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Cryptocurrencies Tumble Even More, While One Asset Manager Proclaims 'Bitcoin is Dead' (marketwatch.com)
Cryptocurrency prices "fell sharply on Friday, as another bout of selling took digital currencies to fresh lows," reports MarketWatch, adding that Friday the price of Bitcoin "crashed through support at $3,500, falling more than 10% to a 15-month low at $3,230 on the Kraken exchange."
"What a difference a year makes," CNN Business quipped Friday, in an article headlined "Bitcoin's Epic Plunge Continues": In December 2017, bitcoin prices hit a record high of just under $20,000... Bitcoin is at a 15-month low. But prices have really gotten whacked this week, falling nearly 20% in just the past five days alone. Bitcoin isn't the only cryptocurrency getting hit either. Ripple/XRP, ethereum, stellar, litecoin and numerous other cryptocurrencies have plunged in the past week.
Little tangible news can explain or justify the current crypto carnage. One possible reason is that a pro-crypto member of the Securities and Exchange Commission warned at a conference this week that she's fighting an uphill battle trying to convince the rest of the SEC to approve more bitcoin exchange traded funds.... Nearly two-thirds of money managers surveyed by asset management firm Natixis still thought that cryptocurrencies were a bubble, the firm reported this week.
"In my opinion, bitcoin is dead," wrote the CEO of one wealth management firm with more than $32 billion in assets. It won't go quietly, but the recent precipitous drop may be the beginning of its inevitable and inexorable death spiral. Or there could be a dead cat bounce. Either way, I see bitcoin as a dead man walking. Future generations may read about bitcoin in a finance textbook as a curiosity and wonder what all the fuss was about. There are still some die-hard adherents espousing the virtues of bitcoin, desperate to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Unfortunately for them, the end may not be pretty when it comes.
Proponents of bitcoin tend to focus on the impact of the blockchain technology that drives it, and make no mistake, blockchain is the real deal. Blockchain is fundamentally changing the way industries do business, from traditional banking to supply chain management. But just because blockchain technology is creating a new paradigm doesn't mean that bitcoin shares that same distinction.... Most cryptocurrency transactions are purely speculative. There are no real fundamentals to evaluate; bitcoin doesn't produce any products or services, hire any employees or pay any dividends. The only way profits are generated is when the owner is lucky enough to find someone else who will pay more for the thing...
The minute bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency appears to have even the slightest chance of disrupting national monetary supply, I expect regulation to be swift and decisive. The SEC has already issued guidance around cryptocurrencies that has created roadblocks to gaining the same legitimacy as traditional marketable securities... If you enjoy the thrill of making bets, I suggest you visit your favorite sports book or table game in Vegas where your odds of success are much higher.
"What a difference a year makes," CNN Business quipped Friday, in an article headlined "Bitcoin's Epic Plunge Continues": In December 2017, bitcoin prices hit a record high of just under $20,000... Bitcoin is at a 15-month low. But prices have really gotten whacked this week, falling nearly 20% in just the past five days alone. Bitcoin isn't the only cryptocurrency getting hit either. Ripple/XRP, ethereum, stellar, litecoin and numerous other cryptocurrencies have plunged in the past week.
Little tangible news can explain or justify the current crypto carnage. One possible reason is that a pro-crypto member of the Securities and Exchange Commission warned at a conference this week that she's fighting an uphill battle trying to convince the rest of the SEC to approve more bitcoin exchange traded funds.... Nearly two-thirds of money managers surveyed by asset management firm Natixis still thought that cryptocurrencies were a bubble, the firm reported this week.
"In my opinion, bitcoin is dead," wrote the CEO of one wealth management firm with more than $32 billion in assets. It won't go quietly, but the recent precipitous drop may be the beginning of its inevitable and inexorable death spiral. Or there could be a dead cat bounce. Either way, I see bitcoin as a dead man walking. Future generations may read about bitcoin in a finance textbook as a curiosity and wonder what all the fuss was about. There are still some die-hard adherents espousing the virtues of bitcoin, desperate to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Unfortunately for them, the end may not be pretty when it comes.
Proponents of bitcoin tend to focus on the impact of the blockchain technology that drives it, and make no mistake, blockchain is the real deal. Blockchain is fundamentally changing the way industries do business, from traditional banking to supply chain management. But just because blockchain technology is creating a new paradigm doesn't mean that bitcoin shares that same distinction.... Most cryptocurrency transactions are purely speculative. There are no real fundamentals to evaluate; bitcoin doesn't produce any products or services, hire any employees or pay any dividends. The only way profits are generated is when the owner is lucky enough to find someone else who will pay more for the thing...
The minute bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency appears to have even the slightest chance of disrupting national monetary supply, I expect regulation to be swift and decisive. The SEC has already issued guidance around cryptocurrencies that has created roadblocks to gaining the same legitimacy as traditional marketable securities... If you enjoy the thrill of making bets, I suggest you visit your favorite sports book or table game in Vegas where your odds of success are much higher.
Bitcoin will never reach $1000
Now, $3500, is dead. The problem isn't Bitcoin it's people's wild expectations. Well, that and the energy use to make the things.
No surprise here- currency not tied to anything but mindset is going to be destructively fickle and unstable.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
A lot more people use bitcoin now than before. Irrespective of the current price, it's still above what it was a good while ago, and each time it falls, it's to a higher level than it was before.
Bitcoin is not going away, no matter what the financial 'oligarchs' would like. A big fat 'Up yours' to them. This article is just more scaremongering to try to drive the price down more. Won't work love.
99.999% see the bit-monies as a COMMODITY...something to eventually be traded for something more desirable, like American dollars. It is not viewed as a currency.
No one thought Bitcoin was worth $100. Now its the end when it hits $3000.
They us massive amounts of electricity, they spiked the cost of graphics cards so high that they've only just now come down to the level they were at 2 1/2 years ago and they're completely impractical for purchasing anything except maybe drugs (since they're too volatile and slow for much else). Chalk it up as a failed experiment and move on.
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between buying bitcoin or wall street or penny stocks from an investment point of view?
Both tend to be controlled by rumor, innuendo and flash trading, with the average person left out as anything but a source of income based on payments to provide the services of exchange.
You can of course mine bitcoins, but lacking large amounts of free electricity and computer parts, most of the people I know with bitcoins bought them at some point, some did very well and dumped them for large gains, others just sat on them and are complaining about their current valuation.
As usual, there are people "behind the scenes" making legendary amounts of money in either investment.
SHA256 cracking method?
Someone I talked to claimed that bitcoin has provided an excellent checksum collision database due to the way it works, and that said database reduces the need for brute force when attempting to create collision hashes. I don't know if this is true or not, but as both a social experiment and way to do Folding@Home style distributed crack of sha256sum, it would be a brilliant social hack and experiment all rolled into one.
I traded them in for Beanie Babies a long time ago.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Well I'll be goddam if TFS doesn't answer your question:
Little tangible news can explain or justify the current crypto carnage. One possible reason is that a pro-crypto member of the Securities and Exchange Commission warned at a conference this week that she's fighting an uphill battle trying to convince the rest of the SEC to approve more bitcoin exchange traded funds.... Nearly two-thirds of money managers surveyed by asset management firm Natixis still thought that cryptocurrencies were a bubble, the firm reported this week.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Both tend to be controlled by rumor, innuendo and flash trading
Yes but the difference is, there is a fundamental base of Bitcoin users that will remain.
A penny stock is mostly not about the company, but about the manipulation. Whereas bitcoin is at times manipulated, but still has value.
A penny stock company could shut down any time, but Bitcoin cannot go away from the choice of any one person or even small group of people...
In I way I find it amusing, that you and others proclaim Bitcoin is heavily manipulated - at the same time making no connection with multiple stories of Bitcoin being dead.
I was waiting for a buying opportunity, guess this is as clear a one as any.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Thank goodness I sold all my Bitcoin and put my money in the stock market.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I feel the same way about my Microsoft Zune.
You are welcome on my lawn.
"Oh yeah, it's totally dead" - 2011
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
Money is just an idea backed by confidence.
I don't know who said it first, I thought it was Galbraith but apparently not. Similar quotes abound in economic literature. It is a phrase that likely has been around since the day money was first substituted for barter exchange.
The value of any currency is tied to the belief that if it is accepted for payment today then it will be accepted tomorrow.
That's it. Nothing else.
The belief that currency value must be supported by some physical item such as gold has long been shown to be false. It is all about the actors in the market having confidence in the exchange unit. A currency probably does not even need the original national source to continue as a unit of trade.
It helps if the currency has certain usability characteristics such as the ability to be used without difficulty. Demand, and therefor value, is driven upwards if it has characteristics desired by market place traders. If the market no longer demands the bitcoin characteristics that set it apart from government backed national currencies, then the demand for it will fall.
All currency are "mindset" valued.
Blockchain is collective truth verification, for the state of balances and transactions and contracts and votes and holdings and a whack of other things that used to require "paperwork".
Think of it as the anti-Trump.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
So what is everyone using to buy their weed and fentanyl now?
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
GE had a market cap of 280 billion, now around 60 billion. BTC had a market cap around 20 and now is around 60. Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Just because it was trendy enough to go over 300 at some point doesnâ(TM)t mean that was the meaningful data point.
- Tjp
I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!
You are wrong.
Money X gets its value from the social agreement to use X as a token for value, and the maintained social agreement to transact economic transactions using X.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Yes, those social agreements have traditionally been associated with and given a certain stability by the prevailing hierarchical governance organization in one region or another.
No reason the social agreement in the future couldn't be based on X's transactional role in the global economy as a whole, though.
There are ways of implementing some sorts of fully automated monetary policy, for new forms of X, too. They would be based on automatically triggered futures contract sales and the like, to stabilize the currency X's value.
Money is primarily a token of social interaction, co-operation, and agreement.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
The best part (for the environment) is that the overall energy consumption of the Bitcoin network is dropping significantly. According to this estimation the power consumed by the aggregated network has dropped from 73.12 TWh per year (around 8.3 GW on average) one month ago, to 45.54 TWh per year (around 5.2 GW on average) today.
Note that solar panel market installed 98.9 GW last year. With an optimistic efficiency of 50% (nigths, clouds), this means that one month ago we were dedicating one in each 6 new panels installed last year, worldwide, to power Bitcoin. Today, it is "only" one in 9.5.
And yes, those panels are the "clean energy" we are installing to save the world. Bitcoin saves nothing, please save (pun intended) the "but this is the cost for lack of trust/decentralized/...". This is good, and should keep dropping, considering the environmental impact.
the blockchain technology that drives it, and make no mistake, blockchain is the real deal. Blockchain is fundamentally changing the way industries do business, from traditional banking to supply chain management. But just because blockchain technology is creating a new paradigm
Wait, are we talking about the same blockchain?
Though Blockchain has been touted as the answer to everything, a study of 43 solutions advanced in the international development sector has found exactly no evidence of success.
Blockchain Study Finds 0% Success Rate and Vendors Don't Call Back When Asked For Evidence
Better known as 318230.
"There are no real fundamentals to evaluate; bitcoin doesn't produce any products or services, hire any employees or pay any dividends. The only way profits are generated is when the owner is lucky enough to find someone else who will pay more for the thing..."
Modern currencies like the US dollar are not backed by anything tangible either. There is also something with Bitcoin and other crypto currencies of value. The most obvious being its ability to enable consumers and businesses to conduct transactions for less and without being in the same place. People are too quick to write off the cost of maintaining a centralized system based around banks and fiat currency. There may be issues with all current crypto currencies, but to ignore the potential and improvements that have already occurred is a great failure in logic. Advances in privacy and anonymity for instance with the zero coin protocol. This is huge for some markets. Dollars exist alongside euros and different crypto currencies can too.
Everybody point at the libertarian and laugh.
Seen on a Japanese food processor: "Not to be used for the other use."
That's pretty hilarious, you seriously think that people in countries that "killed it" are no longer using Bitcoin?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
to blockchain and cryptocurrency.
It was only associated with the version 1 blockchain and cryptocurrency technology.
Proof-of-stake and other new concepts will replace the energy-intensive proof-of-work.
I wish people would STFU with this particular criticism of crypto/blockchain because it's like criticising houses because you're opposed to bricks.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
People online will now be able to spell hold correctly again. But they will still think that the oppposite of win is loose.
If you don't get some US dollars and then give them to the IRS, IRS agents will eventually show up at your door and remind you that you better get some soon, or they'll be back to take you to prison. Ask Wesley Snipes - even action movie heroes need to have dollars. It might take a while, but eventually they show up.
