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Fukushima Nuclear Disaster: Prosecutors Request Prison Time For Executives (npr.org)

Long-time Slashdot reader reporter shared this article from NPR: The former chairman and two vice presidents of the Tokyo Electric Power Co. should spend five years in prison over the 2011 flooding and meltdown at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, Japanese prosecutors say, accusing the executives of failing to prevent a foreseeable catastrophe. Prosecutors say the TEPCO executives didn't do enough to protect the nuclear plant, despite being told in 2002 that the Fukushima facility was vulnerable to a tsunami....

"It was easy to safeguard the plant against tsunami, but they kept operating the plant heedlessly," prosecutors said on Wednesday, according to The Asahi Shimbun. "That led to the deaths of many people." Former TEPCO Chairman Tsunehisa Katsumata, 78; former Vice President Ichiro Takekuro, 72; and former Vice President Sakae Muto, 68, face charges of professional negligence resulting in death and injury....

All three have pleaded not guilty in Tokyo District Court, saying they could not have predicted the tsunami.

138 comments

  1. No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by Greyfox · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Except the guys who predicted the tsunami back in 2002, when they told you the place was vulnerable to a tsunami. Which they have a lot of in Japan.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    1. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      A low wall was constructed to keep the ocean out..
      The needed emergency electricity generators that had to work got place at a low point.
      The plans go back to the 1960's.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    2. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by lgw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Once upon a time I read Atlas Shrugged. It seemed so poorly written, as the political and industrial leaders seemed like such simple caricatures. But more and more I see examples of exactly those behaviors in real life.

      Rand's cartoonishly incompetent industrial leaders would blame failures of heavy industry on the weather. "No one could have predicted that storm! We're doing all we can after the fact." Left unsaid was that bad storms (or in this case tsunamis) are certain to happen eventually, and it's your job to be ready for them.

      And here we see it in real life, with these guys defending themselves with "no one could have predicted that specific tsunami, all we could do was manage the disaster afterwards". You know, when you start sounding like a villain from an Ayn Rand novel, maybe you should hire different lawyers, as it's hard to do worse than that.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    3. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Except for Rand the corporate owners were not villains. The government trying to regulate and protect the citizens was the villain as well as anyone with social consciousness.
      Rand glorified the dog eat dog capitalism. She was too naive to think that people can raise upon merit.

    4. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nobody has been harmed by Fukushima radiation (not even the case where they 'legally' attributed a death with no medical basis

      ahem

      Japan has announced for the first time that a worker at the stricken Fukushima nuclear power plant died after suffering radiation exposure.

      The man, who was in his 50s, died from lung cancer that was diagnosed in 2016.

      Japan's government had previously agreed that radiation caused illness in four workers but this is the first acknowledged death.

      Funny definition of "nobody" you have there.

    5. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by lgw · · Score: 4, Informative

      Except for Rand the corporate owners were not villains. The government trying to regulate and protect the citizens was the villain as well as anyone with social consciousness.
      Rand glorified the dog eat dog capitalism. She was too naive to think that people can raise upon merit.

      If you're going to criticize, at least read the Cliff Notes, so that you can do better than being completely wrong about the work you're complaining about. Plenty of stuff to criticize in the actual books she actually wrote, without just making stuff up.

      The premise of Atlas Shrugged was that there are very few competent CEOs, heads of R&D, operations managers, etc, in a sea of incompetence, and if those rare competent leaders were suddenly out of the picture, the whole economy would collapse.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    6. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Russian paid trolls have adopted tobacco industry tactics to "defend" nuclear power as a whole, regardless of its inappropriateness in cost, risk to public safety, risk in mining, risk in storage of byproducts, etc.

    7. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by doom · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You skipped the fact that there's another nuclear plant in the same region of Japan that came through okay because their backup generators were placed up on higher ground.

      I don't know enough about the social situation in Japan to pin blame (was it TEPCO, was it the regulatory body?) but off hand I don't have any objections to going after management on this one, and I'm pretty strongly pro-nuclear.

      If there's no penalty for a screw-up of this magnitude, then what's the incentive to keep management from rolling the dice again?

    8. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The irony being the harsher penalties, induce perverse incentives to NEVER REPORT...

      Good thing it's only nuclear contamination, and just 1 blowup can affect the whole globe, right?
      Good thing nuclear is so cheap to clean up..

    9. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by doom · · Score: 2

      Our Republican friends have been looking like Ayn Rand villains for years now. Take a look at Enron again some time.

    10. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by doom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Claiming that "nobody" was affected by the radiation would be hard to prove, even if you excluded the workers at the plant-- on the other hand, there was an intense amount of alarmism surrounding the Fukushima incident, and that has essentially turned out to be completely wrong. Democracy Now was running "worse than Chernobyl" headlines; for years afterwards I was tyring to convince people in the SF Bay Area that they really and truly weren't going to die because of leakage in Japan...

      What did kill people at Fukushima was an evacutation panic. If you're anti-nuclear, you think "well of course, nuclear is inherently scary!", if you're pro-nuclear, you wonder why no one ever holds the anti-nuclear side accountable for their fear-mongering...

    11. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 0

      Nobody has been harmed by Fukushima radiation (not even the case where they 'legally' attributed a death with no medical basis

      ahem

      Japan has announced for the first time that a worker at the stricken Fukushima nuclear power plant died after suffering radiation exposure.

      The man, who was in his 50s, died from lung cancer that was diagnosed in 2016.

      Japan's government had previously agreed that radiation caused illness in four workers but this is the first acknowledged death.

      Funny definition of "nobody" you have there.

      Or the dead people they found in the generator room.

      But the nucKooks will just move the goalposts to preserve their "No one"

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    12. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you had an even rudimentary understanding of radiation risk and the types of cancers and the typical onset patterns, you'd know that this cancer was almost certainlyl not from Fukushima radiation. There are plenty of articles that explain how this was just some lawyers and politicians following a liability rule, and there were no medical professionals who made this attribution. In fact there are no doctors at all that attribute this to Fukushima radiation.

      Basically, the law says anyone who worked at Fukushima and gets cancer, they will attribute it to the plant no matter what.

      The foremost expert in field has explicitly explained why this was not based on science.

      https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/09/06/top-scientist-says-japans-decision-to-financially-reward-fukushima-worker-is-not-based-on-science/#2d6ba6e56a55

      But the public is easily misled, as are the media lemmings who copy en-masse without any thought. You can be one of them if you choose.

    13. Re: No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hve read the book. While government & any kind of socialism was considered bad/villains, several industrialists were villains too. Basically, Orren Boyle types who would use government to hamper competition & get themselves unfair advantages.

      The good industrialists where only those using know-how and honest work. The bad ones eventually ran a gang-style economy.

