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How Microsoft Rewrote Its C# Compiler in C# and Made It Open Source (medium.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the coming-along-and-sharing-the-software dept.

Mads Torgersen, the lead designer of C# at Microsoft, remembers "Project Roslyn," which built an open-source, cross-platform compiler for C# and Visual Basic.NET "in the deepest darkness of last decade's corporate Microsoft: We would build a language engine! A unified, public API to C# code: We would redefine the meaning of "compiler". Of course, once you are building an API for the broad C# community, it is kind of a slam-dunk that it should be a .NET API, implemented in C#. So, the old dream of "bootstrapping" C# in C# was fulfilled almost as an accidental side benefit. Roslyn was thus born out of an openness mindset: sharing the inner workings of the C# language for the world to programmatically consume.

This in and of itself was a bit of a bold proposition in what was still a pervasively closed culture at Microsoft: We would share this intellectual property for free? We would empower tool builders that weren't us to better compete with us? The arguments that won the day for us here were about strengthening the ecosystem and becoming the best tooled language on the planet. They were about long-term growth of C# and .NET, versus short term monetization and protection of assets for Microsoft. So even without having mentioned open source, signing up for the cost and risk of the Roslyn project was a big and bold step for Microsoft....

F# released already in 2010 with an open source license and its own foundation -- the F# Software Foundation. The vibrant community that grew up around it soon became the envy of us all. Our team pushed strongly to have an open source production license for Roslyn, and finally a company-wide infrastructure emerged to make it real. By 2012, Microsoft had created Microsoft Open Tech; an organization specifically focused on open source projects. Roslyn moved under Microsoft Open Tech and officially became open source... C# language design and compiler implementation are now completely open processes, with lots of non-Microsoft participation, including whole language features being built by external contributors.
Torgersen's article says C# now enjoys "the scaling of effort via contribution of features and bug fixes, but also the insight and course correction we get through the instant, daily feedback loop that open source provides.

"It's been a long and wild journey, and one that to me is symbolic of the massive changes that Microsoft has undergone over the last decade."

85 comments

  1. Lulz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    "Linux is worse than cancer."

        -- Steve Ballmer

    1. Re:Lulz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I remember that. It was a while ago. I think it was the same year as "the year of Linux on the desktop".

    2. Re:Lulz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      Me too!!!

      I have a hearing loss in one ear, so my audio will always be suspect. I use a Zoom H2 audio recorder with a pop filter 12" away from my mouth, Audacity to clean up and normalize the audio, and sync the audio to the video and apply a "voice enhancement" eq to the audio in the video editor.

      I find AmazonTM the gretest thing since sliced bread and helps taking care of my health at retirement with the Amazon long tail revenue streams!

      All you need to do is find a website with a permissive TOS, say, Slashdot, create a Python script to scrape your own comments, sprinkle Amazon affiliate links in various posts, and then re-post past links whenever possible. You can even make video of yourself going to pick up AmazonTM parcel at the convenience store and post it on your youtube channel for more redundant revenue streams.

      They also have a wide supply, the best of lattes, clif/power bars and microwave popcorn at the best cost, espicially if you make a friend buy them for you with your own affiliate link!

      Also, I still use my iPhone 6s and reduce my monthly bill from $80 to $50. As a phone and a video camera, the iPhone 6s isn't obsolete and I use it to make my videos on youtube. As a Sprint very special customer for 20+ years, Sprint will always give me a new iPhone for free if I decide to stop using the 6s as a phone in the next several years.

      I use PhotoShop daily!

      My PC has an eight-core processor and a Nvidia 1050 Ti 4GB video card. A minute of 1080p video renedered on the processor takes a minute. A minute of 1080p video renedered on the Nvidia card takes 10 seconds. I don't think an iPad has the same performance of my PC for renedering videos longer than a short clip.

      I can't imagine using Photoshop without a keyboard and mouse, or not being able to access my files from my file server. Video renedering on the iPad will probably suck donkey balls.

      Blackmagic also charges high prices for their gear as Apple does. Need an HDMI to USB3 capture device? Blackmagic is $300. Any generic company is $50.

      I take public transit. A local bus take me down the street to pick up the express bus, the express bus drops me off in Palo Alto, and a local bus take me down the street to my job. An hour each way. Driving through Palo Alto during rush hour is insane. Since I work in government I.T., I start work at 7:00AM.

      For a final project in Small Group Communications, my four Vietnamese classmates appointed me to do all the work and be the speaker because I was white. So I did all the work and spoke in front of the class. Our instructor, a black woman, gave me all their credit for the assignment and forced them to retake the class. They screamed "white privilige" all the way to administration and their complaint landed on deaf ears. They couldn't prove that they did anything to merit a grade and cheerleading from the back of the room doesn't count.

      The background file for my national security clearance got stolen by the Chinese a few years ago That contained a lot more information than the credit reports that Uncle Sam requested from all three bureaus.

      Bonus: get some silver coins, view recommendations on my special Youtube channel dedicated to the topic! They constitute a fail-safe insurance strategy for your retirement!

      --
      Forget Night School for G.E.D., Go To Community College for Associate!

    3. Re:Lulz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it was the same year as "the year of Linux on the desktop".

