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Startup Coding Bootcamp Modern Labor Says It Will Pay You $2,000 a Month For 5 Months To Learn To Code, and Take Roughly 15% of Your Salary For 2 Years Later (vice.com)
Modern Labor promises to teach you to code in five months and help find you a job when you graduate -- but you're on the hook for the next two years. From a report: Most coding bootcamps almost sound like get-rich-quick schemes: Devote a few months to learning a new skill from home, and walk into a job that could pay you $70,000 a year to start. For the most immersive programs, you'll need to put your life on hold while you learn full-time. Usually, students pay for those coding bootcamps upfront while they take time off their jobs to learn.
Startup coding bootcamp Modern Labor pays people $2,000 a month for five months while they learn to code, following a curriculum remotely from wherever they live for at least 30 hours every week (working out to roughly minimum wage). After graduation, if they land a job that pays at least $40,000, Modern Labor takes 15 percent of their salary for the next two years. For example, if they find a job that pays $80,000, they'll pay Modern Labor $24,000 over two years. [...] Modern Labor's business model is an example of an "income sharing agreement," a scheme that's on-trend for Wall Street and Silicon Valley entrepreneurs looking to disrupt education.
Startup coding bootcamp Modern Labor pays people $2,000 a month for five months while they learn to code, following a curriculum remotely from wherever they live for at least 30 hours every week (working out to roughly minimum wage). After graduation, if they land a job that pays at least $40,000, Modern Labor takes 15 percent of their salary for the next two years. For example, if they find a job that pays $80,000, they'll pay Modern Labor $24,000 over two years. [...] Modern Labor's business model is an example of an "income sharing agreement," a scheme that's on-trend for Wall Street and Silicon Valley entrepreneurs looking to disrupt education.
.... wait, and Take Roughly 15% of Your Salary For 2 Years Later? Hahaa... KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNN (academy)
Unfortunately for such startups the contract is non-binding in California. You don't even have to return the $10K "salary" they paid you. It's pretty easy to u derstand state employment law but feel free to consult a lawyer (often at no cost to you)
targeting short sighted individuals
This is just capitalism in action, right? When you ask the repair shop in the desert "how much to fix my car" and they respond "how much you got?" , it's the same premise. If the company can get you trained and into a job, they will try to extract as much of your future earnings as they can, because in their eyes, without them, you wouldn't have that job.
This is not much different from the philosophy of private colleges. Just a slightly different payment method.
Remember that big computer consulting firms in the early 90s had a sign on plan giving you $25,000 of training that you had to pay back if you left before 2 years.
Whether or not you received $25,000 in training is debatable.
What's the collection part of the contract you sign when you attend the school?
What happens if you do not 'graduate' or do not get a job within 6 months?
What happens if you make $30,000 or less a year?
Is there a federal handout paying the company?
Is it venture capital money funding the $2000 per month paid to students?
Are the students working on actual software projects for paying clients?
that so many IT analysts are making that being a programmer is becoming a "blue collar" job. Boot camps prey on people with promises of glory and being a hacker, but most of them emerge to work in places where the pay is fairly low and the job basic, like front-end Web development. Very, very few of these "graduates" go on to do systems programming, graph theory, AI/ML, etc. They just don't teach that kind of stuff, and what they do teach is fairly shallow anyway. It's better to go to a community college for two years and get an AS degree in programming. You'll have at least some credibility and an actual degree. And in many cases, it's cheaper than a lot of these boot camps.
I've worked with some of these guys, and they don't emerge knowing much. A few couldn't even set up their own programming environments, as the labs at these places are run by sysadmins who ensure the labs are up to spec all the time. If you want to make money and you're good at math and enjoy numbers, learn Python, R, Go, and some systems stuff. Wall Street loves them some R hackers.
This is exactly the kind of thing Government should be providing for free. It's even mostly the same deal, you earn more money, and the government takes a higher percentage of your salary.
The fact that private enterprise is doing this shows the failure of government to provide free education.
Let's say you make $75K per year. That's like $22K over 2 years you have to pay. Minus the $10K they paid you to learn, that's only $12K for an education and a job. Better than most college deals where you pay upfront with the possibility of maybe making some money in the future
They pay you 10 000$ bucks and then take 15% of your salary for two years. 10 000 being 15% of 66,666.67$, unless you can't find a job or get a very shitty one, you'll end up paying 15% of every buck over 66,666,67$ for this boot camp. So let's say you get a 60k$/year job, you'll end up paying around 8 grand for only 5 months of training.
