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Intel Addresses CPU Shortage: 'Supply Is Undoubtedly Tight' (crn.com)

Posted by msmash on from the for-the-record dept.

Intel interim CEO Bob Swan publicly addressed the company's CPU shortage issue for the first time since July, when he acknowledged that meeting additional demand would be Intel's "biggest challenge." From a report: In a message posted to Intel's website Friday, Swan said the "surprising return" to growth in the PC market "has put pressure on [the company's] factory network." He added, "We're prioritizing the production of Intel Xeon and Intel Core processors so that collectively we can serve the high-performance segments of the market. That said, supply is undoubtedly tight, particularly at the entry-level of the PC market."

Intel partners and at least one distributor previously told CRN they were seeing a shortage of Intel's current generation, 14-nanometer CPUs, most notably in lower-end client processors.

163 comments

  1. The fix is in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It only remains to be seen if AMD will charge more to make money during this unexpected "shortfall".

    1. Re:The fix is in by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Informative

      It is depending if the end users are willing to pay for it or not?
      While typically Supply vs Demand means low supply will raise the price. However the Demand of AMD Chips may not coincide the Demand for Intel Chips. Or people are willing to wait for the Intel Chips to come out. Then we need to factor the rest of the supply chain.
      Hobbyist who mash up parts to build their own PC, is a rather small market. Most of them are from the big Names, the Apple, Dell, HP, Lenovo... who have a big supply chain behind them. Having that XPS laptop switch from Intel to AMD, will need a different motherboard, which would have different shape heat considerations... So the case will need to be redesigned...

      More likely other then switching to AMD, our PC's built for Intel would just be more expensive.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re: The fix is in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did ENRON use AMD processors?

    3. Re:The fix is in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're an idiot!

    4. Re: The fix is in by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      That's a problem for the industry in general as many parts come from China. Intel has one fab and one assembly plant in China but the fab makes NAND chips for their SSDs. Intel's problem isn't helped by tariffs but the bulk of their CPU problem right now is in other countries.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    5. Re: The fix is in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your Dad Addresses WEENUR Shortage: 'Your Mom Is Undoubtedly Tight'

    6. Re:The fix is in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty suspicious about this "shortage".

      First of all Intel has quite enough money to screw up their manufacturing on purpose without hurting too badly. Now, combine that with them "compensating" for this "shortfall" by buying manufacturing capacity from TSMC as seen in other news. The very same TSMC which is otherwise a major supplier for AMD.

      Now, there's a nice anti-competitive mix which could prove quite deadly for AMD, all while providing all the necessary deniability for Intel.

    7. Re:The fix is in by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      Yes, there isn't necessarily a correlation that a shortage of intel CPU's would result in increased AMD sales.

      But that lack of correlation goes both ways. We simply don't know if it's having an affect either direction. My personal opinion is that based on recent stock moves and upgrades it has in fact had an impact in the sales channel on AMD shipments, or AMD chips are very popular in their own right, and it appears from monitoring retail channels that AMD is selling them as fast as they can make them but again that could be unrelated to the Intel supply problem, and just due to the popularity of the AMD chips.

      Without direct access to both Intel and AMD sales numbers directly from both companies you can't know for certain. The number I would be most interested in would be at the major cloud providers. They account for almost 30% of the market for server chips at this point, their is only a handful of majors (Amazon, Google, Microsoft, etc) and they are not anchored to any particular silicon. The cloud providers can easily and seamlessly change chip vendors and even architectures with little impact to their business so they represent the best view into how good any server chips actually are. If you've got that data, share it.

    8. Re:The fix is in by Agripa · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty suspicious about this "shortage".

      First of all Intel has quite enough money to screw up their manufacturing on purpose without hurting too badly. Now, combine that with them "compensating" for this "shortfall" by buying manufacturing capacity from TSMC as seen in other news. The very same TSMC which is otherwise a major supplier for AMD.

      Now, there's a nice anti-competitive mix which could prove quite deadly for AMD, all while providing all the necessary deniability for Intel.

      Intel's 10nm process (essentially the same as other company's 7nm processes) is late and processors which were suppose to be produced on 10nm are late with it creating unanticipated demand on their 14nm process. The situation is bad enough that some newer Intel south bridges have been produced to older processes to free up capacity at 14nm.

    9. Re:The fix is in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem I see is that intel CPU's are not worth the price if the OS keeps making it run slower, I would prefer some cheaper AMD processor that will be slower anyway.

  2. Sung to the Superman theme by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    3 value bflat
    sousaphone

    3 value bflat
    SOUSAPHONE!

  3. Fuck Intel. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Whats TIGHT is the NSA's hand up Intel's ASS. Fucking spyware os in our chips.

    TIME TO DISENCORPORATE INTEL.

    1. Re:Fuck Intel. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AMD has this issue as well.

      You're going to have to design your own CPU from the ground up if you want total security.

  4. If only... by RickyShade · · Score: 1

    If only there was another processor you could purchase. A processor that is fast and affordable and competes directly with Intel Xeon and Core CPUs. Perhaps made by a company whose name rhymes with OMG...

    1. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cyrix?

    2. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I wish there was but there isn't for workloads in the 1-6 thread range (for GIS) or with regards to single core performance. We have put some workstation purchases on hold for 6 months because Intel Workstation prices are 35+% right now. We tested Ryzen 2950X & 2990WX based systems and they were 15-25% slower than our previous generation Intel Xeon W 2105/W2155 series boxes

      What am I missing as someone who doesnt know hardware but understands software? Why is AMD so often trumpeted here but rarely seen in the real world? And why does AMD always perform great in benchmarks but badly in real world tests compared to Intel?

    3. Re:If only... by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And why does AMD always perform great in benchmarks but badly in real world tests compared to Intel?

      That hasn't been my experience at all. The K6 blew the doors off the P2, clock for clock, when you compiled for it. Of course, no commercial software was, but if you run Linux you can compile most things yourself and reap the rewards. And the original Athlon likewise absolutely slaughtered the P3, clock for clock. The FP performance was hilariously superior. Today, AMD only outperforms Intel abusively dollar for dollar, and yeah if you need maximum single thread performance you have to go with Intel. That only matters to gamers though, since everything else that needs much performance is multithreaded now.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re: If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes

    5. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol someone asks a legitimate question about the CURRENT CPU's and you answer about the K6?!?!?

      Not only that you then try to tell an GIS engineer or some other high end workstation user that single threaded performance doesn't matter? Despite workloads in the 1-4 thread range still accounting to over 80% of all PC workloads

      My god you are fucking retarded, no wonder they call you fanbois downs syndrome level delusional..

    6. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I wish there was but there isn't for workloads in the 1-6 thread range (for GIS) or with regards to single core performance. We have put some workstation purchases on hold for 6 months because Intel Workstation prices are 35+% right now. We tested Ryzen 2950X & 2990WX based systems and they were 15-25% slower than our previous generation Intel Xeon W 2105/W2155 series boxes

      What am I missing as someone who doesnt know hardware but understands software? Why is AMD so often trumpeted here but rarely seen in the real world? And why does AMD always perform great in benchmarks but badly in real world tests compared to Intel?

      i'm sure your workstations were fully patched with spectre and meltdown mitigations in software and in microcode when you compared them to the AMD offerings. from what i been told, most of that gap is non-existent in patched systems. meanin the only reason intel was faster was because they cheated, and when the holes, i mean cheats, were closed they perform very closely in real world conditions.

    7. Re:If only... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      And why does AMD always perform great in benchmarks but badly in real world tests compared to Intel?

      That hasn't been my experience at all. The K6 blew the doors off the P2, clock for clock, when you compiled for it.

      Lol someone asks a legitimate question about the CURRENT CPU's and you answer about the K6?!?!?

      That's not what they did. They said "always". In English, that means at minimum current and past performance, and possibly future, too. I can see why you're afraid to log in. On some level, you must know you're a total maroon.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re: If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That isnâ(TM)t what I asked dude, I donâ(TM)t know what a K6 is. I asked why they are so good in benchmarks but out in the real world nobody uses them

      This is the first time I have had the opportunity to be involved in my companyâ(TM)s sourcing of equipment and I had recommended AMD based on the glowing fanfare they get from here and other tech sites. I ended up looking like an idiot because both the boxes we received had supposedly the top end AMD cpus but when tested across our GIS modelling workflow they were both slower than cheaper costing intel boxes from the last 6-18 months. This wasnâ(TM)t just for GIS but also for weather modelling and source code compile cycles for c/c++ code. Infact the only workload they were even close was video encoding where the newer AMD boxes slightly edged the Intel

      I was disappointed to be honest but our head support engineer just laughed and gave me the old: told you so

    9. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All our existing systems are fully patched and update every Wednesday and Sunday, if they don't have an entry in the patch log db they don't get to flow data through any switch ports

      The new test boxes were patched to the same level with the same software set installed through an automated install builder

      Im a software person, I do this shit for a living, its the hardware I have little knowledge off

    10. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is exactly what I meant, stop trying to twist it to justify your clearly trolling or stupid answer

      I will be ignoring the rest of your comments, its pointless reading the replies of someone who is unable to read but still manages to be a clueless bullshitter

    11. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IWe have put some workstation purchases on hold for 6 months ... ...What am I missing as someone who doesnt know hardware but understands software?

      That you could get 6+ months processing out of an AMD workstation instead of waiting for the chance of getting a marginally faster Intel workstation some point in the future?

    12. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But they are slower than the old Intel WS configs we already have and the difference is not marginal, its significant, like 5 modeling runs in a working day instead of 3 and a bit (really only 3, we cant do half a workload then come back to it tomorrow, the data is redundant by then

      What would be the point? Why not continue using what we have until something faster is available?

    13. Re:If only... by edwdig · · Score: 4, Informative

      Today, AMD only outperforms Intel abusively dollar for dollar, and yeah if you need maximum single thread performance you have to go with Intel. That only matters to gamers though, since everything else that needs much performance is multithreaded now.

      A lot of tasks are only semi-parallel though. Take building code - you can compile lots of files in parallel, but then you have to link the executable on a single thread. Even though the majority of the work is done across multiple cores, the single core performance can still make a noticeable difference.

    14. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Are you running Windows? The Ryzen you tested use NUMA (especially the 2990WX which is four-way asymmetrical!) and sometimes fair badly because Windows supports it badly.
      Maybe you used slow RAM, the AMDs perform better when you just ignore the official RAM speed and run faster RAM (the frequency of the RAM controller and the interconnects between packs of four core and between dies depend on it). Not sure if you can find fast ECC RAM though like DDR4 3200 or more. The effect is very big, there's major performance left on the table that can be seen between e.g. DDR4 2400 and DDR4 2933.

      Funnily though, the Xeons W you quote (being variants of Core i8 7900X, 7920X etc. series) are lemons on single thread performance at least for something like games, because their cache latencies are slow. Maybe your workload likes a large L3. Or it fits well anyhow. Intel is also strong on things particularly SIMD heavy.
      You could probably finds something where the same AMD that is 15% slower than your Intel would be 10% faster than the Intel.

      Why is AMD so often trumpeted here but rarely seen in the real world? And why does AMD always perform great in benchmarks but badly in real world tests compared to Intel?

      They lost their entire market share on servers and dual CPU workstation - consider that just a few years ago a dual socket Intel would beat quad socket AMD.
      Now there getting beaten by 15% in a benchmark may be considered good enough.
      (sockets grew bigger so 2950W/2990X or Xeon W are fit to replace older dual socket workstations like the old Mac Pros)
      It's quite new, begins from zero and high end customers or OEMs didn't jump on version 1.0 hardware as is natural.
      Another issue is for virtual machine farms : the hypervisors had to be updated and even if everything is updated, tested and works perfectly it will remain impossible to live migrate VMs between AMD and Intel. There were hardware bugs too but I already kind of say that refering to "1.0 hardware" (and 1.0.0.1 firmware etc.), every CPU has dozens of hardware bugs even the Intel albeit most may be obscure or easy to paper over. I tried to read Intel erratas once and understood almost nothing about what it says. OS and compiler writers may like such documents better.

    15. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, your previous post implied that you needed additional server capacity. If you don't need anything, then don't buy anything.

    16. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have asked this crowd several times what you are asking now, but after their claims I would try to research afterwards if it is true. In the end, I would get called an anonymous Intel shill for not seeing how AMD is vastly superior, yet the rest of the world did not get the memo.

      Anyway, my conclusion is as follows - AMD is slower, more power consuming and proportionally cheaper compared to Intel, however, at the moment they have an edge on workloads highly benefiting from multi-threading.

    17. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AMD has never been in the lead for the CPU at any point, and whenever they've come close Intel does something to put them a mile behind.

      The closest AMD has gotten to eating Intel's lunch is with the switch to x86-64 instructions. This is essentially because Intel tried to push the Itanium, and it didn't take off, and instead backfired. Intel went back to the drawing board and threw the Pentium 4 under the bus and came back with the Core Duo tech which was basically the Pentium 2/Pentium 3 tech scaled horizontally with more cores rather than higher frequencies.

      When it comes down to it, AMD does offer a better value proposition, but you're not going to buy AMD parts for high-end systems. Meanwhile Intel's low-end parts are something of a joke, they shouldn't exist, where as AMD's low-end parts run circles around Intel's. But AMD's parts aren't particularly good in laptops due to the power requirements.

    18. Re:If only... by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Don't you know that maroon refers to a certain group of Negroes, and consequently your post is racist?

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    19. Re:If only... by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > What am I missing as someone who doesnt know hardware but understands software? Why is AMD so often trumpeted here but rarely seen in the real world? And why does AMD always perform great in benchmarks but badly in real world tests compared to Intel?

      These are all fantastic questions! I would love to know the answers as well.

      If I was to wager a guess it would be: memory bandwidth

      If you take a look at the games where Intel beats AMD you'll almost see it comes down to memory bandwidth.

      Any chance you could try the following?

      * Have you run Sandra's memory benchmark?
      * Have you tried _underclocking_ the intel chips?
      * Have turned OFF hyper-threading?
      * Have tried benchmarking on Linux?
      * Have you disabled ALL audio?

      Let us know what you find out!

    20. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No we run on SuSe Enterprise mainly, the only Windows boxes we have are in accounts and they are just your run of the mill i7-8700. Im familiar with NUMA and upon the vendors instructions we bound our workload to a single CCX after our fist test runs produced much lower results than we were hoping for. Binding to a single CCX did increase performance but only by 1.2-1.6%, nothing that would be noticed without a stopwatch. We even had an engineer come and spend a day with us (we want to buy 109 €15-20K workstations, its worth their while to please us) to try and optimize the AMD systems, he didnt make any improvements

      We used much faster RAM in the AMD boxes (DDR4-2400 ECC vs DDR4-3200 NON ECC)

      I only game on a console but if the Xeon Ws are lemons on single thread then what is faster? They are the fastest single thread server / workstation chip I have used, only the i7-8700K I tested last year was faster in single thread but it falls off a brick wall performance wise at 4 threads. Also our cache hits are pretty minimal with a 12% hit rate, our core data structure that maps the real data is about 835MB, way to big and varied for cache to have much use

      I probably could, like I said the transcoding was a few percent faster on the 2990WX but my hardware guy says that will reverse if we upgrade the RAM in our boxes to a speed that wasn't available when we bough them

      Thanks for the sensible post

    21. Re:If only... by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      Minor corrections:

      "Games" should "gaming benchmarks"

      Underclocking the Intel CPUs is done so you can guage scalability.

      You should also try underclocking your RAM (again to understand scalability)

      Likewise also benchmark overclocked RAM.

      With the combined underclocked, normal, and overclocked combinations of CPU vs RAM you can map a 2D chart and you'll be in a better position to guage WHY Intel is faster then AMD.

      In my 30+ years of programming & building PCs these rules of thumb haven't changed:

      * AMD provides a better bang-per-buck
      * Intel is fastest but you will pay through the nose of decreasing returns.

