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Switzerland Remains 'Extremely Attractive' For Pirate Sites, MPAA Says (torrentfreak.com)

While the European Union has worked hard to strengthen its copyright laws in recent years, one country in the heart of the continent chooses its own path. Switzerland is not part of the EU, which means that its policies deviate quite a bit from its neighbors. According to Hollywood, that's not helping creators. From a report: Responding to recent submission to the United States Trade Representative (USTR), the MPAA has identified several foreign "trade barriers" around the world. In Hollywood's case, many of these are related to piracy. One of the countries that's highlighted, in rather harsh terms, is Switzerland. According to the MPAA, the country's copyright law is "wholly inadequate" which, among other things, makes it "extremely attractive" to host illegal sites. "Switzerland's copyright law is wholly inadequate, lacking crucial mechanisms needed for enforcement in the digital era," MPAA writes. [...] The European country has plans to update its laws, but the proposed changes are not significant improvements, Hollywood's trade group notes.

64 of 135 comments (clear)

  1. So in other words... by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 4, Funny

    The allegation is that Swiss copyright laws are like their cheese?

    1. Re: So in other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Americans hate the MPAA just as much as others. But how are their laws lacking

    2. Re: So in other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Americans are cool, their government, not so much.

    3. Re: So in other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      MPAA wants others to do their job is all. ISP dont need to assist MPAA, go after the domains, servers, etc.,

    4. Re:So in other words... by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The allegation is that Switzerland hasn't bent over and lubed up for the MAFIAA like other countries have.

    5. Re:So in other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, not at all.
      The methods Hollywood uses to guarantee there are no profits are the same methods used by Switzerland to guarantee there are no copyrights.

    6. Re: So in other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Quite the paradox, ain't it? I mean, since the government is (re)elected by those "cool" Americans, that seems like a strange thing to say. If they were really "cool", I doubt they would have been so passive about this disaster in the last election.

    7. Re: So in other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Problem with USA happens to be the lobbiest controlling those that are elected. Its corruption at its finist, but made to be legal, just like the NCAA with their unpaid atheltic employees.

    8. Re: So in other words... by epyT-R · · Score: 1

      well when the choices are hillary and trump, what other outcome did you really expect?

    9. Re:So in other words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, we adhere to copyright law. We just do not want to criminalize the entire population of our country for minor stuff and the legal system / prisons are non-profit.

    10. Re:So in other words... by vlad30 · · Score: 1

      No, not at all. The methods Hollywood uses to guarantee there are no profits .

      If they want fair protection they should pay their fair share in taxes

      --
      Your'e all thinking it, I just said it for you
    11. Re: So in other words... by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      I'm starting to wondering if we did elect Putin.

      No, you elected the CIA.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  2. Good job by TimMD909 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Switzerland, if MPAA is your worst enemy, I'd have to say you're doing it right. Godspeed.

    1. Re:Good job by Spy+Handler · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Switzerland seems to be one of those rare oddball countries where the government actually works for the benefit of its citizens. Not the benefit of some other countries' citizens, or for the benefit of whoever gave out the most bribes to the politicians.

      Utterly shocking if you're from place with a corrupt government like the United States or the EU.

      Now before you liberals all go into rapture, note that the Swiss government will kick out illegal immigrants because they have determined (correctly) that having too many illegal immigrants does not benefit Swiss citizens.

    2. Re:Good job by lorinc · · Score: 2

      Yeah sure, Monaco and Lichtenstein are fine too.

    3. Re:Good job by Sique · · Score: 2
      As someone who crosses the austrian/swiss and german/swiss border quite regularly, I tell you it's easy. I didn't have any passport or ID card with me and crossed the border four times in a single day without being controlled. There are checkpoints at the roads, yes. But you can cross the border easily by just walking 100 m away from the checkpoints.

