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Apple's Newest Macs Seem To Have a Serious Audio Bug (thurrott.com)
An anonymous reader writes: Apple's new Mac products might have a serious audio glitch for professional users. The company's newest Mac products with its T2 security chip suffer from a software-related bug that leads to issues with audio performance. The issue seemingly affects devices with the T2 chip -- that includes the iMac Pro, Mac Mini 2018, MacBook Air 2018, and MacBook Pro 2018. Although Apple's T2 chip is designed to offer improved security, it's affecting users in the pro audio industry.
As CDM reports, there is a bug in macOS that leads to dropouts and glitches in audio whenever a Mac automatically updates its system clock through the system time daemon. Users have been reporting the issue across a bunch of different pro audio forums for months, and it seems like the issue has never been acknowledged by Cupertino. The issue here is pretty simple to understand, as explained by a DJ software developer on Reddit: whenever the system time daemon automatically updates the system time, it somehow sends a 'pause-audio-engine' message to the kernel, leading to dropouts and glitches in audio.
As CDM reports, there is a bug in macOS that leads to dropouts and glitches in audio whenever a Mac automatically updates its system clock through the system time daemon. Users have been reporting the issue across a bunch of different pro audio forums for months, and it seems like the issue has never been acknowledged by Cupertino. The issue here is pretty simple to understand, as explained by a DJ software developer on Reddit: whenever the system time daemon automatically updates the system time, it somehow sends a 'pause-audio-engine' message to the kernel, leading to dropouts and glitches in audio.
T2 ....a sophisticated chip, that has come back though time to change the audio of several unlucky users!
We get all the reports of Apple bugs here but never Dell bugs?
Because the T2 chip blocks access to the internal SSD when the security level is set to off, making it impractical to install Linux or another OS when Apple starts supporting that laptop, that is a deal killer for me
Disclaimer: I could be wrong, but I've not found anything that states one can both turn security off, and install Linux on the internal SSD on a T2 equipped Mac. You can turn security off and use external flash drive media, but the internal drive is inaccessible. It would be nice if Apple allowed the SSD to work, and provided support for Microsoft compliant shims, so one could have Secure UEFI boot to RedHat, Ubuntu, or other operating systems and have some faith that the kernel hasn't been tampered with.
Between this, and the other Mac issues (keyboard, audio), looks like my next MacBook Pro may be a Dell Latitude model, which in some ways is a better MBP than a MBP, if only because it supports USB-C, and USB-A without needing a dock or dongles.
It's not a bug, it's a feature! Automatic digital watermarking for all your DRM pleasures.
This message paid for by Disney Corporation.
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Sent from my pink eye phone.
All systems have bugs. The difference with Apple is that generally, the bugs get fixed and the hardware gets supported. As much as you hate their prices and controlled environment, can you say the same of other hardware manufacturers?
This looks like a simple "bug" in their audio system. It's possible to speculate that the command might be sent intentionally as in updating the clock the audio system must be forced to re-sync in order to operate correctly. The fixes would then either involve providing an alternative sync method that would avoid drop-outs (an alternative clock source?) or some "real-time mode" that might disable the tweaks to the clock entirely.
Can it actually be fixed or not? This is obviously very bad design lacking foresight but it would interest me greatly to know whether this is merely an engineering (implementation) blunder or a design fault that can never be corrected.
... a long time ago.
They make consumer jewelry now.
It's not stupid, given the bigger target group (of morons).
It's just evil and harmful. (Because people are treated like morons *until they are*.)
The thing that I'm wondering: Arent their target group users sometimes thinking "I want to *make* something today!" or "I want my life to have a purpose... a point!".
Sure, consuming is fun and easy. Especially if you re being told what to want. But doesn't it get... you know... *boring*?
