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Amazon Is Eliminating Bonuses, Stock Awards to Help Pay for Raises (bloomberg.com)

Amazon is eliminating monthly bonuses and stock awards for warehouse workers and other hourly employees after the company pledged this week to raise pay to at least $15 an hour, Bloomberg reported Wednesday. From a report: Warehouse workers for the e-commerce giant in the U.S. were eligible in the past for monthly bonuses that could total hundreds of dollars per month as well as stock awards, said two people familiar with Amazon's pay policies. The company informed those employees Wednesday that it's eliminating both of those compensation categories to help pay for the raises, the people said. Amazon received plaudits when it announced Monday that the company would raise its minimum pay. The pay increase warded off criticism from politicians and activists, and put the company in a good position to recruit temporary workers for the important holiday shopping season.

28 of 152 comments (clear)

  1. The raises are worth more by edtice1559 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Amazon actually put out a statement on this that isn't in the TFS. Surveys showed that current employees would prefer more predictable pay to the bonuses. Makes sense when your income is relatively low. Bonuses are nice but you can't count on them. Being assured of a paycheck is more useful short-term. Now maybe Amazon is full of it in their statement but TFS is one-sided in a misleading way.

    1. Re:The raises are worth more by torkus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bonuses don't work better for salaried employees - they work better for employees already making enough and can then treat it as an actual BONUS. Ya know, instead of something they need to pay for food or rent

      --
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    2. Re:The raises are worth more by barc0001 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm not sure how Amazon does their bonuses, but for many salaried positions I've been at, a bonus is a tantalizing carrot that appears much larger than when it's finally in your hands - if it gets there at all. The company can have a "bad quarter" or "bad year" and suspend them, they can allocate a certain amount per group and the the manager divvies it up according to their whims instead of using metrics, etc.

      At this point in my career any time a manager talks about a bonus, I'll believe it exists when I see it land in my bank account, not before. So others in the company below me pay-wise getting a raise and eliminating some fairy tale bonus that probably wouldn't materialize to cover that? Sounds fine to me.

  2. Isn't this what people wanted? by JeffOwl · · Score: 2, Funny

    Everyone gets paid the same regardless of productivity? This should be good news for those advocating the $15/hr minimum wage.

    1. Re:Isn't this what people wanted? by CryptoBear · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you only make $50k a year in a tech-heavy field in Silicon Valley I feel bad for you. Your employer is literally paying you peanuts.

    2. Re:Isn't this what people wanted? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 3, Informative

      Whoosh...

      The "I make $50K/year in Silicon Valley" thing is a Slashdot in-joke

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    3. Re:Isn't this what people wanted? by edtice1559 · · Score: 2

      I have no idea how your comment ties into the article. And it doesn't even tie into minimum wage increases. Every employer understands the follow-on effect. If a brand-new, less productive person is going to make a certain wage, those who are more productive and have been around longer demand higher pay. When minimum wage goes up, you have to increase the pay not just of those making less than minimum wage. It's one of the standard arguments against this. And again, this is in Amazon's statement. "Amazon said those who are already making $15 an hour will see an increase in pay but did not specify how much." https://finance.yahoo.com/news...

    4. Re:Isn't this what people wanted? by OrangeTide · · Score: 5, Funny

      Your employer is literally paying you peanuts.

      May 2018 price for Groundnuts (peanuts) is $1,420/metric ton. 35 metric tons of nuts is fucking nuts.

      How would an employer even ship and store that many nuts for their employees. It would be the literally worst business decision.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    5. Re:Isn't this what people wanted? by XXongo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Everyone gets paid the same regardless of productivity? This should be good news for those advocating the $15/hr minimum wage.

      Yep. Defining "productivity" is at the whim of the employer, and "paying for productivity" is a well-proven strategy for lowering wages.

      In most businesses, the things that reduce productivity are screw-ups by management, not by the people actually doing the work.

    6. Re:Isn't this what people wanted? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      It's actually a minimum wage, so employees can receive wage raises for merit if Amazon so chooses.

      The median wage tends to follow the minimum wage as a proportion of productivity, which means a minimum wage not kept up with productivity gains just gets you a larger, less-wealthy work force instead of making the workers wealthier. Had the minimum wage stayed at 1960s levels, the United States would likely have around 270 million population today, and a median household income of $115,000--the dollar number might be different (more or less inflation), but the purchasing power would be what $115k buys today.

      Of course that brings us back to the age of the bourgeoisie and the proles: while a great many households have a mere $40k income, the middle-class lavishes in its $120k lifestyle. Of course the haute would be around the same $200k lifestyle they occupy today, and the rich above them.

