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FAA Says Boeing 737 MAX Planes Are Still Airworthy (cnbc.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNBC: The Boeing 737 MAX, the type of plane involved in a deadly crash in Ethiopia over the weekend, is still airworthy and the Federal Aviation Administration plans to issue a notice to the international aviation community later Monday, a person familiar with the matter said. "The FAA continuously assesses and oversees the safety performance of U.S. commercial aircraft," the FAA said in a statement. "If we identify an issue that affects safety, the FAA will take immediate and appropriate action."
Aviation officials in China and Indonesia ordered domestic airlines to ground their fleets of the popular Boeing single-aisle planes after the deadly crash of one operated by Ethiopian Airlines on Sunday. The 149 passengers and eight crew members on board were killed when the plane crashed shortly after takeoff. The incident was the second deadly crash of the new Boeing planes in less than five months. A Lion Air Boeing 737 MAX 8 plunged into the Java Sea shortly after taking off from Jakarta in October, killing all 189 people on board.
Aviation officials in China and Indonesia ordered domestic airlines to ground their fleets of the popular Boeing single-aisle planes after the deadly crash of one operated by Ethiopian Airlines on Sunday. The 149 passengers and eight crew members on board were killed when the plane crashed shortly after takeoff. The incident was the second deadly crash of the new Boeing planes in less than five months. A Lion Air Boeing 737 MAX 8 plunged into the Java Sea shortly after taking off from Jakarta in October, killing all 189 people on board.
Southwest, and I think American have both said they don't think anything is fundamentally wrong with the plane. Possibly this is some kind of training issue.
Given there have been no issues here, I don't think it's unreasonable for other carriers to keep flying them even while they figure out what happened.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
My faith in the government is such that I believe the FAA's statement has more to do with political donations than the aircraft in question.
It is surely only common sense that having the crash-prone 737s weeded out of the fleet makes the remainder not just safe, but safer, on average. Science.
Today, [company], the only one that manufactures [thing], says that in spite of [recent deaths / maulings / spontaneous combustions (strike unneeded)] attributed to [thing], [thing] is still suitable for general use, and the public should feel safe continuing to use [thing], preferably [in / at (strike unneeded)] a greater [quantity / rate (strike unneeded)] than before.
In other news, experts are still baffled as reports of [missing / de-limbed / immolated (strike unneeded)] personnel continue to come in. The [chief of police / head zookeeper / fire marshal] (strike unneeded)] advises the citizenry to remain calm as the reports are investigated by [his / her (strike unneeded)] top people.
I get the impression that Boeing is insufficiently managed. Partly, there is a lack of sufficient social cohesion, in my experience. Sometimes Boeing people act robotically, in some ways, and that prevents the wisdom that comes from everyone supplying their best ideas.
I've been exploring helping Boeing with its purchase of 80% of Embraer, a Brazilian aircraft manufacturer. There are huge cultural differences between the U.S. and Brazilian cultures. People with whom I work and I could help the management of the purchase operate smoothly.
Boeing's headquarters is in Chicago: Boeing to take control of Embraer's commercial-aircraft business in $4.7B deal.
Also, it is my impression that Boeing has not communicated well with the public concerning major issues such as loss of aircraft.
This is not a bombing, stop being stupid and q-anon. Witnesses saw both crashes "fall out of the sky" in a DIVE. In the previous crash they managed to level it off several times, fighting whatever was happening. This time unknown.
That's not a bombing, stop inventing bullshit. Inventing bullshit is the job of Sarah Huckabee Sanders. And I dog-face dare you to take food out of her always-lying mouth-by-way-of-shithole.
This is all made up by the shorts, Airbus and the big train lobby.
They do nothing without clear and compelling evidence. And even then have been known to delay.
There were cases in an earlier Boeing aircraft of metallic particles in hydraulic fluid causing crashes, but the FAA and NTSB held off on action because they couldn't prove that was the cause of the accidents in the lab.
Turned out their lab tests were faulty.
Once upon a time, they were too proactive, demanding changes without proper testing or evaluation. That also caused crashes, which is why they prefer to do nothing over doing too much.
The second aircraft was in flames prior to the flight terminating abruptly on the ground. It has been suggested that overworked controls fighting with an overly aggressive antistall device may have caused that.
Moreover, we must remember the 777. It suffered multiple near-disasters with battery packs in flames in the first few flights. This would suggest poor testing procedures.
Conditions for both crashes are very, very different from those in America, so if it's an environmental factor that triggered the fault, the FAA are likely correct.
If it's a design flaw triggered, as with the 777, by unusual system loads, then it could happen at any time.
If the accident reports are indeterminate and crashes remain in one part of the world, it's environmental.
Remember, unsafe designs don't explode on first use. The DC9 and original 737 were incredibly bad designs. But they only failed occasionally. Even the Comet completed more flights than not.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
I think this decision is controversial because there is not enough evidence either way to say that grounding the fleet is right or wrong. China/Indonesia could be right, or the US could be right.
If the FAA believes that the AOA sensor issue was properly addressed with clarified training, then this incident adds no information at present to change that status. If the plane went down because of the same issue, they have resolved the issue in their judgement.
