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Daylight Saving Time is Super Unpopular. Here Are the Countries Trying To Ditch It. (washingtonpost.com)

Posted by msmash on from the what-in-the-world dept.

Daylight Saving Time ended in the United States on Sunday, bumping the clocks back an hour. The change happened in Europe a week earlier, meaning the time difference between the continents was momentarily smaller. It's another confusing wrinkle in a confusing temporal process that confounds the world. From a story: Today, 70 countries change their clocks midyear for Daylight Saving Time, including most of North America, Europe and parts of South America and New Zealand. China, Japan, India and most countries near the equator don't fall back or jump ahead. In much of Asia and South America, the Daylight Saving Time shift was adopted, but then abandoned. It has never been observed in most of Africa. While the United States extended its Daylight Saving Time in 2005 and Florida wants to make it its standard time, other countries are moving to ditch the practice.

The European Union is weighing a plan to abandon shifting from daylight saving time midyear. "Millions ... believe that summertime should be all the time," the European Union's chief executive, Jean-Claude Juncker, told German reporters in August. Juncker was referring, in part, to an online poll conducted by the E.U., which found that changing clocks is tremendously unpopular. (As my colleague Rick Noack pointed out, however, there are methodological problems: "The largest share of participants came from one country -- Germany -- where the time switch has been a somewhat odd front-page topic for years. But any E.U. decision would also impact the 27 other member states.")

40 of 355 comments (clear)

  1. End it by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I can't believe I've had to endure forced jet lag twice a year my whole life, for no reason that anyone can coherently articulate.

    It would be nice if we can end it while I can still enjoy it, lol

    1. Re:End it by Rob+Lister · · Score: 5, Funny

      Based on 100 million people wasting 5 minutes changing clocks twice a year, and given an average life expectancy of 80 years, I estimate 23 lives are wasted.

      At least a few of those 23 are going to be children.

      Please, think of the children.

    2. Re: End it by schure · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The European thing should be nuanced: the union's mandate would end, but individual nations could still decide to continue changing to DST.

    3. Re:End it by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

      Based on 100 million people wasting 5 minutes changing clocks twice a year,

      People still change clocks? How...peculiar. The computers and phones take care of themselves, and those are the only clocks I use these days....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    4. Re:End it by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2

      Based on 100 million people wasting 5 minutes changing clocks twice a year,

      People still change clocks? How...peculiar. The computers and phones take care of themselves, and those are the only clocks I use these days....

      My computers, my phone, and my bedside clock all change automatically... however... the living room clock, the microwave clock, the oven clock, the clocks in the cars, the office clock, my watches... none of them change automatically. However, I've learnt it's easier to just remember those clocks are an hour fast for four months than it is to go around and change them.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    5. Re: End it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No! No nation should have a choice in this. It is stupid from any possible way to look at it. Just end it and let it die in the history books as one of humanity's most asinine, clueless attempts to changing our world around us. We are finally I the correct time. If the uneducated morons in FL want to keep the day shifted an hour then just simply start shit an hour later. Open stores at 9 instead of 8. Done. Dont be a bunch of dumbfuck nitwits and change your time because well you are dumb.

    6. Re: End it by Swistak · · Score: 2

      There is. There was a legislation n Poland that tried to end time saving time, and someone pointed out that EU requires all countries to be consistent. So it has to be all-or-nothing from what I know.

    7. Re: End it by mcvos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But there is: the sun. Originally, noon was the point where the sun was at its highest. Of course that meant each town had a slightly different time, so with long distance communication and travel (telegraph and train), time became standardised in time zones.

      Ideally, every country would be in the timezone closest to its natural time. In practice, of course many don't. Most of western Europe actually follows central European time, because Germany. But if they now decide to standardise on summer time rather than winter time, Madrid would end up in the eastern European timezone.

    8. Re:End it by nospam007 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Cars often still need their clocks changed manually. "

      Naw. Cars, just like ovens and microwaves show the wrong time for half a year, because nobody can remember how to change them and the manual is long gone.

    9. Re:End it by dcw3 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Thinning the herd isn't a negative side effect, it's natural selection.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    10. Re:End it by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 2

      You get jet lag when you cross to a different continent on the other side of the world. Not a single hour. Jeez, Grandpa.

      Yeah, who cares about science when you can have snark?

    11. Re:End it by rlitman · · Score: 5, Funny

      Still better than VCRs 12:00 12:00 12:00 12:00 12:00

    12. Re:End it by Ogive17 · · Score: 2

      Let's not end it, let's keep it all year. I enjoy more sun in the evening.

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    13. Re: End it by mcvos · · Score: 2

      Well, if we're gong to abandon the sun's role in this, I suggest getting rid of timezones altogether. Everybody just follow UTC. That's going to fix a lot of headaches.

      (And yes, I said "most of western Europe. Not the UK, Ireland or Portugal, but France, Netherland, Belgium and Spain follow central European time despite being geographically mostly or entirely in the western European timezone.

  2. The problem with the E.U. by trevc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "The largest share of participants came from one country -- Germany -- where the time switch has been a somewhat odd front-page topic for years. But any E.U. decision would also impact the 27 other member states.")

