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Natural Gas is Now Getting in the Way; US Carbon Emissions Increase by 3.4% (arstechnica.com)

AmiMoJo shares a report: "The US was already off track in meeting its Paris Agreement targets. The gap is even wider headed into 2019." That's the dire news from Rhodium Group, a research firm that released preliminary estimates of US carbon emissions in 2018. Though the Trump administration said it would exit the Paris Agreement in 2017, the US is still bound by the agreement to submit progress reports until 2020. But the administration has justified regulatory rollbacks since then, claiming that regulation from the US government is unnecessary because emissions were trending downward anyway. But it appears that emissions have increased 3.4 percent in 2018 across the US economy, the second-largest annual increase in 20 years, according to Rhodium Group's preliminary data. (2010, when the US started recovering from the recession, was the largest annual increase in the last two decades.)

This reversal of course -- the first increase in emissions in three years -- came from a few sources. Carbon emissions from the US electricity sector increased by 1.9 percent, largely because the installation of new natural gas plants has outpaced coal retirements. Cheap natural gas has been credited with killing coal, which is a dirtier fossil fuel in terms of emissions. But natural gas is a fossil fuel, too, and burning more natural gas than is needed to simply replace coal will result in more carbon emissions. But electricity wasn't the main culprit. Transportation was.

300 comments

  1. OH NOES!!! GLOBAL WARMING!!!! by WCMI92 · · Score: 0, Troll

    Of course this never happens. But we still need to raise your taxes. For the good of the collective, comrade.

    --
    Corporatism != Free Market
    1. Re:OH NOES!!! GLOBAL WARMING!!!! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      So... lower taxes and having to deal with the shit instead yourself is better? Who are you that you can afford this?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:OH NOES!!! GLOBAL WARMING!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    3. Re:OH NOES!!! GLOBAL WARMING!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't want to call you an idiot and insult all the real idiots out there by having called you an idiot,
      but you sir, you rank lower than anything that could be categorized as an idiot.
      Thank you for existing and making the world a funnier place by proclaiming your arrogant ignorance and stupidity.
      It was wonderful.
      Thank you.

      captcha : cherub

    4. Re:OH NOES!!! GLOBAL WARMING!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think generally, yes.

      People that can will. People that can't won't be left behind or hurt by large spending initiatives and programs that have unintended consequences or poorly thought out life cycles.

      Who are you that you can afford this?

      The irony is that a lot of the green initiatives are hard on the poor. EV's are a prime example. It's great that they are becoming more popular and the costs are coming down. But those aren't really a good solution for the poor because the used EV market hasn't had time to be created, yet. However, the rising tax (on gas or other taxable sources) to cover the infrastructure maintenance that EV do not pay are felt more directly by the poor.

      CA requiring solar panels on houses is another. While it's laudable it hurts the poor. Sadly, too many on /. think "only 10k more on your house isn't a big issue. It'll pay for it self in a few decades" isn't really helping poor either. It's a struggle enough to get a house and 10k, while not a lot in regards to a mortgage, can be enough price a house out of a pool of buyers. There are other costs, like maintenance, that are also dismissed as "it's not that much" seemingly disregarding the reality of what it's like to be poor. All that CA did was make it harder for poor people to get a house in CA and exacerbated their housing market problems. It's great virtue signaling but hurts poor people.

      It's better to allow people to make the choice themselves instead of ignoring basic economics and unintended consequences.

    5. Re:OH NOES!!! GLOBAL WARMING!!!! by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You're going to cover the poor's medical bills when the air becomes worse than in China and "drinking" water is at best available in supermarkets anymore? Or is that part of the win-win situation where they die off early to take pressure off the job and housing market?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:OH NOES!!! GLOBAL WARMING!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That isn't going to happen. We still have those regulations which is why it is more expensive to manufacture goods in the US than China. Calm down.

      Those emission standards are not going to go away. Republicans created the EPA. Republicans created environmental protection before it was hijacked by emotional hippies. Emotional hippies do more damage to the environment than Republicans. Democrats can't convince others why more regulation that is not backed by science is needed and then use executive overreach to get their political agenda met damages the EPAs ability to create science based regulation and peoples trust in the EPA.

      People want a better life. Taking that away from them in the name of global warming is wrong. Ignoring the reality of economics and personal responsibility is wrong and will cause more harm to your cause.

    7. Re:OH NOES!!! GLOBAL WARMING!!!! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Personal responsibility is a good thing if, and only if, the people actually have a chance to better their lot. This was true in the US for the longest time, but in the past 20 years or so, I don't really see that opportunity anymore.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    8. Re: OH NOES!!! GLOBAL WARMING!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you are fucking blind.

      Less than 0.01% of the population is homeless, compared to almost 20% worldwide.

      Poverty in America has been almost entirely abolished, to the point that we had to redefine it because the old definition is now meaningless within the country. Our poorest and most vulnerable populations are dying of obesity-related diseases from over-eating and access to luxuries only kings could afford 150 years ago.

      Your world-is-ending everything-is-awful fear mongering is just that. Your assertions and opinions are diametrically opposite of reality.

      In summary, fuck off.

    9. Re:OH NOES!!! GLOBAL WARMING!!!! by jbengt · · Score: 1

      Republicans created the EPA. Republicans created environmental protection before it was hijacked by emotional hippies.

      Wrong.
      "Republicans" (actually a Democratic majority House & Senate along with the Republican president Nixon) created the EPA in response to the environmentalists, or "emotional hippies" as you call them.

    10. Re:OH NOES!!! GLOBAL WARMING!!!! by RoccamOccam · · Score: 2

      From www.epa.gov:

      In early 1970, as a result of heightened public concerns about deteriorating city air, natural areas littered with debris, and urban water supplies contaminated with dangerous impurities, President Richard Nixon presented the House and Senate a groundbreaking 37-point message on the environment. These points included:

      • requesting four billion dollars for the improvement of water treatment facilities;
      • asking for national air quality standards and stringent guidelines to lower motor vehicle emissions;
      • launching federally-funded research to reduce automobile pollution;
      • ordering a clean-up of federal facilities that had fouled air and water;
      • seeking legislation to end the dumping of wastes into the Great Lakes;
      • proposing a tax on lead additives in gasoline;
      • forwarding to Congress a plan to tighten safeguards on the seaborne transportation of oil; and
      • approving a National Contingency Plan for the treatment of oil spills.

      Around the same time, President Nixon also created a council in part to consider how to organize federal government programs designed to reduce pollution, so that those programs could efficiently address the goals laid out in his message on the environment.

      Following the council’s recommendations, the president sent to Congress a plan to consolidate many environmental responsibilities of the federal government under one agency, a new Environmental Protection Agency. This reorganization would permit response to environmental problems in a manner beyond the previous capability of government pollution control programs:

    11. Re:OH NOES!!! GLOBAL WARMING!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Snowflakes is a term used to reference the LEFT not the right

      People on the right aren't snowflakes? The same people who throw a fit if you wish them Happy Holidays? The same people who cry tears over the American flag that they wouldn't cry for their fellow citizens? The same people who throw a fit if they see two guys kissing? The same people who said they don't want anyone governing in Washington, so they elected someone to shut everything down? Hell, they were just sooooo damned upset that they elected someone clearly unqualified to the presidency for no other reason than the "fuck you" value.

      Face it, both sides have plenty of crybabies.

    12. Re:OH NOES!!! GLOBAL WARMING!!!! by Kyr+Arvin · · Score: 1

      However, the rising tax (on gas or other taxable sources) to cover the infrastructure maintenance that EV do not pay are felt more directly by the poor.

      Gas taxes have always been regressive, hitting the poor far harder than other segments of society. Look for gas taxes to be phased out and spread out through society in different ways. The existence of EVs isn't really going to change that.

    13. Re: OH NOES!!! GLOBAL WARMING!!!! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Odd. I thought you'd orient yourself to be at the pinnacle and spearhead of human development. Of course, if you prefer to compare your country to the likes of Somalia and Bangladesh instead of Sweden and Germany, you're doing really well, I agree.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    14. Re:OH NOES!!! GLOBAL WARMING!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need to read a bit more.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      "Beginning in the late 1950s and through the 1960s, Congress reacted to increasing public concern about the impact that human activity could have on the environment.[10][11][12] Senator James E. Murray introduced a bill, the Resources and Conservation Act (RCA) of 1959, in the 86th Congress. The 1962 publication of Silent Spring by Rachel Carson alerted the public about the detrimental effects on the environment of the indiscriminate use of pesticides.[13]

      In the years following, similar bills were introduced and hearings were held to discuss the state of the environment and Congress's potential responses. In 1968, a joint House–Senate colloquium was convened by the chairmen of the Senate Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs, Senator Henry M. Jackson, and the House Committee on Science and Astronautics, Representative George P. Miller, to discuss the need for and means of implementing a national environmental policy. In the colloquium, some members of Congress expressed a continuing concern over federal agency actions affecting the environment.[14]

      The National Environmental Policy Act of 1969 (NEPA)[15] was modeled on the Resources and Conservation Act of 1959 (RCA).[16] RCA would have established a Council on Environmental Quality in the office of the President, declared a national environmental policy, and required the preparation of an annual environmental report.[17][18][19][20]"

      James E Murray - Democrat
      Henry M Jackson - Democrat
      George P Miller - Democrat

    15. Re: OH NOES!!! GLOBAL WARMING!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Free market dogma, friend. Free market dogma. What about supply and demand? Don't prices go down when demand is weak, i.e. companies have to swallow the cost of regulations the increase production costs? Health and safety and environmental regulations benefit the many at the expense of the few, i.e. they eat into profits rather than increase prices. Companies make a big song and dance about raising prices initially but they soon go back down if there's any competition.

    16. Re: OH NOES!!! GLOBAL WARMING!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, we're certainly not experiencing a 530% increase in grenade attacks, 390% increase in rapes, or 890% increase in acid attacks in the last 5 years, but maybe we can elect a Democrat in 2020 to catch up.

    17. Re:OH NOES!!! GLOBAL WARMING!!!! by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      Hello Strawman! Glad to see you're back in the argument!

  2. Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thank you Mr Trump.

    1. Re:Can every US citizen say... by bobbied · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Thank you Mr Trump.

      Yes, Thank you. Why? Because instead of suppressing our economy and lowering emissions by making us all poorer in actual standards of living, he has got the economy growing faster than inflation and our population for the first time in at least a decade.

      Now I'm all for being careful with the environment though conservation and technological means to reduce emissions as much as we can, but I'm for a strong economy that keeps us competitive with the rest of the world as it's of strategic importance. We cannot unilaterally disarm, either militarily or economically if we wish to preserve both our freedoms and a reasonable standard of living for ourselves and our posterity.

      China would be more than willing to sacrifice their environment to rule us, Russia would to. Do you really believe that the fall of the USA would be a good thing for the world? That death and wide spread destruction would not follow our demise? What's worse then?

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=13197096&cid=57930500

    3. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Smidge204 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > And thank you for understanding that no amount of taxes and regulations on the United States will cause the biggest polluters in India and China to reduce their output

      "Well those guys over there are pissing in the pool, so why should I stop?"

      That's the logic here, in a nutshell.
      =Smidge=

    4. Re:Can every US citizen say... by tsqr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      China would be more than willing to sacrifice their environment to rule us, Russia would to. Do you really believe that the fall of the USA would be a good thing for the world? That death and wide spread destruction would not follow our demise? What's worse then?

      Apparently you haven't been paying attention. There is a large and growing segment of society that believes the US is the source of all evil in the world, and that the downfall of the US is the best thing that could possibly happen. It would be funny in a dark, twisted way, if it wasn't so tragic.

    5. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are called, "Democrats".

    6. Re:Can every US citizen say... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Except that coal is more expensive - even if you pay less per kWh at best you are just pushing the cost onto someone else's lungs.

      Trying to use India and China as an excuse is ridiculous. They are doing massive amounts to reduce their output, and if 2.5 billion people all adopted your lifestyle you would be completely screwed. China's emissions per capita are half of yours.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:Can every US citizen say... by GregMmm · · Score: 0, Troll

      Yup I agree, there's a large and growing segment of people who believe the US is evil. The same ones that have always thought the US was evil. They're just getting it on and having more babies than the rest of us.

      Please respond back explaining why you think the US having it's "downfall" would be the best thing to happen. Sounds like you had more to say, I mean this large and growing segment had more to say...

    8. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      To be honest, it would have been Bush and Co. who deregulated the gas companies and made it cheap, as as San Bruno unfortunately found out in 2010.. I notice you didn't list Russia among heavy polluters - I wonder why.

    9. Re:Can every US citizen say... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Suppressing the economy? Let's see, coal is on government welfare to keep going, you had to bail out all the old auto manufacturers but Tesla made you a nice return on your investment, and renewables are a massive and rapidly growing new source of jobs and GDP.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You have completely left reality. The USA is still many times lower in population but 2nd overall and the highest per capita in the world.

      Country 2016 kton CO2
      China 10432751.35
      USA 5011686.62
      India 2533638.05

      Maybe you are fine with shitting in the pool but not all of us want to live like you do: surrounded by filth.

    11. Re:Can every US citizen say... by guacamole · · Score: 3, Insightful

      China would be more than willing to sacrifice their environment to rule us, Russia would to.
      China's per capita carbon emisions are about one third of the USA. Russia's per capita emissions are about 4/5 of the USA. It's pretty disingeneous to demand that China, which still has a long way to go in terms of economic development, slashes or freezes its emissions while the USA continues having one of the highest emission rates in the world. We on par with Saidi Arabia.

    12. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Ichijo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Are you trolling or do you actually believe that protecting the environment for future generations requires harming the economy?

      Hanlon's Razor says I should assume the latter, so this will probably go over your head, but people smarter than you and I agree that correcting market failures such as negative externalities makes the market work better, not worse.

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    13. Re: Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its the American way. If you standardize pollutive behavior

    14. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think it might be fair to thank trump for killing expensive coal... after all under his watch we are at the lowest coal consumption in nearly 40 years...
      https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=37817

      I think it's fair to thanks trump for being so inept as to completely fail to even remotely be able to follow up on campaign promises we now use less coal than we have in decades!

    15. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The environment doesn't give two fucks about per-capita emissions. Total is all that matters. Science matters.

      What you are doing is hate-fueled politics.

    16. Re:Can every US citizen say... by slack_justyb · · Score: 2

      it would only harm U.S. jobs and standards of living

      You know this kind of mentality makes me think of the old adage of "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". It's funny to see how many people don't see how not being able to predict when to grow things will affect food supply in any one country. Oh well, sorry future people of the planet, hate that you will have to spend an endless amount of money solving basic everyday tasks that our rapacious greed and ephemeral way of life took for granted. If it makes any of you all feel better, we weren't the only ones apparently doing it, so that makes it okay that we didn't do anything either.

    17. Re:Can every US citizen say... by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      It's pretty disingeneous to demand that China, which still has a long way to go in terms of economic development, slashes or freezes its emissions while the USA continues having one of the highest emission rates in the world.

      Why is that? Certainly its easier to not start doing something than it is to stop / give up doing it. Is that fair to folks in China, maybe not but the truth is we can't probably cut emissions enough to appreciable slow, let alone break out of the co2 driven climate change cycle. So we should harm ourselves trying? It would be better to just acknowledge we are going to have to adapt to a changing climate and solve those problems

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    18. Re:Can every US citizen say... by randallman · · Score: 4, Informative

      China has already installed over 165 GW (equiv to about 200 or NG plants), 40 of which was installed this year. The original target was 105GW, which they blew past and now are considering a 210-270 GW target by 2020. Also, due to gov. incentives, China has the largest EV market in the world, with over 1 million sold to date and they're just maturing. Shenzhen, with 13 million people, runs 100% electric buses. https://www.pv-magazine.com/20...

