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Alibaba To Set Up New Chip Company Amid Fear of US Tech Dependency (cnn.com)
hackingbear shares a report from CNN: China's biggest tech firm announced Wednesday that the new [semiconductor] business will develop artificial intelligence chips for cloud computing, internet-connected devices and other sectors. Alibaba's chief technology officer, Jeff Zhang, said the e-commerce company's advantages in algorithms and data put it in "a unique position to lead real technology breakthroughs in disruptive areas, such as quantum and chip technology." "The market for chips is controlled by America ... and suddenly if they stop selling, what that means, you understand," Alibaba Executive Chairman Jack Ma told university students in Tokyo in April. "That's why China, Japan and any country -- you need core technologies." Ma's remarks came shortly after the U.S. Commerce Department blocked American companies from selling parts to ZTE, a Chinese tech company that relied on U.S. suppliers, including chipmakers, to manufacture smartphones and telecommunications equipment. Slashdot reader hackingbear adds: "The since-lifted ban woke up China to the (political) risks of dependence on American technologies, just like the U.S. is afraid of dependency on Chinese rare earth products which account for ~80% of world's supplies."
dont they already have the fabs and plans for everything anyway????
Like DaDianNao, which, in simulation, can run neural networks 30x faster that GPUs per watt, MUCH smaller die (although much more application specific than gpgpu), using full fp32s not ints or bits.
Don't be fooled by Tensor Cores, memory bandwidth is the bottleneck to high-speed neural networks, not just raw GFLOPS. Large "cache" local memories close to the arithmetic cores is the key to fast NNs.
Modern networks are about several gigabytes of weights, if those are kept on-chip instead of loaded from separate RAM chips, then much more tflops can be utilized. Remember a modern graphics card only has about 500GB/s, far less bandwidth needed to load the weights and keep the arithmetic cores saturated.
Paraphrase: "Trade should not be used for war, but should instead foster peace."
This does shed some light on the full ramifications of protectionist trade policy... much like thermonuclear war, there are no winners.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
...America would be wise to construct its own rare earth magnet production facilities.
The rare earth metal monopoly the Chinese have is only predicated on their propensity to rape their environment with horrific processing of said metals.
Before China, the US was the biggest producer. It just so happened a Chinese company bought out the US one thanks to Billy "didn't inhale" Clinton administration's inability to understand long term plans.
The second they decide to screw with sales is the second another producer will come out and usurp them (like the Japanese recently did).
It just means that companies like Apple will have to take a 950% markup over their usual 1000%.
China developed this huge industry around bitcoin ASICs and mining.
The excess capacity can now be used to make AI chips.
As the cliche goes, "every future product will have a little bit of AI in them"
I enjoy watching this trade war for some twisted reason. It's like a slow-motion showdown at the Not O.K. Corral. I might change my mind when our collective eye gets put out, but for now the show is bigly great.
China is acting really nervous, while Mr. Orange is giddy jabbing sticks into their beehive (and all beehives for that matter).
Table-ized A.I.
... has a chilling effect on our trade. It's so unfair!
Will we see a division named Alibaba and the Forty Thieves?
Have gnu, will travel.
Really nothing like using a threat instead of action. Not even the Russians were silly enough to fall for that, and always made us deploy before they would negotiate a reduction.
In this case I can't even count the number of times China is going to develop it's own OS, it's going to Develop it's own X86 clone. You know what it's true. They will do it as soon as they figure they can steal what they need to make it happen and it's in their interest to do so. If you think otherwise you haven't been paying attention since Nixon opened up China.
So knowledgeable. Except as reported right here on Slashdot numerous times this year, China has already licensed x86 from AMD and are in fact producing their own chips which are almost identical to Epyc.
So knowledgeable. Except as reported right here on Slashdot numerous times this year, China has already licensed x86 from AMD and are in fact producing their own chips which are almost identical to Epyc.
Go back to crapping your pants over threats from China.
It just that sim-le. Consolidating chip design and manufacturing into a few companies in China was always a Bad Idea. We need competition and diversity. Each nation needs to do it's own thing.
Remember: Diversity Is Our Strength.
also ARM was bought out by japanese. Nvidia has nice chips tho they are taiwanese. So it's not all intel chips but those are the strongest. Currently.
So knowledgeable. Except as reported right here on Slashdot numerous times this year, China has already licensed x86 from AMD and are in fact producing their own chips which are almost identical to Epyc.
Yeah what's your point ? That just reinforces what I said an you were too dense to understand. China is doing things that make sense for China, when they make sense for China displacing dependence on western IP by hook or by crook has always been their game.
It's only dimwits like you that believe it when they say things like "Oh we wouldn't of done this really we wouldn't but you forced our hand, how bout kissing our ass to make it right"
Power processors absolutely cream anything by Intel due to their thread count alone.
That's why Google opted to use them for their data centers.
