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Microsoft's Problem Isn't How Often it Updates Windows -- It's How It Develops It (arstechnica.com)

Ever since Microsoft settled on a cadence of two feature updates a year -- one in April, one in October -- the quality of its operating system (taking into consideration the volume of bugs that emerge every few days) has deteriorated, writes Peter Bright of ArsTechnica. From the story: The problem with Windows as a Service is quality. Previous issues with the feature and security updates have already shaken confidence in Microsoft's updating policy for Windows 10. While data is notably lacking, there is at the very least a popular perception that the quality of the monthly security updates has taken a dive with Windows 10 and that installation of the twice-annual feature updates as soon as they're available is madness. These complaints are long-standing, too. The unreliable updates have been a cause for concern since shortly after Windows 10's release.

The latest problem has brought this to a head, with commentators saying that two feature updates a year is too many and Redmond should cut back to one, and that Microsoft needs to stop developing new features and just fix bugs. Some worry that the company is dangerously close to a serious loss of trust over updates, and for some Windows users, that trust may already have been broken. These are not the first calls for Microsoft to slow down with its feature updates -- there have been concerns that there's too much churn for both IT and consumer audiences alike to handle -- but with the obvious problems of the latest update, the calls take on a new urgency.

36 of 227 comments (clear)

  1. Imagine owning a car... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Imagine owning a car. One fine morning, you wake up and the steering wheel has been moved from left to right, and the brake pedal is on the ceiling. You call up the manufacturer, ask "why'd you do that."

    Answer: "it's better, you'll get used to be new driver experience."

    1. Re:Imagine owning a car... by Luthair · · Score: 2

      Funny you should bring up the car..... but there have been significant problems, including deaths caused by car manufacturers mucking with how the gear lever works.

    2. Re:Imagine owning a car... by thegarbz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sensationalist FUD much? Microsoft has never updated Windows 10 with such a jarring UI change. The Windows 10 steering wheel is where it has always been, as is every other fundamental control you need to use the OS.

      A more accurate description would be owning a car and waking up to find the air-conditioning controls now have a few different control options, oh and as part of that it set itself back from Celsius to Fahrenheit, also additional prompts now come up with different alarms while driving. Maybe the dashboard speed indicators have changed colours.

      Sounds horrible doesn't it?

      Personally it's a feature of exactly the car I want to buy: https://electrek.co/2018/09/03...

    3. Re:Imagine owning a car... by squiggleslash · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, he's right, because what you're describing is what Microsoft is doing by accident, whereas what he's describing is the experience Microsoft intends you to have. We've gone from Windows 7, which, while not rock solid, could have uptimes measured in years and had a consistent, obvious, user interface, to Windows 10 which intentionally crashes (sorry, "updates") once a week, and which has UI changes that are mandatory every six months that result in users having to relearn basics like "Where in the settings do I change this?"

      That's ignoring the bugs. Your files being deleted? That's an accident. Everything above, that's on purpose. That's already terrible and Microsoft needs to stop it.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    4. Re:Imagine owning a car... by omfglearntoplay · · Score: 2

      Is it normal practice still in Microsoft (and other big shops) to have devs who write code as fast as possible with zero time spent on fixing broken code? They shuffle all the broken first pass code to their B team and have them try to figure it out, which much take forever since you have to figure out where the other person's mind was.

      This just seems like it begs for bugs and issues. But it surely gets code out the door fast!!!

    5. Re:Imagine owning a car... by Torodung · · Score: 2

      While some seem to prefer the ribbon, to me it exchanged one arbitrary grouping of features for another arbitrary grouping. One gets around in Office by memorizing where shit is, NOT because of their lovely menus/ribbons. It was a stupid UI move in my opinion.

      The purpose of the ribbon is advertising. It exposes features that you may not be thinking of, especially ones that will lock you into the "Office Open XML" file formats.

      Less marketable features are small, or buried. If this happens to be a feature you often use, you're SOL and you have to Google where the hell it is.

      So the ribbon is doing exactly what it's supposed to. Expose styles, and conditional formatting, and all the stuff MS wishes you would use at the expense of your ability to actually use the product with your own work habits. There's a reason those features are placed near the middle, and in some cases get an enormous amount of ribbon space. It's an ad. "Please use the product in a way that helps Microsoft" is the message.

      You want easy access to that one feature that MS doesn't care about? You get a spot waaaay over on the right of the ribbon where you can put it. That's about what MS thinks of your own priorities.

  2. Re:SDLC by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 3, Insightful

    0. Introduce random UX changes that no one needs or wants because oooooh! shinyyy!

  3. This, indeed this... by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My biggest bugaboo is that Windows updates obliterates the CUDA-enabled nVidia video driver I have installed on the laptop, and replaces it with the craptastic non-CUDA Microsoft WHQL driver... which is why I have the whole thing disabled as deep in the registry as humanly possible.

    Would it kill Microsoft to look for 3rd-party drivers before stomping all over shit with their own versions? I mean, if it weren't for a few CG apps (and the lack of a decent nVidia GPU in the latest MacBook Pros), I wouldn't care, but damn...

    --
    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    1. Re: This, indeed this... by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not a question of marketing, I promise. The Iray render engine (built into a lot of CG rendering suites and apps nowadays) requires CUDA-enabled drivers, or else the render kicks to CPU for calculations, causing render times to go up by factors. This means a 30-minute render suddenly takes, say, an hour and a half... if you're lucky.

      Microsoft's WHQL GPU/video driver has CUDA disabled, so you're stuck with CPU (not GPU) rendering - and you usually don't find out until after it begins. Also, when you have a 6-12GB GPU card, all that RAM goes to waste under Microsoft's driver. :/

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    2. Re:This, indeed this... by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Would it kill Microsoft to look for 3rd-party drivers before stomping all over shit with their own versions?

      That's not the issue. The third party drivers published to Windows Update should be the same as the vendor actually ships. Windows won't automatically overwrite a driver unless there's a new version or a WHQL version of the existing driver... and you can disable the touching of drivers in windows (it's under System, not under the Update Settings).

      Normally I would say the manufacturer fouled something up, but in this specific update there were a LOT of problems relating to drivers even before the file deletion bug came up. They really fouled up this update bigtime.

    3. Re:This, indeed this... by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 2

      You're not getting it. Microsoft believes that it owns your computer, not you, and that that's right and good and the natural order of things. You're just a silly child, irresponsible and irrational, and what you want is not relevant; they see themselves as the parent in this scenario. It may sound like I'm spinning conspiracy theories but functionally speaking what I'm saying is accurate. Microsoft doesn't want you being the administrator of your own personal computer, they feel they're the only ones qualified to do that, and being True Believers in this concept, they have no reason to doubt themselves or listen to any opposing viewpoint. The exception is Enterprise systems, in which case they must cede some control to the corporations that are buying thousands of licenses from them. What you, the private single end-user wants, is irrelevant. They'll replace your questionable 'third party' driver with the one they wrote and qualified because they believe that's what's best. You should feel lucky they don't lock you out of drivers entirely, because they could if they wanted to. All of this is why Microsoft is to be avoided now.

  4. Computer SCIENCE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I just wonder what happened to software ENGINEERING.

    Why is it that user data ends up scattered everywhere ?

    Why not have all the Windows software run from a read only directory,
    and all Apps & Programs added on run from their own read only directory,
    and keep all user info in its own User directory.

    Things get scattered about and stuffed in hidden directories, etc.

    I would like to see microsoft sort out the OS and default apps / office, so all of it runs from its own read only drive.

    Then all data and cookies and registry, etc gets stored on its own drive or separate folder.

    Also it would be best if they made Windows & Office completely portable so it can just run off a flash drive keychain & not be so tied up into lengthy installs into a PC.

    Licenses can be sold to people and businesses and not linked to hardware platforms.

    1. Re: Computer SCIENCE by Londovir · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I get what you're trying to say, but it would be nice if you didn't phrase it in a way that makes you a douche. My Computer Science degree, with the countless hours spent implementing every well known sorting algorithm, search algorithm, data manipulation algorithm, data structures, and other things that were done well decades ago, says your concept of requesting a lack of an engineering degree to being a code monkey is crap. A degree doesn't have to have the word engineering in it to be a valuable degree program. Hell, it doesn't have to be taught in a college of engineering either. It's the content and curriculum that matter. I'd argue it's more likely that the company has pushed their developers to release faster and faster, without the time needed to properly test and QA their work. You can be a vaunted engineer, and if you are being rushed, you'll make mistakes. Look at Apple... You could make the same arguments about the last 3 versions of iOS being substandard for quality as the Windows 10 updates have been lately. I doubt Apple has code monkeys, as you'd call it; I think they are just rushing their workers to market.