    22. Re:If only... by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I would summarize the causes as:

      1. Memory bandwidth
      2. Single-threaded performance

      Turning off hyper-threading on the Intel chips and rebenchmarking should help show how much of a factor single threaded performance is having.

    23. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's 2018, man...everything is racist.

    24. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like your software is thread-hopping if you see performance degradation versus Skylake Xeons. Unless you're using AVX2 or AVX512, then I could see the Skylake being faster.

      Anything over 128-bit SIMD is not going to do as well on AMD processors.

    25. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If your code is portable, you should give a try on a non x86 architecture, for example the Talos-II workstations can be bought with dual 18-cores Power9 CPU, which are not that expensive ($1425 each). That's 36 cores, and 144 threads, with gobs of memory bandwidth and 90MB L3 per chip. The motherboard is not cheap, but the rest is reasonably priced.
      And with 64 bit PPC running in little-endian mode, portability issues are very rare.
      Oh, and Power9 has native 128 bit floating point hardware, which comes handy in some cases.

    26. Re:If only... by thegarbz · · Score: 0

      That only matters to gamers though

      It matters to a lot of people, but gamers are definitely not in that group. And game benchmarks will happily show that AMD and Intel are neck in neck for the similar spec'd CPUs. The only real difference is the AMD CPU will run you $50 cheaper.

    27. Re: If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your conclusions mean jack and shit. Move along.

    28. Re: If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You keep talking about your hardware guy. He sounds like a fucking idiot if you are on here asking slashdot for help. And when they disagree you bring out this hardware guy who's done these and proven otherwise.

      Fuck off you shill.

    29. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      * Have you run Sandra's memory benchmark?
      There isnt a linux version of SiSofts stuff but we did test RAM bandwidth using a 100GB tmpfs. The AMD was slightly faster but that should be expected with 2400E CC vs 3200 Non ECC. It wasnt however as fast as we thought it should be but according to the vendor thats just because AMD has has lower RAM bandwidth than Intel at the same RAM speeds

      * Have you tried _underclocking_ the intel chips?
      Nope, its not possible on QTAP EFI on our boards

      * Have turned OFF hyper-threading?
      Yes, it makes the Intel to AMD gap even bigger. The Intel cpu's gain 12-20% in performance. When disabling SMT on AMD performance stays about the same or increases 3%

      * Have tried benchmarking on Linux?
      We dont have any Windows workstations, only SuSe or Ubuntu Linux or OSX

      * Have you disabled ALL audio?
      Yes, we tried disabling all hardware thats unused individually oin the AMD boxes in an effort to find problems

    30. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least, in part, because they don't take speculative execution shortcuts.

    31. Re:If only... by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      You responded to his question about modern processors with shit that is almost 20 years old. That is really not useful.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    32. Re:If only... by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      The problem with fanboyism is that arguments are made that can't stand up to actual objective testing data and metrics.

      It's very possible that the AMD CPU design isn't well suited and optimized for the workflow you are throwing at it, where the Intel CPU does better. And you know what? That's perfectly fine. Use the tool that works best for you and your organization.

      At least you did the due diligence of actually testing and gathering data - many orgs never bother and just stick with "nobody ever got fired for buying X" where X has been many large company names over the years.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    33. Re:If only... by rsimpson · · Score: 1

      I'm fairly confident that gold linker and lld are multithreaded.

    34. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with fanboyism is that arguments are made that can't stand up to actual objective testing data

      Yes, but some of the abuse going back and forth is really creative. I'll read it with a glass of wine, it's relaxing after dealing with adults all day.

    35. Re: If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're comparing Ryzens to Xeons. Epyc is to Xeon as Ryzen is to i series. But then you're complaining about single thread performance. Try the Ryzen 2700X. It's about 10% behind i7 8700K in single thread performance. But it's got 33% more cores. If all you care about is single threaded performance then save yourself some money and get the i3 8350K. But nothing in your post rings true. AMD cream Intel in the workstation space at the moment.

    36. Re: If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And before the Ryzen line of CPUs, that price gap was much higher. AMDs success has forced Intel to lower their prices because Ryzen has them worried.

      Free market, invisible hand, and all that mumbo jumbo.

    37. Re: If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're comparing a workstation chip to a server chip.

      I honestly don't know if AMD has any server chips in thr field yet.

      Would love to see actual benchmarks to backup your claim, though.

    38. Re: If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still running my 4-physical, 8-logical core bulldozer.

      Does what I need it to do. Will upgrade when it dies, or DDR4 RAM drops in price.

    39. Re:If only... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Don't you know that maroon refers to a certain group of Negroes, and consequently your post is racist?

      Nope, never heard that before. I was quoting Who Framed Roger Rabbit? But I'll keep that in mind in the future.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    40. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that is a stupid example. It can take literally 24 hours to compile a large C++ project (e.g., QT) but linking takes only a few seconds.

      https://lld.llvm.org/

    41. Re:If only... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Take building code - you can compile lots of files in parallel, but then you have to link the executable on a single thread. Even though the majority of the work is done across multiple cores, the single core performance can still make a noticeable difference.

      Except your example is terrible, because linking is trivial compared to compilation, and happens rapidly enough. Any software project large enough to have a long linking phase tends to have libraries in its makeup (not just external ones, but internal ones) and the various libraries can be linked in parallel.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    42. Re:If only... by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      I've been working on some kernel networking stack performance improvements for work, so the first thing that popped into my head was Linux kernel compilation.
      Linking does feel like its an appreciable amount of time compared to the compilation phase.
      For most things, that obviously isn't the case.

    43. Re: If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you buy a 32 core, 64 thread 2990 workstation to run a single threaded GIS process? What GIS product doesnt support multithread? Hell, you could run 30 VMs on it if single thread if all you can figure out on your alleged custom product.

      The 2990 @ $1700 beats the $9999 intel chi in cinebench and others, but the 1700 goes for a mere $220 at this point.

    44. Re:If only... by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Mozilla moved away from static libraries, replacing them with fake libraries, basically just a list of object files that usually would have made up the static library as well as disassembling outside static libraries into object files and they also concated 8-16 source files together before compiling. All to speed up linking xul, which was taking hours on OSX and a long time on other platforms.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    45. Re:If only... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It's 2018, man...everything is racist.

      I thought namespace starvation was only a problem for domains and movie stars, but I see now that it is also for non-racist insults.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    46. Re:If only... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It is exactly what I meant, stop trying to twist it to justify your clearly trolling or stupid answer

      Try saying what you mean. It helps. It really helps. When someone says "always" they imply the entire historical record. That's how it works. Words have meanings, and pretending they don't doesn't serve any useful purpose.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    47. Re:If only... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It matters to a lot of people, but gamers are definitely not in that group. And game benchmarks will happily show that AMD and Intel are neck in neck for the similar spec'd CPUs. The only real difference is the AMD CPU will run you $50 cheaper.

      Lots of games, notably ones which don't have a console port, aren't aggressively multithreaded. IME Intel-based systems deliver higher minimum frame rates. Early Athlon days aside, they tend to be able to do more fp math.

      With that said, I have only AMD and ARM processors because I think the value of AMD CPUs is much better than Intel.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    48. Re:If only... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Lots of games

      I think you meant to say "few". Gaming benchmarks across a very wide range of games pit (for example) the Ryzen 2700X against an i7 7700K (at a $30 premium) and an i7 8700K (at a $150 premium). On some games the i5 8600k comes into the mix too which you can get for a $20 discount if you feel like getting 25% less cores and significantly less mutlithreadding performance for your dollar (i.e. you only play the small subset of games that are only single threadded).

      The only way you get a cost benefit from Intel is if you exclusively buy a chip targeted to a specific game and in those cases you can save a few dollars with a crappy 6 core chip. Otherwise "gaming" in general you'd be mad not to buy AMD right now (for the CPU anyway).

    49. Re:If only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've just had the idea to come back and check this thread. So lol, you get accused of being a shill.
      "Lemon" was a bit much, it just goes somewhat backwards compared to a generation or two before it? But it's really for vid games and some other desktop use where the 8700K just beats a current $1000 Intel CPU easily.

      It could be your workload needs tons of memory bandwidth? This is just an intuition when reading your account.
      A guy suggests trying POWER9 which is seems a very good platform on memory performance. This could be the only way to beat your Intel, but I can't predict the result obviously (faster or slower?)

      AMD Epyc gives you eight memory channels on a single socket. e.g. 7401P gives you an affordable 24-core, 8 channels, single socket only, but only "up to" 3GHz. Maybe it won't be fast enough? But would it make a good showing.
      Intel will launch and ship a new single-socket "super high end" system with six memory channels, up to 28 cores. Something of a five-blade razor. It will be "Skylake-A" vs existing "Skylake-X" seen on i9 7900X and Xeon W. It's very obviously based on Xeon Gold/Platinum but just one socket and will be available for consumers, as a reaction to AMD's "cores war".
      Might be a monstrosity that needs liquid cooling but if there's one at 20 or 22 cores and high GHz that might do - even if you don't need all these cores, but need the memory GB/s.

  5. Has a Solution by Zorro · · Score: 2

    AMD

    1. Re:Has a Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sure, now that all the good CPUs are gone, it is time for the second choice.

    2. Re:Has a Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> good CPU

      >> vulnerable to Meltdown

      Pick one.

    3. Re:Has a Solution by mangastudent · · Score: 1

      >> good CPU

      >> vulnerable to Meltdown

      Pick one.

      Guess you don't think IBM's CPUs are good, since both their z Systems (mainframes) and POWER architectures are also vulnerable to Meltdown (well, they're very expensive...). As well as ARM's latest out-of-order design.

      Of all the surviving high performance CPU design families, only AMD escaped this mistake. But not a lot of Spectre ones.

  6. Shrinking failures by amorsen · · Score: 2

    Are there any hard numbers showing that this is caused by increased demand rather than constrained supply?

    I expect that some of the previous-generation factories are in the process of being retooled for 10nm? Is that not how Intel does it? If it is, that would limit the supply of the 14nm chips without yet being able to make up the shortfall with 10nm chips.

    --
    Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    1. Re:Shrinking failures by Archtech · · Score: 1

      Are there any hard numbers showing that this is caused by increased demand rather than constrained supply?

      I feel sure that Intel puts just as much effort into providing large supplies of entry-level processors with low margins as it does into top-end processors with very high margins.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    2. Re:Shrinking failures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or they can just say there is a shortage...

    3. Re:Shrinking failures by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Are there any hard numbers showing that this is caused by increased demand rather than constrained supply?

      Did you miss the news that in Q2 PCs experienced the largest demand in over 6 years after several years of decline?

      Most of this is being driven by corporate Windows 10 adoption as the deadline for Windows 7 is getting closer. Companies don't upgraded OSes, they hand out new PCs.

    4. Re:Shrinking failures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      over 6 years after several years of decline?

      Actual economic growth. As opposed to the fake "new normal" growth we were propagandized with for most of a decade.

    5. Re:Shrinking failures by lactose99 · · Score: 1

      Last I heard Intel was having some serious problems with yields surrounding 10nm

      --
      Fully licensed blockchain psychiatrist
    6. Re:Shrinking failures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are there any hard numbers showing that this is caused by increased demand rather than constrained supply? [...]

      Greed.

    7. Re:Shrinking failures by rsmith-mac · · Score: 1

      I expect that some of the previous-generation factories are in the process of being retooled for 10nm?

      Intel's fab upgrade strategy is n-2. That is, for a new process node (n), they upgrade fabs 2 generations old. n-1 fabs (the current mode) are left alone as Intel needs that capacity in the present time.

      So Intel is currently in the process of converting some 22nm capacity to 10nm. 14nm tabs are not being converted (Oregon dev space aside).

    8. Re:Shrinking failures by miketuppen · · Score: 1

      "Companies don't upgraded OSes, they hand out new PCs"

      This might be what some small companies do but most large companies (who have much bigger PC fleets) will have their own SOE so they're not going to stick with the OS the hardware vendor puts on it anyway.

    9. Re:Shrinking failures by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      will have their own SOE so they're not going to stick with the OS the hardware vendor puts on it anyway.

      I said nothing about vendor OSes. I said they distribute new computers when they roll out new OSes, of course they use their own image and flavour. Currently with the rollout to Windows 10 it makes sense to distribute / upgrade computers in the process.

      *I work for a very large company currently doing such a rollout. Our slightly larger competitor is in the top 10 of fortune 500, they are doing it too, as is our next competitor further down the list. Maybe other industries are different. I only have the one to go on.

  7. Certainly true of secure, reliable processors by Archtech · · Score: 2

    "... supply is undoubtedly tight, particularly at the entry-level of the PC market".

    Has anyone heard news of forthcoming Intel processors that have secure architectures and actually adhere to those architectures?

    --
    I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    1. Re:Certainly true of secure, reliable processors by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Has anyone heard news of forthcoming Intel processors that have secure architectures and actually adhere to those architectures?

      Does anyone except for VM / Cloud service companies care?

    2. Re:Certainly true of secure, reliable processors by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Has anyone heard news of forthcoming Intel processors that have secure architectures and actually adhere to those architectures?

      Yes, and we've discussed them in prior discussions here on Slashdot, but I'm too lazy to go back and look that up for you. Try googling. IIRC it won't be before 2H next year, or possibly the next year.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Certainly true of secure, reliable processors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a good thing no one hosts services on VM's or on the Cloud or else more than just those companies would care.

    4. Re:Certainly true of secure, reliable processors by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Does anyone except for VM / Cloud service companies care?

      Only people who care about security. If you're not among them, please post your public-facing IP here so someone can have a good time with your network.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Certainly true of secure, reliable processors by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Only people who care about security.

      If people care about security they would actually read and assess the impacts of security vulnerabilities. Other people just care about news headlines and feel good measures.

      I care about security deeply so I research big stories when they hit. It is precisely that reason why I don't give a shit about Spectre or Meltdown. I'd give you my public facing IP address, but you could figure that out quite easily if you put even a token amount of effort in (hint: domain name similar to username tied to fixed IP pointed at the modem connected to this very network).

      However to what end do you want my IP? Does Spectre give you some magical port forwarding abilities past a firewall? Does Meltdown magically give you an additional attack vector from outside my network? If not one would reason that you need access to my machine through some other means, and once you have that why the fuck would I worry about either Spectre and Meltdown?

      Unless you think there's some mythical other attack vector that relies on some drive by malware attack, in which case post a link to your malware, I'll happily click on it to prove my point.

  8. Fake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They just want to let AMD gain some traction, otherwise the possibility is great that Intel might get slapped with another monopoly suit.
    The other option would be to let AMD crumble to dust, and all of it's ip go off to one of the mobile crapola unit makers.

    FYI

    passphrase:=muzzle

    1. Re:Fake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm afraid that used to be true, but it's not any more. The current flagship AMD offerings are pretty good, forcing Intel to dig deep and start throwing more cores on their dies, up the core voltages and deal with more heat to try and stay ahead.

    2. Re:Fake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's funny you say that it used to be true, since it was also said over twenty years ago, when according to you it used to be true, but it's not any more.
      So nothing has changed, and it is still true.

  9. AMD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    had lots of CPUs when I built my Ryzen2 box.

  10. A good time to extend Windows 7 support. by xack · · Score: 1

    So that people can stick to their old hardware for longer and give Intel more time to make new chips and get the bugs out of the smaller nodes. It's also time to give out some more x86 licenses so we don't just have AMD as a competitor. Cyrix/VIA need to come back.

    1. Re:A good time to extend Windows 7 support. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Or just buy a fancy new AMD.

    2. Re:A good time to extend Windows 7 support. by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Cyrix/VIA need to come back.