    14. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If an electrical fault from a faulty appliance burns your house down (but nobody dies because you got out in time), your focus would be on how you don't have a house anymore, not on how nobody died. If your friend kept telling you "But nobody died!, so no big deal!", and ignored your house, you'd want to punch him in the face.

      It's just very, very suspicious that all the pro-nuclear people want to talk about is how nobody died in Fukushima, but never seem to mention the 30,000 people who lost their house, business, not to mention the billions of dollars it cost.

      You seem to be focusing in on all the initial over-reaction to the incident, but want to ignore the real problems here. I don't think having to abandon little chunks of the planet for 100 years when one of these things melts is really a good outcome for nuclear power. I'm not terribly comforted by how it wasn't as bad as people's worst imaginations.

    15. Re: No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by MidnightBrewer · · Score: 1

      I have lived in Japan for 16 years and it was TEPCO. They were told long before that the plant needed higher dikes to protect it and they ignored the warning. The most galling part is that the plant was operating on a special extension - it should have been decommissioned in January of that year.

      --
      "Give a man fire, and he'll be warm for a day; set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life
    16. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by tsa · · Score: 1

      It's not about that. Merkel shut down all nuclear power stations in Germany, throwing the country back to the 19th century if you measure the amount of coal that is burned there now, because of the Fukushima 'nuclear disaster.' The disaster was the tsunami, not the power plant melting down. So Merkel's decision was based on gut feelings, not facts, and one of the stupidest things she did.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    17. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot is crawling with them too. It's a bad state of affairs.

    18. Re: No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correct, and GE (general electric) consultants from the US visiting the site told them not to build down in the tsunami plane.

    19. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by Greyfox · · Score: 1

      Oh, I'm pro-nuclear too, despite a fairly hippy upbringing. We understand all this a lot better than we did in the 1950's, but there's still a lot of '60's-era hysteria around it all. There should definitely be penalties for managing the plants as incompetently as these seem to have been. Establishing an understanding that there's more at stake for the companies in charge of them than profit if something goes wrong is a good precedent to set, I think.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    20. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by jrumney · · Score: 1

      I don't think it is fair to pin the disaster on them, but any issues with the handling of the disaster and any cover up of information in the days and weeks afterward should certainly be on the management's shoulders.

    21. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by StormReaver · · Score: 0

      If there's no penalty for a screw-up of this magnitude, then what's the incentive to keep management from rolling the dice again?

      There could be a law that creates a Nuclear Court, which guarantees that Nuclear management will forego the dice and just screw us over intentionally.

    22. Re: No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by uncqual · · Score: 2

      Then wouldn't the officials who approved the extension be just as criminally liable as the executives of TEPCO?

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    23. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by vtcodger · · Score: 1

      If you ignore NPR's sloppy reporting of environmental issues and go find a less inept news source, you'll find that the TEPCO executives are on trial for "Professional Negligence", not murder or manslaughter. Even the Guardian -- not known for its objective reporting on climate and environment -- gets that right. The financial damage done by the loss of six reactors runs to many billions of dollars. (Two of the reactors are undamaged and a third is probably repairable. But the site is a mess and restart of any of the reactors appears unlikely). There are also huge social and monetary costs associated with the evacuation of areas near the Fukushima-dai-ichi facility.

      There's no question that geologists knew a lot more about subduction zone mega-earthquakes by 2000 than they did when the facility was designed. The questions would seem to be.whether TEPCO executives knew, or should have known, there was a potential problem. And of course what constitutes "Professional Negligence" under Japanese law.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    24. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      ORLY?
      How come Germany burns less coal now than twenty years ago?
      Dumbass.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    25. Re: No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does 1 person significantly change their points? The evacuation caused more deaths than the radiation just from stress.

    26. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      stay here you obviously not paid and high quality poster

    27. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Our Republican friends have been looking like Ayn Rand villains for years now. Take a look at Enron again some time.

      Enron is a great example of of the villains in Ayn Rand's books. Create a mishmash of laws bought by a special interest to constrain the free market and then blame deregulation when it fails. What better way was there to fleece the investor owned utilities?

      How long have the Democrats controlled the California legislature? Let's blame the Republicans anyway although honestly I would not expect any better of them and there is plenty of blame to tar both sides.

    28. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by Kyr+Arvin · · Score: 1

      fuck off you god damn paid troll

      Having reason to question a pushed narrative is not being "a paid troll."

    29. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by Kyr+Arvin · · Score: 1

      How long have the Democrats controlled the California legislature? Let's blame the Republicans anyway although honestly I would not expect any better of them and there is plenty of blame to tar both sides.

      I'm not sure how many on Enron's corporate board were Republicans, but they controlled the prices by restricting energy supply. They had control of the power market in California by purchasing all power wholesale, then transmitting it out of state to create an in-state shortage. That's because California's market was partially deregulated, only partially. Consumer-level prices were capped, so price didn't affect demand in any way. The wholesale market was deregulated, so wholesalers could buy up power and charge any price. Enron shut down a number of plants at the time to force California energy regulators to purchase energy on the short-term spot market at a 800% markup. Many of Enron's actions were found to be illegal by the FERC, but Enron had already gone bankrupt by that point, so there was not much to do.

      As for the political makeup, the California legislature was split close to even when the deregulation occurred in 1996, and deregulation was pushed by California's Republican governor. The state wasn't quite as blue then as it is now.

    30. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by doom · · Score: 1

      Last I looked it was "warmer winters"-- not all energy is electrical energy, much of the coal they burn is for heating.

      If you're worried about global warming, you do not shut down clean, functioning energy sources. Full stop.

      Unfortunately, Jerry Brown over in CA decided to repeat the greens mistake in Germany, and we may lose the Diablo-Canyon plant. here...

      But never waste a crisis, right?

    31. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by doom · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure how many on Enron's corporate board were Republicans,

      Without looking, I would say "a lot": Enron donated money to the Republican party during the rise of the Bush Jr. regime.

      Many of Enron's actions were found to be illegal by the FERC, but Enron had already gone bankrupt by that point, so there was not much to do.

      A lot of the gyrations with putting The Governator in office looked an awful lot like making sure that no one went after the money Enron has stolen from California. There were some other interesting events around that time like a convenient heart-attack, not that I'm paranoid about it or anything.

      A thumbnail history of the California political experience: when Republicans are in power you have bad financial management-- and on the national stage, our Repubican friends blame this on those damn hippies in California-- but then when you get rid of the Republicans, and the financial mismanagement goes away, and things start working again.

    32. Re:No One Could Have Predicted the Tsunami by doom · · Score: 1

      You seem to be focusing in on all the initial over-reaction to the incident, but want to ignore the real problems here. I don't think having to abandon little chunks of the planet for 100 years when one of these things melts is really a good outcome for nuclear power. I'm not terribly comforted by how it wasn't as bad as people's worst imaginations.

