Anti-Cheat Software Causing Big Problems For Windows 10 Previews (arstechnica.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: The Windows 10 Insider Preview Slow Ring -- the beta track that's meant to receive only those builds that are free from any known serious problems -- hasn't received an update for months. While the fast ring is currently testing previews of the April 2019 release, codenamed 19H1, and the even-faster skip-ahead ring is testing previews not of the October 2019 release, 19H2, but of the April 2020 release, 20H1, the Slow Ring is yet to receive a single 19H1 build. This has prompted some concern among insiders that perhaps the ring has been forgotten about, and it has even caused a few complaints from companies that are using the Windows Insider for Business program to validate new Windows releases before their launch. Without Slow Ring builds to test, there's nothing to validate, meaning that they'll have to delay deployment of 19H1 once it ships.

Microsoft's Dona Sarkar, chief of the Windows Insider program, explained yesterday what the problem is, and in many ways it's a throwback to Windows' past, before the days of DEP and ASLR and PatchGuard and all the other measures Microsoft has implemented to harden Windows against malicious software: the build is crashing when some unspecified common anti-cheat software is used. Sarkar's tweet says that the software causes a GSOD, for Green Screen of Death; the traditional and disappointingly familiar Blue Screen of Death, denoting that Windows has suffered a fatal error, is colored green for preview releases so they can be distinguished at a glance from crashes of stable builds. Fast ring builds have the same GSOD issue, and indeed, it has been listed on their known issues list for many months. Sarkar says that the fix must come from the third-party company that developed the anti-cheat software. In an update, Ars Technica's Peter Bright says Microsoft has pushed a build to the Slow Ring, number 18342.8, but the GSOD issue remains. "To avoid crashing machines, the build won't be offered to any system that has the offending anti-cheat software installed," Bright writes. "It's not clear why this approach could not have been used months ago."

Comments

Sounds like you should break the anti-cheat

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does what amounts to spyware get preferential treatment?

Re:Sounds like you should break the anti-cheat

[tlhIngan]

Why does what amounts to spyware get preferential treatment?

Because cheating is rampant in online games, and anti-cheats are needed to even have a modicum of fair play online. Unless you're one to believe the only way to play online is consoles only and basically the PC should be discarded as a gaming device.

The solution to this is simple: games shouldn't be loading their own kernel drivers.

Sadly cheats are generally programs that either run the target game in debug mode (with the cheat as the debugger) and thus undetectable to the game, or as a separate executable and hijack network traffic. Kernel drivers are required to break these kind of things.

And for what it's worth, the anti cheat software in question is used by Fortnite, among other games. That's kind of why it's a big deal.

And cheating is so rampant online among PC users that an aspect of PC gaming would be destroyed without anti-cheat software letting people play legitimately. Maybe PC users don't care, but it would be pretty sad if the only way to play online was to pay for Playstation Plus or Xbox Live Gold.

Re:Sounds like you should break the anti-cheat

[scdeimos]

Kernel drivers are required to break these kind of things.

And kernel drivers have to be signed. Microsoft should just blacklist drivers signed by the anti-cheat software developer's key until they can get their shit together.

Re:Sounds like you should break the anti-cheat

[tlhIngan]

Funny, can't find anyone hacking in oldskool Doom online. Not that you need to with the weapons available now days thanks to a still-living mod community.

Maybe the coders of these other games should #learntocode. We got it right in our little community (made up now almost entirely of hackers of some level,) why the fuck can't they get it right in theirs?

Because no one plays oldskool Doom anymore? I'm sure once you add in about a million players, you'll start to see online cheating. And just so you know, there was cheating in Quake back in the day too. From people replacing everyone else's skins with ones that basically glowed, to infamous "cheating drivers" that let you turn walls translucent amongst other things. (And the cheating drivers brought the question to the forefront back in the day - I believe it was a big graphics card maker like Asus or someone similar who released modified drivers with those capabilities).

But unless you have over 100 friends, games like Fortnite require everyone to be on the up and up and there's no way you can do 100 person battle royale if the servers calculated everything - the latency issues would just add up so no one would have a good time. There's a reason why games went from mere 8 player multiplayer (where servers could easily do it all) to 16 or 32 player free for alls, with 100 player gatherings rather supreme.

I don't think your Doom netcode would survive in today's environment - if it got even a bit popular there would be rampant cheating.

And yes, Fortnite is a big deal. Though I'm surprised as to how long it's taken - usually for something this big and important Microsoft gets everyone together in a room to figure it out. Microsoft gets Epic involved who gets the anti-cheat engineers and in a week they figure out the problem. Considering the money on the line, someone's dropping the ball.