    1. Re:The problem with the E.U. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Two points:
      1. The online survey was open to everyone. Most participants came from Germany. (BTW I took part and I'm not German or living in Germany.)

      2. The EU will de-regulate DST. If an EU country wants to keep DST they'll be free to do so.

      I'd be happy to hear what's the problem with the EU regarding this.

    2. Re:The problem with the E.U. by Mjlner · · Score: 3, Informative

      "The largest share of participants came from one country -- Germany -- where the time switch has been a somewhat odd front-page topic for years. But any E.U. decision would also impact the 27 other member states.")

      So what if a majority comes from the largest country? Looking at the results by country reveals that abolishing the switch is the more popular choice in all but two countries: Greece and Cyprus. In the rest of the EU, the preference was to ditch the switch, mostly by overwheling majorities, up to 95%.

      --
      Lemon curry???
    3. Re:The problem with the E.U. by religionofpeas · · Score: 2

      Once they settle on the exact timezones, the choice may not be so popular. Spain, for instance, is already outside it's natural time zone. If Germany decides to shift one hour to the east, then Spain has the choice of going along, which would skew their daylight hours even more, or decide to switch to another timezone, which would reduce overlap in office hours, potentially hurting their trade.

    4. Re: The problem with the E.U. by houghi · · Score: 2

      The advantage would be to have the same rime ad Portugal.
      Office hours in Spain already are different. In Spain the work till 20:00 with a 3 hour luunchtime. In germany, many leve as early as 15:00 or 16:00. They start earlier.

      International companies already know how to schedule meetings around this.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  3. DST all year round for the win by sjbe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It seems screamingly obvious to me that most people would prefer a little extra daylight after work. That has the most utility to the most people. Make DST year round and be done with it. There is no reason that noon has to be the time of day when the sun is highest overhead. That's just tradition for the sake of useless tradition.

    1. Re:DST all year round for the win by religionofpeas · · Score: 2

      With that kind of reasoning, why not move the clock ahead by 2 or 3 hours ?

    2. Re:DST all year round for the win by SirMasterboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why change the clock? Why not just change business hours if it's going to be year round?

    3. Re:DST all year round for the win by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's easier to change the clock to determine everybody to adapt the new time than to make everybody change their schedule. Don't believe me, try to change your business schedule, then think about the effort to do that for all the business all sync at the same time... guess what they easiest and sane solution is to change the official hour.

    4. Re:DST all year round for the win by mcvos · · Score: 2

      If you want a bit more sun after work, you should just go to work a bit earlier.

      Making DST the standard time would mean that much of western Europe would end up using Eastern European Time. Currently France, Spain and the Benelux are using Central European Time, which is one hour off for them, but it's practical because of Germany. But if Germany does the crazy thing and actually moves to Eastern European Time, I think I'd prefer if we just stuck to Western European Time again. With the UK and Portugal, I guess. But using St Petersburg time in Paris is just stupid.

    5. Re:DST all year round for the win by rahvin112 · · Score: 2

      The clock and what defines "noon" is a made up construct that we then used to define a LOT of things. It's actually far easier to change the clock than it is to try to change all the stuff that's dependent on the clock.

      The biggest problem with trying to change business hours is that there will always be a group of people that refuse to participate and they blow up the whole change for everyone else.

    6. Re:DST all year round for the win by Viol8 · · Score: 2

      " It's actually far easier to change the clock than it is to try to change all the stuff that's dependent on the clock."

      No, it really isn't. Changing timetables or working hours or meetings times is done all the time. And whats the point of having clocks if they don't tell the actual (within reason) time? You might just as well have 10 hours labelled A -J with say G as noon. Makes as much sense as not having the clock saying noon at noon.

    7. Re:DST all year round for the win by religionofpeas · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No, it really isn't. Changing timetables or working hours or meetings times is done all the time.

      Many stores in my town have business hours printed on a piece of paper behind their window. It's much easier to change the clock, than it is to reprint all the signs. Also, various kinds of public transport still have paper timetables. Even if everything is electronic, changing the times would require an atomic update on the entire database, rather than an update on the global time offset.

    8. Re:DST all year round for the win by mark-t · · Score: 2

      It seems screamingly obvious to me that most people would prefer a little extra daylight after work. That has the most utility to the most people.

      Not if you measure utility in terms of health. For a period of about 10 weeks from the end of November until early February, sunrise north of about the 45th parallel (which for reference represents about 50 million Americans or so) doesn't happen until after 7:30AM, and actually as late as about 8:15AM. If daylight savings were implemented year 'round, then sunrise would happen in these areas between 8:30AM and 9:15AM. As the peak morning commute hour is around 8AM, this means that even in the depths of the winter months, if daylight savings were in effect, more people would be getting no direct exposure to sunlight in the morning, which ordinarily boosts the body's ability to make melatonin, improving sleep cycles, and provides numerous other health benefits.