      So, you're of the opinion that the alarmism about nuclear power-- whe arguably killed 10s of thousands-- is no big deal, because it's all to avert the greater evil of the dread nuclear meltdown threat which might materialize some day?

      See, I'm of the opinion that we should avoid problems with nuclear plants by fixing them, not by shutting them down, because we actually do need clean energy sources like nuclear power if we're going to have any hope of ameliorating global warming, because while solar and wind have had some encouraging progress, they're not going to solve the problem.

  2. It's About Time. by MrKaos · · Score: 3, Informative

    The entire Fukushima Disaster was more a disaster because it was entirely preventable. Whether is is malfeasance or nonfeasance it is plainly criminal because it is quite plainly negligence. For anyone with any doubts please refer to The official report of The Fukushima Nuclear Accident Independent Investigation Commission.

    This is an ongoing disaster, the destroyed reactors are still in an earthquake and flood prone area. TEPCO has proven itself completely corrupt, incompetent and incapable. It is in the interests of all Pacific nations to resolve and this issue demands an international response to control and contain it. It is clearly worse than Chernobyl.

    I hope TEPCO's board rots in jail.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    1. Re: It's About Time. by mysidia · · Score: 2

      Not the Tepco board only. For any public corpiration that makes profit all the stockholders should also go in prison.

      No.... stockholders are definitely immune to personal liability for the actions of the corporation whose stock they own (other than the value of the stock can become worthless). The board and management of the corporation have the duty to ensure that actions of the corporation are compliant with the law.

    2. Re: It's About Time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The reactor design is fine. The backup systems were a total failure. The generators were installed too low are flooded. Power lines to the grid were washed away. Emergency procedures also required the shutdown of the only remaining source of power to keep the reactors cool, the reactors themselves.

    3. Re:It's About Time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is an ongoing disaster, the destroyed reactors are still in an earthquake and flood prone area.

      Your ignorance belies you. Reactors are design to withstand floods and earthquake, they were not designed to withstand a sudden complete deluge of a tsunami.

      Many plants were hit with huge earthquake forces, the plants all withstood earthquake as designed.

      You are a known nuclear FUD monger here on /., and have proven your ignorance time and time again.

    4. Re: It's About Time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is clear these executives were incapable of handling an engineering problem within their insular hierarchy - I hope they are torn limb from limb and sentenced to many decades where they will be able to meet more people if their ilk and maybe pay their electric bill for a change - I have no idea if they would resist arrest but hey bring out the cuffs and see if they run

    5. Re: It's About Time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that needs to change. Stockholder must become personally and solidary liable to the actions of the corporations the own stock of.
      Only owning bonds should not lead to personal liability.

    6. Re:It's About Time. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The entire Fukushima Disaster was more a disaster because it was entirely preventable. Whether is is malfeasance or nonfeasance it is plainly criminal because it is quite plainly negligence.

      This disaster illustrates the fatal flaw of nuclear power generation.

      It isn't the plants themselves. A nuc plant can be made pretty safe. The problem is humans.

      Everything that happened in Fukushima was preventable. From the siting to the design to the seawalls to the back-up system.

      But we have deadlines, finances, hubris, corruption and stupidity.

      My research on the disaster included a "how could this have been avoided" section. After noting the freely available historical and physical evidence was ignored, it was clear that the site beside the ocean was one of the worst siting options. Further it was possible to come up with a much better site in a few minutes. Along a river, above the historic Tsunami height lines, and therefore much safer.

      Why this didn't happen, why seawalls were built that were a dead lock to be overwashed was not the fault of nuclear power, but the results of humans being in charge of it. And it is foolish to think that all nuc plants except Chernobyl and Fukushima or TMI have non-corrupt humans involved.

      It all comes to a shitload of energy packed in a small space. With not only kaboom aspects, but using poisonous materials that will take a long time to mitigate if it does go kaboom.

      Nuc power can be made safe. History shows us that it is impossible to make humans safe.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    7. Re: It's About Time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      For any public corpiration that makes profit all the stockholders should also go in prison.

      You'll need quite large prisons, then. And even larger if you throw also those stockholders who own stocks through funds, too.

      Of course, I personally don't see why someone who owns, say 10 stocks of Amazon out the outlaying 487 million, should go to prison when they finally crack it down, but this is a free country, you are free to believe whatever you want no matter how boneheaded it is.

    8. Re:It's About Time. by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't think the seawalls were the ultimate problem.

      I think the ultimate problem was the siting of the backup generators. Had they been positioned higher, and continued to operate, the meltdown would have been avoided. They actually put some of the backup generators in a basement. This was an issue that was known about well before the disaster. There was no deadline issue involved in moving the generators to a safer location.

      Perhaps it's time to stop blaming the disaster on technical issues and blame greed instead. That's why it is right that some people should go to jail.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    9. Re:It's About Time. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      I don't think the seawalls were the ultimate problem.

      I think the ultimate problem was the siting of the backup generators. Had they been positioned higher, and continued to operate, the meltdown would have been avoided. They actually put some of the backup generators in a basement. This was an issue that was known about well before the disaster.

      Yes - the overtopping of the sea walls allowed salt water to ingress to the emergency generators. But the walls were overtopped by 14 meter waves. The seawalls were 10 meters in height. The big problem was that the area was historically known for bigger waves.

      To make matters weirder, the site was originally on a 35 meter bluff, but they scalped 25 meters off it so they could rest the reactor on bedrock.

      The generator placement was definitely bad, but if they had not scalped the mountain, and raised the seawall to a height that was able to withstand tsunami that was simply going to occur, the precipitating problem of soaking the generators wouldn't have happened.

      There was no deadline issue involved in moving the generators to a safer location.

      Perhaps it's time to stop blaming the disaster on technical issues and blame greed instead. That's why it is right that some people should go to jail.

      I don't disagree. The pity is that the people who originated the terribly bad decisions in the first place are probably dead now. That doesn't absolve the following people's liability, so punish away.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    10. Re: It's About Time. by fustakrakich · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ah, but you can't stop there. You gotta go after anybody who buys their products from them directly, or anybody in their stock portfolio, or pays taxes to a government that protects their copyrights and patents and international trade agreements. Yes, that means you!

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    11. Re: It's About Time. by sjames · · Score: 1

      The idea is right though, it's a matter of where the cutoff might lay.

      CEO says "we can only make 1 billion this year. The measures we could take to make 1.1 billion would be unethical and probably illegal". Major shareholders say "get us that 1.1 billion or we'll replace you with someone who will someone who will".. Why aren't those major shareholders on the hook when the company takes those questionable measures and people die?