I'd rather lend money to a bank instead. Or not. I mean, who want coders who can't count? Those who fall for these may very well end up unemployed. ;)
It is worse than that. TFA isn't clear, but it looks like they pay you $2000 per month, yet you are still responsible for paying tuition that exceeds that. So YOU are paying THEM in net payments even while you are still taking the class. Since these are "online" courses, their net cost to educate you is near zero.
Only a complete idiot would sign up for this scam.
When my company is interviewing, and we have two candidates:
Candidate 1: I learned to code in a 3 month boot camp that cost me $15k.
Candidate 2: I learned to code in my mom's basement using free tutorials and Stackoverflow.
we will definitely prefer #2, who is not a fool parted from his money, but has also shown himself capable of self-learning.
10k up front, "learning to code" for whatever that's marketable for ($variable) for two years after that? Lol? Why not also sell a kidney or a pair of lungs too while we're at it? Question : How deeply invested in this is PETER THIEL, right?
Why don't all colleges provide free education, but in return, your wages are garnished for a period at a set percent? This would provide a huge incentive for colleges to graduate students with real world skills. If your university turns out students who can't make money, your institution fails quickly thus freeing up resources for better ones.
We've successfully brought back indentured servitude. This will go nicely with those Debtors Prisons we bought back years ago and the modern slavery this is prison labor.
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if they do manage to find you a job you'll be in deep if you ever lose it. These days you can't make it past an HR filter unless you've got a 4 year degree from a proper University. My bud's been looking for months and the only thing he can get is weekend graveyards where they're so desperate they'll take anything with a pulse. He's had a few of those, they don't last because they're always working to offshore you...
In 1990 this would have worked. But in 1990 I could crack open a book, read it, and go get a job making $70k/yr writing code because that was before H1-Bs and offshoring.
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"for an education and a job."
1st, it's not an "education" it's a single field/skill. If you go in there unable to read like some red state coaltard, it's not going to work. Secondly, a job is not guaranteed, third, do they fake resumes/references too? You're assuming a tonne here.
You can make 75k at regular civil service jobs within 2 years without the loan sharking, and anyone can realistically learn to code absolutely for free IF MOTIVATED, which you'd need to be for this endeavor anyway. 10k, lol. Chump change.
This has Peter Thiel all over it.
As someone who has done boot camps before, never a 5 month one, but still, what you learn in them doesn't stick very well because of the accelerated pace. You need to use it as soon as you get out for it to form into long term memories.
Colleges give you an ACTUAL education, have standards, etc. This is basically Trump University with a check cashing joint up front. You can learn to code for free in 5 months if you're motivated. 10k doesn't do it. This is worthless.
Where'd you see that? I just read their front page then clicked through their "application" and saw no mention of it. Didn't wait to see it it evaluated my (non)responses and went to another page though (it hung for a long time and then I closed it).
Now those "journalists" have no excuse.
Many ACs are just Russian trolls.
And what Loretta Lynch goes down on is not my business. I'm guessing: not you.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
what you learn in them doesn't stick very well because of the accelerated pace.
According to TFA, many of the people signing up for these bootcamps are recent college graduates. They are finding out that their degrees are worthless, so they are hoping to learn something useful in a crash course.
If they had put more thought into their college major, they could have learned to code over 4 years instead of 5 months.
This model is fantastic.
Think about how modern education is currently conducted, regardless of public or private university, student loan or cash payment:
The student puts money down upfront for an uncertain outcome at an institution that, once payment is received, has no vested interest in the student even completing courses, let alone finding rewarding employment. In fact the institution is financially rewarded for keeping the student as a student for as long as possible.
In modern education, ALL the risk is laid in the lap of the student.
This model completely reverses this insanity. The student has virtually no risk up front besides their invested time. The institution has a financial incentive in student in multiple ways:
#1 Keep them a student for as short a time as possible, the longer they're a student the more they have spend on the student
#2 Find rewarding employment. The more money the student makes as a result of their success, the more money the company makes, then the more students they can invest in and so and so forth.
This is a genius model and it's how the airline and trucking industries are moving towards as finding qualified applicants has become a very difficult endeavour.
