Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping x32 Support (phoronix.com)

No! by Frederic54 · 2018-12-12 02:08 · Score: -1

There is still a lot of product in the wild using some x32 architecture, be them 486+ or whatever, with kernel 2.6, please keep it thanks!

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Re: No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:10 · Score: 4, Insightful

That's not what the x32 ABI is for.
Re:No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:11 · Score: -1

This isn't 32 bit support, it's a way for a 32 bit OS, with 32 bit memory to use the 64 bit registers.
Re:No! by Misagon · 2018-12-12 02:11 · Score: 5, Informative

That's not what x32 is. 32-bit x86 will still be supported.
"x32" is an ABI for x86-64 that uses 32-bit pointers with the x86-64 instruction set for better performance when a large address space is not needed.
It's in the second paragraph in the TFA ;)

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Re:No! by mridoni · 2018-12-12 02:11 · Score: 3, Informative

Wrong CPU, nothing to do with 4/586s. From TFA itself:

The Linux x32 ABI as a reminder requires x86_64 processors and is engineered to support the modern x86_64 features but with using 32-bit pointers rather than 64-bit pointers. The x32 ABI allows for making use of the additional registers and other features of x86_64 but with just 32-bit pointers in order to provide faster performance when 64-bit pointers are unnecessary.
While the x32 support was plumbed through the Linux landscape, it really hasn't been used much. Kernel developers are now discussing the future of the x32 ABI due to the maintenance cost involved in still supporting this code but with minimal users.
Re:No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:12 · Score: 0

Just don't upgrade :/
Re:No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:13 · Score: 1

This isn't about removing x86 32 bit support as far as I can see, it's about removing 32 bit support for 64-bit processors using the x86_64 branch, it's niche and only started appearing in 2012:
details
Re:No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:14 · Score: 1

You mean "x86" architecture, and that's not what this is about. "x32" is a feature of the Linux kernel where an application can run in a 4GB address space with all pointers being only 32 bit wide while still being in x86-64 mode and having access to all of the new instructions.
Re:No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:16 · Score: 0

This is about x32, not, x86. In short, it's about using 64-bit mode on a modern 64-bit x86 processor, but using 32-bit pointers for everything, so you get the extra registers but are limited to 4 GiB of address space. The only reason to do so is if you think you don't need the address space and your application is noticeably slowed down by wasting space on larger pointers.
Re:No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:16 · Score: 0

There is still a lot of product in the wild using some x32 architecture, be them 486+ or whatever, with kernel 2.6, please keep it thanks!
They couldn't run the current Linux anyway. With all the GNU bloat shit, you couldn't even install it on a machine like that. You need at least four hundred gigs of RAM, several hundred terabytes of disk storage, a 5Tbps internet connection to download it, and a dedicated power station for your machines.
Why I tried installing the latest version of GNU/Linux on the Cray in my bedroom and after a week of downloading, another two weeks installing, a month of configuration, the Cray just choked on it!
And I didn't even attempt to run Gnome!
No sir! There's just no point in supporting any of today's machines. Maybe in the distant future, someone will make a computer that can run GNU/Linux, but for the time being, it's gotta be Windows.
Re:No! by Desler · 2018-12-12 02:17 · Score: 1

A 486 does not support x32.
Re: No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:18 · Score: 0

This is talking about x32, not x86, support. While it could have been clarifies by the summary, x32 can only be used with x86_64 processors. The "architecture" uses x86's 4 byte pointers and integers with the additional registers provided by the x86_64 extension. It essentially turns the Intel ISA into a RISC-style architecture.
There are some advantages to using x86_64 processors with 32-bit pointers, like speed and smaller code size. What makes this unnecessary is the fact that storage and memory have become so cheap that it isn't required.
Re: No! by Desler · 2018-12-12 02:21 · Score: 5, Informative

It allows access to the extended registers of x86_64 but with 32-bit pointers. It requires an x86_64 processor to be used.
Re: No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:26 · Score: -1

Perhaps you could not be retarded and just know this?
X32 is a stupid version of 64 bit that uses 32-bit pointers.
Never understood who thought this was a good idea.
Re: No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:29 · Score: 0

If the summary is so unclear, it is uninteresting. Why would anyone then rtfa?
Re: No! by lgw · 2018-12-12 02:32 · Score: 3, Interesting

Perhaps you could not be retarded and just know this?
X32 is a stupid version of 64 bit that uses 32-bit pointers.
Never understood who thought this was a good idea.
People who care about memory footprint? Linux is used in some pretty small systems, still. If you have far, far less than 4GB you not only don't need 64-bit addressing, you need to not waste 4 bytes on every pointer.
Why not just use x86? More registers (and x64 has a lot more registers) can make a real performance impact.

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Re: No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:32 · Score: -1

Lick my tuna-scented labia, troll.
Re:No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:33 · Score: 0

Linux is just loving to throw away performance features now days. No longer is it desktop ready.
Re: No! by willaien · 2018-12-12 03:14 · Score: 1

Not to mention that x32 still lets you use 64-bit native words, etc. for faster computation with the smaller memory footprint.
Re: No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 03:19 · Score: 0

Get back to me when you find a "desktop" application that uses this.
Re: No! by _merlin · 2018-12-12 03:27 · Score: 1

Also PC-relative addressing works in x32 mode, and that's a huge gain over i386 for position-independent code (think shared libraries and ASLR). It's supposed to help reduce the size of the working set so you don't thrash the cache as much as you would with 64-bit pointer, size_t etc. Cache miss latency is horrible on modern systems. The trouble is, there are very few libraries built for it, so you pretty much have to build your own userland before you can do anything.
Re:No! by aitikin · 2018-12-12 03:28 · Score: 1

It's in the second paragraph in the TFA ;)
I'd say you must be new here if you expect people to RTFA, but your UID is a respectable 4 digits...

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Re: No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 03:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

An x64 processor is expensive, large, and power-hungry for modern "pretty small systems." If you have far, far less than 4GB, you've probably moved to 32-bit ARM.
Re:No! by thegarbz · 2018-12-12 03:41 · Score: 4, Funny

I'd say you must be new here if you expect people to RTFA, but your UID is a respectable 4 digits...
Or another way of putting it, his UID can be expressed in 11bits and is therefore obsolete and we should consider dropping support.
Re:No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 03:44 · Score: 0

Too bad Trotsky-slut SJWs in FOSS are not likewise loosing kernel support. Linux usrland has been pointing with derision to their pimpish culture-whoring for years.
Re: No! by lgw · 2018-12-12 04:05 · Score: 1

An x64 processor is expensive, large, and power-hungry for modern "pretty small systems." If you have far, far less than 4GB, you've probably moved to 32-bit ARM.
I admire your ideal world where management chooses components rationally.

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Re: No! by Chris+Mattern · 2018-12-12 04:06 · Score: 1

Never understood who thought this was a good idea.
People under severe memory constraints who need to use pointers that take up only half the space? People under severe performance constraints who can't spare the cycles to copy 64-bit pointers or do 64-bit lookups?
Re:No! by Frederic54 · 2018-12-12 04:10 · Score: 2

Ah damn ok it isn't x86, I was confused...

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Re: No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 04:50 · Score: 0

I don't care what car you drive, or what it smells like, I don't want to lick it!
Re: No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 05:11 · Score: 0

You're responding to somebody who probably considers javascript a low level language.
Re: No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 05:26 · Score: 0

Challenge accepted.
Re: No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 05:52 · Score: 0

Not even. X86_64 CPUs can run x86 code just fine. There is a special abi that allows using the 64bit features in 32bit mode. Neat in theory, but almost never used in practice.
Re:No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 06:08 · Score: 0

give it up ... never was and never will be.
Re: No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 06:28 · Score: 0

Management choosing components should be a strong signal to find another job. Engineers should be picking components.
Re: No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 06:48 · Score: 0

This isn't 4GB per system, this is 4GB per process. So, for example, an x32 version of Chrome can still hog all your computer's RAM since it's a set of processes rather than just one.
Re:No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 07:01 · Score: 1

We're only talking about dropping support for referencing UID 1135 directly. He can still reference it like everyone else by using the standard UID 0000001135 scheme.
Re: No! by sa666_666 · 2018-12-12 08:25 · Score: 1

Never understood who thought this was a good idea.
People under severe memory constraints who need to use pointers that take up only half the space? People under severe performance constraints who can't spare the cycles to copy 64-bit pointers or do 64-bit lookups?
Why are said people using a 64-bit CPU in the first place, then? Let them use a 32-bit ARM CPU or something, and stop gimping the x86_64 architecture.
Re: No! by Chris+Mattern · 2018-12-12 08:30 · Score: 1

Why are said people using a 64-bit CPU in the first place, then? Let them use a 32-bit ARM CPU or something, and stop gimping the x86_64 architecture.
Because the architecture offers significant enhancements besides 64-bit pointers, and they want those enhancements without having 64-bit pointers for the reasons I stated.
Re: No! by Aighearach · 2018-12-12 09:26 · Score: 1

Hey Ivan, welcome back!
For today's English lesson, go and look up Ms. and Miss.
Stop complaining about the summary when you don't even understand basic English. Try running it through Google Translate or something.
Re: No! by Aighearach · 2018-12-12 09:32 · Score: 3, Informative

Modern memory-constrained systems are not x64, though. They're ARM. The type of memory constraints that x86 systems have are not at the scale that benefits from accessing half a register.
And when you're programming an embedded system that is that memory-constrained, it is perfectly normal to have sections of inline ASM. So that is what you'd do if you actually needed this.
And generally when things are that constrained you're not using linux anyways. That's the real point. People accessing half a register are running Mbed OS or FreeRTOS or something. Before you want this feature, you already switched to ARM, and you probably also then went smaller than linux.
Re: No! by Aighearach · 2018-12-12 09:34 · Score: 1

Just because the BOFH didn't explain their reasons, doesn't mean they were irrational. It only means you're not important enough to know. And the BOFH is probably an engineer.
Re: No! by Aighearach · 2018-12-12 09:38 · Score: 1

This should only save space, not cycles. A 64 bit computer takes the same time to do a 64 bit or 32 bit operation. This is all about pointer size.
The same thing exists on 32 bit machines, where it is normal to support both 32 and 16 bit pointers.
Re: No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 16:44 · Score: 0

Those written by programmers with a clue - obviously that doesn't include you since you're clueless. Oh, also several Linux-operated pieces of hardware utilize it.
Deuces, ya ill-educated fuck.
Re:No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-13 07:49 · Score: 0

When people have been calling the AMD64 architecture 'x64', it makes perfect sense to mistake the rare 'x32' architecture for '32-bit x86'.
Yeah, I call it amd64. Both x86_64 and x64 are terrible names.
Re: No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-13 20:39 · Score: 0

This is actually great for shitty old netbooks with the hard 2gb RAM limit. It's a real shame that distros targeting older systems aren't using this, it maximizes usefulness of lots of old hardware.
Real fucking shame it's not more widely available
Re: No! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-17 04:37 · Score: 0

Correct lgw (used it in function/proc calls) in https://linux.slashdot.org/com... where in Windows @ least, the 32-bit version of my program had a LIMIT of 8 "register" (C++ analog to "fastcall" function/proc pointers) & the 64-bit model could have up to 16 of them!
* Yes - it makes a difference on repeatedly called functions/procs & ESPECIALLY "workhorse" ones that AFTER I "hand-profiled" my code!
(Where to profile, I do 'oldschool' methods of registering hi-res multimedia timers in my code, checking time taken in each in repeated runs, recording it & then applying register to ones that take the MOST time &/or DO THE MOST WORK (especially IF/when repeatedly called (no recursion types in this program though)).
APK
P.S.=> Interesting thread/article here on /. today - refreshing & back to "old-school slashdot" imo (better than POLITICAL or "SJW" articles that have been hitting this place the past year or so now)... apk
Re:No! by proto · 2018-12-19 13:37 · Score: 1

Its nice to see an informative post by a dedicated Slashdot fan (a rare action now a days). I ran out of mod points but I thing I would friend you instead. Thanks Misagon.