      Perhaps the punishment should be proportional. Let's say the corporation is found to have murdered 1000 people. At 50 years per murder, that's 50,000 years in prison. The guy who held 10/480,000,000 of the company gets 50,000years/48,000,000 = 9 hours in prison (so spends a Saturday picking up trash in an orange jumpsuit).

      More realistically, the guy with 10 shares probably didn't get an invite to the annual meeting where the CEO was pressured to set ethics aside, so nothing happens to him.

      Perhaps it is time to recognize that the liability that is limited is financial liability, not criminal.

      An alternative would be a huge increase in the multiplier converting prison time to an equivalent financial penalty. Make the risk of total loss from holding stock in an unethical corporation way too high to be worthwhile.

      So in that case, 1000 counts of murder equals the death penalty, so company gets parted out and if there's anything left after paying creditors, it goes to employees as extra severance.

    12. Re:It's About Time. by sjames · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure TMI should even be counted. It was scary, but in the end it didn't kill anyone or even release significant radiation. For that matter much of the panic was a result of the unfortunate timing with the release of "The China Syndrome" and the media being anxious to connect the two.

    13. Re:It's About Time. by sjames · · Score: 1

      Related, they didn't bother to pre-arrange for emergency backup generators with compatible hookups and didn't have anyone available who could work around that. On the greed side, they delayed using sea water to cool the reactors because they were still irrationally hoping they could get away from the problem cheap.

    14. Re:It's About Time. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The seawalls were critical because even after the emergency pumps were lost it was still possible to save the reactors using mobile pumps. They were available and working on site, but failed to cool the reactors because the water they pumped in was diverted to storage tanks.

      The damage from the tsunami had broken the monitoring system that could have told staff that the valve diverting the water was in the wrong position. No-one could get near it to physically check due to damage.

      Thus if the seawall had been adequate, or even just reduced the amount of damage, even without emergency cooling pumps the situation might have been saved.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    15. Re:It's About Time. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure TMI should even be counted. It was scary, but in the end it didn't kill anyone or even release significant radiation. For that matter much of the panic was a result of the unfortunate timing with the release of "The China Syndrome" and the media being anxious to connect the two.

      Cannot argue with that. TMI isn't in the same league.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    16. Re: It's About Time. by Kyr+Arvin · · Score: 1

      And that needs to change. Stockholder must become personally and solidary liable to the actions of the corporations the own stock of.
      Only owning bonds should not lead to personal liability.

      Yeah, good job completely destroying the economy. And sending plenty of old grandmas to jail who didn't know they had any stock in their retirement fund. And plenty of others going to jail when someone on the board committed fraud that stockholders couldn't have known about. What a winner of an idea!

  3. Five years by jd · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'd be ok with that, provided it was in a psychiatric ward to deal with their obviously disturbed minds and to rehabilitate them to the point where they were fit to live in society.

    There were plenty of predictions of the tsunami, when it was likely, how severe it was likely to be, etc. TEPCO chose to ignore those, because they were expensive, and to go with considerably cheaper predictions of a much smaller, more frequent, event. You can prove anything, if you constrict the type and date range of the evidence sufficiently. Particularly if you can make it show what is convenient for you.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:Five years by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      I'd be ok with that, provided it was in a psychiatric ward to deal with their obviously disturbed minds and to rehabilitate them to the point where they were fit to live in society.

      That's how we should treat everyone, though. As long as we're treating anyone the other way, these guys "deserve" it more than most of the people we've got in prison now.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Five years by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      There were plenty of predictions of the tsunami, when it was likely, how severe it was likely to be, etc. TEPCO chose to ignore those, because they were expensive, and to go with considerably cheaper predictions of a much smaller, more frequent, event.

      Yup - human hubris.

      And of course, disasters seldom have one single cause. But this one had one huge glaring red flag 5-alarm problem. The site.

      In the true nature of human interaction, I suspect that someone made a real killing off the siting decision.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    3. Re: Five years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " I suspect that someone made a real killing off the siting decisions"

      No pun intended

  4. No excuses for bad engineering by mysidia · · Score: 2

    All three have pleaded not guilty in Tokyo District Court, saying they could not have predicted the tsunami.

    Duh, they could not have predicted THAT particular event, BUT Tsunami's are a known and foreseeable natural event, so
    they definitely could have predicted that there would be the possibility of one or more tsunami's in general (over long periods of time),
    and when installing and operating a nuclear plant: you have a duty to ensure that radioactive material created and stored in/about
    your plant creates does not endanger the survivors after a foreseeable natural event.

    So if a particular Tsunami strength and size would not be guaranteed to kill everyone within 100 miles of your plant: your plant had better not be a threat to the public within 100 miles during/after that tsunami.

    The only regret is that they waited until AFTER the event to arrest them.
    There should be 3rd party reviews and audits of overall power plant designs and operations, and the capability of charging executives for crimes,
    mandating jail time and/or plant shutdowns BEFORE a catastrophic tsunami, etc, actually occurs..

    1. Re:No excuses for bad engineering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live a few miles from a nuclear plant on the East Coast. It's entirely possible that a tsunami could hit this area (likely spawned off the African coast). It's also possible that a large hurricane could hit. We have also had earthquakes. Any of which might take out the power plant. It already operates on razor thin margins. Should they spend millions to protect against these natural disasters? Where will the money come from? Increase power costs and put the population under even more financial stress? Should the federal government give out a bunch of free money to fix it?

    2. Re:No excuses for bad engineering by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      If it can’t be operated safely then it needs to be shut down. If upgrading for safe operation is not economically viable, all the more incentive to shutter it. This isn’t rocket science.

    3. Re:No excuses for bad engineering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I live a few miles from a nuclear plant on the East Coast. It's entirely possible that a tsunami could hit this area (likely spawned off the African coast). It's also possible that a large hurricane could hit. We have also had earthquakes. Any of which might take out the power plant. It already operates on razor thin margins. Should they spend millions to protect against these natural disasters? Where will the money come from? Increase power costs and put the population under even more financial stress? Should the federal government give out a bunch of free money to fix it?

      You should to a little tsunami research. Tsunamis can hit just about anywhere, but the chance of a large tsunami hitting any particular spot varies widely over short distances. It is dependent on shoreline shape, depth and profile of sea floor near the shore, and distance from potential sources. If you worry about a particular plant, you should look up its exact location, elevation, then find a tsunami study that details that exact piece of shoreline. Or, you can live in fear and ignorance if that pleases you.

    4. Re: No excuses for bad engineering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought nuclear was the future and was so much cheaper to produce?

    5. Re: No excuses for bad engineering by mysidia · · Score: 1

      I thought nuclear was the future and was so much cheaper to produce?

