Facebook Could Face EU Sanctions If It Doesn't Change Its TOS (theverge.com)

According to Reuters, Facebook could face sanctions for not complying with the European Union's consumer rules. "Back in February, the company was told to change its users terms and conditions to recently updated EU standards, but it has yet to do so," The Verge reports. From the report: In February, Facebook changed its terms of service, but to EU officials, it wasn't enough. "While Google's latest proposals appear to be in line with the requests made by consumer authorities, Facebook and, more significantly, Twitter, have only partially addressed important issues about their liability and about how users are informed of possible content removal or contract termination," the European Commission stated in a press release at the time.

As detailed back in February, authorities want Facebook to better protect consumers' rights, including the ability to withdraw from an online purchase, sue in Europe and not in California where Facebook is based. The EU also wants more consumer-friendly rules around the social media platform's legal liability when its service performs poorly. According to Reuters, Facebook's non-compliance contrasts with Airbnb's obedience, as the rental platform adjusted its terms of service recently after being asked to do so back in July. Airbnb is now more transparent about pricing details and has better terms for consumers using its platform in the EU.

Comments

EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Anonymous Coward]

They're big enough to follow the law or GTFO, you go EU!

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Chas]

Honestly I'm not really sure I can root for either side.

Yes, FB is terrible.
But the EU is AT LEAST equal in how terrible it is.

Not sure there's actually an acceptable "winner" in this.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[serviscope_minor]

Honestly I'm not really sure I can root for either side.

That's cos you're a dumbass, just saying.

But the EU is AT LEAST equal in how terrible it is.

No it isn't.

Not sure there's actually an acceptable "winner" in this.

The EU.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Anonymous Coward]

In what way is EU terrible?

Remember that Putin is investing a lot in creating animosity towards EU to make more countries leave.
Just saying that EU is terrible or "undemocratic" isn't going to fly. You'll have to go into specifics if you don't want to be disregarded as just another Putinbot.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[serviscope_minor]

if you don't want to be disregarded as just another Putinbot.

He's not a putinbot, he's been here for donkeys years. He is however a useful idiot.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Anonymous Coward]

The EU is terrible because of all their bullshit regulation that they put in place while large swathes of the countries are against it.
Just look at the recent link tax, the forced migration policies, the TPP (or was it TTIP?). People hate it so much that even the people voting on it are not allowed to have copies so they can't leak it to the populace and cause an uproar.
What the hell kind of government is that?
Now we have germany constantly pushing for a 4th Reich style EU army.
Junker is threatening to ban English because he is ass blasted that no one likes french and he wants to teach the brits a lesson for daring to try to leave.
The EU is a giant shit show.
The only good things about it are the ability to travel within europe, easily work anywhere, and use the same currency everywhere.
All the other shit is not needed. I don't know exactly what EU leadership is trying to create but I think it can only fall apart.
There is no "European identity", so turning it into a single country will never work.
And the process they call "democracy" is laughable.
Sure, we get to vote for the MEPs, but then they hamstring everything so much that they have very little influence.
There was an issue recently where one of them explained how voting works there, and it comes down to basically keeping you locked up until you get a yes vote.
WTF is that?

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[hcs_$reboot]

But the EU is AT LEAST equal in how terrible it is.

Again, GDPR. If you see anything detrimental to the end user in this, you're probably working for FB (...).

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Chas]

Well. Their French model "Guilty until you prove innocence" justice.
The fact that all the people with actual power are unelected and unaccountable.
The fact that if the people with the power don't want something passed, it either isn't addressed, or they play parlimentary games to assure that the vote goes their way. And there's no way, beyond violence, to actually redress anything.
The fact that what they're pushing for is the EU, which was merely supposed to be a trade alliance, as a totalitarian super-state and stealing the right of ACTUAL self-government from the member nations.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Chas]

Again, reasoned arguments.
Not slurs.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Chas]

The problem is, when both sides are blatantly anti-individualistic, whether FB wins, or the EU wins, it's nothing but Bad for the end user.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[moronoxyd]

Sorry? Did you have an actual argument?

Do you have an actual argument?

To chose a winner here you have to look at where each party stands on the issue at hand. Saying that FB is horrible in general and that the EU is even worse in general doesn't help in regards to this specific case.

The EU wants FB to follow the law of the land when doing business in the EU. FB doesn't want to change it's TOS to conform to the law.
The laws in question strengthen consumer rights and consumer protections.

So for me, the winner in this case is clearly the EU.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[moronoxyd]

When the laws are arbitrary and simply meant as cash grabs, or punishments for the "crime" of being US-based?

[...]