      Why? Neither one was competent to make a high-performance processor, and the low end has moved on to ARM for the power savings.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:A good time to extend Windows 7 support. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess you missed the whole bit about Ryzen and 9th gen A9/A10/A12 processor chipsets not being supported on Windows 7 ... because MS wants you on Windows 10. They say that the chipsets are 'too new' to be supported in Windows 7. TBF that applies to the 7th gen and later Intel processor chipsets as well.

    4. Re:A good time to extend Windows 7 support. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cyrix/VIA need to come back.

      Why? Neither one was competent to make a high-performance processor, and the low end has moved on to ARM for the power savings.

      They can't come back. VIA thought that it purchased a license to use the x86 instruction set from Cyrix when it went under. Intel had cross-licensed that chipset for something that they had wanted from Cyrix. The cross-licensing agreement became null and void once their company was purchased by VIA though. Too bad for VIA that their lawyers weren't smart enough to look for that before they purchased them. Didn't VIA buy S3, also? I'm willing to bet Nvidia and ATI had cross licensed some stuff with S3 that - again, once VIA purchased them, they got hosed. You'd think they'd learn from this stuff. VIA also made some of the most craptacular chipsets for AMD and Intel that ever graced a motherboard.

      The only chipset maker worse than them was SiS. SiS chipsets involved literal voodoo to get the computer to boot. They should have considered that there are places where chickens are uncommon before releasing that festering pile. SiS also made a video card. I heard it audibly squealed when running 3Dmark on it, and it had to switch to 640x480 before every frequency change. I heard it eventually blew up the CRT monitor it was attached to.

    5. Re:A good time to extend Windows 7 support. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just used a Windows 7 computer today and it was infuriating how Windows Update was stuck (it's way too usual). Worse, Google Chrome updater was stuck (even running the download stub). The frigging free antivirus gave me less trouble (I'm sure it fucking lied! says "You're protected" and green fonts before updating it, and after updating it becomes red and "You're not protected" because the license expiry game got more important that the updatedness. I still got it green).

      Because the Windows 7 Windows Update database is broken (though you CAN unlock it after many attempts of running some .bat file and waiting for 10 hours) it will be typical that a Windows 7 system is years out of date even if still fully supported and activated and genuine.
      If you can I think you should run Windows 8.1 instead with Classic Shell - similar level of bloat, graphics stack newer and you don't get bothered by Metro applications or the Charmed bar much. If it opens video/audio in some annoying Windows Media Player, fails at supporting pdf or non-zip archives etc. that's still like plain old Windows and you should know to run your software of choice rather than swear at it past the first few days.

    6. Re:A good time to extend Windows 7 support. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you know that SiS purchased some x86 CPU technology (from the Rise MP6), sold SoCs - the SiS 530, and that now it still goes on as Vortex86DX and such?
      Likewise VIA x86 still is around and has just seen new releases in fact, now it's called Zhaoxin. Their x86 tech was from Centaur (IDT Winchip) and not Cyrix, I think they bought both. The "Cyrix III" CPU was not a Cyrix but a new Winchip and became the C3.
      The Zhaoxin CPUs started as new releases of the VIA Nano X2, which also was a thing (Nano X4 also was a thing, it was a dual Nano X2 much like the Intel Q6600 was built). They are to bring a modern 8 core CPU to market : modern process and properly modern everything (memory controller and chipset features on die) unlike the older VIA C3, C7 and Nano that had stuff hang from an old Pentium 3 or Pentium 4 bus. (Intel was still using that Pentium 4 bus on the Q6600 and Q9650 and associated Xeons)

    7. Re:A good time to extend Windows 7 support. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's some spiritual equivalent of a registry hack, if not a registry hack itself to still get updates. It's of course a software lock out. I guess you'll be on your own for updating firmware and certain drivers, like we did in older days.

    8. Re: A good time to extend Windows 7 support. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have none of these problems. I updated it to current a year ago and haven't touched it since. No issues at all. I use it to game, that's it. I even deleted IE from the install.

  11. Other meaning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It could be that they had prior investments that didn't yield expected results and thus can't pay to produce more processors.
    Or that they had lowered their production so that they could tell "too many people are buying those" and thus try to attract investors to buy Intel shares.

  12. intel needs lots of cpus to buy them off by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    intel needs lots of cpus to buy them off

  13. Tariffs? Brexit? by monkeyxpress · · Score: 1

    I wonder how much of this supply crunch is suppliers building inventory into their supply chains to give a little room to maneuver in case tariffs or other trade barriers get put in place? I know being in the UK, I am building up more inventory than normal to hopefully give everything time to calm down if there is a cliff-edge brexit in six months time. Multiply this sort of behavior by all the businesses with international supply chains and you have shortages and an economic boom.

    It will be quite interesting to see whether this boom morphs into something more sustainable (perhaps it is the confidence kick we have all needed?) or everything goes ugly in a few months time. I really cannot remember a period of time where the two possible economic outcomes were so dramatically different. Normally it is a little more growth or a little less, not 'end of lost decade' or 'global financial crisis round two'.

    1. Re: Tariffs? Brexit? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      For Intel they don't make their CPUs in China from what I know. They make their NAND chips in China which would affect SSD prices. As far as I know China is big producer of silicon for solar panels by not high purity silicon used for chips.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  14. Translation by Luthair · · Score: 2

    We make a fuckton more money on $10,000 Xeons than the $50 Pentium CPU.

  15. Caught With Pants Down by StormReaver · · Score: 2

    It seems like Intel bought into the whole "Post PC" nonsense. It would be interesting to find out if AMD was similarly hoodwinked, or whether it has a ready supply of both low end and high end processors to fill the vacuum left by Intel's mismanagement.

    This is an opportunity for AMD to get much closer to Intel's magical 20% of the server market.

    As many of us have said for the last several years, desktop PC's aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Mobile devices will augment, not replace, the desktop PC market. It is one of the many things that Star Trek accurately predicted back in the 1960's.

    1. Re:Caught With Pants Down by The+Original+CDR · · Score: 1, Interesting

      AMD is coming out with the Athlon 200GE (Ryzen-based) processor for $55 to round out the low-end. Intel still haven't come out with a processor to compete with AMD's 32-core/64-thread Threadripper 2 processor.

      I'm planning to switch from AMD to Intel for my next PC upgrade because the feature I want in a motherboard (dual ultra m.2 slots) are only available in an Intel motherboard. If an identical motherboard appears for AMD, I would go with Ryzen instead.

    2. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems like Intel bought into the whole "Post PC" nonsense.

      Bingo. As soon as full employment and disposable income reappeared in the US demand for new PC hardware reappeared as well. Expensive desktop hardware was forgone while we were subsisting in the "new normal" economy for so many years. The minute real growth appears people start buying luxuries again, so high end PCs are selling.

    3. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      MODDOWN! ; creimer spam post again!

      CREIMER' SUBMISSIONS UPDATE:
      Note also that creimer is trying to regain karma by getting his submissions published as articles on /. so make sure to go to:
      https://slashdot.org/~The+Orig...
      https://slashdot.org/~cre1mer
      https://slashdot.org/~The+Fat+...
      https://slashdot.org/~__aaclcg...
      https://slashdot.org/~IDrinkFa...
      https://slashdot.org/~_sharp'r...
      https://slashdot.org/~crreimer
      https://slashdot.org/~cdreimer
      https://slashdot.org/~criss69
      https://slashdot.org/~Anonymou...
      https://slashdot.org/~FatCashe...
      https://slashdot.org/~ILoveFat...
      https://slashdot.org/~IHateFat...
      https://slashdot.org/~IAteFatC...
      https://slashdot.org/~ITapeFat...
      https://slashdot.org/~IApeFatC...
      https://slashdot.org/~IPrayFat...
      https://slashdot.org/~FatCashe...
      and mod down his submissions as well. The great thing is that you don't even need mod points to mod down a submission, just click on the "minus" icon!

      Yes, believe it or not, creimer owns all the above sock puppet accounts. It is a mystery why Slashdot management tolerates it!

      creimer wrote:

      I don't bother with mod points. I'm doing something much more sinister. It took ten story submissions ? I'll have to double check the number ? to move cdreimer's karma from neutral to excellent without ever being exposed to the capricious mods. Mmmmmwwwwahahahahahahaha!

      https://slashdot.org/comments....

