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The Internet, Divided Between the US and China, Has Become a Battleground (wsj.com)

Posted by msmash on from the closer-look dept.

The global internet is splitting in two. From a report: One side, championed in China, is a digital landscape where mobile payments have replaced cash. Smartphones are the devices that matter, and users can shop, chat, bank and surf the web with one app. The downsides: The government reigns absolute, and it is watching -- you may have to communicate with friends in code. And don't expect to access Google or Facebook.

On the other side, in much of the world, the internet is open to all. Users can say what they want, mostly, and web developers can roll out pretty much anything. People accustomed to China's version complain this other internet can seem clunky. You must toggle among apps to chat, shop, bank and surf the web. Some websites still don't seem to be designed with smartphones in mind. The two zones are beginning to clash with the advent of the superfast new generation of mobile technology called 5G.

China aims to be the biggest provider of gear underlying the networks, and along with that it is pushing client countries to adopt its approach to the web -- essentially urging some to use versions of the "Great Firewall" that Beijing uses to control its internet and contain the West's influence. Battles are popping up around the world as Chinese tech giants try to use their market power at home to expand abroad, something they've largely failed to do so far. Some Silicon Valley executives worry the divergence risks giving Chinese companies an advantage in new technologies such as artificial intelligence, partly because they face fewer restrictions over privacy and data protection. Further reading: Former Google CEO Eric Schmidt Predicts the Internet Will Split in Two By 2028 -- and One Part Will Be Led By China.

17 of 176 comments (clear)

  1. With or without China's urging... by QuietLagoon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... I expect the Internet world to segment into Internet countries. The Internet, as we know it today, will be a relic in 20 years.

    1. Re:With or without China's urging... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yea, the powers that be try to wrestle control away from the people and to governments and lobbies.

      Russia recently had their "disconnect from the rest of the world" test.
      China has its Great Firewall.
      The EU soon gets filters and Internet-"light" as to not run afoul of copyrights.
      In the US it's more driven by private companies that separate between what they deem acceptable and what not.

      We had a good run.

    2. Re:With or without China's urging... by lgw · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The Internet, as we know it today, will be a relic in 20 years.

      That will obviously be true regardless. However, I think the early internet will resurface and some censorship-free platform, at least in countries that don't just ban all encrypted packets not to a whitelisted endpoint. Perhaps something like a v2 of Freenet, with its technical problems addressed. Something with no servers to take down. Hiding from large governments is hard - impossible if they just effectively ban encryption - but we could at least be free from corporate oversight, on a platform optimized for privacy over business.

      For now people are happy with VPNs, but with the rise of corporate censorship and the ever-increasing political power of content distribution corporations, I don't think that's stable.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    3. Re:With or without China's urging... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      It'll happen. It's already happening. But it won't be a mass-access thing - it'll be something users need to actively seek out and educate themselves on in order to gain access. Almost all users will be happy to use FacebookNet, because it does what they want: They can do the social media thing, look things up, chat to friends, check the news, contact their bank, buy goods, etc. It'll just be the minority who want to sneak over to the bad side of town, into that lawless realm.

    4. Re:With or without China's urging... by 0111+1110 · · Score: 2

      Only VPNs that specialize in geo-unblocking are useful for this. Most VPNs are just too easy to detect and block. The VPN has to actually be willing to engage in a cat and mouse game which is no doubt expensive. I think it won't be too long before the arms race escalates enough that the sorts of servers most VPNs use now will be useless. Only genuine consumer ISP IP addresses will be accepted by the 1/3 of the internet that geoblocks. I can only hope that at least some VPNs will be able to make a deal with ISPs for some of their addresses so that VPN blocking tech truly won't be able to tell the difference.

      A lot of the internet is already off limits in many poor countries if you don't use a VPN. It has become common practice it seems to basically just whitelist rich North American and European and Asian countries and just geoblock everyone else. A truly sad turn of events. I just noticed that any web site that uses Amazon AWS requires a VPN for me to download from or browse and of course there is no warning message. It just fails silently.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
  2. This is stupid by Dan+East · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is just stupid. What does the speed of wireless networks have to do with ANY of the other aspects in the story at all? At 4G I am not bandwidth bound. I can stream video at a far higher resolution than needed for a 4" screen. It has no impact on shopping, messaging, banking, etc. Further, what does the network have to do with the apps that communicate over that network? We tried AOL once. It had everything this story talked about in one unified place and interface. It sucked. It went away because that's how our markets work. People use what they want to use, which is typically based on what gives them what they want and the way they want it.

