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Freshwater is Getting Saltier, Threatening People and Wildlife (scientificamerican.com)

Salts that de-ice roads, parking lots and sidewalks keep people safe in winter. But new research shows they are contributing to a sharp and widely rising problem across the U.S. From a report: At least a third of the rivers and streams in the country have gotten saltier in the past 25 years. And by 2100, more than half of them may contain at least 50 percent more salt than they used to. Increasing salinity will not just affect freshwater plants and animals but human lives as well -- notably, by affecting drinking water. Sujay Kaushal, a biogeochemist at the University of Maryland, College Park, recounts an experience he had when visiting relatives in New Jersey. When getting a drink from the tap, "I saw a white film on the glass." After trying to scrub it off, he found, "it turned out to be a thin layer of salt crusting the glass."

When Kaushal, who studies how salt invades freshwater sources, sampled the local water supply he found not just an elevated level of the sodium chloride, widely used in winter to de-ice outdoor surfaces, but plenty of other salts such as sodium bicarbonate and magnesium chloride. He also found similar concentrations of these chemicals in most rivers along the east coast, including the Potomac, which provides drinking water for Washington, D.C. Where did all of it come from? De-icing salts, Kaushal determined, are part of the problem, slowly corroding our infrastructure.

71 of 164 comments (clear)

  1. Cause: all the liberal tears from 2016 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    to [current date].

  2. Sodium Chloride? by JBMcB · · Score: 5, Interesting

    People still use sodium chloride as a deicer? Around here, pretty much all municipalities have switched to calcium chloride, which deices better than sodium chloride, and tends to not kill everone's grass. They'll only use sodium chloride in dire emergencies - IE massive ice storm at the end of the season and there's no calcium chloride to be had, which is pretty rare.

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    1. Re:Sodium Chloride? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Also, NaCl only works down to about -20 Celsius. CaCl works much better.

    2. Re:Sodium Chloride? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Also, NaCl only works down to about -20 Celsius. CaCl works much better.

      Also, CaCl doesn't corrode cars and bridges as badly as NaCl does.

      The big advantage of NaCl is that it is cheap.

      Another option is to put nothing on the roads. This is common in southern states, where snowfall is infrequent, and melts quickly. So everyone just stays home when it snows.

    3. Re:Sodium Chloride? by jmccue · · Score: 1

      People still use sodium chloride as a deicer?

      No worries, with Climate change this is a short term problem. Maybe only needed for another 50 years or so.

      My motto (or bumper sticker) "Why retire to Florida when Florida is coming here

    4. Re:Sodium Chloride? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      This is standard in Oregon, and we get lots of ice on the roads.

      Learn how to drive, people. How did they not understand that this was destructive and builds up in their environment and could only ever be a very temporary solution until they learn how to drive?

      What we do after an ice storm is to dump some gravel on the road. It doesn't do anything to our water supply, it just ends up as part of the road shoulder. Yes, you have to drive slower for a week now that there are little rocks on the road. It amazes me how whiny those east coasters get over this part.

    5. Re:Sodium Chloride? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      In northern Arizona we use volcanic cinder on roads. The city of Flagstaff owns its own little volcano, which it mines for this purpose.

    6. Re:Sodium Chloride? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And why the hell would anyone salt the roads at -20C?

      Once it hits -5, it's better to stop. Keeping the road in the state of constant freezing/meting (which is what happens with salting) destroys the surface. Moreover, the slosh on the road when it's -10 or colder means that wipers can't clean what incoming traffic throws at your windshield - at this temperature the washer liquid freezes on the glass with instant loss of visibility.

    7. Re:Sodium Chloride? by guyniraxn · · Score: 1

      Your winter only lasts a week?

    8. Re:Sodium Chloride? by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      That might work in Oregon, but that is decidedly minor league as far as snow goes. I've lived in snowy areas, and if they get behind in aggressive ice control - deicer, plowing both before during and after snowfall things get ugly fast. You'll end up with 3' of ever deepening glacier on all your roads with ruts that will beach the tallest monster truck. That shit will still be there come June.