      --
      Londovir
    2. Re: Computer SCIENCE by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You don't have to have a degree to be an engineer, and you can have a degree and still not be one. It is about competence not certification paperwork. I would wager that most incompetent people in the industry have a degree but instead of approaching the problem as an engineering one, the start writing code on day one because they don't know any better, and that is how management thinks it is done.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  5. Go backup the older days of SP's also windows serv by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    Go backup the older days of SP's also windows server is a bit slower but 2016 really needs an SP or update roll-up to fix the long updates.

  6. Re:SDLC by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    forgot 1A lay off QA team and pass it to unpaid Beta Testers

  7. "dangerously close to loss of trust"? Well past! by DutchUncle · · Score: 3, Funny

    Anyone I know who uses Windows does all they can to prevent updates, including - perhaps especially - IT departments. For some strange reason, it only takes one time of the CEO having his computer go into a forced update in the middle of a presentation to lenders, and policy changes REAL fast.

  8. So what? by nagora · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If Microsoft Windows was only bought based on its quality and reliability there wouldn't have been a Windows 3, and if there had then ME would have killed it off, and of not then Vista would have, and if not then Windows 10... and so it goes one. Windows has never really been ready for the desktop - it's still unbearably bad/slow at even simple file handling.

    Microsoft have zero incentive to do things better because the market never punishes them for their mistakes. They just shrug their shoulders and carry on regardless.

    --
    "Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
    1. Re:So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Microsoft have zero incentive to do things better because the market never punishes them for their mistakes

      Sounds like a failure of the market. If Windows is so terribly unusable, then how come it hasn't been supplanted by macOS/Linux? Businesses aren't going to use tools that specifically work worse than others, so there must be some reason they haven't doubled down on any alternatives that could serve them better.

      It's called a monopoly.... Microsoft has one, and there are no other viable choices. When you're the only game in town, you can do pretty much whatever you want.

    2. Re:So what? by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      and if not then Windows 10... and so it goes one.

      To be fair to the complaints, Windows 10 is the second flop in a row. That IS a first for Microsoft.

      it's still unbearably bad/slow at even simple file handling.

      File handling itself is fine. The way information about files is aggregated and displayed to users is what is frustrating. e.g. File save dialogues which have custom sorting for a folder and have thumbnails enabled load the thumbnail cache before sorting. That is truly frigging dumb. It's not that file handling is slow, it's that Windows does stuff not relevant for the user at odd times.

    3. Re: So what? by jd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's easy to answer.

      1. Businesses like the fantasy of someone to blame, Linux robs them of that

      2. Linux for the desktop was killed by OSDL and hardware vendors

      3. MacOS, OS/X and Linux don't have the range of applications needed

      4. Microsoft's Truth campaign

      5. Microsoft taxing vendors if they supply rival OS'

      6. Microsoft bribing ISO

      7. Legacy install base

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    4. Re: So what? by jd · · Score: 3

      Who cares what you make? Past cost of living, money is a number.

      It's how well you work and how positive that is in the broader picture.

      Windows of all kinds is of very low quality. It has a defect density somewhere between ten to a hundred times that of Linux. It is fantastically insecure and unstable. The office suite is so poor, Microsoft had to bribe ISO to recognise the format. The UI for Office is cumbersome and gets in the way of doing anything productive.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  9. Re:SDLC by greenwow · · Score: 2

    And don't finish the UI changes you start. See the control panel.

    Just sucks that Microsoft has gotten rid of so many good employees that they can't finish that task they started over five years ago.

  10. Shout all you want, the response will be the same: by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Fuck you, who else are you going to go to?"

    --
    A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
  11. Re:SDLC by Penguinisto · · Score: 3, Informative

    This sounds like the Apple way

    Depends... if we're talking iOS, you'd be spot-on.