    The fact that China will be producing networking 5G networking gear is... inconsequential. I'm sure there are many, many products created in China that are sold at tremendous volume that the West does not buy nor care to buy. No one here is going to buy 5G hardware with built in Chinese Government Approved and Controlled AI to restrict communication just because they make a lot of them or use them there.

    --
    Better known as 318230.
    1. Re:This is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No one here is going to buy 5G hardware with built in Chinese Government Approved and Controlled AI to restrict communication just because they make a lot of them or use them there.

      Yeah, instead we'll just buy United States Government approved and backdoored chips to execute US corporate AI that monitors and analyzes our thoughts and movements for the powers that be to utilize and profit from in any way they see fit.

      Seems like hardly any difference between the two, except the US govt can put you in jail or do other things to you that the Chinese gov't can't do without somehow getting you to visit China first.

    2. Re:This is stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      At least the US government is obligated to give you a trial before it ruins your life.

      No they don't, and in fact haven't since 9/11. You do know what indefinite detention is ? It isn't applied only for Guantanamo prisoners that are tortured.
      It is also applied to US citizens in the US mainland. People held in jail for several years without having their day on court. It happens to people all over the country. Even in liberal bastions like New York city.

    3. Re:This is stupid by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

      No one here is going to buy 5G hardware with built in Chinese Government Approved and Controlled AI to restrict communication just because they make a lot of them or use them there.

      Sure, no one here will but telecom companies that gets a deep discount (because it's subsidized) on the 5G hardware totally will. Do you really think businesses are above this?

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    4. Re:This is stupid by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They won't listen in the U.S. either. You won't be disappeared, but you will be pepper sprayed.

      But the point is if you are an American living in the U.S., a Chinese government back door and spying is less dangerous to you than a U.S. government back door and spying.

      The converse is also true.

  3. not designed for smartphones by Megane · · Score: 2

    Some websites still don't seem to be designed with smartphones in mind.

    #secondworldproblems

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  4. Not all the West... by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Maybe much of the West is a theocracy, but the U.S. government was explicitly designed with the concept of separation of church and state - we may be unique in that regard.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  5. buzzword compliant by bigdavex · · Score: 2

    Some Silicon Valley executives worry the divergence risks giving Chinese companies an advantage in new technologies such as artificial intelligence, partly because they face fewer restrictions over privacy and data protection.

    Umm, yeah, and block chain.

    --
    -Dave
  6. One app to rule them all? by hackertourist · · Score: 2

    No thanks! I don't want my banking app to do anything else!

    And websites designed "with smartphones in mind" tend to stink on a desktop. I really don't want my experience to be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator.

  7. Re:That's not at all the case by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The right wing is hardly religious at all any more.

    It's fascinating to observe the absolute and unmitigated bullshit you continue to post here.
    Good Job Ken, keep it up!

  8. Totalitarian Dictatorship by sycodon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    China is a Communist Totalitarian Dictatorship with a thin veneer of capitalism.

    Never forget that. Never be surprised at the atrocious things it does.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  9. Internet is not the only thing it wants to control by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Interesting
    All mosques must fly Chinese flag along with any religious flags they choose to fly. All imams must be approved by the government.

    All bishops in all churches must be state approved. Vatican is ok with this arrangement it seems

    All Buddhist monastery lamas must be state approved. It has disrupted the centuries old tradition of Panchan lama finding the reincarnation of the Dalai lama and Dalai lama finding the reincarnation of Panchan lama. The current Dalai lama is in exile. Old Panchan lama is dead, replaced by government approved lama. They did not permit current Dalai lamas emissaries into China looking for the reincarnate. So Chinese government will identify the next Dalai lama once the current one dies.

    Now, internet? Why would anyone think China will accept an international control of the internet?

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact