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Kenya Will Start Teaching Chinese To Elementary School Students From 2020 (qz.com)

Kenya will teach Mandarin in classrooms in a bid to improve job competitiveness and facilitate better trade and connection with China. From a report: The country's curriculum development institute (KICD) has said the design and scope of the mandarin syllabus have been completed and will be rolled out in 2020. Primary school pupils from grade four (aged 10) and onwards will be able to take the course, the head of the agency Julius Jwan told Xinhua news agency. Jwan said the language is being introduced given Mandarin's growing global rise, and the deepening political and economic connections between Kenya and China.

"The place of China in the world economy has also grown to be so strong that Kenya stands to benefit if its citizens can understand Mandarin," Jwan noted. Kenya follows in the footsteps of South Africa which began teaching the language in schools in 2014 and Uganda which is planning mandatory Mandarin lessons for high school students.

161 comments

  1. Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Made in China

    1. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe mandarin - for all the hassle in learning - is a powerful language. And classes are being taught by independent tutoring agencies for American executives. It is a gold mine industry to be in

    2. Re:Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Packaged in USA. Designed, engineered, manufactured and mined in China.

    3. Re:Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Packaged in USA. Designed, engineered, manufactured and mined in China.

      Marketing department in the USA. Packaged, designed, engineered, manufactured, and mined in China.

    4. Re:Designed and Engineered in the USA by r1348 · · Score: 1

      Made in China. Sold in the US.

    5. Re:Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you say so, Chang. "Designed in China" is an oxymoron.

    6. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's a stupid, inefficient writing system and a terrible way to store information. Facilitating business deals doesn't make it a good language and frankly, it sounds gay AF, nasal and shrill.

    7. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not interested in doing business with the Communists.

    8. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Then you're not interested in doing business.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    9. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      It's a stupid, inefficient writing system

      Wrong. If you write the same text in English and Chinese, the Chinese will be significantly more compact.

      Although Chinese is a bit slower to type, it is faster to read. Poor English readers sound out the letters phonetically. But proficient readers recognized the words visually. The difference is that Chinese, by its very nature, is read visually. So proficient readers can process it faster.

      ... and a terrible way to store information.

      This is, of course, nonsense. But why do you think it is true?

    10. Re:Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahahahaha designed and engineered in china hahahahahahahaha have i got news for you buddy

    11. Re:Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chinese don't design. They steal.

    12. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Although Chinese is a bit slower to type, it is faster to read.

      Does that reading speed include looking in those little pocket references I see people using when they read it on the train from time to time? You know, the book that explains what the seldom-used characters mean? Seems very efficient to need a separate reference guide...

    13. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      26 characters with mostly coherent rules is much easier to master than 5000+ symbols each requiring ridiculous cultural context to understand..

    14. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Their economy is walking dead. Built on a house of cards and IP theft and a broken educational system with a for life dictator running the show, they are doomed.

      If you want to learn the language of global business for the next 100+ years you should learn English.

    15. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes it's doomed, as it will slow down to only growing 5-6% per year. hmmm.

    16. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by nwaack · · Score: 1

      No, the AC is right. It's stupid and inefficient. It's the equivalent of writing only in emojis whose intrinsic shape don't actually mean anything.

    17. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by jouassou · · Score: 1

      Don't you have dictionaries in English too? Where you look up the meanings and pronunciations of rarely-used words?

    18. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (1) If you're talking about Spanish or German, sure, I'll give you the "mostly coherent rules" point. But the difference between pronunciation and spelling in English is too large for that; you in practice have to memorize the mapping between spelling and pronunciation, which is one step closer to Chinese. (If English had a good spelling system, there would be no "spelling bee" competitions, for instance. There's a reason we don't have those here in Norway.)
      (2) You don't need to memorize 5000+ unique symbols. Most symbols are actually constructed from very few components that are reused as "blocks" in more complicated characters. So you'll need to pick up some cultural context to see the logic behind it, but many symbols are related in a very logical way. According to Wikipedia, there are 200 "radicals" that are often reused in complex characters. Note also that you don't need 5000+ for everyday life; I've heard that you do fine with a vocab of 2000-3000 characters + a dictionary,
      (3) If you want to look at a really efficient writing system, look into Hangeul (Korean). It's easier to learn than the Latin alphabet (I'm saying that as a European), but fast to read once you get used to it since you read it one syllable at a time. And it's less ambiguous with respect to pronunciation compared to most languages using the Latin alphabet, since which letters correspond to which syllable is more clearly defined.

    19. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Neither you nor I will be speaking in 100+ years.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    20. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the argument is almost irrelevant now that global warming is about to overtake humanity within less than 300-350 years. The decrease in oxygen at depth guarantees a loss of 50% of all human protein consumed within a few hundred, with plastics taking entire populations of most species in shallower waters.

    21. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Chinese writing system does match intrinsic shape to meaning but you as a person who does not understand the wriitng can't see it. A bit of help from Google

      https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b&q=chineasy+book

    22. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 1

      While I think the AC you are responding to is wrong, I am not impressed with your arguments. Proficient readers of both languages can read the common words instantly and without effort.

      What happens when you meet and uncommon word you are unsure about? In both cases, look at the pieces and guess. For English that is how the letters remind one of other words one knows. For Chinese, same idea except pictograms.

      Both languages have their pros and cons. I suspect Chinese readers might be slightly faster under optimum conditions, but they are potentially suffer more for poor eyesight.

    23. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mostly coherent rules? Are you really talking about English?

    24. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Growth of Chinas economy is already negative. You actually believe the Chinese propaganda that that have been growing at 8% a year for the last umpteen years?

      Their self proclaimed gdp growth chart looks like a fifth grader put a ruler on graph paper and drew a line. It is childishly stupid. Anyone who understands how real economies work would understand that a non-capitalist system can not produce such huge rates and no economy can sustain such rates without a bubble bursting.

      As a verrrrry simple metric go check out what their stock market has done in the last year. Makes the Wall Street losses look like a stunned toe compared to their absolute blood bath.

      Fear not, when the tariffs break them they will come around and then both their economy and USA growth will be higher than ever. Although we know they will once again report 8%.

    25. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, I thought you were talking about the USA in your first paragraph.

    26. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speak for yourself. I plan to be here. And still speaking English. And cared for by my pack of starving Chinese servants who are thrilled to get a job working for a white man instead of dying in a dried up rice field.

    27. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by someoneOtherThanMe · · Score: 1

      True, but the consequences of major changes in elementary school curriculum may well last that long. A 5-year-old Kenyan boy may be a CEO in 2069.

    28. Re: Designed and Engineered in the USA by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Given the state of education, they'll be asking him, "Kenya do it?"

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  2. So by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By 2050 2 of the 3 most crowded countries will speak chinese ?