      Danger, Will Robinson, Danger! Creimy is posting more than 2 posts a day. Hurry! mod down otherwise /. will go to hell again!

      Note: you can mod down even if already at -1 to lower karma and to prevent lost /. users to accidentally mod up.

      creimer wrote:

      All you need to do is find a website with a permissive TOS, say, Slashdot, create a Python script to scrape your own comments, sprinkle Amazon affiliate links in various posts, and then re-post past links whenever possible. Won't be long before you start making "coffee money" each month.

      https://slashdot.org/comments....

      C.D. Reimer is a renowned Slashdot collaborator, as he puts it himself; "Because of the quality of my posts and my article submissions, I'm a highly rated commentator and moderator."

      But does anybody ever wondered what "C.D." stands for? Well, it stands for Creimy Dumpty of course!

      Creimy Dumpty sat on the wall,
      Creimy Dumpty had a great fall.
      All the king's horses
      And all the king's men
      Couldn't put Creimy Dumpty
      Together again.

      Creimy's siblings video and theme song, very realistic, especially the pants, just like Creimy's:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      With "Vice President Pence Vowing US Astronauts Will Return To the Moon", we are sure they will need miracle workers up there, here is what it would look like

    4. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      About "The Original CDR"

      _,--=#[The Post CRIMER aka The Original CDR doesn't want you to read!!!]#=--,_ 1)Why-are-people-upset-with-him? 2)What-can-I-do 3)What-are-his-names 4)Who-is-FatCashewsLovesMe 5)How-to-defeat-his-hustles 6)Why-are-there-dashes 7)Pastebin-Copy

      1)Why-are-people-upset-with-himHe makes frequent low quality posts for two reasons:
      Money) BASICALLY: He made thousands of shitty posts & bragged about how much money it made him.
      DETAILS: He wants u to folow his referer links & pick up his cookie. Even if u dont buy what he linked but do buy something else from that site later on he often makes money;He ALSO tries to drive TRAFFIC to his various BLOGS & vlogs.
      Karma)He believes karma acumulates infinitely So he makes lots of pointles posts that r not bad enough to mod down;hoping they wil get moded up;He was a raging ahole when he thoght he had a karma surplus

      2)What-can-I-do DOWNMOD u wil usually get more mod points. If he is postng from a new sock acount w/ krma, get his oldst posts first. DOWNMOD him and AC in fresh thrads early on;Metmods wil reward u. METAMOD his posts. REPLY ONLY ANONYMOUSLY to the most deeply nested coments in his threds it helps hide his posts. Dwnvote his SUBMISSIONS, he uses to get krma. REPORT HIM to slshdot & the afiliate progrms he is usng. DONT MENTION his brand names c**mer.

      3)What-are-his-namesMost famous:The Original CDR, Cre|mer Cdre|mer ILoveFatCashews, Anonymous Cashews, The Fat Bastard aka TCDR

      4)Who-is-FatCashewsLoveMe AKA Tardu Lardo,FCLM Funny & anoying; Not me or crimer;He keeps lookout for infestation

      5)How-can-I-avoid-his-hustles --===DONT FOLLOW HIS LINKS!!!===--
      IF YOU MUST:Use a privte tab & nevr buy anything on the same sesion. If he fools u, close tab, cler the cookies for that site. There r sites other than yutube that wil let u watch his videos. I dont know if people view his contnt but I can pictre his jowls jigling at the thoght of people subvrting his business model
      6)Why-are-there-dashes & weird stuffI know most only skim thse posts. I want the most imprtnt infrmton to pop out at a glnce & to keep it shrt. I dont use TCDRs name becase he may think tht he benfits from geting it indxed by serch engnes. Id like 2 thnk TCDR & FCLM for editrial advice

      7)Copy: http://archive.is/TtDrY

    5. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CROFLOL creimer!

      It has been a lot of fun watching you getting all excited and bragging when there was a burst of hits on your channel and amazon spam links while it was only my click-bot!

    6. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't look any further, Supermicro H11DSi-NT. Not Ryzen but Epyc thoug.

    7. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      creimer is a fat retard! I told him months ago that somebody was obviously running a bot against his channel and spam links.

      But creimer is like the guy so naively in love that he doesn't even notice the guy behind her girlfriend fucking her as she tells him: "I would never cheat on you, Chris"

    8. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How big of a screw-up is this for Intel?

      I mean, CPUs are their sole business, they've been in business since the 1960's, they make profits like water flowing from a tap, and it was only recently they were bragging about their lead in adopting new lithographic processes.

      Seriously, if heads don't roll at Intel, I don't hold out much hope for them. And meanwhile AMD is breathing down their necks!

    9. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > It seems like Intel bought into the whole "Post PC" nonsense.

      It's much more likely they projected how to maximize their profits. Since they basically controlled the CPU market, they could count on customers buying their product eventually. Customers would see yearly marginal improvements, so the upgrade cycle slowed, but they would eventually buy Intel again. If they wanted more cores, a $500 six-core CPU had a nice fat profit margin for Intel.

      I assume Intel would have eventually increased core counts. Maybe sales would be down for a few quarters and they'd something to boost purchases (perhaps on the tenth anniversary of the Core series). I figure they'd shift everything down one step: i5s would be quad hyperthreaded while i7s would be hexacore.

      This whole situation should be a knock against "the free market fixes everything" idea. Intel only improved its offerings when it was forced to, kicking and screaming all the way. And the problem is that Intel is entrenched and their products are still quite good, so it's entirely possible AMD could still fail (since consumers likely will stick with Intel).

    10. Re:Caught With Pants Down by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      I believe what you are looking for is the Asus ROG Crosshair VI Extreme, just FYI. Its a nice board, will take up to 64Gb of your choice of ECC or regular RAM so it can be a gamer rig or a workstation, your call.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    11. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More simply, because their 10nm production line is fucked up - it has low yields and is being replaced with "10nm+" - I think they have a relative shortage. They do sell small number of 10nm CPU : dual core/four thread laptop chips with the GPU disabled. i.e., they fuse off like half the area of a chip that's small to begin with, and probably throw a ton to the garbage still.

      All the laptops CPUs that people want to buy, i.e. all low end laptops (3+GHz i3/i5) and all small and 2-in-1 things like the Microsoft Surface Go, Lenovo Yoga etc. have to be made on 14nm and not on 10nm which would have served this market a year ago already, even if they wanted to keep their quad/six/eight .. 22-core and up CPUs on 14nm. I think the big server cores would have followed on 10nm, and then the mainstream desktop last.
      They lost an entire CPU gen, Cannon Lake, save for the few salvage low end laptop GPUs I mentioned first. That was after they cancelled Cannon Lake on desktop. They still wanted to release Cannon Lake on dual core laptop then on server. Then they drop the servers and now there's nothing but Skylake re-releases on all markets (the one for servers is called Cascade Lake) till Ice Lake which was to be the generation after Cannon Lake.

      too many lakes ; didn't read : they're caught with pants down. It's not so terrible though : rehashing the same old 14nm CPU over and over still got them performance increases (pretty major on 15W laptops). So, our computers suck but a 15W laptop is faster than an older 35W laptop. The rest of suckiness is being stuck at the same 4GB-8GB as six years ago and that's not on Intel specifically.
      RAM shortage will cease as well such that we can get 32GB RAM / 1TB SSD or 64GB / 2TB without breaking the bank.

    12. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This dual M.2 slot feature is most useful on small form factors like ITX or STX. Even better on a laptop that won't fit 2.5" drives anymore.

      On AMD you'd go with a full ATX board or even a micro ATX that has two PCIe 16x slots, one of which works in 4x. Then you have a slot right there for a 4x M.2 SSD, using a small adapter board.
      If upgrading to a used i7 5960X, 6900K etc. you'd have no shortage of big boy PCIe slots to put SSDs in.

