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Waymo To Start First Driverless Car Service Next Month (bloomberg.com)
Alphabet's self-driving car company Waymo is planning to launch the world's first commercial driverless car service in early December. According to Bloomberg, citing a person familiar with the plans, the service "will operate under a new brand and compete directly with Uber and Lyft." From the report: Waymo is keeping the new name a closely guarded secret until the formal announcement. It's a big milestone for self-driving cars, but it won't exactly be a "flip-the-switch" moment. Waymo isn't planning a splashy media event, and the service won't be appearing in an app store anytime soon. Instead, things will start small -- perhaps dozens or hundreds of authorized riders in the suburbs around Phoenix, covering about 100 square miles.
The first wave of customers will likely draw from Waymo's Early Rider Program -- a test group of 400 volunteer families who have been riding Waymos for more than a year. The customers who move to the new service will be released from their non-disclosure agreements, which means they'll be free to talk about it, snap selfies, and take friends or even members of the media along for rides. New customers in the Phoenix area will be gradually phased in as Waymo adds more vehicles to its fleet to ensure a balance of supply and demand. The report notes that some backup drivers will be placed in the cars when the service launches, and the cars themselves will be heavily modified Chrysler Pacifica minivans.
The first wave of customers will likely draw from Waymo's Early Rider Program -- a test group of 400 volunteer families who have been riding Waymos for more than a year. The customers who move to the new service will be released from their non-disclosure agreements, which means they'll be free to talk about it, snap selfies, and take friends or even members of the media along for rides. New customers in the Phoenix area will be gradually phased in as Waymo adds more vehicles to its fleet to ensure a balance of supply and demand. The report notes that some backup drivers will be placed in the cars when the service launches, and the cars themselves will be heavily modified Chrysler Pacifica minivans.
will the CEO volunteer to go jail / prison if the car kills someone or will the rider sign an EULA that makes them take ALL liability?
Finally! Driverless autonomous cars are here!!!
"The report notes that some backup drivers will be placed in the cars when the service launches"
Oh.
The report notes that some backup drivers will be placed in the cars when the service launches, and the cars themselves will be heavily modified Chrysler Pacifica minivans.
Hey, Rafaela Vasquez. Do you need a job?
I have it on good authority from random posters on /. that self driving cars are 20 years away and that taxi cab and Uber drivers have nothing to worry about.
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> will the rider sign an EULA that makes them take ALL liability?
Such a contract likely isn't valid and will be thrown out of a court. Some start laws may specifically have laws that invalidate those terms.
Are we all really going to start saying "Alphabet" with a straight face?
Do you people call Blackwater by their new name too?
at least there's that :)
[($)]
I wonder which is more likely?
Uber did that in Pittsburgh like two years ago. If you call an Uber from the east end of the city, some random odds gave you a driverless one with an employee riding along with an emergency brake, more or less.
Any idea if the Google one is sans-brake-employee? :)
I'm constantly confused about the progress of self-driving cars. They're happening right now and they're decades away, to summarize. Obviously, this is proprietary information, but if I'm not part of some hand-selected group in Phoenix, AZ, when the heck can I expect to ride in a self-directed car?
The cars will kill someone. It's not a matter of if, but when. The hope is that they won't make horrible mistakes like Uber's car did (in addition to killing someone).
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Crashr!
This is the fundamental issue with self driving cars: if a person runs someone over and kills them their life is ruined, they are in prison or in so much debt they'll never afford a car again, let alone be allowed to drive. If a megacorp owned by another megacorp as a shell company kills someone the survivors have to sue a megacorp, which they have no chance of winning against (nevermind getting a fair settlement: e.g. every board member, executive, and programmer involved going to jail for manslaughter and getting total ownership over everything possessed by the shell company, the parent company, the board members, executives, and programmers involved.) When a person kills someone they are removed from society, it should be no different for a corporation or the people running that corporation.
the shell company game will not fly in an criminal case. But may take something like an school bus full of kids in bad crash to get to that court.
traffic tickets red light camera vs an moving with an live cop are very differnt.
also photo radar tickets can fall at times into both areas.
Tickets like red light camera / some photo radar. They are administrative violations, similar to a parking ticket.
But moving violations like live cop red light and some Photo radar tickets count as moving violations where the driver gets points and they must prove who the driver is.
My understanding was that the Uber incident was a Tchernobyl type of event where security features were left turned off/overridden intentionally.
Has that changed in the meantime?
It won't be a megacorp owned by a megacorp. Every car will be it's own LLC, with the car 100% financed. No assets for a lawsuit to take.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Yup. That's the inherent flaw behind our current corporate/capitalist structure. The corporations have all of the right of individuals, and none of the liabilities. Corporations can't go bankrupt, and corporations can't go to jail. Individuals go bankrupt and go to jail every day, That's why the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer in the US (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/wealth-inequality-in-the-us-is-almost-as-bad-as-it-was-right-before-the-great-depression-2018-07-19). The US is really only a comfortable place if you're wealthy. It's increasingly a uncomfortable place to live as a poor or even a middle-class person. That's a large reason why the Great Orange Asshole happened.
I don't respond to AC's.
will the CEO volunteer to go jail / prison if the car kills someone or will the rider sign an EULA that makes them take ALL liability?
Do you think this is the first time industrial robots, faulty medical equipment or otherwise defective products has killed someone? The answer is neither and you're the poster boy for a false dichotomy.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
You'll have to ask Uber. Last I heard they started testing again so maybe they think they are doing better.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
This is the fundamental issue with self driving cars: if a person runs someone over and kills them their life is ruined, they are in prison or in so much debt they'll never afford a car again, let alone be allowed to drive.
When a person kills someone they are removed from society.
Oh, yeah, like the "affluenza" dirtbag in Texas who was driving drunk, killed 4 people, and only received probation?
Do yourself a favor and read up more about vehicular manslaughter. It's not an automatic prison sentence as you seem to believe.
The difference in those examples is that the automation was an improvement on the human. A self driving car OTOH is still extremely limited in scope and ability compared to a human driver and despite all the usual silicon valley techno-utopia hype and BS, exists simply to save on the cost of drivers wages. So if you cut costs expect to suffer the consequences if something goes wrong.
JFC don't ever let these people handle First Contact... it would be diffused so utterly perfectly and at a rate optimally matched to drag humanities prevailing thought processes towards enlightenment that we wouldn't even notice unless we were Selected Advance Event Awareness Partners and where is the fun in THAT? Shocks that cause scisms and turbulent flows that whirl everything in the chaos that results are fun and necessary :D
my vote: Luuffa
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Until and unless Rearden Metal is proven 100% safe, it cannot be used.
I suspect this will end up being more along the lines of, 'Car service with human drivers will pick people up in cars that have driverless features, currently not in use.'. It's just more hype, folks, and this will long be a pipe dream. I predict Google (I still refuse to acknowlegde the anti-trust avoidance scheme known as 'Alphabet') will abandon this altogether in a couple of years.
No, and they shouldn't. If driverless cars cause only 10% of the accidents then there is a net 90% of lives saved and you want to put the behind bars for saving people from 90% of wrecks? Let's just focus on decreasing the number as much as possible. We don't expect perfect performance from machines in any other sector. We should be satisfied that they are better than any other alternative. If we don't cut 90% of accidents because we are waiting for 100% perfection that this is unethical. We're wasting human lives and causing undue hardships on familiesl
The difference in those examples is that the automation was an improvement on the human. A self driving car OTOH is still extremely limited in scope and ability compared to a human driver
And yet, it still might do a better job — not only in spite of those limitations, but also because of them. The car isn't thinking about its mortgage, or sally in accounting. It's just handling driving.
and despite all the usual silicon valley techno-utopia hype and BS, exists simply to save on the cost of drivers wages.
Welcome to capitalism, where essentially everything is done for money.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Will you volunteer to go to jail if your car kills someone?
Amusement part rides are effectively self driving vehicle you get into. If one of them fails you could die, or it might fall on the general public milling around the ride.
The park operators try to evade responsibility at four levels
1. Posted warnings
2. Submission to inspections by regulators
3. Good faith in adhering to regulations and documenting timely repairs as needed.
4. limited liability companies as a stop-loss from reachback in law suits
I'd assume waymo is going to do all that, plus probably obtain favorable legislation.
If they are smart then they should adopt the practices of boeing. That company has a fairly solid reputation for being aggressively interested in why their plane crashed so they can make the next one better. In practice that means that they encourage investigators not to be seeking the answer to "Why boeing isn't at fault" but "planes are ridiculously dangers contractions, let's learn from this to make flying safer each time we fail". The result has been, that flying is now very safe, and boeing is not too scared of saying they might have done something imperfectly that enabled the crash.
Just look at the Lion air investigation. Already there's no denying that a "safety" upgrade may also have triggered some unanticipated consequences. This is how things get safer. I hope the settlements for lawsuits stay bounded so we can have more of this
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
will the CEO volunteer to go jail / prison if the car kills someone
Why would they? More importantly why would you think the CEO ultimately ends up having any liability when there's a death of someone, and EULAs are completely irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make.
If it came from Uber then it can't be trusted. If it came from some basement dweller on the net then it can't be trusted.
Uber put out a FAKE video where they made the image much darker than reality. Also they said the car just couldn't see the pedestrian in a lame attempt to avoid responsibility. ANY claim by Uber has no merit. Any claim by you has no merit. This is the first time I have heard anyone say what you have said and I believe it to be a lie. In fact AFTER Uber tried to avoid responsibility, they admitted the driver was not paying attention. You may be trying to twist that into fooling people into thinking the car's systems were off when in fact it was just that the human attendant was not paying enough attention to thwart a major automated system malfunction.
Show where you got this "understanding" you have insinuated into the conversation.
It MIGHT do a better job? That's the best you can come up with. Snow. Rain. Human behavior. Sandbags by the side of the road. Ladies walking their bikes across a well lit street. Automated driver systems can't handle these situations. If you aren't on drugs then please seek professional help to deal with whatever cause for your extreme break with reality indicated by your absurd statement. It won't do better. It will be another Potemkin sham using cherry picked situations to generate data that is false on the face because it compares sunny, bird chirping driving on selected limited routes to human driving under all situations and locations.
And there will be shills on the net defending it.
There are easier ways to save lives lost to auto accidents, and they don't require a fictional technology to implement, they are available right now!
- zero tolerance for driving under the influence
- zero tolerance for mobile device use by anyone in a car
- strict enforcement of speed limits and driving regulations
- required driving test with license renewal
We don't do these things because no one really cares about saving the lives of strangers, and the economy would likely grind to a halt if we implemented the above police state.
See how STUPID "ZIP" (Zach I. Patterson) CHIMP is (taking credit for what I solved before him) https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... (he needs to LEARN TO READ)!
I even SHOW ways to do it YOURSELF https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... (he couldn't).
Delphi/FreePascal/ObjectPascal HAS no issue w/ null-term'd string bufferoverflows - C does, C++ can UNLESS you do what I said 1st loser.
Tell us about CODE SIGNING (which has been STOLEN & ABUSED) https://www.helpnetsecurity.co... MY METHOD CAN'T BE (upmodded +2 INTERESTING in CODING FOR DEFCON no less) https://it.slashdot.org/commen...
"I'm a much better programmer than APK" - by Anonymous Coward ZIP on Monday October 08, 2018 @11:27PM (#57449082) FROM https://yro.slashdot.org/comme... yet nothing to show in programs. I can from registered /.ers liking/using/praising my work (& 100k users worldwide too). He can't.
LIAR ZIP says he has no account "I don't have an account, so I don't have mod points" https://news.slashdot.org/comm...
Yet LIAR ZIP says he downmods my posts (IMPOSSIBLE MINUS AN ACCOUNT on /.): "I down-modded a few of your post on other threads" - by Anonymous Coward "ZIP" on Thursday October 11, 2018 @11:31AM (#57461058) FROM https://yro.slashdot.org/comme...
APK
P.S.=> KEEP PLAYING PUSSY GAMES IMPERSONATING ME YOU CHIMP - this comes out every time, lol!... apk
c6gunner CAUGHT impersonating me (his name's the submitter signing "APK") https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & you ALTERED /.ers PRAISE of my work (not yours you don't even HAVE).
* ALL because he tried to INSULT me 2 posts parent prior to it & in the one before it I merely asked to PROVE he did better - he cannot (don't throw stones if you live in a GLASS HOUSE chump & RESPECT YOUR BETTERS (me)).
APK
P.S.=> KEEP PLAYING PUSSY GAMES IMPERSONATING ME YOU CHIMP - this comes out every time, lol!... apk
See how STUPID "ZIP" (Zach I. Patterson) CHIMP is (taking credit for what I solved before him) https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... (he needs to LEARN TO READ)!
I even SHOW ways to do it YOURSELF https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... (he couldn't).
Delphi/FreePascal/ObjectPascal HAS no issue w/ null-term'd string bufferoverflows - C does, C++ can UNLESS you do what I said 1st loser.
Tell us about CODE SIGNING (which has been STOLEN & ABUSED) https://www.helpnetsecurity.co... MY METHOD CAN'T BE (upmodded +2 INTERESTING in CODING FOR DEFCON no less) https://it.slashdot.org/commen...
"I'm a much better programmer than APK" - by Anonymous Coward ZIP on Monday October 08, 2018 @11:27PM (#57449082) FROM https://yro.slashdot.org/comme... yet nothing to show in programs. I can from registered /.ers liking/using/praising my work (& 100k users worldwide too). He can't.
LIAR ZIP says he has no account "I don't have an account, so I don't have mod points" https://news.slashdot.org/comm...
Yet LIAR ZIP says he downmods my posts (IMPOSSIBLE MINUS AN ACCOUNT on /.): "I down-modded a few of your post on other threads" - by Anonymous Coward "ZIP" on Thursday October 11, 2018 @11:31AM (#57461058) FROM https://yro.slashdot.org/comme...
APK
P.S.=> KEEP PLAYING PUSSY GAMES IMPERSONATING ME YOU CHIMP - this comes out every time, lol!... apk
c6gunner CAUGHT impersonating me (his name's the submitter signing "APK") https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & you ALTERED /.ers PRAISE of my work (not yours you don't even HAVE).
* ALL because he tried to INSULT me 2 posts parent prior to it & in the one before it I merely asked to PROVE he did better - he cannot (don't throw stones if you live in a GLASS HOUSE chump & RESPECT YOUR BETTERS (me)).
APK
P.S.=> KEEP PLAYING PUSSY GAMES IMPERSONATING ME YOU CHIMP - this comes out every time, lol!... apk
Can't wait to hear Waymo's excuses about how their cars didn't see that man in that particular shade of purple with the sharply cast shadow with the sun 30 degrees left relative of the vehicle. Then there will be another, and another.. Eventually they will come to tems with how many driving situations there really are in the world.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
It MIGHT do a better job? That's the best you can come up with.
Yep. Welcome to reality.
Snow. Rain. Human behavior. Sandbags by the side of the road. Ladies walking their bikes across a well lit street. Automated driver systems can't handle these situations.
Nor can humans. Those situations trip up humans all the time.
It won't do better.
It will do better than the dick I was behind today who was brushing his teeth on the 1 while driving over the wooden bridge in Albion, or the superannuated dildo behind him who couldn't keep his lane (who thankfully did get out of the way for me.)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
We already strictly enforce all of those things for provisional drivers, at least in my country. Doing anything on your list will get you suspended, and you must prove your ability to get a less-restricted licence. And they still kill themselves (and others) on the roads more than any other demographic, doing exactly these things.
Sure, they're still relatively new to driving. If they survive, they may learn to avoid those dangerous practices, and develop better reflexes. But every new driver has to learn all this from scratch, while autonomous cars already know - every car fresh off the line inherits all the lessons learned from the many millions of miles driven by its predecessors. And every lesson learned afterwards, anywhere, is incorporated and sent OTA to all those predecessors as well, so the entire fleet improves together.
The best autonomous cars are already safer than the average human in most common situations - certainly they're more reliable. And every year they will improve, all of them. You may be surprised how little time it takes before they exceed human ability in most uncommon situations too.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
every car fresh off the line inherits all the lessons learned from the many millions of miles driven by its predecessors
This is an utterly loony fantasy. That software architecture doesn't exist, and no one is working on it. And no one is building that kind of adaptive system that can also handle configuration changes in the hardware, these vehicles are being designed around stock models that have to be maintained on a daily basis.
But keep believing in magic if you want to.
Citation? Wave it off if you like, but Tesla is delivering regular Autopilot upgrades (now up to version 9) to its whole range, new cars and old, despite the hardware differences. These updates are based on the extensive telemetry from their customers' cars in the field. Waymo is doing the same for their Chrysler minivans and Jaguar i-Paces, based not only on their real-world testing but vastly more miles in the simulator - regularly rolling out new & improved versions to their fleet. And they said years ago they could offer their driving system for any car manufacturer.
No vendor has to start all that again from scratch for each new model. The hardware differences are much less significant than you appear to think. Data from whatever sensors are available are all fused into a best-available model of the environment, and all the driving logic is entirely independent of details like the brand or positioning of the lidar etc.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
"Nor can humans. Those situations trip up humans all the time."
Speak for yourself. Those situations trip a small minority of humans which could easily be rectified with harder driving tests, but they trip ALL current self driving systems.
Those situations trip a small minority of humans which could easily be rectified with harder driving tests, but they trip ALL current self driving systems.
I've literally watched all of those things confuse human drivers. I'm speaking from experience.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Wow, that must be some AMAZING SIMULATOR TECHNOLOGY that no one has seen or heard about. I mean if I ran a technology company that had developed some technology that had mega-bandwidth capacity for cameras, lidar, sensors, etc, and could be run off of cheap commodity hardware, there would be NO REASON to pursue fully autonomous vehicle technology, the licensing fees for such a technology would far surpass the potential value of some rinky-dink applications that could drive a car.
The same hardware independence you think is "magic" makes simulation easy, and lets them test and learn from countless scenarios before they're ever encountered in reality. Read and learn.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
seriously, it's not a problem.
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