I think this is designed to be applied to states like Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. I live in Alabama and I can tell you that people will line up for this sort of ...thing.
Politics; n. : A religion whereby man is god.
Good for English and Psychology Grads.
People with degrees that businesses actually want, assuming you didn't get a CS without actually learning to code in 3+ languages, don't need this.
It is just another scam for the stupid. They don't actually care about the quality of the job you get. Also, you'll not be coding in po-dunk-pooh middle America. You'll almost certainly have to move to the largest city in your state, unless you live in a tech-centric state - then you'll have to move to one of the tech-centric places. How would you like living in Columbus, GA or Reston, VA or Omaha, NE or ... Tuscon, AZ. With a boot camp, you won't be moving to SF or NYC or Portland, assuming those are the top places in the US for coders.
These boot-camp places only work for professionals who already are expert in another language. They don't have time to teach a = a + 1 stuff. ... perhaps xcode or Go-lang.
If you want a job, wipe Windows, load fedora/CentOS, and hit youtube and EdX-whatever. Free course on highly marketable skills like python, postgressql, C, C++
Stay away from the languages that everyone in Indian and China learns - php, Java, C#. Do you really want to compete against someone willing to work for $1/wk?
And don't just learn a language. Learn how to use is on EVERY OS. You know all those "cloud servers?" Which OS do you think they run? Hint - it is NOT Windows.
Find me a new job and you can have 5% for 1 year.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
My wife gradually moved from being a business analyst into support and maintenance on the IT side of her organization, but she didn't really have much programming experience. So her employer sent her to (and paid for!) a C# "coding" bootcamp. After a little probing I determined it wasn't just about C# but Microsoft's whole MVC-pattern framework. Ok, fine.
She's pretty smart, so she passed with flying colors and got her precious certificate. And I'm sure if she had a computer with visual studio or whatever it's called, she can click click click and create a basic app for entering and storing and retrieving whatevers. Nothing fancy, but definitely basic functionality, nothing wrong with that. Cool. So: good job, bootcamp.
Then I found out she doesn't know what a for loop is. Nice "coding" bootcamp ya got there.
More like the HR person only actually sends you Candidate 1 if that. You aren't making most of the cuts. Software or idiots or a combination of both are. You just see what they let through their fucked up filter.
Remember 10 years ago when you made fun of all those idiot conservatives who still believed the media and the CIA that Saddam had WMDs and was involved in 9/11 even well after we all found out it was horseshit? Well congratulations, now it's your turn to be the idiot!
Always include the complete job description back at them in the margin in 2 pt, white on white text.
They prefer to waste your time over there's, you just have to be smarter than some HR drone. You should not be at all concerned about wasting their time, they don't care about wasting yours.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
every year you get older after 25 it's harder to get a job. Companies want young folks with just enough training to do the job. So it's important to consider how you spend those early, high value years of your career.
The trouble with these sorts of phony degrees is they won't get you past HR filters designed to hire and H1-B over an American. You need a 4 year degree for that. During the last recession folks with proper, 4 year degrees in useful fields (medical, business, legal, STEM, etc) were largely unaffected. They're also only about 20% of the population...
The trouble with this is that it's no substitute for a proper, 4 year degree in today's job market. Should it be that way? Probably not. But are we going to pass a law? End the H1-B program? Stop immigration? Ban offshoring? No, of course not. We live in the world the way it is, not the way it should be.
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But #2 has to have extensive retraining. Well, so does #1 of course. But if those are the only two candidates then go digging for more resumes.
He gets the rejections in about 2 hours or less, even if it's late at night. There are scam jobs out there ($40k/yr, 80hr/week, bring your own car, no we don't pay mileage, yes you will drive all over this 150+ mile wide city) and there's the weekend graveyards, and there's the folks offering $10/hr for 6+ years of experience and training. Everybody else demands a college degree because, well, they can get it. And if all else fails there's the H1-B program.
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Yeah but 2 won't get an interview with your company, in fact if comments you've made previously are an indication 2 could have solved classically unsolvable computation problems or solved a few with previously thought impossible efficiency and you'd toss his resume in the trash because it doesn't list a degree.
Of course but that is true of anything you learn in college as well. You just cut out the cruft they use to pad it, accelerate it how long it actually takes to learn that material. Either way if you actually want it to be functional you need to couple it with experience. These things are for entry level gigs. Sadly finding somewhere that doesn't want you to already have experience for an entry level position is going to be tough these days.
