to meet with his ex-brother-in-law about a business deal. You report only what you directly observe.

  9. What you can do and can't do by Dwedit · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What could be possible:

    * Cryptographic signatures on raw data leaving a camera, or Cryptographic signatures on the default recording app as the videos/photos are taken

    Probably won't help that much though, but might help to identify unedited footage.

    * Give images/videos timestamps signed by a third party immediately as they are taken

    This can prove that a piece of information existed no earlier than that time.

    None of these can thwart recording a video screen playing back pre-edited video.

    1. Re:What you can do and can't do by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Trusted third parties are expensive and usually unworkable. Cameras signing things will not provide any security at all, as they are easily hacked.

      So there will need to be some kind of hacking detection built into cameras. A write-only store which keeps track of changes to the internal flash, for example. In order to prove the validity of a video you'll have to produce both the video and the camera. This should be useful at least in keeping the police from tampering with body cam footage.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  10. Pictures don't lie. by grep+-v+'.*'+* · · Score: 2

    Way back when, when we first had cameras, that was the saying. Because it was really hard to make a convincing "wrong" photo. (Early: One, Two, Three, Four.

    And then came along tape, and audio editing, and auto-tune and computerized voice editing. And Hatsune Miku, who not only doesn't exist, her VOICE doesn't even exist: She was created by taking vocal samples [which] all contain a single Japanese phonic that, when strung together, creates full lyrics and phrases. Video. The people with glowing green sticks, though, are real.

    And now with movies have placed people's heads on other's bodies, never mind body-doubles. The trick is that's it's becoming better, cheaper and more widespread to create. (And I *SWEAR* that people are more gullible now-a-days than they used to be. Or maybe it's because things just move so much faster.) So we're back to a century or so ago: just because there's an audio/video of it, doesn't mean it's HAS to be true.

    No worries though, since you're innocent until proven guilty, which has worked so well with MeToo and everything else in the last few years. We'll all just have to have a 2-way shoulder mounted camera that does a real-time blockchain video feed to verify where we are all of the time and that it's really is US in the video.

    Now if blockchain would only run at Visa-level transaction speeds instead of a slow 8mm Movie Motion Picture Camera. Oh, and that's 7 BitCoin transactions system-wide and not just per camera. The limit for Litecoin is 56 TPS and the limit for Bitcoin is 7. Visa: 24,000 TPS (Link. And far be it your mounted camera loses WiFi/Cell connection or runs out of power.

    --
    If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
  11. We figured out stuff before video existed ... by drnb · · Score: 2

    Agreed. The problem is that with photos, video and voice all untrustable, what is left? How can someone come to an independent conclusion about anything?

    The same way we did before the proliferation of movie/video cameras and audio recorders. These are only very recent inventions.

    1. Re:We figured out stuff before video existed ... by joe_frisch · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We used to have sources that the majority of people believed in. Professors. Clergy, civic leaders. Not saying the trust was deserved, but at least people mostly agreed on facts. (even if they were wrong)

    2. Re:We figured out stuff before video existed ... by drnb · · Score: 2

      Eye witness testimony? Great. It is a good thing we never had a problem with false accusers and poor perception.

      Right because ...
      (1) We had nothing other than eye witness testimony, never that stuff called evidence.
      (2) And video eliminated false accusers and perception because actions are never subject to interpretation and the camera/mic catches all, its not like what happened before the video started or after it ended, what is happening out of frame, what beyond mic detection fills in unknown gaps.

      Videos gets faked all the time for political purposes and people are largely gullible and believe them. Few have the knowledge relevant to interpret a situation, not unlike eyewitness testimony.

  12. Re:Docoring photos is as old as photos themselves by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In fact, the entire legal system uses nothing but scientifically invalid "proof"... Our legal system doesn't even remotely adhere to that.

    The threshold for legal conviction in the US (and a few other countries) is "beyond a reasonable doubt" and not "absolute proof" for good reason. If you demand 100% proof, you would almost never convict anyone, and that wouldn't serve justice either. The legal system has to carefully balance the ability to obtain a conviction when warranted versus protection against false accusations. Real life tends to be a bit messier than a peer-reviewed scientific paper, and rarely deals in absolutes.

    --
    Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
  13. They are just pushing for more power by gweihir · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And what gives them power? Laws criminalizing things. There is no way in this universe they can stop this. But they can profit from it and they are certainly trying to.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  14. when politicians panic... by Kwirl · · Score: 4, Insightful

    its usually because something has come out that they haven't figured out how to manipulate or abuse. when this technology has fallen out of the news, you will know that at least some political bodies are abusing it for their benefit.

  15. No they don't. by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    People will currently believe absolutely anything provided you get the narrative right and appeal to their emotions. There's no need to even doctor videos anymore. You just have to tell them.

    1. Re:No they don't. by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Our mainstream media didn't flush anything. As said people will believe absolutely anything. One of those things they are told to believe is that the mainstream media has no credibility, and they are told this by the highest authority of one of the world's most powerful nations.

  16. Solution by Artem+S.+Tashkinov · · Score: 2

    The cat is out of the bag, now learn to live this way.

    1. Re:Solution by miekal · · Score: 2

      If I were in a position to worry about deep fakes I would pre-emptively release a deluge of preposterous fakes to amuse and inform (and promote). Like you suggest - adapt