      Germany is officially enforcing border controls between Austria and Germany right now, but it's mainly checkpoints at the Autobahn. Especially around Salzburg, there are no border controls except at the Autobahn A1/A8 at Walserberg, which means that you can avoid the 10 min delay by leaving the Autobahn in Austria at Exit Wals, driving along the Bundesstraße 1/Bundesstraße 21 into Germany to Piding and then entering the Autobahn again at Exit Bad Reichenhall.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    4. Re:Good job by Bert64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly, copyright law was intended to benefit society as a whole by encouraging creation of works with the notion that after a while these works would fall into the public domain for the benefit of all.
      Copyright now has become so corrupted that the benefit to the people is lost, by the time anything reaches the public domain all those who were around when it was created will be dead. It's not surprising that people are not keen to support such a system.

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    5. Re:Good job by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Utterly shocking if you're from place with a corrupt government like the United States or the EU.

      Oh the EU? Which of the 28 countries specifically are you talking about? There are many fine examples within the EU of governments that work happily for citizens rather than the other way around. Yet calling them all "EU" just dilutes your claim.

      note that the Swiss government will kick out illegal immigrants

      You'll find that most countries kick out illegal immigrants including the US and pretty much every country in the EU. Though given your assertion that this seems to be somehow unique you may have simply exposed your own racism on the issue.

    6. Re:Good job by rapidmax · · Score: 1

      Exactly, copyright law was intended to benefit society as a whole by encouraging creation of works with the notion that after a while these works would fall into the public domain for the benefit of all.

      Exactly this is it. As a Swiss citizen I'll vote against any further extensions of author's rights.

    7. Re:Good job by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Surrounded by mountains yes, but those mountains are covered in roads and railway lines which are easily travelled. Plus there is very little in the way of actual border checkpoints, you can usually just drive across unchallenged. Switzerland is part of the shengen zone, where borders controls are only really enforced at the periphery of the zone.

      When it comes to difficult borders in europe, you'd have to hand it to the UK which is surrounded by water and is not part of shengen. If you've already managed to enter the shengen zone then crossing to switzerland is trivial, yet entering the UK is not... Despite this, many people still try to illegally cross the border into the UK and will employ various measures to avoid detection, often hiding in the back of goods vehicles.

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    8. Re:Good job by samkass · · Score: 1

      From neighboring countries, it's trivial to drive into Switzerland, hike into Switzerland, take the train into Switzerland, fly, etc. I've lived here two years and never had my papers checked at the border when traveling within Europe, whether by foot, car, train, or plane. (Yes, you read that right, they generally don't check ID at airports.) The problem is, once you're here, you need to register to do virtually anything, from buying a cell phone to getting medical care to getting an apartment or job. Everyone here is registered in the canton or gemeinde ("commune" on a town level) where they live, and you need that card for almost anything official.

      Also, legal immigrants comprise over 25% of the country's population, so it's not like immigration is uncommon. It's getting a little harder to get a visa these days if you're not an EU person, but if you are, it's still in the "shengen" system so it's easy. And if you're an asylum seeker, you get distributed to the cantons and gemeindes who are responsible for housing you while your case is processed. But to progress visas from an L to a B to a C to a citizen requires increasing levels of integration, establishing local ties, and demonstrating Swiss knowledge and culture. So even with the large number of foreign-born people, everything still feels "Swiss," at least to an auslander like me.

      Now, I'm not sure what any of this has to do with Copyright, so please go ahead and rightly mark this "Off-Topic" (but maybe also Informative?), but I thought you might be interested in the point of view of an expat living in Switzerland.

      (As to Copyright, everyone I know generally follows the rule of thumb that you generally want to buy stuff if it's available for sale to support the creators, but if they region lock it or otherwise restrict it or delay it, downloading Copyrighted stuff is not illegal here as long as you don't distribute it yourself. To wit, even though downloading Copyrighted stuff is not a crime here, Netflix is still reasonably popular.)

