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Bitcoin Plummets Under $6,000 To a New Low For the Year (cnbc.com)
Bitcoin's moment of relative stability ended abruptly Wednesday. The world's largest cryptocurrency hit its lowest level of the year, falling as much as 9 percent to a low of $5,640.36, according to CoinDesk. From a report: Bitcoin had been trading comfortably around the $6,400 range for the majority of the fall, a stark contrast from its volatile trading year. Other cryptocurrencies fared even worse on Wednesday. Ether fell as much as 13 percent while XRP, the third largest cryptocurrency by market capitalization, dropped 15 percent, according to CoinMarketCap.com. The rout is likely being spurred by uncertainty around bitcoin cash, according to founder and CEO of BKCM, Brian Kelly.
Buttcoins
Dunning krugerrand
Autism kroners
Currency of the future
Next bubble will be Pokemon Futures.
people begin to not believe in hugely hyped vaporware currency. what a surprise... not.
I like my planet cool and not roasted for monopoly money.
Just a few more dozen forks and it will be there, right?
I was told that this time it was different and the average joe would win :(
Why? It has 5 years (at best) before quantum computing destroys it. The post-quantum algorithms require ENORMOUS signature sizes that can't be mitigated with a lightning-network style hack, and would have to be adopted years in advance such that everyone holding any BTC could transition their account over. The math adds up to about 4-8TB/yr every single wallet holder has to maintain just to verify the blockchain (or convert the whole thing into a centralized system where you just trust what is effectively a bank to verify transactions for you - it loses the whole "decentralized' appeal as a result.) That's to say nothing of the cost of transaction sizes when it costs you a minimum of 31KB just to sign a transaction. Lots of accounts won't even be able to pay to convert to the post-quantum protocols, and in turn you'll end up with a massive quantity of missing/lost BTCs siphoned up by whoever possess the first quantum computer capable of running Shor's algorithm (the ensuing scandal from which will likely yield regulations effectively making BTC centralization get taken over by existing banks anyway.)
This is not surprising. After several previous exponential runs in the past we have had 75% drops and plateauing for years after the drop. Dropping from $20K'ish to $5K'ish is consistent with this pattern.
Of course there is one very different thing this time. In the past three occurrences we had ownership by techie speculators. Now we have a ton of wall street and ordinary person speculators. Be interesting to see how they react, if they have the long term faith most techie speculators had.
I'm in! All I have to do is sell my tulip futures an I'll be ready to buy some cheap, cheap bitcoin!
When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
No True Downturn.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I think it will be a lot more than 5 years before the absolutely massive amount of cooling to near absolute zero required for quantum computing to work will be within practical reach of the average consumer.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
May it continue to sink and (hopefully) sink fast!
The bitcoin network is based on software. The software can be updated to change algorithms and keys and underlying strategies (PoW v PoS), etc as necessary.
Most likely BCH has nothing to do with this crash - it has anemic trading and exchange volumes vs. Bitcoin/Ethereum/Ripple and this altcoin alone couldn't have caused the crash. The truth is very few know what really happened but they remain silent. This might be tangentially related but only tangentially. Another possibility is that someone(s) has dumped a lot of crypto-currency on to the market and there's only enough money to keep the exchange rate.
No True Downturn.
I'm leaning towards the wall street and average person speculators not changing the downside very much, but limiting the upside a whole lot. In other words plateauing at $4-5K for a year a two, possibly. Having another 65x run up in a matter of months, very unlikely ever again.
People said the same thing when it was at $10k.
You are welcome on my lawn.
The rout is likely being spurred by uncertainty around bitcoin cash
There's really no uncertainty; just some folks deluding themselves..... Bitcoin cash is a failed hard fork that was dead on arrival,
and such a small portion of the crypto market there's no way this is a likely explanation.
Prices are volatile.... less buying interest more selling interest in BTC, simple as that.