    1. Re:So by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mandarin, not "Chinese".

    2. Re: So by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      unlikely. It is possible at times that many people may be fluent but with critical mass, fluency of so many should lead to fluency of the entire country. If it doesnt then you would have to have some cultural reason why it would not be accepted. All of the good meditation does is wasted on Americans because very few Americans see a benefit from meditation so there is likely no critical mass there. It would be expected because of the nature of meditation. I have never heard many people say they like meditation even though there is no reason at all to dislike it

    3. Re:So by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kanye knows Mandarin?

    4. Re: So by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      30% of the population is under 10 in Kenya.
      45% is under 20.
      And women have 5.5 child.
      How long will it take so that 80% of the population is able so speak mandarin ?

    5. Re:So by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      By 2050 2 of the 3 most crowded countries will speak chinese ?

      You think Kenya is crowded? It's less densely populated than Austria, Switzerland and Italy.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    6. Re: So by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weâ(TM)re talking negroes here, so the best guess is probably âoewhen hell freezes overâ.

    7. Re: So by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chinkspeak is chinkspeak.

    8. Re:So by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      You think Kenya is crowded? It's less densely populated than Austria, Switzerland and Italy.

      China isn't very crowded either, on average. By population density, it is 88th.

      Western China has some immense empty spaces.

      List of countries by population density

    9. Re: So by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Weâ(TM)re talking negroes here, so the best guess is probably âoewhen hell freezes overâ.

      yeah, but they are good at learning foreign languages, according to my observations

    10. Re:So by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, you mean Tibet, right?

  3. Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The first step of many towards English losing it's place as the premier language in the world and the world's "second language". More countries will switch as China replaces US as biggest economic power. No surprise it's happening in Kenya as Africa is heavily invested in by China.

    A better investment would be if the world adopted Esperanto; so much easier to learn than Mandarin. Based on European languages, so very easy for an English speaker to learn- especially since it was designed to be easy to learn (2 months to become low-level conversational)... and guess who else is a big believer in Esperanto? China. China already publishes all their official news in Mandarin AND Esperanto.

    I bet if the EU committed to Esperanto as a universal second language, China would too- and the rest of the world would follow. Makes so much more sense than the world learning English or Mandarin, two of the hardest languages to learn as an adult.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    1. Re: Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Who said they are learning Chinese instead of English, they are learning Chinese in addition to English.

    2. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      More countries will switch as China replaces US as biggest economic power. No surprise it's happening in Kenya as Africa is heavily invested in by China.

      This. I've heard of it happening in other countries recently too.

      Countries see what's up. The US is declining as world power, and China is the big rising star. It'll be the biggest economy, the most powerful nation, and it's splashing money around like mad to buy influence. It's locking up long term resources.

      Long run, China replaces the US as top dog. People want to be on good terms with the new big dog in the yard.

      That might be okay except they treat minorities much worse than USA does and has a shitty human rights record. (And USA is nothing to aspire! but China is far worse yet).

    3. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      English hard to learn? You must be joking, right?

      No, I don't think he is.

      Although, considering Poe's law, I suppose you might be. So maybe my whoosh.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    4. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      English is too irregular to be easy to learn.

    5. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      compared to what? fuck off.

    6. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah right!

    7. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by larryjoe · · Score: 3, Informative

      The first step of many towards English losing it's place as the premier language in the world and the world's "second language". More countries will switch as China replaces US as biggest economic power.

      It may be possible that China becomes the dominant economic power in the world. A path towards that possibility is entirely reasonable.

      However, Chinese will never become a linga franca of choice. It's too hard to learn due to the lack of an in-band phonetic representation. To learn Chinese requires memorization of characters and a separate memorization of pronunciation. Furthermore, looking up words in a dictionary without a camera and optical character recognition is so frustrating that it's not practical for people learning Chinese as a second language. Learning English as one of the few non/loosely phonetic languages is already difficult, but Chinese is much, much harder.

      Of course, this assumes that reading is important. If Chinese is used solely as a simple conversational language, it might not be so bad.

    8. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Kokuyo · · Score: 1

      Well let's just say I'm so glad my mothertongue is almost German because learning that would have been a bitch.

      Then there's French that has, I feel, no fewer exceptions than English.

      The other latin languages aren't much better. Wanna talk about Scandinavian languages?

      Also I don't think anyone would really consider a language mastered without being able to write and read. So basically any language using a different alphabet must be way tougher to learn right?

      AFAIK Esperanto uses the same alphabet as English.

      I'll grant you that I may have had a knack for English when I learnt it but that kinda feels arrogant.

    9. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Memorization is easy, especially if you start young. And that's exactly what this plan is about.

      Memorization isn't that bad either, but Western education simultaneously loves and hates memorization and have forgotten how to teach memorization, but still assess students based on what amounts to memorization.

      --
      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    10. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're succeeding because they are on a growth projection, and they don't give a fuck what naysayers, tut-tutters, and human-rights bellyachers say.
      Just like the USA never gave a fuck, they just pretended to.

    11. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Constructed languages are all horrible. They all aim towards making a simple language, but there is a reason why no country has a simple language as the official one. However by reducing the complexity of a language, you gain precisely what you gain if a foreigner tries to speak basic English. Even if the vocabulary is good enough to say everything, the sentences becomes long and boring. Languages have developed by people having conversations and unofficial shortcuts have become official over time. This might make the language harder to learn, but at the same time once you master it, conversation becomes easier and more interesting than the flat "no exception" approach.

      To put it short: constructed languages are the Stalinistic approach to languages. Nothing is simple. You need to fill out lots of long forms and stuff just to do simple stuff. All the shortcuts to make daily life work efficiently are gone. At the same time the joy is gone too. Reading the same book before and after it has been edited for fluent language usage really makes a difference to the reading experience and even though the information in the sentences are the same, the reading speed and reading enjoyment differs greatly.

      There is another reason why I give a communistic reference. Communism and constructed languages goes hand in hand. It's about a world state where no one people should be over another and this includes nobody should benefit from being a native speaker when some people aren't native speakers.

      The comment about English being hard to learn is garbage. It comes down to teaching. Just as there are good and bad teachers, there are good and bad approaches to teaching. One of the horrible introductions to language teaching in recent years (1-2 decades) is the idea that children learn their native language by listening to it and then they suddenly learn it. Foreign languages should be the same. This has resulted in English teachers speaking English exclusively in class and the students understand nothing. The thing is that a child is able to do that once with one language and only at a certain age. Any language taught later is stored elsewhere in the brain and has to be studied more systematically to learn it properly. As annoying as it might sound, learning grammar rules like they were mathematical rules/laws is the approach, which actually works. The same with word families and how each category of word works. The rules for car happens to be the same rules for plane. You put s at the end if there are more than one etc. Finding patterns like this is rather tricky if you have to learn everything by just listening to somebody talking the language.