      --
      E pluribus unum
  3. Clearly we must invade by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 3, Funny

    >> one country in the heart of the continent chooses its own path. Switzerland is not part of the EU, which means that its policies deviate quite a bit from its neighbors. According to Hollywood, that's not helping creators.

    Clearly we must invade. If only we could find someone with skill in mass media to develop a propaganda campaign.

    1. Re:Clearly we must invade by youngone · · Score: 5, Insightful

      According to Hollywood, that's not helping creators.

      Since when were copyright laws about helping creators?

    2. Re:Clearly we must invade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Originally they were. And they stayed that way up until approximately the 1980s, and the arrival of the internet.

      Actually, no. As various people correctly pointed out on e.g. torrentfreak, copyright originally was created for the benefit of the greater public. That creators benefited was just a means to an end.

      These days it's still just a means to an end, but the big publisher cartels have won instead. And to them, indeed, it's all about control, control, control. Control of the means, control of the creators, and control of the public. If there was ever a goose with golden eggs enshrined in law, it's what the publishers and other middlemen made out of copyright law.

      This really didn't start with "the internet" either. Go look at their reaction to the pianola, for one.

    3. Re:Clearly we must invade by Meneth · · Score: 1

      American copyright law, perhaps, but the first iteration in Britain was all about censorship. By giving the "right to copy" to only crown-licensed publishers, the government attempted to prevent the spread of criticizing ideas.

  4. Gibraltar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    I guarantee Gibraltar is orders of magnitude more liberal with copyright. It’s a total free for all on everything and the government is happy to just play a long. The northern part of Cyprus too is a lawless area with a lot of pirate TV stuff.

    1. Re:Gibraltar by Gavagai80 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's a huge difference between a lawless place, and a place with laws that are liberal with copyright. Switzerland is not the slightest bit lawless.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
  5. It's legal to download by rgbe · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's Switzerland (at least when I was last there) it's legal to download copyrighted material as long as you're not uploading it and you're using it for private purposes.

    1. Re:It's legal to download by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Which is interesting, given that so many International standards are hosted by organizations based in Switzerland, and demand you pay for each copy of the standard you need...

    2. Re:It's legal to download by MrMr · · Score: 1

      That used to be the norm in the EU as well. Fortunately the EU-directives since the early nineties have fixed that. Currently there are no relevant rights of use left.

    3. Re:It's legal to download by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      Currently there are no relevant rights of use left.

      Yet here in the Netherlands and several other EU countries we are still paying for them. That's right, there's a tax on every blank CD, MP3 player, cell phone and hard disk sold, to compensate the music and film industry for what has been dubbed "home copying" of copyrighted material.

      The tax was introduced to compensate the industry for downloading of copyrighted material, which was legal or at least condoned at the time. When downloading was made illegal, the tax was lowered a little but remained in place. Ostensibly to compensate the music industry for time or format shifting of legally owned media (hence the name "home copy")... but that has always been a right, and the industry has never had the right to collect a tax for that: making a copy of media you already own does not constitute a lost sale (as several judges have confirmed).

      Interestingly, it was the EU Court who ruled that the "home copy" levy - as compensation for illegal downloads - was in itself illegal. And since the government was no longer allowed to compensate the industry, downloading of copyrighted material promptly was made illegal by law and the levy was to be repealed. In the past, every proposal to make downloading illegal was accompanied by one to repeal the levy at the same time, yet due to a lobbying effort that reached bizarre levels on intensity, the levy remained. You'd think if the industry was being compensated for home copies, there should also be a law that guarantees my right to make such a copy, but you'd be wrong. And thanks to DRM I sometimes cannot even use original media that I own legally (thanks, HDCP)

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    4. Re:It's legal to download by bsolar · · Score: 1

      Note that the “private purpose” protection in Switzerland does not apply to software though.

  6. Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Switzerland hasn't implemented the draconian copyright laws that we suckered the US and Canada into by painting them as the biggest sources of piracy, so we're going to paint Swiss people with the same brush.