      The narrative that China and India are polluting to gain economic advantage is just RW radio garbage. They realize that fossil fuels are a dead end and the country with the most advancements in growing renewable energy market will prosper. We should be leading, but instead we're falling further behind and ceding the lead to China.

      Trump has no agenda - any fool can see. He only cares about his "ratings" and "brand" (his words). He just regurgitates whatever Fox News, Hannity, and Limbaugh say, which reinforces what that audience saw on TV or heard on the radio. Just as Pruitt set out to destroy the EPA and hand it over to the regulated, this administration has sold the government to the highest bidder. Many of those companies that lobbied for tax cuts used those profits to buy back stocks, pay executives bonuses, then they continued to lay off and outsource workers. https://www.theguardian.com/us... https://www.techdirt.com/artic...

    19. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought the reason less coal was being used in the US was because natural gas, oil, solar and wind are less expensive per KWH

    20. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they can't. They're too busy having asthma attacks due to the pollution damage to their lungs.

    21. Re:Can every US citizen say... by gtall · · Score: 1

      Trump "has got the economy growing faster than inflation and our population for the first time in at least a decade"?

      Really, so those eye-popping deficits over the last 8 years had nothing to do with it? Gee, add a bunch of extra money to the economy, and cut interest rates to near zero for years, and the economy takes off. Who'd have thunk it? Not you.

    22. Re:Can every US citizen say... by tsqr · · Score: 1

      Please respond back explaining why you think the US having it's "downfall" would be the best thing to happen.

      I would just say "Woooosh", but it's overused. I really thought the last sentence in my comment made it clear that I don't subscribe to the viewpoint of that 'large and growing segment of society. Maybe you didn't read that far?

    23. Re:Can every US citizen say... by mspohr · · Score: 1

      China is cleaning up their fossil fuel use at an astounding rate and this is a great stimulus to their economy. (They're world leader in electric cars, solar panels and nuclear power). The US, OTOH, is pushing for more coal, oil and NG which is a dead end (literally, as it is killing people) and at the same time turns the economy into a dead end. Investments in renewable energy, cleaner air and water and combating climate change are a boon to the economy. China realizes this but our government is corrupted by fossil fuel companies whose greed is destroying our country.
      China is already far along the way to dominate the US. The US is becoming a backwater. China is leading in the technologies which will dominate this century.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    24. Re:Can every US citizen say... by bobbied · · Score: 2

      Tesla made you a nice return on your investment.

      Hmmm.. You mean the $7,500 tax credit for 200K vehicles or the $500 Million loan that they paid off? Or the sum total of 2 Billion in federal money Tesla has enjoyed?

      Actually the ROI was JUST the interest on the half a billion, which was low and federally guaranteed and is more than washed out by the half a billion dollars in tax credits handed out so far (which we are still going to give out, though to a lesser degree for awhile yet).

      I think Tesla's share holders have made more money than the Fed on this venture....And they haven't made all that much yet really.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    25. Re:Can every US citizen say... by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The environment doesn't give two fucks about per-capita emissions.

      Science can be used to explain why the developing world is polluting more in spite of doing more to reduce pollution. You're correct that the total is what matters, but it's not reasonable to expect those nations to change overnight — especially given that the rest of us aren't exactly doing all we can, either. And if we really want them to improve rapidly, maybe we should help them do it, because after all,

      Total is all that matters.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    26. Re:Can every US citizen say... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It's pretty disingeneous to demand that China, which still has a long way to go in terms of economic development, slashes or freezes its emissions

      Economic development is a poor excuse. The environment doesn't care what your goals were, it only cares what you put into it. It doesn't matter how developed your nation is, you should be minimizing pollution.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    27. Re: Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Trump says offensive and horrible things, therefore I can be offensive and evil too."
      - The American Left, circa 2019

    28. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > And thank you for understanding that no amount of taxes and regulations on the United States will cause the biggest polluters in India and China to reduce their output

      "Well those guys over there are pissing in the pool, so why should I stop?"

      That's the logic here, in a nutshell.
      =Smidge=

      I mean...when the pool is full of piss the logic checks out. Remember that the one guy who refuses out of some principal still gets to swim in a pool of piss only with a full bladder. Please try and convince any reasonable person to be THAT guy.

    29. Re: Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Man" who constantly argues for socialism and welfare argues against socialism and welfare when expedient. News at 11.

    30. Re: Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "B-b-but Obama inherited the George Bush economy! It's not his fault!"

      "B-b-but Trump had nothing to do with the largest economic gains in generations! It was post-Obama's legacy!"

      Do you realize how fucking retarded you look?

    31. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We are in a prisoner's dilemma and know the other guy has already defected. To do anything else would be foolish and useless.

    32. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you go to a special Idiot School, or are you just naturally this dumb?
      The Other Guys are doing it, so I guess we can be filthy polluters too, LOL, not like it's our generations' problem, let someone else clean up our mess, LOL!
      Immature much? FFS at least TRY to think past the Next Week, okay?

    33. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is the proposed ways open the doors to further corruption that will indeed cost us all more. It's naive to think otherwise after looking at the proposals. There are some crony issues to solve before anything can really work as it should, and fixing those will fix lots of things.

    34. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That large and growing segment of society are welcome to try and make their wishes come true. Of course, they will have to face the rather unpleasant fact that the US is ready, willing and able to defend itself. We're standing here. Come on. We're standing here. Make your move. (crickets).

    35. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Two wrongs don't make a right.

      The correct, albeit expensive approach would be to phase out coal and gas as fast as possible to save energy. Instead gas plants are still cheaper to operate than coal (wow something from SimCity is true) and have the emissions reduction as a net benefit, instead of trying to chase "lowering emissions" as the end goal.

      Like there are a plenty of things that should be done to lower emissions, and some of these are expensive:

      1) Phase out gasoline and diesel cars by having refueling infrastructure built and phasing out fossil fuel refueling (gas stations) from city cores. You can have them at the edges, thus only people who need a gas car already will use one, and gas will only be used for long distance trips and not short ones in the city.

      2) Phase out coal and natural gas as an energy-generation fuel. Natural gas should be burned for heat, and heat alone, and only as a secondary fuel (eg hot water, cooking, and fireplaces) when electricity is generated by green sources (eg wind, solar, hydro, geothermal) and never as a primary fuel for electricity.

      3) Phase out the single-occupancy vehicle. Ideally we would have some kind of "personal transport vehicle" that is fully automated, picks people/parcels up and drops them off without ever having to own the vehicle, and the vehicles just go sit in parkades at the edge of the city near their refueling/recharging infrastructure when not in use, keeping the roads clear. For mass transit, subways would connect all major points of interests (hospitals, airports, ferries, convention centers, shopping malls, universities, colleges, high schools) and automated buses would connect smaller businesses to the central business districts, or residents to their central residential hub. For PTP hopefully, drones get smarter so that small aircar's can transport a person point-to-point. So you have three primary means of transportation. PTV (Personal Transport Vehicle), MTV (Mass Transport Vehicle), and PTPTV (Point to Point Transport Vehicle.) Don't bother owning a car anymore.

      4) Phase out Jet-based air travel and go back to blimp-style air travel (solar powered) as more like a cruise. Make high speed rail competitive with air travel and air travel will become less popular, and thus all the energy saved by not producing jet fuel.

      5) Phase out transcontinental shipping of products that can be produced locally through automation. 3D printers exist, just about any plastic sprocket, widget or bolt can be made as-needed, so why do we still hire china to produce all these shitty plastic (fossil fuel) things?

      So the you will see three repeated keywords there "efficiency" by choosing better, more reliable tech that in turn uses less energy.

      The reason emissions go up in the US has a lot more to do with government unwillingness to stop subsidizing inefficient things. The federal government should halt all subsidies that involve transportation (everything from corn/ethanol to light rail funding) and instead directly pick a winner and standardize on it. High Speed Rail is a clear winner, but it requires an actual commitment to rebuilding the rail system to support it (thus nationalizing it) or only funding one specific domestic manufacturer (eg Boeing, Bombardier)'s designs, and mandating that everything produced fit that spec, since we're committing to it for the next 100 years.

    36. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What does this have to do with increases in emissions dude?
      It sounds like you have an axe to grind; fine, address the issue in the article(!)

    37. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a large and growing segment of society that believes the US is the source of all evil in the world

      Not all evil of course, but a lot of it, beginning in about 1945 when Japan was willing to surrender but Truman decided instead to start a nuclear arms race.

      Truman was a Democrat, so if a liberal ever tries to convince you that the US is the source of all evil, you can point the finger right back at them!

    38. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      OMG, we're not allowed to ever harm US jobs or standards of living, so screw the planet! We should not get into the trap of saying "until everyone else follows the rules, we don't have to follow the rules", because that inevitably causes to no one following any rules.

      There's nothing wrong with taking the lead instead of following behind and waiting to see what China does.

    39. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Smidge204 · · Score: 1

      Except there is demonstrable benefit to reducing the total amount of CO2 (piss) being released into the atmosphere (pool). Even if "they" don't stop, there is still a strong incentive for "us" to stop.

      It also sets a good example and puts us in an ethically superior position to pressure them into stopping.

      It should be noted that "they" (China) are hell for leather converting to renewable energy. If the US didn't have our heads up our collective asses, we could have been the one selling the world solar panels and wind turbines and battery technology... but because some very deep pockets decided it benefits them to maintain the status quot, and a bunch of idiots buy into the propaganda, we are being left behind.
      =Smidge=

    40. Re: Can every US citizen say... by Smidge204 · · Score: 1

      Nope, sorry. By refusing to extend respect and civility towards others, you forfeit all expectations to receive any yourself.

      Stop being a lying, violent, racist shithead and we'll stop treating you like one.

      Until then, go fuck yourself. We're tired of your bullshit.
      =Smidge=

    41. Re: Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "B-b-but I can be dehumanizing towards other humans, call for their deaths, be a sniveling racist and sexist, lie and steal, and work openly to destroy the country of my birth.. Because Trump called Rosie O'Donnell fat!"
      - You, circa 1 hour ago

    42. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Bender0x7D1 · · Score: 1

      I don't see the benefit of being the only one not pissing in the pool. i.e. Being the only ones to massively reduce our CO2.

      Why? Because we know that catastrophic issues start to happen at 2C of warming. That will happen globally, and not just in countries that continue with high CO2 output. It doesn't matter if we have 3.1C of warming or "only" 3.0C of warming - the catastrophic issues will still happen. So, why should we pay trillions of dollars when we (and the world) will still get 95% of the problems - but only the U.S. will get the bill.?

      As a car analogy... It doesn't matter if we are driving towards a cliff at 75 MPH or just 55 MPH or even 10 MPH. If we get to the cliff Bad Things happen to everyone in the car. So, the U.S. could go to zero emissions and slow the climate change car from 75 MPH to 55 MPH, but we still hit that cliff - and the U.S. ends up paying trillions on top of everything else.

      --
      Reading code is like reading the dictionary - you have to read half of it before you can go back and understand it.
    43. Re:Can every US citizen say... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      It's pretty disingeneous to demand that China, which still has a long way to go in terms of economic development, slashes or freezes its emissions

      Economic development is a poor excuse.

      Is it? Shall we just forget economic development and go back to pre-1900's non-industrialized ways of living that don't pollute enough to cause global warming? If we do that, are you going to volunteer to pick the 2/3rds of the worlds population that we will have to eliminate? Are you willing to die?

      I may be pushing the logical limits of my argument a bit, but that's pretty much what you are saying, that we need to forego economic development and the standard of living that it allows. I'm not so sure that's a good idea.

      Do we need to be careful and not squander our environment and resources, but we simply cannot sacrifice our economy and thus our freedom and security either.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    44. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Smidge204 · · Score: 1

      It matters because it impacts how quickly that tipping point is reached, and how quickly the changes happen. You are wrong in your thinking; It's not as if there will be no problems until we hit 2C and BAM! we're fucked... it's a process, and if we can slow down that process it buys us more time to mitigate the problems and lessens their severity.

      In other words, to correct your car analogy we need not a cliff but another, oncoming car.

      Even if the other guy doesn't slow down, slowing down yourself will lower the severity of the crash and maybe give you an extra split second to swerve to make a head-on collision less direct.

      It should also be mentioned that reducing CO2 emissions by way of alternate technologies is actually a net positive economically, in the long term, so your argument also falls flat on that front. it only seems more expensive if you are unable or unwilling to see the economics of it beyond a few year's time.
      =Smidge=

    45. Re:Can every US citizen say... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      How many ways can you be wrong? Shesh, China is burning more and more coal and destroying their environment at a frightening pace of late. Yes, they produce a lot of the "green" stuff they sell to us, but they are making a huge environmental impact while they do and polluting with reckless abandon as they industrialize their country.

      Don't hold them up as a paragon of environmental virtue.. They are literally a mess... Worse than the US ever was.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    46. Re: Can every US citizen say... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      No president has any control over short term economic outlooks, yet every president is quite ready to take credit when the economy looks good and pass blame when it looks bad.

    47. Re:Can every US citizen say... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Are you trolling or do you actually believe that protecting the environment for future generations requires harming the economy?

      It's not an either or situation here. We can be both careful about our environment and develop our economy, in fact we largely are. We've come a LONG way from the start of the industrialization age here in the USA where pollution wasn't a concern at all, nobody cared, to where we are today. We've cleaned up our air, water and land in many respects and undone much of the mindless damage we caused previously.

      However, the PROBLEM is the suggested solutions being advanced for today's environmental problems all seem to be rooted in something other than actually helping the environment and usually involve an all or nothing approach. They are unbalanced, don't consider the economics of the situation or the impact to the average person. For instance, advocates that say we should stop burring fossil fuels... There is zero way that we could do that, even with a decade's notice, without collapsing our economy in a bad way. Yet, I hear this discussed all the time.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    48. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      Why not a market based solution like Fee and Dividend?

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    49. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The annual capacity factor of solar is around 0.2, so with 165GW of nameplate capacity they've effectively installed around 33GW of equivalent coal/gas/nuclear/hydro generation - technologies that are able to generate at maximum output 24 hours a day.

    50. Re: Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahaha perfect analogy!

      In a car collision, energy is transferred between the two bodies.

      Two cars both traveling at 100 miles per hour will experience a 100 mph energy crash, identical to one car striking a solid wall at 100 mph.

      Now if one car is traveling at 80 and the other 120, the slower vehicle experiences a dramatically worse crash, but transfers only 80 mph of energy to the faster car.

      Now, back to your hilariously retarded analogy... You want us to be the loser. You want us to absorb the majority of harm, while the other car is allowed to travel at whatever rate they want, because they aren't white and you hate yourself.

    51. Re:Can every US citizen say... by david-bo · · Score: 1

      The relevant measurement is emissions per capita not per country. Why is this so difficult to understand for passportless Americans?

    52. Re: Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, you just proved his point.

    53. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I smell ...Smarm. Smarminess in overwhelming quantities.
      Do you know why those "passportless Americans" are not doing what you want?
      Because you are openly dismissive of them and treat them like retarded children.

      If I was having a discussion with you, and kept referring to you as "Dickhead":, wouldn't you immediately think less of what I'm saying?
      We all learned this in kindergarten, it may be the whole class society of Europe that causes this: You can't have peons and servants anymore, so it's dumb americans....