    13. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's possible, but it seems more likely that their forced early release of coffee-lake as a reaction to Ryzen created a kink in their supply. I'm guessing if they had extended sales of Kaby Lake and only spun up the Coffee Lake production at its original time we wouldn't be seeing this shortage.

      Of course, if I were correct on this assertion it's also likely that Ryzen would have an even bigger market share than they gained. Having customers waiting to buy your products isn't the worst outcome. It was certainly worse in the P4 days when they were literally paying Dell to take them.

    14. Re:Caught With Pants Down by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Or you could instead get a Quad Ultra M.2 PCIe card (x16 slot) that sports 128GB/s throughput for 62 bucks on Amazon.com

      Asus Hyper M.2 x16 Card Expansion NV Me M.2 Drives and Speed up to 128Gbps Components
      by Asus
      Link: http://a.co/d/8gaNx2g

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    15. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its a nice board, will take up to 64Gb of your choice of ECC or regular RAM

      LOL! creimer with ECC memory??? creimer has a bit that flips by itself every millisecond and that's when he is not exposed to cosmic radiation.

      What would he do with ECC memory? He wouldn't notice the difference!

      Here is an MRI of Chris' brain while in use:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    16. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh also, Chris (aka creimer) doesn't listen to anybody advice so it is useless to suggest anything to him.

      He only believes in what he says when he can remember what he said and he ignores anything else.

    17. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, Chris is a stubborn old goat. He's never wrong, you see. He simply redefines the past when convenient for him.

    18. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you need to use non-sexual metaphors with Chris, he doesn't understand those.

    19. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I'm not the one who is harassing innocent users "

      Hmm, who was it who bragged about copy-pasting worthless comments loaded with Amazon affiliate links, and driving traffic to your equally content-free blogs? Refresh my memory, Chris.

      Like this
      https://yro.slashdot.org/comme...
      https://yro.slashdot.org/comme...
      https://science.slashdot.org/c...
      https://science.slashdot.org/c...
      https://science.slashdot.org/c...
      https://tech.slashdot.org/comm...
      https://tech.slashdot.org/comm...

      " I'm an African-American and registered Republican making less than $10K per year in Silicon Valley."

      Then you certainly wouldn't mind if I posted all the public information available about a certain fat asshole at 1919 Fruitdale?

      Since that can't be you. Right?

      https://neighbor.report/addres...

      You obnoxious grout mold.

    20. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gosh creimer! You should consider yourself lucky and privileged to have somebody running a click-bot on your channel!

      I never heard of anybody running a click-bot on somebody else channel. Everybody runs it against their own channel!

      Anyway, make up your mind creimer, you seem so happy whenever you get views, do you views or not????

      P.S. Quit bragging changing your personal info on that site!

    21. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      users, plural? You're such a tosspot, Chris! Do you see anyone else having a fan club like you do, Chris?

    22. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This traffic patten is not normal for my YouTube channel. Screws up my ability to make data-driven decisions.

      https://twitter.com/cdreimer/status/1046138277235896320

    23. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      users, plural?

      Anonymous Cashews, Joe_dragon, datavirtue, APK, CaptainCork, The Original CDR

    24. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 informative buddy!

      I was going to write the same but I would have added:

      With your multiple sock puppet accounts and multiple personality disorders, I understand that you consider yourself as "users " although.

    25. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you weigh the same as three normal people...

    26. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://twitter.com/cdreimer/s...

      A @Slashdot troll is running a script against six out of my seven videos on my #youtube channel. If you look at the pic, this is not a normal traffic pattern. Not sure why the Busta-Groove! video is being skipped. Maybe the troll likes to groove?

      https://slashdot.org/comments....

      This traffic patten is not normal for my YouTube channel. Screws up my ability to make data-driven decisions.

      https://twitter.com/cdreimer/s... [twitter.com]

      Chris the traffic pattern has never been normal since the very first day you created your channel and bragged about it on Slashdot.

      If you still have access to the "traffic pattern" of your channel since the beginning, check it out and you will see.

      My click-bot has always made you take your "data-driven decisions". Same for your Slashdot amazon link spam.

      To help you make "data-driven decisions", I just added more of your videos the the click-bot target list.

      Hey Chris! Let's play a little game! You try to guess the click-bot target list!

      I will be nice and give you a hint although, Busta-Groove still ain't in the list!

    27. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just wish I knew when the "reinventing" part of your YouTube journey is going to start. So far, all I see is the same narcissistic, self-aggrandizing, delusional idiot savant as before.

    28. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just wish I knew when the "reinventing" part of your YouTube journey is going to start.

      Started ten months ago. We are quickly approaching my first anniversary of posting weekly videos on YouTube.

      So far, all I see is the same narcissistic, self-aggrandizing, delusional idiot savant as before.

      That is what you want to see. What you don't want to see is all the changes that it takes to be in front of the camera on a consistent basis.

    29. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's amazing the amount of effort you put into your digital disasters.

    30. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So I can't see these changes you claim are happening? So why do I need to come along for the journey?

    31. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's a data-driven decision: you weigh almost 400 pounds. Here's more data: you earn far too little for the area you live in.

    32. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey Chris! :)

      Granny PottyMouth click-bots are crap. My click-bots are much more AI advanced, they will leave comments on your channel and add likes so the hack isn't as obvious.

      Just send me the comments as you would like them to appear, examples:

      "Great video C.D., keep on the good work"

      "This is the best video I have seen on YouTube, amazing! Thumbs up"

      etc. etc.

      Contact me instead and forget about Granny PottyMouth!

    33. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey Chris! :)

      Now that you know the truth, why don't you make a revised version of your "Why My Comic Con Panel Videos Are Recorded Audio Only" video where you show us your great "analycs" faculties and explain to us how to interpret your audio-only video views?

      CROFLOL! All those views were my click-bot! You seriously taught that people who want to watch videos on YouTube will listen to audio only streams?

      So, when you put on line your first audio only "video", I immediately set my click-bot to hit it and as planned, your "data driven analycs" made you put more on-line, just to equally get hit by my click-bot. I remember you bragging heavily about it on Slashdot, LOLCROF! .

      Also, streaming audio only is cheap on bandwidth!

    34. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, streaming audio only is cheap on bandwidth!

      Audio with a static image saved in a video file format is the same size as a regular video. If you had "watched" my audio-only videos, you would have know this. Not surprisingly, you're pulling shit out of your ass.

    35. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, streaming audio only is cheap on bandwidth!

      Audio with a static image saved in a video file format is the same size as a regular video. If you had "watched" my audio-only videos, you would have know this. Not surprisingly, you're pulling shit out of your ass.

      Chris, if you are too dumb to use the "repeat last video frame" option in your preferate PhotoShop (LOL!) encoding format, Youtube just re-encodes your video anyway before showing it to users with optimal settings because this way, they save billions of $ on bandwidth!

      Just use tcpdump, oh sorry wireshark for you big dummy and any flavor of IP accounting to convince yourself!

      So, the file size on your workstation doesn't really matter since YouTube just re-encode your video better than you big dummy has encoded it anyway!

      Investigate such stuff before coming on Slashdot about you "analycs" talents!

    36. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Listen you shitmot creimertard, I have a hearing loss in one ear, so my audio will always be suspect. I use a Zoom H2 audio recorder with a pop filter 12" away from my mouth, Audacity to clean up and normalize the audio, and sync the audio to the video and apply a "voice enhancement" eq to the audio in the video editor.

      But it doesn't mean I am a retard!!!!

      Your senseless posts have driven all of us from the Slashdot community mad. Smarten up and get a life please.

      For instance, get your own website instead of bugging others. Dreamhost is pretty good! :)
      https://www.dreamhost.com/r.cg...
      --
      Figure Out G.E.D. Question From Hot Ones Truth or Dab with Kevin Hart

    37. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Investigate such stuff before coming on Slashdot about you "analycs" talents!

      It is: "data driven analyics" talents you creimertard. Again, you put words in my mouth,
      --
      Figure Out G.E.D. Question From Hot Ones Truth or Dab with Kevin Hart

    38. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Audio with a static image saved in a video file format is the same size as a regular video. If you had "watched" my audio-only videos, you would have know this. Not surprisingly, you're pulling shit out of your ass.