    1. Re: Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They talk about this a lot. The Swiss probably favor a piecemeal approach. Surprised Hollywood is complaining and not the software industry.

    2. Re: Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Canada?

      Canada has very liberal piracy laws. You can do anything so long as it's not making profit.

  7. One word: Waaaaa. by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Even as a copyright holder myself, I recognize that copyright law in the United States is completely and utterly broken. Only in the United States could it make sense to have:

    • Standards bodies that create policies like "You can't show this content unless your equipment supports [insert random copy protection standard here]".
    • Copy protection that gets repeatedly rendered useless within months after it hits store shelves.
    • Buggy implementations that break when you connect certain pieces of equipment together (e.g. Mac Mini w/ Denon or Yamaha receivers).
    • Laws that make it illegal to crack those copy protection standards to make your equipment actually work the way it is supposed to work.
    • Consumers still willingly paying several dollars extra on every single device for the privilege of their equipment not working right and being rendered worthless two years later when the standards body decides that they have to come up with yet another copy protection standard.

    And if those media execs still think that HDCP is a good idea even after crazy mounds of evidence to the contrary, there's no way they'll *ever* be smart enough to realize just how stupid it is to waste time chasing after pirate sites. Stopping profit loss from piracy by going after pirate sites is the technological equivalent of trying to end world hunger by hiring fifty people to fly around the world, and, upon seeing a locust, land the plane, put on boots, and stomp it to death. You will never win that way. You will only look silly.

    If the huge drop in piracy after the rise of the iTunes Music Store taught us anything, it is that piracy is not caused predominantly by people being unwilling to spend money, but rather predominantly by content owners refusing to take it, and doing everything in their power to maintain tight control in ways that consumers can't deal with. If you create content that people want and make it available in a form that people are willing to pay for, they will do so. If you don't, they'll pirate it. And no new laws will ever change that, no matter how draconian. At best, you'll just force it further underground, where you can't track it or earn ad revenue from it.

    The cause of piracy problems isn't Switzerland, but rather the content distributors' unwillingness to work together to improve access to content, coupled with their irrational fear of allowing any single outlet to gain enough power to drive prices down to levels that consumers find reasonable. They need to quit looking for countries to blame and start looking in the mirror.

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    1. Re: One word: Waaaaa. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      At least you live in a country where they probably wont sever your right hand for stealing copyrights

    2. Re:One word: Waaaaa. by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 2

      Exactly. These idiots don't understand the 3 types of consumers:

      1. Buy it,
      2. Pirate it,
      3. Ignore it.

      If content isn't legally available I just ignore it. Yeah, as kids we used to pirate the fuck out of everything. As adults we support the content producers like so they can continue to produce more.

      While I don't agree with it, I can understand why some pirate. Of course these aren't mutually l exclusive and there ARE exceptions. If you bought it AND you pirate then is it really piracy??? No.

      This just proves that piracy is a **business opportunity and free marketing.**

      But god forbid these idiots don't provide a legal way to buy old movies, TV shows, music, games, etc. legally and then they wonder why people pirate.

      Make ALL the content available for purchases dumbasses and we'll buy more if it.

      It's kind of fuckin hard to buy it when it isn't legally available for sale! Go figure!!

    3. Re:One word: Waaaaa. by tepples · · Score: 2

      If content isn't legally available I just ignore it.

      If you ignore it, then years later you create something that's too similar, you run the risk of it still being considered accidental infringement.

    4. Re:One word: Waaaaa. by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 2

      Interesting.

      Would you referring to example of where Fogerty was sued for copying his own sound?

      * https://mentalfloss.com/articl...

    5. Re:One word: Waaaaa. by jonwil · · Score: 1

      I have no problems paying for content when the content I want is available at a reasonable price, will play on the playback devices I have and doesn't require me to go out of my way to acquire it.