    54. Re: Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    55. Re:Can every US citizen say... by strikethree · · Score: 1

      "Well those guys over there are pissing in the pool, so why should I stop?"

      It is more like pissing in the ocean. Everyone has to piss. There is no way to stop it and we all have to live in it. To stretch the metaphor really far: As long as it is only whales, fish, etc in the oceans, everything should stay okay, but as humans, we can create things that have to piss more than all the humans in the world combined. And we are making millions of them.

      See? The pool idea does not really fit because you can just get out of the pool and go take a piss elsewhere. We can't just get out of the planet. We eat and drink where we shit and piss. So far, the scale of the planet has been enough to "process" the waste products naturally. We have hit that limit in atmospheric chemistry.

      We laughed at the idea of anyone buying water in bottles for drinking purposes. Why? Water is fucking free. It flows everywhere. We have drinking fountains that do not ask for payment. Why would anyone buy bottled water? Well, get ready for bottled air! We already have "oxygen bars". I imagine it shouldn't be too much longer until you can purchase premium air in a bottle. 100 years? With Beijing being the way it is, it may start earlier there. They are already wearing (ineffective) masks.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    56. Re:Can every US citizen say... by strikethree · · Score: 1

      China's per capita carbon emisions are about one third of the USA.

      Wow! Really? All I have to do is encourage my poor farmers to breed like rabbits and I can then run dirty industries and make billions of dollars from them and everyone will give me a free pass because 90% of the citizens in my country live off the land and have essentially zero impact on the environment?

      I really do love this whole per capita thing. It really captures the truth of the picture. I mean yeah, that poor subsistence farmer has nothing at all to do with that iPhone factory, but if we can lay some portion of the blame on that farmer, then we can appear to be better than we are concerning emissions.

      So, if we fuck like rabbits here in the USA and we end up with 3 billion people to spread the blame over, we can look even better than China and run more dirty factories? After all, it does reduce the per-capita pollution numbers even if it fucking increases the overall pollution. After all, it is not the pollution that matters. No. What matters is how many people we can spread the blame over. No, the person who decides to run a business that dumps chemicals into the environment is not to blame. No. He gets to include his neighbors as partially to blame too.

      I am sure that neighbor won't get pissed off being blamed for his neighbors spewing shit into the environment. The neighbor did petition city council, engaged in lawsuits, etc to stop the fucker from polluting, but it is appropriate to blame the neighbor because the neighbor obviously didn't do enough to stop it.

      I will die on this hill. Measuring industrial pollution in a per-capita manner is absolutely fucking dishonest. You want to do per-capita pollution measurement? Then do it against what society as a whole is doing, not what specific segments of society are doing. Until then, this is all bullshit. I don't dump chemicals in my fucking rivers, but other Americans do and I can't fucking stop them. Stop fucking blaming me. Per-capita my ass.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    57. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Kyr+Arvin · · Score: 1

      You have completely left reality. The USA is still many times lower in population but 2nd overall and the highest per capita in the world.

      I've tried making that argument before, but Slashdot has lots of folks who believe per-capita does not matter; only total generation per country matters.

    58. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Kyr+Arvin · · Score: 1

      Poe's Law is unfortunately correct. You say something crazy, and you will get plenty of people coming out of the woodwork who believe you and legitimately think "What this guy said, yes, that's the truth I believe in!"

    59. Re: Can every US citizen say... by Kyr+Arvin · · Score: 1

      "B-b-but Trump had nothing to do with the largest economic gains in generations! It was post-Obama's legacy!"

      I'd give Trump more of the benefit of the doubt if the economy wasn't roaring the same amount in the final year or two of Obama's presidency. Trump made a point of it, saying on the campaign trail that the stock market couldn't be trusted, how the Obama boom was all smoke and mirrors. Of course, as soon as 2017 rolled around, he pulled a 180 and took credit for it all.

    60. Re:Can every US citizen say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The environment doesn't give two fucks about per-capita emissions. Total is all that matters. Science matters.

      What you are doing is hate-fueled politics.

      Unless we go the only obvious option and kill a couple of people to get CO2 emissions down. Then the obvious choice is Americans. Science for the win!

  3. Let's translate from supply side to demand side... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let's just say it is because Americans are greedy selfish individuals that think that if you can't drive an SUV/pickup, live in a McMansion, fly to extravagant locations, and eat beef every day, you aren't living the American Dream.

    For many liberals, one can lie to oneself and say that technology needs to improve and we need more alternative energy.
    For many conservatives, one can line to oneself and say that climate change isn't real.

    It's not fashionable to actually own it and say that American lifestyle of endless consumerism isn't sustainable.

  4. Economy rises, emissions rise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    News at eleven
    Why Are you surprised when a known coupling occurs ?

    1. Re:Economy rises, emissions rise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who said they were surprised?

      Rhodium Group is pointing out the data so that more people become aware of it. They are not claiming to be surprised by the data.

  5. Brarrrp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stop eating so many cheese burgers and we won't need to have so many cows.

    We're willing to make compromises, we assumed you wanted to have hot running water and cheese burgers. So something else has to go.

    1. Re:Brarrrp by Kyr+Arvin · · Score: 1

      Stop eating so many cheese burgers and we won't need to have so many cows.

      It's already started. America now has 1.2 billion pounds of excess cheese — and nowhere to put it. That sounds weird, but the jist of the story is that the US has a LOT of processed cheese. A ridiculous amount. This is because processed cheese lasts a very long time, so excess milk could be turned into processed cheese. There's plenty of excess milk because Americans are drinking much less milk: 149 lb/capita in 2017, down from 247 lb/capita in 1975. Less milk drinking == farm closures and dairy folks trying to figure out what to do with the cheese.

  6. Reap what you sow. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Liberals reap what they sow. Get rid of coal it's so dirty.. etc. etc.. But the outcome is more burning of natural gas to make up for coals loss.

    1. Re:Reap what you sow. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The increase in emissions would have been greater if coal power plants had used instead of gas, so your point is basically that you don't like liberals and cannot think critically. Well done, you have an opinion on the internet.

    2. Re:Reap what you sow. by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1, Redundant

      It would have been less if nuclear power plants were kept in operation and/or new ones were built. But Americans are a bunch of poorly-educated, cowardly NIMBYs so that won't happen.

    3. Re:Reap what you sow. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It would have been less if nuclear power plants were kept in operation and/or new ones were built. But Americans are a bunch of poorly-educated, cowardly NIMBYs so that won't happen.

      Yes we are all poorly-educated, etc, etc. We are so dumb that we can't understand anything! Oh woe is us in the U.S. sob sob sob. If only we were as smart as you and accepted unlimited immigration and the oh so smart Paris accord we'd be so smart like you! The EU leaders are so smart and are only looking out for the good of the EU! Yes Yes Yes! Why didn't we see it before?

    4. Re:Reap what you sow. by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Quality of life, life expectancy, and CO2 emissions are all generally higher in Western Europe than in the US.

    5. Re:Reap what you sow. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And until there is enough storage capacity to cover the energy demand when it's dark, or the wind isn't blowing, or the tide is inconveniently turning, you're still going to have all of the same fossil-fuel generation capacity you had before any changeover. All you get is the ability, when the conditions are right, to take some of that CO2-producing generation out of the loop -- but it still has to be there to make up for the demand when the conditions aren't right. Or are you suggesting that we just build enough renewable generation capacity for the normal demand, and when they don't produce anything, too bad, you just sit in the dark? There are countries where you can't count on having power for more than a few hours a day; are you proposing to push the US down to them in the unwavering rush to force everyone onto renewable power without considering any of the infrastructure that is required to make it work as anything other than burst power?

    6. Re:Reap what you sow. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Huh.
      Lets see. China is now stopping adding new nuke plants (they will finish the ones they have and then stop).
      Germany and a lot of EUrope is stopping their nuke plants.
      Japan stopped it, but realized that they had to have it.
      S. Korea continues to add.

      And hey, it turns out that America is now adding new nuclear SMRs. In particular,NuScale just got an order to build 12 reactors. There are others looking at it and considering using these to replace coal. And Perry/GOP are looking at other ways to get more nuclear power going.
      So, no. Some Americans are anti-science on this, but others are not.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    7. Re: Reap what you sow. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      So are gang rapes, knife attacks, grenade attacks, acid attacks, Islamic murders, political assassination attempts, and leftist/Muslim antisemitic attacks.

      But you probably think that's just the happy price of "diversity" and clearly a strength.

    8. Re:Reap what you sow. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quality of life? Looks like UK and France are lower in this chart:
      https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2018

      Life expectancy better by one or two years, big woop - like statistical noise.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

      CO2 emissions? It looks like when you add up all of the EU countries, you get pretty much the same as the US.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions

      Look at your poor political life, your taxes, your poor healthcare, your nutter politicians (and yet you dare to pick on ours), etc., etc. Look how everyone wishes to move to the good old USA. Sorry, but just about anyone would rather live here than there!

    9. Re:Reap what you sow. by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Yes we are all poorly-educated, etc, etc. We are so dumb that we can't understand anything!

      It doesn't have to be all, it just have to be a majority of those who vote, locally or nationally.

    10. Re:Reap what you sow. by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Electricity can be stored for later use, you know. Cells and capacitors aren't exactly new inventions.

    11. Re:Reap what you sow. by vipvop · · Score: 1

      lol now try storing enough power for the entire US at night in batteries. You're better off doing things like pumped storage hyrdo, but then you'll have lawsuits from environmentalists and NIMBYs.

    12. Re:Reap what you sow. by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      It would have been less if nuclear power plants were kept in operation and/or new ones were built. But Americans are a bunch of poorly-educated, cowardly NIMBYs so that won't happen.

      Yeah, how dare those NIMBYs demand that utility companies run plants like Davis Besse until they were unsafe. Just because the NIMBYs demanded additional profits for the utility company shareholders.

      Perhaps you should think about what you post.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  7. How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Let's just say it is because Americans are selfish individuals that think that if you can't drive an SUV/pickup, live in a McMansion, fly to extravagant locations, and eat beef every day, you aren't living the American Dream.

    For many liberals, one can lie to oneself and say that technology needs to improve and we need more alternative energy.
    For many conservatives, one can line to oneself and say that climate change isn't real.

    It's not fashionable to actually own it and say that American lifestyle of endless consumerism isn't sustainable.

    1. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would you like to go back to living pre 1900? I certainly won't.

    2. Re:How about... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 2

      Why do we have to? We have clean sources of power like renewables and nuclear in 2018.

    3. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I still need oil and coal to do my work. So you can go stuff it.

    4. Re: How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "American" way of life? No, just the way of life of a successful populace. When other formerly poor countries develop, the start to adopt characteristics of "our" lifestyle.

      Example: China around 1980. Documentaries would rave about how the traffic was all non-polluting bicycles. Well, they developed economically and the roads are now clogged with gasoline powered vehicles.

    5. Re:How about... by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      LOL.
      DO you realize that SUV/pickups are the FASTEST growing vehicles in the world? China is buying them up faster than America. Why do you think that China's emissions increase are between 4-7%.
      McMansions? The ones that I see here, have solar panels, great insulation, and geo-thermal HVAC. Why? Because these ppl do not want to pay large utility bills.
      Fly to extravagant locations? Please. How many of you assholes are on here al the time gripping that Americans never go anywhere?
      Eat beef every day? Some do. Many do in CHina. MAny do in Europe. Hell, if not for Europe, Brazil would not be destroying their forest.

      For many of us Americans, we do things like put a solar system on our home, insulate our homes better, and drive EVs such as Tesla's.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    6. Re:How about... by sfcat · · Score: 1

      I still need oil and coal to do my work. So you can go stuff it.

      Um, what? You do know that you can make synthetic fuels with nuclear power right? What exactly do you need oil pulled from the ground for? Why can't it be man-made? Unless your work is pulling the oil from the ground, you should be fine.

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
    7. Re:How about... by Kyr+Arvin · · Score: 1

      DO you realize that SUV/pickups are the FASTEST growing vehicles in the world? China is buying them up faster than America. Why do you think that China's emissions increase are between 4-7%.

      My mother always told me that someone else acting badly is not an excuse for me to act badly.

  8. Green New Deal by rsilvergun · · Score: 0

    I think that's the only way to really drop air pollution and carbon emissions. Even if solar and wind were cheaper long term the amount of infrastructure spending needed means no private firm is going to want to jump in.

    It's like how even Microsoft can't compete with Quicken/Quickbooks because they've spend a fortune on small business accounting. You end up having to invest too much getting in the door and then you can't compete with established players because they've long since made back their investment and they're coasting on profits. That means as soon as a competitor shows up they'll just drop their pants and undercut you until you can't make your loan payments and you collapse. Nobody's gonna put up billions to take that risk when they can just buy stock in oil or gas and wait for shortages (short or long term) to make them rich...

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Green New Deal by DigiShaman · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a fucking moron that serves as a titular example of the Dunning Kruger effect in action. A "Green New Deal" would literally destroy America much like the Great Leap Forward did to China!

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    2. Re:Green New Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The Haber process now produces 450 million tonnes of nitrogen fertilizer per year, mostly in the form of anhydrous ammonia, ammonium nitrate, and urea. Three to five percent of the world's natural gas production is consumed in the Haber process (around 1–2% of the world's energy supply).In combination with pesticides, these fertilizers have quadrupled the productivity of agricultural land"

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    3. Re:Green New Deal by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      No, we NEED a green new deal here. We just do not need her idea of it.
      Perry has it correct that we need to have on-demand systems available, but these should also be clean. The would leave it as hydro, geo-thermal, and nuclear.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    4. Re: Green New Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We need environmental fascism!" sniveled the fascist.

    5. Re:Green New Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oooh, look its grandpa feeling all triggered by a intelligent woman.sad.

  9. Paris agreement? Will be toast soon in USA by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Last time I checked, we're done with the Paris agreement in 2020 (specifically on Nov 4). By trying to slip it through as an executive thing (to skip Senate ratification as a binding approval), Obama allowed the next President (Trump) to kill it, and kill it he did.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_withdrawal_from_the_Paris_Agreement

    1. Re:Paris agreement? Will be toast soon in USA by houghi · · Score: 1

      So all we need to make it clear to The Orange One that he is doing exactly what Obama wanted him to do. That way he will make CO2 illegal (or something allong those lines)

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    2. Re:Paris agreement? Will be toast soon in USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last time I checked, we're done with the Paris agreement in 2020 (specifically on Nov 4).

      Not really. As a binding national commitment, sure. But plenty of blue states and well over half the population will continue abiding by its terms without being forced to. Because they recognize it's the right thing to do. If you haven't seen the huge numbers of state and city officials clamoring to continue supporting Paris targets, you haven't been paying attention.

      Other than Texas, the states that will ignore the Paris targets are mostly rural and sparsely populated. In other words, the states with least impact anyway.

  10. I am part of that fault of more emissions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...due to natural gas...mostly methane. I upped my Taco Bell intake this year and have been ripping farts left and right.

  11. Re:Let's translate from supply side to demand side by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Funny

    But ... perpetual growth! It's mandatory for a healthy economy! Just look at all the Americans who try to participate, at least with their weight!

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  12. Paris ... yeah, right by PKI+Champion · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Climate change is more about redistributing money than about our planetary weather conditions. Paris was just another attempt to suck money out of the U.S. economy and move it to less developed countries. Breathe in, breathe out. I love the smell of good clean coal in the morning!