      No, that's this year! ;-)

  2. Good, now make Windows 10 open source by Spy+Handler · · Score: -1, Redundant

    I dare you

  3. First selfhosting copiler EVER! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    How is this even news?

    1. Re:First selfhosting copiler EVER! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is this even news?

      Speaking as an active enemy of Microsoft, one who hadn't used any of their code regularly for almost a decade until they started contributing to Linux, the fact that one of Microsoft's main compilers is now working in the same way that gcc works (self hosting, open contribution, free software, open source) is amazing. In a very deep way, the free software foundation has won. Before they came along there was plenty of "open source" software but it was ignored and simply ripped off by companies like Microsoft who could incorporate open source innovation into their products without even having to give credit. Now Microsoft is openly releasing Open Source Software which is really also Free Software

      It is still very likely that, at the top level of Microsoft, this is being run as the Embrace part of an Embrace, Extend, Exterminate campaign. You should never rely on Microsoft as a sole supplier and it is always better to ensure that they don't have any knowledge of your use of their software by ensuring you buy from an OEM with a confidentiality agreement. Still, this is likely to fail, and in the end the only business model that may be left in MS will be an FOSS based one.

      This is big news.

    2. Re:First selfhosting copiler EVER! by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      It's self-hosting but it's not in any way portable because of it.

      I would be more impressed if they rewrote the C# compiler in plain vanilla C and released it to the world as source.

      Bootstrapping is from bare metal, or as close as possible.

    3. Re:First selfhosting copiler EVER! by PmanAce · · Score: 1

      C# is now portable using netcore.

      --
      Tired of my customary (Score:1)
    4. Re: First selfhosting copiler EVER! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry to burst your bubble, but bare metal won't run a c compiler either.

    5. Re: First selfhosting copiler EVER! by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      You mean like this? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-...

      --
      http://saveie6.com/
    6. Re:First selfhosting copiler EVER! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Letting your paranoia and politicalization of technology shows a person who has thrown away the concept of "using the best tool for the job". A good programmer is one who delivers the best solution not the one who willingly and reflexively ignores anything connected to MS. MS is their historically closed ecosystem with a more open and cross platform ecosystem. The closed ecosystem created one of the most successful corporations in history. The IT world has changed over the years and MS is changing what needs to be changed to remain a successful and profitable corporation. After all MS is not a charity. All the MS haters used the closed source and single platform positions to to anchor their criticisms. Now that MS is basically turning into a more open source and multi-platform stance what will people use to continue their crusade against anything related to MS?

    7. Re: First selfhosting copiler EVER! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ????????

      Google it.

    8. Re:First selfhosting copiler EVER! by flargleblarg · · Score: 1

      I think you mean self-hoisting, bub. Not self-hosting.

    9. Re:First selfhosting copiler EVER! by flargleblarg · · Score: 1

      It's self-hoisting but it's not in any way portable because of it.

      FTFY (you forgot the "i" in "hosting").

    10. Re:First selfhosting copiler EVER! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Speaking as an active enemy of Microsoft

      haha no. while you can make microsoft your enemy if you like they have absolutely no interest in you whatsoever no matter what your sense of self-importance tells you.

    11. Re:First selfhosting copiler EVER! by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      'Portable' would mean all it needs is a C compiler. For example, to compile it on NetBSD.

    12. Re: First selfhosting copiler EVER! by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      Microsoft providing binaries that can be used to compile it on various flavors of Linux is not good portability. Portability would mean it could be compiled on NetBSD, Irix, maybe BeOS. Anything that has a compliant C compiler.

    13. Re: First selfhosting copiler EVER! by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Ok so you mean this? https://github.com/dotnet/core

      --
      http://saveie6.com/
    14. Re:First selfhosting copiler EVER! by kriston · · Score: 1

      I dunno, the GCC project has called it bootstrapping since day one. I used the SPARCworks C compiler to build GCC, then the built GCC to build another GCC, and using that GCC to build the final build.

      Same deal on HP/UX, AIX, OSF/1, Amiga UNIX, etc.

      --

      Kriston

    15. Re: First selfhosting copiler EVER! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Go compiler is now written in go. How is C# different?

      Step 1: port the Go 1.4 compiler (in C) to your new platform.
      Step 2: use the ported Go compiler to compile the latest compiler.

    16. Re:First selfhosting copiler EVER! by ThirdPrize · · Score: 1

      I can develop a .Net Core console app on my macbook, copy the bin folder over onto a PC and run it there. What more do you want?

      --
      I have excellent Karma and I am not afraid to Troll it.
    17. Re:First selfhosting copiler EVER! by PmanAce · · Score: 1

      Portable usually means cross-platform, which it is the case. Incidentally, support for FreeBSD is in its early stages but getting there.

      --
      Tired of my customary (Score:1)
    18. Re: First selfhosting copiler EVER! by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      This would have been a more helpful link.

    19. Re: First selfhosting copiler EVER! by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      This is even more interesting. Running .NET on nearly bare metal using a NetBSD rump kernel.

  4. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nifty

  5. Opportunity wasted by Gravis+Zero · · Score: -1, Troll

    If they wanted to actually contribute to the community then they would have made an LLVM frontend or submitted patches to Clang. Instead, they did what they always do, make a massive heap of code with nothing in common with anything.

    But hey, if you want bugs galore, this is the way to go.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:Opportunity wasted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That's really dumb, whilst I agree there are too many languages out there, and people don't always need to make new ones when existing ones exist, we also don't want a monoculture where tech goes down one singular path.

      The fact is C# and .NET were already well established, before LLVM even came into existence, and have a massive ecosystem around them with millions of devs and companies using it.

