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The New Yorker on Linus Torvalds (newyorker.com)
Linus Torvalds announced on Sunday that he was sorry for how he treated the community over the years. Torvalds, 48, said he planned to make some changes to how he conducted himself, and on that part, he said he would be taking some time off from Linux kernel development work. The New Yorker has published a story on Torvalds today in which it notes that it reached out to Torvalds days before he made the big announcement. From the story, which may be paywalled for some readers: Torvalds's decision to step aside came after The New Yorker asked him a series of questions about his conduct for a story on complaints about his abusive behavior discouraging women from working as Linux-kernel programmers. In a response to The New Yorker, Torvalds said, "I am very proud of the Linux code that I invented and the impact it has had on the world. I am not, however, always proud of my inability to communicate well with others -- this is a lifelong struggle for me. To anyone whose feelings I have hurt, I am deeply sorry."
Torvalds's response was conveyed by the Linux Foundation, which supports Linux and other open-source programming projects and paid Torvalds $1.6 million in annual compensation as of 2016. The foundation said that it supported his decision and has encouraged women to participate but that it has little control over how Torvalds runs the coding process. "We are able to have varying degrees of impact on these outcomes in newer projects," the statement said. "Older more established efforts like the Linux kernel are much more challenging to influence."
Linux's elite developers, who are overwhelmingly male, tend to share their leader's aggressive self-confidence. There are very few women among the most prolific contributors, though the foundation and researchers estimate that roughly ten per cent of all Linux coders are women. "Everyone in tech knows about it, but Linus gets a pass," Megan Squire, a computer-science professor at Elon University, told me, referring to Torvalds's abusive behavior. "He's built up this cult of personality, this cult of importance."
Torvalds's response was conveyed by the Linux Foundation, which supports Linux and other open-source programming projects and paid Torvalds $1.6 million in annual compensation as of 2016. The foundation said that it supported his decision and has encouraged women to participate but that it has little control over how Torvalds runs the coding process. "We are able to have varying degrees of impact on these outcomes in newer projects," the statement said. "Older more established efforts like the Linux kernel are much more challenging to influence."
Linux's elite developers, who are overwhelmingly male, tend to share their leader's aggressive self-confidence. There are very few women among the most prolific contributors, though the foundation and researchers estimate that roughly ten per cent of all Linux coders are women. "Everyone in tech knows about it, but Linus gets a pass," Megan Squire, a computer-science professor at Elon University, told me, referring to Torvalds's abusive behavior. "He's built up this cult of personality, this cult of importance."
I've had a personal epiphany
oh yeah and there may possibly also be a story about me and this subject coming out in a major publication in a few days too
Obliteracy: Words with explosions
Being anti-social and lacking empathy doesn't make you a better coder, it makes you an asshole. You can be both; a good coder and a good person. Being deficient in a healthy human emotion shouldn't be a badge of honor.
I work in medicine, and while many fail at empathy, at least there is a focus on it.
I hate fat people.
It seems more and more certain that Linus has indeed fallen to one of the "honeypots" and is being blackmailed.
I hope nothing bad happens to Linus. Other lives have been ruined by the suspected group of people.
So? Linux has likely become successful exactly because of the behaviour of the developers. There's no 'fluffing' anything, it's simply good enough to go in, or shit and shouldn't be in. Linux has succeeded, and is in great shape and this has been the way since it started and likely the 'behaviour' has contributed to that directly.
If that's what it takes for this to keep succeeding, should it change? Probably not.
I'd like to see at least a couple of proofs of this egregiously dubious statement.
... I have to ask, does this mean you can suggest women are more influenced by abusive behavior, and that's not sexist?
Summary is confusing. It's talking about Linus's straight-forward or aggressive behavior and is then talks about women being discouraged from working on the kernel, as if those are related. But is there actually sexism that has been demonstrated within the kernel dev community, or is it just implied that women are less capable of working in high-stress or tense situations and that men need to act more fluffy?
That implication sounds more sexist than how the kernel dev community has operated.
Of course it's somehow unthinkable to draw the conclusions that fewer women work on the kernel because fewer women want to work on the kernel.