      Gravel has some nasty side effects. It releases tons of particulates which are terrible for breathing and they clog up waterways. Most areas have cut back drastically on gravel since it is so terrible. It is helpful if used judiciously.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    9. Re:Sodium Chloride? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      That's just derpy. We do have snow plows.

      There is absolutely no reason why using gravel instead of ice means you can't also plow.

      You're just waving your hands and making up how you think things would be, instead of looking around and finding out how things actually are in other places.

    10. Re:Sodium Chloride? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      A week is how long the gravel lasts on the road after application. Obviously, considering geography.

      Has it really come to this? Are the new kids anti-intellectual even here now?

    11. Re:Sodium Chloride? by guyniraxn · · Score: 1

      Anti-intellectual? You came to that conclusion based on your inability to effectively communicate? Show your work.

    12. Re:Sodium Chloride? by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      I've lived in places that get serious snow. Multiple feet of it. Biggest storm I ever saw was over 10' in 24 hours. I've seen firsthand what happens, one time in Denver it was subzero for days with storm after storm, multiple feet of snow each time. The plows were running nonstop but kept losing ground. Eventually even major roads were deeply rutted and impassible. Even with best practices sometimes nature can overwhelm your resources. Gravel is not best practice. You might be able to get away with it somewhere like Oregon

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    13. Re:Sodium Chloride? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Why do you presume that my ability to communicate hinges on you personally being able to comprehend my statements? Lets just clear that up right now; I write for people capable of comprehension. Even if it is less than 1% of the people whose eyes pass over the page, that is still who I'm targeting.

      If you didn't comprehend what I said, that gives you no information at all about my success at communicating.

      There, now you can say you've seen the formula. I doubt it helped you to understand anything, though.

    14. Re:Sodium Chloride? by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      Alaska does not use de-ices either. I think they just pack it down and drive on it until it melts.

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
  3. Environmentalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    “The demise of water fleas does not just affect the clarity of the water, but will likely also impact the small fish that feed on them,” Hintz adds. “They provide food for the larger fish that humans eat.”

    Conservatives and Republicans, this is why the environment and our ecosystem is important. It's not some "liberal snowflake" luxury. It's about our health and well being.
    And why didn't the summary mention that it's also caused by industrial activities? Business needs to take responsibility for their pollution. Because they just dump or whatever and stick us with the costs.

    1. Re:Environmentalism by Highdude702 · · Score: 4, Funny

      well we obviously need global warming then to stop the snow so they don't have to use the salt on the roads that is salting up the rivers. plus it will melt some glaciers giving us more fresh water! BRB I got to go start this tire fire, its getting a little cold.

    2. Re:Environmentalism by fustakrakich · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yeah, but they still win elections over the so-called "sane" democrats. Maybe everybody should be looking into the mirror to see why that happens.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    3. Re: Environmentalism by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Yeah? what has that ever gotten us, besides massive republican gains two/four years after? You know what an ant mill is?

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    4. Re: Environmentalism by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Too bad it's way below the 'historic losses' of Presidents Obama and Clinton...

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    5. Re:Environmentalism by Freischutz · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but they still win elections over the so-called "sane" democrats. Maybe everybody should be looking into the mirror to see why that happens.

      Yeah, I know negative 40 seats in the last house election, it was a truly stunning landslide victor for Trumpicus.

    6. Re:Environmentalism by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Most of the salt is spread by government entities.

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  4. How is it still legal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    I remember the same discussion back in the 70s. It also hurts pets and damages roads and cars. In Germany many cities have banned the use of thawing salt on roads and sidewalks; some places still allow it but only in extreme weather. Grit is a perfectly viable alternative and the effect lasts much longer.

    1. Re:How is it still legal? by PPH · · Score: 1

      If you want to prevent people from dying in road accidents,

      You slow down. If drivers won't slow down, you use rolling roadblocks. If they try to pass the patrol cars, they get a night in a comfy jail cell.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re: How is it still legal? by dnaumov · · Score: 4, Informative

      Except for the part where scandinavian countries say you are full of shit and use tiny gravel instead. I havenâ(TM)t seen salt used for decades.