    7. Re:Isn't this what people wanted? by AuMatar · · Score: 2

      Eh, you should almost always cash in stock. Having your savings and your income from the same company is a huge risk- in a downturn you lose your savings and income at the same time. Better to be invested anywhere else. Besides, if you want shares of FOO you can buy them on the open market. The only time this isn't true is preIPO.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    8. Re:Isn't this what people wanted? by DogDude · · Score: 2

      $50,000 indicates that he/she is paid in US dollars, not peanuts. He/she is literally getting paid in US dollars. Maybe you mean he/she is getting paid figuratively in peanuts?

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    9. Re:Isn't this what people wanted? by Jarik+C-Bol · · Score: 2

      Your comment reminds me of all the times i've read/been told that roman soldiers were payed in salt, thereby explaining the saying of someone "being worth their salt". And all I ever think about is how incredibly inconvenient it would be to get payed in raw commodity.

      Yep, here's this months pay, a 120 kilo block of salt. (based on quick google searches of roman pay)
      Now you gotta haul this heavy damn block to the local market, find someone who is buying salt,(because probably the local tailor is not accepting raw salt as currency) get a fair deal for your salt, (better hurry, before the other soldiers get there and flood the market with salt). and then, finally, go about purchasing your needed goods.

      I suspect it was all dealt with via some form of official IOU, but on the surface, the idea seems hilariously inconvenient.

      --
      I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
    10. Re:Isn't this what people wanted? by OrangeTide · · Score: 2

      Luckily for Roman soldiers the whole paying in salt thing was very likely a back-formation invented by Pliny from assumptions on the meaning of the word salaries. And the section of his book where he mentioned this was more about facts relating to salt than about soldiers or economics. In Pliny's time soldiers were paid in coin, and have been since around 100-150 years before Pliny's time (Marian reforms).

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    11. Re:Isn't this what people wanted? by Enigma2175 · · Score: 2

      It appears that the whole notion of Roman soldiers being paid in salt (or salt equivalent) is a fairly recent invention and there don't appear to be any contemporary sources that back it up. It's just a myth, so don't try to reason it out too much. (source)

      --

      Enigma

  3. Automation is going to change the balance of power by goombah99 · · Score: 2

    pay raises are more desirable than bonuses since they are cumulative. But of course, total compensation is total compensation and bonuses allow more merit recognition at the cost of lowering the retention aspects of higher salaries.

    Since amazon is going to more and more automation it may turn out that those higher paying jobs will be gone in a few years making this non-cumulative and just the same as a bonus from amaazons point of view. The higher they can raise the wages of their non-automated competition the better. e.g. raise the wages of UPS and Fed-ex who, susrprisingly, are not as automated as amazon, then move into their bussiness with cheaper logistics, drone delivery.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  4. You want to know what you're going to be paid by XXongo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, indeed, people mostly prefer being told what they will make, instead of a "we will maybe pay you more if we feel like it, or maybe not, we'll let you know later" salary

    1. Re:You want to know what you're going to be paid by DCFusor · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, they can go deeper into debt slavery that way - constant income is a loan magnet. Which is a key way society as it is tends to keep the poor, poor. Back when there was a Bunker-Ramo, I worked there as a high level engineer. Our new hires, mostly making more than they ever had, were going way deep into debt to get that "good life" they always dreamed of and marketing everywhere sells you.
      This kinda bothered me - I liked the people under me - so I went to higher management with kinda WTF, should we educate them better on their options for financial security (we were in a high risk contracting business).
      Answer - nope, that way they can't quit so easily....(meaning, we own them now and don't have to treat them well anymore).
      I quit...

      --
      Why guess when you can know? Measure!
    2. Re:You want to know what you're going to be paid by cayenne8 · · Score: 2

      es, they can go deeper into debt slavery that way - constant income is a loan magnet. Which is a key way society as it is tends to keep the poor, poor. Back when there was a Bunker-Ramo, I worked there as a high level engineer. Our new hires, mostly making more than they ever had, were going way deep into debt to get that "good life" they always dreamed of and marketing everywhere sells you.

      Err...well, it's called "welcome to the real world", where you need to learn to live and act like and adult, and live within your means.

      People have been doing it as long as the modern world has been around.

      It isn't rocket surgery.

      And advertising and marketing aren't magic entities that force you to buy things. Sure it makes things tempting, but again....you are supposed to be an adult and make adult decisions.

      You can't live peoples' lives for them.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re:You want to know what you're going to be paid by sjames · · Score: 2

      Otoh, inconsistent income forces workers to very expensive and barely legal payday loans. Not only is that worse, but they can't avoid it even if they know it's a bad idea. Unlike the loans you are worried about.

