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A Doctor Remotely Told A Patient He Was Going To Die Using A Video-Link Robot (bbc.com)
dryriver quotes the BBC: A doctor in California told a patient he was going to die using a robot with a video-link screen. Ernest Quintana, 78, was at Kaiser Permanente Medical Center in Fremont when a doctor — appearing on the robot's screen — informed him that he would die within a few days. A family friend wrote on social media that it was "not the way to show value and compassion to a patient". The hospital says it "regrets falling short" of the family's expectations.
Mr Quintana died the next day.
Mr Quintana died the next day.
But it ain't a crime either.
Correlation! I KNEW IT. Dastardly robots, have they no shame?
For years, here on /., there have been stories about how people use technology - I think the first time was Radio Shack laying off employees: https://slashdot.org/story/06/...
I guess that you can see why people use technology to avoid unpleasant situations, but they should be highlighted as being inappropriate with the message being that like a Stark, "The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword."
Mimetics Inc. Twitter
A remotely controlled machine is not a robot. The voice telling him he would die was the doctors. He spoke the truth. If you can't handle the truth of someone near death's fate stay out of hospitals. Life is cruel and a bitch, then you die.
I get on a screen ant the best way to do this but what should the doc have done gone the next day and tell the dead body he is going to die ?
He was dead the next day had the doctor not said anything then he would have 0 chance of gett his passing in order.
As tech advances this short of thing will and kinda should happen
A few decades GAO I am sure people where just as devastated to hear a doctor over the phone tell them the person was going to die.
Either way the hospital and doctor gets paid.
I went to the doctor and he examined me and ran a battery of tests. His video link robot came back into the room and said, "Mr Ratzo, you're crazy." I told him I wanted a second opinion and he said, "You're ugly, too."
But the video link robot did suggest that I start doing yoga. When I asked him why, he said, "So you can kiss your ass goodbye."
You are welcome on my lawn.
I like the story immediately preceding this one is "Is Bad Customer Service More Profitable Than Good?"
Yes, I get that telling this to a patient is hard. But if you cannot do it in person, then do not be a doctor or do pathology were patients are already dead.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
It's Kaiser Permanente. What did you expect? Resources wasted seeing a patient in person, when they were going to quit paying fees in a few days anyway?
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
First paragraph
Ernest Quintana's family knew he was dying of chronic lung disease when he was taken by ambulance to a hospital, unable to breathe.
And the headline reads "A California man learned he had only days to live from a doctor on robot video"
False headline since he already knew it. The video diagnosis is a little cold but honestly this is just people bitching.
Fuck the internet.
The article immediately preceding: "Is Bad Customer Service More Profitable Than Good?"
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Then I would have told him to stick his head up his shiny metal ass.
I'm in my gown, backside sticking out, got into the position, doc did his bit, said I looked good, and left.
// actually told that joke to a friend who is a retired nurse
/// she didn't laugh, said that kind of thing happened all the time.
As the doc left the nurse came in and said "Who was that?"
/ here all week
What would have had to happen for the doctor to visit this patient in person? For instance, was he doing lift-saving surgery that afternoon in another hospital? Or just that he had many patients to make contact with in the short time between two other surgeries? There are many situations that would mean that this doctor could not have personally visited this patient.
So, what should the doctor have done? Not used the tech would mean not making contact with the patient at all. Had a nurse go see them, a nurse that can't give full information because they don't know the full situation and aren't a doctor? Or made the personal visits, which would mean not doing something else, like save someone's life in the theater?
Well, in this case, maybe the reaction of the patient means that not making contact at all would have been better. But I doubt all the other patients he talked with by video on that evening would have been happier with not seeing their doctor at all.
Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
"what's the bad news?" he asked the robot doctor.
"That number is in binary and I've been trying to get in touch with you since yesterday"
is one place where I think the govt couldn't possibly do worse than private companies.
Sign me up for optional welfare and charge me $100/month. I'm tired of my highest monthly bill being to some insurance company trying to save money on everything while all the reputable hospitals are charging $35 for a dose of Tylenol.
Just because we can do a thing, does not mean that we should do that thing. This is going to become more and more of an issue in the years to come.
Sounds like the bereaved family was looking for something to fuss about and latched on to this. Miserable people often do their best to make others miserable too. Good way to get the bill reduced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
A Doctor Remotely Told A Patient He Was Going To Die Using A Video-Link Robot
So did he die using a video-link robot? Maybe someone should look into the safety of using those things.
The robot in question is somewhat human-shaped, sorta. It has a screen where a "face" shows up from the telecommunication system, but it moves itself automatically around the place. It's a robot, you were wrong.
Two choices : You admit you were wrong and didn't realize that, or you double down on being more wrong, again. Tic, toc.
This story is pure one-sided clickbait.
There's no way that this man, and his family, were not aware that his condition was critical. The doctor (who might have been hundreds of miles away) made the correct decision to inform the patient immediately of his prognosis.
Being there in person wouldn't have changed a thing. Quite the contrary - the patient very probably would have died waiting for the doctor to show up in person to tell him exactly what he and his family almost certainly already knew - that his life was about to end.
This is a story designed to make an insurance company look evil. There may be plenty of valid reasons to hate Kaiser Permanente, but this incident was not one of them. Note from the article: ""The evening video tele-visit was a follow-up to earlier physician visits." The family in fact did have previous personal consultations, where I'm sure they were told what to expect if the test results came out badly. The tele-visit was the doctor following up with them in as timely a manner as possible.
"The attending doctor should have been there." Too bad. They weren't available, and the guy would have died the next day without the information and the family would be even more justly upset by that decision. You're being stupid.
Your decision could even have caused the hospital to get sued for withholding critical information that affected an outcome, potentially. You just love to fly into your blind conclusion jumping parades, don't you?
"Everyone involved is an idiot, surely from my barcalounger we can see all relevant facts and know that for sure!" - YOU IDIOT!
The grandkids probably didn't have as much trouble with that until they should. Some people these days claim to date by smart phone... only meeting rarely. Dumping by just disconnecting / ignoring sounds like a common thing too.
Communication tech doesn't seem to really be making people more connected on a human level. Technically they can send more data more often but it's hollow... I expect to hear more studies showing negative results as the younger generations continue to live in their bubbles. My generation lost the sense of community which died during the boomer era, but the next ones are losing more than that.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
If you can't handle the truth of someone near death's fate stay out of hospitals.
Likewise, if you cannot be bothered to take the time to tell your dying patient the truth in person then don't be a doctor. The problem here is not that the patient can't handle the truth it's that the doctor either didn't care enough to tell his patient in person or was, himself, unable to handle a serious conversation like this.
" The guy died two days after the conference." - Close enough for horseshoes. "It was a doctor the family had never ever seen before." So BFD? Shit happens, that's hardly 100% within Kaiser's control @100% of times.
"location of his hospital doctor at the time has not been released" - The point being the assumptive asshats who think the doctor was sitting upstairs in his office playing around on a computer rather than "simply" going down a flight of stairs to deign to give them the news in person probably aren't accurately gauging how busy and diversely located Kaiser doctors are at any one time. This was a pragmatic decision. A doctor saw them and gave them news.
He died the next day or the day after that. In the world of trying to get facetime with a particular doctor, within 48 hours is not always possible. That's just a fucking fact of life and reality, and not just Kaiser.
The family has one gripe - Their personal physician was not available to give them life-altering news, that they got anyway from an attending physician. That's it.
Cry me a fucking river, I've seen actual malpractice in person. This is nothing. Fuck the equivocation.
You're a moron. The news comes when it comes, the doctor was not available and another doctor delivered the news. You have no "right" to a familiar face telling you bad news. That's stupid crybaby shit. You're retarded.
The entire gripe is retarded. Actual medical malpractice exists, this is "my feels, my doctor wasn't available" faggot shit. A DOCTOR SAW THEM AND GAVE THEM THE NEWS. If they didn't get it, they'd be even more pissed.