If though, something emerges from this investigation that provides new causal factors then we're in new territory. It is worrying though that without this new active training, this plane seems to confuse pilots. That alone should give carriers pause who do not emphasize or train enough on the new procedures.
from the FAA, right now, before the black box analysis, would be to say that:
The Boeing 737 Max 8 is "probably, most of the time" still airworthy, as far as we know.
[cynicism]But that doesn't keep the sales flowing in, so what's the harm in a little time-shifting of the truth? [end cynicism]
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
you just weeded out the ones that are prone to fail early.
You're now flying in one that's statistically more prone to failing slightly later. And it's now slightly later.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into.
I say, let 'em crash.
Factcheckingandyearsofcompiledevidencesaysyou'reatraitor? LietoMuellerandsealyourfateyouobesediaperedbabydicktraitorswaitingtohang, breath, ordieinfederalprison? Andthere'snothingyoucandoaboutit,haha?!
I won't fly on any boeing, I like life too much...
Well, irrelevant!
What is relevant is that Boeing is right about the plane being safe but they forgot to mention one exception:
It isn't safe when creimer is on board since it may cause unbalanced load on the plane and this is very hazardous.
"What is relevant is that Boeing is right about the plane being safe" = Bullshit, unproven style, from ass of Kendall-in-heat.
You don't know what happened and are guessing based on having zero information. "It makes no sense." - Yeah no shit. That's why people are investigating it. You're a fucking savant aren't you? Jesus Christ.
YOU are not going to DECIDE what happened here. ELITIST INVESTIGATORS FROM THE SOCIALIST AMERICAN GOVERNMENT FAA WILL LET YOU KNOW!
YOU do not get a SAY, neither does the Ken doll.
Since these accidents are happening right after takeoff, I would bet it is one of the following government-mandated "safety" systems malfunctioning:
Speed limiter below 10,000MSL - global aviation rules limit airspeed to 250KIAS below 10,000ft. The control computer will dial back throttle on the climbout if the speed approaches 250KIAS. But, if the pilot has already activated the automated flight plan, which includes a vertical speed hold, the autopilot will try to maintain that vertical speed by pitching up while at the same time the completely independent and disconnected safety system is throttling back to avoid flying dangerously fast in crowded airspace.
Each system has no idea what the other is doing, but they are fighting each other. The pilot may not notice the throttling back because an engine at 50% N2 sounds nearly identical to an engine at 90% N2. The pilot may also not notice the high attitude or falling airspeed if he/she is feverishly trying to complete the 100 pages of checklists imposed by both the airline and the aviation authorities.
Once the airplane stalls, the safety autopilot will seize control of the aircraft from the pilots and attempt to pitch down, but chances are cargo has shifted from the high pitch, and with the cargo now shoved to the rear of the airplane, causing an aft center of gravity, the airplane cannot pitch itself down and becomes extremely difficult to control because of low speed, high AoA, and probably engine compressor stall as well, meaning the pilots can't get the plane to speed back up.
Flying airplanes used to be fun, but now it's a constant battle between government busybodies, penny-pinching airlines that want to automate literally everything so they can hire $8/hr Indian pilots, overworked/underpaid pilots who haven't had a good night's sleep in 3 days, and incompetent H1B software developers who have no idea how planes work.
Americans can't do engineering for shit. Their planes fall apart midair from lack of maintenance.
If you get on an American plane, you're probably not getting off alive.
It's the imperial measurement system. If cooks their little brains till they don't know what time of day it is.
You'd think after having liberated themselves from the pesky English they wouldn't want to touch/study/use anything "Imperial" with a 10 foot pole. And yet here we are, 2+ centuries later with the Yanks still clinging to an outdated incoherent shit measure system. I say let their airplanes burn and crash.
There are only like 150~ of them made, I think SW has like 20 of them.
I personally prefer to know rather than guess.
Summary: SW has 34 (with lots more ordered), AA has 24.
If they are the newer SW planes I've flown on recently, I will say one thing about them - I can't know how the controls are to operate, but I can say they've thinned up the seat cushioning a bit and they are not quite as comfortable as the older SW planes.
Another fact is that neither AA nor SW has had any reported incidences or close calls, despite many flights with these planes...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Several eyewitnesses reported seeing flames before the plane crashed, but it's not clear whether those were coming from the engines or from somewhere else on the aircraft. It's possible that witnesses are mistaken about the flames before the crash. It could be that the excitement and trauma of seeing the crash happen, and the subsequent fireball, caused them to incorrectly remember seeing flames before the crash.
According to the news article I read, however witnesses did say that the plane was pitching up and down and eventually nose-dived into the ground and caused a fireball. If it weren't for the reports of earlier fire, I could believe this was an MCAS problem and pilots were, perhaps in a panic, fighting the MCAS without remembering to disable the trim motors (there are switches right behind the trim wheels to deactivate the motors). You can bet that 737 MAX pilots from today on will keep those switches in the back of their minds. And Boeing will no doubt be making some changes if MCAS is implicated in any way.