      That's true of Nuclear in principle; However, the implementation of the nuclear plant needs to be right to avoid creating hazards.
      It calls for further engineering research work to produce "inherently safe" reactor designs based on Thorium / Molten Salt Reactor Technology (MSR) such as the LfTR

      First: at the very minimum -- Old plant designs such as those in use at Fukushima should be permanently decommissioned and 100% of plants using modern reactors and overall plant systems designed to maintain containment across all environmental hazards -- including loss of outside power and damage to generators.

  5. Tsunami prone coastline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    How is it difficult to predict tsunamis on a coastline with a history of multiple tsunamis? The same goes for earthquakes. They designed the plant to handle 7.0 despite having measured more powerful earthquakes at the very same location. The professional negligence seems to be due to not only discarding historical data, but also discarding engineering warnings presented to them even before the powerplant opened.

    5 years seems like nothing compared to the predictable damage they caused. It was all about money and total neglect for safety. They should be responsible for stealing property from people considering all the houses people had to leave due to being in the exclusion zone. On top of that a lot of people are stuck with houses in areas with radiation, but not in the exclusion zone, meaning they have become unsellable. This means a lot of houses now have the value 0 due to those business men profiting from ignoring common sense regarding safety.

    It isn't an accident when it's predicted and nothing is done to prevent it. For comparison you get something like 8 years of prison in the UK for causing death by drink driving.

  6. "The deaths of so many people" by scsirob · · Score: 3, Interesting

    According to the WHO and Japanese gouvernment, the direct death toll of the Fukushima disaster was: Zero.
    https://ourworldindata.org/wha...

    The indirect results from radiation related issues and evacuation stress was not zero, but I find it hard to argue that the executives are directly responsible for the deaths of so many people. The tsunami itself caused tremendous devastation and evacuation was a given, with or without the nuclear plant there.

    --
    To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
    1. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by fabriciom · · Score: 2

      I find it fascinating how people in the US defend companies. Like they think of your best interest and exist to help you and humanity.

    2. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by cirby · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I find it fascinating how people, when confronted by those silly things called "facts," respond with non-sequiturs.

      The actual Fukushima death toll is still zero, no matter how much you hate capitalism.

    3. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by scsirob · · Score: 1

      I find it fascinating that you assume I am in the US, or a US citizen. Which I am not.

      --
      To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
    4. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by olsmeister · · Score: 0

      Yeah, why try to harden or put in safeguards at any facility, because fuck it, it's an act of god. The executives didn't directly kill anyone, it was the flying debris and deadly chemical cloud, and a warning was in fact issued.

    5. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      At the time there was no choice but to evacuate. There was no way of knowing how bad it would get, and in the end it proved to be necessary anyway.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by prisoner-of-enigma · · Score: 3, Informative

      You seem to be out of the loop regarding something we call: news.

      Then perhaps you'd be so good as to post a source link for your "news." Every article and news site I've read since the disaster says the death toll directly attributable to the meltdown is zero, precisely as the GP stated.

      Should you present evidence from a reliable, unbiased source then I'm more than willing to accept it as fact. However, until then, all the "news" available on the accident refutes your assertion.

      --
      In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
    7. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2

      Several workers have died during the cleanup of the power stations.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    8. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1, Insightful

      According to the WHO and Japanese gouvernment, the direct death toll of the Fukushima disaster was: Zero. https://ourworldindata.org/wha...

      The indirect results from radiation related issues and evacuation stress was not zero, but I find it hard to argue that the executives are directly responsible for the deaths of so many people. The tsunami itself caused tremendous devastation and evacuation was a given, with or without the nuclear plant there.

      Don't even wonder why the general citizenry doesn't trust the pro-nuc clan. You are the personification of why.

      Do a little research as to exactly why there was no other outcome but catastrophic failure for the Fukushima site.

      All human decisions that from a safety, standpoint are inexplicable outside of straightforward explanation that there was corruption involved.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    9. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      The actual Fukushima death toll is still zero, no matter how much you hate capitalism.

      You seem to be out of the loop regarding something we call: news.

      You and I both know that he's going to come up with some wild thing like "Well - people who were hiding in caves at the time - not one of them was even affected, much less killed!"

      Also bizzare how some pro nucs have taken to claiming that having evidence based concerns are somehow anti-capitalist. Especially with extensive Guvmint subsidies and the Price Anderson act just to allow them to exist, Nuc plants are the very embodiment of socialism.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    10. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I find it fascinating that you assume I am in the US, or a US citizen. Which I am not.

      Everyone is pretty fascinated this morning. That's fascinating in itself.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    11. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Yeah, why try to harden or put in safeguards at any facility, because fuck it, it's an act of god. The executives didn't directly kill anyone, it was the flying debris and deadly chemical cloud, and a warning was in fact issued.

      They were just following orders.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    12. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    13. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it's not like renewable power doesn't kill a few people every once in a while.

    14. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. Those who died, died in the earthquake or the ensuing the tsunami. How's TEPCO responsible for those? Had there been no nuke plant in Fakeashima, how many more people would still be alive?

    15. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and in the end it proved to be necessary anyway

      Really? Why?

      I guess I shouldn't be questioning the judgement of the Japanese. After all, they are home to two of the largest irradiation sites on the planet. Which will be uninhabitable for centuries .......

      Wait a minute!

    16. Re: "The deaths of so many people" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fuck off you god damn retarded faggot

    17. Re: "The deaths of so many people" by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Are you seriously that stupid or are you trolling for the anti-Nike side? Itâ(TM)s fucking incredible the level of reality and logic disconnect in your statement.

      You still illustrate exactly why people think that nuc people ar as trustable as Jerry Sandusky around ten year old boys. Allow me to explain.

      You (apparently) and many of the pro nuc crowd meet every criticism be calling the person who has the nerve to question any aspect as stupid, detached form reality, and illogical. When in fact, I am not anti-nuc. I consider you the enemy from within. The pro nuc person who systematically destroys the credibility by acting like a smug asshole. When in fact, all you offer for disasters like Chernobyl and Fukushima is bullshit like "It won't happen again, New reactors are perfectly safe" or "Not one single person was killed.

      And then they get to see what happened at those sites. It's like looking at the reactors in Fukushima exploding aznd you seem to think that people are wanting to get that at home."

      And all you offer in return is derision and calling them stupid. When in fact you are indeed seeing a weird sort of stupidity that masquerades as smug superiority - It is your reflection in the mirror. You harm what you profess to support. Nuc Energy has a terrible P.R. Problem, and you only make it worse.

      Come back and discuss when you aren't a weak troll, because you are helping make those who you consider the enemy's case.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    18. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yes, the goalposts start moving again. We were not talking about deaths caused by renewable power, we were talking about deaths from the Fukushima incident.