    MacOS (OSX) on the other hand? They got that stability/performance shit down fairly cold. My last MacBook Pro (5 years old, my wife inherited it last month, uses it daily) only got one OS re-install, and that was because I swapped out the old platter drive for an SSD not long after I bought it.

    Zero stability issues, something like 5-6 OS upgrades on the same disk, a zillion patches/app-updates/etc... no sweat. Even today, it still runs as tight and fast as it did when I bought it in 2013. Only reason that I'm still not using it is because the 512MB GeForce in it doesn't run the Iray render engine worth a damn (slow old GPU, no RAM to speak of on it, etc.)

    --
    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  12. There is a problem with how it updates it... by Dwedit · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There actually is a problem with how it updates it. You see, Windows was designed to emit a two-byte NOP at the beginning of every function, just so it could be hotpatched to redirect to a longer jump instruction. This mechanism would allow reboot-free updating of core system files.

    I don't see any reboot-free updating of core system files here.

  13. "Fix bugs" by tambo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Microsoft needs to stop developing new features and just fix bugs."

    Generally true, but what does Microsoft do about core features that are so intensely buggy that they are literally unsalvageable?

    • The Windows registry is a dumpster fire.
    • The Windows role-based security model is an unmitigated headache.
    • App compatibility is so bad that Windows still has a "Program Files" folder and a "Program Files (x86)" folder.
    • Windows Help has been beyond useless for the entire lifespan of Windows. It's so bad that people resort to MSDN, which is also beyond useless.
    --
    Computer over. Virus = very yes.
  14. Windows = Spam & Snoop Engine by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    with commentators saying that two feature updates a year is too many and Redmond should cut back to one, and that Microsoft needs to stop developing new features and just fix bugs.

    My observation is that M$ is experimenting with either different ways to spam Windows users, and/or looking for ways to force them into their cloud/store to (hopefully) rent or buy services through it. This is probably the main reason for changes.

    I get "Windows notifications" of new or upgraded services offered by M$. The pretty login screens sometimes show vacation spots that M$ appears to be sponsoring*. (I must admit, I have clicked out of curiosity after seeing some nice photo. I fed the troll, and had to shower afterward.) And MS-Paint has a notice toolbar icon that the app will be moving to the cloud soon with a link to their store. The app may be free (now), but they can get you into their store to shop around if they move their usual Windows goodies up there.

    They look at Google App Store and Apple Store as their future revenue growth, not selling OS's. The OS is to become their ad and MS-cloud tie-in platform. Linux-based OS's are slowly nipping at their OS cash cow, and they are scrambling for alternative revenue. They lost the phone and tablet OS wars, and consumers and small biz are slowly but increasingly shifting to Android and arguably Apple for desktop replacements or alternatives. New users only use M$ for compatibility, not because they want to. M$ is being pushed to be the new IBM, and Google is the new M$, but M$ won't go quietly, since they see how IBM is struggling to remain relevant. (IBM's A.I. ads have desperate PHB written all over them.)

    Cloud is their only recent success story; thus, they're hellbent in turning Windows into an MS-cloud portal. I'd do the same if I were a greedy MS executive trying to leverage the co's only success.

    * To be fair, I haven't found a direct tie yet, but some appear very suspicious. I should turn off the login wallpaper, but have to admit they supply some cool pics if you use the tuning feature to see what you like.

  15. Re:Yet another failure of capitalism by Radical+Moderate · · Score: 2

    That's often true, but not in this case. Nobody "buys" windows for features, they get it because it came installed on their computer and that's what they need to run their software. No one's going to switch from Mac or Linux because File Explorer offers dark mode.

    But yeah, features are exciting and bug fixes are boring, so the suits want new features to brag about in their Powerpoints. Honestly, there's no reason MS can't do both. They're a huge company, they should be able to fix bugs and develop features at the same time. Problem is Windows is and always has been a huge mess, it needs to be modularized and compartmentalized.

    If I were king I'd start with a clean sheet, make Win 11 as backward-compatible as possible without compromising design parameters. Recognize that many "features" are actually apps and keep them sandboxed from the OS. Keep doing bug fixes for Win10 for those that are depending on legacy software, but no new features.