So please don't try to paint me as a "'Murica Fuck Yeah!" idiot.

We don't have to. You clearly are doing it yourself.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Anonymous Coward]

The EU is terrible because of all their bullshit regulation that they put in place while large swathes of the countries are against it.

Large swathes?

Just look at the recent link tax, the forced migration policies, the TPP (or was it TTIP?). People hate it so much that even the people voting on it are not allowed to have copies so they can't leak it to the populace and cause an uproar.

Sorry, but the copy disallowance was forced by the US.

What the hell kind of government is that?
Now we have germany constantly pushing for a 4th Reich style EU army.

What?

Junker is threatening to ban English because he is ass blasted that no one likes french and he wants to teach the brits a lesson for daring to try to leave.

Noone, even not Junker is threatening UK. They just made a dumb decision. That's all. And simply their problem.

The EU is a giant shit show.
The only good things about it are the ability to travel within europe, easily work anywhere, and use the same currency everywhere.
All the other shit is not needed. I don't know exactly what EU leadership is trying to create but I think it can only fall apart.

You really have no clue what it takes to have a single currency, right?

There was an issue recently where one of them explained how voting works there, and it comes down to basically keeping you locked up until you get a yes vote.
WTF is that?

You also don't have any idea about what you are talking. So what's the difference?

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Zocalo]

The fact that all the people with actual power are unelected and unaccountable.

Oh, please, the EU has not been the EEC for literally a few decades now. The people within the EU this misinformation is generally referring to are the EU's equivalent of high-level civil servants, you know, those people that are not typically elected by the general public in every single democracy, including the UK and US where this issue is particularly relevant right now. They are, however, is appointed by elected representatives - MEPs in the case of the EU, Senate confirmation hearings in the case of the US and (in theory at least) are managed by and report into elected representatives, albeit with some exceptions, like maintaining at least a semblence of separation between legislature and judiciary. Yes, the politicians will tend to appoint and promote civil servants that lean the same way politically that they do, but you do get to choose your politicians, so you reap what you sow - case in point, a certain judge aspiring to the Supreme Court in the US right now. The EU also has a backstop; the civil servants can (and do) propose some ridiculous things, but ultimately those things also need the assent of the elected MEPs before they can become legislation, which is more than can be said for some of the mandarins in the UK and US' civil service.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[dunkelfalke]

This is kind of a stupid argument. A government cannot be individualistic and neither can a company. Only a single person can be that.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Megol]

Well. Their French model "Guilty until you prove innocence" justice.quote>

I assume you have examples?

The fact that all the people with actual power are unelected and unaccountable.

One could say the same about the US (supreme court) however that would be equally false.

The fact that if the people with the power don't want something passed, it either isn't addressed, or they play parlimentary games to assure that the vote goes their way.

Examples?

And there's no way, beyond violence, to actually redress anything.

Obviously false.

The fact that what they're pushing for is the EU, which was merely supposed to be a trade alliance, as a totalitarian super-state and stealing the right of ACTUAL self-government from the member nations.

They? The ideas what the EU should be are many.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Megol]

So you are an idiot. Doing work in the EU, targeting EU citizens while not following EU law that includes the protection* of individual rights to a degree the US will never reach** means one will get punished according to EU law. If the main company then is based in the EU or not isn't relevant.

(* sometimes to IMHO extremes as seen with the right-to-be-forgotten thing)
(** in some cases perhaps that's good, in most I think not)

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[serviscope_minor]

Again, reasoned arguments. Not slurs.

I love you you post a stupid opinion with zero to back it up and then expect everyone else to jump though some sort of weird formal debating hoops when engaging with you.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[cheesybagel]

The MEPs in the European Parliament only have a right to veto.

The main power of the European Union is in the council of ministers. One per country. The problem is, ever since the Eastern European countries joined, Germany got themselves a bunch of lackeys which just rubber stamp whatever they want to pass. I still remember the brazen comments of the Slovak prime-minister once when there were dissenting voices in the Council regarding the treatment of Greece.

Who was it that decided to just give a free pass to any emigrants that came to the EU? It was Germany and their lackeys.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[cheesybagel]

No. In the EU the organ with the most power is the Council of Ministers, which has the Prime-Minister (or equivalent chief of the executive) of each country in the EU. They can both create laws, enact them, and veto them. The second organ with the most power is the pseudo-executive branch of the EU which is the European Comission. It has a President and a bunch of commissioners for different branches of the economy. The have the power to create and enact laws. They used to be directly chosen by the Council of Ministers. There is now a confirmation vote in the European Parliament but it is mostly for show. Then there is the European Parliament, with directly elected MEPs, which only has a right to veto.