In the meantime, I think with heightened awareness on the part of pilots after these two tragedies, the MAX 8 is still safe to fly on.
Well, let see what the black boxes have to say before jumping into conclusion.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
You self-announce your arrival like the narrator.
"I put on my robe and wizard's hat."
Precisely my point.
Like in the case of the 737 Max, where the FAA was essentially Boeing's bitch. There's no excuse for not informing pilots that they may need to physically wrestle the autopilot as it repeatedly tries to plummet the plane nose first into the ground, simply because Boeing wanted to save money on retrainng pilots on the new 'antistall feature' with a single point of failure. No excuse whatsoever.
When the FAA is upstaged by Brazil, who chose to disregard Boeing and retrain their fucking pilots, something is drastically wrong...bigtime wrong...with the FAA.
FAA now stand for Fucking Anti American, apparently.
"Again, same thing would have happened on the older aircraft." - NOPE
"Again, same thing would have happened on the older aircraft." = Yet another lie based on your bullshit. You have yet to VERIFY any of your CREDENTIALS CLAIMED.
We will wait. Your shit does not check out and you are making things up. Which aircraft are you checked out on currently? None.
Nice attempt to change the subject/obfuscate/walk away. Nice try, comrade. Mueller will see you now.
Airplane nerds - why are there not redundant (say 3, 5, 7?) sensors such that "majority" consensus would eliminate a faulty sensor?
With such catastrophic possibilities it makes me uncomfortable not to design that way. Of course, I know nothing about this.
Yeah, but it's likely to take a year before they issue final analysis / report. Not sure I want them flying around until we know for sure. Might be good for FAA, Boeing, etc., to fast-track this analysis.
How the 737, or pretty much any Boeing aeroplane gets an airtight is beyond me. (From the 737death to the years of 666Sataners -767,77,787, 747tired, etc) The 737 was constructed on 1960s technology and the entirety of its life had her no major airframe modifications. Even the 'newest' facelift, the cabin is loud like a rock concert, the presurisation precipitates brain explodions, the cockpit is a vomitorium of confusion. And if you die in an airline crash, there's no need to check, you were flying in a 737 - the works most dangerous aircraft.
I've watched enough Mayday episodes to know that for every crash that was witnessed there are always several people who report seeing flames and they are almost always wrong.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
You suggest M.C.A.S. was the fault of both crashes. That has not yet been proven.
The internet is full of knee-jerks who will come to conclusions based on crap facts.
"I think with heightened awareness on the part of pilots after these N tragedies, the MAX 8 is still safe to fly on."
Earlier N was 1. Now it is two.
Most 1st World countries, airlines order it with the optional AOA indicator. So if the AOA sensor is faulty, there is a related indicator that will show what is wrong.
The problems are if you don't have that option, and also don't know the new procedures for the AOA sensor.
So it doesn't seem like an extreme mitigation is even useful from an FAA perspective; the version flying here isn't likely to confuse pilots in the same way. It is also less likely for planes to keep flying with a faulty sensor here; precisely because we have the FAA.
The FAA is not the only party taking part in the investigation. 1) it happened abroad (not the US) 2) many nationalities have been affected. The FAA will have no way to tamper with the BB data (though I don't think they would do that if the crash was in the US anyway). And since many countries have been grounding these planes, the FAA (...) will be pushed into investigating in a quicker manner.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
The planes are fine; it's the ground that is the problem.
The FAA does not investigate airline crashes. That's the NTSB, who Ethiopia has invited to investigate this crash.
The NTSB is very good at it's investigations. They will issue recommendations, most of the time these are good, but sometimes they are impractical. The FAA, however, is not required to do anything with the NTSB recommendations.
They are totally safe when they do not fall out of the sky which only happens occasionally.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Yeah, fuck safety. No point in playing safe when there is a good profit to make.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Rest of world doesn't believe it
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
Boeing shareholder, I presume?
The US is or soon will be alone in flying these dangerous planes. Imagine the blowback if one in the US was to fail.
It is an EXTRA new automated system that you have to remember to disable. That system is there to correct the stalling behaviour of the aircraft (due to ancient design + new engines), so at first Boeing didn't even mention it to the pilots as it was added to protect them. Now it can also kill them so they have to remember to disable that as well. Yeah, with some training you can learn to avoid it, but it is obvious this is a badly designed aircraft.
I bet the guy that didn't want to "confuse" pilots face is pretty red right now
Oh look, it's the AC "faggot" guy. Please, stop. I don't really care what you say or who you're angry at, other than prattling on. Which is your point.
BTW, you mention "ass" once, "faggot" three times, Cunt once, and bitch once.
I think I see a pattern here: You wish to either be a woman, or sleep with men.
I'm obviously posting this AC: I'd hate to have every one of my comments followed by "faggot faggot faggoty bitch".
I'm not exactly sure what you tried to say. Are you AI?
OMG no. I don't hold shares at all and will take Airbus over Boeing any day. Especially when the Boeing in question is that pig with a ton of lipstick 737.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Oh no way! You really gotta get to know the "people" around here. That's dunkelfalke. If he owns any stock, it's in Messerschmitt.