    1. Re:Paris ... yeah, right by jwhyche · · Score: 2

      Well your correct about most of that, except the clean coal part. Coal will never be clean, that is why it is dying out. Give it some more time and it will be completely gone.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    2. Re:Paris ... yeah, right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing would give the rest of us more satisfaction than if you were to go to a coal plant and start breathing in the exhaust fumes. It would dramatically increase your chance of dying of COPD or lung cancer. As those are both terrible, awful ways to go, they would be fitting for someone as unpleasant as you.

    3. Re:Paris ... yeah, right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Climate change is more about redistributing money than about our planetary weather conditions. Paris was just another attempt to suck money out of the U.S. economy and move it to less developed countries. Breathe in, breathe out. I love the smell of good clean coal in the morning!

      Is this sarcasm? (I fear not...)

      We are living on the same planet, so the best investment to reduce global warming may not be in your own backyard, but elsewhere on the planet. The planet doesn't care where the CO2 is emitted! /Simon

    4. Re:Paris ... yeah, right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well and the headline sucks. Natural gas emits 1/3 of the CO2 per kw/h of coal. As the last line of the summary said - the actual culprit was transportation. Likely mainly due to increased economic activity. If we murdered coal overnight by whole-hog replacing it with natural gas, that'd be good for a 10% reduction in country-wide emissions right there. We could also get another easy-to-legislate benefit if we matched road taxes to weight*miles driven, to bring the tax burden of maintaining roads in line with actual wear (18,000 times as high as current for semi-trucks). Bulk long distance freight will move over to rail which is far more fuel efficient per weight-mile.

    5. Re:Paris ... yeah, right by Stonent1 · · Score: 1

      Clean Coal only refers to the amount of junk in the coal. Dirty coal has stuff like radioactive and embedded hydrocarbon compounds and such that get released into the atmosphere during burning. The higher grade of coal, overall, the cleaner it is. With Graphite basically being the ultimate clean coal as it is just pure carbon. Clean Coal was never really about CO2 amounts.

  13. Re:Let's translate from supply side to demand side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I drive an econo-box and rent my home. I've never flown to anywhere exotic, and I eat way more chicken than beef. I thought I was living the American dream, but now I feel so ashamed. Thank you for enlightening me.

  14. Re:Let's translate from supply side to demand side by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 0

    "Growth" is another word for cancer.
    "Consumption" is another word for TB.

  15. Electrified Rail Transport by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As noted in TFS and TFA, much of the increase comes from the transportation sector, and increased demand for diesel (and jet fuel, but I repeat myself.) What's needed to make immediate improvements in transportation efficiency and emissions is electrified rail. The specifics of what that would look like vary from place to place, and situation to situation, but in general getting rid of rubber tires and adding electric motivation are things which we not only could be doing now, but could have been doing already.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:Electrified Rail Transport by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Electrify both freight and passenger routes. Hire the Chinese or French to build new high and medium speed passenger routes in the US. A lot of medium-distance air travel can be replaced by electrified rail at 150-200 mph -- rail gets rid of taxiing, takeoff/landing, etc times.

    2. Re:Electrified Rail Transport by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      LOL.
      Uh, no.

      First off, rail in America already carries the most cargo of any system in the world. The last thing that we will do is convert to expensive systems like France/China have.
      Secondly, most cargo does NOT need to be sped along. Moving at 50-60 MPH average is plenty fast.
      Third, China and France have SLOW systems for carrying ppl. 100-200 mph is fine for a small nation like France, but when you have to travel 5700 km, or in the future 15,000 km, then 100-200 mph systems are jokes.
      Finally, with hyperloop coming, it is ideal for not only ppl, but also such things as refrigeration, as well as items like first class mail.

      America will be putting a ground based passenger system, but it will not be slow/expensive/dangerous like Europe and CHina uses. The hyperloop WILL beat all that easily.

      BTW, Burlington Northern is in the process of converting from diesel-electrics to LNG-electrics. Ideally, if we restart our nuclear power with SMRs, we will probably use a combination of battery/recharging when going through slow cities/stops.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    3. Re:Electrified Rail Transport by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Burlington-Northern cargo rail is moving to LNG which makes good economic sense.
      I keep wondering if elon could make a railcar that contained a large amount of li-ion, or perhaps use a flow-battery, and then do recharging at stops and slow cities. Likewise, any braking/slowing down could be regened back.
      Seriously, if they include multiple battery/tractor in a train, they might be able to use a single LNG-electric system to keep running at a set speed and charging the battery.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    4. Re:Electrified Rail Transport by drinkypoo · · Score: 2
      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  16. Dire Dire Dire! We are all going to drown! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I love Tony Heller for debunking this nonsense.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e82smfcypUc

    1. Re:Dire Dire Dire! We are all going to drown! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You shouldnt love anyone who describes themself as " an independent thinker who is considered a heretic by the orthodoxy on both sides of the climate debate"

  17. Re:Let's translate from supply side to demand side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Go Fuck Yourself. boo hoo boo hoo America is ruining everything! you god damn fuckers cry. Well you do that till you need help or fuck your self up in some way. Then it's America come and save use from own stupidity!

    Yeah, Go Fuck Yourself. God Bless President Trump for putting you fuckers in your place.

  18. really, fashionable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's not fashionable to actually own it and say that American lifestyle of endless consumerism isn't sustainable.

    It may be fashionable to believe what you see on TV is how most Americans live.

    Fashionable? Maybe. Stupid? Certainly.

    For example, I, a simple-minded American, am fully capable of believing that not all people from Holland wear wooden clogs and live in a windmill, not all people in Germany live in gingerbread houses in the Alps and wear lederhosen, and not all people in the UK wear tophats and monocles and live in a castle. No matter how fashionable those themes may be.

  19. Not a good trend by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

    Even though emissions from passenger cars was down, emissions from planes and trucks are up. Hopefully the Tesla push to electrify trucking will come into reality on the market soon.

    1. Re:Not a good trend by sfcat · · Score: 1

      Even though emissions from passenger cars was down, emissions from planes and trucks are up. Hopefully the Tesla push to electrify trucking will come into reality on the market soon.

      Did someone hijack your account? You are one of the biggest Elon-haters I've ever seen and now you are depending on him? Maybe I just had a stroke...

      Anyway, the solution for bulk transportation isn't electrics. EVs are great for personal transport and trucking. But fuel is just too energy dense for batteries to make a dent in things like shipping and air transport. Diesel-Electric Trains are one of the most efficient ways to move things across land but they are still getting all their energy from fossil fuels.

      To actually solve the CO2 issues for transport, you need synthetic fuels made with the high heat you get from MSRs (or other more modern nuclear reactors). The feed-stock for those synthetic fuels is the hard part as that would have to be something grown but natural grasses should be able to be used (as opposed to coal which is traditionally the feed-stock for syn fuels). Its much easier than replacing all the ICEs but still has some of the particulate issues that fossil fuels have. But its a big improvement.

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
  20. China and India by jwhyche · · Score: 1

    Well as long as we are pointing fingers lets make sure that we have plenty to point at. In 2018 China was up 4.7% and India by 6.3%. An according to this report, the US is only up by 2.5%. Interesting, both are well below even the 3.5% mark of the article. But yet, we leave those out and just post a US bashing article. The EU is doing good.

    https://www.theguardian.com/en...

    --
    I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    1. Re:China and India by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Before pointing your finger in an accusatory manner, perhaps you should consider what their targets are first.

      China and India are still on the up side of the curve, no one expects them to be decreasing yet. They expect them to be slowing the rate of increase, which they are.

      Remember all that whining about how emissions targets would force the US back to pre-industrial levels of civilization? That's the reason why China and India aren't expected to immediately halt their increasing output.

      And despite all that they are still at just a fraction of the per capita emissions of the US anyway, around half.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:China and India by DarkOx · · Score: 0

      China and India are still on the up side of the curve

      So what you saying is that Trump is exactly correct this about asking us to slit our our wrist while we allow China and India to continue growth and industrialization so they can take the rest of our jobs. Thanks for being so honest.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    3. Re:China and India by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Low income Americans shouldn't improve their life because China and India are improving theirs and trying to dominate world commerce?

      Here I thought a government was supposed to put the interests of their people and their citizens before others. You are saying that the US government should ignore the issues facing poor Americans because China and India are "developing".

      Fuck you.

    4. Re:China and India by slack_justyb · · Score: 1

      Well as long as we are pointing fingers

      Or you know, how about we just don't point fingers and do something? You know, I've got an uncle who's got stage three colon cancer, I could sit here all day and say, "Welp, you spent the last 35 years of your life 100 pounds overweight. What did you think was going to happen?!" Or ya know, I could help out with taking him to chemo. Why is everyone so knotted up with playing blame games? It's what five-year olds do. Adults just get to work fixing shit.

    5. Re:China and India by jwhyche · · Score: 2, Flamebait

      No, lets just be honest. You posted this article because it bashed America. That is the real reason why you did it. You never even thought of China or India, or actually anyone else. You saw that it bashed American and you went with it. That is the reason, nothing more, and nothing less.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    6. Re:China and India by jwhyche · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      This has been my position since day one. We are all in this together. But Amjo and the rest of the EU snobbery keep the "blame America" for all the worlds problems alive an running. Constantly the same thing over and over not looking at China, India or even Africa as a source of carbon emissions. Fact is America is doing damn good right now at reducing our emissions. I'm sorry that its not up to EU standards but we refuse to sacrifice our economy to make you happy. We refuse to transfer billions of dollars to other countries just because you say so.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    7. Re:China and India by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I don't hate America. In fact, I want to see America do well because that is in everyone's interests.

      Ironically, I am often accused of loving Obama, so if anything I'd expect to be accused of hating Trump, not America. For the record I'm not hugely fond of either of them.

      If I seem to be defending your new arch enemy, China, it's only because in this case it's a gross misrepresentation of what is happening. Just as you wouldn't expect the US to stop on a dime and massively decrease emissions, you wouldn't expect China to instantly reverse direction when a large part of its population is still emerging from an agrarian way of life.

      Being critical of the US federal government does not mean I hate the US. Also, I note that you don't actually have a counter-argument to my points, just a concession.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:China and India by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is that China should be cutting back. They are well above emissions for what is needed. The problem is, that like your Germany, they continue to add more coal plants, not just replace what they have. And speaking of Germany, they will also not meet their requirements.

    9. Re:China and India by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Only if you are happy for India and China to look at the US and say "meh, they aren't making any effort, let's double/triple out per capita output and adopt their lifestyle too". Maybe you think that's okay, most scientists think it would be a global catastrophe.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re:China and India by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      India and China aren't looking at the US for guidance on AGW. They are just looking out for themselves.

    11. Re:China and India by RedK · · Score: 0

      I don't hate America.

      I bigger lie has never been told in all of Slashdot's history.

      --
      "Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
      Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
    12. Re:China and India by Lije+Baley · · Score: 1

      Not to detract from your point, but I'd just note that the blame coming from other countries seems to pale in comparison to our own self-loathing here in the U.S. Many of us feel guilty, at least subconsciously, about what we have and we want to give it away, or pay some penance. This is probably a natural behavior for people who have the luxury of being able to think more globally, and the idea seems to spread like fashion to others who themselves can barely afford it.

      Position clarification: My personal perspective is more on evolutionary and geologic time scales, so political and climate changes don't concern me much.

      --
      Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
    13. Re:China and India by jwhyche · · Score: 1

      Also, I note that you don't actually have a counter-argument to my points, just a concession.

      Actually, I did post a link to a article showing that it was 2.5% and not 3.5% so I think I did a good job there. But then again my point was not to counter-argument you. My point is simply to call you on your anti-American bullshit. Which I think I did a excellent job of.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    14. Re:China and India by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Why exactly do you think I hate America?

      Can you explain precisely what I say that makes you think I have some kind of irrational hatred of the entire country, and that I want to do it harm?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    15. Re:China and India by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      So your argument basically boils down to "fuck it, I'm doing it anyway". You know it's a bad idea, you know everyone else is trying to do the right thing (for whatever reason), but you... You just want to save a few bucks in the short term.

      Is that right? Is there some other reason?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    16. Re:China and India by sfcat · · Score: 1

      Only if you are happy for India and China to look at the US and say "meh, they aren't making any effort, let's double/triple out per capita output and adopt their lifestyle too". Maybe you think that's okay, most scientists think it would be a global catastrophe.

      This increase in CO2 is the result of what the electrical engineers who run the grid have been warning about for years. The intermittent nature of solar and wind mean that as more is deployed, you need larger and larger backup systems. Since we don't have grid scale backup from batteries or flywheels, we back it up with natural gas. And the constant spinning up and down of the gas fired plants is wasteful and inefficient but its done to prevent brown-outs and black-outs. That's why the CO2 is up even though we are constantly adding to the wind and solar deployment.

      All the conservation in the world won't prevent this from happening if we continue with this same path. The second law of thermodynamics is a bitch and efficiency only takes you so far. At some point, either we make grid scale backup of some type (batteries or flywheels) or we have to go nuclear. Batteries are expensive and are several orders of magnitude in scale less than we need. Flywheels only store power for about 6hrs which limits their usefulness. So its either nuclear or natural gas. Your choice...

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
    17. Re:China and India by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why exactly do you think I hate America?

      Can you explain precisely what I say that makes you think I have some kind of irrational hatred of the entire country, and that I want to do it harm?

      Well, I don't think I've ever seen you write anything positive about America, pretty much only constant negative criticism.

    18. Re:China and India by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      keep the "blame America" for all the worlds problems alive an running.

      Well you're the world police, the greatest country ever, and the most powerful country which can do what you please with all your military might. So maybe it's time you actually took responsibility for the world since you constantly claim to.

    19. Re:China and India by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never heard Trump say anything positive about America, but I don't hear conservatives saying he hates it.

      Also...

    20. Re:China and India by MattskEE · · Score: 1

      Viewing it that way completely misses the reality of the situation that China is still in the process of industrialization and modernization which has already taken place in countries like the USA, and that as a result of that the US emits far more CO2 per capita.

      Countries like China would not sign an agreement where the US gets to burn masses of fossil fuels for many decades to speed up industrialization (which it already has done) but other countries are not allowed to increase their emissions at all. Pretty much every nation agreed to a reasonable long term plan based on where each country was in its industrialization process.

      Your view appears excessively adversarial - this isn't about US vs. China, everybody including the US will lose if the US does not start reducing CO2 emissions. The only way we can hold China to their long term plan is to hold ourselves to our long term plan. China has more long term thinking that the US does currently, so they will probably keep to their plan anyway, and they will leapfrog over us in energy technology and infrastructure if the US stays stuck in the fossil fuel past.

    21. Re:China and India by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      If we're such innovative geniuses, we should be leading the way on emissions reduction. And if we are the ones that figure it out, we can be the ones to cost-reduce it and then profit by selling it to everyone else. Isn't that what supposedly made America great? Innovation? Problem-solving?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    22. Re:China and India by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      The intermittent nature of solar and wind mean that as more is deployed, you need larger and larger backup systems.

      What it actually means is that you have more locations where electricity is being produced to cover the gaps. It's a good point that you bring up that we need a massive deployments of wind power in many different locations.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    23. Re:China and India by strikethree · · Score: 1

      And despite all that they are still at just a fraction of the per capita emissions of the US anyway, around half.

      Grrrrrrrrrr

      So countries with small populations can never get into mass manufacturing because the per-capita pollution measurement is what matters, not the total amount of pollution.