What is x32? by Megane · 2018-12-12 02:10 · Score: 4, Informative

Would it have hurt to include this?

The Linux x32 ABI as a reminder requires x86_64 processors and is engineered to support the modern x86_64 features but with using 32-bit pointers rather than 64-bit pointers. The x32 ABI allows for making use of the additional registers and other features of x86_64 but with just 32-bit pointers in order to provide faster performance when 64-bit pointers are unnecessary.

...except for the fact that this explanation is 25% of the four-paragraph article, and another 25% of it was already in TFS. Oops.

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Re:What is x32? by dunkelfalke · 2018-12-12 02:50 · Score: 1

Generally it would not hurt, but this is, after all, Slashdot so contributors assume a certain amount of "general knowledge".

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Re:What is x32? by squiggleslash · 2018-12-12 02:54 · Score: 1

I guarantee that 90% of the responses to this article will think they're dropping ia32/x86 support (or whatever you call the architecture that began on the 80386)...
To give an on-topic response, I think it's a shame, but predictable. Most people are either interested in full 64 bit or in backward compatibility, the benefits of X32 were obvious but marginal, a slight performance improvement in return for the need to recompile everything and be limited to 32 bit addressing in the future at a time when 4G no longer seems like a huge amount of memory.

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Re:What is x32? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 03:08 · Score: 1

Generally it would not hurt, but this is, after all, Slashdot so contributors assume a certain amount of "general knowledge".

The article is about how this technology is obscure, and barely used. By definition that means that even among tech people it's not particularly well known. I actually _did_ happen to know about it, but that's only because years ago I did a little research into the 2038 problem, which on Linux is connected to running a 32 bit OS. the x32 ABI came up in passing.
That was several years ago. This is the first time I've heard anyone mention it since.
Re:What is x32? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 03:30 · Score: 0

Exactly. I did not know what x32 was, but I knew it wasn't i386 or i586, a quick google search (I draw the line at RTFA) later and I now know more.
Re:What is x32? by xvan · 2018-12-12 03:30 · Score: 1

I can't think of a system that needs no more than 4GB, but needs the extra performance of 32bit addressing space.
Re:What is x32? by thegarbz · 2018-12-12 03:43 · Score: 1

Generally it would not hurt, but this is, after all, Slashdot so contributors assume a certain amount of "general knowledge".
An esoteric ABI so barely used that dropping its support is being considered by Linux most definitely does not qualify as general knowledge. Hell being general knowledge alone would likely be grounds for it to remain supported.
Re:What is x32? by pak9rabid · 2018-12-12 03:58 · Score: 1

I can't think of a system that needs no more than 4GB, but needs the extra performance of 32bit addressing space.
It would be nice to have on x86_64 embedded systems with limited memory such as these, which are commonly used for networking gear.
Re:What is x32? by sconeu · 2018-12-12 04:25 · Score: 1

386 is 'i386'. ia32 is Itanium.

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Re:What is x32? by Immerman · 2018-12-12 04:49 · Score: 1

Why so verbose? Less is usually more:
>...began supporting the x32 ABI(which allows 64-bit code to use 32-bit pointers to reduce overhead), but already kernel developers...

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Re:What is x32? by shoor · 2018-12-12 04:49 · Score: 1

If I'd been writing the summary, I wouldn't have necessarily included the full techno description of what x32 ABI is, which might just be techo-babble for a lot of people, but I would have added "this has nothing to do with the old 32 bit architecture intel CPUs." somewhere early on.

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Re:What is x32? by squiggleslash · 2018-12-12 05:02 · Score: 1

ia64 is Itanium. ia32 is the architecture introduced in the 80386.
Yeah, I know, it got confusing when the AMD 64 bit thing happened.

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Re:What is x32? by xvan · 2018-12-12 05:03 · Score: 1

I thought of those at first, but in such case, the issue is memory space and not memory access time which would be improved. Found these benchmarks(end of post)

Seems x32 would reduce the memory footprint up to 25%, might be to somebody doing a tight design.
Re:What is x32? by squiggleslash · 2018-12-12 05:08 · Score: 3, Informative

The extra performance you get out of X32 is the use of AMD's more optimal 64 bit instruction set. It's not about the address space, it's about the fact you have faster instructions, you have more registers, and you can process 64 bit values (integers, bit masks, etc) in almost the same amount of time it takes to process a 32 bit value. Remember that the 80386 was never considered an optimal CPU, it was the best Intel could do at the time with the conflicting needs of not having Motorola eat their lunch, while ensuring old software written for their previous, shittier, architectures, could easily run on the new system.
The logic behind X32 was that most applications (which was true at the time) have no need for 64 bit addresses (or, to be more accurate, 33 bit addresses), but would benefit from the AMD ABI's faster instructions. And to be fair, that's still true, it's just we all know it's not going to be true for much longer Firefox.

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Re:What is x32? by sconeu · 2018-12-12 07:19 · Score: 1

Damn. You're right. I was thinking iAPX32, which was the Intel 432.

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Re:What is x32? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 09:49 · Score: 0

Even..
"The x32 ABI, which requires x86_64 processors, allows the use of the additional registers and other features of x86_64 but with 32-bit (instead of 64-bit) pointers to provide faster performance when 64-bit pointers are unnecessary."
Re:What is x32? by SigmundFloyd · 2018-12-12 10:41 · Score: 1

Would it have hurt to include this?
The Linux x32 ABI as a reminder requires x86_64 processors and is engineered to support the modern x86_64 features but with using 32-bit pointers rather than
64-bit pointers.
It would have required decent editors.

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Knowledge is power; knowledge shared is power lost.
Re:What is x32? by Waccoon · 2018-12-12 14:07 · Score: 1

Given how many people are confused as to what x32 is, that 25% explanation in the summary clearly isn't enough.
But, hey, never pass up an opportunity to claim, "User error, as usual!", especially when talking about obscure technologies few people even know about.
Re:What is x32? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-13 01:33 · Score: 0

The x32 mode was introduced in the 2011-2012 time frame and it was not about AMD. In 2008 Intel released the Atom processor and it only supported 32-bit, but it offered the SSE3 instructions. The processor was ideal for low-end desktop, mobile systems, embedded systems, and the like. In 2012, Intel launched the 64-bit Atom processors, but was still selling 32-bit Atom versions years later. Today, the Atom processors are all 64-bit.
In 2010 (e.g. before x32 mode), the only way to use SSE3 support in Linux was via the x86_64 kernel. This kernel, however, could not work on the 32-bit Atom processors. So Atom users were stuck with the 32-bit Linux kernel that was compatible with the i486 instruction set and simply could not get some hardware optimization from the Atom. So an Intel engineer started writing this x32 mode. This mode could theoretically benefit other embedded applications, even if they were not using the Atom processor. Various people spoke of various use-case scenarios where this could be a handy mode.
In 2018, there are still some use cases for it. The prevalence of energy efficient 64-bit processors and cheap/dense RAM make these cases less cost effective.
Re:What is x32? by squiggleslash · 2018-12-13 05:37 · Score: 1

You're thinking of something else. X32 is merely the amd64 (ix86-64) instruction set used with 32 bit pointers. It has nothing to do with Atom or SSE3. X32 was proposed by Donald Knuth (yep, THAT Donald Knuth) shortly after AMD64 came into existence.

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What about original code? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:13 · Score: 0

Back in the day Linus share his code with humanity, the idea was to provide a unix kernel alternative for 32bits i386 processors. This means, that whatever original code still exists in the kernel will be removed for good?

Re:What about original code? by Desler · 2018-12-12 02:19 · Score: 1

No, not at all. The two have nothing to do with each other. x32 is not the same as x86.
Re:What about original code? by doconnor · 2018-12-12 02:35 · Score: 1

One reason Linux has supported so many processors is that most of it has always been in written in C.

x32 does not mean what you think it means by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:13 · Score: 1

Wikipedia:

The x32 ABI is an application binary interface (ABI) and one of the interfaces of the Linux kernel. It allows programs to take advantage of the benefits of x86-64 instruction set (larger number of CPU registers, better floating-point performance, faster position-independent code, shared libraries, function parameters passed via registers, faster syscall instruction) while using 32-bit pointers and thus avoiding the overhead of 64-bit pointers.

It's a 64-bit CPU thing, not a 32-bit CPU thing.

Re: x32 does not mean what you think it means by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 05:15 · Score: 0

So it's more relevant to my Nintendo 64.

Anyone have statistics? by Maury+Markowitz · 2018-12-12 02:15 · Score: 1

Does anyone have comments on how many apps made use of this? I know that's kind of nebulous, and a nebulous answer is fine.

Re:Anyone have statistics? by 110010001000 · 2018-12-12 02:18 · Score: 0

Two.
Re:Anyone have statistics? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:26 · Score: 0

I am pretty sure whole distributions have been compiled for x32.
Re:Anyone have statistics? by crow · 2018-12-12 02:40 · Score: 1

No, but...
Well, in reading that, it occurred to me that it might be interesting to see if I could compile a Gentoo system in x32, but I have a few programs that really need 64-bit pointers (based on their memory footprint): X, web browsers, libreoffice, and a few others. I suppose that means I would need a multilib support for this, and that gets ugly.
Re:Anyone have statistics? by Junta · 2018-12-12 02:43 · Score: 1

The intent was to provide for a memory-efficient architecture that availed itself of the richer register space of x86_64. In practice, that's not a widespread interest (limiting to 4GB of ram support on architectures that can fundamentally support a lot more). General distributions wouldn't bother touching it (a lot of work to maintain a distro for users that have *almost* as good experience with an i686 distro), embedded applications may be more interested, but even they are outgrowing 4GB and honestly don't generally need that extra oomph of x32 v. x86 (at least the areas that would even think of using an x86_64 platform in the first place, not a popular embedded choice).