      I can certainly appreciate the convenience of wanting an extra hour of daylight in the evenings after work or school, but the consequence of doing so during the winter months would certainly be accompanied by a dramatic increase in incidence of seasonal mood disorder and other health issues related to inadequate exposure to sunlight. I do not think this is worth it.

      Make no mistake, however.... I know that we should not be constantly changing our clocks twice every year, but I think we should stay on standard time, not daylight savings. In the summer, the sun already sets late enough the further north you go that an extra hour is not even necessarily really needed anyways, so there's that as well. A compromise might be to split the difference and instead only adjust the clocks by a half-hour one last time if we are to permanently abolish DST, although I think that this would still be pushing it.

      --
      File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
  4. Dangerous Time by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Statistically, two of the most dangerous times of year come the week after each of the time changes as people's body-clocks don't match up with the time of day. There are an increase in accidents and deaths during this time.

    I understand that there are concerns for children standing in the dark waiting for buses. Perhaps we need to make daylight savings time the standard time year round (or just make schools start an hour later and the suggested work day start an hour later).

    Let's stop the charade and just set time to a static time year round.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    1. Re:Dangerous Time by michelcolman · · Score: 2

      I understand that there are concerns for children standing in the dark waiting for buses. Perhaps we need to make daylight savings time the standard time year round (or just make schools start an hour later and the suggested work day start an hour later).

      You've got it the wrong way around. DST in winter would mean the sun would come up around 9:30. If you want school to start later, stick to winter time i.o. DST.

  5. News Flash by tsqr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Daylight Saving Time does not "confound the world". It does, however, provide endless fodder for those who wake up every day looking for something about which to be outraged.

  6. Ditch Standard Time by Discgolferusa · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Forget ditching DST, get rid of standard time. Who cares if i go to work in the dark, I want to come home to enjoy some sunlight! During standard time in the winter I not only get the joy of coming to work in the dark, but getting home in the dark as well, because it's sunset by the time I leave.

    I'd love to have an hour of daylight to get stuff done outside when i get home and not have to wait for the weekend!

    1. Re:Ditch Standard Time by ArchieBunker · · Score: 2

      Oh yeah nothing stopping me besides the company I work for...

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
  7. Good luck with that by sjbe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why change the clock? Why not just change business hours if it's going to be year round?

    Which do you think is easier? Mandating a clock change for everyone or convincing every business to simultaneously change their operating hours?

    I suggest the former is the only practical solution.

  8. Some traditions are easier to change by sjbe · · Score: 2

    Strictly speaking, our current work hours are tradition for the sake of useless tradition.

    Quite true but getting that to change will be nigh impossible in any sort of organized fashion. Much easier to just change the clock for everyone. Defining noon as the time of day when the sun is highest overhead is an equally arbitrary and useless tradition but FAR easier to change.

  9. Re:UTC by Ksevio · · Score: 2

    It would solve some problems but cause many others since time zones would still be needed. The post office might close at 5PM (for example), but now that's going to be 11PM or 2AM - that closing time would be based on time zones, so now everyone is using time zones, but there's not even an indicator where they are.

    Better solution is to just schedule things like calls using UTC

  10. Re:does it still serve a purpose in those areas? by mcvos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Winter time is actually the standard time. Summer time is the deviation from it. You're basically moving your country from its natural timezone to the timezone east of it. (Or, if you live in western Europe, from the timezone to the east to two timezones to the east.) So while summer time all year round sounds pleasant, it's not. Winter time all year round makes more sense.

  11. Re:does it still serve a purpose in those areas? by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2

    Indeed winter time is when noon means "Sun at highest peak".

    However, most people who want to eliminate time changes are asking for year-round DST. That's because DST is already more than 6 months of the year and business opening and closing is more based on DST than it is "winter time". Yes, that is effectively moving "a time zone to the East" but unfortunately businesses all start an hour earlier than they historically did. Who here starts work at "9am"? When did your office last start at 9am? 8am has become the standard- DST is probably to blame for that. We've already adjusted all our clocks to be "one time zone to the East," at least in the US, because of DST. It would be an easier transition to go to DST being the standard than it would be to go back to winter time.

    If we go back to Winter Time businesses won't start closing at 4 by standard, they will stay at 5 and people want that extra hour of sun in the evening. It's easier to change time zone than it is to change ingrained standard work-hours.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  12. Compromise by Zorro · · Score: 2

    OK, 30 Minutes of DST all year and be done with it!

  13. Re:UTC by Dan+East · · Score: 2

    This creates far, far more problems then is solves. Wherever you go, you have to determine the geographic time frame of reference. Morning is.... 1100 hours and nightfall is 2300 hours. Without time zones, who determines the frame of reference for that specific location? I open a business, and so I check the longitude and decide that for where I am, I should open at 0421 hours. Do I round that down? Am I in some region where we can all coordinate and agree on a time frame of reference? Let's call it a "time zone" and everyone in that zone can use the same frame of reference, rounded to the nearest hour, so we can all be on the same page. Oh, whoops, we're right back where we started, but even more convoluted.

    Finally, what does everyone using UTC have to do with daylight savings time anyway?

    --
    Better known as 318230.