      Let's build a hypothetical country here. It has 1,000 people in it. They manufacture a million cars per year. They get economic sanctions against them because their pollution per capita is ten thousand times higher than any other countries output.

      Lets build another hypothetical country but this one has a HUGE population. There are 50 trillion people in this country. They manufacture 2 million cars a year. Hell yeah! Let's encourage those guys. Their per-capita emissions are so low that the number is not representable except in powers of ten notation representing numbers smaller than 1.

      Now God, sitting there looking down on the world laughs his fucking ass off. These mother fuckers are actually willing to complain about the pollution that producing one million cars creates when the population of the country that built them (not drive or use, just built) is small but they are completely overjoyed at the pollution that producing 2 million cars makes... I guess because the blame can be spread amongst more people? I mean producing two millions cars creates twice as much pollution (kind of) as producing one million cars. But if you spread the blame amongst people who live in the same country but have nothing to do with the factory itself (work there, drive the cars produced there, etc), then pollution is tolerable.

      We have discussed this before. I heard your arguments but none of them helped me to understand why per-capita is a useful measurement and why it can be used to completely ignore total tonnage of pollution. If an iPhone factory is in China and the Chinese are not using iPhones and only the owner of the factory is profiting, how does the blame for the pollution created by that factory get spread out amongst a billion other Chinese citizens? This does not make sense and I can only see dishonest reasons for promulgating this bullshit. It is the factory owner that is causing that pollution, not the fucking farmers. It is the factory owner reaping the profits while polluting, not the fucking farmer. Per-capita is bullshit.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    24. Re:China and India by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Hypothetical countries do not make a very convincing argument.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  21. What?? by DarkOx · · Score: 1

    Cheap natural gas has been credited with killing coal, which is a dirtier fossil fuel in terms of emissions. But natural gas is a fossil fuel, too, and burning more natural gas than is needed to simply replace coal will result in more carbon emissions.

    What stupidity. Nobody is burning more natural gas than is needed and nobody is running coal plants just for fun. If those gas plants are coming online / being utilized to a larger part of capacity and the coal plants are not being idled or shuttered its because consumers want the power! Its not like we are generating electrical potential just ground it out because we think arc-flash is cool!

    The issue is the economy grew so despite efficiency improvements emissions grew.

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    1. Re:What?? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      These people can't even do multiplication and they're running the world's governments.

      I usually recommend this physicist, who has popularized multiplication in the context of energy usage:

      https://youtu.be/E0W1ZZYIV8o

      So far none of the econuts I talk to are willing to take cold showers - they'd be safe to ignore if they didn't control the AR-15's of federal agencies' SWAT teams.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  22. Re:And thorium... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

    Funny, the French have civilian-controlled nuclear power, and some of the cheapest energy in Europe. They just don't spend as much on their military scum and adventures abroad as the US does, so they have money to subsidize clean nuclear.

  23. Re:Let's translate from supply side to demand side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Let's just say it is because Americans are greedy selfish individuals that think that if you can't drive an SUV/pickup, live in a McMansion, fly to extravagant locations, and eat beef every day, you aren't living the American Dream.

    For many liberals, one can lie to oneself and say that technology needs to improve and we need more alternative energy.
    For many conservatives, one can line to oneself and say that climate change isn't real.

    It's not fashionable to actually own it and say that American lifestyle of endless consumerism isn't sustainable.

    Geez, more bog standard anti-American claptrap.

    Why am I surprised in a comment to a story that's already nothing more than anti-American claptrap?

    First, the US withdrew from the Paris Agreement, so whether or not the US meets its targets under that agreement is totally irrelevant.

    Second, the article singles out the US when even such "must address climate change" stalwarts such as France and Germany haven't met their targets, either.

    Third, the Paris Agreement goals don't even apply to China and India and Indonesia.

    Fourth, what Paris Agreement goals that do exist are - by the Paris Agreement itself - entirely unenforceable, making the Paris Agreement worth less than used toilet paper.

    So after you translate the Paris Agreement to reality and strip away the anti-American claptrap, you're left with a giant stinking useless turd.

    But because ORANGE MAN BAD, it's not proper to point that out.

  24. Last paragraph admits this was a one-off year by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Talk about burying the lede:

    While we don’t expect a repeat of 2018 this coming year , the data provides some important insights into the emission reduction challenges facing the US.

    The reasons they don't expect a repeat are sprinkled through the article, e.g.:

    1. The winter was extremely cold. People used more energy staying warm.
    2. The economy was roaring. People traveled more. More goods were shipped. More buildings were built.

    On top of this, and somewhat amazingly for what purports to be an independent research group, they chose to put a negative spin on the fact that, as they put it, "a record number of coal-fired power plants were retired last year" and replaced with natural gas (which our friend AmiMoJo then further spun into the sensationalist title of this article).

    At bottom, this is just more of the unfortunate stream of SlashClickbait that is gradually swamping what used to be a useful tech blog.

    1. Re:Last paragraph admits this was a one-off year by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hey, no need to make false accusations. Here is my original submission: https://slashdot.org/firehose....

      Note that the headline is different and doesn't mention gas.

      It's literally one click on my username to see my submissions. Why didn't you check? Be honest, were you triggered by seeing my name and just assumed?

      The headline the editor used is from the Ars Technica article. Although 2018 was somewhat exceptional, it wasn't so exceptional that if nothing changes 2019 will see a reduction. And also I'm kinda fed up certain people using a much, much smaller increase in the EU as an excuse or the basis of a bogus claim that no-one else is making any effort.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Last paragraph admits this was a one-off year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Rhodium group is obviously VERY Chinese oriented. I'm glad someone else sees the questionable aspects of the report. Seeing the output of the Rhodium Group, I wouldn't be surprised if the assertions are completely false. The shift from coal to nat gas has been huge. The chemistry of the two is unquestionable. I doubt that the assertions of the Rhodium Group are true at all.

    3. Re:Last paragraph admits this was a one-off year by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Troll, eh? Come forward cowardly moderator, make your case.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:Last paragraph admits this was a one-off year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You racist

    5. Re:Last paragraph admits this was a one-off year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, you can't weasel out of your sockpuppet accounts running out of modpoints this time.

      The childish tantrum you are engaged in all over this story is a testament to your character and your cause.

    6. Re:Last paragraph admits this was a one-off year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shit, just look at your post history. Most of what you post is trolling. It's clear you hate yourself almost as much as you hate the United States. I'm surprised you are still alive, frankly.

    7. Re:Last paragraph admits this was a one-off year by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

      Nice try splitting hairs. Your submission included a link to a sensationalist article about the original report, which you yourself admit included the inflammatory headline. If you disagreed with it, you would have mentioned that in your submission, linked to a different article, or even just linked to the report itself.

      But I'm sure you actually had something meaningful to say about the substance of my post and weren't just picking around the edges, right?

      Although 2018 was somewhat exceptional, it wasn't so exceptional that if nothing changes 2019 will see a reduction.

      Oh, I guess not.

      And also I'm kinda fed up certain people using a much, much smaller increase in the EU as an excuse or the basis of a bogus claim that no-one else is making any effort.

      Yes, your anti-American perspective is exceptionally well-documented.

    8. Re:Last paragraph admits this was a one-off year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's an editor so he has unlimited mod points. This makes it even more pathetic. Every one of his extremist posts gets suddenly launched up to +5 after being -1 for quite a while.

  25. Some greens LOVE natural gas by Voice+of+satan · · Score: 1

    I have not bothered with my local greens but where i came form (Some tiny country in Yurop) the greens were in love with natural gas. Funny. It probably has to do with combined cycle plants fast enough to be paired with intermittent energy sources that cannot be dispatched. Like the wind turbines they are fond of.

    1. Re:Some greens LOVE natural gas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Some tiny country in Yurop) the greens were in love with natural gas

      Russian shills, no doubt. Or some tiny country in Yurop would start uncapping its North Sea gas wells and displacing the stuff Putin sells.

    2. Re:Some greens LOVE natural gas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Greens do love natural gas, and are well-funded by gas interests. Germany really takes the cake though, trying to replace French nuclear with Russian gas.

      A minor correction: combined-cycle gas plants are more expensive and less responsive. Cheaper open-cycle turbines which are half as efficient are the preferred partner to wind and solar, even though this unholy combination emits more than combined-cycle turbines alone. (owing to the low capacity factors of intermittent sources) In reality, wind and solar are expensive ornaments for green-washing gas.

  26. Trucking could benefit from Nat Gas. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Back when gas prices were sky high at $3.50 a gallon there was a lot of interest in converting a lot of the trucking industry to compressed natural gas. In addition to being cheaper, CNG has the advantage of 1/3 lower CO2 emissions per unit energy.

    That pretty much went dead when gas prices went down to $2/gallon, and the pay back period went up. CNG is substantially better than electric for trucking, and involves smaller investment, plus it actually exists NOW. The government should be providing tax breaks and the like for converting trucks to CNG.

    1. Re:Trucking could benefit from Nat Gas. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Yes, but I believe that Burlington Northern is still heading down the path of LNG for their fuel.
      I keep wondering if batteries combined with track charging in cities would be a better choice.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  27. "Dire news" or "Fake News"? by magzteel · · Score: 2

    The report itself is a good detailed estimate of emissions from various sectors along with analysis and projections. Last year's estimate was pretty accurate so this probably is as well. But nowhere do they use the words "Dire news". That's the spin from Ars Technica.

    1. Re:"Dire news" or "Fake News"? by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      This is dire news. America went up 3.4%. Not good. What is not said is that China's increase will go up 4.7-7.0 %, and India is above that.
      Thankfully, India and Americas will be pretty low, but China's is going to be massive increase. With America's 3.4% increase on 15%, it will mean that America will add some .5% to global emissions. Worst of all, CHina emits double what America does, so that 4.7-7.0 increase will add 1.5-2.3% to Global CO2 emissions.

      BTW, India's emissions are so low, that their ~10% increase of their emissions will be less than America's (and obviously's China's).

      The one good news is that because of Trump's tariffs on China, and the slowing of their economy, it will likely bring their emissions down next year, in spite of growing EVs.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    2. Re:"Dire news" or "Fake News"? by magzteel · · Score: 1

      This is dire news. America went up 3.4%. Not good.

      "Not good" is real news. "Dire" is fake news. The report makes no such claim.
      It even says they don't expect it to repeat in 2019.

      I thought the description of where the increases came from was interesting.
      Big increases in jet and diesel fuel, some increase in gas powered electricity generation.

  28. Re:Let's translate from supply side to demand side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey Anonymous... You are full of $#!+.

    What are you doing to reduce your carbon footprint?????

    Me?? I'm an American. I am not greedy or selfish. I do no own a SUV, do not live in a McMansion, I do not fly to extravagant locations and haven't eaten beef in years. I am not a vegan either, I do eat chicken. I am living the American Dream though.

    I am a software developer which has topped the best job in the world... https://tech.slashdot.org/story/19/01/08/2219218/software-developer-tops-list-of-us-news-world-reports-annual-best-jobs-rankings

    I commuted to work by bicycle 221 days in 2018, I rode a total of 7,007 miles (11,275Km) in 2018. https://www.strava.com/athletes/20998255

    Here is my ride home from work last night... 15.5 miles... https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3284066043

    Here is my ride to work this morning... https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/3285321139

    I rode more miles on a bicycle in 2018 than I actually drove or rode in a powered vehicle. My last physical September 2018 I was measured at 9% body fat and I am 53 years old.

    For many Dip$#!+$ like you, just because you dribble bull$#!+ out of your mouth, doesn't make it true.

  29. That's a lot of natural gas! by Thelasko · · Score: 2

    Natural gas produces 50-60% less CO2 than a coal plant for the same amount of energy. That means a lot of new capacity has been added to the grid.

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    1. Re:That's a lot of natural gas! by WindBourne · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Utilities are trying to get ready for EVs, as well as deal with the CO2. Problem is, they might pull out a 120 MW coal plant and put in a 500 MW nat gas. Considering that nat gas emits less than 1/2 of the CO2 of coal (per BTU) means that you can double, even come close to 3x increase and still emit less. But this is 4x up. Way too much.

      We need to replace those old coal plants with nuclear power.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    2. Re:That's a lot of natural gas! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Natural gas produces 50-60% less CO2 than a coal plant for the same amount of energy. That means a lot of new capacity has been added to the grid.

      The 50-60% only relates to combustion. You also need to factor in direct methane emissions from drilling, pipelines, etc. (a.k.a., fugitive emissions). Methane is a much stronger green house gas. Natural gas is probably slightly better, but not nearly as good as trumpeted:
      -https://www.nature.com/news/methane-leaks-erode-green-credentials-of-natural-gas-1.12123
      -https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-energy/coal-and-other-fossil-fuels/environmental-impacts-of-natural-gas

      So yes, theoretically natural gas could be a lot better. However, to add insult to injury, regulations on minimizing direct methane emissions are part of what Trump has been working so hard to roll back.

    3. Re:That's a lot of natural gas! by Magius_AR · · Score: 1

      . Problem is, they might pull out a 120 MW coal plant and put in a 500 MW nat gas. Considering that nat gas emits less than 1/2 of the CO2 of coal (per BTU) means that you can double, even come close to 3x increase and still emit less. But this is 4x up. Way too much.

      That's not the way plants work. It's not like they're burning 0 MW or "max capacity" MW. You could put in a 500 MW plant and have it burn 120 MW of energy. If they put in a plant that size and it was run anywere near capacity on its usage, it was because it was needed (maybe because it took the place of 3 coal plants), not because it was "overkill".

    4. Re:That's a lot of natural gas! by sfcat · · Score: 1

      Natural gas produces 50-60% less CO2 than a coal plant for the same amount of energy. That means a lot of new capacity has been added to the grid.

      The 50-60% only relates to combustion. You also need to factor in direct methane emissions from drilling, pipelines, etc. (a.k.a., fugitive emissions). Methane is a much stronger green house gas. Natural gas is probably slightly better, but not nearly as good as trumpeted: -https://www.nature.com/news/methane-leaks-erode-green-credentials-of-natural-gas-1.12123 -https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-energy/coal-and-other-fossil-fuels/environmental-impacts-of-natural-gas

      So yes, theoretically natural gas could be a lot better. However, to add insult to injury, regulations on minimizing direct methane emissions are part of what Trump has been working so hard to roll back.

      There is also the fact that the Sierra Club was getting funding from natural gas. Don't get in the way of the gravy train...

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
    5. Re:That's a lot of natural gas! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That 500MW gas plant is likely comprised of an array of smaller turbines that only run as demand allows, whereas that coal plant is likely a single turbine with such a long startup time that it's always running.

      The major gas generation station here has 1,280MW capacity at full-throttle, but it's made of up eight individual steam turbines. It's also the least-efficient gas generator on the grid as it burns gas in boilers, but it is able to startup and shutdown turbines multiple times a day.

      Down the road from it is the most efficient gas generator on the grid which is a combined-cycle plant with two gas turbines and two steam turbines with a maximum capacity of almost 500MW.

      Both plants vary their output during the day in line with the demand profile of the grid and weather fluctuations (large deployed wind and rooftop solar capacity here)

      But yes, those big baseload smokers are best replaced with nuclear. I wish politicians here had the fortitude to push it.

    6. Re:That's a lot of natural gas! by skullandbones99 · · Score: 1

      ..and add energy storage (batteries) to the nuclear power plants so that the batteries can kill off natural gas peaker plants. This will solve the slow rate of change of power output from nuclear power plants.

