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Why Huawei Gives the US and Its Allies Security Nightmares (technologyreview.com)

Posted by msmash on from the closer-look dept.

Perhaps the most insightful piece that sums up why the U.S. and its allies are apprehensive of using Huawei's products. Six reasons, we are just highlighting the pointers, click on the source story to read the description:
1. There could be "kill switches" in Huawei equipment.
2. ... That even close inspections miss.
3. Back doors could be used for data snooping.
4. The rollout of 5G wireless networks will make everything worse.
5. Chinese firms will ship tech to countries in defiance of a US trade embargo.
6. Huawei isn't as immune to Chinese government influence as it claims to be.

22 of 346 comments (clear)

  1. More reasons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    7. It's competition to US products.
    8. People with Huawei equipment can be spied upon by the Chinese government and not as easily by the US government.

    1. Re:More reasons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What US products? We have systematically destroyed 99% of our production capacity for the components that go into cell phones by allowing corporations to fire everyone and move production to other countries which allow workers to be so badly treated that they're slaves in all but name only.

      The only part the USA plays in making a cell phone is some manufacturers assembling the parts here in order to get an "Assembled in the USA" label. We can't make enough of the components for any cell phone to qualify as "Made in the USA".

    2. Re:More reasons by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 4, Informative

      0. We know for a fact that the government backdoors the shit out of any tech made under their roof, because we do it, Intel actually got caught doing it in leaks over a half a decade ago, and they still do it. It's like giving up the ability to spy on your slaves to your next-largest competitor, you just don't do that.

    3. Re:More reasons by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 5, Interesting

      They are not "slaves in all but name only". The working conditions are pretty good in a lot of those Chinese factories, the workers make enough money to send home to their rural families, and despite the sensationalist claims, suicide rates are roughly equivalent to the non-factory worker population. I would say that it is far more likely that your vegetables were picked by someone in the USA that is functionally a slave or that your clothes are made by some child in a sweatshop than your phone is made by a "slave". Indeed, one of the reasons why the work has moved to China is the presence of so much SKILLED labour all concentrated in one place.

      China isn’t perfect, the factories often try to get away with shit, not everyone there is acting in good faith...but I could say exactly the same thing about a lot of places in North America. I think the real fear here is that despite everything, we AREN'T any better than the Chinese, and it offends our moral sensibilities that we might not have any moral high ground to stand on when it comes to workers and their rights.

    4. Re: More reasons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Number 8 there is the big one.

      The US could not care less about the actual hardware security, they just want access to the equipment no matter where it is.

      Huawei has systematically refused to provide that access

      So, the US advocates against people using them "for security reasons"

  2. I'm surprised it doesn't go the other way. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Every point made here is just as true from the other side too. I know China is investing heavily in developing high-end microprocessor designs and manufacturing capability, but shouldn't it make strategic sense for them to also spend as much money as it takes to purge their country of Microsoft? Windows Update could be easily repurposed for espionage, and even if the US government doesn't control it yet, they could surely do so if they situation was desperate enough. I'd expect China to be throwing huge piles of money into transitioning away from Windows entirely for all military and government functions, and all major companies too. They even tried with Red Flag Linux, and that ended badly. China is striving for hardware manufacturing capability, but seems to be unconcerned over software.

    1. Re:I'm surprised it doesn't go the other way. by markdavis · · Score: 5, Interesting

      >"I'd expect China to be throwing huge piles of money into transitioning away from Windows entirely for all military and government functions, and all major companies too. They even tried with Red Flag Linux, and that ended badly."

      You are correct that they shouldn't trust closed US software/hardware (yet we probably shouldn't either). Although their attempt with using Linux didn't end "badly", it just ended because for whatever reason, they decided not to pursue it. At the time, it was probably less about security than a bluff to try and force Microsoft to lower prices and/or include certain "features", coupled with their unwillingness to port their applications to the platform. Actually, it could have been a huge win for them had they continued the process.

  3. US govt propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's why we are to be afraid. Guess what, your mobile mandatory location identifying device (as required by US law) is a leash.

    1. Re:US govt propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      All popular computer applications are spyware now. Everything is data-mining you as much as possible. It's part of society. The correct thing to do is ditch everything and start from scratch. Build a new internet, new protocols, that use mandatory encryption for every action. The military already does that, but civilians are stuck with the shitty version of the internet.

  4. Why [cisco|intel|...$USBRAND] gives $NOTUSA and it by getuid() · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1. There most likely are "kill switches" in $USBRAND equipment.

    2. ... That even close inspections miss.

    3. Back doors are already being used for data snooping.

    4. The rollout of 5G wireless networks will make everything worse.

    5. US firms will ship tech to countries wherever the fuck they want regardless of anything else.

    6. $USBRAND isn't immune to US government influence, period.

    I fail to see a problem with Huawei in particular.

  5. Re:Why [cisco|intel|...$USBRAND] gives $NOTUSA and by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    pretty much, everyone in the intelligence industry worry about the stuff they are doing to other countries being done back.

    Look at what they are saying that other places are likely doing, and you get a pretty good list of what they are doing to other places.

  6. The real reason by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 5, Informative

    7. Huawei phones lack the backdoors that allow the US intelligence community to spy on its own people.

    That's it, really. They don't trust us, not at all. You really have to wonder why? Why do they feel the need to spy on us and know what we're thinking? Our elected government made this illegal, and the intelligence community promptly broke the law and lied about it.

    On March 12, 2013, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper told Congress that intel officials were not collecting mass data on tens of millions of Americans. NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden soon revealed material that proved Clapper's testimony false: The government had been gathering and storing data from ordinary Americans' phone records, email and Internet use.

    They don't feel any obligation to us at all. It's OK if they break the laws we passed with our elected government and lie to our faces - they don't feel safe if we can keep secrets from them. Fuck democracy, they have wars to start. If we all started buying Huawei they would feel very unsafe indeed.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    1. Re:The real reason by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I had never heard of Huawei until I moved back to Costa Rica earlier this year. I was basically GIVEN two of their phones by the local phone company - they're that cheap. And they're pretty good. I don't use them because I still have my Samsung but I had a look at them. Given what they offer (a lot) for what they cost (almost nothing), I can understand why the US cell phone market is shaking in its boots. This is not so much about spying and 100% about the oligopolies making sure they don't lose market share. Anyway, I have 2 spare phones.

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      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  7. Could, could be and so on is the best we have? by bogaboga · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I set it's a bunch of "possibilities"...

    "Could be"..."Could" and so on...

    Chinese firms will ship tech to countries in defiance of a US trade embargo.

    Why should foreign entity obey US law is I may ask?

    . Huawei isn't as immune to Chinese government influence as it claims to be

    Let's remember we have the NSA that has done more or less the same, even in defiance of US law...

  8. Re: Why [cisco|intel|...$USBRAND] gives $NOTUSA an by getuid() · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If you're the average American (or European, for that matter), you're living paycheck to paycheck, your perspective of retiring at the end of your useful shelf life (~65, give or take) is practically zero, your children's chance of a useful education is degrading (...if you're European; it's already essentially zero of you're US), and the only perspective your offspring have in their life is to live through & possibly, maybe, try to clean up the mess the big winners of your generation are creating for all of us.

    In that case, China is not your primary enemy. Your own government is, together (or better: led by?) those who Have. That's what you should be worrying about primarily.

  9. Cisco = Huawei by stooo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Cisco does exactly the same.

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    aaaaaaa
  10. Re:Why [cisco|intel|...$USBRAND] gives $NOTUSA and by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    3. Back doors are already being used for data snooping.

    Hell, FRONT doors are already being used for data snooping. Well you clicked "I agree", right?

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  11. Re:Why [cisco|intel|...$USBRAND] gives $NOTUSA and by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Interesting

    And still absolutely nobody has asked themselves how Turkey happened to end up with audio recordings of the Kashoggi murder... While everyone was busy saying "oh dear that's terrible", I was thinking "lol they're going to have to change the bugs in the Saudi consulate now".

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    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  12. Re:Why [cisco|intel|...$USBRAND] gives $NOTUSA and by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Speaking as someone from western Europe, the problem with Huawei is that in geopolitical terms China is not an ally by any stretch of the imagination. The USA are. If there's any serious trouble, we do not have to worry about the USA shutting us off unless they decide at some point that we are no longer allies. The biggest worry is that equipment from the US has some backdoor (installed on behest of the government or whatever) that the Chinese can exploit.

    --
    If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
  13. Re: Cisco routers. by vtcodger · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you ask me, the Europeans would have to be crazy to allow themselves to be overly dependent on any of the US, Russia, North Africa, or the Middle East for fuel to keep warm in Winter. But they are capable of figuring that our for themselves I think.

    --
    You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
  14. Re: Why [cisco|intel|...$USBRAND] gives $NOTUSA an by Talla · · Score: 4, Informative

    So no, the US are definitely no more allies of Europe than China is.

    You have no sense of proportion. China lives by completely different rules. They have no respect for freedom of speech or democracy, quite the opposite, and they don't care if other countries do. The US has its flaws, but I'll take a flawed democracy over an oppressing dictatorship any day.

    And beyond ecinomics... well, if you're European, it's not like China is out to burn your home, rape your wife, kill your dog. They're on a different hemisphere for chrissake, there's noting to gain for them from indaving another, regardless of whether that's Europe or US. (FWIW, the only country that has a habit of doing that post-WW2, regularly, is the US.)

    No, maybe they'll just destroy all your infrastructure that's connected to the internet, including telecommuncations, power supply, and everything else that's needed in a modern society. Japan's being in a different hemisphere didn't stop them from starting an all out war with the US. If the western countries tries to do the right thing and stop China from taking areas from smaller countries in Asia then a war is not an impossibility. I assume you know that China is already doing that by creating artificial islands with military bases.

  15. There's Deauthorization on Windows, Too. by BrendaEM · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I am not making excuses for Huawei, and we shouldn't make them for Microsoft, either. A few months ago, my computer was one of the many that de-authorized by Microsoft because of the bug in their servers, only for a day, but Windows 10 appears to have a kill switch.

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    https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM