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The World is Losing Fish to Eat as Oceans Warm, Study Finds (nytimes.com)
Fish populations are declining as oceans warm, putting a key source of food and income at risk for millions of people around the world, according to research published last week. From a report: The study found that the amount of seafood that humans could sustainably harvest from a wide range of species shrank by 4.1 percent from 1930 to 2010, a casualty of human-caused climate change. "That 4 percent decline sounds small, but it's 1.4 million metric tons of fish from 1930 to 2010," said Chris Free, the lead author of the study, which appears in the journal Science. Scientists have warned that global warming will put pressure on the world's food supplies in coming decades. But the new findings -- which separate the effects of warming waters from other factors, like overfishing -- suggest that climate change is already having a serious impact on seafood.
[...] As the oceans have warmed, some regions have been particularly hard-hit. In the northeast Atlantic Ocean and the Sea of Japan, fish populations declined by as much as 35 percent over the period of the study. "The ecosystems in East Asia have seen some of the largest decline in fisheries productivity," Dr. Free said. "And that region is home to some of the largest growing human populations and populations that are highly dependent on seafood."
[...] As the oceans have warmed, some regions have been particularly hard-hit. In the northeast Atlantic Ocean and the Sea of Japan, fish populations declined by as much as 35 percent over the period of the study. "The ecosystems in East Asia have seen some of the largest decline in fisheries productivity," Dr. Free said. "And that region is home to some of the largest growing human populations and populations that are highly dependent on seafood."
just to be fish, for their own sake.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
It's time for everybody to convert to terrestavores, the people who eat only land based organisms.
I'll be dead before it gets prohibitively bad
--- Baby Boomers
... we should've just fished the oceans empty 'cuz they'll be empty anyhow? Is that it?
"We used temperature-dependent population models to measure the influence of warming on the productivity of 235 populations of 124 species in 38 ecoregions."
My Model, that I wrote in Python all by myself, says we have no more fish.
No SUSHI FOR YOU!
another climatedot article sponsored by the IPCC
enjoy your hockey stick graphs
Soylent Green mmmm
Yep, it's all climate change. Decades of documented overfishing and thousands of studies that correctly connect overfishing with declining fish populations are completely meaningless now.
Something is fishy with this study.... Just say'n....
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
So long and thanks for all the fish... what else can we say as we head into space...
[($)]
I guess that 97% can hold just about any idea, so long as it supports the narrative.
just to be polio viruses, for their own sake.
Sake?! Yes please!
Turns out there was a major problem with the study it said it was.
Also the ocean temperature drops rapidly as you go lower, the ocean temperature just a few feet down is not going to be changing much at all. Lots of fish spend most time below the very top layer.
The decline in fish populations is more likely a result of overfishing, something we should be working against - but thankfully there are quite a lot of fish farms these days, so the supply of fish for the world to eat is not as threatened as the summary makes it out to be.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Correlation does not imply causation except for when it does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
https://xkcd.com/1138/
East Asia over fishes but it's attributed to global warming because narrative.
""The ecosystems in East Asia have seen some of the largest decline in fisheries productivity," Dr. Free said. "And that region is home to some of the largest growing human populations and populations that are highly dependent on seafood."
Sounds like a natural correction cycle.
Which part of the headline is the observation and which part is the concept? Observation ("losing fish...") vs Concept ("as oceans warm") http://bit.ly/1lM3PFS
"Tempers are wearing thin. Let's just hope some robot doesn't kill everybody." --Bender
I blame the dolphins.
This study has a lot of issues. Now I'm not saying we watch what is going on with the ocean and the fish. I am saying there might be some difference in technology from 1930 till now. So there might be some issues with the stat this entire study is based.
Also, just to blame all this on oceans warming is really irresponsible. Gee there couldn't be any other factors, like how much we fish, pollutants, etc.
But, if you put that in your paper, then you will get more funding. Follow the dirty money...
Apparent they never heard of the "miracle of the five loaves and two fish".
Plus I'm not a big fish eater (fish sticks maybe once every few years), so for anyone who likes fish you can have mine.
Too bad the oceans and streams are the only source of fish to consume, I just wish there was some way to create fish populations on land...