      It's a popular passtime online to make fun of Japanese trying to write something in English, often referred to as Engrish. It's often even worse when they speak and a lot of them claim to not be able to speak Japanese if asked. The reason is they have never really spoken English. If the teacher did the teaching by book and didn't force the students to even listen to English, then the brain isn't trained to listen to English. This can result in Japanese people being able to read English just fine, but once they travel to an English speaking country, they can't understand anybody because they haven't trained the brain to listen for the words and sounds used in English. This again is mainly an issue related to bad teaching. Studies have told us what to do and not to do, yet teachers do something else and it becomes unreasonably hard.

      English is not a hard language to learn, at least not harder than so many other languages. If it was, then I wouldn't be able to write this because I'm not a native speaker and have never been in an English speaking country. English grammar seems easy compared to say German or Russian.

    12. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spanish. French. Italian. Plenty of others.

      None are 100% regular, but they are MORE regular than English.

    13. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Solandri · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The first step of many towards English losing it's place as the premier language in the world and the world's "second language". More countries will switch as China replaces US as biggest economic power.

      That remains to be seen. GDP per capita basically measures how much productivity each citizen generates on average. The amount of inefficiency in a country's economy (due to corruption, lack of economic liquidity, and poor government policies) shows up as a lower GDP per capita.

      The U.S. has a GDP per capita of nearly $60,000. Most EU nations are between $40k-$60k. Japan is around $40k. Ireland is around $70k due to its tax policies causing most foreign businesses to set up EU HQ there. Norway's is around $75k due to its oil exports. And Switzerland and Luxembourg are higher yet due to their heavy presence in banking. Likewise, the city-states (Macau, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc) are skewed high due to not having any low-income farmers in their stats.

      Corruption or poor government policies limit the country's GDP per capita. South Korea and Taiwan's GDP per capita have stalled at around $25k-$30k for this reason. Despite both countries being capitalistic power houses, corruption and nepotism infest business practices there, and there's still a heavy stigma against women working (you cripple your productivity per capita when you discourage half of your able-bodied population from working).

      Countries without a solid capitalistic base and with high corruption or poor government policies are usually mired at a GDP per capita of around $10k. Eastern Europe and much of Central and South America.

      China is currently at $8k. If its Communist government and inherent corruption (you need to bribe people and officials to get any business done there) limits its GDP per capita to $10k, then the growth of its total GDP will stall at around $15 trillion. The U.S. and EU GDPs are already at $19 trillion each. So China would not surpass them in global economic influence. Even if China manages Taiwan-like levels of productivity (unlikely IMHO as long as its government remains Communist and insists on wasting capital on things like building empty cities), its total GDP would max out at around $35 trillion, giving it less economic influence than the U.S. and EU combined despite having twice the population.

      No surprise it's happening in Kenya as Africa is heavily invested in by China.

      China's heavy investment abroad has been fueled by its rapidly growing economy, which left it plenty of excess money to spend abroad. The signs are that growth is now slowing. (Sorry the bottom of the graph is 6%, not 0%. Every graphic I could find online did that.)

      At a 6.5% growth rate, it will take 4 years for China's GDP per capita to hit $10k, 10 years to hit $15k, and 20 years to hit $20k. So we will know in the next 10-15 years whether the Chinese economy will continue growing, or if it will stall.

    14. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      The spelling systems are much more regular. The verbs are a bastard though. Fuck knows how many tenses and subjunctives on top.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    15. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      If you really believed that, your post would have been in Esperanto.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    16. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by slack_justyb · · Score: 1

      GDP per capita

      I think there's the problem with your numbers. You are assuming that the goal is to make more people richer. However, I'm a pretty firm believer that the world is tending toward the complete opposite here as the endgame. The goal isn't to make everyone richer, it is to just simply be rich. Be that a nation takes 120 million, 1.2 billion, or somewhere in between to become rich, so be it.

      Per capita only matters if you'd like to bring all the citizens in your nation along for the ride. It used to be wise to do so to prevent uprising. Today between the ability to cheaply entertain the working labor to forget their issues, easily communicate talking points that confuse the working labor as to what their issues are, removal of competent representatives to help further the working labor's issues, and technology to replace some of that working labor and remove them as to no longer be an issue, there's less inclination to bring the working labor along for the ride up since any power they might have is easily negated.

    17. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Very well presented and an exhaustive explanation of why Mandarin is the rarest language on the planet.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    18. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many people speak it who aren't Chinamen?

      I am not a Chinaman and I speak it and as far as I know I am the only one.

    19. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Countries see what's up. The US is declining as world power, and China is the big rising star.

      Latin was the default international language for more than a millennium after the fall of Rome.

      French remained the language of diplomacy for a century after Waterloo.

      There are some big barriers to Chinese becoming the default international language:
      1. English has a huge head start.
      2. Chinese is very hard to learn as a second language if your first is atonal.
      3. Chinese is the first language in only a handful of countries. 50 countries have English as a first or official language.
      4. Even in China, English is a prestige language, and most educated and ambitious people learn it.
      5. Many countries are military allies of America, and look to America for security guarantees. English helps them interoperate. China has no real friends, and only a handful of allies (Cambodia and Pakistan) based on shared enemies (Vietnam and India respectively) not shared values.

    20. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Didn't I say you're rare?

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    21. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by yarbo · · Score: 1

      Swedish doesn't have noun-verb agreement and a manageable amount of tenses.

    22. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by larryjoe · · Score: 1

      Very well presented and an exhaustive explanation of why Mandarin is the rarest language on the planet.

      As a secondary language of choice, absolutely. The adoption of a native, first language isn't affected by the ease of learning a language because the children have no choice.

    23. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      The other latin languages aren't much better.

      Spanish and Italian map directly from spelling to pronunciation.

      So does Korean, and Japanese katakana/hiragana.

      AFAIK Esperanto uses the same alphabet as English.

      Correct, but Esperanto has standard pronunciation rules, and adds diacritic marks to some of the letters.

    24. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      The verbs are a bastard though. Fuck knows how many tenses and subjunctives on top.

      In Chinese, all of this is drop dead simple. There are no irregular verbs, no gendered pronouns (at least when spoken), tenses are handled either by context or by appending a grammatical particle that sets the tense for the entire sentence, not the individual verb, which makes way more sense.

    25. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The problem is that everyone wants to learn English so they can watch Hollywood movies and US/British TV shows. It's also very entrenched in a lot of countries where it's not the main language, e.g. in The Netherlands because there are a mixture of Dutch, German and French speakers they use English as a common language.

