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Kaspersky Lab Files Antitrust Complaint Against Apple Over App Store Policy (macrumors.com)

Posted by msmash on from the see-you-in-court dept.

Cybersecurity firm Kaspersky Lab has filed an antitrust complaint against Apple with the Russian Federal Antimonopoly Service relating to the company's App Store distribution policy. From a report: Kaspersky's complaint is specifically to do with Apple's removal of the Kaspersky Safe Kids app. In a blog post on the Kaspersky website, the firm says it received notice from Apple last year that the app, which had been in the App Store for three years, did not meet App Store guidelines owing to the use of configuration profiles. Kaspersky was told by Apple that it would need to remove these profiles for the app to pass review and remain in the App Store, but the Russian firm had argued this action essentially crippled the app. "For us, that would mean removing two key features from Kaspersky Safe Kids: app control and Safari browser blocking." The first allows parents to specify which apps kids can't run based on the App Store's age restrictions, while the second allows the hiding of all browsers on the device so that web pages can only be accessed in the Kaspersky Safe Kids app's built-in secure browser.

68 comments

  1. take them down! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I sure hope they win. Apple has gotten away with this garbage for way too long!

    1. Re:take them down! by MightyMartian · · Score: 0

      And what garbage is that precisely?

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:take them down! by bob4u2c · · Score: 2, Informative

      Pretty sure they won't win. It is Apple's garden, you want in you do what they want. They reserve the right to kick you out at any time for any reason, including no reason at all.

    3. Re:take them down! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're being a fool. You have no right to Apple's walled garden and they get to set the rules. Don't like it? Fuck right off.

    4. Re:take them down! by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      YEA! I want apple to Allow apps, that can change the configuration of my phone and change embedded security settings!

      Oh wait... I don't

      I want trust of Apps on the App store will work on my phone and not damage my experience with it. This is a phone device which is always on connected to often an insecure network. I am actually surprised that there hasn't been a major iPhone vulnerability that was widely taken advantage of. I expect it is partially due to Apple Strict App store policy.

      However if I need to do real work, and run real programs, I do it on my PC not my phone.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re:take them down! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The real reason is that it is filed in a Russian Kangaroo court.

      Apple will just laugh it off.

    6. Re: take them down! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty sure that they can win and then Apple's choice will be to lose millions of Russian customers or to comply with the court.

    7. Re: take them down! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are unclear on the concept here.

    8. Re: take them down! by bob4u2c · · Score: 0

      Again, it is their garden, they are under no obligation to let you in to play. The courts can't order them to list your software, just as a court can't order a retailer to carry a product because the company wills it.

      As for loosing millions, again a court can't fine them for not carrying a product. If you meant that Apple will loose out on millions in possible sales; considering Apple is expecting revenue of $89Billion in just the first quarter, I think a few million is chump change to them.

    9. Re:take them down! by Richard_at_work · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And that's what an anti-trust court is going to determine - it's not whether Apple has a monopoly, its whether they are abusing their position.

      Sure, it's a walled garden on only Apple products, but it's a large part of the overall app market and a significant amount of revenue - a court could certainly place limits on what Apple can and can't do in its own garden, if it finds Apple is abusing its position as gatekeeper.

      This is going to happen in the EU in the next year or so as well - I think Apple has something to worry about.

    10. Re:take them down! by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Aside from the fact that every jailbreak done on an iOS device is an exploit of a vulnerability, including lots of early ones where you just had to visit a website to jailbreak, App Store breaches are fairly regular, you just seemed to have tuned them out.

      And that's when Apple isn't doing stuff like allowing apps to secretly record your screen, without your knowledge and without any guarantee that your personal information is secure.

    11. Re:take them down! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "allowing apps to secretly record your screen, without your knowledge and without any guarantee that your personal information is secure." ALLOWING? Pretty sure they all but shut that shit down when discovered, so why lie?

      Do you think nobody is going to fact check bullshit like that, lol? Apple isn't perfect but "some" wall and some checking/restrictions > no wall at all, and no checks.

    12. Re: take them down! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Russia is it's own garden and they get to decide who plays there or not. Apple's obligation is to their shareholders so losing a large market versus the cost of compromising.

    13. Re:take them down! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This isn't antitrust. They can list the app on android's google play store for something like 50% of the cell phone market. Right?

      They want to force apple to list the app because it's the only way to sell the app to all the iPhone users. But it is apple's store so they must play by Apple's rules.

      Hell, I want marvel comics to publish my comic book, I can't just force them to publish it under antitrust laws.
      Hell I want Walmart to carry my line of shirts, I can't just force them to carry it in their store uner antitrust laws.

    14. Re: take them down! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If "Russia" is going to kick out all iphones over Kaspersky being forced to fix their app to comply with the Apple store, that's their fail. (And yours, for imagining that was how it works, lol you fucking idiot) So far you're just a liar.

    15. Re: take them down! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've allied yourself with an industry titan. Your swinging dick can wave proudly.

    16. Re: take them down! by bob4u2c · · Score: 1

      Funny thing is, I don't align myself with Apple. I have owned exactly one Apple product, a usb charger (because at the time it supplied the highest amperage and I got a %33 discount on it as I knew the store owner). Other than that, I will never own another Apple product. In my view Apple products are over priced, dumbed down, and force consumer lock down to such a degree that it just isn't worth it for me.

      Now if my grandma said she wanted a computer, I might recommend she get an Apple as it would suit her needs (used would be my recommendation).
      And for all my disdain, Apple will win this case. Nothing anti-trust about this, its their store and if they don't want to carry a product, they don't have to.

    17. Re:take them down! by Richard_at_work · · Score: 2

      No lie needed - Apple only cracked down on it after it was exposed. Up to that point, Apple explicitly allowed it, as all the apps using it had to pass App Store reviews multiple times, so they had Apples express permission to use it.

      This is something that that walled garden is supposed to prevent - but it didn't.

    18. Re:take them down! by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think you missed the bit, where this matter was going to be settled in a Russia court and not a US one. I am pretty sure Kaspersky will win. The Apple solution, will inevitably end up being different stores for different countries. So Kaspersky software will sell in the Russian Apple store but not in any other.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    19. Re:take them down! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you think he missed that? What part of his comment discusses the US? What part doesn't apply to Russian court case?
      Ironically, you are "missing something" of his discussion of EU events, to enable weaving some "will only happen in Russia" story.
      Of course the same underlying principles and issues are relevant to every other country on earth, and not specific to Kaspersky,
      although Kaspersky is successful in many countries around world, e.g. jointly working with Singapore and Interpol amongst others.

    20. Re: take them down! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope they lose. Apple is legit in saying what theyâ(TM)re saying. They do not need configuration profiles to do this. Forced VPN profiles per-app would suffice which are allowed and donâ(TM)t need MDM in place to do. Alternatively, Kaspersky could host their own MDM server and then be allowed.

      This is a stupid case.

    21. Re:take them down! by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      This is going to happen in the EU in the next year or so as well - I think Apple has something to worry about.

      I'm not sure they will. Apple fundamentally on their device in there store is in a different position than any other company owing to the completely closed ecosystem they present. They can absolutely dictate what happens on their platform as long as they apply their rules universally. Abuse of market position would depend on Kaspersky proving that they are indeed being treated differently than anyone else.

      This would not be the same as Google doing this on Android as condition of having Play certification (something similar to what they recently got in trouble over) precisely because Android is an open platform used by 3rd parties and you can't use your market power to dictate what 3rd parties do.

    22. Re:take them down! by bob4u2c · · Score: 1

      So your saying Kaspersky will win in a Russian court, but will lose in a US court? Hmm, something sounds fishy there. If this was a cut and dry issue both courts should rule the same unless there is some bias. So this sounds less like a legal issue and more like a political issue.

      And again, the Apple store is their own store. They can choose what products they want there and what products they don't want. US store, Russian store, it doesn't matter. If Apple doesn't want to offer it they are under no obligation to stock it. The same is true of your corner store, if the owner doesn't want to stock the foreign beer you like you can't force him to stock it, and neither can the courts. If all the corner stores in the world suddenly decided to stop carrying your foreign beer, well your tough out of luck.

      If your argument is that the Apple store is the only way to legally load software and you have no other choice, well your right you don't. You knew that going in and you still bought the device. If your thinking that because it is a device that can run software and anyone should be able to write software for it, again your mistaken. Take a modern car for example, you could write new software to supercharge your car (or modify the settings to get around some imposed restrictions). If you then go to the manufacturer and tell them that because you have software that will run on their car that they must offer it as an option to buyers; well I'm pretty sure they will laugh themselves silly, then they will sue for breaking their DRM and causing a safety issue.

      Now does this stop Kaspersky from using some jailbreak hack to side load the software; no. Will Apple support the product or offer to repair the device if the software causes problems; no. Can Kaspersky offer their software for other devices, sure. Apple isn't forcing them out of business, they just don't want to do business with them because Kaspersky wants special exceptions for their software. If you want in the garden you play by their rules, if you want to throw a fit because your not getting your way, tough.

      Lastly, I don't own an Apple device and never will. Partly because of the walled garden, partly because of other reasons. In the end though, they are right. Its their product and they can control what software they will support on it. Can you modify it to do something else? Heck yes, but it won't be supported, and they sure as heck won't promote it.

      *Side note: Somehow this reminds me of some little kid on the play ground going to their mom crying that some other kids won't play with them, and she needs to make them.

    23. Re:take them down! by mr_lemonade4796 · · Score: 1

      iOS will eventually be forced to separate the OS from the Apps. Sure, it will still look and work the same, but the monopolistic and anti-competitive policies will have to change. They can keep their share of the app sales, but they will need to allow any apps to run on their OS of course with-in the limits of general security.

      iOS will eventually be just like Windows and MacOS.

      It's only a matter of time.

      -T-

  2. Words by BringsApples · · Score: 1

    Kapersky
    Apple
    Russia
    Kids
    Apps

    These words together in any fashion makes me a little uncomfortable.

    --
    Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
    1. Re: Words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut up comrade motherfuck!

    2. Re: Words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Karka? Fucking Consortium shitting things up again. I swear you fucking bookahs...

  3. "and Safari browser blocking" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, I think I found the problem.

    1. Re: "and Safari browser blocking" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm surprised (well, I guess I'm not surprised given who the article is about) someone didn't say hey, Apple might not want us to hide safari. Add more people to the list of non-decision makers

  4. Hope many file against Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple has very little defense on this charge, 30% for a year and 15% after that for a app who has a subscriber fee that it must pay Apple these inflated percentages. I'm sure the Apple sheep will come to its defense, they always do. But if any other company was doing that to them they would be livid.

    1. Re:Hope many file against Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't "like" the 30% rule, but it is their right to set their own pricing regime for their own platform. It's theirs. Deal with it snowflake.

    2. Re: Hope many file against Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The platform "belongs" to each user of each device.

      Though some people believe otherwise, Apple Customers are not one big army marching in unison.

    3. Re: Hope many file against Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No but they all seem to be a part of one retarded hive mind.

  5. Tribut... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I looking at your mom and her anus!

  6. Walled Garden meets Iron Curtain by Virtucon · · Score: 1

    In a world of Walled Gardens, the caretakers determine what the weeds are. Unfortunately Kaspersky may always be considered a thistle.

    --
    Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
    1. Re:Walled Garden meets Iron Curtain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about you learn to read and notice the specific problems with the way their app works visavis the Apple store, eh? Blathering without reading may always be considered pointless and stupid.

