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NVIDIA 'GeForce NOW Recommended Routers' Program Helps Gamers Choose Networking Gear (betanews.com)
NVIDIA has launched the "GeForce NOW Recommended Routers" program to help gamers choose the best router for them. From a report: "The GeForce NOW game-streaming service has transformed where and how you can enjoy your favorite high-performance games. We've rolled out enhancements during its beta period to improve the quality of service from our data centers to your home. With our recommended routers, in-home network congestion becomes a thing of the past, helping to keep your gameplay silky smooth," says NVIDIA. The gaming company also says, "The latest generation of routers allows you to configure settings to prioritize GeForce NOW before all other data. But we wanted to make it even easier. Recommended routers are certified as factory-enabled with a GeForce NOW quality of service (QoS) profile. It's automatically enabled when you're gaming with GeForce NOW."
No earlier than a week ago I have bought an ERPoE-5 and an AC-Pro from them. They run very well.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
I've been beta-testing GeForce NOW since the beginning and I believe this cloud gaming is going to have a huge impact on the market. I can run the latest AAA games on ultra using a PC that doesn't come close to meeting system requirements or on my Macbook pro. And I mean smooth. As in no lag. First person shooters, racing games, whatever. They play great, and don't feel any different than playing them on my own system.
Now, it's been a free service to me because I'm beta-testing (you have to own the games, of course), and I really don't know how much nVidia is going to charge for this once it's released. But if it's $5/month, I'd pay for this all day long. At $20/month, probably not. You also need a really good internet connection with unlimited data because it uses up a LOT of bandwidth.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Not the shite state of broadband internet in most regions of America.
Full 10g network at home, 10 down / 1 up with 8% packet loss.. how is fast home network helping.. most games don't push much traffic.
Here's to hoping Musk sat internet becomes a reality. Kessler Syndrome aside.
> They play great, and don't feel any different than playing them on my own system.
That means you never properly played PC games at >=60fps with 80ms between pressing a button and reaction on the screen.
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
good routers, in the real world:
- any random router with half-decent hardware (decent CPU, sufficient RAM) *as long as you kick out whatever horrible joke for a firmware was provided by the manufacturer and install OpenWRT instead* (e.g.: a slightly higher range device form cheap no-name Asian manufacturers like TP-Link is actually okay, once paired with OpenWRT, you don't need an ultra fancy one that cladvertises support for on-router torrent client and command center of cryptocoin mining ASICs)
- a couple of companies that actually still give a damn about router quality and haven't completely forgotten the meaning of the word"update" (examples such as Fritz by the German AVM comes to mind, you can even look at Freetz if you want some extra opensource pieces of software)
- forget about whatever crap with beautiful but horribly limited interface you service provided for free (unless you're in one of these European country where the ISP's router *is* a Fritz)
good router, according the recommendations that are inevitably going to pop up in such "for the gamers" infovertisement:
- the crap from whoever happened to pay the most sponsor money (expect to see a decent amount of multicoloured useless LEDs paired with horrendous firmware that sucks all your private data and that also just plain sucks)
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Wtf /. code at half of my reply :o, probably got confused by greater-than/less signs. Again:
That means you never properly played PC games at > = 60fps with 80ms between pressing a button and reaction on the screen."
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
So I guess they'll never bother to offer this in Canada.
#DeleteFacebook
Ok, this is hilarious, /. is eating everything between less/greater than signs.
"That means you never properly played PC games at "over" 60fps with "less than" 20ms total input lag.
GeForce NOW "over" 80ms between pressing a button and reaction on the screen."
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
Is there seriously such a difference that you would need to recommend one brand over another. Wouldnt you just recommend a feature set - like QoS.
This sounds like just one more way that NVIDIA controls other organisations. And, FYI, QoS wont fix people that have a bad connection in the first place, but I'm sure they wont explain that and have all the nubs in the world just think they must get this to get better speed.
Holy Flaming Slashvertisements, Batman.
I've seen Slashvertisements before, but most are at least subtle. This is like one of those articles that should actually be labelled with that little "advertisement" tags that the advertiser hopes their "click bait" title will induce you to ignore.
Is readership down? This is actually troubling to see editorial standards drop like this.
So far "GeForce NOW" has just been a service that lets you play your own Steam/Blizzard library on nVidia's servers. The service could shut down and you could still play your games on your own hardware.
nVidia also makes their GameStream software available to users so you can send your own games from your PC to a nVidia console or tablet, or any device running the FOSS Moonlight client. Or you can cast your games using Steam's streaming protocol.