      The wider EU is similar. Because we have freedom of movement it's trivial to work in a different country, and many people even commute over borders every day. The common working language is English.

      Unfortunately we may be stuck with English, but the good news is that it's apparently not difficult at all for kids to learn. In many European countries English as a second language is nearly universal.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    26. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Chinese is used solely as a simple conversational language, it might not be so bad.

      Not even. Chinese is absolutely terrible to learn as a conversational language because if you screw up the inflection, you can change the entire meaning of the sentence.

    27. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by larryjoe · · Score: 1

      Memorization is easy, especially if you start young. And that's exactly what this plan is about.

      Memorization isn't that bad either, but Western education simultaneously loves and hates memorization and have forgotten how to teach memorization, but still assess students based on what amounts to memorization.

      It's interesting to note that English in the US used to be largely taught based on memorization. The relatively recent change to learning based on phonics or phonetic rules and patterns is a shift from memorization that has arguably helped more people to read English. In my opinion, learning English has some similarities to learning chemistry rules, i.e., there are lots of patterns and rules mixed with a lot of exceptions. There are enough exceptions that that learning rules is not enough without memorization. However, a lack of rules makes learning new words challenging.

    28. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Second place is about to move into first.

      People embrace cultures that are affluent. The times, they are a-changing.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    29. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All economies are going to stall as global warming overtake humanity within the next 300 to 350 years. With oxygenation at depth dropping as a result of increasing temperatures, marginal populations dwelling at depth are at severe risk of local extinction. A a result the source of half of humanities intake of protein will begin to vanish as entire populations of hundreds and thousands of species become locally extinct, if not extinct. Sadly, most of that is now built into the system as equilibrium has yet to be achieved with rising world temperatures.

      The problem for humans, who rely on the sea as a resource, is that ecological relationships that took millions of years to co-evolve in a highly complex fashion can be easily disrupted completely over very short time scales. This makes them extremely fragile in an evolutionary sense. As extinction rates accelerate, the relationships of organisms occupying the remaining niches dramatically change and more food webs with a reduced number of levels is observed. This is seen in the growing preponderance of Cnidarians occupying the terminal ends of food webs with greatly reduced levels and displacing vertebrates as a worldwide phenomenon. Humans will need to soon start harvesting more Cnidaria to save populations of vertebrates in some areas, as well as learn to control their contributions to dinoflagelate blooms that are currently wracking Florida marine waters with republican environmental regulators in charge.

    30. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Memorization is easy, especially if you start young. And that's exactly what this plan is about.

      Memorization is a great way to get rid of people who can think for themselves by claiming they are too "dumb" to "learn".

    31. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      China has absolutely awful demographics. This kind of 'ohh - XXX country is kicking
      butt and will be top dog in YYYY' pops up every decade or so. Well in a few short years,
      the growth rate in China will collapse to near zero - countries full of old people just don't
      generate growth because they become conservative and ossified. Furthermore, there will
      be a truly massive debt crisis and economic downturn. High growth tends to push beyond
      sustainable boundaries as the government pile on the steroids at the end to keep the party
      going. China has been heading in that direction for some years now, and the hangover will
      be nasty. I have witnessed this first hand in Japan, a good example of the impact of really
      bad demographics. Same in south Korea, Taiwan... list goes on.

      Fixing China's demographics with immigrants doesn't work, because it's too big. Robotics
      isn't ready yet, though it is moving forward. And I dont think even China would be willing to
      use euthanasia on the scale that would be required to flip the age balance. So in short,
      China looks like it will become an economy on a similar size to the USA, possibly even a
      little larger. But the most powerful overall? seems doubtful given the structural issues.

    32. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You say it's like the truth yet the following completely describes the US.

      "Countries without a solid capitalistic base and with high corruption or poor government policies..."

      You feel good rationale doesn't completely explain the dominance of the US. For me, US dominates because she has avoided all the world wars and took advantage of them because everyone needed stability and security. So they took all the talent and capital. The first mover advantage eventually gave them monopolistic power which is hard to break.

    33. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It takes about 1-2 years to basically learn to read and write a phonetic language like english.
      My mother used to teach adults to read/write english (amazing how people could get through
      School without learning, but it does happen). It used to take her about 18 months to get them
      basically literate.

      To learn to read Chinese characters is a 5 year proposition for most people, maybe 2 years if
      you are willing to devote 3-4 hours a day, every day. You could double that for traditional Chinese
      in Hong Kong or Taiwan. I can read about 1000 Chinese characters used in Japanese, and it's
      taken me many years to get this point (mainly because I only do it in bursts). As for writing, I've
      abandoned that as a waste of time, since it would double or triple the time required, and anyway
      PCs and Smartphones have phonetic lookups so it's not really necessary these days.

      Given what I've seen, my honest assessment is that pictographic writing systems are a failed approach.
      Phonetic writing systems are the winner overall. It's a bit like comparing Roman numerals (or any
      similar numbering system) with the Arabic numbering system. The Arabic system is just better,
      particularly when you include the Indian zero. Easier to work with and do arithmetic with. Extensible
      (dont need new character for each power of 10). etc.. If a pictographic system wants to include an
      imported foreign word, there is no particularly good way of doing it. Do you combine pictographs to try
      to convey meaning, or try to keep the sound with unrelated pictographs? In a phonetic language, it's
      usually just sound - Karaoke anyway?? pretty easy. You dont really get any payback for the extra
      years you need to spend learning the pictographs. Same result but with 2x or 3x the effort. Also, a
      phonetic system like the Roman alphabet supports most European languages with minimal extension.
      Using Chinese characters with non Chinese languages is a nightmare. The way that Chinese characters
      were forced into the Japanese language is just horrible. At least two readings for each character -
      sometimes more. Lots of exceptions as well. The grammar doesnt match at all, so there are phonetic
      kana characters all over the place as well to fill in the grammatical gaps. The reading of a character
      depends on which province the Chinese missionary who brought it in came from. The Koreans made
      the right call, chuck it in the waste bin and just outright replace it with something phonetic that matches
      the language. Worked for them, but sadly too late in Japan. I dont think that most Africans are going to
      be learning Chinese characters. Learning to speak and understand Mandarin, yes. Reading/writing - a
      few of the elite maybe but generally no.

    34. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 1

      I grew up with people who learned with the "rules" and they can't spell worth a damn. You need to learn both the rules, and put work in to memorize.

      It's a wonder why people still oppose memorization as though anyone who mentions it must be promoting memorization above all else.

      --
      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    35. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 1

      The people who are too dumb to learn tend to have poor memorization capabilities.

      --
      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    36. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by someoneOtherThanMe · · Score: 1

      Spanish and Italian map directly from spelling to pronunciation.