    4. Re:You want to know what you're going to be paid by DCFusor · · Score: 2

      Inconsistent income - live within the means of the consistent part, and there's no forcing anyone to do anything stupid like a payday loan. What are you smoking? So the marketing that "you/they need this and deserve it even if you can't afford it" worked on you so well you believe its the only truth? Gheesh.
      When I had little money I just lived like a monk in a monastery. Great motivation to fix that issue - it's not like most people should consider low level employ at a place like Amazon to be a real career and not think of how to improve their lot (and do something about it other than complain). I didn't borrow.
      And now I'm pretty well off, with good habits. At least, it worked for me, what should I tell others? Stuff that didn't?

      --
      Why guess when you can know? Measure!
    5. Re:You want to know what you're going to be paid by sjames · · Score: 2

      That only works if your base pay is actually enough to live within. Otherwise, you're stuck depending on bonuses to live, and suffering payday loans when the bonus doesn't come. It's better to do away with the bonuses (that is, money your employer pays you if/when he feels like it) and have a consistent income that makes ends meet.

      I'm betting you haven't asked your employer to flip a coin to decide if you get paid this month or not.

    6. Re:You want to know what you're going to be paid by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 3, Insightful

      it's called "welcome to the real world", where you need to learn to live and act like and adult, and live within your means.

      I agree. And a great way people learn most things is in school or with classes. I mean, no one said to you "welcome to the real world, there's physics, figure it out".

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    7. Re:You want to know what you're going to be paid by Uberbah · · Score: 2

      Yes, they can go deeper into debt slavery that way - constant income is a loan magnet.

      Nothing compared to pay day loan companies that "help" people avoid homelessness with friendly, 6,000% loans. Your confirmation bias and anecdote of some kid splurging with his first real paycheck after living on Ramen for four years aside.

  5. Re:Stock awards are on the way out, in general by Darinbob · · Score: 2

    I wouldn't mind this. Most places I have been the stock price is essentially flat, with small blips at the most. The RSUs being given out instead of bonuses is a bit of a pain - I have to wait for them to vest, and if I leave the company I don't get all of them. Whereas the cash bonus means I have cash to do whatever I want with.

    Often the goal here is to incentivize the worker to do a good job so that the stock goes up. But workers don't have this ability as most of a stock's price has nothing whatsoever to do with how well an individual worker does their job, or even how well a department does their job. The stock price is innately tied to the mood of third party analysts and whether or not the CEO is saying anything to the media.

    Employees who've been around a bit have learned to sell when they can. That "15% below the market price on a certain day" stock purchase plan means you should to sell immediately and not hold onto it, especially if you're not a day trader who's constantly watching the price. It's always been good advice to diversify of course, but there's also been advice I've heard many times that you shouldn't put too much into the company you work for (see Enron). You can be too biased towards your own company and hear too much irrational exuberance at the water cooler, so it's a good idea to take that money and put it somewhere else.

  6. Re:Good move. Bonuses are taxed more by Moof123 · · Score: 3, Informative

    You are an idiot. You must think your annual refund is "free money" too? Higher taxes get withheld from large checks such as one that includes a bonus, as each one calculated as if all checks were of that size. However you are taxed on your overall income for the year, so any over-payment or underpayment comes back to you come tax time.

  7. This is a classic management trick by rsilvergun · · Score: 3, Insightful

    they goal here is to get the two classes of workers (hourly and salaried) fighting among themselves and prevent them from Unionizing.

    I"m actually annoyed that, given how old /.'s audience is and how many layoffs we've all been through that nobody else seems to have pointed this out.

    It usually works. Here's hoping it fails for a change. A guy like Bernie can keep it from happening, but we need a new Bernie. The one we have is pretty old :(...

    --
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  8. Many will be raised to above $15 minimum by RhettLivingston · · Score: 2

    I was talking to an Amazon employee today who said it appears that they are definitely performing a compression of lower range employee salaries to implement this minimum - as I would expect.

    What this means is that their lowest paid workers will be raised to $15 / hour. Others paid more than that will likely be raised to higher than that. So, for example, someone making $10 / hour might go to $15 and someone making $13 / hour might go to $17.

    The employee had no idea how high the salary compression would go, but presumably, there is a stopping point. Perhaps someone at $25 / hour will still get $25 / hour and everyone under some ceiling of the compression range will get something depending on how close they are to that ceiling.

    This makes sense because positions that make more should still make more, and it avoids throwing away rewards given for performance and experience.

    The employee I spoke to was making closer to $20 / hour and is expecting that this will result in a raise.