Modern take on the Nigerian 401 scam
"TFA isn't clear, but it looks like they pay you $2000 per month, yet you are still responsible for paying tuition that exceeds that. So YOU are paying THEM in net payments even while you are still taking the class. "
I can't find anything on their website indicating that you pay any tuition at all.
They pay $2000/mo for the camp, if you get a job paying more than $40k/yr they get 15% for 2yrs with a cap of $30k paid to them.
It doesn't sound like the worst plan for a new college student, especially if it enables them to get an entry level position at a company with tuition reimbursement.
More like the HR person only actually sends you Candidate 1 if that.
If HR is the gatekeeper for technical hiring, then you work for a dysfunctional organization.
HR's job is to do the paperwork, not make the decisions.
Hiring good people is the most important competency that an organization can have.
It is astounding how many companies are so bad at it.
TFA actually has info from someone in the program. They have you working projects, she indicated she's already completed 15. Afterward they don't guarantee placement but they have an optional staffing platform for gigs 1mo-contract to hires. So you produce actual work output as part of the camp.
I mean at face value it isn't that unreasonable. You don't need 4yrs to learn most development especially web front/backend development and getting it in one place alongside practical experience is all to the good. Technically it is a little sketchy wanting participants to work on projects the company is getting paid for AND wanting them to pay back what they make is a bit greedy but like you said, you DO need things to practice on and it will help build something for a resume if you are entry level or making a career change.
What is very sketchy to me is the 30hr minimum. They have an activity tracker app that monitors your usage to make sure you are actively working on everything for at least 30hrs a week and have people competing to log as many hours as possible 45-60hrs+. Which makes it dramatically lower than minimum wage AND they want to pay up to 3x whatever they are giving you back. Sweatshop style.
But #2 has to have extensive retraining.
#2 has shown he can learn on his own, without needing babysitting.
But if those are the only two candidates then go digging for more resumes.
For a $20/hour code-monkey position? In today's economy, this is as good as you are gonna get.
It isn't mentioned in the TFA either.
The sketchy part is they having you working on projects they are being paid for in order to get that $2k/mo, they push for 30hrs minimum but also push competition on number of hours worked coming to 45-60hrs so that equates to dramatically lower than minimum wage. So basically you work for less than minimum wage for 5months learning on the job (but apparently the requirements push for previous coding experience) and then have to pay back up to 3x that for the privilege of having worked below minimum wage.
The requirement does expire if you don't find a gig paying at least 40k within 5yrs.
The only bright side there is that you'll have a portfolio of projects when done.
You don't get a 4 year degree to write code. You either learn it yourself, or go to a community college.
I don't respond to AC's.
I can't find anything on their website indicating that you pay any tuition at all.
TFA states that tuition for the course is $14,987.
It doesn't sound like the worst plan for a new college student
According to TFA the people running the bootcamp have a history of involvement in other scammy organizations.
especially if it enables them to get an entry level position at a company with tuition reimbursement.
TFA implies that employers don't place much, if any, value in the certification.
It is really just a piece of paper that says "I failed an IQ test."
MS here, and I was hopeful when I started reading TFA et al. I'm unemployed at the moment, so I thought why not? I have only a few grand more on my student loans from a decade ago and no other debt so it would be nice to get a job offer of basically anything and GTFO.
Except it's all about teaching web development garbage. So much for that. No C, no golang, nothing interesting at all. Not even fucking Java. (I do need to learn more OOP, and as much as I loathe Java it would at least be useful)
Is it even worth getting in to this?
Modern Labor takes 15 percent of their salary for the next two years. For example, if they find a job that pays $80,000, they'll pay Modern Labor $24,000 over two years.
Is it just me, or is this more 30% than 15%?
But I would definitely call one if I were dumb enough to enroll in this.
I thought such contracts were illegal or invalid.
NIH had similar requirements that if your education or training was paid thru an NIH fellowship, you had to "payback" by working in the field of training for several years. That arrangement was later ruled to be illegal indenturing.
Should make it a form of loan.
It starts with 15%. Then it goes to 20%. Then 25%. Then 50%. ...sooner or later you get your education paid for, but the cost is ~100% servitude
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
Also there's taxes on those 2K, I'm sure, and maybe also in tuition if somehow it is considered a benefit in kind.