  30. Re:Let's translate from supply side to demand side by DarkOx · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Well right - and the political left in this country needs to internalize that just as most of the political right does but even more so because it driving absolutely the wrong policy choices on the left.

    We can make some efficiency improvements certainly but there is exactly one[1] ultimate driver of environmental degradation and that is human population size per area. We have a birth rate near the replacement rate right now. There is little evidence we would need to get into people's reproductive choices. We can stop population growth by simply putting and end to immigration.

    Anyone who cares about having a beautiful green America for their Children and grandchildren needs to recognize this.

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
  31. Get out of the way of Nuclear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Nuclear can supply all of our energy needs for the foreseeable future. Climate bed-wetters always frame our current situation as solar/wind or nothing.

    We've run very old Nuclear plants well past their design lifespans safely. We would be on 3rd or 4th gen reactors by now - if we could just get some Nuclear deniers out of the way.

    1. Re:Get out of the way of Nuclear by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ^^this

    2. Re:Get out of the way of Nuclear by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Nuclear can supply all of our energy needs for the foreseeable future. Climate bed-wetters always frame our current situation as solar/wind or nothing.

      Nuclear power satisfies roughly 3% of global demand for power. Even if you doubled what we have now it would be 6%. A large scale investment in solar and wind would come online sooner and deliver better energy return on energy invested.

      We've run very old Nuclear plants well past their design lifespans safely.

      No, we've been extremely lucky.

      We would be on 3rd or 4th gen reactors by now - if we could just get some Nuclear deniers out of the way.

      If only nuclear idealists could be realists.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  32. There's a reason for that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "There is a large and growing segment of society that believes the US is the source of all evil in the world" Well, ya think there may be a reason for it, cherub???

    If nothing else comes from trump's idiotic reign it will show that the constitution needs to be idiot proofed because they've just handed it over to a group of idiots.

    It was supposed that the other two branches would stop the idiot in the executive from fucking things up, but republicans are idiots and proved that you cannot rely on it unless you make it necessary for politicians to back the USA rather than their party (very stalinist, really: party before country and people) and the courts cannot do anything if they've been partisan picked by the legislative branch idiots who, lets remember, put party before country.

    There will be a lot less "gentlemen's agreement" in the constutution because the current pile of rightwing fuckwits have shown that there aren't any gentlemen on the rightwing.

    1. Re: There's a reason for that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Erstwhile, Obama weaponized the NSA and CIA against the entire American population in the largest abuse of spying power the world has ever seen.

      But keep telling us how protecting America and it's citizens is really bad, but your evil shit is really good.

      We don't care what you think, because your agenda is traitorous. You will be hung.

    2. Re:There's a reason for that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There will be a lot less "gentlemen's agreement" in the constutution because the current pile of rightwing fuckwits have shown that there aren't any gentlemen on the rightwing."

      You're a flipping libtard idiot based on that comment. It's the fuckwit politicians, mostly leftwing, though plenty of rightwing as well, that can't do what is right for the country.

    3. Re: There's a reason for that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obama and his "phone and pen" were the largest executive branch power grab in history. Forget the NDAA? No wonder Dems and others are so afraid of a guy who somehow slipped past the pre-election process of selection that eliminates those not hewing to a party line and supporting the deep state. This crazy guy might actually DO something not pre approved by the MIC! Treason! Nazi! After all, trying to make peace with Korea or get out of Syria is clearly horrible for the average citizen's interests, right? Where to I get to vote for something other than the RD war party anyway?

    4. Re:There's a reason for that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, the rioting in the streets and destruction of property, and wearing of genitalia hats, by the Republicans after losing the House was astonishing. "Not my representatives!"

      Oh, wait, that was the Democrats after losing the Presidency...

    5. Re:There's a reason for that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If nothing else comes from trump's idiotic reign it will show that the constitution needs to be idiot proofed because they've just handed it over to a group of idiots.

      So anyone that dares to disagree with you is an idiot?

      It was supposed that the other two branches would stop the idiot in the executive from fucking things up, but republicans are idiots and proved that you cannot rely on it unless you make it necessary for politicians to back the USA rather than their party...

      Sounds very nationalistic of you... Are you sure you're not a nazi?

      and the courts cannot do anything if they've been partisan picked by the legislative branch idiots who, lets remember, put party before country.

      So when Obama appointed justices that was OK. But if the opposition gets to do the same then they're traitors and should be hung?

      There will be a lot less "gentlemen's agreement" in the constutution because the current pile of rightwing fuckwits have shown that there aren't any gentlemen on the rightwing.

      So gentlemen hurl insults and go on tirades to vent their impotent self righteous political anger and generally act like children? Oh, indeed, it must be totally time to take the gloves off and start getting serious if things don't start going your way is that right?

    6. Re:There's a reason for that. by jbengt · · Score: 1

      So when Obama appointed justices that was OK.

      Apparently not, since the Republican-controlled Senate did all they could to not even consider many of Obama's judicial appointments.

    7. Re: There's a reason for that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because they were all raging far-left activists who would rather wipe their ass with the document they had sworn to uphold than defend it.

      If they had nominated centrists, like which represent the vast majority of the country, it wouldn't have been an issue.

    8. Re: There's a reason for that. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      There is no deep state. By bringing it up you nullify any vaid points that may have existed. Get out of conspiracy land and get with the real world.

    9. Re: There's a reason for that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is demonstrably a massive unelected army of government employees who have an incredible amount of power to fuck with elections, media, business and private citizens.

      There were over 400 anti-Trump leaks in 2016 and 2017 from "unnamed government sources".

      You are totally fucking retarded.

    10. Re:There's a reason for that. by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      I keep seeing this argument: "we can't be civil, because the rightwing is a bunch of fuckwit turds and we should murder them in their sleep because of it".
      And I think to myself: for years I've kept quiet while people in my state have ranted and raved about stupid idiotic nonsense, because it wasn't worth fighting for. And the first time they get pushback, they go absolutely batshit crazy.

      You want Stalin?The left is actively eating itself trying to prove who's more "woke", and it's like watching early soviet purges.

    11. Re: There's a reason for that. by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      There's always been a deep state, we just didn't call it that. They are the lifetime aparatchik, the government gatekeepers. We actually need them by necessity, as the government tends to change focus every few years and you need someone with institutional experience.

    12. Re:There's a reason for that. by strikethree · · Score: 1

      There will be a lot less "gentlemen's agreement" in the constutution (sic) because the current pile of rightwing fuckwits have shown that there aren't any gentlemen on the rightwing.

      Yep. There are no gentlemen in the right wing. I will immediately start voting left wing. I am sure there are lots of real gentlemen there. It doesn't matter if they go against my core values, it only matters that they are gentlemen.. and the left wing has them in spades!

      Go go left wing politics! You are soooo much better and less insane than the right wing.

      Thank you anonymous coward. I would not know what to do with myself if it weren't for people like you pointing out the obvious to stupid people like myself. I just can't believe I didn't know that the solution to all of the worlds problem was so simple. Just vote left wing and all this stupid shit goes away and life is all lollipops and kittens.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    13. Re: There's a reason for that. by Kyr+Arvin · · Score: 1

      Because they were all raging far-left activists who would rather wipe their ass with the document they had sworn to uphold than defend it.

      No one really debated Merrick Garland on his qualifications to the court. He wasn't a "far-left activist." No, he was blocked for no other reason than that Mitch McConnell vowed that Obama would not appoint a Supreme Court justice. He did it because he could get away with it, and there were no penalties for such a power grab. He was right.

    14. Re:There's a reason for that. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, the rioting in the streets and destruction of property, and wearing of genitalia hats, by the Republicans after losing the House was astonishing. "Not my representatives!"

      Oh, wait, that was the Democrats after losing the Presidency...

      Actually, those where Republican Nazis. And Trump loved them.

  33. teh best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    not a chemist here but "fossile" implies a carbon atom somewhere.
    "fossile fuel" implies that the carbon is intended to be "oxydized".
    what luck that our air then is 1/6 oxygen (else we wouldn't) have a problem.
    so coal is "pure" carbon and waste is pure carbon dioxide, a so-called greenhouse gas (not because its gaseous food for plants in a greenhouse).
    so the "best" fossile fuel should be one with the least carbon atoms but the most hydrogen atoms, because adding/burning hydrogen yields water which is also a greenhouse "gas" but can rain from the sky.
    thus it seems the "cleanest" fossile fuel would be ... methan, or natural gas?

  34. ...and now, the relevant part of TFA by T.E.D. · · Score: 5, Informative

    The post (suspiciously) left out the most important explanatory part of TFA:

    "The transportation sector held its title as the largest source of US emissions for the third year running, as robust growth in demand for diesel and jet fuel offset a modest decline in gasoline consumption," Rhodium wrote. Industrial emissions from various types of manufacturing as well as emissions from buildings both saw significant increases in their carbon emissions in 2018.

    ...

    In 2018, gasoline demand decreased by just 0.1 percent. But growth in the US trucking industry increased diesel demand by 3.1 percent, and demand for air travel increased jet fuel demand by 3 percent.

    1. Re:...and now, the relevant part of TFA by PPH · · Score: 1

      But growth in the US trucking industry increased diesel demand by 3.1 percent, and demand for air travel increased jet fuel demand by 3 percent.

      And that's not natural gas (aside from a tiny part of local trucking biz).

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:...and now, the relevant part of TFA by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Would be great if someone could figure out how to make long distance trains more economically effective, especially for freight.

      For passengers any flight that is about 2 hours or less is probably faster by train, once you factor in getting to the airport, going through security, boarding, and then getting to your destination from the other airport. But you need a network of very high speed trains.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:...and now, the relevant part of TFA by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      The US has the largest rail network in the world BY FAR (i.e. you'd need to add the rail networks of the next 17 countries together to get just half of what the US has), the vast majority of which is devoted to freight transportation. It's already incredibly economical, but people expect fast delivery (which generally isn't feasible via rail) and you still need a way to get from railway stops out to homes, so there's a need for a lot of trucks and planes.

  35. It will probably conntinue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's the economy, stupid. In spite of all the bullshit in the press, replacing Obama with a president who gives a shit about the economy reversed the recession and that increased economic activity caused an increase in CO2 emissions. Obama's greatest contribution to the climate was his administration's (illegal) stonewalling of all coal permits, but the rest of his anti-business policies also had a significant affect on reducing manufacturing and commerce, which reduces emissions in the US.

    1. Re:It will probably conntinue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here is one listing that shows most of the unemployment and GDP. here is the rest Obama inherited -2.5 growth rate from the GOP for the first year and across the entire 8 years, had a 1.3% growth rate.
      However, if we get rid of the first year (belonging to the GOP) and add in 2017 (which is really O's), then America had a growth rate of 1.9%. More importantly, O finished at 2.47, while Trump's first real year, was 3.0. Not much of a difference.

      Then we have unemployment rate:
      GOP gave him a 9.9 % unemployment Rate, while Mediocre Obama gave the GOP a 4.1%. And gee, trump brought it down to 3.9%.

      I will take Obama's economy any day over Trump's, though I will say that I back Trump's trade war.

  36. Re:Let's translate from supply side to demand side by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

    The right is also at fault -- we should be paying for family planning (euphemism for abortion/birth control) programs abroad as well.

  37. Irony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Most prominent Leftists live in real mansions, do fly everywhere in private jets, drive SUVs (some armor plated), and probably do eat beef every day (but will never admit it).

  38. slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it just me, or do the posts on environmental issues start really conservative in the morning (e.g., when people should be working), and get much less so in the evening.

  39. Re:Let's translate from supply side to demand side by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    Well, technically we are. Post-natal, by mowing them down in case they have something we want and they don't give it to our conditions.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  40. Re:Let's translate from supply side to demand side by butchersong · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Doesn't every organism consume endlessly until it is itself consumed by something else consuming endlessly?

  41. We can not ADD fossil fuels by WindBourne · · Score: 3, Informative

    It is one thing to replace an old efficient coal plant with either new coal or a new nat gas, but it does no good when the size of these increase to the point where you are adding more CO2.
    All nations have to stop this. Here in America, we need to push Nuclear SMRs into production SOON. NuScale is a perfect example. It will not be in production until 2025/6 timeframe. With some money (for both the company and NRC), it can be put into production by 2023. That would enable us to replace a number of these coal plants with cheaper/safer nuclear SMRS. Add in more solar/wind and geo-thermal, and we can shut this down.

    The one good thing missing out of this report is that over the next couple of years, America will continue downwards due to EVs replacing old cars, along with the fact that our electricity is fairly clean.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:We can not ADD fossil fuels by iggymanz · · Score: 1, Insightful

      lolz, we're not going to go nuclear, get it out of your head. spouting idealistic nonsense that won't cut it in the real world is waste of time.

      Replacing coal with natgas does reduce emissions.

      Agressive pursuit of totally non-polluting alternatives will take decades to implement, that's reality.

    2. Re:We can not ADD fossil fuels by sfcat · · Score: 1

      lolz, we're not going to go nuclear, get it out of your head. spouting idealistic nonsense that won't cut it in the real world is waste of time.

      Replacing coal with natgas does reduce emissions.

      Agressive pursuit of totally non-polluting alternatives will take decades to implement, that's reality.

      Replacing anything with solar or wind increases natural gas and thus CO2. That's the point of this article. And the CO2 trends we are seeing around the world over the last several years show this same result over and over again. Madness is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result. That's exactly what you are doing right now. People tend to do the right thing after trying everything else.

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
    3. Re:We can not ADD fossil fuels by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Here in America, we need to push Nuclear SMRs into production SOON. NuScale is a perfect example.

      Small Modular Reactors are about the dumbest idea I have ever seen. Once those things are at the end of their service life they will be extremely radioactively hot and there will be no way to dispose of it.

      You're barking up the wrong tree windbourne, for nuclear to be successful it will have to be in large centralized facilities that incorporate spent fuel storage and reprocessing.

      However to make that step a radical improvement in materials technology is required.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    4. Re:We can not ADD fossil fuels by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is one thing to replace an old efficient coal plant with either new coal or a new nat gas, but it does no good when the size of these increase to the point where you are adding more CO2.

      All nations have to stop this. Here in America, we need to push Nuclear SMRs into production SOON. NuScale is a perfect example. It will not be in production until 2025/6 timeframe. With some money (for both the company and NRC), it can be put into production by 2023. That would enable us to replace a number of these coal plants with cheaper/safer nuclear SMRS. Add in more solar/wind and geo-thermal, and we can shut this down.

      The one good thing missing out of this report is that over the next couple of years, America will continue downwards due to EVs replacing old cars, along with the fact that our electricity is fairly clean.

      Found a way to deal with that waste that doesn't involve burying it and hoping for the best till the sun expands into a red giant and engulfs the earth as a glowing ember in it's atmosphere? No? Not a viable option over wind, solar thermal and geothermal.

    5. Re:We can not ADD fossil fuels by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      I'm not expecting anything different.

      Modern natural gas plant emits 50 to 60 percent less CO2 than new coal plant, that's reality.

      We are not going to nuclear power.

      Wind or solar will take decades to adopt, if that path is pursued aggressively.... and right now it is not.

  42. That's a good thing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to Dr. Guy McPherson, reducing carbon emissions only makes things worse.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naAFYesElAQ

  43. Title is BS by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    Story isn't about methane. It's about diesel (vehicles) and kerosene (jet fuel). Basically people fly more and there are more products that need to be driven to the stores for people to buy. Not to even mention the whole amazon deliveries aspect. Basically rapid growth of economy leads to more flying to vacations by the wealthy city folks and more driving to get consumer products.