    3. Re:How is it still legal? by Aighearach · · Score: 2

      We do this in the whole State of Oregon you dunce. Of course it works.

      Salt is something idiots do. If they kept doing it for 500 years, you wouldn't even have farms left in that part of the world, you'd just create a desert.

      It is a temporary solution, and it is fucking shit up for you already. You might want those farms and drinking water in the future, so it might be time to merely teach winter driving schools and save the farms.

    4. Re: How is it still legal? by PPH · · Score: 1

      The speed of the pilot car. Pass him and go directly to jail. This is already codified into most state laws for construction zones and other hazardous traffic situations.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    5. Re:How is it still legal? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      There are 4 million miles of roads in the US, and about 600,000 police + sheriffs and deputies. Most roads are 2 way. Want to describe how 1 policeman for each 13 miles of road will implement rolling roadblocks?

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    6. Re:How is it still legal? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      981 billion divided by 325 million is not 3.

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    7. Re:How is it still legal? by PPH · · Score: 1

      4 million miles of roads in the US

      And it's snowing on all of them at once?

      You can use highway maintenance vehicles for the rolling roadblocks. Laws regarding obeying their instructions applies just as it does for police. I know this. I used to have state traffic control certification when I worked for the local power company.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  5. Self driving cars should fix this by slickwillie · · Score: 4, Funny

    I mean, they should be able to drive on icy roads, right?

    1. Re:Self driving cars should fix this by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 2

      Physics is physics and friction is friction, regardless what is driving the vehicle. The solution? Don't salt the roads. Put down sand and winter tires or chains should be mandatory. Salting is actually rare in cold-climate countries outside the US as well as cold states in the Western US (i.e. Idaho).

    2. Re:Self driving cars should fix this by XXongo · · Score: 1
      I think the original poster was intending to be ironic.

      However, since the problem with driving on ice is mostly that 10% of drivers that don't have a clue of how to drive in slippery conditions, actually self-driving cars would probably help.

      Or maybe not. I think 100% of the software for self driving cars comes from Southern California, where they don't bother programming for unlikely events like ice on the roads.

    3. Re:Self driving cars should fix this by neilo_1701D · · Score: 1

      I think 100% of the software for self driving cars comes from Southern California, where they don't bother programming for unlikely events like ice on the roads.

      Or, indeed, unforeseen things like drunk driving, crash barriers and 18 wheelers across the road...

    4. Re:Self driving cars should fix this by PPH · · Score: 2

      until sometime in the 1960's
      .
      .
      too much work to remove sand from the storm sewers

      This.

      But in the 1960s, that meant sending someone into each storm sewer grate with a shovel and bucket. Now they use Vactor trucks.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    5. Re:Self driving cars should fix this by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Electronic traction control is why I can drive around on a sheet of solid ice without chains or traction tires or anything. Even with a dusting of snow on top. Even onramps, offramps.

      Right now self-driving cars suck at snow, but that's about vision. The traction part they'll have an easy time be better at handling than humans.

    6. Re:Self driving cars should fix this by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Most municipalities already use a combination of sand and salt. The problem is more south-wards where ice and snow are much rarer, they tend to spray pure salt the minute a flock of snow hits their pavement. Further north, they don't even use salt until you get a few cm of snow (you just get mud slush).

      Chains aren't a panacea either, you can only go ~30km/h (20mph) on them or risk destroying either the chains or the car and you lose a lot of grip if it hasn't quite snowed that much.

      --
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    7. Re:Self driving cars should fix this by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 2

      If you're driving on a sheet of "solid ice" and not skidding off of it, you're probably not driving on solid ice. Most cars made after 2012 or so have traction/stability control, and one still sees stuck late-model cars. Physics is physics.

    8. Re:Self driving cars should fix this by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      All three of your examples though are from non-self-driving cars in situations involving lane-assist features.