I wonder, did the "scientists" of the day blame the steam locomotive for the precipitous decline in free-range buffalo, forcing countless millions to starve?
Ken
Oh,you believe in Aquaculture?
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.
Not to mention we can switch to eating invasive species like Lionfish that there are plenty of.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
At last check... East Asia includes China, which is a major contributor to global warming... check mate denier!
Unrelated, I stubbed my toe getting out of bed this morning... I've also chosen to blame climate change for it.
more global warming propaganda. these articles are getting more far out there that we're not buying them anymore.
For this reason, God sends them a powerful delusion(operation of wandering)(planet) so that they will believe the lie.
Mystery Red of the Great American Eclipse
It has blood on it!
ABCNews: Eclipse makes pendulum wander
Sun researchers find strange eclipse reading
Um... I suggest you read the referenced article because they claim to have corrected their number to isolate the effects of over fishing and water temperature.
That on the face of it should raise red flags. It's not like we have highly accurate data on just about anything related to the ocean going back very far at all, and they claim they have separated out the effects of an unknown amount of warming from an equally unknown amount of overfishing? Yeahhhhh I'm going to need them to work over the weekend on that one.
Sorry but I call bullshit on the whole facade. The only thing of value is studying how different fish populations react to actual warming, but then what do you do with that info when you have no way to really know at the moment if the oceans will warm appreciably at all (and that is even if the climate warms much at all which is also not really a known factor)?
This almost could be construed as an attempt to white-wash over serious overfishing issues that industry and governments are loathe to acknowledge. If you read fishing stories from the 40's-50's set in Florida, you know there were massive populations of huge tuna (each one a ton or more) just sailing around, and a lot of other abundant fish that you can't find much of anymore. None of that was affected by the ocean being 0.00001 degrees warmer on the first foot of the ocean surface...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
to mod up your own posts?
That IS informative.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
The problem is not that there are not enough fish, just that we are losing the top of food chain fish people prefer, while not eating the smaller fish that people don't prefer that live at the bottom of the food chain.
Imagine a Christmas Tree of Fish (or Festal Fish Fellowship):
1 salmon or red snapper
consumes
10 upper mid range fish
consumes
100 mid range fish
consumes
1000 lower mid range fish
consumes
10000 lower range fish.
To solve this problem, you need to stop setting up fish farms for the top 3 levels of fish, which to get 1 L1 and 1 L2 and 1 L3 you need 1110 L4 and 11100 L5, and consume the bottom two levels. This has net positive benefits in that heavy metal and pesticide concentrations also drop. Or you can stop consuming fish and replace them with carbon negative shellfish (not shrimp, sadly, they are net carbon emission increasing) like oysters, clams, and mussels, grown amidst breaker seaweed and breaker seagrass, sucking out carbon from the cycle. The shells of these can then be used to replace many components in concrete, reducing the impact of building. Think of the long surviving concrete from 4000 years ago, which uses this for it's material instead of modern concrete which doesn't survive as long.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
planting flags in space objects
Isn't the Eath a "space object"?
Nice try but your last link was already debunked.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
So you think this study doesn't also include and account for overfishing in addition to the climate changing and changing fish patterns? Or are you just dumb for asserting that they didn't without reading it?
I was just at Walmart and the fish selection is as varied and inexpensive as ever. If there was any kind of market problem they would cost more and be less avalable.
Because nobody said otherwise, your reply is either confused or a straw man.
Stop, enough. it's not about Climate Change, it's about overfishing and using fishing technologies that destroy habitat. We've known about this for decades and yet we still bottom dragging net catches and huge factory ships to overtax the eco system. Species are being wiped out because of their desirability and now sadly, rarity. This has nothing to do with fucking climate hoax and has everything to do with greed and too many people.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
The Pacific has just now started COOLING from the onset of the little ice age in the 14th century.
Saying that the top few feet of ocean warming isn't going to dramatically effect the rest of the ocean is silly. Of course its going to effect it. The ocean is Earth's largest and most complicated ecosystem. Humans don't even understand all of it yet. But we do know that all of the layers of the ocean interact in some way. The top of the ocean is where all of the sunlight energy enters into the entire system. Of course a changing temperature in the top layers is going to effect the rest of the ocean.
I don't respond to AC's.
like Maine & Florida that are predominately red states and vote for climate change deniers getting hit by it. Florida is getting wrecked by hurricanes that are pretty clearly due to the changes. Maine's lobsters are migrating North to Canada and eventually that industry (and all the tourism that goes with it) will be gone. The folks there must know this, but they vote folks in who actively do nothing.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Saying that the top few feet of ocean warming isn't going to dramatically effect the rest of the ocean is silly. Of course its going to effect it.
Not really.
In these waters, surface water temperatures are about -1.9ÂC, the normal salinity of the water keeping it from freezing into ice. The deep waters, being warmer than such surface waters, rise to the surface, as the upper layers sink slowly into the dark ocean depths. Because only very cold surface water is able to sink, it is simple to understand that the deep ocean can never warm up, regardless of how warm the surface ocean around the world may become. No deep lying âoethermal lagâ is going to take place. It is clear that thereâ(TM)ll be no Phoenix rising as a haunting specter.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Anonymous Cow says:
Eat mor chiken!
Science constantly finds truths about the world which are denied by political correctness. That's because political correctness is a lying religion, like all lying religions.
With fewer fish displacing water in the oceans, won't this help the the water retreat to non-threatening levels?
Sorry, nobody believes a word you say. You're a known lying faggot for years here. Everyone knows you're a denialist faggot, not a science-anything you unemployed Colorado incel loser lol.
"But the new findings -- which separate the effects of warming waters from other factors, like overfishing..."
Our model knows more than your reality.
Of more interest is whether over fished stocks would be in (as much) trouble if not over fished.
I eat cow.
"Crime is down in NY city as the oceans warm"
"Age expectancy continues to rise as the oceans warm"
"Sales of electric cars are on the increase as the oceans warm"
"Google is now paying women more than men as the oceans warm"
"SpaceX just successfully docked their first Crew Dragon to the ISS as oceans warm"
I think you get the point, unless you really are stupid enough to think that slightly warming oceans are what has been causing overfishing for the past several decades.
Or, alternatively, the world could be losing fish to eat because we're eating them.
"And that region is home to some of the largest growing human populations and populations that are highly dependent on seafood."
- Tjp
I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!
Humans can't swim in the oceans sufficiently well to catch fish, so humans aren't supposed to eat fish, as simple as that.
You can't have 9 BILLION large omnivores on planet Earth, it's as simple as that. Humans are non-vegan because somebody else told them to do it, not because we're 'supposed to' eat animal products.
It's nothing to do with 'catastrophic man-made global warming', it's because people shouldn't be eating fish. But who cares about the suffering of others? Certainly not most people.
The World is Losing wildlife to run over on the road as Oceans Warm, Study Finds.
We could blame anything and everything on climate change. Maybe wildlife has become smarter in their ability to avoid cars. Maybe fish have become smarter in avoiding nets or just decided to swim elsewhere.
hahahahahahaha.
Right away I noticed this report talking about a decline in certain species yet generalized it to a risk for seafood dependent diets so I figured I should look to see which species are winning in the new environment.
According to this Science magazine article, the changing temperatures and increasing acidity of oceans is a boon for Octopus, squid, and cuttlefish.
https://www.sciencemag.org/new...
While I believe wee may see increased prices and decreased consumption of certain species, I am certain other to-be-determined species will thrive in the changed environments as well, and that like Octopus, squid, and cuttlefish, we will find them both delicious and nutritious.
I'll just leave this here https://marine.rutgers.edu/~cfree/funding/
If you'll notice he and those funding him are not neutral in the debate, and the agenda is pretty clear.
Our model knows more than your reality.
The image of the world around us, which we carry in our head, is just a model. These folks have applied some rigour to their model. That doesn't somehow make it less accurate.
Of more interest is whether over fished stocks would be in (as much) trouble if not over fished.
Of course not. What's your point?
Skepticism is easy.
The resources we have are taken away at gun point, to squander on endless wars and on planting flags in space objects.