So it's closer to the USSR's system where locally appointed political leaders elected the regional leaders, then in turn selected the national leader. This kind of political formation is hardly new, it dates back at least to the Mongol Empire. It creates a more stable, albeit more corrupt system.

There were attempts to make the EU a Federation, but rather interestingly, the UK was the leading opponent against it. They never wanted it to go past a confederation. Where the national governments have the most to say. So the European Parliament is mostly toothless.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[serviscope_minor]

The fact that all the people with actual power are unelected and unaccountable.

That's a complete fabrication.

MEPs get actualy meaningful votes and are elected. The EU council which has considerable power is drawn from elected officials from the represented countries.

The EU commission is a bunch of civil servants who aren't elected in any system ever.

The fact that if the people with the power don't want something passed, it either isn't addressed, or they play parlimentary games to assure that the vote goes their way

Yes that's called democracy. Vote in people with power. If those people don't want something to happen, it doesn't happen.

And there's no way, beyond violence, to actually redress anything.

Wel that and voting for someone else.

as a totalitarian super-state

You have certainly proven you don't know anything about the EU or totalitarianism.

stealing the right of ACTUAL self-government from the member nations

So if you offer someone cool shit to be part of your club (where they have to abide by the rules), then that's theft when members can leave at any time for any reason. Right. You're an idiot by the way.

The UK's decided to leave as you may recall. Though oddly enough we stop getting all the cool shit. That last part seems to have come as something as a surprise to the Brexiters. They were warned of course but they called the warnings "project fear". Unfortunately calling it so isn't enuogh to persuade M. Barnier to keep giving us all the cool shit.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[AmiMoJo]

Chas has had the EU explained to him multiple times, and he still doesn't understand it. I wouldn't waste your time.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Zocalo]

Mostly different groups of people to the civil servants I was mostly talking about - the EC being the exception - , but lets break your list down:

Council of Ministers - duly elected leaders of each member state, chosen by the preferred electoral system of each individual country.
European Comission - not directly elected, but confirmed by the elected European Parliament (MEPs) even mostly for show, as I noted.
European Parliament - as we both noted, elected by those EU citizens who can be bothered to do so, and with power of veto over the EC, which they can and do use. This is, in effect, a similar relationship to the UK's Houses of Commons and Lords, so not really something the UK is in a position to scream and shout about being "undemocratic" if they're not also saying the same about the Lords (which many are, to be fair).

No, it's definitely not perfect, but it's somewhat ironic that the country doing the most bitching and moaning about it is also the same one that has used its veto to block many of the attempts to improve it. That's one hidden benefit to Brexit for the EU's federalists at least; once the UK's boat anchor is removed it might at least be a bit easier for the remaining 27 countries to move forwards - assuming they can successfully marginalise those in other governments that are toying with similar notions, anyway.

Re: EU needs to knock FB TFO

[houghi]

Nice how you decide that the"only" thing that is nice is the reason for tge EU. And to guarantee that, other things need to be decided on that level as well.

And onviously you will find many people who are against some things. That is normal.

Yes, there are things I hate here. That is also normal. The general idea is that there are more positive ideas than negative ideas.

And aboutnot having a European Identity. The majority of people do not even have a common identity in their own country, exceptif there is some footbal on tv. So that is of no importance either to anybody.

The majority of the Brits tegret to be leaving and politically they try to find a way back in, without losing face.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Chas]

I've explained about the EU elsewhere in this thread.
FB. Giant faceless company hoovering personal information and enforcing their TOS in a blatantly, politically partisan manner.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Chas]

If you say so.

To me, it's like saying "Do you want the shit sandwich? Or the shit hoagie?"

Re: EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Chas]

Ah! A EU denialist.

Come on back when you're rational.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Chas]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

From the mouth of an actual MEP: https://youtu.be/pXAlM2UosC0

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Chas]

I've actually had the EU explained to me BY AN MEP.
I get it. Which is why I'm opposed to the EU in principle as well as in actuality.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Chas]

So you're going to go with slurs.

Okay. Thanks for your time.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[angel'o'sphere]

no, the winners are the european citizens.
When the TOS is changed, I can put photos on facebook without fear that they steal them and monetize them.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[angel'o'sphere]

Basically all your points are wrong.
Where did you pick them up?

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[angel'o'sphere]

The MEPs in the European Parliament only have a right to veto.
That is bollocks. The EP works exactly like any other parliament in the EU.

I wonder when we get rid of assholes like you balantly lying about the EU political system.