Oh, you wanted "Artificial Intelligence" chips; not artificial "Intelligence Chips."
Yeah what's your point ? That just reinforces what I said an you were too dense to understand.
Obviously my point was that it's already happened. Yeah, I feel so stupid.
I can only speculate what meaning you inferred from my comment. The mind boggles.
Yeah what's your point ? That just reinforces what I said an you were too dense to understand.
Obviously my point was that it's already happened. Yeah, I feel so stupid.
Yeah seeing as you can't distinguish an ongoing process from one time events.
I must be retarded because I swear I just get more and more confused the more posts of yours I read.
It's like how Germany and the rest of the NATO "allies" are threatening to increase their defense spending to the required 2% by 2024. It'll never happen, but it sounds good.
Can anyone tell me why we have a military alliance with them? To have a military alliance, you have to have a military. They're just free riding on us and laughing all the way to the bank. They have nice things because they don't have to pay for defense. Then they sneer at us because we're militarist fascist baby-killers. Why do we not bring this to an end? It is clearly not an advantageous situation.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Officially NATO was founded as a way to be prepared for when Germany rises again and starts anotger world war.
Also officially, Soviet Russia applied for membership, and was denied. Shortly after, Germany itself became a member of this alliance against themselves.
And they pay for their own weapons. So far there has been only one NATO member who has ever been tardy with their payments (and it's not Germany).
You tell me why you have this alliance.
I don't know, man. That's a really good question. Why the hell are we in the business of defending Europe from...the Germans? Why isn't it Europe's responsibility? Why aren't they paying for themselves? They can't even pay the minimum 2%. They're cheapskates, and ungrateful ones at that. They repay our generosity with hateful rhetoric about how we are baby-killing monsters who need to get out of Europe. Yaknow, I agree with them.
Do we really have something to lose as Americans if we pull back our external activity? The Cold War is over, and it seems the more fingers we have in pies like NATO, the Middle Eastern countries, and so forth, the more problems we create.
Let Europe defend Europe. They are not incapable nascent and fragile democracies anymore. Giving Europe its self-determination is the mark of a true ally. Granted, it might mean compromises to their various social welfare states or tax increases because military might is expensive, but it is their decision to make.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
More info on Dadiannow and related projects
https://www.zhihu.com/question...
Tianshi Chen, the author of Dadiannow has become the CEO of Cambricon Technologies Corporation Limited, which has produced the AI chip to be included inside Huawei latest ARM-based CPU SOC, Kirin 980
http://novel.ict.ac.cn/tchen/
Your whole argument is flawed. One of the most social welfare states in Europe is Sweden and they aren't even in NATO. So you can have both. You Americans don't have it because you simply don't want to.
Back in the Cold War the countries now in the EU had vastly more military spending and in fact had more social benefits than they have now, where much of it has been privatized.
Don't feel bad about it, I'm just as confused as you trying to follow this. I would have thought licensing x86 from AMD would be a one time event, apparently it's not? I also thought such licensing would negate the need to develop a x86 clone totally from scratch, but apparently not? I don't know as much as I would like to about this subject, obviously, but reading the back and forth is very confusing.
I would also bet a pretty penny this response will get at least one terrible response with a 75% chance of name calling, as that is the normal now on /.
Nobody gets my ugly penny, it's mine!
Why the hell are we in the business of defending Europe from...the Germans?
I'm not sure, but I'm guessing it makes good money for the military industrial complex. American arms dealers make up half the top 10 list in sales
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Or it might just be the will of the American people themselves (I know you personally don't like it, but you aren't a dictator; you alone do not represent the people of the US). Last I checked you guys were still a Republic with democratic systems. You (collectively) voted for it.
Why isn't it Europe's responsibility? Why aren't they paying for themselves?
It is. They are.
It seems like you have zero understanding of how NATO works. NATO isn't making the US "pays for" or "responsible for" defending other countries. Each country has always been and still is responsible for their own defense, has their own military, which they pay for themselves.
Being in NATO just means that if any one member gets attacked, it is considered an attack on all of the alliance, and other alliance members may come to assist (with their own military which again is paid for by each respective country themselves). This is spelled out in article 5 of the NATO charter.
The one and only time this article was invoked so far, btw, is when the US was attacked on 9/11, and so rest of NATO did come to the US's aid. NATO members members set up patrols to restrict terrorists movements just in case there were further attacks on the US. Then they joined the US in various anti-terror operations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Read: it was the rest of NATO that helped defend America in its time of need.
They can't even pay the minimum 2%.
There is no minimum. 2% is just a guideline. A suggestion, with no binding power. Each country is *gasp* their own sovereign country and gets to decide their own military budgets. They could go higher. They could go lower. It's their decision to make.
They're cheapskates, and ungrateful ones at that.
Nah, they're just more efficient. It's not the size that matters, but how you use it, my boy.