Mind you, I'm not a big nVidia fan for other reasons, but so far they've handled game streaming pretty well. Still, GeForce Now is a beta product so things could always change before (or after) release.
How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
QOS only affects outgoing packets. This is generally light traffic on a home network - mainly ACKS. QOS can not affect your incoming traffic, which usually has a far greater volume than incoming. In other words QOS has virtually no affect in a typical home environment. Its a marketing gimmick .
Networking gear is not a factor in gaming. This is probably for the morons that think their reflexes and visual cortex are fast enough that 120Hz displays or 1000Hz keyboards make a difference. They do not.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
You sound like the kind of guy who thinks he can hear the difference between cheap speaker wire and expensive speaker wire.
No, if you played on GeForce now, you would never know you weren't on your own computer. I'm playing competitive FPS against people on high-end gaming machines and consoles and they don't notice except that I'm always just above them on the leader boards.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Well, we will see. In the end, this will probably be a bit more expensive than $20/month, because they actually have to finance more hardware than you would need to (except screen). That is unless they find oodles of people that then do not actually use the service. Otherwise I really prefer to have the performance of my somewhat older gaming set-up even on Saturday evening and not have to share with others.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
I was out of town and getting a network reconfigured. They were using the ISP router for everything and it couldn't even set fixed incoming port redirection. This was going to cause a bit of a problem and the damn thing was certainly leaking something. The off the shelf stuff these days is horrible and just meets whatever buzzword by a hair. My off the cuff solution was to attempt to find something we could at least upgrade to open-wrt or dd-wrt to get some features. That was also a challenge and managed to find something that was functional until I could ship a real solution.
Unfortunately, making a feature set certification would still likely confuse most people and I'm scratching my head as to anything most people would understand beyond 'good fer games' stamp.
Home devices went on a serious race to the bottom, but I'm a bit biased because there was virtually no place to buy anything good at the time.
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
I wasnt aware of any html tags build using newline (\r\n) character sequence.
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
Playing competitive FPS game is not the same as playing on a competitive level. You are saying same things console players have been saying for almost 20 years, and you probably know how confrontation between console player and mouse/kb combo looks like. Next thing you will claim there is no difference between "cinematic" 30Hz vs 144Hz :).
You might be playing fortnite against teenagers using gamepad (handicapped input device) and big screen TV (up to 150ms input lag without switching to game mode https://www.rtings.com/tv/test... ), colloquially called "shitters".
Yes, GeForce now might be good enough for people who find current consoles with dips below 24fps perfectly acceptable.
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
I'm playing competitive FPS against people on high-end gaming machines and consoles and they don't notice except that I'm always just above them on the leader boards.
Ah, Jim -- I do have to credit you with adjusting your game and now generally constraining the tall tales to ones that are completely impervious to fact checking. Merry Christmas!
When posting, select Options and set the "Comment Post Mode" pull-down menu to plain text. Either that or write valid HTML messages.
Look, I know it's crazy, but I'm playing 60 fps consistently. I'm not smart enough to know how it's being done, I just know it's happening. My big gaming PC has a 144Hz monitor, and that even looks flawless on this nvidia cloud thing. Now, I'm fairly close to one of their server farms (less than 100mi) so maybe that makes a difference.
You really ought to sign up for the beta. They're still letting people in as they load-test it. I'd like to hear what you think after you try it out.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Oh, I agree with you completely. I'm not giving up on having my own bespoke gaming PC sitting next to me, warming my feet. Plus, not all the publishers are offering their stuff on GeForce NOW. No Origin games, or EA, for example. Most everything that's on Steam and Uplay is there, but not the Microsoft games like Forza Horizon (I'm a big racing game fan).
But this is going to disrupt the market, imo. My guess is that publishers will start to offer their own game-streaming clouds, and that's why they're holding out.
I'm not really happy about the change to the cloud "game as service" model, but if my experience is any indication, it's coming nonetheless.
You are welcome on my lawn.
< is your friend.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
80 ms lag is easily perceptible by any serious gamer, indicating that you are not one.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
60fps is your screen, not 60 ticks 1:1 with the server. You're looking at 4-5 layers of latency abstraction depending. Your actions render smoothly but you're "that much more" behind the realtime server tick. This is unavoidable.