I always though Linus was a bit of a douche bag, but really, a lot of intelligent people who achieve "fame" or success relatively young are. I think the same personality type that leads to the dedication needed to create something as important as Linux, also tends to create less than stellar human beings.
You need a lesson on douchebaggery. Coders like Poettering are douchebags. His code will fuck up everything that others do and he maintains that it is working as designed. Not a bug. Won't fix. EVERYONE ELSE has to work around his assholery. Linus puts up with none of that shit and will tell you to your face that you suck and your code sucks. That makes him abrasive but definitely not a douchebag. The fact that others have to retreat to their safe spaces after being called out for shit work does not constitute douchebaggery on Linus' part. Do your best work and you won't be called out. If you can't do acceptable work that won't get you called out, maybe you aren't kernel developer material.
Do you think that, maybe, people with anti-social psychological makeups are drawn to a field where they don't really need to talk to anyone to accomplish something?
Most people would consider me to be a nice guy. Maybe a little off in one way or another, but I'm affable. That doesn't mean that I *like* to talk to people. I'm working from home today. I'm going to write code for nine hours straight without talking to another human being (besides occasionally looking at /. ) I'm perfectly fine with this.
I work with marketing, services and support people who can't stand not talking. They constantly come around and talk to other people about stuff, not necessarily work related. I don't mind it, but I'd rather not.
I work with people who come off as jerks if you would meet them in passing, but I understand their mindset. They don't like talking to people. It's not that they hate you, they would rather not interact with you.
This is the central disconnect, I think. People who are - I guess you can call them introverts - would simply rather not talk to other people. It's not that they don't like women, or minorities, or any other specific category of people. They don't like talking to *people* All inclusive. That doesn't make it OK. That doesn't make them not jerks. But understanding their mindset is important in dealing with them.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
1) He created the Linux kernel, which is one of the most essential pieces of software in computing today. Everything else sits on an operating system, which is the thing which interfaces with the hardware.
2) He created a wholly new management method and workflow, for this open source, distributed development process.
Casually brushing these two points aside, like he's some unremarkable CEO, doesn't do the man's achievements justice.
Once things are created, people take them for granted, like a kernel or a country.
Of course it's women
It's hilarious that hardly anyone cares thst he was mean to men, it's the WOMEN that must be coddled.
This is obviously a patronizing move, but "progressive" ppl are stupid, so they can't see that
Linux's elite developers, who are overwhelmingly male, tend to share their leader's aggressive self-confidence. There are very few women among the most prolific contributors, though the foundation and researchers estimate that roughly ten per cent of all Linux coders are women.
So women are the same as men, and if you don't think so, you are a knuckle dragging sexist.
On the other hand, women are so different from men that they bring magical special goodness to a project. So we need to do whatever we can to bring them in.
Linus didn't "build up this cult of personality, this cult of importance", he actually built one of the most important pieces of software on the planet. People respect and accept his behavior because he delivers. Nobody ever forced anybody to work with Linus.
If you don't like someone, don't work with them. If you don't like a company, don't buy their products. If you don't like who an open source project is run, fork the project and do better. Stop intruding into other people's business.
It's a choice I exercise frequently.
No, no...Poettering is a cunt.
Current social norms assume that diversity is universally beneficial for any organization working on any project. While it is obviously true for any human-facing organization, it is less clear that infrastructure projects like Linux would benefit. While diversity can be beneficial, its not without its drawbacks and costs that should be considered. For example, uniformity makes it easier to standardize or build consensus. Diversity can lead to increase of in-group formation, politicing, and turf wars.
The question that should be objectively examined, but is likely impossible to do so in a current political climate, is whether increasing diversity of the Linux contributors would lead to a better Linux kernel. Empirically, merit-based approach worked well up to this point and it isn't clear that it should be replaced by diversity-based approach. It is conceivable that all-white, all-male, all-antisocial, all-hostile group of kernel developers would produce the best possible kernel.
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that. — George Carlin
In corporate America, so much of being part of a business involves learning to suffer fools. In some way I am envious that, for this little small corner, someone gets to run the experiment of what happens if you stop playing the participation trophy game and refuse to sugar coat things to idiots when they do something really wrong.