    2. Re:Walled Garden meets Iron Curtain by Virtucon · · Score: 0

      What did you say? I can't hear you with Tim's dick in your mouth.

      --
      Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
    3. Re:Walled Garden meets Iron Curtain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about you learn to read and notice the specific problems with the way their app works visavis the Apple store, eh faggot? Blathering without reading may always be considered pointless and stupid. You are pointless and stupid.

    4. Re:Walled Garden meets Iron Curtain by Virtucon · · Score: 1

      sorry all I got was "mumble mumble" you'll never get anywhere in life like that.

      --
      Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
  7. This is why some devs avoid App Store by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    BareBones doesn’t distribute BBEdit through the App Store for somewhat similar reasons - certain functionality isn’t allowed for App Store apps. I think with BBEdit it has to do with command line tools and possibly having the ability to edit files which need admin permissions to access.

    Of course BBEdit was already well entrenched before the App Store even existed, so not being in the App Store is unlikely to impact their bottom line (note: they did have an App Store presence for a while). It might not be as easy for newer companies. To be honest, though, I don’t know what percentage of software on the average Mac comes from the App Store versus other more traditional sources. I don’t use the Store much, but then I’ve been doing this for quite a while.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:This is why some devs avoid App Store by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was wondering why they had gone to the App Store at first, and then pulled out of it.

      interesting.

    2. Re:This is why some devs avoid App Store by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In this case, the issue is that applications sold through the App Store are limited in some ways in their full system access. Because of this, disk utilities and other applications that require low level disk access and high-level privileges can't gain proper access to carry out some tasks. This is part of the sandboxing implemented some years back by Apple. The reason BBEdit chooses not to be in the App Store is due to the revenue cut they'd have to give Apple. As you said, they're a well established product, so they have less need for the publicity and promotion they'd get through the App Store.

    3. Re:This is why some devs avoid App Store by Anubis+IV · · Score: 3, Informative

      While the story of BBEdit is an interesting one, you seem to be unaware that Apple announced from the stage at WWDC last year that BBEdit would be returning to the Mac App Store.

      Also worth pointing out: BBEdit was pulled from the Mac App Store, not the (iOS) App Store, whereas Kaspersky is complaining about (iOS) App Store stuff. The difference matters. With the Mac App Store, the vast majority of apps are available outside that storefront and macOS’ default behavior allows apps outside the store to run without problem. Not so in iOS, where users have no realistic choice for circumventing any seemingly capricious or onerous requirements Apple enacts that might hamstring developers.

  8. They can still sell it, just not on the app store by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    THere are other ways to solve this. THings like Goode provide their own app environment.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  9. That's what I want by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    the Russians keeping my kids safe.

    1. Re:That's what I want by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      When chess Grandmaster Lev Alburt was growing up in the Soviet Union, they had lots of propaganda warning the people that Americans were preparing to invade to bring democracy.

      The children, dutifully believing the propaganda, made maps showing the location of the local military barracks, and other landmarks, and kept them hidden to give to the Americans when they landed.

      But they never came. So eventually he defected.

      Much of Russia probably agrees with you. But don't ask them; opinions are dangerous for them.

  10. Apple's abysmal parental controls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As a parent I've spent months investigating Apple's built-in settings that provide me with control of the phone while my children learn self-control. What I've found:

    1. Reporting of screen time is spotty. I've got 4 boys. 2 of their phones has never (iPhone 7s) reported, 1 occasionally reports (5), and 1 usually reports (6).
    2. The time controls are embarassingly easy to circumvent. They routinely exceed the alloted time and occasionally well over.
    3. There is no way to force them to wifi when at home where I can filter sites so I've have to rely on Apple's controls (which are already suspect) and have no easy way of log review to know the controls ARE working.

    1. Re: Apple's abysmal parental controls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't want to be the parent who is constantly looking over their child's shoulder but I do want the ability to check in on them periodically to ensure they are behaving properly e.g. not acting like a jackass; trolling legit posts on a forum.