      Thus, making it able to work for more people in more places is a good thing, and given it's strong base, like Java, it's a reasonable piece of alternative tech that should stay alternative and not be converged into a great LLVM monolith where progress will never happen because there's no competition anymore. That would be a terrible outcome for everyone, it's what happened when IE "won" the browser wars and we were all stuck with IE6 ruling the browser world for half a decade.

      As for your comment on bugs, I'm not sure what your point is. You're basically arguing against open source altogether at that point because you're saying if a community finds and logs bugs it's a terrible thing? How fucking stupid are you? The whole point in open source is precisely so that many eyes can spot problems and collaborate to fix them. There are plenty of major open source projects that are nothing to do with Microsoft in the exact same position. If you criticise an organisation for properly tracking all it's bugs and doing so publicly and for allowing people to contribute more bug reports and also therefore allowing open source devs to also chip in and fix them, then you're basically arguing companies shouldn't open source because you'll shame them for letting other people work on the project.

      People like you really need to get over your irrational Microsoft hate and take a leaf out of Torvald's book and go and get some professional help. You're exactly the sort of toxic open source community member he was talking about, because even when you've got literally everything you wanted from a formerly proprietary company - i.e. a complete open sourcing of one of their key products, you STILL bitch and moan at them and imply they shouldn't have done it. You're exactly the sort of person the OSS community doesn't need because you're exactly the sort of no-life vermin that pushes organisations and individuals away from contributing to it.

    2. Re:Opportunity wasted by Interfacer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I thought the mindset of open source was that YOU did things how YOU wanted to do them, and provide the source so that people can fork if they disagree?
      That is after all why there are over a thousand text editors for linux.
      That is why you have X.org and X386 if I recall correctly.
      VIM and emacs.
      etc.

      My guess is that no matter what Microsoft does, you will complain about it.

    3. Re:Opportunity wasted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some people just like to whine about other people because it makes them feel better about themselves, like what I'm doing right now.

    4. Re:Opportunity wasted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Listen buddy, you have to take things into perspective!

      I have a hearing loss in one ear, so my audio will always be suspect. I use a Zoom H2 audio recorder with a pop filter 12" away from my mouth, Audacity to clean up and normalize the audio, and sync the audio to the video and apply a "voice enhancement" eq to the audio in the video editor.

      This doesn't mean I am a retard!!!!!!
      --
      Forget Night School for G.E.D., Go To Community College for Associate!

    5. Re:Opportunity wasted by xonen · · Score: -1, Troll

      People like you really need to get over your irrational Microsoft hate and take a leaf out of Torvald's book and go and get some professional help. You're exactly the sort of toxic open source community member he was talking about, because even when you've got literally everything you wanted from a formerly proprietary company - i.e. a complete open sourcing of one of their key products, you STILL bitch and moan at them and imply they shouldn't have done it. You're exactly the sort of person the OSS community doesn't need because you're exactly the sort of no-life vermin that pushes organisations and individuals away from contributing to it.

      With these kind of rants, i'd also suggest you are exactly the person the 'OSS community' (if such exists) does not need.

      It's also very interesting to see the amount of brainwash being done to you, to conclude that 'if you don't like MS you are not a good civilian/OSS member/technician/bla'.

      By the way. the reason people don't trust MS is most likely because they are a decade or 2 older than you, and actually remember what MS has done in the past first-hand, and also observe how most 'changes' from MS are actually double-bottomed party tricks. Open-sourcing some code will not erase such memories. Live with it - cause those 'unbelievers' are likely right and if not, have the right for their viewpoints as much as you - just you don't realize it.

      --
      A glitch a day keeps the bugs away.
    6. Re:Opportunity wasted by Yaztromo · · Score: 5, Funny

      That is why you have X.org and X386

      The project was named XFree86. You were so very, very close :)

      Yaz

    7. Re:Opportunity wasted by gweihir · · Score: 0

      Indeed. MS is always very proud of doing it far worse than all those that have done something similar before...

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    8. Re:Opportunity wasted by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If they wanted to actually contribute to the community then they would have made an LLVM frontend

      They did. LLVM is not currently a great fit for garbage collected languages, though the LLILC team worked with some of the Azure folks to improve it in this regard. LLVM also suffered from longer compile times (important for a JIT). The Roslyn architecture makes it easy to incrementally replace the JIT, because it supports trying to compile individual functions with a new JIT and falling back to the old one if it doesn't support all of the functionality required. The LLILC team made use of this when trying to bootstrap.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    9. Re:Opportunity wasted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People like you...

      Yes!
      The original comment by Gravis Zero wasn't a personal attack against anyone.
      But #57398358 attacked that person, not what they said.

      All good points in your reply.

      CAP === 'bashing'

    10. Re: Opportunity wasted by Billly+Gates · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They have submitted code. Infact clang is an option in visual studio community as an option. .net core is available for Linux and so is visual studio code editor. Redhat is ditching Mono and even including Microsoft's Rosslyn and let's not forget WSL for Windows10 nor Android sdk including Android emulators with Visual studio either or the fact that Bill Gates himself owns a Samsung phone.

      I am not saying to be a MS fanboy. What I am saying is MS is changing due to the world changing around them. It isn't 1999 anymore. Apple is much more powerful and popular than back then. Also IOS, Android, HTML 5 browsers, cloud computing, and a plethora of free languages and apis like python, R, rust, node.js, and others changed the landscape. Gone are VB, COM, vc++, Internet Explorer, and WinCE.