It doesn't have to be practical for everyone, it only takes one person to use a quantum computer in the span of a day to drain every single unconverted bitcoin account.
I just want graphics cards to be reasonably priced again
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
Ironically, chopping the first syllable off of "retard" qualifies as well.
It has 5 years (at best) before quantum computing destroys it.
You are severely overestimating both the rate of advancement in quantum computing. I give it around 15 years.
Realistically, Bitcoin will probably be functionally extinct for other reasons before then. Presumably replaced by something that doesn't use so much damn power.
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
People said the same thing when it was at $10k.
Not me. I was aware of the previous 75% drops and have expected a return to the current levels. The point I'm try to make is that the downside may be similar to past downsides but I doubt the upsides will ever be comparable. The demographics of the holders have changed too much, there will likely be much more, and saner level of, cashing out any gains. $5K, $4K, $3K bottoms - 75%, 80% and 85% drops, I don't think any of those levels will have much different level of cashing out.
It doesn't need to be within reach of everyone. The first practical quantum computers will belong to to universities, governments, and large corporations - but eventually someone is going to start renting processor time on one to anyone who can pay. Probably Amazon.
It's the worlds most obvious pump and dump scheme, geez.
Bitcoin has no value, none, zip, nada. There is no physical backing material (eg actual gold, which has industrial uses, not just jewelry) so there is never anything that can be cashed out. Whoever holds all the bit coins in the end is the one who was stupid enough to buy them in the first place.
Bitcoin has some measure of usefulness if, and only if, it's used as an intermediary with no conversion fees. However that hasn't been the case since BTC was worth $100. It's so overvalued right now, that hanging on to it is foolish. Unless you paid for any of it in the low hundreds, I'd suggest just getting out of it before it crashes back down. There is no floor it will hit, as there is nothing to support it's value at any value.
Even actual stocks and commodities have a floor value that can be hit by dropping below the NPV of the backing source, with stocks this is the actual equity in the value of the property, machinery, etc. With commodities, this is the physical retail value that can be had for the materials. However even many stocks no longer own the properties of their businesses they sit in, and such their entire value is held up by their sales figures. One massive fuckup and that company is wiped out. See PG&E in California, if it's found that they caused the campfire fire, that company's value goes negative. I'm fairly certain that they do not own enough generating assets and transmission equipment to sell to recover the costs of all the lawsuits. They lost 30% of their value when the insurance company said, "nope, not happening."
Bitcoin has the same problem, there is nothing backing it's value, so the minute people realize that and get out, it's value rapidly heads towards zero.
You are severely overestimating both the rate of advancement in quantum computing. I give it around 15 years.
Nope, just taking growth in qubits-per-machine over the last 5 years. They're roughly following Moore's law at this point, are already in the hundreds of qubits range, and it only takes ~1,100 qubits to run Shor's algorithm.
A currency, free of government control, supported by solid crypto, sounds ideal
But, a real currency needs to be used frequently and commonly in legitimate, business
Unfortunately, the main uses of bitcoin seem to be speculation, fraud and the purchase of black market stuff
They were staunch supporters. What that tells me is that the ones that jumped in to speculate and get huge gains are tired of waiting and just getting out. I expect that the real support is around $500. That's the level it was at before the speculators jumped in. $500 is where it is useful for the underground economy.
Bitcoin sure is volatile today!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Libertas in infinitum
People said the same thing when it was at $10k.
The sucker train has ended. Unless space aliens start buying Bitcoin, this ride is over.
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DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
That's all you've got??
Five years from now, people will have likely been forced to learn the difference between fiat currency [backed by governments with militaries] and fiat currency backed by not a fucking thing except expensive utility bills.
I think you are still overestimating how far QC will be along in 5 years...