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Re:Anyone have statistics? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 03:29 · Score: 0

429.mcf and 473.astar
Re:Anyone have statistics? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 04:05 · Score: 0

Are there any? It might be fun to test how much x32 saves in practice. Unless one is having a massive dynamic tree or other data structure, savings from 32b pointers are microscopic. Of course the small pointers could help in keeping more data in caches, but if the data is so small it fits to 4GB, it might easily be just indexed with 32b ints instead of pointers.
Re:Anyone have statistics? by Immerman · 2018-12-12 05:03 · Score: 2

I would think it would be fairly limited. The benefit would really only be felt by programs where a large percentage of the total used memory was pointers... so perhaps large graph-analysis applications? Perhaps neural networks, where it could reduce the size of an individual "synapse" from 96 bits (64 bit pointer + 32 bit weight) to 64 bits (32bit pointer+32 bit weight), saving roughly 1/3rd of the total program memory without resorting to index-based access and the associated overhead of pointer addition (though x32 may still incur that overhead behind the scenes - I don't know).
Offhand I can't think of anything else that's going to have a pointer/data ratio high enough for the size of pointers to make much difference.
Hmm, though the other factor is cache page size - you can fit twice as many 32 bit pointers in the same cache page - so for traversing large data trees you could potentially get a significant performance boost by using smaller pointers. Provided of course that you never wanted to deal with more than 4GB of total data.

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Re:Anyone have statistics? by quintus_horatius · 2018-12-12 05:27 · Score: 1

IIRC 32-bit pointers chop something like 20% off the Firefox binary vs it's 64-bit version. That's not an inconsiderate savings.
Of course, you wouldn't want to run Firefox, Chrome, LibreOffice, or X with a 4-gig memory limit, hence the utility just isn't there for the times you would really like it.
Re:Anyone have statistics? by LordNimon · 2018-12-12 05:36 · Score: 1

Isn't it technically less than 4GB of RAM because you still need address space for PCI devices?

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Re:Anyone have statistics? by petermgreen · 2018-12-12 07:01 · Score: 1

Debian has an unofficial x32 port. I don't know how usable it is though.

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Re:Anyone have statistics? by JesseMcDonald · 2018-12-12 07:27 · Score: 1

x32 was only ever a userspace ABI; the kernel is still using x86_64 and has access to the full 64-bit address space. Only applications are limited to 4GB of virtual memory per process, just like ordinary 32-bit x86 apps under a 64-bit kernel.

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Re:Anyone have statistics? by Aighearach · 2018-12-12 09:43 · Score: 1

To be fair, you either wouldn't want to, or you'd want to really bad. Depending.
Re:Anyone have statistics? by _merlin · 2018-12-12 11:06 · Score: 1

Hmm, though the other factor is cache page size - you can fit twice as many 32 bit pointers in the same cache page - so for traversing large data trees you could potentially get a significant performance boost by using smaller pointers. Provided of course that you never wanted to deal with more than 4GB of total data.
Bingo! Cache miss latency is horrible on modern CPUs. x32 reduces your data size down a bit, particularly for things like STL structures that have pointers and sizes all over the place. It's a nice idea in theory, but the trouble is you have to build your own userland, and forget third-party libraries.
Re:Anyone have statistics? by Immerman · 2018-12-12 13:53 · Score: 1

Ouch - I hadn't thought of the userland and library incompatibilities.
That probably restricts its practical use to mostly embedded and research-related software with minimal/custom UIs, and OSS, which can recompile its 3rd-party libraries. Intersect that set with the software that works with less than 4GB of data, AND uses enough pointer-heavy data structures to justify the added difficulty...
Yeah, even if it were well-known, I'm just not seeing a potential user base large enough to justify the maintenance overhead.

--
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Re:Anyone have statistics? by Cassini2 · 2018-12-12 16:09 · Score: 1

Another issue is that if you know for certain that you have a 32-bit program that will always be a 32-bit program, then why wouldn't you make it a 32-bit program compatible with almost every 32-bit version of Linux out there?
When it launched, the people with 64-bit processors were purchasing them because they could reliably access more than 2 GB of RAM in user-space. Most of the operating systems and hardware architectures had configurations where the top 2 GB of RAM was reserved for operating system use. Sometime versions of operating systems permitted 3GB of user-space RAM. It was almost impossible to utilize a full 4GB of RAM on a 32-bit processor.
This created a hunger. If you have a program that might need more than 2 GB of RAM some point in the future, then 64-bit is the way to go.
Not much has changed since the 64-bit processors launched. If you have programs that will only require 32-bits, then the standard proven x86 and ARM architectures are the way to go. This applies in embedded systems too. In embedded, you want a well-proven tool chain.
If you have an intensively used data structure that is less than 2 GB in size, then it can often be represented as an 32-bit index into an array. This compiles cleanly with both 32-bit and 64-bit compilers. With the hardware support on modern processors, it has about the same execution speed as using 32-bit pointers.
This leaves the x32 ABI supporting non-price sensitive programs that need the speed of a 64-bit processor, do not have data structures that can be represented as an arrays, will not need 64-bits, and run on specific hardware/software stacks. It is a niche market at best. I imagine someone has used it for something, but it is hard to envision an application specifically requires the x32 ABI. For a 32-bit application, the 386 instruction set is good enough.
Re:Anyone have statistics? by _merlin · 2018-12-12 21:41 · Score: 1

Your argument is somewhat true for the majority of RISC processors, although you may be able to use full 64-bit registers if you know you're running on a 64-bit RISC CPU in 32-bit mode (it depends on whether the OS will save the full 64-bit register contents for a 32-bit process on context switch). This is useful if you're doing stuff like fixed-point maths where being able to work on twice as many bits at once is a big win, especially for multiplication and division. But for the most part, 64-bit versions of RISC CPUs largely work like their 32-bit predecessors, just with bigger registers (yes, AArch64 is an exception, being very much not ARM).
There are factors peculiar to x86 that make x32 a much bigger win than you might think. The 32-bit x86 instruction set has very few architectural registers, doesn't support PC-relative addressing, and is not orthogonal. Firstly, this means that for any computationally-heavy code you spend a lot of instructions spilling and reloading registers. Even with rename registers, this consumes decode/issue/retire bandwidth and increases the image size, which consumes memory bandwidth. Lack of PC-relative addressing makes position-independent code a lot less efficient than it would be otherwise (think shared libraries and ASLR). This means that computationally expensive code typically gains 20% to 30% performance just by targeting x86-64 rather than i686, even if it would never need a large addressable space.
Re:Anyone have statistics? by Immerman · 2018-12-13 03:50 · Score: 1

An x32 program is NOT a 32 bit program though. It's a 64bit program using a 32-bit address space.
I think _merlin covered the high points of the distinction. Basically it seems x32 combines the performance advantages of both x86 and x64, for a specific subclass of programs that don't need more than 4GB of memory or access to proprietary 3rd party libraries.
And yes, you could possibly use 32 bit indexing instead of pointers in some situations, but that means you can't use polymorphism, have to write your own memory handlers if anything will ever be "delete"d, probably need to pre-allocate all the data space you might possibly need (or used a paged array, but that comes with additional performance overhead), and need to leave all of your data accessible to all aspects of your program. Not an ideal solution.

--
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2018-12-12 02:16 · Score: 2, Insightful

Comment removed based on user account deletion

x32? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:17 · Score: -1

Ho.He?.Shut.Er.Down.Shut.Er.Down.We.Pay.For.No.Wall.For.x86.Shut.Er.Down.

How to use "several"? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:22 · Score: 0

This is entirely unrelated to the topic, but I have been wondering about it for quite some while. I'm not a native English speaker, so this is an honest question and not an attempt to make fun of something!

My understanding is that several in some way implies that something is a bit more, or took longer time, than expected. Or that it is equivalent to "quite a few".

But now and then I see the word several used as above, "It was just several years ago" or "Only several days left". Also from native English speakers.
Is that correct, and my understanding of the word wrong?

Re:How to use "several"? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:29 · Score: 0

It means "more than two but less than ten".
Re:How to use "several"? by pahles · 2018-12-12 02:32 · Score: 1

http://bfy.tw/IIU

--
Sig?
Re:How to use "several"? by jfdavis668 · 2018-12-12 02:34 · Score: 1

Several refers to a small count of some group of items. "Few" is a similar word. "Several years" could refer to anything from 2-10 years in conversation. It does not imply less or more than something else. You could say "it took several years more than expected" if you are referring to something taking a longer time. But, it is still referring to a small quantity of years. You could also say it took several years less than expected" if it happened faster than the estimated amount of time.
Re: How to use "several"? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:35 · Score: 0

Mmmm, close
I feel that several is more than a couple, something like a few, but less than many.
Re:How to use "several"? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:35 · Score: 0

"several" is more than one but not a huge amount.
"Several days ago" sort of implies somewhere between 2 and 6. More than one, less than a week. Certainly not months and years. It's vague.
Think of it like "a few".
Re:How to use "several"? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:40 · Score: 0

"Several" is typically used to express an amount greater than "a few" but less than "many".
Re:How to use "several"? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:42 · Score: 0

Of course I have googled it. But it is very hard to find a conclusive answer.
As example, this stackexchange answer contradicts all answers here...
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/21418/is-it-bad-to-combine-only-and-several
Re:How to use "several"? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:43 · Score: 0

Wait until you see the bizarre uses for the word "anymore".
Re:How to use "several"? by BringsApples · 2018-12-12 02:55 · Score: 1

"One" is 1
"A couple" is 2
"A few" is 3 or 4 (in some cases, 5)
"Several" is 5 6 7 8 or 9
"A bunch" is the normal amount of something plus an additional .25% - .50%
"A lot" is the normal amount of something x2
"A shitload" is the normal amount of something x10
"A fuckload" is the normal amount of something x10 and you're drunk.

--
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
Re:How to use "several"? by BringsApples · 2018-12-12 02:56 · Score: 1

Woops, "A bunch" is the normal amount of something plus an additional 25% - 50%

--
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
Re: How to use "several"? by UnknowingFool · 2018-12-12 03:23 · Score: 1

Can you relate that in the standard slashdot unit of measure, the Library of Congress (LOC)? :)

--
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Re:How to use "several"? by bigdavex · 2018-12-12 03:28 · Score: 1

"It was just several years ago" or "Only several days left".
As a native English speaker, those examples both make my ears bleed, so I think I agree with your point. Several doesn't just mean a specific range of numbers, but also that the speaker wants to convey that, in this context, that number is many or greater than expectation.