      MS has a new CEO who realized they no longer set the pace of the industry and if they want to remain relevant they and not loose mellinial developers they need to include, not exclude.

      So that is the argument. Remember Apple was cool here and open source too back in 1999 on slashdot. They turned assholish FAST and more aggressive than MS when they got power. All companies are the same once they corner a market

      --
      http://saveie6.com/
    11. Re:Opportunity wasted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > By the way. the reason people don't trust MS is most likely because they are a decade or 2 older than you, and actually remember what MS has done in the past first-hand, and also observe how most 'changes' from MS are actually double-bottomed party tricks.

      And there we have it, speculation, bullshit, and paranoia, with no ability to look objectively at the fact that companies are made of the people who staff them, and that the people that staffed the Microsoft you remember from 20 years ago aren't even in the company anymore.

      The reason you are pissed at my post, isn't because you have some secret knowledge of Microsoft's dastardly plan that others just don't, because of the false assumption that you're older and have been around longer, but is in fact because you're also in the same category as the GP as being someone that just can't move on, can't let go, and can't rationally analyse the facts.

      Microsoft could open source Windows and hire Torvalds as the CTO and you'd still think it's some kind of dastardly plan, that's how utterly retarded folks like you are. You can't forgive, and can't forget, because you're defective.

    12. Re: Opportunity wasted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trust is hard to gain back.

      Yours might not be, but mine is.

    13. Re: Opportunity wasted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And who is it that has to gain your trust back exactly? The artificial inanimate construct that is the trademark "Microsoft"?

      Or the people who work at Microsoft NOW and are responsible for turning it into the biggest open source contributor on the planet and making it an open source power house, that are driving the company's open source strategy ever forward? You want them to somehow gain your trust back, even though they're the ones who are doing exactly as you think they should do?

      Or are you expecting the people who have retired, or even died of old age that used to work at Microsoft 20 years ago that did the things you didn't like to come back from retirement, come back from the dead, and make up for the things you hate them for? If so, are you SURE you want those people back in the company?

      THIS is why you're irrational, this is why you're a crackpot, because you don't even know who or what it is that has to gain your trust back. You just know you hated something once and someone, or something, somewhere, or somehow, has to do some arbitrary thing to make you not hate.

      I've got news for you, you're fucking irrelevant. No one is going to make anything up to you because you're not owed anything, and the people you hate aren't even around anymore - they've fucked off into the sunset with their millions and billions playing around with dastardly evil things like cures for malaria and polio and such. Meanwhile, most the people who are under the inanimate artificial construct whose name you associate with hate have already been working hard to do things right for a decade now, so they just don't care what you think because they've not done anything wrong for your hate to be meaningful.

    14. Re: Opportunity wasted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trust is hard to gain back.

      Yours might not be, but mine is.

      So what sort of computer do you use? I mean with all the backdoors in Intel, AMD and the various modem chips that hard-to-gain-back trust must leave you with slim pickings for computer parts.

    15. Re:Opportunity wasted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By the way. the reason people don't trust MS is most likely because they are a decade or 2 older than you, and actually remember what MS has done in the past first-hand

      Oh you mean like "embrace, extend, extinguish", the thing that never actually happened to anything it was actually attributed to? Java was a shitty technology and Microsoft was right that that horrible abortion should have died but it clung to live and has infected personal computing via Android. Or web standards? That both competitors in the browser wars had worked against but ultimately the victor of that war has come to support? Anytime slashdot-types attribute EEE to something you can be pretty certain the opposite will happen (though there is a bit of a history of that with the iPod and iPhone as well).

      and also observe how most 'changes' from MS are actually double-bottomed party tricks.

      Specifically which ones?

      Open-sourcing some code will not erase such memories.

      I dont think that was the suggestion, the suggestion is you evaluate the recent actions of the people in the company now rather than the things different people did 2 decades ago. Do you know where those people work now? How do you feel about those companies?

    16. Re:Opportunity wasted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The irony here is out of this world. But I'm not surprised, that kind of hypocrisy is so typical of the kinds of people who use terms like toxic in the context of people. No-one is entitled to a different opinion, it's your way or the highway, and you're completely justified when you degrade others, but they're apparently the toxic people...

      Go have a good hard look in the mirror before you go stoning others.

    17. Re:Opportunity wasted by ThirdPrize · · Score: 1

      The irony is its called "open source" when most of the people who believe it are "closed" to most things outside their little community.

      --
      I have excellent Karma and I am not afraid to Troll it.
    18. Re:Opportunity wasted by xonen · · Score: 2

      Do you know where those people work now? How do you feel about those companies?

      Any long term /. reader will know that most big companies are frown upon. How Apple went from nerd's favorite to fanboys. How Google is almost synonym for Big Bro. How IBM went from markt leader to small boy.

      Any big company should be observed with skepticism and reservation, not only the tech sector, but the tech sector simply has a big influence on our daily lives and the future to come. That's why they are under a microscope. It's also why they are not expected to change fast.

      But when it comes to Microsoft it's also why 2 decades of bad behavior is not suddenly forgotten after one decade of being 'OS friendly' or 'no longer OS hostile', especially if you see how they treat their customers with win10 when it comes to privacy.

      But any day Microsoft fanboys take over /. is a sad day, and today is one.