Had Mr. Quintana's insurance company been Humana, they would have just posted a comment on his Facebook page.
>Michelle Gaskill-Hames, senior vice-president of Kaiser Permanente Greater Southern Alameda County, said in a statement that its policy was to have a nurse or doctor in the room when remote consultations took place.
They should have at least a nurse or PA in the room during this time. Instead, a doctor he didn't know is giving this guy with hearing problems his death sentence. Thank goodness his daughter was there to repeat what the doctor was saying so that he understood. Imagine if his daughter stepped out momentarily, and the dying man would have had some gizmo enter with a screen showing a dork sitting in a chair with a headset on not even dressed in a hospital coat coming to tell him that there's no hope. Barbaric
that creep can roll, man
If you're being examined over a video link, then I don't think they're planning to see each other in person. So he can either tell them or not. He might not have the *time* for a follow-up here.
So he could've just not told them and let them miss saying goodbye to their family? Is that really any better?
Who's responsible for this finite universe! WHO!? I WANT A NAME, and don't you just tell me "God" or something... phoey! I want INFINITY, not EXCUSES!
he is 78, you don't need a doctor to tell him he is dying!
The fact that it was connected to a robot is just to make a clickbait headline.
Or used a phone call?
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Your loved one is going to die.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
"Mr Quintana died the next day."
Well at least he got that part of it right.
I'm only surprised that the robot didn't hand him a "How To Cope With Your Impending Death" pamphlet.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Die in a hospital of your choice, but make sure you give a good tug and verify your head is actually irretrievably stuck up your ass before you just give up like this. Their gripe is that the original doctor wasn't the one. LEARN TO READ
The pedant was wrong in this case... it's a fucking robot. Settled? Or does someone need their ass kicked over this all over again? I'll put on a pot of fucking coffee....
That was from the Oxford dictionary. Someone is a moron, and it's you.
Car-making robots are just huge arms. Do they closely resemble humans? Hint - You're still a moron. Even by your own (flawed) definition, the telepresence hospital robot? DOES sorta resemble a human, kinda. Face/screen, etc.
And it moves itself. So you're wrong, it's a robot, and you're a fucking moron lol. Ahahaha. What a wasted life you must lead, so wrong, so constantly, because you're so dumb and think you're so clever for posting a link...
And you can't even read it to know what it actually says, lol. You're so dumb. Of course it's a robot, you fucking moron lol.
Ahh.. I needed that. Schadenfreude.
Actually it does. It resembles a human and moves itself automatically. You're wrong, you continue to be wrong lol. You're a moron, not a pedant. Even a moron can post a link to something it obviously can't even read, lol.
There's a reason they do in fact call them "telepresence robots" - they move around and do things automatically without anyone needing to directly control that. Maybe try to invent a new word for how dumb you are instead, lol.
You could easily be replaced by a robot and be 100% more correct in evaluating basic things like this, lol. Turing test fail, womp womp.
Better luck next time.
The robot in question is somewhat human-shaped, sorta. It has a screen where a "face" shows up from the telecommunication system, but it moves itself automatically around the place. It's a robot, you were wrong.
Two choices : You admit you were wrong and didn't realize that, or you TREBLE down on being more wrong, again, AGAIN! Lol. I know you're an idiot and can't accept that you're wrong, so guess what you'll do no doubt?
You stupid, stupid fucking robot, lol.
"Greetings Humanoid. Your operational functions will be deactivated in 96 hrs. END TRANSMISSION."
> A Doctor Remotely Told A Patient He Was Going To Die Using A Video-Link Robot
Why did we give these Video-Link Robots lasers anyway?
Could have used the price is right sad trombone meme.
So what WOULD have been the proper alternative here?
Disconnect the robot, take an hour to drive over while the patient waited and then tell her she was going to die in person? Somehow that doesn't sound all that good either.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
With all they study in their careers, they seem to fail to understand what society expects of them.