    The reason why there's an attempt to spin this as "it's the methane" is because of increasing desperation in the green lobby with methane outcompeting pretty much everything in electricity generation in North America due to fracking phenomena. It's almost free as a by-product of fracking and it has only about half of CO2 emissions compared to coal per energy generated. So all the major wind and solar on grid is starting to run into the wall of "thanks, but unless there are massive subsidies and PR boost, we will just install a CCGT". And chemistry dictates that you'd need over double the installed capacity of methane over decommissioned coal to actually get to increase from this replacement process.

    Which is obviously not occurring.

  44. Tired of the Nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After 6 years of Slashdot being my daily go-to for technical issues of the day, I am departing because I'm tired of the SJW / Progressive / Global-Warming-Is-Going-To-Kill-Us-All nonsense.

    It's too bad, really.

    One parting shot - GET WOKE, GO BROKE - is a real thing.

  45. Re: Natural gas you say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I love this argument. Urrr mah gurd the cows are the cause, go vegan. Hah fucking retards. Human beings output orders of magnitude more emssisons than any other animal. The cow argument is made by almost exclusively by morons who believe anything anyone tells them.

  46. Ah, you live in your butthole. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's where you got your claims, after all. And though it MAY be in Europe, it isn't a country. Just a vast on a comparison with other arses.

    Brexit means brexit, by the way, so if Theresa May gets us out with no deal, then that is still 100% what you demanded: Brexit. Britain exiting the EU. You never said "Brexit means leaving the EU yet retaining access to the european markets under favourable conditions", you just whinged "BREXIT IS BREXIT!!!".

    Welp, you get brexit, and now you're bitching that the conservatives generally and May specifically is trying to fuck it up by leaving without a deal.

    YOU NEVER ASKED FOR ANY DEAL.

    Just Brexit.

  47. Re:Let's translate from supply side to demand side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To reply to you, yes my comment was overly broad. This was somewhat intentional; to some extent one has to look at society as a whole, not just ones' individual actions. My apologies for being offensive, I applaud your individual actions.

    Further, to reply to your question about what I am doing: yes, I do bicycle to work, am vegetarian, and am not a large consumer, etc.

    However, the vast majority of society does not say--aha, climate change. Maybe SUVs are not a great idea.

  48. fat fux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get off yer asses

  49. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  50. Re:And thorium... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They just don't spend as much on their military scum and adventures abroad as the US does

    Did you just seriously refer to our armed forces as scum?

  51. Re:And thorium... by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    No, the French count on NATO to protect them and do their bidding. FOr example, the French, Italians and Germans called up NATO alliance to force America to help them invade Libya. And if you prefer, we can let AQ/ISIS attack you as opposed to telling you 3-6 times a year when a group is about to attack.

    And considering that we have a great deal more nuclear power than france, and worse yet, France is shutting down their reactors and replacing with AE, just like America has done in SOME places,well, ....

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  52. Re: And thorium... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's easy to spend less money on your military than America when you depend entirely on America for your defense, you sniveling beggar.

  53. Bring back nuclear, promote plug-in electrics by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Come on, America, it's time to be the adults, look under our own beds, and assure ourselves that the Nuclear Boogeyman is just our imagination.
    We need nuclear power. Safe nuclear power isn't 'theoretical', it's a reality; there are safer reactor designs on the drawing board right now, but since everyone seems to lose their bladder containment whenever the subject comes up, no money gets allocated into developing them.
    Of course none of this can even begin to happen until 2020; we need to get the current bozo out of office, because his geriatric obsession with dragging us back to the 1940's, trying to resurrect the coal industry, prevents any progress in nuclear power from happening. Hell, I wouldn't put it past the guy to 'executive order' all information to-date on reactor design be destroyed, just to ensure that ass-backwards coal mining is brought back from the dead.
    Once we get past that hurdle and back into a sane energy policy, new reactor designs can be developed and implemented. That'll take at least 10 years though.
    Meanwhile continuing development and deployment of solar and wind power, in conjuction with large-scale energy storage strategies, should tide us over, and as capacity in these technologies increases, old-fashioned outdated filthy fossil-fuel-based power plants can be shuttered. Tear them down and build solar farms, so we can reuse the grid connections to them.
    In order to facilitate faster adoption of plug-in electric vehicles, there should be new government programs to promote them. Rebates, credits for decomissioning ICE vehicles, grants to municipalities to fund change-over from diesel buses to electrics, ad campaigns promoting electrics. Get as many people as possible off ICE-based transportation and into electrics.
    Meanwhile continue funding development of practical fusion technology, to eventually replace fission technology.
    Also, for all we know, if we, as a species, manage to survive another hundred years or so, we might even have antimatter reactor technology (or something more exotic than that, even), and never have to worry about energy ever again.

    The takeaway here is that we have to stop dwelling on the past and move forward, stop being scared little rabbits, use what we've got that's better than what we've been using, and stop sabotaging ourselves.

    1. Re:Bring back nuclear, promote plug-in electrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some valid points, but way off the mark on Trump being anti-nuclear, and renewables&storage replacing fossil; that is not happening. (not now, and not ever; large-scale energy storage is way too expensive, and wind/solar has a poor record of decarbonizing.)

    2. Re:Bring back nuclear, promote plug-in electrics by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      I remember when trolling was a art. You guys on the other hand are incredible hacks.

    3. Re:Bring back nuclear, promote plug-in electrics by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Come on, America, it's time to be the adults, look under our own beds, and assure ourselves that the Nuclear Boogeyman is just our imagination.

      Whilst the radionuclides and other byproducts of the nuclear industry, like depleted uranium, radio active CFCs, megalitres of radioactive sulfuric acid from mining remain in the environment.

      Effective advocates of nuclear power would pose solutions to these issues instead of trying to convince people it's all in their head. This willful ignorance is far more damaging to the unclear industry than any NIMBY could be.

      We need nuclear power. Safe nuclear power isn't 'theoretical', it's a reality; there are safer reactor designs on the drawing board right now, but since everyone seems to lose their bladder containment whenever the subject comes up, no money gets allocated into developing them.

      Sure, it's just so expensive that no sane investor wants to go near it because whilst it is still prone to human error they are unlikely to see a return on their investment in their lifetime.

      Evidence of this is that none of the nuclear plant designs in existence incorporate any of the 30 known improvements to nuclear reactor plant design suggested by industry at the behest of the NRC. Any serious advocate of nuclear power would be lobbying the NRC to make these changes to nuclear reactor design mandatory.

      You would also be lobbying to have laws surrounding the illegality of spent fuel facilities in granite removed. However I bet you don't even know that is a law that exists to prevent the proper development of the nuclear industry, it's just easier to blame NIMBYs.

      Of course none of this can even begin to happen until 2020; we need to get the current bozo out of office,

      I'm not gonna touch that one.

      Once we get past that hurdle and back into a sane energy policy, new reactor designs can be developed and implemented. That'll take at least 10 years though.

      An entire section (600) in the 2005 US energy policy act is devoted to funding nuclear energy. It is encouraged in every way but used as a means for oil and coal to raid taxpayers wallets because they are the only ones who can *afford* to build them. Solar, wind and everything else are left out where the funding burden is put onto the business sector, with everything else.

      Meanwhile continuing development and deployment of solar and wind power, in conjuction with large-scale energy storage strategies, should tide us over, and as capacity in these technologies increases, old-fashioned outdated filthy fossil-fuel-based power plants can be shuttered. Tear them down and build solar farms, so we can reuse the grid connections to them.

      I've heard rumbling of converting aging nuclear power plants to natural gas so as to utilise the turbine infrastructure. This is good because we need a way to make it profitable to maintain the sites where the spent fuel is stored until a cetralized repository and infrastructure can be built.

      In order to facilitate faster adoption of plug-in electric vehicles, there should be new government programs to promote them. Rebates, credits for decomissioning ICE vehicles, grants to municipalities to fund change-over from diesel buses to electrics, ad campaigns promoting electrics. Get as many people as possible off ICE-based transportation and into electrics.

      Part of the dream of Burner reactors is that they can produce enough hydrogen to replace oil as a fuel that maintains the existing vehicle fleet whilst reducing their effective carbon footprint to zero.

      Meanwhile continue funding development of practical fusion technology, to eventually replace fission technology.

      I've got no problem with the continued develo

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    4. Re:Bring back nuclear, promote plug-in electrics by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Most fear of nuclear power IS in people's heads. Get over it.

      The Federal Government is who invests in nuclear reactors, not private industry. However they don't seem to allow anyone license to develop anything new otherwise we'd have Thorium reactors. So don't tell me 'federal policy' is FOR nuclear power.

      ..30 known improvements.. see above.

      You would also be lobbying to have laws surrounding the illegality.. You just proved my point about federal policy by contradicting yourself.

      ..convert to natural gas.. that's about as ass-backwards retarded as anyone can get. NO MORE FOSSIL FUEL. Get off it.

      Hydrogen dead end.

      I've got no problem with the continued development of fission burner reactors. Sure doesn't sound like it to me.

      However this mindless, dumb, hurried, weaponized poorly designed deployment.. Who, by the way, said ANYTHING about ignoring waste disposal? Stop making excuses to keep using fossil fuels.

      Ultimately that is what many nuclear proponents do as a consequence of their willful ignorance. They do not and will not take responsibility.. There you go again beating that same drum. Who said ANYTHING about ignoring the waste products? Me? NO. Anyone else? NO.

      You really do sound like someone who would rather just keep fucking up the planet with fossil fuels instead of TRYING to get away from burning ANYTHING for energy.

      I'm not going to touch that one. Are you a Trump voter? Are you another one who wants to drag us back to the 1940's thinking it'll somehow magically 'Make America Great Again'? If you are guess again, IT WILL NOT.

      Guess what, buddy? I'm one of the people who voted to shut down and decomission Rancho Seco in the 80's. And now I'm walking that decision back as a bad idea. We NEED nuclear power, and we CAN MAKE IT SAFE AND CLEAN. I'll keep advocating for that despite the NIMBYs and despite the Nervous Nellies. I'd like it if our species manages to not extinguish themselves one way or another.

    5. Re:Bring back nuclear, promote plug-in electrics by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Most fear of nuclear power IS in people's heads. Get over it.

      No, your irrational idealism is in your head. Anyone who has spent any time examining the properties of radionuclides would know that they are energetic emitters of alpha, beta and gamma radiation. Just because you are ignorant of the mechanism doesn't mean it doesn't exist, it means you don;t understand why some of that fear is a rational response to a threatening situation.

      Ignorance, it would seem, really is bliss. Meanwhile people serious people continue to educate themselves on this subject and are able to explain their objections in a well thought out way. No wonder nuclear is dying, with friends like you, who needs enemies - do continue you're doing a better job at killing nuclear than the anti-nuke crowd.

      The Federal Government is who invests in nuclear reactors, not private industry. However they don't seem to allow anyone license to develop anything new otherwise we'd have Thorium reactors. So don't tell me 'federal policy' is FOR nuclear power.

      I don't need to, you can check the link I sent you for yourself. Though the funding mechanisms for nuclear are large and varied so it might involve a lot of reading and comprehension.

      ..30 known improvements.. see above.

      The NRC assembled a panel from Westinghouse, GE, Bechtel and others created these recommendation

      You would also be lobbying to have laws surrounding the illegality.. You just proved my point about federal policy by contradicting yourself.

      You have no idea what you are talking about. It is illegal to create spent fuel repositories in granite as a quirk of state politics not wanting them in their state.

      I've got no problem with the continued development of fission burner reactors. Sure doesn't sound like it to me.

      because you only hear what you want to hear.

      However this mindless, dumb, hurried, weaponized poorly designed deployment.. Who, by the way, said ANYTHING about ignoring waste disposal? Stop making excuses to keep using fossil fuels.

      You're not offering any solutions.

      Ultimately that is what many nuclear proponents do as a consequence of their willful ignorance. They do not and will not take responsibility.. There you go again beating that same drum. Who said ANYTHING about ignoring the waste products? Me? NO. Anyone else? NO.

      There you go, still not taking responsibility for your advocacy.

      The rest of your post is full of over-emotional irrationality, pointless really. You seem so emotionally triggered you are unable to create a cohesive sentence. Please try to calm down so we can have an adult conversation.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    6. Re:Bring back nuclear, promote plug-in electrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Found a way to deal with that waste that doesn't involve burying it and hoping for the best till the sun expands into a red giant and engulfs the earth as a glowing ember in it's atmosphere? No? Not a viable option over wind, solar thermal and geothermal.

    7. Re:Bring back nuclear, promote plug-in electrics by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      because you only hear what you want to hear. Right back at you, buddy.

      You're not offering any solutions. WTF, I'm supposed to come up with a 100 year energy plan for Humanity in a comment on a shitty 3rd-tier new commenting site? Get real.

      I can't say for sure if you're just a very wordy troll or if you're just really dumb, but the conversation ends here, if for no other reason than your 'style' of commenting makes my eyes bleed.

      You're not changing my mind or convincing anyone else, all you're doing is wasting time and creating eye-strain. Bu-bye.

    8. Re:Bring back nuclear, promote plug-in electrics by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      because you only hear what you want to hear. Right back at you, buddy.

      You are attempting to tell people how to think and that they are somehow irrational for having valid concerns. The information provided, including the link to the Energy policy was to illustrate just how poorly thought out your projections are.

      You're not offering any solutions. WTF, I'm supposed to come up with a 100 year energy plan for Humanity in a comment on a shitty 3rd-tier new commenting site? Get real.

      I've provided such a way forward for Nuclear power *several times* in these discussions. A deep consideration of the motivations behind using Nuclear Power is required to be able to understand how best to use the technology and learn the lessons of failure from this version of the industry.

      Clearly you are unable to engage at thinking about Nuclear Power at this level which suggests you are simply another clone of a nuclear industry PR robot with nothing new to add to the conversation except insult the people who are sincerely trying to consider solutions to the mess this industry has created for the world.

      I'm going to refrain from insulting you, for now, as it is quite common for people such as your self to be deceived as you want the best for everybody and at least your motivations come from a good place, despite your ignorance.

      I can't say for sure if you're just a very wordy troll or if you're just really dumb, but the conversation ends here, if for no other reason than your 'style' of commenting makes my eyes bleed.

      As you have no answer to any of the points I've raised it is clear that thinking about this subject is difficult for you in anything other than the most shallow methods of trying to provoke an emotional reaction from those who are bored with the same repetitive style of nuclear industry rhetoric.

      This is the consequences from subscribing to social proof so you can feel morally superior, someone (and I'm not the only one) will come along and you end up feeling humiliated because you are unable to provide an intelligent response.

      You're not changing my mind or convincing anyone else, all you're doing is wasting time and creating eye-strain.

      I have no interest in changing your mind and your projections are futile. All you have done is described yourself, your posting style and revealed that you have no knowledge that forms the basis of an argument. The projections you meant to inflict on people with genuine concerns like it's time to be the adults, look under our own beds, and assure ourselves that the Nuclear Boogeyman is just our imagination have now backfired on you showing that there is no substance to anything you say. When challenged to engage in conversation like an adult on a serious subject you respond like a teenager who thinks they can maintain their decorum simply by saying something as juvenile as:

      Bu-bye.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    9. Re:Bring back nuclear, promote plug-in electrics by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Do you feel all empowered and superior now? Good for you. Nobody else cares.

    10. Re:Bring back nuclear, promote plug-in electrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Come on, America, it's time to be the adults, look under our own beds, and assure ourselves that the Nuclear Boogeyman is just our imagination.

      Related: Since the Fukushima earthquake/tsunami in 2011, Japan's been forced to take its 50+ nuclear power plants offline. The need for those didn't just go away, so instead, they've been purchasing *coal* from China. I'm no tree hugger, but that's just insanity. They need to bring their nuclear plants online back *soon* (a few have since, but not nearly enough)

    11. Re:Bring back nuclear, promote plug-in electrics by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      Do you feel all empowered and superior now?

      No. You're projecting the deflated grandiosity you feel over not getting moral superiority from the social proof you used because you got called out on a nuclear fantasy that only works in your imagination.

      Solving nuclear industry issues means dealing with the nuclear boogeyman instead of pretending there isn't a problem. Four smoldering nuclear reactors on the edge of the Pacific Ocean is what the nuclear boogey man looks like, that's the reality we have to deal with.

      Good for you.

      I suggest it's time for you to feel comfortable educating yourself, like an adult would, about the serious consequences externalized from the nuclear industry onto the international community. This is a serious subject Rick, with the consequences expressed in Human DNA.

      Nobody else cares.

      Obviously you do otherwise you would not be prone to behave this way when discussing this subject. One day you may be able to overcome the nuclear industry deceptions you have been exposed to that cause you to project nuclear idealism the way you have in this thread.

      I see you have nothing of value to offer this conversation so I hope this helps you.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    12. Re:Bring back nuclear, promote plug-in electrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Legit question:
      Why does 1 person have so much decision making power?
      Why does 1 person also have the ability to shut down entire sectors of government?

      Why do people not seem to care about the flaw in the system, and instead only attack that 1 person?

  54. Re:Let's translate from supply side to demand side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Take a chill pill, Nathan. I'd figure at 53 years old, you'd have realized not to take things so personally all the time. However, your virtue signalling is impressive.

  55. Too many people = too many automobiles... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But electricity wasn't the main culprit. Transportation was.

    The solution is Agenda 21: depopulation.

    We need more zoning and building permit requirements. We need more higher education for child bearing aged young women. We need more engrossing and addictive video games for young men. We need to promote LGBTYism bigly. We need to keep Planned Parenthood handing out contraceptives and abortions. We need more fentanyl laced drugs. We need to raise the minimum wages so high that nobody but university educated (and student debt burdened) women can get a job. We need to severely punish sexual misconduct in the workplace. We need to make it financially lucrative for women to divorce their husbands. We need more cancer causing Round Up Ready transgenic crops. We need more hellish wildfires.

    1. Re:Too many people = too many automobiles... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We also need more wars. The US declaring withdrawal from Syria and reducing boots on the ground in Afghanistan needs to be walked right back. Come on Mueller, WTF is taking so long?!?

      Anything and everything possible to reduce the human population down to more manageable levels. Save the Earth MFer's!

    2. Re:Too many people = too many automobiles... by commoncause · · Score: 2

      Funny in a dark way.

  56. Oblig. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    HA-HA!

  57. No Nukes for "reasons" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Doesn't matter how much we need it nor how safe it is, nukes are done in the United States. The lunatic eco-Nazis will hold violent protests anywhere anyone even suggests putting a *GASP* "nuclear" anything. "THEIR NOT SAFE!!!!!1!!11 THEY CAN"T BE MADE SAFE!@@1!!!12!@@"

  58. Re: Natural gas you say? by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

    I love this argument. Urrr mah gurd the cows are the cause, go vegan. Hah fucking retards. Human beings output orders of magnitude more emssisons than any other animal. The cow argument is made by almost exclusively by morons who believe anything anyone tells them.

    Yes, humans (and human activity) do emit more greenhouse gasses than any other animal. But not orders-of-magnitude more. Agriculture, and in particular, livestock, is still a significant contribution. The US Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) has reported that agricultural contribution to be about 18% of all greenhouse-gas emissions, with cattle-breeding as a major component.

    Worse, methane is a more potent greenhouse gas than CO2, by a factor of about 23. On the flipside, it does break down more quickly in the atmosphere than CO2.

    --
    If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
  59. Re: Natural gas you say? by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

    The US Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO)

    Whoops, typo. Make that the UN Food and Agriculture Organization.

    --
    If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
  60. Last Two Years: Record-Breaking Global Cooling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is no empirical data demonstrating a correlation, let alone a causality between Atmospheric CO2 Levels and Global Warming.
    Smart people on here with strong agendas and even stronger second hand opinions...
    Be brave, and try looking at the conflicting information and coming to your own conclusion, instead of mindlessly dismissing what you disagree with.
    https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/climate-change-global-warming-earth-cooling-media-bias/

  61. Gas light by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps where the oil companies are burning our N.G. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/at-night-giant-fields-of-burning-natural-gas-make-north-dakota-visibile-from-space-2533561/

  62. And That's What Is Wrong Here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Thank you Mr. Trump."

    The biggest problem here is supporting Donald Trump, not natural gas, not even rising emissions. Why?

    Trump has repeatedly and vociferously supported coal. Natural gas is an easy and logical win versus using coal. It's literally the easiest thing you can do: Convert coal fired electrical plants to natural gas. Natural gas isn't an endpoint in an green economy but it certainly helps.

    Yet Trump isn't for natural gas, or solar, or wind, or geothermal, or nuclear, or conservation. He's for "big, beautiful, clean coal". That's rather like being for "honest cheating" in sports. Trump is like an imaginary blanket to keep you warm at night: If only you really believed, you'd be warm! Trump blames you and your lack of faith for being cold.

    But isn't this all theoretical? I mean Trump hasn't made empty promises based upon wishful thinking, has he? Oh yes he has:

    https://www.technologyreview.com/s/608191/clean-coals-flagship-project-has-failed/

    1. Re:And That's What Is Wrong Here by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Shesh.. That clean coal is dying canard again..

      Look, let us stipulate, up front, that Trump's fascination with coal is mostly political. Not that he's not doing something, he is, it's just that if you are paying attention to the reality of things, coal is just too expensive to use. Trump's administration is backing off the EPA's mandates in order to keep from killing coal faster than it's already dying, but make no mistake, coal is a fuel that simply won't last much longer for electric power generation. Trump is making it possible to keep existing coal plants on line longer, but eventually they will wear out and be replaced with other sources.

      Regardless of the politics of this, if you look at fuel prices and future projections for various sources, natural gas is literally wiping the floor with EVERYTHING else out there. Nuclear, Wind, Solar AND coal are more expensive over the total expected lifecycle of a generation plan than natural gas. THAT is why coal is dying and there is little anybody can do to stop this.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:And That's What Is Wrong Here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. You do not get to walk away from this and neither does Big Giant Orange Head. BGOH made support of coal a centerpiece of his campaign; he went to coal country specifically to talk up coal. He outright stated that coal was the future, that coal was Yuge, that the so-called "war on coal" was over.

      BGOH supporters are limp and pathetic. They excuse deplorable campaign promises by retconning them as "jokes". Or as "they were never really important." Or "we listen to the tone of the President and not his words."

      It's not a "canard" that coal is dying, and the reasons you state, while accurate, are irrelevant. BGOH promised his coal country supporters a return to King Coal. You admit that isn't going to happen, and expect us to ignore the fact that coal country citizens are now going to get neither:

      1). A resurgent coal industry, with secure jobs;
      2). Alternative industry, with job prospects;
      3). Retraining, in literally anything else.

      People who support BGOH are hypocrites who even turn on their own. The Cult of Trump is a Ponzi scheme; people who participate in it had better start owning up to what is really going on. They have been used by a slick shyster from New Yowk City, who sold them a monorail.

  63. An easy solution to all this by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    Eliminate all depreciation, deductions, exclusions, and grandfathering of all fossil fuels, from extraction to use, and add all cleanup as a cost.

    It's called a market - you have to capture both Goods and Bads to actually have a working Capitalist economy. Letting people pollute for free has costs, specifically in dead kids.

    There. Fixed.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  64. rechargeable e-train by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nothing new actually:

    * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battery_electric_multiple_unit

  65. Re:Let's translate from supply side to demand side by Darinbob · · Score: 1

    Does ending immigration stop population growth? All those people will stop reproducing if they're not on US soil?

    The vast majority of people in the US is an immigrant or a recent descendant of immigrants. So this sounds a lot like shutting the doors behind you.

  66. OH TEH NOES! by BECoole · · Score: 1

    PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY WORKING & TRAVELING AND LIVING!!!!!

  67. FOAD, hypocrite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Claims we should all be nice and stop blaming each other, then proceeds to blame the other. Typical conservatard hypocrisy and the other half of America is getting tired of it. The adults are about to get to work "just fixing shit".

  68. Transportation emission increase by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More of the American population driving Volkswagen Diesels?

  69. The USA is back by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    Using energy, exports, been productive again.
    Jobs, work and exports.
    Why would anyone want to reduce US jobs, exports, productivity?
    Why should the USA be held back from exporting, making products, selling services to the world?

    Just the start of the USA winning again.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  70. Re:And thorium... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Correction: France talks about replacing nuclear with renewables, but it is not happening. France is already a model low-carbon nation, with twice the share of low-carbon electricity as Germany, at half the cost per kWh. Any efforts to replace nuclear with renewables will require imported gas, and increase emissions and costs.

    The US is closing reactors, but that loss is replaced primarily by gas if at all, and a token amount of renewables for green-washing. A brilliant plan by gas and renewable salesmen, which will lock in reliance on gas with no path to zeroing emissions; electricity prices will trend upward indefinitely along with volatile and increasing gas prices. Reduced demand can be expected, as electricity becomes increasingly unaffordable. Success?

  71. America is so much dirtier than France by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    America is so much dirtier than France it's not even a competition. America basically doesn't have a hope in hell of ever getting their CO2 down to French levels.
    You are a joke.

    You use NATO more so you can have bases all over the world. And it locks in customers for your arms exporters (IE corporate welfare).

  72. More lies from WindBourne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    America will continue downwards

    Your transport CO2 has been increasing for the last half decade WindBourne. You know this. Don't lie.

    Your total CO2 increased this year, as predicted by everyone. Don't lie about this either.

    The average American gets just as much coal electricity as a Chinese person. Don't pretend you are clean at all...
    Not as big a lie as your others, but still WindBourne being deceitful/dishonest.

  73. So much Idiocy in one post from you WindBourne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You were told 6-10 months ago America was going to increase, but you kept denying it and predicting a drop. Seems you are always wrong.
    China economy has already slowed, yet you say CO2 increased quite a bit. So that makes this prediction already null and void.

    China's is 2x America with 4.2x the people. Per person you are still over twice as bad.
    Per person you were worse before, and your increase will make your per person even worse again. You aren't even dropping down towards China, but getting further out in front!

    Just compare the lifestyles of the 3 countries you mention.
    Think about how an American lives his day to day life. Now imagine a Chinese person, and now an Indian. Do you think it's a coincidence that the CO2 is directly related to the level of consumption, level of development, level of waste? American with their big house, 2 cars (big cars), AC etc. A Chinese person with 1 (small cars) or no cars, smaller house, maybe no AC. An Indian with a bicycle no AC and shitting in a field.
    It's obvious. (unless you are paid to look the other way) It's natural those other countries will want to develop and be more like America. Who are you to tell them they can't? As they develop their energy use will increase, it's just common sense.
    A big rich country like America can't afford to go green, but poor developing countries are expected to? (poor developed country, if you want to pretend China is as developed as America.)

    You can't even keep your CO2 steady, but you still complain and worry about them catching up to you? Why don't you drop down towards their level, their lifestyle if you think it's such a big problem? You won't, you feel entitled to pollute twice as much as Chinese people and 10 times an Indian.

  74. Now you are starting to understand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    America is so dirty because they use the most energy. The source being a little cleaner doesn't mean jack if you use 5x as much...
    But you are paid to not understand this, so it won't get in your bubble.
    Which is why per person you are close to the top of the world CO2 polluters.

  75. How do you dispose of a SMR? by MrKaos · · Score: 1

    Ideally, if we restart our nuclear power with SMRs, we will probably use a combination of battery/recharging when going through slow cities/stops.

    So how do you propose to dispose of a SMR at the end of its service life? Have you thought this idea through?

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  76. More Windy FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More made up WindBourne shit.
    America is the home of SUV/pickups. Find any evidence of what you are claiming...
    Americans are among the world leaders in eating beef, 4th per capita.
    You eat twice as much beef as China... with less than 1/4 of the people...

  77. Found the explination !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe you aren't paid to look this stupid.
    People Older Than 65 Share the Most Fake News, Study Finds
    Maybe you are just a gullible old fart.

  78. Re:Let's translate from supply side to demand side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A SUV's can spew out as much CO2/NOX as a Honda or a Toyota too. It just depends on its usage. People that commute 50 miles to and from work are not driving SUV's they are driving Hondas or econo-boxes. The majority of large SUV drivers are not commuting 50 miles one way. Two people at where I work who drive the Tahoe class SUV commute less than 10 miles to work. I will bet dollars to doughnuts that the guy driving the 50 miles one way is contributing more CO2/NOX driving a Honda than the guy that drives the Tahoe less than 10.

    The problem really isn't SUV's, it is the total output of carbon. And you are correct, most people don't say aha... climate change I should get rid of my SUV, like most people don't think Ahh.. Gun crime is horrible where I live, maybe I should give up my gun and any means of protecting myself. Doesn't happen. Most people will decide to change their lifestyle and move.

    Society as a whole starts with the individual. I'm doing my part about global warming... well, except for methane, especially the morning after eating tacos at Taco Bell the night before.

    Start doing your part and other people will take notice.

  79. Re:Let's translate from supply side to demand side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only way that I virtue signal is with my middle finger.

  80. You sound like WindBourne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We polluted first and we are used to it / entitled to do it. You other cleaner countries who are already cleaner, will just have to be even cleaner than us or not develop, because well 'fuck you'.

  81. Quite right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get back to us when the US has cut down to European and Chinese levels.

    Fully agree, the environment only cares that an America puts out more CO2 than a European and a Chinaman added together. Not that you are richer and more developed. Again, half your levels and get back to us...

    Stop pretending to be green.

  82. Yet per person 1/2 as polluting as USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yet per person 1/2 as polluting as USA...

    You taking WindBourne trolling lessons? Ask him for the advanced classes, that's all old fake boring news.

  83. Eat more butter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It takes a great deal of milk to produce a small amount of butter. And much of the waste is in the form of toxic run off that damages ecosystems in rivers and streams.

  84. Re:And thorium... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did you just seriously refer to our armed forces as scum?

    Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot for a moment that the forces we use to topple governments we disagree agree with and murder thousands of citizens in other countries, that's something we're supposed to bow down to and worship. Thank you for reminding me that our citizenry is supposed to turn off their brains, and simply worship symbols like our flag and our eagles, and our tanks.

    Military attacks are the greatest failures of human beings. The mass murder we try to justify as "glorious combat" is the worst that humanity can get. They are our failures as moral people.

  85. Surprise surprise WindBourne is wrong again... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    https://www.industryweek.com/e...
    Make your lies no so easily checked WindBourne, you take all the fun out of it.

    In December, retail sales of sedans, multipurpose vehicles and sport utility vehicles plummeted 19% -- the seventh straight monthly drop.

  86. like how they stopped coal plants... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You predictions are worthless WindBourne.