    19. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by sfcat · · Score: 1

      The actual Fukushima death toll is still zero, no matter how much you hate capitalism.

      You seem to be out of the loop regarding something we call: news.

      You and I both know that he's going to come up with some wild thing like "Well - people who were hiding in caves at the time - not one of them was even affected, much less killed!"

      Also bizzare how some pro nucs have taken to claiming that having evidence based concerns are somehow anti-capitalist. Especially with extensive Guvmint subsidies and the Price Anderson act just to allow them to exist, Nuc plants are the very embodiment of socialism.

      The number is either 0 or 1 depending on who you believe. While tragic, its not the huge numbers that many predicted.

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
    20. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by sfcat · · Score: 1

      And yes, the goalposts start moving again. We were not talking about deaths caused by renewable power, we were talking about deaths from the Fukushima incident.

      All sources of power cause deaths. Anything that cause be used for power can be used to kill people. Plus, accidents happen, period. The question is which power source and how many deaths for how much power. One issue with nuclear has always been the fear of a high casualty event which has never materialized. The question of 0 or 1 death from an old PWR designed plant run so poorly in the face of a huge natural disaster is pretty amazing right? That's the point. Not that it is OK, but when everything went sideways things didn't go as badly as some fear. We can still do better but nuclear has always faced a problem with impossible expectations.

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
    21. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by sfcat · · Score: 1

      According to the WHO and Japanese gouvernment, the direct death toll of the Fukushima disaster was: Zero. https://ourworldindata.org/wha...

      The indirect results from radiation related issues and evacuation stress was not zero, but I find it hard to argue that the executives are directly responsible for the deaths of so many people. The tsunami itself caused tremendous devastation and evacuation was a given, with or without the nuclear plant there.

      Don't even wonder why the general citizenry doesn't trust the pro-nuc clan. You are the personification of why.

      Do a little research as to exactly why there was no other outcome but catastrophic failure for the Fukushima site.

      All human decisions that from a safety, standpoint are inexplicable outside of straightforward explanation that there was corruption involved.

      The GP did provide a link which backed up his assertions. You provided insults. Just saying...

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
    22. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Several people died due to a tsunami as well. Both of these are independent of a nuclear incident. Lumping them together serves only to further political causes. Separating them however allows people to be truly held accountable and correct actions and mitigations to be devised in the future.

    23. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      So far the humanity has been lucky. But luck is most certainly not an inherent trait of nuclear power plants. Especially given that all these power stations that did have an accident - yes, the one in Chernobyl as well - were sold as completely safe when built.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    24. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      The actual Fukushima death toll is still zero, no matter how much you hate capitalism.

      You seem to be out of the loop regarding something we call: news.

      You and I both know that he's going to come up with some wild thing like "Well - people who were hiding in caves at the time - not one of them was even affected, much less killed!"

      Also bizzare how some pro nucs have taken to claiming that having evidence based concerns are somehow anti-capitalist. Especially with extensive Guvmint subsidies and the Price Anderson act just to allow them to exist, Nuc plants are the very embodiment of socialism.

      The number is either 0 or 1 depending on who you believe. While tragic, its not the huge numbers that many predicted.

      For the level of proof I accept, I have no idea how the numbers were obtained. Were any deaths related to radiation or were they just part of the mechanics of the unfolding events?

      And proving beyond doubt that any death is the result of exposure to radiation is difficult other than obvious massive exposure at the time of the accident. The kind that leads to near instant pathology.

      But is nuclear power generation going to take strategy from the tobacco industry? Quibble over deaths provable beyond doubt while ignoring the obvious other effects - especially since many effects take years to manifest.

      And those other effects - economic disruption, areas sealed off from productive and profitible use in maintaining an economy, and the Public relations disaster, amplified by people who act as if nothing happened and that anyone who doesn't agree with them is stupid, is only deniable by a level of denial that ranks up with young earth creationists.

      Nuclear denialism as it were. Instead of claiming that there is no problem and that the other side is retarded, nuc proponents should be the angriest mofos about this textbook case of how not to build and operate a nuclear power plant.

      There is too much energy confined in a small place - and that jinn want's out of it's bottle - to try to operate in such a fashion.

      The proponents need to own the sins of the industry. Otherwise they'll just be cranks, squealing how everyone who doesn't agree with them is stupid. When in fact, as Shakespeare said it so well - "a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more - it is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    25. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Every article and news site I've read since the disaster says the death toll directly attributable to the meltdown is zero, precisely as the GP stated.
      That was at the time of the meltdown.
      We are now 3 or 4 years later ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    26. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by sfcat · · Score: 1

      The proponents need to own the sins of the industry. Otherwise they'll just be cranks, squealing how everyone who doesn't agree with them is stupid. When in fact, as Shakespeare said it so well - "a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more - it is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

      Ok, so every other way we make power needs to do the same. Hydro is responsible for every broken dam in history. Coal for all the black lung. Oil for all the wars in the Middle East. Wind for everyone who has fallen off of a windmill. Solar for everyone who fell off a roof and broken their necks while installing panels. Every source of power kills people sometimes. We can even chart the deaths per kilowatt and guess what? Nuclear still has the least. Your goal of 0 deaths is naive at best. At worst you are a shill of the natural gas industry. Either way the cost of not building nuclear plants isn't 0. Its in the millions of deaths and despite this fact you get obsessed with a single death of someone who worked in a badly run plant for 38 years. Own your own sins Pollyanna.

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
    27. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      The proponents need to own the sins of the industry. Otherwise they'll just be cranks, squealing how everyone who doesn't agree with them is stupid. When in fact, as Shakespeare said it so well - "a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more - it is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

      Ok, so every other way we make power needs to do the same. Hydro is responsible for every broken dam in history. Coal for all the black lung. Oil for all the wars in the Middle East. Wind for everyone who has fallen off of a windmill. Solar for everyone who fell off a roof and broken their necks while installing panels. Every source of power kills people sometimes. We can even chart the deaths per kilowatt and guess what? Nuclear still has the least. Your goal of 0 deaths is naive at best.

      Wait....what? Where on earth did you ever pull that out of anything I wrote? Any industrial process is going to have death now and then. U have those charts bro? Even just fixating on deaths is only telling a small part of the picture.

      But enough of the silly stats. Flying the space shuttle might have remarkably different safety stories depending on total miles travelled and deaths per launch.

      Nuclear accidents have this problem of messing up the locality, and cleanup costs that end up with simply abandoning the locale where the accident happens. Ignoring those costs and bragging about how few people were provably directly killed by radiation is deflection.

      At worst you are a shill of the natural gas industry.

      I like NatGas. It's a fine transition energy source until the clean methods are mature. Shill? Not likely.

      Either way the cost of not building nuclear plants isn't 0.