Let's not forget that despite all your spending, 9/11 happened on American soil, which as said above, those "ungrateful" NATO countries did come to America's aid.
They repay our generosity
What generosity? Again, each country pays for their own defense. The US's defense spending is generosity going to American soldiers (and by extension, American arms dealers)
Or by generosity do you mean all those refugees that are fleeing into Europe, who are fleeing mostly because of failed American foreign policy (as mentioned above, most forays in the war on terror were American-led)?
hateful rhetoric about how we are baby-killing monsters who need to get out of Europe. Yaknow, I agree with them.
You've got it backwards. The hateful rhetoric started in America, from Americans themselves, with some Europeans agreeing.
It's American hippies and lunatic leftists who started screaming about how American imperialism is ruining the world and need to get out of, like, everywhere.
It's American religious nutjobs screaming about baby killing and abortions
It's American far right who carried tiki torches at Charlottesville shouting about blood and soil and hating on certain groups of people.
America is the one that is outputting hate, with only a few Europeans in agreement. Most Europeans actually just offer sympathy like "man, you guys sure got it rough, here's how we do things over here, it's worked for us, so maybe you can learn and see if you can apply some of it for the US". Their kind advice (you could even say this is their generosity) is met wit
china already makes their own chips (memory, cpu) and has their own os (kylin). that's not the issue here. AI on a chip is.
nothing to see here - move along
china already makes their own chips (memory, cpu) and has their own os (kylin). that's not the issue here. AI on a chip is.
And China has been pursuing it's own AI strategy all along. Given its military and economic importance (scale of 1 to 10 it's about a 90) is there a chance in hell they will willingly be dependent on any outside nation for the tech ?
and cloud (cloud city) and supercomputer, gps, hyper-speed weapons, airplanes, etc., etc....we have more money and know-how for now...but it won't be for long
nothing to see here - move along
That's a stupid move since most silicon companies are having a difficulty reaching 7nm to 4nm. It's the end of the line for silicon and even other materials but these fools think it's a good time to step into the game. Ha!
Why the hell are we in the business of defending Europe from...the Germans? Why isn't it Europe's responsibility?
And how come Germany is part of the defense against itself? How does that make sense?
Why aren't they paying for themselves?
They are. Every NATO member has to pay for the upkeep of the NATO.
They can't even pay the minimum 2%.
Nobody can without going into ever increasing national debt. And the Maastrict criteria for the Euro's stability don't allow that.
I know that 2% doesn't seem like much, but it's of the GDP, not of tax revenue. So these 2% can be a multiple of a government's entire budget.
Especially when only a small percentage of the budget goes to the military, as is the case is most countries.
They're cheapskates
As I said: There is only one NATO member who has ever been late with their payments. And it is not a European one.
They repay our generosity with hateful rhetoric about how we are baby-killing monsters who need to get out of Europe. Yaknow, I agree with them.
What generosity? Nobody invited you.
There wouldn't even have been a Cold War if not for the military's fear mongering so that they could keep riding the gravy train of a war-time economy.
As General Eisenhower put it: Every war ship is bread stolen from a number of families.
That Germany was not a threat after it had been occupied was blatantly obvous when it was made a member of the alliance that was ostensibly against itself.
So what is it really about?
Do we really have something to lose as Americans if we pull back our external activity? The Cold War is over, and it seems the more fingers we have in pies like NATO, the Middle Eastern countries, and so forth, the more problems we create.
I see it the same way.
The USA are spending more money on the military than the next five biggest spenders combined. That is insane.
That is a lot of starving American families.
Giving Europe its self-determination is the mark of a true ally.
You say that as if you were in a position to give that.
As if you owned Europe.
You don't.
Europe is self-determined, and always has been.
The oldest democracies in the world are all European countries. Even the word itself is from a European language.
You are not in a position to grant them anything, and, sadly, you have nothing of value left to offer.
Granted, it might mean compromises to their various social welfare states or tax increases
Quite the opposite.
NATO is expensive to maintain. More expensive than a purely domestic military. Every member country could save a fortune if they dropped out.
But the military is adamant about the importance of maintaining a military to protect us from the military.
It is a parasite, a leech on the world's economy that latches onto weak countries and bleeds them dry.
Japan and South Korea aren't even bordering the North Atlantic.
Why don't you grant them independence?
So you don't have a problem with us disbanding NATO then. As it is obviously not needed.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Correct. I fully support the disbanding of NATO.
LOL. Putin's panzers would be in Paris in no time. Europeans won't fight for their countries and their militaries are an underfunded joke. Biting the hand that feeds you. Nice.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Putin's panzers would be in Paris in no time.
Unlikely. Not only has Putin never started a war, France is also an important business partner for Russia. And there are a few countries between Russia and France.
Europeans won't fight for their countries and their militaries are an underfunded joke.
No, they are busy fighting for your country, and paying for it with their own taxes.