Who was it that decided to just give a free pass to any emigrants that came to the EU? It was Germany and their lackeys.
There is no such thing, idiot!

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[angel'o'sphere]

Well. Their French model "Guilty until you prove innocence" justice.
Neither any european state nor the EU has that "justice".

What kind of moron are you?

The fact that all the people with actual power are unelected and unaccountable.
That is wrong.

as a totalitarian super-state and stealing the right of ACTUAL self-government from the member nations.
Thats is completely wrong, who brainwashed you that way?

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[angel'o'sphere]

Strange that the EP does not know that it only has the power to veto and is bringing law after law into existence.
How does that work? Even more conspiracy? The commision is inacting secretly the laws crafted by the EP?

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[thegarbz]

If you say so.

To me, it's like saying "Do you want the shit sandwich? Or the shit hoagie?"

The sandwich! Why the fuck would you chose the hoagie. Hoagies are big and typically loaded with ingredients. In a sandwich you could barely get a table spoon of shit in it, on the hoagie you get get your entire dog's previous night's dinner.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[thegarbz]

But the EU is AT LEAST equal in how terrible it is.

Oh please do tell. All of us here living in our wonderful "socialism" would love to know why we shouldn't outrank the USA in happiness and well-being indices.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[sabri]

no, the winners are the european citizens.

The EU cititizens already lost when Brussel illegally staged a coup against the parliamentary democracies of its nation members.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[jimbobxxx]

I've actually had the EU explained to me BY AN MEP. I get it. Which is why I'm opposed to the EU in principle as well as in actuality.

Nigel Farage does not have an impartial opinion

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[angel'o'sphere]

The EU cititizens already lost when Brussel illegally staged a coup against the parliamentary democracies of its nation members.

And when exactly happened that?

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[AmiMoJo]

Which MEP? Was his name Nigel?

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Chas]

It wasn't Farage.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[Chas]

Nope.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[cheesybagel]

Point to one law they made. All EU directives either come from the Council of Ministers or the European Commission.

Europarl only has the right to veto the directives.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[RockDoctor]

The shit in question being Facebook.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[angel'o'sphere]

You want to say, when An EU directive is proposed to the parliament, and the vote of the parliament is 55% against it 45% for it: they executed their veto right, but did not actually vote about it?
I think you are an idiot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
https://europa.eu/european-uni...

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[cheesybagel]

There are ways to torpedo the Parliament and it has happened before. Like the Comission emits a directive, the Parliament flunks it, then the Council of Ministers passes it anyway. The European Parliament cannot veto the Council of Ministers which basically have all powers.

In other countries laws are discussed in the Parliament and can be proposed by the several groups in the Parliament. But the European Parliament is not like that. All directives come from the Comission. The Parliament cannot propose squat.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[angel'o'sphere]

The Parliament cannot propose squat.
Of course it can.

the Parliament flunks it, then the Council of Ministers passes it anyway.
Are you retarded? No they don't. Because: THEY CAN'T.

Perhaps you like to read this:

The European Council defines the EU's overall political direction and priorities. It is not one of the EU's legislating institutions, so does not negotiate or adopt EU laws.

From: http://www.consilium.europa.eu...

I'm tired about people who have no clue how the EU works.
IT WORKS EXACTLY LIKE A COUNTRY!!! Parliament = EP, cabinet = european commission, and because the EU is a kind of federation, it also has the european council, consisting of heads of state or delegates of the governments of the states as European Council.

Germany is structured EXACTLY the same: parliament, cabinet, german federational council.
UK is structured exactly the same: parliament, cabinet, house of lords.

You are simply an idiot, why do I waste my time with you ....

What the fuck is wrong with you that you can not get that it is as democratic as possible on one side and involving the member states governments as maximal as possible on the other side? After all the european governments who put members into the european commission and european council: are voted for by the respective populations of those member states.

What kind of idiot are you?

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[cheesybagel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

"However, in most areas the ordinary legislative procedure applies meaning both Council and Parliament share legislative and budgetary powers equally, meaning both have to agree for a proposal to pass. In a few limited areas the Council may initiate new EU law itself."

European Council != Council of Ministers

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[cheesybagel]

Yeah a lot of people don't know how the EU works and you are a one of them. Except I prefer to call those people ignorant, whereas you preferred to call me an idiot when you are the one who's an ignorant.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[cheesybagel]

Whereas the Prime Ministers can simply veto a law and pass it to the relevant Council with the Ministers in that sector to pass it, torpedoing the Parliament if they want to. In fact that's how the European Union started. The Parliament is a latter addition to the system and it clearly shows.

Re:EU needs to knock FB TFO

[angel'o'sphere]

Sure, then you are an ignorant idiot.