      I thought French does, too? Just that in Italian it's both ways (if you know the rules, you can write any word that you can speak, and vice versa), while in French only the written-to-spoken is unambiguous?

      Anyway, most Slavic languages also map directly, as do German, Albanian, and I believe also Hungarian. But the grammar in most of those is more complicated than Italian.

    37. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      The Netherlands because there are a mixture of Dutch, German and French speakers they use English as a common language

      Simila in Belgium: you'e much better off speaking English than attempting the local languages because if you use the wrong one people ger REALLY pissed off and can be incedibly rude. But if you stick to English you just seem like a tourist and are generally OK.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    38. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by qaz123 · · Score: 1

      To learn Chinese requires memorization of characters and a separate memorization of pronunciation

      As if in English you can infer pronunciation from spelling. In Spanish or German or Russian - you can. In English - you can't. You have to memorize

    39. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Memorization is easy, especially if you start young. And that's exactly what this plan is about.

      Memorization isn't that bad either, but Western education simultaneously loves and hates memorization and have forgotten how to teach memorization, but still assess students based on what amounts to memorization.

      Memorisation is a problem as it does not impart an understanding of the language. However the problem with Mandarin is its extreme inflexibility. The language is tone dependent which makes it incompatible with the way non-Mandarin speakers talk.

      The reason English is the international language isn't due to the fact that the English spread it, the French and Spanish were trying to do the exact same thing. Hell, there are more native Spanish speakers than native English speakers... English is the larger language because of all the L2 speakers (as a second language), there are 40 million L2 Spanish speakers but 740 million L2 English speakers. So why did English take off instead of Spanish? The key is in the flexibility of English, English is a language that allows for a totally foreign syntax to be used and yet remains intelligible to the native speaker. That kind of malleability that gave rise to Indian English, Spanglish, Chinglish and many others meant that it was easy for a person from a completely different language to learn English because they didn't need to learn a strict syntax to speak it. Spanish OTOH is a far more inflexible language and Spanish is nowhere near as bad as Sino and Asian languages which take inflexibility up to 11, which is why most of the language is learned by rote memorisation which is part of the problem.

      However at the moment, this is just Kenyan schools offering the chance to learn Mandarin, not every student being forced to learn it.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    40. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by larryjoe · · Score: 1

      To learn Chinese requires memorization of characters and a separate memorization of pronunciation

      As if in English you can infer pronunciation from spelling. In Spanish or German or Russian - you can. In English - you can't. You have to memorize

      English is a psuedo-phonetic language. That's why it's possible to teach phonics to kids to help them learn how to read. There are rules with lots of exceptions. In contrast, Chinese has a few patterns with no phonetic rules.

    41. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Well let's just say I'm so glad my mothertongue is almost German because learning that would have been a bitch.

      Then there's French that has, I feel, no fewer exceptions than English.

      The other latin languages aren't much better. Wanna talk about Scandinavian languages?

      Also I don't think anyone would really consider a language mastered without being able to write and read. So basically any language using a different alphabet must be way tougher to learn right?

      AFAIK Esperanto uses the same alphabet as English.

      I'll grant you that I may have had a knack for English when I learnt it but that kinda feels arrogant.

      French is probably worse than English because they have never updated spelling even though pronunciation of some words is nothing like what is written. English has this too- but French is much worse. You can't always phonetically read English like you can Spanish, or Esperanto; but French is worse- the spelling of words is often completely different to the pronunciation.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    42. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      I thought French does, too?

      Not even close- it's worse than English. French standardized spelling so long ago and never updated it- nowadays many words are written completely different to how they are pronounced. Spanish is great- you know exactly how to pronounce a word. English, there are usually a few ways a given word could be pronounced based on phonetics... French is a complete minefield. The words are written as they were pronounced centuries ago which is often completely different to how they are pronounced today. Imagine reading/writing in Middle English and speaking in Modern English.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    43. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Phonetics are a good guide for when you meet words that you are unfamiliar with but it really isn't enough to be fully competent. Rules are important to be taught but it really isn't enough by itself.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    44. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      As if in English you can infer pronunciation from spelling. In Spanish or German or Russian - you can. In English - you can't. You have to memorize

      For many words yes, you're right. English is hard; but at least in English the spelling does give some sort of hint, even if it's frequently wrong.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    45. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Constructed languages are all horrible. They all aim towards making a simple language, but there is a reason why no country has a simple language as the official one. However by reducing the complexity of a language, you gain precisely what you gain if a foreigner tries to speak basic English. Even if the vocabulary is good enough to say everything, the sentences becomes long and boring.

      Esperanto is very flexible. All root words are infinitely mod-able and thus, even though there are fewer root words to learn the language is very expressive... AND the sentences are usually shorter than English. The flexibility of word order (far more flexible than English or most languages) allow for more creative expression whilst still being easy to understand.

      I suspect you know nothing about constructed languages. :)

       

      To put it short: constructed languages are the Stalinistic approach to languages.

      Yes, very Stalinistic... that's probably why Stalin imprisoned anyone who spoke Esperanto. Once again, sorry, but you're completely wrong.

      Nothing is simple. You need to fill out lots of long forms and stuff just to do simple stuff.

      Do you use machine code to write all your apps? Even simple ones? Plenty of things are simple- and plenty of things can be improved by simplification.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    46. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      If you really believed that, your post would have been in Esperanto.

      It would have taken me twice as long to write because I don't use my Esperanto very often so it's pretty rusty. I do speak/write basic Esperanto well enough that I've read a couple books written in it and had a couple of basic conversations in it; but I'm far from an expert due to little chance to use... and I learnt it in two months on a whim as a New Year's resolution to learn a new language one year.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    47. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it was a craze back in the early 60s and it's still there.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    48. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      French remained the language of diplomacy for a century after Waterloo.

      French is still the international language of diplomacy. For example, between my wife's British and Russian passports, the only language in common is French.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    49. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Dr_Terminus · · Score: 1

      Do you have any examples of French words where the pronunciation is different than how they are supposed to be pronounced? I can't think of any examples of this... all words I can think of are straightforward to pronounce if you know the rules.

    50. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 1

      Memorisation is a problem as it does not impart an understanding of the language

      Absolutely NO ONE is saying "memorize and do nothing else". It's a key learning tool and helps with other things to gain an understanding of the language. You start of rambling about extreme inflexibility because of its tone dependence:

      However the problem with Mandarin is its extreme inflexibility. The language is tone dependent which makes it incompatible with the way non-Mandarin speakers talk.

      Then go off on a completely unrelated tangent about syntax:

      The key is in the flexibility of English, English is a language that allows for a totally foreign syntax to be used and yet remains intelligible to the native speaker.

      What has syntax got to do with tone dependence? Have you even learnt Chinese? Chinese grammar is very flexible as to be almost non-existent. In fact, Chinese grammar is very close to English because both languages developed through transmission and absorption of different cultures.