    --
    Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
  16. Re: Go backup the older days of SP's also windows by jd · · Score: 2

    Older days, odd number service packs bricked the machine.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  17. Re:Underuse of the word it. by raftpeople · · Score: 2

    I'm noticing some similarities to that other "IT" from the movies:
    1 - Both IT's have a crazy clown interface
    2 - Both IT's make the townspeople lives miserable (although in fairness, only one of them loses your data)

  18. Microsoft is damaging customers and itself. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Mod parent up!! However, that comment may, in some ways, be too kind.

    Microsoft is poorly managed? Plenty of evidence.

    Microsoft was badly managed 10 years ago.

    Microsoft managers lack social ability. They have done ENORMOUS DAMAGE to the Microsoft brand name. That is my best understanding and opinion.

    Some of the many, many reports of Microsoft managers thinking they can manipulate and control everyone, as though the managers are government dictators:

    Windows 10 is possibly the worst spyware ever made. "Buried in the service agreement is permission to poke through everything on your PC." (Aug. 4, 2015)

    Microsoft's Intolerable Windows 10 Aggression (May 27, 2016)

    Microsoft is infesting Windows 10 with annoying ads (March 17, 2017)

    Microsoft, stop sabotaging Windows 10. (March 21, 2017)

    A huge problem: A high percentage of people who work with Windows computers make more money if there are more problems with Microsoft and Windows. There is a conflict of interest.

    Apparently Microsoft managers decided they would try to be like Google's Android. They apparently decided to try to gather information about everything, and try to sell that information. Most people with cell phones don't have the technical knowledge necessary to know if they are being abused.

    Can a company be sued for supplying computers with Windows 10? If a company supplies Windows 10 computers to businesses and doesn't get a signed agreement from all business customers that the customers know Windows 10 allows Microsoft to gather data from their computers, the supplier could be the target of court cases, and possibly even go to prison. No business customers want Microsoft employees to have access to their company information. My opinion, shared by many others.

    People working with desktop computers don't want to be distracted by ads. They don't want to try to learn new, complicated user interfaces.

  19. Isn't that a general problem with agile dev? by MerlinTheWizard · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Despite regular bold statements that agile methods have improved everything, experience shows that it has mostly degraded software quality and consistency and only improved short-term revenue for software companies.

    Regarding Windows, this has gone downhill so much that it defies good sense. It actually used to be a pretty decent platform (at least starting with Windows NT 4 and Windows 2000), very consistent. Starting with Windows 8, it started degrading. You just have to remember their main strategy was to push forward Windows on mobile platforms. They failed spectacularly with the mobile market, yet they kept insisting with all the same methods. Windows 10 is essentially the result of a strategic failure, which is incidentally consistent with agile methods, as those basically promote no long-term vision or strategy and only focus on short-term makeshift jobs, AKA "new features".

    1. Re:Isn't that a general problem with agile dev? by blahplusplus · · Score: 2

      Windows 10 is essentially the result of a strategic failure,

      No, windows 10 is the result Microsoft seeing the mad profits of the last 20 years of software theft (aka taking control of the software) by the videogame industry (aka Ultima RPG's during the 90's become mmo's and profits explode, world of warcraft, overwatch with lootboxes and microtransactions, etc) and walled garden software model pioneered by smartphones, the videogame industry for the last 20 years has been at the forefront of wanting to get rid of software ownership and take control of the end users machine. It's been silicon valleys wet dream to basically remove control of machine from the user and turn it into a locked down walled garden like smart phones. They basically want what the videogame industry and smart phone industry want, endless stream of 'service' based software apps/micro apps, etc. To do that they are basically turning the PC into a smartphone and getting rid of user freedom.

  20. Clickbait by farble1670 · · Score: 2

    Wait, we have this clickbait title:

    Microsoft’s problem isn’t how often it updates Windows—it’s how it develops it

    but this buried in the article:

    Microsoft hasn't exactly revealed the development process being used with Windows 10

    Explanation: barely tech literate clickbait writer for Ars Technica imagines they have a clue about how software development works at Microsoft. Argue all you want about the quality of windows, but don't try to pretend you have some understanding about software development and how it's gone wrong in Redmond.

  21. Re:SDLC by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 2

    Win2k had the first iteration of Active Directory, and to be honest, it sucked balls

    Microsoft blatantly ripped off Novell Netware for AD.

    --
    We play the game with the bravery of being out of range