Pro audio users have been abandoning the Apple platforms for years. You'll still find some trust fund EDM kiddies who use it, but this is a sector I pay attention to and a lot of people who cut their pro audio teeth on Macs are now using Windows machines instead. Linux will eventually get there, but now it's mainly a platform that pro audio users run as an adjunct to a main Windows DAW.
You are welcome on my lawn.
The bug really sounds like the developers did not realize the difference between what POSIX calls CLOCK_REALTIME and CLOCK_MONOTONIC.
Remember, YOU are the enemy too!
Because the T2 chip blocks access to the internal SSD when the security level is set to off,
I thought you could disable secure boot on the Mac, which should let you install any OS you like on the internal SSD...
I fully admit I've not tried that though so it could be there's some other aspect to that I did not know about. But this article sure makes it look like that setting has the effect of letting you boot into Linux on a T2 Mac.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I'll be back!
Come to think of it Apple is just the type of company to create something like Skynet.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
You're just listening to it wrong.
What are they teaching kids in School!?! This is a pretty well known CS thing - There are different types of clock sources in a computer. They differ in whether they are atomic, their resolution, etc. NTP goes to pretty great lengths in making sure clock updates are done somewhat properly but if you're expecting a high resolution monotonic clock that never deviates with say power mode and suddenly the OS changes that well you're going to have a bad time. Doing it in audio is beyond stupid even for apple.
Fun fact: Everything from the scheduler to network state depends on micro sleeping. Especially at high resolution, a broken clock can destroy performance system wide. There are several utilities to measure clock related functions in Linux, one example is https://github.com/tycho/clockperf.git
Seems the summary is an attempt at finding how many different ways they could phrase the same information?
Windows has no true multichannel audio subsystem suitable for audio recording, so everyone uses ASIO, which is proprietary. Audio under windows could have better latency.
Linux has a good audio subsystem, JACK, but it's not standardized, and the kernel has to be completely recompiled for low-latency.
Macs have a good audio system, but they have no 5.1 ports on anything, and to read this article, they screwing things up.
Android doesn't have much of an audio system, and it frequently pauses, and so far, only Audio Evolution has done much with USB recording interfaces.
IOS can play with audio devices, but there's no removable media, and only a hint of the file access necessary for content creation.
Sigh.
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
In general, if you want to run a business (aka be a professional in the audio industry), then there's no way around it: Run a business-class OS such as Windows. However, it should be noted that the best pro-level audio software package, assuming we are talking about DAWs, is actually built for and runs on Linux: ardour. DAWs are one of the few areas that Linux desktop actually does surprisingly well.
Because Dell doesn't talk shit like "you're holding it wrong"
No instead they have Michael Dell saying shit about Apple like "I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders" which turned out to be remarkably arrogant and increasingly foolish since he said it.
and because Dell hasn't tried to build a reputation as making computers which are easier to use than everyone else's.
Because they couldn't. Dell doesn't make the software that runs their PCs so they don't control enough of the process to even try. Apple more or less succeeded in doing that exact thing. Several times in fact with various iterations of MacOS and iOS. There is a reason Windows mimicked the Mac and Android followed the iPhone. Like them or hate them you cannot deny that Apple does do a good job making comparatively well designed and easy to use interfaces to their products. There is a reason every other PC and smartphone maker follows Apple's lead at least some of the time.
Also, because Dell seems to have less gigantic fuckups than Apple, per unit shipped.
Not historically they haven't. Dell's hardware is fine in general but they've had plenty of problems over the years. Measurably more than Apple most years if you believe the PC reliability rankings over the years. I'm not bashing Dell here (in fact I'm typing this on one of their PCs which I purchased with my own money) but let's not pretend they are something special among big computer makers.
We at Apple don't care about professional users. Next question please.
Under Tim Cook the Mac “Pro” line doesn’t mean Professional anymore.
It now means “look at me I’m doing ‘work’” for those trust fund kids in Starbucks posting to Tumbr.