Re:2019

[Actually, I do RTFA]

I mean, sure, Facebook doesn't have to do business with the EU. It'll tank their stock price to give up their second most valuable market, but it's up to them.

Re: 2019

[Misagon]

You'd be surprised about how many things you might think are US but which have European origin.
Just in the city where I live, we have Spotify, Skype, Mojang, development centres for HTC, Sony and Huawei, and the bulk of Oracle's Java development. MySQL is an hour away.

As to music: A few blocks from where I live is an music studio, operated by Max Martin who produced Taylor Swift, Ariana Grande, Christina Aguilera, Katy Perry among others... i.e. the most successful US pop artists of the last decade. Made in Europe.

And yeah, the WWW was developed at CERN. Guess what the E stands for.

Re: 2019

[Richard_at_work]

ARM. Nuff said really.

Re:2019

[hcs_$reboot]

"We can access your sites, feeding you with tons of our personal data, from which you make huge money without a bit of ethical consideration therefore they must comply with -- to prevent more privacy outbreaks"

FTFY.

Changing TOS is not enough!

[kaur]

Should Facebook change their documents or their behaviour?

ToS and privacy policy only describe what a company does or promises to do.
They are reflections, not the true thing.
GDPR should change how our data is used, not how it is described.

Re:Changing TOS is not enough!

[angel'o'sphere]

Facebook TOS claims that I had agreed that all my posts are copyrighted by FB.
That is nonsense under EU laws. My posts are copyrighted by me, who else?

Re:I don't get this argument.

[Freischutz]

Facebook isn't doing business with the EU. European companies are doing business with Facebook (buying ads etc). They can continue doing that even if the actual transactions happen in the US, right?

Even if that is true, In the end the money to pay for those transactions comes form Europe. Since Facebook like any good corporation cheats on its taxes and considers itself entitled to do so, the EU can easily give them a hard time over that. The EU can also make their life hell in other ways until Facebook comes to heel. When you are a market of 500 million people you can do that because no matter how you turn it, Facebook is not going to piss of the people in charge of a market that size nor are Facebook Google, Apple or anybody else going to abandon a market area that size, with that many consumers of US services and medium to high end US made products to go back to the US, put on a MAGA hat and and sulk.

Re: 2019

[DNS-and-BIND]

Far too many people think that "the internet" means "the WWW" and get the idea that the Americans selfishly took credit for it.

The internet was a better place before Europe inflicted us with the WWW.

There's a really simple Blockchain solution!

[goombah99]

Facebook should take all of it's user data, encrypt it, and then put into the bitcoin block chain (or alternatively the slashdot comments section). They can then retrieve it anytime they want, it can never be deleted, and the EU can't make them delete what they don't have on their own servers. Problem solved.

I've been backing up my hard drive to Slashdot comments for year. I have a hidden markov generator that encodes the data into english nerdy sentences.

Re: There's a really simple Blockchain solution!

[houghi]

You are aware that they have deleted postings in the past, right?

Re:I don't get this argument.

[Actually, I do RTFA]

They show the ads to EU citizens (in the EU). That's what conversation is talking about. Facebook saying "well then, EU citizens cannot use FAcebook." Cause, well, that's going to be bad.

Don't be surprised if companies "boycott" the EU

[davidwr]

Don't be surprised if companies start to hide EU-law-violating and even EU-legally-questionable content if they think you are accessing it from within the EU or are an EU citizen.

If doing so "breaks" their economic model - say, by putting onerous burdens on the hosting company or by making an ad-based model infeasible, they may charge for access from the EU or deny access altogether.

An "EU-surcharge" approach or even a "NO SOUP FOR YOU!" approach may put pressure on voters to put pressure on their EU MPs to loosen up a bit.

Re:2019

[BlueStrat]

I mean, sure, Facebook doesn't have to do business with the EU. It'll tank their stock price to give up their second most valuable market, but it's up to them.

Sorry, the US and China are the two top markets, the EU is a distant third at best and falling further back as China's markets expand and grow. FB's stock prices would take a hit, but only briefly.

I say that everyone (FB, Netflix, Google, Apple, MS, etc etc) should simply blackhole EU IP ranges until they wake from their collective fever-dream.

After EU citizens torch a few cities and possibly a few EU political leaders, those (surviving) EU political leaders might reconsider their foolishness.

Strat

Re: Don't be surprised if companies "boycott" the

[houghi]

That already happens now. Their should be a list to help non -EU people know what sites sell their data.

Re: 2019

[angel'o'sphere]

You are confusing the crowd with to many facts!