      Are you certain you are replying to me? I simply don't get where you get the idea I am arguing for 0 deaths. Industrial processes always entail some risks. Accidents happen.

      My objection to Nuc energy at present is based on the fact that when something goes wrong, it makes a hellava big mess. That truth, along with the hubris of some of the pro-nuc brethren, the cost only viewpoint of their financiers, and the schedule pressure placed by administrators simply invites letting that jinn out of it's containment structure and making it's mess.

      Its in the millions of deaths and despite this fact you get obsessed with a single death of someone who worked in a badly run plant for 38 years.

      Again, not my argument. And you went No True Scotsman there. Of course, when a disaster occurs, we look into it and find out just why it happened. But to use those findings as vindication of nuc plant safety requires the NTS defense. If one plant is badly run in a country like Japan, It is not a bad guess that the other plants might be deficient in some manner.

      Utilizing nuclear power is not like other industrial processes. A remarkable amount of energy is contained in a small place. Like all energy, it wants to be out of it's containment. It is possible to contain it. But humans are motivated by what motivates them, and we have seen the biggest factor in nuclear accidents is human error or criminality.

      Own your own sins Pollyanna.

      At least have the decency to argue against points I make, not make shit up so you can pretend I said it. Peace out

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    28. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by prisoner-of-enigma · · Score: 1

      And yet, three or four years later, the death toll due to radiation is...wait, let me check again...yup, still zero. Care to try again?

      --
      In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
    29. Re:"The deaths of so many people" by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Ah ... you are still out of the loop?

      Three or four clean up workers died ... and obviously no one knows how many actually died from inhaling radioactive material as no one makes statistics about it, because: it can not be attributed to the cause.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  7. In the US by DaMattster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Senior management in the US should be held to the same standards and should go to prison for white collar crimes that they commit. Wealth and position should never be a get out of jail card.

    1. Re:In the US by BoRegardless · · Score: 0

      Well, if senior management of companies must be responsible for failures, then senior management in Government must be responsible for not protecting our borders as specified in the Constitution.

      Deliberately letting in criminals and terrorists because they don't want to fund the defense of the border should be punishable by prison time. Sounds good to me.

      After all, we have only been talking about this in earnest for decades.

    2. Re:In the US by ZombieCatInABox · · Score: 2

      Deliberately voting to the white house a known and well established narcissist, psychopath, compulsive liar, scammer, con-man and child molester for the sole purpose of pissing off half the U.S. population and wilfully destabelizing society and risking plunging it into chaos should be considered an act of treason punishable by prison time.

    3. Re:In the US by Notabadguy · · Score: 1

      Deliberately voting to the white house a known and well established narcissist, psychopath, compulsive liar, scammer, con-man and child molester for the sole purpose of pissing off half the U.S. population and wilfully destabelizing society and risking plunging it into chaos should be considered an act of treason punishable by prison time.

      Everyone realizes that the only viable solution to all of these problems that you and everyone else bring up *IS* Prison. So the US is working as quickly as it can to turn the US into a prison.

      I bet when that gets done, you'll still be unhappy.

    4. Re:In the US by prisoner-of-enigma · · Score: 1, Informative

      a known and well established narcissist, psychopath, compulsive liar, scammer, con-man and child molester

      Wow! You do realize you just described pretty much every politician in office, right? If we held all elected officials to this standard, Washington would be a ghost town!

      Not a bad idea, actually.

      --
      In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
    5. Re:In the US by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      It is kind of funny to see a super power pissing their pants trembling in terror before a couple of thousands refugees.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    6. Re:In the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wait. What article in the constitution are you referring to?

    7. Re:In the US by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      You forgot the War on Christmas

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    8. Re:In the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, Reagan got the Russians/Eastern Germany to tear down a wall and Vlad is getting America to build one. All Vlad had to do was make Trump thing the Wall would be the Great Wall of Trump to do it. The Wall will stop no one dummy. The cartel's have already build elaborate tunnels to get drugs in. Most illegal's come in via airports not walking. The Wall is just a shiny thing for a 2 year old president.

    9. Re:In the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly how I felt about Obama. I hate everyone who voted for that schmuck.

      But if voting becomes an act of treason, as you stupidly claim it should, then expect to be killed in a civil war, you idiot.

    10. Re:In the US by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      So the US is working as quickly as it can to turn the US into a prison.

      Remember that slavery was not abolished in the USA and still exists legally -- in prisons.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    11. Re:In the US by ZombieCatInABox · · Score: 1

      When Obama was campaining, his words were about unity, solidarity, and hope. Whether he was sincere or not is irrelevant; people believed him, and by voting for him, they sincerely tought, naively, stupidely maybe, but still sincerely, that they were doing good.

      When Trump was campaining, his words were all about fear, anger, and hate. Unless they didn't live at any moment anywhere on planet Earth during the past 50 or so years, they knew exactly what kind of man he was. When they voted for him, they deliberately wanted to do harm.

      Now tell me: In what way is this not exactly the definition of a criminal act ?

    12. Re:In the US by sjames · · Score: 1

      But what's really happening is congrespeople not wanting to flush 5 billion dollars down the toilet on a plan that only works in the imagination of a small child.

      Send me $200,000 and I will visualize a safe border every day for the next 5 years. You want a safe border, don't you? $200,000 is quite a bargain compared to $5 billion!

    13. Re: In the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This.

    14. Re:In the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Deliberately voting to the white house a known and well established narcissist, psychopath, compulsive liar, scammer, con-man and child molester
      Hold on, be more specific. Your criteria matches close to 70% of all politicians. Who exactly are you tal-

      >for the sole purpose of pissing off half the U.S. population
      Oh okay, that clarifies things.
      Hillary lost, get over it.

  8. Errors in thinking often occur. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 2

    Maybe humans are not sufficiently careful to have nuclear facilities. Errors in thinking often occur.

    1. Re:Errors in thinking often occur. by Gavagai80 · · Score: 2

      Maybe humans are not sufficiently careful to have nuclear facilities. Errors in thinking often occur.

      The problem is, coal has been killing millions of people a year by spewing out radiation and other pollution. And yet human psychology says it's better to kill millions intentionally with coal rather than risk killing thousands by accident with nuclear. Accidents scare us more because we assign fault to them, perhaps. We can accept any number of routine matter-of-course cost-of-doing-business deaths, but we cannot abide a single dramatic accidental death.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    2. Re:Errors in thinking often occur. by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

      rather than risk killing thousands by accident with nuclear.

      Of course, Fukushima, TMI, and Chernobyl combined didn't kill thousands. More like hundreds.

      Of those, ONE (1) was killed by Fukushima. He died this past year.

      TMI didn't kill anyone.

      Chernobyl killed a couple hundred firefighters (and if Chernobyl were non-nuclear, it would probably have killed the same number of firefighters....).