Yeah I know the companies Iâ(TM)ve worked for have always had just stellar HR....
If you think for a second that your name will be on whatever you've coded up for them, you're a fool.
So... these boot-camps often "sell" the cheap-labor-student to Infosys (or other similar outfits), who gets them into the door of say JPM for a year, and BOA for another year... so someone with a 3-months bootcamp suddenly has 2 years worth of IT experience with a big financial institution...
Not saying I'd sign up for such a thing, but not all of them are a bad deal for someone who wants to get a start in this field.
TFA is titled "This Company Will Pay You to Learn to Code, and Take 15 Percent of Your Income Later" written by Samantha Cole on 3/28/2019
You are referencing the next similar topic but unrelated FA on the page titled, "The CEO of a Failed For-Profit College Started a Coding Bootcamp" written by Jordan Pearson 2/24/2016.
There is no tuition stated or implied in TFA.
"TFA implies that employers don't place much, if any, value in the certification."
That is going to be on an individual basis. You can apply for an entry level position with a resume that says "Voted Most likely to hangglide in high school" and "Shaved roast beef with precision at Arby's for six months" or you can put those AND "Attended Modern Labor Development Bootcamp" and reference the 15-20 production projects you contributed to and show examples of your work. You are getting shafted in that this is really on the job training for less than minimum wage being called a boot camp and then you are supposed to pay them back 15% of your salary for the next two years for the priviledge of having been given that gig. It's an extra bonus because they have a staffing board to get gigs off of and presumably get some kind of cut from that if the students use it as well.
Whether self study, a course, or a degree all it really shows is initiative towards learning, anything beyond that is experience and a track record and as an employer you can't or at least shouldn't expect an entry level employee to have one. You can self study or you can do Khan's but a boot camp which includes actual inbound for profit tasks is probably going to be more efficient. When you self study you have lots of gaps you don't know are there.
According to the TFA it will. I don't see why it wouldn't since they get 15% of your salary if that enables you to get a job or higher paying job. The have a profit incentive to make you look good, and their students all looking good only makes them look better and their services and staffing board a better sell.
MOD DOWN, mistaken and inaccurate. My own post is redundant but this correction needed to be more visible.
TFA is titled "This Company Will Pay You to Learn to Code, and Take 15 Percent of Your Income Later" written by Samantha Cole on 3/28/2019
You are referencing the next similar topic but unrelated FA on the page titled, "The CEO of a Failed For-Profit College Started a Coding Bootcamp" written by Jordan Pearson 2/24/2016.
There is no tuition stated or implied in TFA nor shady implications and details you refer to.
I would just sit them down in front of a computer, assign them a programming task and watch them complete it and make sure the program runs. Then inspect the code for neatness, logic, compactness and accuracy and of course how long it took. The problem would be relatively simple but require some complex logic to compete. The best three then go on to be interviewed to evaluate psychological worth, how good a team player are they and honestly I would be tempted to send the final person to a psychiatrist for an psychopathy evaluation so as to exclude psychopaths and narcissists, who are always disruptive in the workplace.
The resumes and various bits of paper only about getting to interview stage, mainly used to exclude people, those that go in the WPB file (waste paper basket). There are plenty of people who can program but not so many who can does so quickly and efficiently and be a positive in terms of the work social environment. A happy workplace is a far more productive environment than an unhappy one. That testing for psychopathy and narcissism, a bit costly but hey a few hundred dollar test versus ten even hundreds of thousands of dollars (be it stolen proprietary data, stolen company property, in office conflicts and fights or simply primitive sexual assaults, that test will reduce those risk a lot, seriously well worth the investment).
I wonder if employment agencies and insurance companies could come together ie insure the worth of an employee at time of employment and cover the employer for things like the legal cost of sexual harassment in the workplace or the theft of proprietary data. The insurance company would then carry out the test to minimise risk, as part of the employment agencies employee evaluations. You could quite profitably provide insurance cover for employee caused losses, with proper evaluations, allowing employment agencies to guarantee the value of their placements.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
The typical bootcamp typically charges around 15 K. The student usually spends around three months in training with no income and at the end is on his own to find a job. The school will offer assistance in putting together a resume for the student but after that the student must rely on his networking and interview skills to find employment. Success was very high at first but has dramatically cooled down as more students graduate. At least with this arrangement if the student never finds work then he is at least not out of pocket any money. The school will be very motivated to make sure its students find employment after graduation in order to receive income. How does the school ensure an outcome of steady employment at good wages? By being more selective in admissions than other bootcamps. What is breaking the bootcamp model is that these schools are enrolling anybody who wants to come in without regards to aptitude. The end results are poor coders who have dim job prospects.