      Maybe you're wearing too much cologne and the Musk is clawing at your nose. Or something. Probably Musk-related, though.

    9. Re:Self driving cars should fix this by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      But they don't kill the rivers and croplands. Just remember, they used to salt the field of the enemy's so they would never be able to grow food again. And we do it to ourselves without thinking.

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
  6. Meaningless statistics by renzema · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "by 2100, more than half of them may contain at least 50 percent more salt than they used to" - a total meaningless statistic. Are are going from 1 ppb to 2 ppb, which is essentially a non-event, or from 1% to 2%, which would have serious implications? Doubling without giving a baseline and what that baseline represents is just scaremongering.

    1. Re:Meaningless statistics by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      Well that's one argument for keeping the populace ignorant. ("Ignorance is bliss," as they say.) Are there any more?

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    2. Re: Meaningless statistics by renzema · · Score: 1

      Yea, you got me. But the principle is the same. 50% more than x, where x is not clearly defined is still meaningless.

  7. My BS detector is pegged by nicoleb_x · · Score: 2

    This is all hyperbole and other than a few random water tests is very weak on facts. Salinity increases are usually caused by droughts.

  8. This will kill you... by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

    ...much faster than "climate change". The fact that people are ignoring local pollution to focus on climate change is outrageous. You can't sell carbon credits to "fix" local pollution though.

    1. Re:This will kill you... by XXongo · · Score: 1
      That's a false dichotomy-- it's not mutually exclusive.

      And your scare headline is wrong.

    2. Re:This will kill you... by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      No, but it is complimentary. Fixing all the local problems does the same for the global one at the same time. The whole flock can turn on a dime, in an instant, when the individuals are in sync

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    3. Re:This will kill you... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, it's far easier to stop salting the damn roads than to switch away from all fossil fuels globally and start artificially sequestering carbon on a planetary scale.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  9. What manners. by nukenerd · · Score: 1

    FTFA :-

    .... an experience he had when visiting relatives in New Jersey. When getting a drink from the tap, "I saw a white film on the glass." After trying to scrub it off ....

    He sounds like a model house guest.

  10. Jokes aside this is a problem that only affects by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    the poor. You can buy a reverse osmosis filtration system for about $200-$500 bucks per faucet and that should filter out most of the salt.

    Also, when it comes to water rural communities have much, much bigger problems. Their pipes are going on 100 years old and nobody wants to pay to replace them. Estimates put it at $750 billion to fix the whole country. I'm surprised nobody on the left is talking about that. All they talk about is roads and bridges. Get that message across and you could snatch the farmlands back from the right wing.

    --
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    1. Re:Jokes aside this is a problem that only affects by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      All they talk about is roads and bridges.

      Well, yeah, the money spreads farther. Pipes only affect one city at a time. Flint has already been forgotten. Certain conspiracy theories make far better headlines around the country.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  11. CaCl2 [Re:Sodium Chloride?] by XXongo · · Score: 2

    People still use sodium chloride as a deicer? Around here, pretty much all municipalities have switched to calcium chloride, which deices better than sodium chloride, and tends to not kill everone's grass.

    In general it's the chloride that's the problem, not the sodium ion, so CaCl2 is not much better than NaCl for the environment. It does de-ice at a lower temperature, though. https://stormwater.pca.state.m... https://www.oxycalciumchloride...

    1. Re:CaCl2 [Re:Sodium Chloride?] by JBMcB · · Score: 2

      In general it's the chloride that's the problem, not the sodium ion, so CaCl2 is not much better than NaCl for the environment. It does de-ice at a lower temperature, though.

      Er, no. Sodium chloride tends to interfere with water take-up in macro- and micro- organisms. It's an issue with sodium chloride in particular. Calcium Chloride *can* have the same effect, but you need a *very* high concentration. The chloride ions can be a problem, also, but again, you need a TON of the stuff to impact anything.

      It's just one data point, but there is a river that runs near my house that snakes it's way for miles towards a lake. The majority of storm drains in the county I'm in dump into it. Where it hits the lake is some of the best fishing in the area. It's dense with seaweed and fish. If increased calcium chloride had any kind of adverse effect on micro or macro organisms, it would be occurring in that spot.

      --
      My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    2. Re:CaCl2 [Re:Sodium Chloride?] by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Instead of salt, try some lateral thinking. Build your properties above major roads and turn building lots into parks. Safe travel in all weathers and you are directly above transport corridors for easy social and business access, you also recover than land value under roads.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  12. Re:drinking water by StikyPad · · Score: 1

    Seems like municipal water systems should be performing RO before sending water out to begin with.

  13. We're all gettin' saltier every year by zwarte+piet · · Score: 1

    It's part of the human experience

  14. Re:drinking water by neilo_1701D · · Score: 2

    Given the nature of how water treatment works everyone should be using a reverse osmosis (RO) system for their *drinking* water. .

    Whilst I agree, this doesn't help the environment. Birds, ducks, fish etc. don't have the luxury of finding a nice, portable RO system to carry around.

  15. Re:drinking water by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

    The thing is, in the U.S., we're used to being able to drink the water straight from the tap. Seems only civilized, kinda like having an indoor toilet. It would be a real shame and a giant step backwards to give that up.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  16. Re:drinking water by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 2

    To a degree; OP's point is that you have multiple grades of needs, and the central supply shouldn't really treat all water to the highest requirement. There is also the lead pipe issue in places and a host of other things that really make it a good idea.

    Only downside is you waste a lot of water with RO; nice if you can pipe the concentrate stream for something like laundry or at least toilet flushing.

  17. Water softeners that use salt by bjdevil66 · · Score: 1

    They use a ridiculous amount of salt just to soften water - and dump salt directly into the water reservoir.

    The tech should be restricted or banned since there are other solutions out there.

  18. I'd think it's a drop in the ocean (pun intended) by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

    I'd think that seawater infiltrating freshwater sources, as ocean levels rise, would be a bigger long-term threat than de-icing roads.

  19. Re: Tap water used to be better than bottled water by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

    In the US some companies got caught bottling tap water and selling it as "spring water".

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  20. How to fix this by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    When a person wants to "drive" make them ask their gov for permission.
    Are they a criminal? An illegal migrant?
    Once people who are approved to 'drive" are found then start with much better education.
    Lots of tests and advanced driving simulators.
    Finally normal driving.
    Then bring in advance ice driving as part of testing.
    How a car drives in winter conditions.
    Pass the new tests and a nations driving population will be able to better use winter and summer roads.

    Ensure transport used has the approved and correct equipment for winter. Enforce car and equipment laws every winter.
    Clear the roads sooner and have a better quality of educated and tested driver.
    Find better drivers, have the correct equipment. Study what is needed on a road so good drivers with good winter equipment can drive.
    That could see a reduction in the total national de-ice effort. Better drivers, less total amounts of de-ice spending. In terns of amount of chemicals used, the types of chemicals and number of roads that need all winter de-ice work.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    1. Re: How to fix this by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      AC eg Driving licence in Finland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  21. Re:drinking water by schematix · · Score: 1

    Pretty ignorant statement. RO water is actually pretty corrosive to distribution systems (flint, MI anyone?). Better to put it just where it's needed - for drinking water.

    --
    Scott
  22. Shelter from the Storm [Re:CaCl2] by XXongo · · Score: 1

    Instead of salt, try some lateral thinking. Build your properties above major roads and turn building lots into parks. Safe travel in all weathers and you are directly above transport corridors for easy social and business access, you also recover than land value under roads.

    Good idea, but note that you will now need to illuminate your roads. That takes energy.

  23. Re: I'm offended by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    Generals Washington, Grant, and Eisenhower would like a word with you.

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  24. Re: Distillation? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    Fluoride, if used, should be applied to teeth by toothbrush or mouthwash. Whole-body application via drinking water is not beneficial and might be harmful.

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  25. Re: Global Communism by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    Collectivized farming replaced cyclical famine with perpetual famine.

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