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    3. Re:Errors in thinking often occur. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Maybe humans are not sufficiently careful to have nuclear facilities. Errors in thinking often occur.

      The problem is, coal has been killing millions of people a year by spewing out radiation and other pollution. And yet human psychology says it's better to kill millions intentionally with coal rather than risk killing thousands by accident with nuclear. Accidents scare us more because we assign fault to them, perhaps. We can accept any number of routine matter-of-course cost-of-doing-business deaths, but we cannot abide a single dramatic accidental death.

      Can you give me the citations showing that millions of people have been killed by coal?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    4. Re:Errors in thinking often occur. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://theconversation.com/the-other-reason-to-shift-away-from-coal-air-pollution-that-kills-thousands-every-year-78874

    5. Re:Errors in thinking often occur. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    6. Re:Errors in thinking often occur. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      http://theconversation.com/the-other-reason-to-shift-away-from-coal-air-pollution-that-kills-thousands-every-year-78874

      Thousands, amirite? Coal sucks big time. But when we exaggerate, it gives detractors a weapon.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    7. Re:Errors in thinking often occur. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      http://groundwork.org.za/archi...

      I don't support coal in the least. It is filthy, hazardous to health, and it's mining effects are ruinous. The sooner we leave it in the ground, the better.

      But I am still waiting for the millions number.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    8. Re:Errors in thinking often occur. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And costs the USA hundreds of billions per year in health related issues.

    9. Re:Errors in thinking often occur. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's per year, and excludes significant elements of coal mining, transportation, storage, and even elements of its use.

  9. You must place trust SOMEWHERE by Bruce66423 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The desire to find someone to blame and punish them severely is human nature, but the reality is that we need to be able to trust in order to operate at all. One of the issues of making a senior manager responsible for certain issues to the point of criminal liability is that it may become impossible to get anyone to accept the responsibility if they aren't able to show that they acted reasonably in response to the information they had when making the iffy decision. Given that there is ALWAYS a trade off between safely and operating (you drive your car faster than 10 mph - therefore you choose to take the risk of hurting someone seriously if you hit them), we need to balance those. Now I agree in this case they seem to have got it wrong - although there is also a failure with the regulator who didn't force them to act on this.

    1. Re:You must place trust SOMEWHERE by mrclevesque · · Score: 1

      "The desire to find someone to blame and punish them severely is human nature"

      I think that's in a large part cultural and it's the desire to resolve problems that's human nature.

    2. Re:You must place trust SOMEWHERE by drinkypoo · · Score: 0

      The desire to find someone to blame and punish them severely is human nature, but the reality is that we need to be able to trust in order to operate at all.

      The reality is that humans are not trustworthy enough for us to use nuclear power, which is unnecessary anyway.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  10. earthquake and flood prone area by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that's all of japan. do you want them to give up nuclear entirely and go back to coal?

  11. Could not have predicted the obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    There's only a few centuries of Japanese paintings depicting massive waves, affecting Japan. It's not like the word "tsunami" is Japanese, so why should they anticipate such a remote, unfamiliar event?

    The Japanese people have no experience with nuclear disasters or big waves, and this was completely unforeseeable.

  12. This is the right move by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

    What made a minor accident into a major crisis was purely the fault of bonehead management. After a current-generation reactor is scrammed because of an impending disaster, all you have to do to avoid a meltdown is keep coolant circulating through it for long enough to remove heat of decay. Even in a regional disaster that destroys the power grid, there are ways of doing this that should be prearranged, like hooking up fire trucks to the coolant system. But when they tried exactly this at Fukushima, nobody had provided compatible fittings to local fire departments. The hoses wouldn't connect.

  13. HA HA! OH WOW. by gumpish · · Score: 1

    If I ever go on a shooting rampage I hope you're a member of the jury. I'll just have my attorney explain to the court that *I* didn't kill anyone, it was the bullets from the gun that I fired.

    "The number of people who died at the hands of gumpish was: Zero. The indirect results from bullet-related issues and blood loss was not zero, but I find it hard to argue that the gunman is directly responsible for the deaths of so many people."

  14. totally sad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    well there you go: Another reason NOT to build nuclear reactors.

    even nuclear reactors need bosses, like chair-board-people, which mostly are
    old dignified and wise old people, weathered and sweet smelling.

    people like this should really not go to prison; after all, prison is for
    rapists, drug dealers and other scum that are a menace to society.

    in this specific case, the chair-board-people are most likely reasonable people
    that interface between clubberment (especially in japan), stockholders (people who vote with money to support a clubberment policy) and a army of hired people.
    there's NO way, these old dignified people have any inkling about anything engineering, geophysics (earth quakes) and the sort. excellent writing and reading skills and beyond awesome bridge-building skills, including making compromises however are their daily breed and butter?

    so if you don't want to send old people off to the chopping block for responsibilities that have been outsourced (by the clubberment)
    then don't build and operate any more slow-mo atom splitters -aka- matter transformers.

  15. Didn't the other set of reactors survive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hi, I recall reading about how some guy working on the other set of Fukushima reactors went to extensive efforts to get that set's walls over built in height and strength because he remembered a spot further up the mountain that had the high water mark from a previous flood marked from a millennium ago and he decided to study flood maps and overbuilt the walls.

  16. To be fair the book is still nonsense by rsilvergun · · Score: 1
    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  17. No-brainer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have you noticed whenever business is booming, the execs want all the praise, but when things go awry they know absolutely nothing?

    Time for executives - and owners - to be held accountable.

  18. Nuclear Accident in New Mexico by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Large-scale problems in Japan occur primarily due to unethical behavior. The Fukushima nuclear disaster is an example.

    By contrast, large-scale problems in the United States occur due to either unethical behavior or incompetence. The latter cause is often due to affirmative action (AA).

    The Los Alamos National Laboratory uses AA to give preferential treatment to Africans and Hispanics in employment. According to a report by NPR, a contractor (who was likely African or Hispanic) was unaware that "organic" and "inorganic" are not synonyms. He poured organic material into a drum of nuclear waste. Consequently, the drum exploded. Plutonium dust was emitted into the atmosphere.

    If you eat vegetables from farms in New Mexico, you likely have consumed trace amounts of plutonium.

    There is more information about this issue.

  19. Corporate ownership is the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just do not allow limited liability corporations to own or operate nuclear power plants. Instead require ownership to be structured as a general partnership with unlimited joint and several liability of partners for any accident.

    Then you would not have to worry about detailed regulations and continuing oversight of compliance issues. Just let the insurance companies and tort lawyers deal with it.

    If a billionaire is going to invest his own money and be personally liable, then he will make damn sure that the thing is safe. And if nobody is willing to take the risk, then probably the reactor should not be built.