Once upon a time, there was only one platform that you used for Pro-Audio or video post production. Apple already moved the entire industry to Avid with their Final Cut Fiasco. Considering that so-called system stability was about the only remaining reason to use an Apple vs. a Windows machine for Audio production (not that I've had a "click" from an ASIO device since 2009), this seems like yet another boneheaded move from the company that appears to think that they'll be selling iPhones forever.
Just a correction: you don't run Windows, you suffer Windows because it has all the good desktop software.
I wonder if the Windows telemetry/monitoring/voice recognition/fancy GUI bullshit has a noticeable overhead...
I was just going to say that.
Not computers
They don't scale and def don't sound melodic, lyrical or real. Just try bells on a laptop then plug into FOH system. You'll understand dynamics in an instant.
...iToddlers will defend this.
Here at Apple, we care very deeply about your privacy, security, and overall experience with our products. Rest assured, we understand the pain and trouble this audio issue may be causing you. We've got our top men working on this problem and will have a solution soon. Very soon. Top men working on it day and night.
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Sent from my black eye phone.
Eh, it is exactly the opposite of that. Apple is guaranteed to fix only high-profile bugs and will try to screw you out of support. I've been using Macs at work for a bit over a decade and the examples are too numerous to list, but I'll give some characteristic examples:
- iPhone 4/4s had a thermal sensor in the wireless module that had a very high failure rate after the first year. The firmware that enabled it came as an update for the iPhone 4, people who never updated did not have an issue, but a good percentage of the rest of the iPhone 4/4s users ended up with "wifi grayed-out", which Apple would not fix out of warranty (they would tell you to reset network settings like it would help), that could be temporarily fixed by a thermal shock (putting the phone in the freezer and the oven). My development iPhone 4 developed the issue, and so did its 3 replacements (only 1 within warranty).
- My bosses 6-month old mac mini was killing USB devices and the "genius" bar invalidated the warranty claiming they found "dust" inside (! - this was in a smoke-free cat-free office!). Boss was an apple fan and did not believe me when I said they can't do that, so took them on the 10% off a new mac mini offer...
- Severe bug when moving windows on a secondary portrait monitor that survived 3 major OS X upgrades with ever-increasing report threads on Apple forums. In general, every one of the last major OS X releases since about Leopard feels a bit more buggy than the previous.
Sure, overall it is a nice unix-based OS with a decent UI, but with the money they make I can't believe how little they care about their customers. Oh, wait, the money they make despite how they treat their customers, explains in itself why the go down this route...
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
This sounds familiar. Some time around OSX 10.9, Apple introduced a bug that would cause USB audio devices to temporarily glitch and drop out. This caused a scramble in the professional audio community with users reverting to 10.8. It seemed no DJ software with an external sound card was safe from the issue. It took Apple until 10.11.2 to fix the issue. My DJ laptops remain on 10.8 because I cannot trust Apple not to break the system, pretend there's no bug, and not fix it for years.
Shoot I was hoping why the bluetooth starts cutting out randomly and with loud pops after the laptop comes back from suspension.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
It's biometric credentials stored in the refrigerator that should give you the heebie-jeebies.
"So, I need the owner's finger to unlock this?" [gets out knife]
"So, I need the owner's face to unlock this?" [gets out bigger knife]
"So, the owner has to be alive?" [gets out bottle of chloroform and a washcloth] and [hey Larry, you still have that pipe wrench?] and of course [that's a nice /noun/ you have there... be a shame if something happened to /pronoun/.]
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
FTFY
But not to worry. They stopped using it.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Although not as irritating, I really see Tim Cook as Apple's Steve Ballmer... Business and supply chain focused, but actually crap at design and strategic direction and inspiring customers... Apple just needs to find it's Satya Nadella.
They removed the audio jack. No, I don't read the TFSs.
7 pound laptop? Are you from 2005?
please stop calling it a security chip.
the only thing it secures is a bunch of benefits for Apple, not for the user.
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.