--
-Dave
Re:How to use "several"? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 03:36 · Score: 0

Yes, that's a good explanation - several's meaning is colloquially tightly coupled with a value outside
of predetermined / expected measurable parameters. A simple (minded) example is something like -
"He had several wives." -- meaning he should have had only one, maybe two. Basically, the word "several"
is an indeterminate count - to see if it make sense in usage, replace it with a number -- "He had seven wives."
When "only" is used w/several, generally it emphasizes the exception that the word "several" is used to describe --
"He has only won several awards for science." It's informal, and really best tied to a "topic sentence."
CAP === 'plaster'
Re:How to use "several"? by jdschulteis · 2018-12-12 03:39 · Score: 1

As others have answered, "several" in this context means a vague small number.
I'd like to point out that when writing up a news article, the author should have taken several minutes to look up exactly how long ago the X32 ABI was introduced.
"It was just six years ago..."
Re:How to use "several"? by aitikin · 2018-12-12 03:42 · Score: 1

Obligatory xkcd

--
"Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
Re:How to use "several"? by XanC · 2018-12-12 04:18 · Score: 1

You're right that this usage is weird. The other posters are correct about what number range the word "several" might represent, but they're ignoring its connotation. You're exactly correct that it has the sense of "more than expected".
"There are still several years left", or "This established feature has been there for several years" all make sense. "It was just several years ago" does not make sense.
Re:How to use "several"? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 04:27 · Score: 0

No, you got it rong the first time...
CAP === 'antidote'

Yay Hugs! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 02:35 · Score: 0

Hugs for all.

Missed a verb there by GreyWanderingRogue · 2018-12-12 02:46 · Score: 5, Funny

Linus Torvalds is in favor of sunsetting x32 and many other upstream contributors in favor of seeing it deprecated and removed

It looks like you missed a verb there. Either that, or Slashdot has finally come across something everyone on Slashdot can agree is "News for Nerds." One nerd attempting to assassinate a group of nerds certainly meets every possible meaning of "News for Nerds."

Re:Missed a verb there by Zocalo · 2018-12-12 03:29 · Score: 1

On the plus side, "sunsetting" is clearly a lot of progress compared to some of Linus' previous LKML putdowns so clearly that timeout has had the intended effect in getting "some assistance on how to understand people's emotions and respond appropriately." "Sunsetting" almost sounds like it would be pleasant experience, maybe with cocktails or something...

--
UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
Re: Missed a verb there by jd · 2018-12-12 03:35 · Score: 2

Worked for Reiser. Ish.

--
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)

Just do it by Artem+S.+Tashkinov · 2018-12-12 02:48 · Score: 1

How many people use it? 50? 500? I see no reason for it to exist. It's not like Open Source has too much manpower to afford supporting a queer architecture barely used by anyone.

Re: Just do it by UnknowingFool · 2018-12-12 03:29 · Score: 1

Yeah I'm not sure of what the justification was to create it. The only scenario I can see is that for a short while some systems like ARM had to use it while transitioning to full 64-bit and needed a stopgap where the hardware could handle 64-bit but not all the systems were ready for it.

--
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Re:Just do it by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 03:46 · Score: -1

It's been developed and tested and deployed. There's no maintenance except to ensure
that some stupid f**k a**h*** doesn't come along and break it for no good reason.
Oops - I meant to say some well-meaning sensitive C++ snowflake coder. Gotta watch my CoC!
Removing it may break things unexpectedly -- there's no good technical reason to remove it.
Hugs and XXXs! Linux Love Lorever!!!
CAP === 'compose'
Re:Just do it by Artem+S.+Tashkinov · 2018-12-12 05:45 · Score: 2

Now I see who's downvoting me.
x32 has never been deployed by any known company in any measurable quantities. And yes, Linux kernel architecture do require maintenance. In short your entire comment is invalid. Perhaps, you've mistaken x32 for something else (most ./ readers don't understand the difference between x86 and x32 - the latter is a completely different beast).
Also, no commercial/proprietary software exists for x32.
Re:Just do it by Artem+S.+Tashkinov · 2018-12-12 05:49 · Score: 2

I also have to not that x32 was created as a sort of experiment. It has gained almost no traction anywhere and it's not really used by anyone aside from Gentoo/LFS lovers.
Re:Just do it by Aighearach · 2018-12-12 09:58 · Score: 1

Hey, there, some fucking asshole here to point out that if I, or some other embedded programmer ever actually needs to use this shit we don't need OS support for it. There is absolutely no good reason to get these types of features in the OS. If I can't fit linux on the platform, I don't want to compile it smaller; I can't fit my app in either in that case. When you hit that sort of wall, you need to either spend more money on hardware, or quit trying to use a fat OS like linux.
Linux is a great server OS, but it actually sucks as an embedded OS; it is optimized for throughput, which gives benefits when you have a fatter system. The only reason that it is used a lot on "embedded" systems is because those a are larger systems that simply have a different UI than a desktop. It is great for that. But it sucks when you're resource-constrained.
Re: Just do it by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-14 06:20 · Score: 0

Intel atom. 64 bit processors with a hardware limit of 2GB of ram, being sold as a low power server. x32 is a nice idea for that situation, since it reduces memory use by up to 30%. The speed difference is noticeable in x86 vs x32 applications on atom.
I use it on all of my vultr vps servers, because there's literally no reason not to. Better performance than 686, lower memory footprint than amd64, so I don't have to pay for more than 1gb of ram on any of my 80 vps setups for my clients.
The fact that nobody else is bothering to use this doesn't mean it's not incredibly useful, it just means no distros added it since it's "experimental"
The number of people here that don't even know what it is amazes me.

x32 is a good idea that needs a more love by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 03:11 · Score: 0

What this needs to be viable is a good set of utilities. For starters, all the basic command line things that won't need more than 4GB anyway, like uniq, grep, ifconfig, that sort of thing. I'd probably add a "lite" libC like musl, since it'll be targeted at embedded stuff also. Do that, and you have a powerful mix at the ready for embedded support, that's perfectly fine to also use normally on the desktop. And gnu libc is hopelessly bloated anyway, could use a good cleaning.

The comment that it's a drag to support... well, make it less of a drag. That'd be good for any ABI, architecture, and so on.

Good excuse to finally work on a decent ifconfig while at it. Like the netbsd/freebsd one, that lets you do *everything* to an interface that can be done to an interface. No, the alternatives don't cut it, because they're confused in concept. ifconfig the idea is clear. ifconfig the implementation in linux sucks. The linux alternatives to ifconfig suck both in concept and in implementation, and still require that zoo of "helper" utilities that a decent ifconfig wouldn't need.

I do something like it in my hosts engine by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 03:23 · Score: 0

See subject: Hostnames have a maxsize of 255 characters in length so by using shortstring vs. string it keeps vars on the local stack vs. the global heap (this performs closer to the CPU memory layers in L1/L2/L3/L4 caches vs. system RAM & yes, it performs faster).

Same thing is used for smallint/short vs. int var types & again - it performs FASTER.

* This is something programmers can do for "hand-optimization" but be DAMN SURE nothing you use exceeds the smaller sizes used OR you may run into problems/bugs...

APK

P.S.=> I see the point of it IF you want to get the utmost in performance out of a program - I do it myself & it works - & in a PRETTY SIMILAR way (except this sounds more like pointer-sizes to me, correct me IF I am "off/wrong" on that last part)... apk

Re:I do something like it in my hosts engine by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 03:42 · Score: 0

You should seek a mental health professional.
Re: I do something like it in my hosts engine by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 06:16 · Score: 0

REPOSTED 2nd time to exhaust the LIMITED abused DOWNMODPOINT of an obviously OBSESSED psychotic LOON that STALKS me constantly & downmods me projecting his MENTAL issues here https://linux.slashdot.org/com... off topic.
You seem to think that only one user is responsible for modding you down, and you imply they're abusing their mod points. Hypothetically, let's assume that's true.
You've been modded down a lot and have repeated this claim for years. Let's say that one user is responsible for all of this as you think.
Those moderations are subject to metamoderation. Let's assume the user consistently modded down your posts, but other Slashdot users thought your posts were good. That user would fare poorly in metamoderation, since most Slashdot users would disagree with their use of mod points. It wouldn't take too long for Slashdot to identify that user as a bad moderator, and to prevent them from receiving more mod points.
You've been complaining about moderation for a long time. If this is the work of a single user, they must continue to receive mod points regularly. That only works if their use of mod points is rated favorably by metamoderation. That means, of course, that many other Slashdot users also think your posts should be modded down. Alternatively, this could be the work of many users modding you down because your posts are widely considered to be of low quality.
Re: I do something like it in my hosts engine by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 08:58 · Score: 0

APK has an account with every free VPN he can find and lots of sockpuppets. SAD.

Damnit, Linus! by DontBeAMoran · 2018-12-12 03:26 · Score: 1

How else will I run Linux on my SEGA Genesis?

Oh wait, x32, not 32X.

Carry on.

--
#DeleteFacebook

Re:Damnit, Linus! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 04:05 · Score: 0

You can at least run it on your Dreamcast

The correct approach by jd · 2018-12-12 03:27 · Score: 1

Is surely to provide a better abstraction layer.

I should not have to care if x32, DEC or the Prime Radiant are supported by the kernel admins. Patches should largely just work with minimal hacking.

In turn, it should not be such hard work to maintain code. Different systems have different ways to achieve the same thing with different optimizations possible.

All of that can be stuck in helper code, well almost all, which means there is far less maintenance.

This is not esoteric wisdom, its the basis behind all abstraction layers and the arch directory.

If there's a problem, it's because the job is half done.

Remove support only if nobody is stuck without it and it's trivial for users to add if they do need it.

--
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)

brain farts by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 03:36 · Score: 0

How else will I run Linux on my SEGA Genesis?

Oh wait, x32, not 32X.

Carry on.

this is the essential slashdot post, a pure brain fart, a true demonstration of the intelligence of this scene

But by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 03:40 · Score: 0

You can still get new laptops with 4gig

Clearing Space for Next-Gen Linux Features ... by Seven+Spirals · 2018-12-12 03:53 · Score: -1, Troll

Hey, sounds like something Linux would do. Here are some other ideas for the new-school Linux children. 1. Drop support for any text configuration file. Go full binary registry. Hell, make it an SQL database that has to start before the system can boot. 2. Convert all log files to encrypted binary files. Just making them binary wasn't good enough. 3. Disable all support for shell scripting. Only Python scripting is allowed now so that you can get the joy of tracebacks for everything you do. 4. Disable pipes and redirection since Unix gurus just make other people feel dumb with them. Who needs that? 5. Bring WINE into the kernel and natively start supporting DLLs. 6. Disable RPM in favor of MSI installers. You gotta have that built-in GUI, brah!

Weird syscalls, but surely still workable by Etcetera · 2018-12-12 03:56 · Score: 1

Here's the LKML post that kicked it off, if you don't want to click through: https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/12/10/1145

I think his point #2 is probably the most "nutty", but that really does seem like an implementation detail:

2. The way that system calls work is very strange. Most syscalls on
x32 enter through their *native* (i.e. not COMPAT_SYSCALL_DEFINE)
entry point, and this is intentional. For example, adjtimex() uses
the native entry, not the compat entry, because x32's struct timex
matches the x86_64 layout. But a handful of syscalls have separate
entry points -- these are the syscalls starting at 512. These enter
through the COMPAT_SYSCALL_DEFINE entry points.
The x32 syscalls that are *not* in the 512 range violate all semblance
of kernel syscall convention. In the syscall handlers,
in_compat_syscall() returns true, but the COMPAT_SYSCALL_DEFINE entry
is not invoked. This is nutty and risks breaking things when people
refactor their syscall implementations. And no one tests these
things. Similarly, if someone calls any of the syscalls below 512 but
sets bit 31 in RAX, then the native entry will be called with
in_compat_set().

x32 support removal is the kind of thing that should be thought long and hard about, because it's the kind of thing that will be nearly impossible to put back in once it's removed. Abstraction layers and edge cases keep us (and the kernel devs) honest, and have some value even if the number of users is small. Additionally, this seems like a classic case of chicken-and-egg with a lesser-used arch variation. Perhaps actual *publicity* after it was put in 6 years ago would have helped; perhaps this story itself will prompt more use.

--
Hire a Linux system administrator, systems engineer,

Re:Weird syscalls, but surely still workable by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 04:07 · Score: 0

I think his point about the syscalls is perfectly valid.
My solution would be to try to fix the syscall mess. That said, if no one is using X32 or willing to maintain it, then remove it.
If someone is willing to step up, then leave it in.
Re:Weird syscalls, but surely still workable by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 04:34 · Score: 0

I think x32 needs to be rebuilt solely in userspace. The kernel shouldn't be able to tell an x32 process from an x64 process except for the process loader if rational design had been followed.

I do something like it in my hosts engine by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 03:57 · Score: -1

See subject: Hostnames have a maxsize of 255 characters in length so by using shortstring vs. string it keeps vars on the local stack vs. the global heap (this performs closer to the CPU memory layers in L1/L2/L3/L4 caches vs. system RAM & yes, it performs faster).

Same thing is used for smallint/short vs. int var types & again - it performs FASTER.

* This is something programmers can do for "hand-optimization" but be DAMN SURE nothing you use exceeds the smaller sizes used OR you may run into problems/bugs...

REPOSTED vs. the obvious LOON that STALKS me constantly & downmods me projecting his MENTAL issues here https://linux.slashdot.org/com...

APK

P.S.=> I see the point of it IF you want to get the utmost in performance out of a program - I do it myself & it works - & in a PRETTY SIMILAR way (except this sounds more like pointer-sizes to me, correct me IF I am "off/wrong" on that last part)... apk

Speak for yourself you STALKER whacko by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 04:01 · Score: -1

Speak for yourself you STALKER whacko: It makes me lmao I can just repost again & exhaust you of "downmodpoints" you useless off topic obviously "touched-in-the-head" OBSESSED lunatic https://linux.slashdot.org/com...

* Yes, I made SURE to point out you're a nutcase in the repost too.

APK

P.S.=> You're not only a whacko nutjob but you're ALSO a total weezil coward "hiding" from me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts - you're disgusting & contemptible (& I think even YOU know that about yourself, creep)... apk

Re:Speak for yourself you STALKER whacko by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 06:35 · Score: 0

Hey Hey APK! How many coins did you mine today? None from me as I don't run your bit mining engine.

Thanks - you answered a point of mine for me by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 04:04 · Score: 0

See subject & https://linux.slashdot.org/com... on pointer size there...

APK

P.S.=> "Onwards & UPWARDS"... apk

Kudos to _merlin (160982) per my "query" by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 04:07 · Score: -1

Kudos to _merlin (160982) per my "query" on this being more pointer-size oriented as I suspected https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & he seems to have clarified it for me...

APK

P.S.=> As I said there to him thanking him? "Onwards & UPWARDS"... apk

musl libc has supported it for years. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 04:07 · Score: 1

As far as I know their support is feature complete, outside of bugs in the toolchain/kernel.

Personally all these 'lets delete xxx feature' discussions and removals is just making the linux kernel LESS interesting, while the major fuckups and bugs in the kernel are mostly in new, stupid, overengineered code that wasn't well thought out to begin with.

x32 from everything I hear has some shortcomings, but at the same time has been the proof of concept for all the other 32 on 64 bit ABI attempts made. Furthermore if they are fucking around with the syscall interface often enough for it to affect ABI compatibility, maybe they should be taking a hard look at their own development practices instead of those of other developers.

Correct lgw (used it in function/proc calls) by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 04:15 · Score: -1

Correct lgw (used it in function/proc calls) in https://linux.slashdot.org/com... where in Windows @ least, the 32-bit version of my program had a LIMIT of 8 "register" (C++ analog to "fastcall" function/proc pointers) & the 64-bit model could have up to 16 of them!

* Yes - it makes a difference on repeatedly called functions/procs & ESPECIALLY "workhorse" ones that AFTER I "hand-profiled" my code!

(Where to profile, I do 'oldschool' methods of registering hi-res multimedia timers in my code, checking time taken in each in repeated runs, recording it & then applying register to ones that take the MOST time &/or DO THE MOST WORK (especially IF/when repeatedly called (no recursion types in this program though)).

APK

P.S.=> Interesting thread/article here on /. today - refreshing & back to "old-school slashdot" imo (better than POLITICAL or "SJW" articles that have been hitting this place the past year or so now)... apk

Re:Correct lgw (used it in function/proc calls) by lgw · 2018-12-12 04:20 · Score: 1

Interesting thread/article here on /. today - refreshing & back to "old-school slashdot" imo (better than POLITICAL or "SJW" articles that have been hitting this place the past year or so now)... apk
Yeah, fewer and fewer real articles between the clickbait, but those few are still interesting.

--
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.

Clickbait perhaps but the truth of it, imo? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 04:30 · Score: -1, Offtopic

See subject: They're to "further someone's agenda" ala "Climate Change" bs (which I think is natural/cyclical & mankind can't DO that much vs. it - no, doesn't HURT to try & be more efficient + "good to nature" though) - for example, take Al Gore (conman imo): He talks "save energy" but has some compound or home that BURNS like 1/2 the energy consumption where it's located (statewide) from what I've heard...

* What a HYPOCRITE conman - preaching "do as I say, NOT as I do"...

APK

P.S.=> The SCUM takes what's BEST in your as a human being civilized dutiful person & USE IT AGAINST YOU for their own greed/ends/profit (like "for the children" OR organized religion (yes, I believe in an almighty creative spirit & I think it loves us but I DO NOT BELIEVE IN MEN CREATED "GOD" TO MANIPULATE US) - which I gave up on - they use it to STIR THE MASSES to wars etc. like CHUMPS - the "opiate of the masses" alright - "thou shalt not kill" but the "CONTROLLERS" do THAT, everyday)... apk

Re: Clickbait perhaps but the truth of it, imo? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 05:23 · Score: 0

So, just because Al Gore is wasteful in his energy consunption, the thousands of climatologists who contributed to the IPCC assessment reports must also be wrong? This is idiotic, even for you.
Please do tell what natural processes could explain the rapid warming over the past few decades. I'd like to know.
As for religion, anyone who has read your posts here knows exactly what god you worship.
Re: Clickbait perhaps but the truth of it, imo? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 06:15 · Score: 0

We know why you snowflakes don't like it getting warmer. You melt faster than you do already under the pressure of life.
Re: Clickbait perhaps but the truth of it, imo? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 22:30 · Score: 0

What was it you said? Oh, that's right
"Article topic isn't global warming so get on topic OR just go away pest. " - apk
You're such a paranoid hypocritical weirdo

Same was done with IPX... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 04:52 · Score: 0

And a lot of older features in *MINOR* releases, which at this point they are apparently pushing at 10 per year, making it hard for people to keep up with features they care about. Especially if they standardize on an older stable kernel and don't bother checking the lists because all the new feature work and regressions seem full retard and they are waiting for things to stabilize again.

Personally I'm looking at what it would take to get a linux kernel fork going, CoC free, with legacy features and a a series of standardized formal ABIs versioned for new driver development and deprecation support (But at the source level never removed. If something becomes insecure but is relied upon by code which hasn't been forward ported, you keep it boxed in somewhere for that poor sod of a developer who needs to forward port other code later and needs both the original implementation and the new implementation to test against, something linux has been notorious for not supporting, which in part is responsible for some of the half baked amateurism in glibc that made it such a clusterfuck of badly implemented features over the years (certain 'leaders' didn't help, but there were flaws at both kernel and library level.)

x32 by ledow · 2018-12-12 05:00 · Score: 1

I tend to find that oddball intermediate layers like this die off rather quickly. In terms of "when I'd heard of it" to "when its death is proposed", this one is really quite quick.

I'm surprised that x86 is still supported, let alone an oddball "64-bit processor with 32-bit pointers" hybrid setup. Surely even x86 is only more for legacy and embedded chipsets, nowadays, where I can't imagine that x32 would help at all.

Either your chip is 64-bit capable, or not. If it is, even if there are minor advantages to running it in 32-bit mode, when there is COMPLETE and total support for 64-bit mode, it seems a nonsense not to use it. If it's not, then the question is moot anyway.

It's not like ARM or Intel of old where all the previous chips used 32-bit, then they supported 64-bit but people didn't get on board with it for a while. It's people with full-64-bit support, that can run either full 64-bit or full 32-bit, but choose to use an oddball and barely-supported middle ground because... well.. they don't want to use 64-bit pointers and use a little more memory.

It's like running your 80386 in 8086 mode. It may have been useful for a short period of time in the transition when the new hardware was expensive but the old software was more expensive to replace, but it'll die off and you'll never use it again. Except, in this case, it's wanting to use the 80386 chip features in a machine, but in such a way that it can only address 1Mb of RAM. Not even "use the 80386 as an 8086" but literally "I want to use the extra processor registers but not the full 4Gb of RAM, just the first Mb".

And in an era where 64-bit hardware has been the norm for nearly 2 decades now.

I do something like it in my hosts engine by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 05:26 · Score: 0

See subject: Hostnames have a maxsize of 255 characters in length so by using shortstring vs. string it keeps vars on the local stack vs. the global heap (this performs closer to the CPU memory layers in L1/L2/L3/L4 caches vs. system RAM & yes, it performs faster).

Same thing is used for smallint/short vs. int var types & again - it performs FASTER.

* This is something programmers can do for "hand-optimization" but be DAMN SURE nothing you use exceeds the smaller sizes used OR you may run into problems/bugs... compiler messages & warnings are your pal here vs. that too.

REPOSTED 2nd time to exhaust the LIMITED abused DOWNMODPOINT of an obviously OBSESSED psychotic LOON that STALKS me constantly & downmods me projecting his MENTAL issues here https://linux.slashdot.org/com... off topic.

APK

P.S.=> I see the point of it IF you want to get the utmost in performance & EFFICIENCY out of a program - I do it myself & it works - & in a PRETTY SIMILAR way (except this sounds more like pointer-sizes to me, correct me IF I am "off/wrong" on that last part (Kudos to _merlin (160982) per my "query" here now https://linux.slashdot.org/com... )... apk

Al Gore & conmen like him = hypocrites by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 05:30 · Score: -1

Al Gore & conmen like him = hypocrites via "Do NOT as I do but as I say" well, PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH THEN, conman!

* It's THAT simple - or are you too "thick" in the skull to "get it"?

(Apparently, you are)

The ice age happened. Then the planet warmed again. The TRUE cause? Who knows but it IS a proven cycle that occurred. EAT YOUR WORDS.

APK

P.S.=> Nature wasn't kind to you in intelligence... apk

Re: Al Gore & conmen like him = hypocrites by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 05:50 · Score: 0

It's pretty clear you don't understand the issues.
The Earth receives a certain amount of incoming solar radiation, called the solar constant, even though it varies over time. The Earth also radiates outgoing longwave radiation (OLR) and approximates a blackbody. The system is generally in equilibrium, where insolation equals the OLR. Hotter objects radiate more energy, and the Stefan-Boltzmann Law describes this for a blackbody. It's simple to calculate what the temperature of the Earth needs to be for the OLR (predicted by the Stefan-Boltzmann Law) to equal the amount of insolation. The Earth needs to have a global average temperature of 255K, or about -18 degrees C.
The global average temperature is actually around 288K, or roughly 15 degrees C. This is because of the greenhouse effect, in which some of the OLR is trapped by the atmosphere rather than escaping to space. To compensate for the greenhouse effect, the Earth must be hotter than 255K. That means the amount of OLR increases, so enough of it gets through the atmosphere and escapes to space to equal the amount of insolation.
If you have a stronger greenhouse effect, that means a lower proportion of the OLR radiated from the surface actually escapes to space. To compensate, the Earth must warm even more, to maintain the aforementioned equilibrium. Greenhouse gas concentrations are increasing, and most of the increase after the industrial revolution is driven by human activity. While an increase in insolation would also cause warming, and the solar constant does change over time, that's not driving the warming over the past few decades. If anything, solar output has declined slightly, but it hasn't changed that much.
So, yes, human activity is driving the warming over the past few decades. Insult me if you must, but that won't change the physics involved.
Re: Al Gore & conmen like him = hypocrites by lgw · 2018-12-12 06:51 · Score: 1, Interesting

So, yes, human activity is driving the warming over the past few decades. Insult me if you must, but that won't change the physics involved.
You gave a nice middle-school level Earth Science description of how global warming works, but you gave no evidence for this claim. Obviously, human activity affects the climate, the question is: just how much, exactly?
If you look a bit deeper into the science you'll find it's all about feedback loops. The amount of CO2 in our atmosphere wouldn't amount to much warming without positive feedback loops. There are also negative feedback loops, and it's all poorly understood, which is while climate science is an actual science where original work is happening. If it were all so clear, it wouldn't be a field of study.
Just to start: almost all of the greenhouse* effect comes from water vapor. The atmosphere is effectively saturated, so the key is how much water can the air hold at a given temperature. Warmer air holds more water, so positive feedback. But wait, more clouds increases the Earth's albedo, so negative feedback. This also is why no climate (or weather) model is meaningful without modeling the oceans (ocean temps matter a heck of a lot).
*"Greenhouse" effect is a stupid name. Greenhouses work by letting in light and blocking convective losses (and limiting conductive too, in anything modern). Glass trapping outgoing IR barely matters.

--
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Re: Al Gore & conmen like him = hypocrites by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 09:44 · Score: 0

The model I provided is simple but effective in explaining the impact of the greenhouse effect at a global scale. It doesn't predict how much the temperature will rise given a particular greenhouse gas concentration, but it's useful for giving a simple explanation. It's actually a simple model of the climate system at a global scale that is used in college classes on the topic. Of course, far more detailed models are discussed later in the semester.
About carbon dioxide, it's not a particularly potent greenhouse gas, but it has a very long residence time in the atmosphere compared to water vapor. That's why it matters. Methane has a relatively long residence time relative to water vapor, but is also far more potent than carbon dioxide. The residence time of these gases is important in assessing their overall effects.
Clouds are more complicated than your post describes. They do increase albedo, but they also reduce outgoing longwave radiation. On a clear, windless night with snow cover, all other things equal, it's going to be colder under clear skies rather than cloudy skies. It's important to take into account when and where the clouds occur.
As for the issue of feedbacks, positive feedbacks are primarily involve reducing the albedo and increasing the greenhouse effect. Warming due to more carbon dioxide and methane might melt snow and ice cover, resulting in a lower albedo in some areas. The warming would also, as you note, probably increase the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere. Our mitigation strategies do a pretty good job of identifying how negative feedbacks would operate. One of the feedbacks involves reducing the amount of solar radiation that is absorbed, either through scattering more of it in the atmosphere or increasing the albedo. The other obvious feedback is an increase in the rate at which greenhouse gases are removed from the atmosphere.
The climate system is metastable, otherwise a small forcing could produce runaway climate change. Instead, the climate system tends to oscillate around an equilibrium, and the negative feedbacks are large enough to restore the equilibrium if the forcing isn't too large. Otherwise, the climate system may move to a different equilibrium, and this is where tipping points are involved. Provided the climate system doesn't reach a tipping point, I suspect the current equilibrium would be restored. However, some of the processes involved operate on sufficiently long time scales that there would still be a significant disruption in the climate system. The feedbacks that restore equilibrium in the climate system are important and significant, no doubt. But if they take a long time relative to the initial forcing and positive feedbacks, that still allows for substantial climate change in the short term.
Regarding the responsibility for the recent warming, I'll offer two hypotheses: man-made greenhouse gases and changes in solar output. If the solar output is the main factor, we would expect to see solar output increase to coincide with the warming. In reality, it's remained steady, if not slightly decreasing. However, the greenhouse gases concentrations continue to increase, and do a better job of explaining the observed warming.
Re: Al Gore & conmen like him = hypocrites by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 09:49 · Score: 0

We know why you snowflakes don't like it getting warmer. You'd melt faster than you do already under the pressure of life if it gets warmer!
Re: Al Gore & conmen like him = hypocrites by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 15:06 · Score: 0

Feedbacks are critical, yes, and we would absolutely ignore CO2 if it weren't for them. However, it's important to note that there is a hard limit on the lower bound, regardless of what's going on with the water cycle. The key effect of increasing CO2 is that it pushes the CO2-rich layer further out into space. There isn't any H2O up there, or very much else for that matter, so whatever cumulative effect it has, it cannot be occurring at the edge of space. Pushing the CO2-rich layer further out directly increases the average path length for photons exiting the Earth. This *must* cause warming, and the amount of warming can be calculated more-or-less directly. Doubling the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere *must* cause at least 3.7 W/m^2 of warming, per thermodynamics.
Re: Al Gore & conmen like him = hypocrites by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 16:41 · Score: 0

"You gave a nice middle-school level Earth Science description of how global warming works, but you gave no evidence for this claim."
Uhh, that was more college-level, but I'd bet you didn't attend such a high level of educational institution.
~Geologist
Re: Al Gore & conmen like him = hypocrites by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-13 02:46 · Score: 0

I'm sorry that what you learned in college is what I learned in middle school. Hope they didn't charge too much.
Re: Al Gore & conmen like him = hypocrites by lgw · 2018-12-13 02:54 · Score: 1

Regarding the responsibility for the recent warming, I'll offer two hypotheses: man-made greenhouse gases and changes in solar output. If the solar output is the main factor, we would expect to see solar output increase to coincide with the warming. In reality, it's remained steady, if not slightly decreasing. However, the greenhouse gases concentrations continue to increase, and do a better job of explaining the observed warming.
You're familiar with the ice core data from Vostok et al? The clockwork regularity of the 100k year cycle is clearly solar. And yet, 10k years ago the clock broke, and the glaciers did not return. Why not? No one knows, but solar output remaining steady is a glaring anomaly.
The past 10k years of relative climate stability are unique in the past million-ish years that we have data for. Good thing too, as it's what allowed humans to become technological.
To me, the biggest question is where would the climate be heading without human activity. Solar models are even more primitive than climate models, so no one has a clue, but it's the most important question. Glaciers are a far worse threat than warming, at least to us humans, but they're already 10k years overdue, and just maybe the Quaternary Ice Age is ending, and it's going to get a lot warmer.

--
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.

Nooo! by ReneR · 2018-12-12 05:31 · Score: 2

Don't take the 10% advance away from me! :-/ https://t2sde.org/

Clickbait perhaps but the truth of it, imo? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 05:33 · Score: 0

See subject: They're to "further someone's agenda" ala "Climate Change" bs (which I think is natural/cyclical & mankind can't DO that much vs. it - no, doesn't HURT to try & be more efficient + "good to nature" though) - for example, take Al Gore (conman imo): He talks "save energy" but has some compound or home that BURNS like 1/2 the energy consumption where it's located (statewide) from what I've heard...

* What a HYPOCRITE conman - preaching "do as I say, NOT as I do"...

APK

P.S.=> The SCUM takes what's BEST in your as a human being civilized dutiful person & USE IT AGAINST YOU for their own greed/ends/profit (like "for the children" OR organized religion (yes, I believe in an almighty creative spirit & I think it loves us but I DO NOT BELIEVE IN MEN CREATING "GODS" TO MANIPULATE US) - which I gave up on - they use it to STIR THE MASSES to wars etc. like CHUMPS - the "opiate of the masses" alright - "thou shalt not kill" but the "CONTROLLERS" do THAT, everyday)... apk

It's VERY clear Al Gore = hypocrite conman by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 06:11 · Score: 0

Al Gore & conmen like him = hypocrites via "Do NOT as I do but as I say" well, PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH THEN, conman!

* It's THAT simple - or are you too "thick" in the skull to "get it"?

(Apparently, you are)

The ice age happened. Then the planet warmed again. The TRUE cause? Who knows but it IS a proven cycle that occurred. EAT YOUR WORDS (& does Al Gore & crew asking for money going to STOP that? No).

LASTLY You should LEARN TO READ - I said it's not a "bad thing" to be efficient & environmentally conscious here https://linux.slashdot.org/com...

APK

P.S.=> Nature wasn't kind to you in intelligence... apk

Re: It's VERY clear Al Gore = hypocrite conman by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 06:33 · Score: 2

Whether Al Gore is a conman or not has absolutely no effect on whether humans are causing global warming. Your argument is that the warming over the past few decades is due to natural variability, though you haven't a clue what kind of natural variability you're implicating. I explained the physical processes by which human activity is causing the Earth to warm. Rather than discuss the science, you replied with personal attacks and mostly copied and pasted your previous idiotic post. Most likely, you don't know a thing about how the climate system works, so personal attacks and mindless rhetoric are your tools of choice.
Just so you know, I'm a meteorologist. My field is closely related to climatology, and I have a good understanding of how the climate system works. I've actually run climate and weather models. I've presented my work at professional conferences and published in peer-reviewed journals. I've run numerical weather prediction models like WRF and CM1 on hundreds of cores to simulate processes in the atmosphere. Much of what I do focuses on processes within thunderstorms but I certainly do understand the climate system and have done a portion of my work in that area.
Since you don't provide any scientific arguments that can be discussed, what are your qualifications that merit trusting you about climate change? Please do tell.

"RoTfLmAo"... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 06:17 · Score: 0

See subject: THANK-YOU for a good laugh - that was a good one!

* :)

APK

P.S.=> Too bad this has meandered off topic but there ya are... apk

Re: "RoTfLmAo"... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 06:35 · Score: 0

And here we have APK posting anonymously to support himself, not signing the post, and then replying to his unsigned post to thank himself. You're a real piece of work.

LMAO - Look @ your "ReAcTioN", lol... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 06:25 · Score: 0

LMAO - Look @ your "ReAcTioN" - I love it ya "snowflakian being" (INFERIOR) doesn't LIKE being defied so I defy you.

* Go "Cry to MOMMY" ok - your "TaNtRuMz" have ZERO EFFECT on me & certainly won't STOP me... nothing stops me, but me (accept it, you can't).

APK

P.S.=> Lastly: I'm FAR from "complaining" (that's what you EFFETE "snowflakes" do) - I do something about it/take EFFECTIVE ACTION & get you to RUN DRY of your "downmodpoints" you abuse, easily - ESPECIALLY when I'm on topic & YOU ARE NOT snowflakian being (lol)... apk

Re: LMAO - Look @ your "ReAcTioN", lol... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 06:48 · Score: 1

Again, you are complaining about users modding you down. This certainly qualifies as complaining:

REPOSTED 2nd time to exhaust the LIMITED abused DOWNMODPOINT of an obviously OBSESSED psychotic LOON that STALKS me constantly & downmods me projecting his MENTAL issues here https://linux.slashdot.org/com... off topic.
Again, that is you complaining. By "take EFFECTIVE ACTION", you mean that you spam your posts that were previously modded down. You've admitted to that multiple times in this story.
It is logical that lots of users, almost certainly a large majority of readers, consider your posts to be of poor quality. That is why you are consistently modded to -1, and why numerous users have asked Slashdot for years to curtail your spam. You are simply incorrect when you say this is the work of a single "mental loon" because many more users would have to agree your posts are of low quality.
Why are you so obsessed with how your posts are moderated? That would not seem to be healthy. You've turned to posting cconspiracy theories that this is one user out to get you. You've recently started posting again about your obsession with whipslash and how you're still upset after two years that he modified the lameness filter to limit some of your spam.
Seek professional help.

Huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 06:35 · Score: 0

What on earth are you rambling about? Is there some special use case for 32-bit pointer support on a 64-bit OS that is near and dear to your heart? Or, do you not know what you are talking about?

Weak as usual UNIDENTIFIABLE anon stalker by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 06:44 · Score: 0

Dear UNIDENTIFIABLE ac stalker of me: My prog's no coinminer & /. laffs @ you "snowflakians" upset you https://linux.slashdot.org/com... obviously (look @ your "ReAcTioNz" hahaha which I point out here too that got ya "a wee bit 'hot'" hehehe https://linux.slashdot.org/com... )

* I do try to EMPATHIZE w/ "your kind" (the DEFECTIVE as gweihir calls you, OR as I call you usually, JEALOUS "Lil' Jowie" do-NOTHING "not-men" INFERIOR weezils that STALK me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous etc.).

LOOK - I know "your kind" (lol) has ALWAYS "thrown tantrumz" & MOMMY repsonds just to shut you up, but it doesn't work on me - & you certainly DO NOT LIKE IT as I rather EASILY dust & DEFY you gettting you to RUN DRY of your ABUSED 'downmodpoints', lol!

APK

P.S.=> You ought to be used to it by now I'd think, having done nothing of VALUE in your WASTED existence & LOSING (it's all "your kind" is 'good' @) - I love your type! Why? 1st - you're not in my way in life (too weak/lazy/stupid), no competition & 2nd - you ALWAYS make ME look GOOD & yourself STALKING me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous like the WEEZIL you are hahaha - thanks! apk

Re: Weak as usual UNIDENTIFIABLE anon stalker by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 06:55 · Score: 0

I saw your posts about religion earlier in the article. It's clear you worship a "god" because you believe you are god. You're a narcissist who worships himself.
Let me help you out. If there is an almighty being, he wouldn't live in a $1 house and angrily spam Slashdot all day, every day. Such a god would also do more useful things than write a hosts file engine. And if god wanted to create a hosts file engine on the side, he could have a Mac version ready very soon and wouldn't need to whine about someone else not being able to build it for him.
Seek help for your narcissistic personality disorder. Your NPD can be treated. But I will not provide positive reinforcement for your unhealthy behaviors.

LMAO - "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 06:52 · Score: 0

See subject: I didn't post that but TRUTH always made me LMAO & you project what you do obviously (like you are now too) but it sure "got a rise" outta ya, lol - funny stuff & PROBABLY very true!

* I see you're also DRY of "downmodpoints" again (hehehe) per "yours truly" EASILY defying you & showing you WHO IS BOSS (me) as always - you're SO easily manipulated - your "tell" is that you start posting & STALKING me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous PROJECTING your own methods in false accusations my way once you are DRY of 'downmodpoints'.

(You're easier to read than a book & TWICE as simple to "get a rise" out of)

APK

P.S.=> NOW, lastly - I can't HELP IT if I am laughing @ YOU & "your kind" after I read that post (you & your FELLOW 'snowflakian beings', lol - MELTING under the pressure of life already, a little GLOBAL WARMING only accelerates it - hence your "no global warming" bs GRUBBING for shekels)... apk

Re: LMAO - "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 11:36 · Score: 0

You weren't interested in discussing science, probably because you don't understand it. Unfortunately, you're far too arrogant to admit your ignorance. I can understand being ignorant, but at least have the intellectual honesty to admit you're ignorant. You couldn't get beyond complaining about Al Gore and repeatedly using the ad hominem logical fallacy. Despite your arrogance, you've exposed just how uneducated you are in this discussion.
After you got done exposing your ignorance, you couldn't stop there. Rather than stop digging a deeper hole for yourself, you had to cross the line of bigotry. You exposed your anti-semitic bigotry once again with your remark, 'hence your "no global warming" bs GRUBBING for shekels'. Unlike your pages-long spam post about Jews, you actually signed this bigotry with your initials so everyone can see what a bigot you are. There's no place for bigotry, and you know better than to post that. You should be ashamed of yourself for posting your comment about shekels.
Shame on you, Alexander Peter Kowalski! Shame! Shame! Shame! Shame! Shame!

I was on topic, you're not snowflake (lol)... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 06:58 · Score: -1

I was on topic, you're not snowflake (lol) but you ARE the expert on complaining (as are all "snowflakian beings' lol) mad I defy you & make you look like a FOOL - why be mad? You've been a fool all your life - I'd think you'd be USED to it, lol!

* STALKING me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts = MISSION ACCOMPLISHED as it's your "tell" I've gotten you to BLOW all your "downmodpoints" again as always - it is BIG FUN manipulating you to DANCE to my tune so easily you know.

Played YOU like a FIDDLE - well, not really - you played yourself, lol!

APK

P.S.=> OBSESSED? Why are YOU so "obsessed" w/ STALKING me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts & unjustly DOWNMODDING my post on TOPIC when you are not? JOWIE your JEALOUS is showing - that's your fault, not mine - like I said - I do things of value to others & society, you don't & IF you want to be mad? Be mad @ yourself for being what GWEIHIR CALLS YOUR KIND - defectives, lol... apk

Re: I was on topic, you're not snowflake (lol)... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 07:20 · Score: 0

One of the options for negative moderation is redundant. By definition, reposting your comments results in redundant posts. Why, then, should they not be moderated as redundant? How is it an abuse to moderate redundant posts to -1? I'd like to hear your explanation.

Repeat same mistake/expecting diff. result by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 07:31 · Score: -1

See subject: You're redundantly proving your INSANELY obsessed per my subject & STALKING me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts & I was ontopic. You're not & a butthurt psycho who OBVIOUSLY has something to HIDE (especially vs. me & I know what it is - I've DESTROYED YOU before, & SO BADLY you don't DARE expose YOUR registered 'lusername' to me so I can TOSS OUT THE REASON WHY you're still so "snowflakian butthurt" - it's SO obvious, lol).

* You really shouldn't TRY 'take me on' - I dust INFERIOR defectives (lol, thanks gweihir - love calling a "not man" like the one STALKING me now that) like you easily.

NOW - how YOU "ReActT" to it DANCING on my puppet strings & my tune I PLAY YOU WITH? That, is YOUR FAULT (& highly amusing, & SO predictable - makes me lmao daily).

APK

P.S.=> Don't CRY now complaining "Lil' snowflake" - you can post more SJW posts & get "upmodded" for MORE 'downmodpoints' tomorrow right? Don't worry , lol - I'll offend your "sensitive tender dick" weezil sensibilities (using fact vs. your bs offtopic) again & EXHAUST you of them as always, hahaha DEFYING you + easily NULLIFYING your wannabe 'weapon' in bogus downmods (when I was on topic, you're not, no less)... apk

Re: Repeat same mistake/expecting diff. result by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 08:47 · Score: 0

You were talking about climate change and how al gore is a con man. THAT IS NOT ON TOPIC!!
Re:Repeat same mistake/expecting diff. result by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 09:10 · Score: 0

I've DESTROYED YOU before, & SO BADLY you don't DARE expose YOUR registered 'lusername' to me ...
Bring it on, spammer boi.You can't touch me, and we already know that the reverse is not at all true.

NPD! The CRY of the injured "ne'er-do-well" by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 07:40 · Score: 0

NPD! The CRY of the injured "ne'er-do-well" vs. their SUPERIORS (like me obviously based on your effete reaction & wasted life doing ZERO of value STALKING me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts here, JEALOUS "Lil' Jowie", hahahaha).

* You've got DELUSIONS of GRANDEUR even thinking you're QUALIFIED to issue your 'prognosis' there, Dr. Quack the WHACKO "SiDeWaLk-ShRiNk of /.", lol...

APK

P.S.=> You said I'm God here, not I (I think I quoted JOB from "The Lawnmower Man" once though admittedly but only to make a point computers are in my control SINCE I ACTUALLY CODE GOOD THINGS others like & use + yes, I've 'facetiously' albeit KIDDINGLY stressing it, called my "The LORD of HOSTS" because it fits since my program creates good hosts files & many here + 100k @ least worldwide use it as well as praise it - now YOUR KIND? Well - sits around STALKING my kind out of JEALOUS "Lil' Jowie" RAGE but it's REALLY @ yourself & you KNOW it, do-NOTHING "not man" you are, lol)... apk

So many naysayers. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 09:34 · Score: 1

I'm an embedded dev, and this is totally useful on any platform with 4G of memory, which is a lot of them. It is, in fact, probably the most optimal way to run an x86_64 processors on a platform that actually does not need more than 32 bits of address space. This is a non-trivial number of applications. Like, lots. There are computers beyond servers and engineering workstations ya know. Lots more. You just conveniently pretend embedded and/or purpose-built systems are designed and programmed by magic.

Where was I doing that here? NOT HERE... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 09:44 · Score: 0

Where was I doing that HERE under the parent thread, on topic, you downmod hid (& I merely reposting nullifying that) https://linux.slashdot.org/com... ?