      I regularly go to the cinema to see movies and I am more than willing to pay for that (saw Bohemian Rhapsody the other day in fact and planning to see the new Fantastic Beasts when it opens on Thursday and even went out of my way to go see The Lion King as part of a Disney Classics thing even though I already own it on DVD). And I will buy DVDs for my DVD collection (added Ready Player One to the collection recently along with the Oscar-winning Japanese film Spirited Away but I have an extensive collection). And I watch a lot of content (old and new) on free-to-air TV.

      But when content is unavailable to buy from the retailers I have access to (e.g. the cult classic cyberpunk film Johnny Mnemonic which I still can't find on DVD except as a second hand import item that may not work on my DVD player due to region locks), isn't being shown at cinemas I have easy access to (as was the case with a recent theatrical screening of 2001 A Space Odyssey that was only playing in theaters I couldn't get to) or isn't being aired on local TV (e.g. the local TV network that has exclusive rights to Madam Secretary is many episodes behind the US airings) the incentive to pirate that content goes up dramatically.

      And no, none of the content I want is available via the streaming services that I could purchase.

    6. Re:One word: Waaaaa. by tepples · · Score: 1

      That and Bright Tunes Music v. Harrisongs Music, the "My Sweet Lord" case.

    7. Re:One word: Waaaaa. by AsylumWraith · · Score: 1

      And no, none of the content I want is available via the streaming services that I could purchase.

      You're not looking hard enough then. I found all three available for rent/purchase on Vudu in under 3 minutes:

      https://www.vudu.com/content/m...
      https://www.vudu.com/content/m...
      https://www.vudu.com/content/m...

      Not sure why you'd want to watch Johnny Mnemonic though; the short story is so much better, and can be finished in under 20 minutes.

    8. Re:One word: Waaaaa. by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Except that Vudu is unavailable here in Australia.

  8. They would say this even if its not. by wolfheart111 · · Score: 1

    Its in their best interest.

    --
    [($)]
  9. Sovereign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A sovereign nation with borders doing what it wants.

    Outstanding.

  10. Screw the MPAA by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    And not in a good way.

  11. one good thing from trump by bloodhawk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The one good thing to come from Trump. His harpooning of the various trade agreements which the MPAA had corrupted to their benefit are being systematically dismantled around the world, even the TPP which he pulled out of is now a much better agreement as with the US gone so too went all the insane copyright shit they were trying to force the rest of the world to swallow.

    1. Re:one good thing from trump by dryeo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Unluckily he just put the copyright shit in NAFTA2, and he is planning lots more of the same as he isolates countries and pushes new trade deals.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  12. If you don't want to subject yourself to foreign c by reanjr · · Score: 1

    ...stop exporting your copyrighted works if you're gonna bitch about foreign laws.

  13. I can't be arsed to pirate things anymore by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    I can stream for a decent price, and I have so much content that if somebody doesn't want me seeing their stuff I'll just move onto something else.

    I do kinda miss eMusic. When it was cheap I could pull 7 albums for $20/mo. I probably only liked 1 enough to listen to more than once, but I didn't mind paying $140/yr for 12 good albums. But I needed to be able to pull 84 and sift though them. Some of my favorite stuff I didn't like much at first and then it grew on my. Ensiferum was like that. In Flames too.

    --
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  14. Re:Good job... Real democracy by Fallen+Kell · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Switzerland seems to be one of those rare oddball countries where the government actually works for the benefit of its citizens. Not the benefit of some other countries' citizens, or for the benefit of whoever gave out the most bribes to the politicians.

    Utterly shocking if you're from place with a corrupt government like the United States or the EU.

    That is because Switzerland is a "direct democracy". You see, the people actually vote on things. All it takes is 50,000 citizens (or 8 of the elected politicians) to call for any recently enacted or changed laws to require a direct vote by the citizens (a simple majority yes/no vote). It makes it kind of hard for special interest groups with big pockets to get to all but 50,000 people in the country to prevent a direct vote.