      --
      A glitch a day keeps the bugs away.
  6. Because THIS IS MICROSOFT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Pick a thing everyone has done before. Make like you're the first anyway. With enough publicity, the idiots will believe it, too.

    They're special that way.

    1. Re:Because THIS IS MICROSOFT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, they are not the first - bids start at least 45 years ago.
      IBM MASM, LE, Rexx possibly. I may be wrong as Algol and PL/I and some Fortran's in the age of 360's.
      Fujitsu also had some really cool compilers complete with CSECT and DSECT's - something that ifaik is not available today.
      My gut tells me Seymour Cray of Cray computer would have done this, and a company DEC as well.
      Lastly the syntax and railway lines of a 'Language' is not intellectual property, and most CS courses have 'Write a compiler' assignment in them.

    2. Re:Because THIS IS MICROSOFT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think TFS suggest a claim to be first.

      Anyway, you should probably avoid all Apple publicity material if you're this sensitive.

    3. Re:Because THIS IS MICROSOFT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They claim it was a first for MS, not the whole world.

    4. Re:Because THIS IS MICROSOFT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
      That's a nice trip down memory lane, but if you read the article rather than just the summary then you would see that they never claimed to be the first. In fact, the very second paragraph of the article says:

      The first conversations about what would become Roslyn were already ongoing when I joined Microsoft in 2005 - just before .NET 2.0 would ship. That conversation was about rewriting C# in C#. This is a normal practice for programming languages; a proof point of the maturity of the language.

  7. How? by Hognoxious · · Score: 0

    The question I'm asking is why?

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      Dude, are you blind?????

      I take public transit. A local bus take me down the street to pick up the express bus, the express bus drops me off in Palo Alto, and a local bus take me down the street to my job. An hour each way. Driving through Palo Alto during rush hour is insane. Since I work in government I.T., I start work at 7:00AM.

      Wake up in the morning and you will see!

      Bonus: get some silver coins, view recommendations on my special Youtube channel dedicated to the topic! They constitute a fail-safe insurance strategy for your retirement!

      --
      Forget Night School for G.E.D., Go To Community College for Associate!

    2. Re: How? by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The answer in the article is that they wanted to and looked for a reason until they found one. The more interesting part is that is shows how deep the Windows development process is within Microsoft. I thought they would have learned their lesson with Vista, but nope. That's what stack ranking gets you, I guess.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To add dynamic language features to the CLR in a way that is both cross platform and feels non-janky at development time.

  8. Still a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Still a patent trap

    1. Re:Still a by eneville · · Score: 1

      Is it a patent trap if it is under the Apache licence? I'm not sure where one stands legally if they patent something and then release it under the Apache licence, which AFAICS is very similar to the BSD licence.

      --
      Why UNIX?
  9. How about vb6 next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Release vb6 open source now you know for all those man years wasted and millions of lines of code you decapitated and set on fire

  10. WALK AWAY from CoCs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Free Software developers of the world, open your eyes! Our communities are bring raped, our work pillaged.

    Detestable villains - mean spirited, bigoted, belligerent, vicious - are using underhanded tricks to force hypocritical "Codes of Conduct" on the projects we built.

    The only purpose of these CoCs is to allow so-called "Progressives" to conduct witch hunts against anyone who opposes them. Thereby they plan to steal our work for their shadowy corporate paymasters.

    You can readily tell these CoCs are not about "just being nice" - because they are ALWAYS supported by the very LEAST NICE, most aggressively mean and shamelessly bigoted people you can imagine.

    If a project to which you contribute has been raped by CoC-mongers there is a simple solution: WALK AWAY. Never contribute again. If you have a patch almost ready, count the time you spent on it as a loss and throw it away. If you see a security issue, remain silent and do nothing. IT'S NO LONGER YOUR PROJECT. YOU ARE NOT WELCOME THERE.

    If you are evaluating new software, don't even consider any projects burdened under the tyranny of a CoC. It doesn't matter if they are technically superior - just don't consider them. Never be openly political, always make up a technical reason for rejecting CoCed projects.

    Don't argue in public about the CoC. Doing so only exposes you to needless risk. You might be dis-employed, blackballed, and even set up for a #MeToo purge. Just stay far away.

    Comrades: Individually we are powerless, and easily crushed beneath the iron boot of Corporate Social Just-Us. But together in solidarity we are millions and we are strong. The very Internet itself depends on our collective labor. If we stop working, the internet stops working.

    Free Software developers, save yourselves and save your communities! Just WALK AWAY from any project with a CoC. Without our labor they are nothing.

  11. APK Hosts File Engine for Linux/BSD... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    See subject: APK Hosts File Engine 2.0++ 64-bit for Linux/BSD h t t p : / / a p k . i t - m a t e . c o . u k / A P K H o s t s F i l e E n g i n e F o r L i n u x . z i p

    Yields more security/speed/reliability/anonymity vs. any 1 solution (99% of threats use hostnames vs. IP address most firewalls use) more efficiently/FASTER + NATIVELY 4 less!

    Vs. "Bolt on 'MoAr' illogic-logic" slowing you hosts speed u up 2 ways: Adblocks + Hardcode fav. sites u spend most time @ vs. competition loaded w/ security bugs (DNS/AntiVir) + overheads slowing u (messagepass 'souled-out' to advertisers easily detected & blocked addons + firewall filtering drivers) & their complexity leads to exploitation!

    * ONLY 1 of its kind in GUI 4 Linux/BSD!

    (Better vs. Windows model in speed/efficiency/merge)

    APK

    P.S.=> Protects against Spectre & Meltdown + ads/trackers/botnets/malware downloads/malcript/email malicious payloads... apk

    1. Re: APK Hosts File Engine for Linux/BSD... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      It contains spyware, so do not trust this.

  12. APK Hosts File Engine for MacOS... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    It's here! APK Hosts File Engine 1.0++ 64-bit for MacOS h t t p : / / a p k . i t - m a t e . c o . u k / A P K H o s t s F i l e E n g i n e F o r M a c O S . z i p

    Yields more security/speed/reliability/anonymity vs. any 1 solution (99% of threats use hostnames vs. IP address most firewalls use) more efficiently/FASTER + NATIVELY 4 less!

    Vs. "Bolt on 'MoAr' illogic-logic" slowing you hosts speed u up 2 ways: Adblocks + Hardcode fav. sites u spend most time @ vs. competition loaded w/ security bugs (DNS/AntiVir) + overheads slowing u (messagepass 'souled-out' to advertisers easily detected & blocked addons + firewall filtering drivers) & their complexity leads to exploitation!

    * ONLY 1 of its kind in GUI 4 MacOS!

    (Better vs. Windows model in speed/efficiency/merge)

    APK

    P.S.=> Protects against Spectre & Meltdown + redirect poisoned or downed DNS/botnets/malware downloads/malcript/email malicious payloads... apk

  13. Commenting to undo moderation by mccalli · · Score: 1

    Please ignore. Post started insightful and became flame bait - seems I jumped the gun in rewarding it.

  14. -SIGH- by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Redundant

    I think I'm getting Microsoft fatigue... Let's just get this over with:

    It (whatever this article or story was about,) came from, is supported by, or is or was done at the suggestion of Microsoft. (Microsoft is evil and makes shit to entrap and enslave users, and hoover money out of their pockets and bank accounts while preventing any competitor from being able to compete fairly through leveraging its other products and its immense financial warchest, etc., etc., et... (yawn)... cetera.) I therefore oppose and mistrust whatever the fuck it is no matter what, often without reading or knowing about what it is because...

    It's as simple as this: after what they have done, I will never trust Microsoft, nor give them any more of my money, even indirectly, as long as I can possibly help it. I will bash them and their garbage products until the end of time because to FAIL to do so is to reward their miscreancy, and encourage others to misbehave as they have because of insufficient penalties. The courts failed to destroy them or break them up until little bits (no pun intended) like they should have, and so I have to do what I can, as a computer user and private citizen, which is not much, but to be silent in the face of a known evil is to be complicit. Knowing the sort of company they are, I know that this approach will mean that the vast majority of the time I'll be right without knowing the specifics because that's just the sort of company they are, and the garbage just the sort of shit they produce. I am confident they'll never change, and as long as they are doing business as Microsoft, I will continue to maintain this position. Fuck them, for ever and ever and ever amen.

    I can pretty much just cut and paste this text, (unless Slashdot detects the post is identical to a previous one and doesn't allow it, in which case I'll have to pepper it with random numbers or something,) because this is very nearly what I write for almost any story about Microsoft, admittedly. Most of the time I actually read and think about whatever it is, but honestly, why bother? It's Microsoft. Fuck 'em.

    Even if they somehow magically reformed, the very fact that they're choosing to do business as Microsoft is reason enough to keep them on the permanent shit list, since that choice unavoidably means that they're enjoying the benefits of the name/brand recognition of Microsoft, (which for me is a giant negative, but for others is a stamp of... well, inevitability, I suppose).

    So when Microsoft or anyone who works or worked there, does something "open" or "open source," remember that nothing has changed regarding how private companies in the US work, how capitalism works, how finance and economics work, or how fucking MATH works, and to imagine it has, and Microsoft is giving or allowing anyone they can conceivably prevent from giving away for free, something away for free, that in the end, Microsoft is doing or allowing it because THEY believe doing it will end up placing more of YOUR dollars into THEIR pockets, and that otherwise, there's NO. WAY. IN. HELL. THEY'D. BE. DOING. IT !!!

    So, Microsoft rewrote it's C-pound compiler in C-pound and made it "open source," huh? Bullshit. Maybe they did and maybe they didn't, but they've got some nefarious long-term goal driving the decision to do or allow whatever they've done, and I want no part of it. Neither should anyone else, if they're smart.

    1. Re:-SIGH- by eneville · · Score: 1

      So, Microsoft rewrote it's C-pound compiler in C-pound and made it

      C-flat, I think.

      But yeah, what's the point when openjdk is there, why bother, meh. Pretty much the same language, pretty much the same paradigm. Why bother? If you want to help the world, work on rust or nim. They look promising.

      --
      Why UNIX?
  15. Parent is a fake creimer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The parent is a fake creimer and is desperate for attention.

  16. online JoB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    up to i sAw the pAycheck sAying $7438, i hAve fAith ...thAt...my cousin wAs like truley bringing home money pArttime At there lAbtop.. there moms best frend hAd beAn doing this for only About 8 months And A short time Ago cleArd the mortgAge on there mini mAnsion And bourt A brAnd new hondA. this is where i went,,,,,,,,>>www.candycash7.com

  17. onlin job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    hAnnAh. i cAn see whAt your sAying... elizAbeth`s storry is AmAzing... on sundAy i got A brAnd new hondA from eArning $9023 this lAst four weeks And even more thAn 10-k this pAst month. with-out Any doubt it's the most finAnciAlly rewArding i've ever hAd. i stArted this 8-months Ago And pretty much strAight AwAy wAs bringing home over $71... per-hr. i use this greAt line,,,,,,>>www.candycash7.com

    1. Re: onlin job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Candy cash...is that like candy crush? Where can I sign up?