But, it's one thing to tell people they're wrong and wasting your time bluntly. It's another to rip someone a new asshole, making sure they know you think they're being an idiot, which is very much Torvalds' style. I'm sure most people have met someone who rules by fear rather than leadership. These overly-emotional assholes are often fools themselves, but Linus is the rare form of asshole who happens to be smart and have solid logic behind the emotion. That makes me think twice about it, but doesn't exempt him from criticism for shitty leadership. I'm glad he's acknowledged the err of his ways -- there's a lot of room for him to improve while still offering blunt efficiency.
Plenty of people out there see any sort of strong self-confidence as "jerk behavior." In fact the more insecure the individual, the more hopelessly assholeish your confidence will appear to them.
You can please some of the people, all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you simply cannot please all the people all the time. Wise people don't waste effort trying.
I understand folks may not like me, but I don't make a point to cultivate dislike, neither do I actively avoid offending others at the expense of the my morals, ethics. I'm more concerned about other's best interests than having them like what I do or say. So if they don't like me, that's their issue, not mine. Some consider me an AssHat, many don't. It's up to them, it matters not to me.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
I knew this was a hit piece!
Please go look at who's behind the sadistic COC , yes the feminazi troll who caused Linus to fall on his sword: Coraline Ada Ehmke, , she's a real peach!
- a fully signed up member of the patriarchy.
Unfortunately, some people you don't please some of the time will step forward and demand your dismissal due to your "toxic attitude".
Some people demand to be pleased all the time.
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On the other hand many people think behaving as an asshole is showing confidence. As KixWooder wrote: don't conflate the two.
. . . and promote and value excellent contributions, or you can care more about someones' feelz above all else. Linux just chose the latter, initiating a well-known downward spiral of complaining and inevitable technical stagnation that's been seen many times before once these CoCs are introduced into open source projects. At the end of the day, these two things are mutually exclusive, thanks to the everything-offends-me-and-if you-don't-agree-you're-a-misogynist-racist SJW brigade. This is the logical conclusion of weaponizing CoCs which target straight white males from the get-go, particularly those authored by people who hate the idea of meritocracy.
Guess what? The real world doesn't give a *fuck* how you feel, especially in unforgiving disciplines like engineering and tech. Life ain't fair, and 99%+ of the people contributing to Linux don't give two shits about social justice one way or the other. Open source is *not* a social movement! Those people are there to code -- well -- and because they're adults they can handle a rant or two every one in awhile and even a nasty, well-deserved public undressing, and they don't need one of these batshit-crazy CoCs to tell them how to behave. The simple addition of "Don't be an asshole" would've addressed the specific concern without throwing the baby out with the bathwater while giving power to those who don't necessarily deserve it.
biology
Whoa, there, Sparky. Let's not get all crazy and talk about biological differences between the sexes. If you work at Google, please report yourself to HR so that you may be fired.
so that number will include repetitions and other people's craps, and as such it does not accurately measure the magnitude of the defendant's crime. I believe that the inquisition should be repeated with more scrupulous zeal.
And remember, even though he says that he's sorry, we're still talking about a male here, therefore he's not to be trusted: he could start again uttering mild profanities at any time.
You mean insult women by manipulating them into choosing a career that clearly many of them do not want? I can imagine that and I see clearly that this is what people like you want to do, but I find this utterly unacceptable.
For the last time: Women are adults. They can make their own choices and those that chose not to go into engineering will chose so as fully capable adults and the decision will not be because any little things. It will be because what they care about and want to be a part of. Stop regarding women as children, it is deeply misogynistic.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Also, there's a difference between doing something bad to someone, and merely not living up to their expectations.
It seems the more success and influence people attain, the more vulnerable they are to others' judgement.
For example, if you see a famous person in public and you ask for their autograph, and they refuse, that can start a chain reaction reputation of them being an "asshole" because they had the audacity to not live up to your expectations.
With something as important as the kernel, only the best effort can be accepted. His passion is fine. No one has a right to not be offended.