    --
    We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
  15. Torrents? Re:It's legal to download by Camembert · · Score: 1

    The legal subtlety may be that when torrenting, you don’t only download, you also upload.
    How is this handled in Switzerland?

  16. Re:Hollywood is not a creator by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

    Ghostbusters.

  17. The EU hates Switzerland too by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

    While Hollywood wants the whole world to obey whatever IP regime benefits the studios most, the EU wants all other countries to "harmonize" with the Union's high tax rates. Switzerland manages industrial prosperity on much lower tax rates, and governs mostly at the cantonal (county) level, which reduces centralized bureaucracy. Brussels has never liked having a safe, stable-for-centuries adjacent country that Europeans can just take a train to and make a suitcase of money disappear.

    Switzerland prides itself on an engrained neutrality that allows it to trade freely with every part of the world while avoiding the entangling alliances that have caused so many European wars. This also means staying out of international trade agreements that it feels threaten its freedom. That's why it could be the first organizer of international copyright a century ago with the Berne Convention, while at the same time staying out of the Hollywood cartel.

  18. Re:Good job... Real democracy by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    On the other hand in 2009 they voted to include alternative medicine (i.e. pseudo-scientific snake oil) in the constitution. Maybe someone from Switzerland can say how much effect it has had; AIUI it was effectively nullified by the fact that politicians didn't change the rules on funding treatments to remove the "proven effective" requirement.

    Direct democracy can be great, but can also result in nonsense, so it's important to have strong checks and balances. Problem is that people get very upset if they vote for something a a check or balance frustrates it, e.g. Brexit.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  19. MPAA has the ability to retalitate by houghi · · Score: 2

    All they need to do is ask all their members to close their Swiss bank accounts they use for their Hollywood Accounting. That will show that they are actually seriosus about it.

    Why would they do business with a country that does not respect them?

    Another thing they can do out of protest is ask their members to go on the streets and smash their swiss watches. (I'm helping them, right?)

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  20. Re:Good job... Real democracy by bsolar · · Score: 2

    The 5 forms of alternative medicine voted in 2009 were included in the basic healthcare coverage for a trial period, pending evaluation of their effectiveness. I think homeopathy got included in the basic coverage due to the “placebo effect” actually having some value, with the majority of medics prescribing it knowing it’s basically fresh water but still obtaining good results. About the others I have no idea.

    Furthermore, that inclusion concerns the basic coverage mandated by law: most people actually interested in alternative medicine treatments are likely to supplement the basic coverage with complementary insurance options anyway.

  21. Re:Good job... Real democracy by bsolar · · Score: 1

    It’s actually a good thing IMHO: it trains voters to actually try to understand the consequences of their vote or pay the price for their own shortsightedness. It also in part removes from the equation the usual excuse “politicians did that!”.

  22. Poor things... by WillyWanker · · Score: 1

    Multi-billion dollar industry whines it's not making enough. Film at 11.

  23. Re:Good job... Real democracy by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    It also makes it easy for extremists to get their point across as the complete set of legislation that affects people is so large and complex that no reasonable person can understand all the issues. This is the primary reasons representative democracies exist.

    Direct democracies like all systems have benefits and downsides.

  24. The MPAA has never helped "creators" by gweihir · · Score: 1

    The only thing they care about is distributors. Well, guess what, the Swiss government asked some actual scientists for an analysis whether "piracy" harms creators and it found a small positive effect instead. As a result, downloading for private use is legally tolerated.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  25. Gibraltar isn't a country by andersh · · Score: 2

    Yes, but Gibraltar is not a country. It's just a British enclave in Spain. It has it's own gov't and laws, but it's still not a country.

  26. As a Swiss national... by diethelm · · Score: 1

    ... I have waited a long time to post something like this.

    Up yours, US of A.