If you were facing an opponent with regular low latency, say 20ms, and you both clicked at the same time, he would AWP you dead even if your gun seemed to fire on your side. That's just how it works, it's why low ms is required.
If you want to say "it doesn't matter" that's up to you, but competitive twitch gamers know it does. You're saying "its good enough for me" which of course nobody can argue with. Just try not to brag about your lag, bruh.
A killer gaming router with the same pings and bloatware that will not be supported in 6 months and become part of a bot net.
Take my money.
No offense, but aren't you an old dude (and I say that as a 40-year-old who absolutely considers himself an "old dude" in the context of video games)?
Nobody who is older than 22.4 years old can be competitive in FPSes. And damn, have you seen the new Super Smash Brothers? So many things going on, how do the kids tell what is happening??
Oh, I'm an old dude alright.
When I say I'm competitive in FPS, I don't mean I'm doing eSports. I just beat more asses than beat me, I guess you would say. And Super Smash Bros is way beyond my ability and my endurance.
But truly, for the 99% of gamers that don't do eSportsj professionally, services like GeForce NOW are gonna be plenty good. I'm goddamn impressed with it. It's fun to play games on my Macbook that have never been ported to macOS. I like the idea of not having to invest a couple of grand every year into a gaming rig.
Now excuse me, youngster, because it's time for my evening vodka & prune juice and the reruns of Columbo are starting.
You are welcome on my lawn.
It will definitely be interesting to see what happens. My personal expectation is that it will kill the console market, but do not a lot to the gaming PC. I may be completely wrong, of course.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
I love it when "new" technology is rediscovered. Where have we seen this before? Thin clients and fat servers? Genius! Nobody has ever done heavy processing on the back end and pushed the data to thin clients.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Is this any different than my monitor having a sticker that it's guaranteed to work with Windows?
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
I'm trying to look into this. I've seen some tests with gaming machines where the input lag was around 90ms from keypress to screen. Someone was testing input lag between their local machine and Shadow Play and got the exact same results when they had a 5ms ping to the remote. The network latency was not accumulative with the other latencies. This indicates that some portion of the total input latency is relatively fixed in some fashion and as long as the effective round trip is below this value, there is no difference.
I don't know how Geforce Now is implemented, but accumulative latency is not a fundamental issue.
Human reaction time is around 250ms for primitive visual stimuli. Humans treat 80-100ms as "instant" because of how the brain works. Audio on TV is about 100ms out of sync but it seem in sync because the brain makes it seem that way. It takes nearly 150ms for information to get incorporated into your consciousness.
In competitive FPS games when dealing with the upper percentile, latency differences all the way down to 10ms can make a statistical difference over many games. My guess is what most people complain about "high latency" isn't the latency, but the jitter of a crappy route that is highly correlated with latency. Stability of latency is the most important below 80ms.
I actually am lucky to have a less than 10ms ping to most FPS game servers that I play. And a very stable 6-10ms with less than 0.1ms of jitter. I actually have noticed more issues with ultra-low latency servers than higher latency servers, all the way into the 80ms range. Client side prediction seems to have a a strange interaction at such low latencies. Around 20-30ms seems to be optimal where I'm not noticing strange micro-stuttering of player locations caused by what I assume is the server correcting what I'm seeing. It's like I'll see players making frequent location corrections of very small amounts instead of infrequent corrections of marginally larger amounts.
I'm very sensitive to these oddities because I grew up playing games like Quake over unstable dialup where there was no prediction logic of any kind and I had to in near real time identify changes to network quality by the way the game was acting in order to adjust my input compensations. I was a very competitive player and could mop the floor against most LPBs with their ISDNs and T1 dorm connections over my 250-500ms dialup over staticy lines.
Without even checking I'd assume the ROG routers are just aesthetically embedded versions of the Asus RT line of routers that get regular firmware updates many years after release.
My rt-ac88u offers joyful wireless bandwidth but also includes a bunch of gamer friendly software built in, such as the ability to route online gaming packets via dedicated paths to minimise hops and maximise performance.
I don't use that, but it does show that the ROG routers wouldn't have to do anything different or special, which both makes them cheap to design/build and easy to keep maintained.
Asus are terrible at tablets but great at routers and monitors. I'm still ambivalent on the motherboard I got from them so wont say whether they're any good at those.
Perhaps. Except some gaming machines actually measure 90ms. This is from a keystroke to when the application reacts - using the standard "hit spacebar and see how long until the screen changes". It's a fairly standard measurement - used all the way from measuring emulator latencies versus actual hardware to measuring OS latencies.