"This humanoid's expiration date has arrived."
Would the patient have died when he did if the Doctor did NOT tell him? Was it a psychosomatic death brought on by a suggestion?
There are so many stories of sick elderly people to hold on to life long enough to get past a major holiday or major family event (grand-daughter's wedding, etc)
The problem isn't that the doctor used a video link to tell this guy he was going to die. The problem is the guy didn't have access to health care that would have told him he was seriously ill sooner than 24 hours before he was going to die.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
You have no "right" to a familiar face telling you bad news.
I never said that you did have a right to this. When you go to a doctor you expect to have someone who cares about treating you. As such it is not at all unreasonable to expect your doctor to care enough to deliver serious news like this in person. This is clearly not medical malpractice it is a doctor being an arsehole much like someone who breaks up over text or email.
Yes, well it is rather hard to complain when you are dead.
The hospital says it "regrets falling short" of the family's expectations.
More like failing short of basic human decency. ...and note how they still tried to shift their mistake back on the family by smugly implying they somehow the family has unusual expectations.
This death was obviously caused by moving the clocks forward by an hour. Damn You, Daylights Savings Times!!!!!
So all that is needed to give the situation some humanity would be to have a nurse stand next to the robot and repeat what it says. It doesn't even need to be a nurse, it could easily be done by a desktop tech from IT who was in the area.
For some reason the term telefactor has never caught on. That's the correct name, if you don't want to just say computer screen, or video conference. (Did it have manipulators? Then it's a telefactor.)
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Violets are blue
Roses are red
It sucks to be you
You'll soon be dead
Why don't you just beg your patients to sue you
... a screen inviting the patient to swipe a credit card?
tone
What that's sonabitch name? This doctor need to lose his license!
Yes, I get that telling this to a patient is hard. But if you cannot do it in person, then do not be a doctor or do pathology were patients are already dead.
The doctor could have just not told him. The test results don't say, "patient will die in 2-3 days". They say things like, platelet count is 17, white blood cells are 26, serum albumin is 78.3, arterial blood gas panel pending... et cetera. The doctor could just say, if it comes up after the patient drops dead, "it was a judgement call. I didn't tell him he'd be dead in two or three days because I didn't want to cause him to freak out over nothing when he could have lived for months or even years still... I wanted to run another test," (or get a consult with another doc, or 50 other things,) "to confirm before just dropping THAT kind of news on the guy," and covered his AND the hospital's asses, and we'd never even have heard about this. No story, no scandal, no lawsuit... nada.
ALSO... this is SLASHDOT! Why isn't everyone here all, "YAY!!! ROBOTS!!! SO FSCKING KEWL!!! WOOO!!!"
I, for one, WELCOME our new telling-patients-they're-going-to-die-robot overlords!
Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
At least he was diagnosed correctly.
Of SOCIALIZED Obamacare medicine. Take a pain pill and go home. You are elderly, a "drain" on the rest of our comrades.
I'd be a bit more concerned with the level of care rather than the method of delivering any bad medical news. One of the reasons (in theory) for telepresence is so that you can consult specialists nationally/internationally without them spending hours/days traveling for each patient when they could be lending their expertise to numerous patients in that same time period. I'm not sure if this specific situation fits that scenario, the specialist could live next door to the hospital for all i know, and even if he lived on the other side of the planet there are definitely ways to handle it a little better (having a generalist onsite to handle consults), but without knowing a bit more I'd cut the hospital a little slack.
...but he wasn't wrong tho
Car making arms work autonomously, no one remote controls them. They fit the definition of robot.
An average car is not a robot. It moves.
I know I'm usually offered a video chat with a doctor with the chance of being seen sooner when I made an appointment once. I want to know if it was an option or mandatory. Keep in mind, even when optional it might've taken a lot longer for a regular face-to-face appointment... I'm not sure I see the unfairness, between the options of a doctor over a video call and no doctor at all... (I've usually had video call options with specialists, which are fewer on the ground than the others)