      That kind of malleability that gave rise to Indian English, Spanglish, Chinglish and many others meant that it was easy for a person from a completely different language to learn English because they didn't need to learn a strict syntax to speak it.

      You don't need a strict "syntax" to speak Chinese. What the fuck are you on about? It sounds like you're just making up nonsense instead of actually looking at reality.

      And if you bothered to study any history, you'd know that Chinese influenced the development of languages around it - Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese. For the longest time, the educated classes of those civilizations spoke and wrote Chinese just as well as any native Chinese person.

      And surprise surprise, do you know what group that the French, Spanish and Italian languages belong to? Romance languages. All of those languages was derived from Latin, which is even stricter than those languages. The supposed difficulty of Latin hasn't stopped it from being spread.

      It's a wonder why so many supposedly "nerds" on this site seems to actually hate learning anything and are deathly afraid of learning something that is "difficult" on the surface.

      --
      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    51. Re:Learn Esperanto instead- China approved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you Ivan. Do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?

  4. Re:Designed and Engineered in China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Made in Kenya

  5. Good idea by registrations_suck · · Score: 1

    It is bound to be a lot more useful to those kids in a global commerce environment than Swahili.

    1. Re:Good idea by kalieaire · · Score: 2

      "Hello this is the Chinese Consulate of San Francisco calling. We have an urgent message regarding an incident at the Chinese border in Shanghai. You've been implicated in a serious crime."

    2. Re:Good idea by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Funny

      I wonder if in 20 years, Chinese people will be bitching about talking with "Yang" or "Li" in the call center when they know it's really someone from Kenya.

    3. Re:Good idea by Mashiki · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is bound to be a lot more useful to those kids in a global commerce environment than Swahili.

      China is doing this because they own significant parts of Kenya along with their debt. Kenya is behind on payments too, bet you really haven't heard much on that.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    4. Re:Good idea by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      The most useful language to learn is not the most common you do not already speak but the most common among people you do not already have a common language and are likely to encounter. What is the likelihood of someone from Kenya need to converse with someone who speaks Mandarin Chinese but not the English that Kenyan students already are taught?

      While there are many people who speak Chinese as a first language, they are mainly in China. In addition, while Mandarin is the 4th most used L2 language, they mostly are in other parts of China.

      Swahili itself is the 8th most used L2 language, and it developed as a lingua franca for... non-local commerce.

    5. Re:Good idea by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Swahili itself is the 8th most used L2 language, and it developed as a lingua franca for... non-local commerce.

      Indeed. Intra-African trade is very low by world standards. African countries would benefit far more by lowering trade barriers with each other than from mortgaging their assets to China.

    6. Re:Good idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With the US and the UK now ceding Europe and Central south Asia to the Russians, Iranians, Chinese and Turks and Pakistanis and Indians, as well as most of a soon departed Europe, all that greatly outnumber English speakers leading to a continual decline of English in all but technical papers, which soon too will be overtaken now that the US scientific community has been shut down.

    7. Re: Good idea by registrations_suck · · Score: 1

      Yes, I knew that. All the more reason for Kenyans to learn Mandarin.

    8. Re: Good idea by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Yes, I knew that. All the more reason for Kenyans to learn Mandarin.

      Not many people do especially since it doesn't get much play in western media. It'd be better for them to learn English as well, even in China they've made the same decision as Japan, S.Korea and Singapore to have dual-language classes fully through high school.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  6. Loss of influence. by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    The biggest problem is the US, and EU is loosing its global influence, and politically many of these countries, are moving to becoming more isolated. While China who had been historically the isolated country, is started to become more involved in world affairs and trade.

    This is bad for US and the EU in general, because as we become more isolated, we cut off more and more potential customers. The growth of the US after WWII was in part mostly from rebuilding the rest of the world. The billions of dollars that went to fix foreign countries = trillion of dollars of future trade. As we create countries, who learned how to deal with the US and created compatible business models, and was able to show and present products they may be interested in buying.

    The US and EU have sucked in our dealing with Africa, mostly realizing that the area is too hospitable to colonize, they just left it alone. Not realizing there is a population of workers being under under utilized, and can be supported to be stronger economies, which in turn create more customers.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:Loss of influence. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As we create countries, who learned how to deal with the US and created compatible business models, and was able to show and present products they may be interested in buying.

      Creating compatible business models with China is very easy though. You only must do whatever the party says. That will usually be clamping down on criticism of the party and mentions of human rights, freedom, and so on.

    2. Re:Loss of influence. by alvinrod · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The US and EU have sucked in our dealing with Africa, mostly realizing that the area is too hospitable to colonize, they just left it alone. Not realizing there is a population of workers being under under utilized, and can be supported to be stronger economies, which in turn create more customers.

      I don't think it's that. Trying to get involved in Africa as a western company just gets a mountain of whinging twats complaining about colonialism on Twitter or other social media.

      China doesn't give two fucks. They're rounding up religious minorities and sending them to reeducation camps. They won't care about international criticism from those former groups on Twitter either.

    3. Re:Loss of influence. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      China doesn't give two fucks. They're rounding up religious minorities and sending them to reeducation camps. They won't care about international criticism from those former groups on Twitter either.

      China doesn't care about domestic criticism either--hence the "camps".

    4. Re:Loss of influence. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Care to post some of these tweets about a Western companies getting involved in investment, and getting complaints about colonialism?

  7. Not mentioned and the reason... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is that China is colonizing the African continent, filling the vacuum left by US and British withdrawal. You won't find a more racist culture than the Chinese either.

  8. Good by nospam007 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's always a good idea to learn the language of the master class that bought your country.

    1. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If only there were a mod for Insightful+Funny+Sad, all at once.

    2. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least the Chinese bought it - the last lot of colonials stole it.

    3. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We should call it the "I'm 14 and this is deep" mod.

  9. China! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    China numba one!

  10. I object to cultural appropriation of Mandarin by sinij · · Score: 3, Funny

    I object to cultural appropriation of Mandarin and find Kenyan actions deeply offensive. This is one step removed from wearing yellowface.

    1. Re:I object to cultural appropriation of Mandarin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Found the racist prick. Guilty dogs be barking.

    2. Re:I object to cultural appropriation of Mandarin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Found the SJW wanker. Insecure twats be whining.

  11. Good luck by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 1

    We'll see if their students really get any good at Mandarin in large enough numbers to be meaningful. English became a world language in large part because spelling aside, and there are reasons (sometimes dumb one though) for English spelling being what it is, English is just not all that difficult of a language to learn.

    Pros of English:
    No grammatical cases (except for a few pronouns).
    Roman alphabet widely known in the world.
    No gender for words. Nouns aren't masculine, feminine or neuter.

    Cons of English:
    Spelling, but again, there are real reasons for why some/many words are spelled strangely.
    Verbs can be ridiculously complicated. I know of no other language where you can say "All the faith he had had had had no effect on the outcome of his life." and have it make complete sense and be accurate. In fact, if you're a native speaker and you hear this said, it's a lot easier to understand that reading it.

    I'm wondering if in the end, this will just be a lot like people in non-English speaking countries in Asia (not Singapore though) who have mandatory English classes, but in reality the students aren't very good at it. Like in Japan, for example. There are some very real downsides to learning Mandarin though.

    Pros of Mandarin:
    Grammar is ridiculously easy. Verbs don't conjugate. They use adverbs to indicate past or future tense, not verb changes.
    I think i read that there are only something like 400 possible syllables in Mandarin where as English has over 15,000.

    Cons of Mandarin:
    Chinese characters are far more numerous than an alphabet and take a very long time to learn. This is why even in China schools teach little kids Mandarin via pinyin (this is Mandarin written in the Roman alphabet in a way to indicate the tones). I doubt that more than 1 student in 100 who studies Chinese in Kenya will ever get close to fluency in Chinese characters. This makes them essentially illiterate, although the same problem exists with Japanese learners, for example.
    Tones. If Kenyans speak an African language with tones, this may not be a big deal, but as a native English speaker who knows a tiny bit of Mandarin and Cantonese I can tell you that getting used to tones is a gigantic problem for many foreign students and probably most will never get very good at it.

    If all Kenya does is produce a bunch of students who can read and write pinyin but not really anything else, we'll see how this goes.

    1. Re:Good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it won't matter when the US doesn't make it to their 3rd centennial, the next global shift (just as we saw the us dollar and english language since usa won ww2) will be to chinese.

  12. Firefly called it by zarmanto · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In the short-lived series, Firefly, Mandarin Chinese was a common second language. So... a good prediction, or life imitating art?

    1. Re:Firefly called it by zugmeister · · Score: 4, Insightful

      a good prediction, or life imitating art?

      Third option: Firefly was just that awesome.

  13. Colonialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Africa is doomed to be someone's colony. Hopefully the Chinese will be benevolent overlords.

  14. Hung hao , Gonxi gonxi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    woa xiang kenyajen hao Congmíng

    1. Re:Hung hao , Gonxi gonxi by fibonacci8 · · Score: 1

      ni xiang ken ni ya ren hen cong ming ba. ni cuo bie zi le.

      --
      Inheritance is the sincerest form of nepotism.
  15. Cheap and substandard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It won't be long for China before a downtrend gets them. Cheap, substandard, as well as stolen trade secrets will leave them economically isolated with nothing but scraps from the world economy, which is why they're investing in Kenya.

    1. Re:Cheap and substandard by EmagGeek · · Score: 2

      They're investing in Kenya to get a monopoly on Tantalum, Niobium, and other rare elements for capacitors.

    2. Re:Cheap and substandard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're investing in Kenya to get a monopoly on Tantalum, Niobium, and other rare elements for capacitors.

      I hope hey don't find the Vibranium mines.

  16. And you americans worry about a few... by ZombieCatInABox · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And you americans worry about a few thousand spanish speaking illegals entering your country from the southern border... Your turn will come soon enough.

    And what about all those whiny canadian anglos bitching because the big bad federal governement forces them to learn french in school. Try to avoid hearing mandarin or cantoneese anywhere in Vancouver these days. You too will be forced to jump on the chineese band wagon.

    China doesn't need nuclear weapons. All it needs is to move five hundred million chinese along the border of the country they want to invade, and have them yell "BANG !" all together.

    1. Re:And you americans worry about a few... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a God-damned idiot. There are already tens of millions of Hispanic people in the U.S. who would not be here if it weren't for illegal immigration. These same Hispanic people are so stupid and/or lazy that they cannot even manage to learn English well enough to function in society so the government forces American taxpayers to fund Spanish-language services for these idiots. And before you go off on a tiresome rant about racism, other non-white immigrants who entered the U.S. legally have done far better than Hispanic people despite having been in the country for less time.

      A few thousand pieces of human trash at the border frightening the U.S.? No. It's just that the country must start somewhere at drawing a line in the sand at stopping illegal immigrants who cannot or will not integrate into society and create a burden that harms the American middle class the most.

    2. Re:And you americans worry about a few... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There are already tens of millions of Hispanic people in the U.S. "

      Exaggerate much? True estimates are closer to 11 million undocumented immigrants, non-specific to Hispanics. Calm down, Kerchak.

    3. Re:And you americans worry about a few... by ZombieCatInABox · · Score: 1

      Found the trumptard.

    4. Re: And you americans worry about a few... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Canada education is a provincial responsibility. The federal government has no say in the educational curriculum.

    5. Re:And you americans worry about a few... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Found the Chinese shill.

    6. Re:And you americans worry about a few... by kackle · · Score: 1

      Both are/would be problems.

      And it was 300,000+ who tried to enter in 2017 alone. That's millions over a few years, that we know about.

    7. Re:And you americans worry about a few... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Vancouver is only 20% Chinese. Maybe in Canada 20% is a huge percentage, but there are far more Chinese people living in California than living in Vancouver (San Francisco, for instance, is 22% Chinese)

      While I'm at it, the US as a whole is 17% Hispanic.

    8. Re:And you americans worry about a few... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'undocumented'? you mean illegal aliens don't you?

    9. Re:And you americans worry about a few... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      found the communist.

  17. colonialism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    colonialism is only bad when whites do it.
    be assured the chinese will be much less pleasant masters.

  18. Spelling for one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    English doesn't have one rule for spelling that'll work for all. In some languages they don't have spelling bees because nobody will miss a word. English is already the lingua franca for scientific communications but to truly be the global language, spelling must match the pronunciation. Currently system of memorizing exceptions to the rule is a barrier.

    1. Re:Spelling for one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And can you tell us the advantage of chinese in this regard as here you have to learn by heart the pronunciation of every character?

    2. Re:Spelling for one by CaptainDork · · Score: 2

      You insensitive clod.

      Those languages don't have spelling bees because of colony collapse disorder.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    3. Re:Spelling for one by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      you have to learn by heart the pronunciation of every character?

      Actually, you don't. Many hanzi have both a "meaning" radical and a "pronunciation" radical.

      Learning the 2-3 thousand hanzi needed to read a newspaper is hard, but not that hard. A billion people have done it.