* POOR LIL' LIAR YOU, blows it again...

(You're pitiful)

APK

P.S.=> In ANOTHER spot (which only proves it's YOUR DEMENTED ASS STALKING ME AGAIN, lol) I only replied to lgw who noted it to me (as I stated I was refreshed it wasn't SJW bullshit in this article's topic again) https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & we merely MEANDERED (until YOU stepped in "climate change snowflake" - yes, we KNOW WHY you fear it getting warmer - you SNOWFLAKES already MELT under the pressure of life (lol) badly enough as is, lmao)... apk

Projecting your own modus operandi again? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 09:47 · Score: 0

Projecting your modus operandi again? Yes, obviously - you know what I've noticed?? You trolls' fav color HAS to be transparent!

* You're SO EASY to see thru... lmao!

APK

P.S.=> You DO know that STALKING me as you do by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts only PROVES you fear me, don't you? apk

why!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 11:39 · Score: 0

why does some of the best tech, only get mentioned when it is beeing removed?
its self-signed ssl without a certificate authority all over again.. (aka. dnssec-dane)

but why not just merge it with x86_64?
kernel & kernel space do not need to use 32bit pointers, to support executables that does!
it could simply mmu map x32 executables & libraries/wrappers to the first 4gb of virtual memory!

personally I like the idea of running kernel and user space on different cores..
for example:
Intel: ME(quark) + x86_64,
AMD: PSP(arm) + X86_64,
Wii: (arm) + PPC,
RPI: (vc4) + ARM,
ESP32: (ulp) + Xtensa,
etc..

Re:I was on topic, you're not snowflake (lol)... a by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 11:43 · Score: 0

I'm starting to think you have a split personality and have been stalking yourself all this time.

"Gosh, you're SO clever" (not)... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 12:39 · Score: 0

Everyone notices you hassle me & raymorris, gweihir, SuperKendall, creimer + probably others I don't notice as much - you're nothing more than a sick in the head little pest.

APK

P.S.=> Honestly imo, the way you act? I used to think you were some DOLT I dusted here who "tried me" & failed so he stalks me all psycho-style "butthurt" but now? I think you're some lonely kid w/ nothing better to do/too much time on your hands (idle hands = the devil's workshop) - grow up, do something else w/ your life before 10-20 yrs. goes by & you find yourself doing what you're doing now - nothing & certainly NOTHING worthwhile or fulfilling... apk

Re: "Gosh, you're SO clever" (not)... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 13:44 · Score: 0

You're projecting your unhappiness with your own life.
I keep telling you to seek professional help. I'm being sincere. Your posts indicate that you have severe mental health issues. I'm concerned that you'll snap and commit an act of violence like a mass shooting. I believe you may well be a danger to yourself and others. I want you to get the help you need, before you do something truly awful.

QUESTION, answer it... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 12:46 · Score: 0

Article topic isn't global warming so get on topic OR just go away pest. Best part is IF you're right? Added heat melts away snowflakes (lmao) like you, just as the joker replier said & I found extremely hilarious.

APK

P.S.=> Care to PROVE your statements on anti-semitism, bigotry etc. with proof of ME posting any of it? No?? Didn't think so (I use shekels all the time - rubbed off on my FROM my friends that are jews actually (surprise, surprise))... apk

Re: QUESTION, answer it... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 13:17 · Score: 0

You know what you've posted about Jews. If you have a conscience at all, you should feel guilty. I'm not sure you do. I'm starting to think you're so mentally I'll that you have difficulty distinguishing right from wrong.
As for this being off-topic, that's intellectually dishonest for you to complain about this. You started the discussion about climate change. Now that you've shown you haven't a clue about science, you're whining this is off-topic. Perhaps you shouldn't have started the off-topic discussion if you don't like the direction it's gone.
I actually don't think you're aware you're being dishonest about matters like who started the off-topic discussion and your posting history about Jews. I think you're completely delusional and have lost all touch with reality. Elsewhere in this thread, someone suggested you have issues with a split personality disorder, and that certainly seems plausible, too.
Seek professional help for your delusions, narcissistic personality disorder, and possible split personality disorder. You have extremely obvious mental health issues and need treatment.
Re: QUESTION, answer it... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-12 22:26 · Score: 0

I love how when he hands you your ass it's suddenly "not on topic"
You're just incapable of admitting to being wrong about anything, aren't you? Just like all those times you demanded forum posts be deleted, your fragile fucking ego just can't take it.
Get some mental help, you bizarre unstable man.

No No No!! I am still hoping for 8-bit support.. by Slicker · 2018-12-12 14:29 · Score: 1

I am still hoping for 8-bit support one day for the M6809 processor... Dang.

Honestly -- I don't know why there ever was so much movement toward x64 -- everything takes more memory..

32 bits gives you 32 gig, which is still alot by aberglas · 2018-12-12 17:40 · Score: 1

Provided ... you do not use the C programming language.

Java has done this for a long time. Pointers only point to things that are 8 byte aligned. And you do not do pointer arithmetic just to parse a String.

Bwaaahahaha: WRONG... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-13 01:19 · Score: 0

I just laughed so hard I spit coffee all over my screen: You STALK me constantly by UNIDENTIFIABLE anon & say I have issues? Please... lol!

APK

P.S.=> Everything you "advise" is ALL on & about you - i.e. - you need shrinks & are a danger to yourself.... apk

Re: Bwaaahahaha: WRONG... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-13 20:29 · Score: 0

Apk, Dude, you've completely lost touch with reality.
If you knew anything about writing analysis it would be super clear to you that these posts come from different people. There are dozens of us telling you that we think you need to get help, you can easily see that in pronoun use and sentence structure, as well as common typos and grammar mistakes. The fact that you're so sure it's just one or two "stalkers" is part of your problem.
Nobody stalks you. Nobody gives a shit one way or another until we come across your ramblings, and then some of us who feel compassion towards confused, angry, ill people, we speak up, we say we're worried that you're obviously getting worse, and we tell you to get help.
You are getting worse. Seek help. Let go of all the insane delusions and just get some help.
You're literally the only one who can help you.

"Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" from a question... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-13 01:30 · Score: 0

"Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" from a question https://linux.slashdot.org/com... = you...

APK

P.S.=> Now, what's that about EGO? Yours feelin' a "wee bit SHATTERED"?? Yes "Forrest"... apk

LOL! "NPD" HOWL of injured "ne'er-do-wells" by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-13 01:37 · Score: 0

See subject & again: Care to PROVE your statements on anti-semitism, bigotry etc. & proof of ME posting it? No?? Didn't think so (I use shekels all the time - rubbed off on my FROM my friends that are jews actually (surprise, surprise)).

* You've DELUSIONS of GRANDEUR even thinking you're QUALIFIED to issue your 'prognosis' there, Dr. Quack the WHACKO "SiDeWaLk-ShRiNk of /.", lol...

APK

P.S.=> Also care to produce your license to practice psychiatric sciences w/ your degree in them too PLUS a formal diagnosis of my alleged mental condition given in a professional psychiatric environs? No, didn't think so either (YOU ARE LIBELING ME per the "Goldwater Law" you know breaking laws saying what you said PSYCHO that STALKS me all over /. constantly & YOU TRY CALL ME "CRAZY"? Please)... apk

Where'd I say that in the post you replied to? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-13 01:43 · Score: 0

Where'd I say that in the post you replied to? That was a DIRECT reply to lgw I was speaking to & HIS points (which were on topic to me so I replied back to his points, that's all + I was speaking to HIM, not you, so butt out WHACKO that STALKS me all over /. like the psycho you are).

* You're COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC & butting into a conversation that didn't INVOLVE you @ all...

APK

P.S.=> You call me names libeling me w/ no proof BUT I do have proof YOU SUPPLY in you STALKING me on /. now yet again via UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous WEEZIL coward methods as always - there are LAWS against STALKING you know... apk

Take your own advice... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-13 02:41 · Score: 0

Take your own advice, get on topic (you off topic troll STALKING me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous like the psycho you are).

APK

P.S.=> Consider taking your OWN advice & using it yourself, loon... apk

Re: Take your own advice... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-15 03:27 · Score: 0

http://jeremyreimer.com/smam3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5132&view=next

You'd think an educated man (lol, not) like you by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-13 03:25 · Score: 0

You'd think an educated man (lol, not) like you could realize you're off topic completely, topic being "Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping x32 Support" - Linux, not your theories.

APK

P.S.=> GET ON TOPIC PLEASE & quit STALKING us all by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous offtopic trollings... apk

Where to download a LiveCD? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-13 06:44 · Score: 0

I have a laptop with a AMD64 processor and 2GB RAM - I suppose a good candidate for this.
- Does anyone know where to download a x32 ABI distro?
(live CDs and/or detailed instructions how to build your own ;) )

Thanks!

Re:No No No!! I am still hoping for 8-bit support. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-14 00:08 · Score: 0

For fuck's sake, read the article.

Care to show us YOU know about it? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-15 03:22 · Score: 0

Care to PROVE you are a certified professional in "writing analysis" yourself? IS there such a degree/certification?? That's YOUR problem.

APK

P.S.=> This ought to be good for a laugh... apk

On ArseHOLETechnica LMAO... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-12-15 05:12 · Score: 0

Arstechnica = losers who stalked me (as you do now anonymously unidentifiably) to NTCompatible.com & Windows IT Pro magazine forums to their public dismay in Jeremy Reimer & Jay Little + Jarrett DeAngelis (who posts here on /. until I drove his ass off too) when their websites were REMOVED by their hosting providers in Shaw Canada & CrystalTech (for both email harassing me caught on a tracking ticket + stalking me & posting lies about me on them).

Right AFTER I destroyed them both PUBLICLY @ Windows IT Pro on Exchange Servers memory being freed UNHALTING them (which tells you Exchange is HEAVILY POINTER ORIENTED linked list driven, which leads to memory fragmentation that CAN halt a serverware).

Jay Little the "self-proclaimed 'EXCHANGE EXPERT'" HAD TO CONCEDE IT from MICROSOFT'S OWN DOCUMENTATION proving it FOR me there (where they as usual stalked me AS YOU ARE NOW)

Peter Bright/Dr. Pizza (alias GOITERMAN, lol) can tell you what happened to his IRC server after that (lol).

"The great arseHOLEtechnica" (not) RUN OUT of their own server chatrooms hahaha (by "yours truly").

In effete retaliation they edited my posts & impersonated me on their little private playpen of UNDERACHIEVER losers.

APK

P.S.=> ABOVE ALL ELSE: Thanks for outing yourself as 1 of the "few, the defeated" from arseHOLEtechnica - always a pleasure exposing your lame asses (that are nothing more than do-NOTHING "ne'er-do-wells" THAT CAN'T STAND THEMSELVES for it (lol, no shit) & that you are REDUCED to STALKING ME by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous too... lmao!)... apk

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Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping x32 Support (phoronix.com)

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