    2. Re:Apple's abysmal parental controls by Huge_UID · · Score: 3, Funny

      3. There is no way to force them to wifi when at home where I can filter sites so I've have to rely on Apple's controls (which are already suspect) and have no easy way of log review to know the controls ARE working.

      Sure there is. Faraday cage your house.

    3. Re:Apple's abysmal parental controls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You cant seriously rely on apples software. They write the worst software ever.

  11. Apple is getting more of my business. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you are on a private app store owned by Apple. You play by their rules.

    Kaspersky Lab is a Russian shit firm. Our government has banned their use on government devices. I don't trust them anymore than Chinese shit devices.
    They are guilty until proven innocent.

    So kudos on Apple for setting some standards!
    Yes, I like walled gardens. I've been burnt by malware on my Android devices. NONE on my iOS devices.

  12. You are pointless and stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about you learn to read and notice the specific problems with the way their app works visavis the Apple store, eh faggot? Blathering without reading may always be considered pointless and stupid.

    (As you are now considered.)

    1. Re:You are pointless and stupid. by Virtucon · · Score: 0

      still mumbling, sorry this is going nowhere much like your life probably. Sorry you're such a hateful little fucktard. Go out side, take a walk maybe read a book.

      --
      Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
  13. Re: They can still sell it, just not on the app st by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not unless you jailbreak your phone.

    A better alternative might be to keep those profiles on Kasperskyâ(TM)s servers and reference them as needs. If the app canâ(TM)t reach their servers, lock things down unless an pin or password is entered.

  14. Sorry illiterate faggot, we'll be here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about you learn to read and notice the specific problems with the way their app works visavis the Apple store, eh faggot? Blathering without reading may always be considered pointless and stupid.

    You are pointless and stupid.

  15. Configuration Profiles by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Configuration profiles offer a lot of control of a device, and can pose asecurity risk. Nothing really prevents a developer from distributing the app and configuration profile independently though, just makes it harder for the end user. If all the functionality is really in the profile though, it becomes easy to bypass the sales mechanism.

    First link I found on the subject: https://www.howtogeek.com/1761...

  16. they're "replacing" safari by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    apple doesn't like it when you prevent their own shit from running. that's the main problem. i'd also have issues with a 'safe kids' browser from a russian firm. imagine all the data points they can collect, and collate with other available data, for use in the russian government's new game of feeding 'anti-west' propaganda to kids.

  17. Yes we are. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We are the Apple Army, and we will mow down all against us.

  18. This app replicates iOS parental control features by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    iOS already includes parental controls that allow a parent to disallow app usage, based on the age-rating of the app, and permissions (location, camera, cellular data, etc) on a per-app basis. It also allows locking out use of the Safari browser, as well as lock out the installation (or uninstallation) of apps on the device. Totally unaware what Kaspersky is supposedly adding here, other than security vulnerabilities.

  19. Think of the good Kaspersky can do by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    The past work on malware discovery helped a lot of people and nations secure their data and networks.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
    Bringing Kaspersky to any OS will just improve such support and detection of new and unexpected malware.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  20. Re:This app replicates iOS parental control featur by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kaspersky provides reliable software that works. apple cant provide that on their own hardware.

  21. the reason they will win by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    will be because Kapersky is almost certainly a tool of the Russian gov't and this app is or will be an attempt at a backdoor into iOS devices

  22. Re:take them down! (Putin said and minions obeyed) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > Apple will just laugh it off. ... and they will laugh so hard they'll choke on Novichok ... and then Vlad gets the last laugh ...

  23. Grow a pair by budsetr · · Score: 1

    Kapersky should grow a pair and just abandon the Apple market entirely. In fack anyone who complains (I'm looking at you Spotify) should abandon the Apple market. Lack of choice will then (hopefully) destroy Apples preciousness.