They already have a proud history of schemes like this that stretches back over hundreds of years:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
What sort of work would you expect a 'code monkey' to do? This value proposition has always eluded me.
Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
This is what the danish government have done for ages... Paying you to study and then taxing you on your salary... It works...
If this offer was from a traditional university, I'd sign up.
It gives them a performance incentive for educational quality.
If all the grads get $150k/year, that's a LOT better than $40k.
I do think they need to raise the bar to $75k for payments due to cost of living in today's time.
And my bet is they take that 15% even if not related to coding. For example if I go to the bootcamp, can't find a coding job, but 2 years later luck into a sales job that pays 40K a year, I'm paying that 15%.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
That is going to be on an individual basis. You can apply for an entry level position with a resume that says "Voted Most likely to hangglide in high school" and "Shaved roast beef with precision at Arby's for six months" or you can put those AND "Attended Modern Labor Development Bootcamp" and reference the 15-20 production projects you contributed to and show examples of your work.
Your comparison doesn't make sense. If someone, who is applying for a tech job, includes anything else but tech related experiences in his/her resume, then the person is very likely not to be selected. This is a known way of presenting your resume -- show only relevant experiences to the job applied. Though, this also enable another issue where people exaggerate their experiences/skills to look better than their real ones.
You can self study or you can do Khan's but a boot camp which includes actual inbound for profit tasks is probably going to be more efficient.
That is not the case here, at least for now. From TFA -- "Although people enrolled in Modern Labor’s income sharing agreement are not working on projects that directly benefit the company or its clients, Larson said, the company isn’t ruling that out for the future." The projects/tasks that they have been on may or may not be as good as they attempt to advertise. They don't disclose them in detail for now, so I can't say anything more about it.
To me, the overall looks good, but that is the whole marketing ploy of this type of TFA -- advertising. Everything they have in TFA is all about advantages of itself over others (including traditional way). There would never be any real disadvantages to join the company. From what I see, the company just hopes that it will become something like a training facilities for other tech companies in the future (a business type that no one yet is successful).
Well, it is still new, so people don't really see what can go wrong in the future (which it will). One thing I already see that it could be a big problem in the future is that they aren't teaching about a correct concept to solve a problem but rather how to copy-and-paste working codes. Most anyone can code, but that doesn't mean the code quality (including the way to solve a problem) would be the same...
15% of $70,000 for 2 years is $21,000. Is that really so bad?
I'm seriously asking here, because I have no idea how that compares to taking out and then repaying a loan. But you seem to think it a bad idea, so surely you already have the required numbers at hand?
But Candidate 2 you need to actually keep happy. Candidate 1 has that college loan to repay so they can't just quit on a whim, they need to consider how they will continue paying that loan.
It is worse than that. TFA isn't clear, but it looks like they pay you $2000 per month, yet you are still responsible for paying tuition that exceeds that.
I don't see anything in TFS, TFA, or on the Modern Labor website that says there is any tuition fee.
Since these are "online" courses, their net cost to educate you is near zero.
The fine website talks about being assigned projects under the leadership of a project manager, with code reviews. This is not "near zero" cost.
You donâ(TM)t pay tuition ever itâ(TM)s a stipend they pay you for you to be able to give your time and energy to study study study!! They are investing in the person so obviously as a new company investors want a return on investment. I am in the cohort currently. I am also helping to make the program even better for future cohorts through feedback and suggestions from my own experience and so are the other two people currently in the first cohort.