But Linus has engaged in personal attacks, which are NEVER necessary and always counterproductive. It's bad enough when folks take a critique of their work product personally, but you are just adding unnecessary insults when you call folks stupid, clueless, ignorant wastes of space (or some such).
I'm all about being truthful, but I'm also about being kind and respectful in the process. Linus has historically not been too concerned about respect or kindness when he's dishing out his opinions. He's just been able to get away with it due to his technical abilities and position. Where I don't want him to back off with his genius, I do think he'd be well served by a change in attitude over those who do volunteer work for him and taking a bit less confrontational approach and being more respectful of others.
It's a fine thing to build huge and beautiful sand castles but it's quite another to start throwing sand at those who are trying to help you because you don't like their work.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
That was before the age of Codes of Conduct. Now the squeaky wheel not only gets the grease, but gets the presumption of wrongdoing on your part because they were ever squeaking in the first place.
It's a lesson to everyone: bullying works.
Expect the bullying to ramp up in the coming months.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
Linux Torvalds is an arrogant asshole. But, as usual, everyone is trotting out the same old bullshit "We ain't got enuff wimmins! He be scarrin' away all the wimmins!"
No. Just fucking no. Just fuck off with your stupid bullshit.
He is an asshsole to *EVERYONE*. He is insulting and demeaning to *EVERYONE*. Not just men, not just women. Everyone.
If you're terribly upset because Linux Torvalds was mean to you, not in person but *IN A FUCKING E-MAIL* then the real problem is you, not him.
If you think *that* constitutes bullying you're priorities and empathy sensors are completely out of whack.
I think you're confusing non-profit and charity. Non-profit simply means that it doesn't have a legal obligation to maximize profits for its shareholders.
Too bad you sometimes can't even refuse to play the game.
Take Ninja, a Twitch gaming streamer. Popular, absolutely apolitical, flawless reputation. Recently, he was approached by some female streamers, who have strongly political streams, "bold statements" like painting breasts blue on live stream etc. They requested making joint streams with him. He politely refused.
Currently, Anita Sarkeesian calls him 'mysogynitst'.
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I'm sorry, from here Linux seems like a very very nice guy. Yeah, he gets super-pissed with people who waste his time. Of course he does. He's the effing kernel lead and if you didn't to your homework and keep on harping about the same bullshit although you should know better, especially if you're a paid engineer at a large famous and powerful IC company.
Yes, he uses explitives where he shouldn't and it makes him sound immature and childish and way less sophisticated than it should. Which is why he wants to improve. Kudos to him for that.
I'd take Linus as a teamlead over most others anytime. And if he were mad at me if look very carefully into what I delivered that made him made before I get back to him or simply blow it off as Linus being Linus.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Why would you step into such a minefield anywhere near work in the first place?
Don't discuss religion or politics in 'polite society'. If someone starts the discussion, I'll tell them what I think, outside work.
A 'soul soliciting pigfucker' tried to bend my ear on a flight to Salt Lake City. I think half the plane was offended by what I said about Mormonism. That was all on the soul solicitor and I told her that.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
He is insulting and demeaning to *EVERYONE*. Not just men, not just women. Everyone.
IOW, from the article:
“He is an equal-opportunity abuser,” she said. Squire added, though, that for non-male programmers the hostility and public humiliation is more isolating.
From what I've seen, it's OK to tell a white male programmer "your code is crap". But if you want to criticize the code of someone from a minority, you need to be extra careful, because you never know when they take it as an insult against their minority group. It's pretty sad, because it used to be that "on the internet, nobody knows you're a dog", and code was good because it was good code, not because it was written by a nice guy.
Still, there's an older and more general idea that if you want to play in the big leagues, you need to grow a thick skin. Linux kernel development isn't some neighbourhood hobby group where anyone can play. I just hope it continues be the big league in terms of code quality rather than political correctness. On that, Linus has a nice quote from 2013 in the same article:
“The same way I’m not going to start wearing ties, I’m also not going to buy into the fake politeness, the lying, the office politics and backstabbing, the passive aggressiveness, and the buzzwords. Because THAT is what ‘acting professionally’ results in: people resort to all kinds of really nasty things because they are forced to act out their normal urges in unnatural ways.”
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.