    4. Re:Spelling for one by _merlin · · Score: 1

      You don't. In Chinese you can often tell the pronunciation from one radical in the character. When you come across an unfamiliar character, you have a fairly good chance of guessing the pronunciation correctly. I thought this sounded ridiculous when a Chinese friend told me, but after a month in Shanghai, I was correctly reading street names with characters I didn't recognise. It actually isn't that hard.

    5. Re:Spelling for one by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Learning the 2-3 thousand hanzi needed to read a newspaper is hard, but not that hard. A billion people have done it.

      Thus my clarification a few posts up that Mandarin is hard to learn as an adult. With something like Esperanto you can learn it as a second language in months. Mandarin would take years to master. We're much harder to teach languages to as we get older. A complex language like Mandarin is very hard for older people- but obviously if you learn it as a kid it's not as hard.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  19. Makes sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Disclaimer: I'm an American who has been to Kenya recently.

    For English not familiar with the national language (Swahili), you see some Swahili words in The Lion King (simba, rafiki, hakuna matata).
    Everyone is multi-lingual. You start with your local/regional/tribe language (20-60 of them?). You then learn swahili when you go to school or travel. As you progress and want to start interacting with foreigners, you learn English. Kenya was a British colony in the early 20th century. The capital Nairobi was founded as an British railway town, and people learned English.

    China just funded and operates the new Nairobi/Mombasa railroad that's key to getting goods to and from the shipyards in Mombasa inland to other parts of Africa through Nairobi.

        https://www.npr.org/2018/10/08/641625157/a-new-chinese-funded-railway-in-kenya-sparks-debt-trap-fears

    New road construction has chinese-sounding names on the green tractors, not American Caterpillar or .Japanese Komatsu.
    Kenya Airways has flights from China. I saw many Chinese tourists.
    Managers of Chinese-owned operations would benefit from having more Kenyans know Chinese rather than possibly double-translating through English.
    If you want to be successful working with the new Chinese money and management, it helps to speak Chinese, right?

    Wake up western colonizers. China is learning from the IMF and World Bank of the last century.

    1. Re:Makes sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So if the West does it, they're "colonizers" but if China does it that's just good business?

    2. Re:Makes sense by rahvin112 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Wake up western colonizers. China is learning from the IMF and World Bank of the last century.

      The Irony of this statement cannot be overlooked. China is engaged in the second wave of colonization of the third world. They are exporting millions of Chinese citizens to countries like Kenya as part of their Road and Belt initiative. The countries involved are tolerant of this just like they were the Europeans because the Chinese are paying off all the right people right now to keep this suppressed. At some point down the road the populace will figure out what's going on and it'll end up just like European colonialism.

      What China is doing is just a reshoe of European Colonialism. The first thing the European colonizers did was build infrastructure funded by their own government. They also used the current Chinese practice of giving loans to the countries they couldn't afford and then seized the product afterwards.

      You might think the Chinese would be smarter than the Europeans had been but they are just as racist and just as entitled and will abuse these undeveloped countries just like the Europeans did. If you supported these countries you would realize they are being abused.

    3. Re:Makes sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what are the alternatives are you suggesting if you want to be integrated into the global economy?

  20. Hmm, very interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why the fuck (click bait) Does this even matter in out part of the werld?
    Why is this newz 4 nerdz?
    What the FUCK does this really have to do with anything related to the meaning of this website..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c91XUyg9iWM

    Perhaps those whom are unaware, the above link I think best describes the situation @ hand.

    again and again,, fucking stupid
    Go find a foot, and stick it in ur mouth.. Please

  21. Not switch, English is offical by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 4, Informative

    English is the (or a) official language of Kenya, Uganda and South Africa, the three countries mentioned in the summary. This is about adding Mandarin (as an elective) in schools, not replacing English.

    --
    Your ad here. Ask me how!
    1. Re:Not switch, English is offical by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      Have.....to......resist! I........must not....be........a grammar Nazi!

      Whew, that was hard. OTOH, +1 informative.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
  22. Just switching one colonial master for a new one. by Koreantoast · · Score: 1

    Just switching one colonial master for a new one. Or sucker for elites to steal money from. Pick your interpretation.

  23. We Can Wait Out China's Demographic Time Bomb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's ok, the west can wait them out. Give it another 15 - 20 years and their population will grow old -they will be a has-been just like Japan. Remember the Japanese boogeyman from the 1980s? Yes, populations have been declining in most western countries too, but not nearly as dramatically, and immigration has helped to buoy western countries.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/china-demographic-time-bomb-one-child-limit-2018-8

    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/chinas-rapidly-ageing-workforce-threatens-its-economy-but-beijing-still-discourages-childbirth/news-story/b1918b24ac721bbda3e92ebb1fe6afd9

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201802/07/WS5a7a35cea3106e7dcc13b2a2.html

  24. China learning same lessons West did by Koreantoast · · Score: 1

    The US and EU have sucked in our dealing with Africa, mostly realizing that the area is too hospitable to colonize, they just left it alone. Not realizing there is a population of workers being under under utilized, and can be supported to be stronger economies, which in turn create more customers.

    No, the US and EU has learned from experience that Africa is a hard place to do business for a lot of reasons (corruption, lack of infrastructure, political instability, etc.), which has made them cautious. The Chinese don't have experience with this, but they're quickly re-learning the colonial / imperial lessons that Western nations have learned. As the Chinese dump money into the continent, they're starting to learn that these projects aren't as simple or profitable. Raises the question of what happens when African nations start defaulting on Chinese loans? Will China be sucked into the same cycle of violence that Western nations are engaged in to try to protect or recoup their investments?

  25. Outstanding by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1

    Perhaps China will start getting their fair share of the Nigerian Prince email scams too :D

  26. GDP per capita is useless by aepervius · · Score: 1

    You need the GDP per capita with PPP (purchase power parity) correction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... as such china is already ahead of all the country you listed yes they have only 8K$ GDP but with ppp correction you realize they are ahead already of everybody. Furthermore the GDP per capita contains not only good but also service. Eliminate the bank and financial sector from the GDP per capita and the picture may not be as rosy for the US and some heavily financial service invested countries (e.g. the UK which will lose quite a bit of it with brexit). Once you take into account both those factor the US even drop further.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  27. good luck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    good luck teaching chinese to a negroid

  28. africa will be owned by china by sad_ · · Score: 1

    obviously, china is investing heavily in china, it makes sense for them to do this;

    https://youtu.be/zQV_DKQkT8o

    --
    On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
  29. China is taking over stupid Africans... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Easier than trying to mass migrate to white countries. God help us. A world with billions more soullless Chinese in it, what could possibly go wrong?

  30. i wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    when the next machete civil war comes, if those blacks will move to china, or england, or america, considering its the languages they SORTA speak, and if i will have the tremendous pleasure of not finding them in the streets of MY FUCKING COUNTRY, that has NOTHING to do with them or with africa