Games shouldn't be loading kernel drivers

[Myria]

The solution to this is simple: games shouldn't be loading their own kernel drivers.

Re:Games shouldn't be loading kernel drivers

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Don't trust the client

A single simple rule that you should have learned in computer science / software engineering classes.
You assume that the client (btw that actually include the anti-cheat software, which is why you shouldn't need it) is compromised. So you make sure that the server does not send more information than is needed, and the server expect any data from the client to be suspect.

Now I do understand the need for latency, and why the client needs to send dead-reconing information (including coordinates) to the server. But the server can check if those coordinates are physically possible compared to the previous set of coordinates.

Points, loot, hit check, bullet trajectories, line-of-sight, must be done by the server.

Re:Games shouldn't be loading kernel drivers

[Luckyo]

You're either someone who is into cheating, developer of cheat engines, or utterly ignorant of how cheating in PC multiplayer games commonly works.

Or you're an absolute guru in the field, and can code a solution that works and doesn't require it. In which case, I have a question. Why are you posting here instead of picking up that easy ten to eleven digit pay-off?

Re:Games shouldn't be loading kernel drivers

[Anonymous Coward]

What is with the inquisitorial attitude?

Either you are for burning witches or you are a witch yourself.

Come off it.

And nobody is making "ten to eleven digit pay-off[s]" in anti-cheat software. The whole damn field is a cancer. Calculate on serverside. Don't be cheap and rely on client software. Done. That's your anti-cheat.

DRM, anti cheat , telemetry

[Anonymous Coward]

Three sides of the same coin.

GSOD

[SurenEnfiajyan]

At least it doesn't give BSOD.

Re:GSOD

[rsilvergun]

I'm color blind, you insensitive clod!

Windows 10 has so many issues with updates

[AbRASiON]

I'd prefer an ultra Ultra slow and very stable tested train of updates.

You know maybe even give it a name, a more simplified ui, call it something like windows 7 or something like that.

Re:Windows 10 has so many issues with updates

[Anonymous Coward]

For me personally, windows 10 is just too damn much. I put up with windows 7, but now that it is at end of life, I am not making the jump to 10.

I have played with Linux before, several years ago, but the issues were enough that I stayed with windows. Now, I am ready to jump in with both feet.

Microsoft has pushed me too far.

Re:Windows 10 has so many issues with updates

[Shikaku]

Go ahead and make the jump. https://www.protondb.com/ Proton is Steam's built in Wine, and it handles everything for you. Another list with supported games straight from the Steam store: https://store.steampowered.com...

Because cheaters ruin games

[rsilvergun]

go play the original COD Modern Warfare, Not even sure if you can actually, but last I heard (2014...ish?) it was less a game and more an exercise in how far you could push online cheat engines. There were accusations that Activision ignored the cheaters so people would move on to the current release (now with more Microtransactions(c) ).

if i could all my games to work on non-windows

[lamer01]

I would jump ship off win 10 so fast. It has to be the worst OS since Vista. I mean if it were a pure OS it would be great as it does some things really well. But since MSFT decided that windows won't be just an OS anymore it tries to do things it should not do. I don't need my OS to spy on me or update at inopportune times.

Ah, I see...

[Anonymous Coward]

>_ the traditional and disappointingly familiar Blue Screen of Death, denoting that Windows has suffered a fatal error, is colored green for preview releases so they can be distinguished at a glance from crashes of stable builds.

That's how you know you're using Windows' stable version...

Re:Part of the plan to lock out steam and others!

[Voyager529]

I think the difference between the MS whose battle cry was 'Windows ain't done til Lotus won't run' and the MS of today is that there actually is that they don't corner the market on bigger lawyer diplomacy anymore.

If MS wanted to muscle in and make the PC a gaming platform where they got more revenue, all they have to do is finalize the components that make it possible to play Xbox games on a Win10 computer. Done and done. They don't *have* to disadvantage anyone else; once that's in place, Xbox games become PC games where they get a greater cut because the developer still has to pay Xbox licensing, along with XBL subscriptions for PC users.

On the flip side, breaking third party game stores will rile up other evil lawyers - EA and Activision both have one, and it's basically impossible for me to believe that these companies will pass up an opportunity to sue Microsoft for making their products unusable. I can't imagine MS wanting to invoke the wrath of either of them; there's far more money to lose in a lawsuit (even if they win) than they'll gain in sales.

It's a sad day when my faith in EA and Activision's evilness are my source of optimism.