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
It's followed Moore's law for nearly the last decade with no signs of letting up. Only takes 1,100 qubits to run Shor's algorithm and destroy all pre-quantum cryptographic algorithms and we're already in the few-hundred of qubit range. 2 more doublings (approximately 3 years following trends over the last 8 years) and it's here. 5 years is being extraordinarily conservative in my estimate.
You are nuts. We aren't even close to a few-hundred qubit range. I dub thee "QC Nut" and you are in the same basket is the "AI" and Space Nutters.
So far, it has proved to be good for money laundering and for speculation. What else?
1,100 bits, assuming that error correction is not necessary. Which, as it happens, it is. Badly so. When this is taken into account, two orders of magnitude more qubits will be necessary. Quantum computing powerful enough to apply Shor to nontrivial cases is way further into the future than 5 years. In fact, it remains to be seen whether the error correction requirements for such instances are feasible with our current technology, or any technology in the foreseeable future.
D-Wave is already making them commercially at that scale, with wide enough use that papers are being written from tests on it https://arxiv.org/abs/1304.459...
This is just wrong.
Now's your time. There's a lot of graphics cards on the second hand market. Heck the other day I found a listing from someone selling 20 used 1080s, though admittedly he wasn't entertaining unit sales.
Bitcoin is intrinsincally unfit for its intended purpose. The cost of validating transactions within the network, while based on really cool ideas, just doesn't scale. It is fundamentally limited to a handful of transactions per second, which is absolutely insufficient for the global monetary system it purports to be.
I thought bitcoin was super cool when I read the whitepaper in 2012, aside from a few fatal flaws, it is a thing of beauty. But I recognized its inherent flaws and so I could not get excited by it.
The lightning network is a similar joke. It requires that anyone who wants to participate pair up with the person they want to transact with and sequester bitcoin for the duration of the "lightning" transactions. Thus you have to pay a bitcoin transaction fee (not sure how much that is at the moment, but it has gotten into the tens of dollars per transaction in the past) for every partner that you want to participate with, and you have to limit the number of people you can partner with to the amount of bitcoin you have to sequester for this purpose. And you have to watch the bitcoin network *constantly* because you have no idea if and when the other party may terminate the relationship via another bitcoin transaction.
Supposedly with lightning you can chain in other parties but that also increases the number of transactions you have to be watching for on the bitcoin network. Essentially you become even more tightly bound to the data stream of the bitcoin network than you are when you just trade bitcoin.
Whereas bitcoin is fundamentally unsuited for its purpose because of its inherent low transaction rate, lightning is fundamentally unsuited for its purpose because its network requirements grow exponentially (for participating parties who have to be constantly vigilant to watch for on-blockchain transactions that could affect their lightning balances).
Also the lightning whitepaper has big handwavy "we haven't figured this part out yet" gaps (at least it did when I read it like 8 months ago). It is also so complex that it's hard to find confidence that there aren't loopholes, either in its design or in any software that would be written to implement it (unlike bitcoin which was at least itself simple enough that just about anyone familiar with programming and cryptography could easily validate its design and implementation).
The only thing giving bitcoin significant perceived 'value' is the greedy impulse of buyers looking to get rich quick. Lots of people definitely can conspire, either intentionally (bitcoin price manipulation, definitely a thing), or unintentionally (whims of the market) to place 'value' on something like bitcoin, but it's not something I personally want to be involved with. The early bitcoin forums were filled with the most disgusting collection of get-rich-quick schemers and I have no doubt that it isn't 1,000 times worse now that there is actual real money in it. Not to mention the unsavory underworld criminals you will be in bed with (remember those price manipulators) when you trade in bitcoin.
D-wave is a complete scam. They are just regular digital computers. No wonder you think that.
It's a paper about experiments done on a commercial machine, just freaking look up D-wave.
D-wave is a complete scam. They are just regular digital computers. No wonder you think that.
Lol, no they aren't.
I second that motion. I refuse to even look or consider a new build on principle. Bitcoin and the like need to hurry up and finally die, we all know it is coming, so just die already!