      Chris,

      I suspected that you would be too stubborn to face the truth. So when I say I have been watching you for a long time here is a list of your amazon spam links I was hitting with my click-bot back then:
      https://pastebin.com/fRjAinTW

      I am sure it should ring a bell with you but then again, who knows at this point?

    39. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hahahhaaahgahahha!

      The problem is as follows: here is an MRI of Chris' brain while in use:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    40. Re:Caught With Pants Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What happened to the kiddie script? Did your mother disconnect the network cable to the basement?

  16. Shortage? Not in Europe. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CPU of all varieties are readily available here (cheap too!). You really have a waiting line for CPUs in the US?!?! The real problem here is the price of RAM... With the premium on those suckers they must be a rare as hens teeth!

  17. Do we even care, at that point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just bought a Ryzen, and was done with it.

    Intel having "problems"? Boo hoo! Let me shed a very teensy-tiny tear: ,
    If you collect all the crimes Intel did in only the last 20-30 years, you can legally call them organized crime, and get away with that statement in front of a judge. So let's hope the "problems" are intense enough, that they learn their lesson. (That would probably require multiple near-bankruptcies and mass-firings of at least 98% of their staff. .... I don't wish it on the good people who just happened to need the job... So let them create some new companies that then can be the underdogs against ARM and AMD that we cheer for.)

    1. Re:Do we even care, at that point? by Archtech · · Score: 1

      I just bought a Ryzen, and was done with it.

      Likewise.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
  18. Did you test with Meltdown/Spectre Fixes? by lamer01 · · Score: 3, Informative

    From what I've seen, Intel cpus take a huge hit when those fixes are compiled in. From 8%-20% according to Phoronix. AMD cpus take a hit as well although much smaller. If you take into account those hits, AMD CPUs are faster even clock for clock.

  19. You're missing multithreaded programming. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously, maybe you should look a little harder in parallelizing that workload.

    Don't tell me ALL latter calculations are 100% dependent on ALL former calculations.
    Usually, you can factor out most of the work, and leave only a very thin thread of absolute serial dependency.

    One trick is, to not calculate *data* in advance, but *functions*. Look up "stream fusion". Think cutting your serial chain of processing steps in two, and doing stream fusion on the second part, to process all those steps in the second part into a single function that needs to be run on the result of the first part.
    Languages like Haskell make this rather easy nowadays.
    (And try "thread sparks" for all the little bits you can shave off the thick thread to run in parallel.)

  20. Ignorance surely will solve your problems, idiot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously, if you don't even know how to code, but have an over-confidence as high as this,
    and put your ego above the best choice for your work,
    and believe that because 80% of the code is written by programmers who still use C/C++ and have avoided updating their code because C/C++-likes make that so hard and they aren't really that skilled,

    then we got a clear case of the Dunning-Kruger effect here,
    and it is you who’s the problem,
    because you are harming your organization.

  21. Prices Speak for themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looking at the prices the 8600k sells for 270$, up from 250$ a week ago. Ryzen 2600 sells for 165$, down from 170$ a week ago.

    The 8600k doesnt even have hyperthreading and is selling for almost double. Tell me that isnt supply issues.

  22. Re:Ignorance surely will solve your problems, idio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > Seriously, if you don't even know how to code, but have an over-confidence as high as this,
    Lol I already stated that software / coding is my living, its hardware Im asking about... Are you really that stupid or did you answer the wrong poster?

    > and believe that because 80% of the code is written by programmers who still use C/C++ and have avoided updating their code because C/C++-likes make that so hard and they aren't really that skilled,

    What the fuck are you talking about dude? That doesn't make any sense. Again are you really really stupid or are you supposed to be replying to someone else?

    > because you are harming your organization

    You think that me asking why AMD is slower than Intel in workload tests is ruining the reputation of my company? Do you actually have downs syndrome?

    Wow, I know slashdot is mainly stupids now but I though most were trolls not genuine fucking idiots like you

  23. Re:Ignorance surely will solve your problems, idio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Lol I already stated that software / coding is my living, its hardware Im asking about"

    Yet you're too stupid to know about intel deliberately fucking with compilers so that software would run SLOWER on AMD systems.

    Not much of a living, did you start 3 months ago, child?

  24. Give them a break by VonSkippy · · Score: 1

    Give them a break, it takes time to produce CPU's with that many bugs, backdoors and loopholes and yet still mostly function as a CPU.

  25. Re:Ignorance surely will solve your problems, idio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So they're supposed to switch out their entire CI stack to accommodate testing a hardware sample that is supposed to be compatible and competitive? Please expand on your claim of compiler tampering - have they merely enabled features that exist on Intel processors in order to get code that runs better there, and thus comparatively slower on AMD systems as those features don't exist, or legitimately anti-competitive practices that AMD could raise legal action against? And how do you know this, where AMD doesn't?

    What happens if they do switch compilers, eek out a modest performance gain, but a performance loss on their existing fleet of systems? Are they supposed to wholesale switch out every workstation running the software everywhere or face those same performance penalties for years to come on the existing fleet?

    You seem to be too stupid to see the forest for the trees. No organization is going to take on hundreds of thousands of dollars of hardware cost without showing a concrete ROI for doing so. They'll continue using the existing hardware until it's depreciated on the capital investment schedule, and then swap it out. Migrating platforms and changing out stuff to get slightly better performance on less than 25% of the hardware you've got in favor of losing performance on the other 75% is a terrible plan, and makes you an idiot to even get close to suggesting it.

    Only an idiot fucking fanboy would suggest that a development team should suggest a complete hardware swap-out because they decided to optimize for hardware the company doesn't even have.

  26. real solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If Tesla were Intel, they would just blame the shortage on logistics and start making their own trailers to deliver more chips.

  27. No chris you're wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've read thousands of pages on the subject (not in 12 hours), written codecs, and had my hand in creating so many video streaming platforms that I can say confidently that you have at some point used software that I have written and are maybe even running it on your home computer right now.

    Static video images compress well in most video codecs written in oh maybe the past 20 years.
    Don't believe me?

    Temporal redundancy arises when successive frames of video display images of the same scene. It is common for the content of the scene to remain fixed or to change only slightly between successive frames.
    http://archive.is/uEsX0#selection-237.0-239.185

    The bulk of the video stream of a static image will be composed of keyframes (or iframes) which are basically normal JPEG images. Typically they come every second or two but it can be configured. I know youtube re-encodes uploaded content but I seem to recall that maybe I saw someone asking what to set it in youtube so maybe you can even change it there too.

    Anyhow point is that for your audio only videos you can set the iframe interval very high and you'll be just fine. It will mean you can upload your videos very quickly and if youtube lets you fiddle with their encoder settings you can probably set it high there and people watching your videos won't have to download your image hundreds of times just to listen to the audio.

    Your audio only video CAN be as big as a full motion video but you'd have to encode your video badly. Let me guess you record a MJPEG from your camera, use some clicky clicky clicky GUI program to edit and then click some magic button that say convert to mpeg without changing the settings? It's possible to convert an MJPEG directly into an mpeg video with very small modifications but the video will stay the same size as the MJPEG.. like absolutely massive. Are you actually uploading this shit to youtube like that?

    Anyhow even though I know you probably won't bother this is the smallest cleanest book on the subject. It's probably missing h264, hls, and h265 I can't remember but after you read the tiny 300 page book you can skim the wikipedia articles on the latest standards and get up to speed.

    https://www.amazon.com/Video-Codec-Design-Developing-Compression/dp/0471485535

    How is it that you eat and breathe this video hobby of yours, read books by the "experts", have a bunch of expensive video hardware and yet you don't know anything about video?
    You're aware that people who know about video can use scripts and timers to record, edit, encode, and upload (with metadata!) their videos in a fraction of the time it would take with the naive approach of recording the videos and manually editing them in final cut and then uploading them with youtube's web interface?