Hello, it is me Courtney the vlogger I was commenting on someone elseâ(TM)s misinformation but saw this just wanted to say the 30 hours is all you have to do but they want you to go at your own pace so some people will want to use more time and move at a slower pace it has never been needed to do more but all three of us are working on different things some days and we help each other move along with tips that work for each other. I totally appreciate you sharing the knowledge !!! -Courtney Angotti Aka Courtney tech
We do not copy paste codes not sure where this information is from? You do not learn to code without a little struggle and doing your own research that is what we are doing there is less hand holding than my previous front end bootcamp I attended. Feel free to pose these questions on my Courtney tech vlog and ask someone whoâ(TM)s in the program. I will answer to the best of my ability. I keep everything 100 and I also ask my boss to share his input before I answer :) thanks
Courtney tech
Courtney Angotti
I tried to answer this already sorry if itâ(TM)s double postðY(TM) but this is actually incorrect. We do not have to ever go over 30 hours is available so you may take your time learning without pressure itâ(TM)s at your own pace. We are all three doing slightly different things on daily basis but close to the same place on our own. If you have any questions from someone in the program please ask on my vlog ! Courtney tech / Courtney Angotti
There is no tuition . This is just to help you focus on studying and not working 40 hours while trying to immerse yourself in program itâ(TM)s proven quite helpful for me . -Courtney tech Courtney Angotti cohort #1
"Your comparison doesn't make sense. If someone, who is applying for a tech job, includes anything else but tech related experiences in his/her resume, then the person is very likely not to be selected. This is a known way of presenting your resume -- show only relevant experiences to the job applied."
And what precisely is it that you expect to be present on the resume of a person applying for their first tech job? There are no previous experiences to list and it is insane to claim there are labor shortages if you are refusing to hire people into entry level that don't have any. Everyone has to start somewhere.
You can't submit a blank piece of paper so you put whatever separates you from everyone else applying for their first tech job. Whatever minor job you held to show early maturity and work ethic, geeky hobbies/extracurriculars, etc. The claim you've self-studied is nice and sets you apart if true but the company won't know how true it is until some point after hiring so you won't get interviewed on the basis of that claim.
Informal education like this essentially counts as self-study to most employers anyway but at least at the end of this camp you'd have actual experience to list on you resume.
skills - do they teach anything that will be relevant three years after you graduate?
Then pay for your education upfront. This isn't a bad deal for someone who has no money. Investors expect to make a profit. Hell, all college is is an investment in your education. You fork over huge sums of money and hope that later you'll get a job that pays well enough to make it a worthwhile investment. This removes the gamble for YOU. If you get a shitty job, they'll lose a ton of money..
If you think for a second that your name will be on whatever you've coded up for them, you're a fool.
What is your point? If you're an employee of XYZ corp, you don't get to have your name on the product either. Work for hire is owned by the company cutting the paychecks. Sure you might end up in the credits, but Activision is under no obligation to do so. If you're going to a school, that you are being PAID to attend, you're an employee, Jack..
Ignore the WORK FOR HIRE. I dunno why I typed that.. I meant "Work done while under employment". Just had an argument with another person regarding independent contractors and I think my brain is still there.
What is very sketchy to me is the 30hr [per week] minimum.
Might that have something to do with a threshold in the US Affordable Care Act or some other labor law?
#2 has shown he can learn on his own, without needing babysitting.
#2 hasn't shown that he can learn industry best practices for quality control or security. Instead of a full stack developer, you get a full Stack Overflow developer who is more skilled at using the clipboard than anything else.
If someone, who is applying for a tech job, includes anything else but tech related experiences in his/her resume, then the person is very likely not to be selected. This is a known way of presenting your resume -- show only relevant experiences to the job applied.
Unless the employer specifies otherwise in the job posting. I've seen a few employers that explicitly require candidates to explain all gaps in the candidate's employment history since high school graduation.
That testing for psychopathy and narcissism, a bit costly but hey a few hundred dollar test versus ten even hundreds of thousands of dollars (be it stolen proprietary data, stolen company property, in office conflicts and fights or simply primitive sexual assaults, that test will reduce those risk a lot, seriously well worth the investment).
Autism spectrum disorder used to be called "autistic psychopathy". How do autistic candidates score on the "psychopathy" scale that you use? I imagine that the leaders of an employer or employment agency don't want it to end up the target of a disability discrimination lawsuit.
If you find that you've fully specified what the software you're building is supposed to do, you might have also just finished implementing it.
If for some reason that is not true, you should stop everything and write a code generator that accepts your specification as input.
I'd be interested to see a proof of concept that automatically translates ISO's international standard for the C language and the datasheet of the Intel 80386 CPU into a working C compiler.
How do people raised in cities where the market is "quite chilly" find the money to move to cities where it "is quite hot"?