And the streaming gaming services measure 90ms as well. Granted, the actual network latency is around 5ms or so.
The one that includes a stream installer and a partial cache, but none of the release-day patches because nothing is ever working correctly on launch day anymore. Game preservation of going to become a near impossible job someday soon.
God I swear I will never buy another product by them. If the new rtx 2070 being a revamped 2060 sold at an 2080 price being $600 for economical isn't bad enough. A rumored 2060 being $399 with ram so low it can't go beyond 1080P for their low end card!
Now +$1000 plus for any decent gpu, $200 gsynch surcharges, proprietory Cuda, cheating benchmarks by making rgb 10-254 instead of 0 - 254 and compressing colors to make AMD look slow, to sending gaming companies engineers to ruin their engines on AMD hardware to cheat on more benchmarks, to rtx 20xx dying, to paying reviewers like Tech of tomorrow, linusctech tips, and Jay2cents to lie with statements like the 2080ti is the new ititan so $1300 for a gaming card is ok etc, to now this?!
Jesus. They are turning into the Apple of pc gaming too with their fanboys willing to open their wallets and laugh at AMD too. Good ridance
They are a threat to PC gaming at this point as the console now is starting to look attractive again like it's 2003 all over.
When will the greed end?
http://saveie6.com/
I like my AMD more than my GTX 680 I replaced. The drivers are much better quality and I have much less issues and no latency lag or Windows 10 bugs related to the Nvidia drivers.
I think the tide has turned and the shitty AMD catalyst drivers were retired years ago. They are totally redone.
http://saveie6.com/
I use AMD and don't have this problem. If you go to YouTube and check for example a 1060 vs Rx 580 you will see the AMD is more fluid and less choppy regardless of fps.
Also the fps for the 1060 is now crap compared to the RX 590 and 580 if you look at a recent video. GeForce drivers went to shit somewhere
http://saveie6.com/
80ms gaming machine? were they using office grade 10 year old LCD monitors and gameport joysticks? Normal PC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
re Shadow Play - streaming to another pc in the house? 5ms difference is impossible, unless again someone was using TV as his main monitor. NVFBC adds 16-25ms delay alone, locally, then you need to factor network and used monitor.
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
https://www.esportsearnings.co...
Im ~40 and currently top 99.9% in WoT (tank fps), there is a lot more to FPS than just fast reaction times. Super smash terrifies me tho :), so does tetris and fighting games.
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
You might be used to console gaming (usually >150ms input lag).
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
5ms network RTT to remote VM, not input delay. The 90ms input delay was using all decent quality mid-grade gaming components with a 60hz name brand "gaming" monitor with out of the box Win10 settings.
That link was awesome. 20ms difference in input delay just because of the model keyboard. Don't forget the test was done with 180hz monitor. The 90ms test I watched was with a typical mid-grade 60hz gaming monitor.
That's an issue with current client and server prediction. I was playing games that didn't have prediction. That means if I had packet loss, I looked like I was standing still to others, and you also look like you can't move on your end. It wasn't until a later version of Half-life that you saw the whole gaming the prediction system with artificial latency and loss.
Saturation can happen at any timescale, it doesn't need to be constant. About 5 years ago I was having issues where all of the streaming services were sending at least 1Gb/s at me. The streaming services use HTTP over TCP and transfer in 250KiB chunks, which fit in most network buffers. Since no packets were dropped, the TCP window kept opening up. Since the streaming services only need to average around 8Mb/s per stream, this resulted in the TCP connection being idle for most of the duration. With the connection being idle and the window was large enough to fit the entire 250KiB chunk and the 250KiB chunk fit in all of the buffers without causing packet loss, every time a chunk needed to be transferred, it resulted in the sender sending at max rate. If I was gaming while someone was streaming, about every 20-30 seconds, I would get a 200ms+ latency burst and loss in some cases.At the time the ISP was using normal FIFO buffering, which results in the fat flows monopolizing the buffers and sparse flows getting their packets dropped. This is the opposite of what you want. At some point in the last few years, my ISP can switched to using an AQM and this is no longer an issue.
My anecdote raises several issues. 1) TCP packet pacing is important 2) TCP shouldn't go from idle to full rate, probably do a slow start all over 3) Fair queuing is important because FIFO buffers reinforce bad behavior by statistically rewarding fat flows