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Prominent New Yorkers Are Trying To Get Amazon To Bring Back HQ2 (cnet.com)
The New York Times reported Thursday that an open letter will be published in the Times on Friday that asks Amazon to reconsider its decision to walk away from its plan to build a 25,000-employee campus in Long Island City, Queens. The company pulled the plug on the project, dubbed HQ2, following vocal and persistent opposition to the plan after it was announced three months ago. CNET reports: The letter was signed by the CEOs of Mastercard, Warby Parker, Goldman Sachs, Tishman Speyer and Jetblue, among others. The presidents of the Building & Construction Trades Council of Greater New York and state AFL-CIO, which were expecting thousands of construction jobs to come from the project, also signed, as did U.S. Reps. Hakeem Jeffries and Carolyn Maloney. "We know the public debate that followed the announcement of the Long Island City project was rough and not very welcoming," the letter stated. "Opinions are strong in New York -- sometimes strident. We consider it part of the New York charm! But when we commit to a project as important as this, we figure out how to get it done in a way that works for everyone."
New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo has also had several conversations with Amazon, including CEO Jeff Bezos, about bringing back the project, the Times said. The letter and Cuomo's behind-the-scenes efforts are part of the latest fallout since Amazon abandoned HQ2 in New York. The opposition has celebrated the exit as a victory for grassroots campaigns and a stand against lavish government incentives for new development plans. Amazon was slated to get about $3 billion in tax breaks for building the project. Supporters, who weren't as vocal during the run-up to Amazon leaving, expressed shock and consternation about Amazon's decision and worried that New York would appear unfriendly to new businesses. While the business community was broadly seen as in favor of the project, the letter shows how both the camps supporting and opposing HQ2 included unions and Democratic U.S. congress members.
New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo has also had several conversations with Amazon, including CEO Jeff Bezos, about bringing back the project, the Times said. The letter and Cuomo's behind-the-scenes efforts are part of the latest fallout since Amazon abandoned HQ2 in New York. The opposition has celebrated the exit as a victory for grassroots campaigns and a stand against lavish government incentives for new development plans. Amazon was slated to get about $3 billion in tax breaks for building the project. Supporters, who weren't as vocal during the run-up to Amazon leaving, expressed shock and consternation about Amazon's decision and worried that New York would appear unfriendly to new businesses. While the business community was broadly seen as in favor of the project, the letter shows how both the camps supporting and opposing HQ2 included unions and Democratic U.S. congress members.
I am a prominent New Yorker, and I want these imbeciles to stay away from New York
They have the right to locate their business in NYC on the same terms as any other company: Unsubsidized and paying their fair share of taxes.
They were going to pay $27 billion instead of $30 billion.
Now they will pay $0 billion.
You fucking moron.
That location is too unstable and the cost of doing business is too stupid.
Get rid of occasional cortex and amazon might think about it again.
They were going to pay $27 billion instead of $30 billion. Now they will pay $0 billion.
Good. Now the land and labor is available to businesses willing to operate with subsidies.
Instead of a $3B giveaway to one business, NYC should be spending the money to improve their infrastructure, and remove the bureaucratic barriers to commerce. That will help all businesses in the city, rather than just one.
Is there any evidence that any of these big subsidy deals to bring companies, sport franchises, etc have ever worked out to the benefit of the population of the municipality?
You are welcome on my lawn.
Are you Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in disguise? $3B in tax incentives is not the same thing as a $3B tax credit. There's a huge difference between writing a $3B check and not sending a $3B invoice in the first place. In one case you're spending money, in the other you're just not getting the money to spend. See, the $3B invoice you don't send still nets you $27B in paid invoices, so you end up with a huge net positive. It's no different than a 10% discount for a big customer that gives you lots of bulk work. You can't spend the discounted money because you don't fucking have the money in the first place.
I swear to dog, anyone who thinks that the money "lost" in a discount "can be spent on something else" needs a severe beating with a clue-by-four.
they just have to pay their taxes, same as everybody else. Also, they're not going to be getting that helipad or the $500 million in grants. Anymore than I would if I was setting up shop there.
No more economic terrorism. No more race to the bottom. Time to stop letting these companies bully us. We're the God Damned US of A. We're better than that.
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Amazon is already decreasing its footprint in Seattle, even after the City repealed certain taxes in negotiations to their benefit. Theyâ(TM)re an awful player in any community, as is any company refusing to pay their fair share in taxes.
Are you Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in disguise?
AOC would not be advocating for less bureaucracy.
In one case you're spending money, in the other you're just not getting the money to spend.
People that believe this should not have credit cards.
See, the $3B invoice you don't send still nets you $27B in paid invoices, so you end up with a huge net positive.
No you don't. Those 25,000 highly skilled workers are not going to sit at home unemployed. NYC has record low unemployment. They are going to work for other companies that will pay the full $30B in taxes.
No, it's New York. The city where mafia doesn't really do the standard violence racketeering, but the regulations racketeering. Not "it would be a shame if something happened to your business" but "it would be a shame if city [x] inspector was to visit you and be really thorough".
That part of New York is so legendary among people doing business, that it's known even far abroad.
Do you know why they paid $0 in Federal income taxes? It's because they spent a lot on R&D and took full depreciation in one year, and the company gave over $1 billion in stock to employees. I guess it's better to not give billions to the employees, and instead give it to Congress in DC to spend how they want. Don't reward those who built the company, give it to the Government instead.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Amazon paid $0 in FEDERAL taxes. They pay hundreds of millions to Washington State in state taxes every year. The NY state and local tax revenue to be paid by Amazon was estimated to be in the BILLIONS, that's why most Democrats in the state made the deal to bring them there in the first place.
"NYC should be spending the money to improve their infrastructure ..."
WHAT money? NYC doesn't have $3billion sitting in an account that they can spend on something else now. Do you get that? It was a tax break -- not money they were going to hand over to Amazon.
Another company is not going to swoop into that area and pay 45,000 people $150k.
Who cares? Companies like Google, Apple, HMOs, etc. still plan on paying thousands of *qualified* employees $150K, and they were still going to pay taxes needed to support infrastructure like subways and roads.
Amazon wasn't going to move 45K tech employees to NYC, and then add 45K*$150K per year. They were going to poach the pool of *qualified* employees already working here, and hopefully the more competitive employer market would attract more qualified tech employees to move to NYC.
I didn't have a problem with subsidizing $3 billion of tax rebates to Amazon, or fucking over the unions and local politicians. Attracting a relatively large company such as Amazon is a way to perk up the employment market, and the $3 billion were more like subsidizing its startup costs. But lets not pretend that Amazon was going produce a huge new base of taxpayers for NYC.
NY taxpayers shouldn't be fleeced the way Wisconsin got fleeced by Foxconn. Fuck Amazon and its "give me a handout if you want me to make your employment pool more competitive". And FUAC for pretending to create jobs for NYC while putting NYers deeper in debt with corporate handouts, which we will then be expected to give out to every corporation!!!
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
Maybe Amazon had their fill of this New York charm they speak of. Why would any company want to establish an HQ somewhere where they'll be constantly attacked, be it by a vocal minority who would rather be uneducated and unemployed than have someone make money on their work. Too many negative sensational headlines and people who don't read past the headline. In the today's age of social outrage, the negative publicity is not worth it for a global company. They'd rather stay out of the headlines and continue to sell to New Yorkers as customers.
Have you never heard of an opportunity cost?
What does that have to do with people talking about spending money that doesn't exist? I'm complaining about people talking about how "that money could be spent on better things" when the money in question is non-existent. I'm not going to pretend to be a hot-shot economist, but anyone who has an understanding of how invoices and payments work can see that a discount on an invoice isn't spendable money whether you send the discounted invoice or don't send an invoice at all. Opportunity cost has nothing to do with that particular complaint.
No need to meet with and acquiesce to workers demands.
No having to meet community leaders.
No demands to hire random people from the local area.
Better parts of the USA exist without the demands.
Shop around and find a great state.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Your link says: "Opportunity costs represent the benefits an individual, investor or business misses out on when choosing one alternative over another." The burden of proof that a better alternative exists is on you. List the businesses that are lining up to come to New York that'll a bring better deal in aggregate than Amazon was going to bring to the table. You're the second person now to show up and spout "muh opportunity cost" with nothing to show for it. Opportunity cost doesn't matter if there is no other opportunity to consider. With zero evidence presented that Amazon would have killed off other opportunities that have greater overall value, it seems that you're the armchair economist here. Perhaps you could try harder and actually enlighten us plebs instead of linking to Investopedia and expecting everyone to think you're smart because of it.
On top of your failure to provide any evidence to back your assertions of an opportunity cost mattering, you also fail to understand that you can't "commit" $3B that you don't have in the first place. For someone who is so authoritative in their tone, you sure don't seem to understand that you can't spent money you don't even have. Not sending a bill is different from giving away money. You'll find that out when you don't have anyone to send a bill to. In the absence of proof of a better set of investments (you know...that thing you didn't provide) it all falls back on a very simple concept that anyone with half a brain can understand: "something" is greater than "nothing." Oh, and unrealized hypothetical possibilities don't pay the bills either.
What alternative investment opportunities would be lost if Amazon HQ2 comes to New York that exceed the value brought by Amazon HQ2? Provide verifiable sources. We'll wait.
... when you demonize people and drive them away, they leave.
They were going to pay $27 billion instead of $30 billion.
Now they will pay $0 billion.
And while Amazon is busy not paying $27 billion, other companies are free to move in, use that land and those people, and pay $30 billion.
Oh, wait, they're not doing that because it's too expensive and difficult to move a business to Queens? Huh. Perhaps someone ought to fix that general problem instead of giving Amazon a special break because they're a large visible deal instead of many small, invisible deals.
(Disclosure: I don't live in Queens, I never have, and how NYC wants to structure their taxes is none of my business. Go ahead and make it difficult, that's good for me personally.)
I'm not for giveaways to corporations but many landlords give "breaks" to entice new customers.
Let's look at what NYC was giving away - 3 billion dollars
What were they gaining- 20,000 jobs averaging 125,000 / year.
The total amount of new income in the city would be 20,000 x 125,000 = 2.5 billion (per year)
NYC would charge 3% income tax on this income which is 75,000,000 per year.
So. Just talking about income tax it would take the city 33 years to break even.
That's not good.
But the state also collects over 6 percent. So that brings it down to 11 years. (It's not truly even as that tax money goes to the state but the state funds a lot of NYC projects so it does count some.)
And finally - those people making 120K plus will be paying sales tax (8.875%) on all purchases except for food and rent. If they buy a condo they pay tax and transfer fees. And their increased spending will mean other jobs, and other income taxes that the city could collect.
So yeah. There's a good case to be made for spending 3 billion in order to get the Amazon jobs.
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
New Yorkers do not want to give up on...
A clear majority of New Yorkers support this project...
Looking at the signatories of the open letter, I can’t help getting the feeling that what they meant by “New Yorkers” is, rather, “New Yorkers that matter”. You know, the ones who own stuff like real estate and businesses.