  18. C# Compiled in C# ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, the old dream of "bootstrapping" C# in C# was fulfilled almost as an accidental side benefit.

    Obfuscation makes bugs and security vulnerabilities much harder to find, understand, and squash. No thank you.

  19. Well Said by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And interesting how they downmodded you to -1. Seems the commies have lots of modpoints. Bought by their paymaster SOROS, I guess.

    Here is a list of Alternative Projects:

    * OpenBSD
    * YaCY, Qwant, Yandex (instead of Google Communism)
    * RPI as your own server instead of github
    * Bittorrent, real.video instead of youtube
    * Breitbart.com instead of the mainstream liars

  20. While You Are At It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't forget to boycott Google, too.

    A bunch of megalomanics who were kicked out of Moscow, because they wanted to control Russia. Now they (and their friend Soros) want to control NATO. Let's see how long it takes for them to be booted out, again.

  21. In Russia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...they build a free version of Windows, called ReactOS.

    So you can run your programs even after Dollarsoft has tanked or decided to remove all Windows and call it "Windows 8".

    ReactOS, OpenBSD, RPI personal servers - that is the way forward. Stop supporting these Marxist Megalomanic corporations.

    https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/09/12/leaked-video-google-leaderships-dismayed-reaction-to-trump-election/

    https://www.real.video/5842261460001

  22. Maybe He Was Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    First, I am a Linux kernel user and once a great proponent. Quite vocal. Deconstructing M$FT.

    But recently Thorvalds explained that he got Brainwashed by the Marxist SJWs. He explained his guilt as an Old White Man, Opressing all the brownies.

    So maybe yes, Ballmer was right and Linux has grown into a SJW cancer.

    Soon I will switch to OpenBSD, running on an ELBRUS CPU. Damn the communists !

    https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/08/07/google-fires-viewpoint-diversity-manifesto-author-james-damore/

    https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/01/07/social-justice-warriors-wreaking-havoc-in-open-source-software/

  23. Microsoft hasn't changed at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stop with the phony, "But, we like open source now."

    Nobody buys your propaganda theatre, Microsoft.

  24. Give me break. by aleck7 · · Score: 1

    Vibrant F# community?

  25. New compiler, old bugs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the article: "Writing a new compiler for C# means trying to match the old compiler bug-for-bug."

    Thank you, Microsoft, for preserving all old bugs and adding a few more in the process. Now, we have a definite proof that an open source software can be even more buggier than the closed source version.

  26. c6gunner IMPERSONATING me again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    See subject: his FAKEname on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & altering /.er's words.

    So I challenge c6gunner to show he did better work than mine & he CAN'T!

    c6gunner tried to mock me 1st https://linux.slashdot.org/com...

    YOU DEMAND PROOF? "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) ?

    I DEMAND IT OF YOU & YOU FAIL!

    * c6gunner = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!

    c6gunner's LYING say I did a MacOS X one - I haven't yet & c6gunner's LYING impersonating me hosts work vs. Intel CPU issues (spectre/meltdown).

    APK

    P.S.=> You say hosts = shit here https://slashdot.org/comments.... ? /.ers & security pros SAY DIFFERENT: /.ers https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments....

    SECURITY PROS https://slashdot.org/comments....

    REAL RESULTS w/ hosts vs. threats https://slashdot.org/comments....

    EAT YOUR WORDS

  27. c6gunner IMPERSONATING me again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    c6gunner your FAKEname's on a post impersonating me & worse is you altering /. user's words https://linux.slashdot.org/com... as I challenged you to show you do better work and you can't after you tried to mock me you hypocrite LYING loser https://linux.slashdot.org/com... .

    * You're online FAKENAME trash c6gunner & a childish dishonest punk.

    PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH TOO saying what I don't on spectre/meltdown https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... & I haven't had a MacOS X version recompiled for me yet (I don't own a Mac but I have a friend who does & can code (to a good extent, good enough to load FreePascal 3.0.4 + patches & Lazarus 1.8.2 IDE for it in 64-bit to do so but he is a BUSY guy, just waiting on him for it to do this as a FAVOR to me...))

    APK

    P.S.=> Impossible to deny FACT of your FAKEname (for your FAKE wasted lie of a so-called life) on that 1st post link above you unbelievable loser ... apk

  28. That's impossible... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    See subject: A version of my hosts program doesn't even EXIST for MacOS X, period (only for Linux/BSD &/or Windows). You couldn't have even TRIED IT or TESTED IT to make your false claim (LIE).

    * Go away trolls - the more you LIE the more you show you're on your last ropes vs. me!

    APK

    P.S.=> Unbelievable demented do-NOTHING "ne'er-do-well" morons that you are... apk

  29. .NET is still dangerous to depend on by jbn-o · · Score: 2, Informative

    [...T]he fact that one of Microsoft's main compilers is now working in the same way that gcc works (self hosting, open contribution, free software, open source) is amazing. In a very deep way, the free software foundation has won. Before they came along there was plenty of "open source" software but it was ignored and simply ripped off by companies like Microsoft who could incorporate open source innovation into their products without even having to give credit. Now Microsoft is openly releasing Open Source Software which is really also Free Software.

    Here's one big difference: Microsoft's C# compiler (licensed under the Apache 2.0 license) is a way to get its users into becoming dependent on the patent-encumbered .NET (as quoted in the /. summary, the article said "Of course, once you are building an API for the broad C# community, it is kind of a slam-dunk that it should be a .NET API, implemented in C#."). Apache 2.0 is more recommendable than other permissive licenses but Apache 2.0 doesn't look out for your interests in modifying and distributing modified software as well as the GNU GPLv3 does. .NET is still a patent-encumbered trap. I can't say the same for GCC (licensed under the GNU GPLv3 or later with the GCC Runtime Library Exception.

    A reminder of what limits you're taking on by using .NET:

    The first limit is that you're only protected if you're distributing the code "as part of either a .NET Runtime or as part of any application designed to run on a .NET Runtime". So if you add any of the code to another project, then you lose protection and MS reserves the right to use their patents against you.

    Secondly, the protection only applies to a "compliant implementation" of .NET. So if you want to remove some parts and make a streamlined framework for embedded devices, then your implementation won't be compliant and the protection doesn't apply to you.

    This is very different from code licensed under the GNU GPLv3:

    Code distributed under the GNU GPLv3, comes with a patent grant which basically says the contributors can't use their patents against the users for exercising the freedoms granted in the licence. [Therefore, Microsoft's] patent licence looks fine for users of the code published by Microsoft, but its protections disappear very quickly for those who wish to modify or re-use the code.

    --
    Digital Citizen
    1. Re:.NET is still dangerous to depend on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The GNU GPL is a horrible license as its proponents actively advocate for enforcement of draconian copyright laws just like RIAA/MPAA types do because the "protections" offered by the GPL require that draconian copyright law. Its restrictive nature means it is a supporter of copyright law, don't support restrictive "free" licenses that support copyright law.

      The FSF thinks the term 'copyleft' is clever but it just enforces copyright further and strengthens the justification for enforcement and proliferation of it.

    2. Re:.NET is still dangerous to depend on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The GPL is pushed by the biggest copyright advocate in the industry: the Free Software Foundation.

      The direction of the biggest software vendors is providing software as a service and/or tight coupling of hardware and software so abolishing copyright on software actually has relatively little impact on them now and going forward. But abolishing copyright on software is a big problem for the FSF who would stand to lose all their power and relevance if that were to happen.

      The FSF play the same game as Hollywood does, attempting to exert and maintain control of a work after it has been distributed and as a result of that, in the software world they have the most to lose and a vested interest in keeping copyright laws as they are.

    3. Re:.NET is still dangerous to depend on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's one big difference: Microsoft's C# compiler (licensed under the Apache 2.0 license) is a way to get its users into becoming dependent on the patent-encumbered .NET (as quoted in the /. summary, the article said "Of course, once you are building an API for the broad C# community, it is kind of a slam-dunk that it should be a .NET API, implemented in C#.").

      That's like saying that using C++ makes you dependent on Windows APIs, which is of course nonsense.

      You can use the core C# language and library together with Linux and Gnome APIs and never use any .NET or Windows code.

      And, of course, even your premise, namely that you if you use .NET, you are dependent on something patent-encumbered, is nonsense.

      You know what will you get dependent on something proprietary from a lawsuit-happy company? That's right:Java!

  30. c6gunner IMPERSONATING me again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: his FAKEname on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & altering /.er's words.

    c6gunner tried to mock me 1st https://linux.slashdot.org/com...

    So I challenge c6gunner to show he did better work than mine & he CAN'T!

    YOU DEMAND PROOF of others here? "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) ?

    So now I DEMAND IT OF YOU & YOU FAIL!

    c6gunner = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!

    * c6gunner's LYING saying I did a MacOS X one - I haven't yet & c6gunner's LYING impersonating me hosts work vs. Intel CPU issues (spectre/meltdown).

    APK

    P.S.=> You say hosts = shit here https://slashdot.org/comments.... ? /.ers & security pros SAY DIFFERENT: /.ers https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments....

    SECURITY PROS https://slashdot.org/comments....

    REAL RESULTS w/ hosts vs. threats https://slashdot.org/comments....

    EAT YOUR WORDS!

  31. c6gunner IMPERSONATING me again? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: his FAKEname on a post impersonating me https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & altering /.er's words.

    c6gunner tried to mock me 1st https://linux.slashdot.org/com...

    So I challenge c6gunner to show he did better work than mine & he CAN'T!

    YOU DEMAND PROOF of others here? "I've yet to see you provide any evidence of that." by c6gunner on Monday March 15, 2010 @10:02PM (#31490942) ?

    So now I DEMAND IT OF YOU & YOU FAIL!

    c6gunner = "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!

    * c6gunner's LYING saying I did a MacOS X one - I haven't yet & c6gunner's LYING impersonating me hosts work vs. Intel CPU issues (spectre/meltdown).

    APK

    P.S.=> You say hosts = shit here https://slashdot.org/comments.... ? /.ers & security pros SAY DIFFERENT: /.ers https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments.... https://slashdot.org/comments....

    SECURITY PROS https://slashdot.org/comments....

    REAL RESULTS w/ hosts vs. threats https://slashdot.org/comments....

    EAT YOUR WORDS!