That means dollars will always have value, as long as the IRS exists. Dollars keep you out of prison.
Additionally, as a bonus anyone who has debt of any kind needs dollars to get rid of that debt, so that the bank doesn't come take their house, car, etc. "Get some dollars or lose your house" is pretty powerful.
Trying sending the IRS some Bitcoins. Not gonna happen. Check your mortgage statemwnt. It's 100,000 DOLLARS you have to eventually pay the bank to keep your house. Sending them a sha-256 hash isn't going to let you keep your house.
How do we know the bank won't switch to denominating mortgages in Bitcoins or Buttcoins or Anonymous Coward Coin? Because the bank needs fifteen million DOLLARS to pay their taxes. So they are always going to want dollars from their customers.
paperwork? wtf, we moved past the 90's 2 decades ago, ledgers, balance sheets and transactions are done electronically. Blockchain is merely another way to do that same thing, arguably better, but it has no actual benefit paperwork wise.
If a person was writing a fictional movie script about people using "computers" to do funds and why a gov got interested?
Tax considerations and nations asking more questions.
Tracking the past "use" in the wild to open investigations on any new owner.
Any past sanctions evasion use is in the past becomes part of what the new owner "did".
A fictional movie about an average person who gets into computer money early and finds they are tracked by big governments years later.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Something I always found amusing... proponents often wax eloquently about gold, how gold is real money, real value, yet the way we got started with gold (and silver) as 'money' was governments demanding people pay their taxes in it rather than grain.
If the value of Bitcoin is a measure of how much life it has then it must have been really, really dead in 2011 when its value was $0.04.
I was with him until:
"Proponents of bitcoin tend to focus on the impact of the blockchain technology that drives it, and make no mistake, blockchain is the real deal. Blockchain is fundamentally changing the way industries do business, from traditional banking to supply chain management."
So he's still a Blockchain-hyper apparently. I would go the opposite: Blockchain does solve real problems for cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin. Distributed cryptocurrencies were not possible before blockchain. It seems around 2013-2014 it started becoming mainstream that this principle could be transferred to all kinds of other situations and that this would be valuable. I have always been a skeptic and have yet to see one instance apart from cryptocurrencies where blockchain truly contributed and worked (and where previous methods, such as digital signatures, wouldn't have been better). Whether Bitcoin is valuable or not is a different question. If it isn't, it just means blockchain has even less to show.
... and prices of used high-end video cards crash.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
and as soon as somebody figures out what that is it's going to take right off. It's a whole new paradigm. Why, that's twice as many digms.
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When you control the whole blockchain it is trivial to regenerate it to say whatever the fuck you like,
The text of the much-ballyhooed Arizona bill (that passed) is:
[The tax office may] "develop, adopt and use a payment system that enables the immediate remittance and collection of tax in real time at the point of sale, including payments of additional amounts after audit."
Their was discussion that this immediate payment system could allow one to pay their 800 DOLLARS of taxes though MasterCard, Visa, CoinDesk Discover, PayPal ...
It's still 800 DOLLARS of taxes you have to pay, whether you pay through PayPal or CoinDesk. There wasn't even ever any discussion of anyone getting a tax bill for .03 BTC.
The more people who come out saying Bitcoin is dead, the closer it is to a bottom.
Bitcoin has been pronounced dead over 3000 times already yet it costs staggering ~ $3300 at the moment.
Something that has no value whatsoever. Right.
Clearly there's a bias against Bitcoin here at /. but it doesn't invalidate Bitcoin in the slightest. Yes, a year ago it was hyped like crazy, rose like crazy and then subsided but it's still very much alive and kicking.
Shitcoins meanwhile have lost a lot more than Bitcoin because most of them are nothing but shit - "breakthroughs in using blockchain" which solve imaginary problems using imaginary tools. See how Ethereum has lost a lot more than Bitcoin because it's been used as a platform for hundreds of worthless ICOs.
bitcoin is dead indicator is the most reliable, buy now, thank me later
You are delusional.
"Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." - H. G. Wells
The raided his house in 2002.
https://www.foxnews.com/story/...
I've have revenue officers knock on my door regarding a company I used to work for.