Slashdot Mirror


More Colleges Try Forgoing Tuition For A Percentage of Future Income (yahoo.com)

"Some innovative colleges, in partnership with private investors and a small number of philanthropies, are experimenting with a new financing model called 'income share agreements' or 'ISAs,'" reports Yahoo Finance: With an ISA, instead of assuming a fixed debt obligation, students simply agree to pay an affordable percentage of their future income over a set time period, subject to an overall cap. High earners will have larger payments than low earners, but all will have an affordable payment, based on what they will actually be making. Importantly, when the college is providing some or all of the funding for the ISA, its return will be aligned with its students' post-college earnings, giving it economic incentives to make sure its students both graduate and find jobs. The college is, literally, invested in its students' success...

With ISAs, there is no principal or interest. Thus, they are much better suited for low income students as their financial obligations never exceed their ability to pay... In a recent paper commissioned by the Manhattan Institute, we looked at the small but growing number of colleges and universities offering ISA programs. Indiana's Purdue University launched the first such program in 2016. About a dozen other institutions have now followed suit, including Lackawanna College in Pennsylvania, Clarkson University in New York, and the University of Utah. Most of these pioneers offer ISAs to students as an alternative to non-subsidized federal loans, though a few are offering them as a complete substitute for borrowing... A common feature of all these ISA programs is that they require payments only when the graduate meets a certain income threshold. All impose time limits and caps on the total amount that needs to be repaid, though they differ widely in where they set those caps and limits.

28 of 180 comments (clear)

  1. Sounds good by Kokuyo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If someone's success depends on your success, chances are they're going to help you actually succeed.

    Let's see how this works out.

    1. Re:Sounds good by Freischutz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If someone's success depends on your success, chances are they're going to help you actually succeed.

      Let's see how this works out.

      Your (financial) success (as a business) depending on the success of your graduates is a principle that should be applied to all for-profit schools because currently their business model seems to be to trick students into life long debt slavery in return for a truly useless bargain basement education.

    2. Re:Sounds good by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This has been happening in the UK for a couple of decades, basically a loan that you only repay once you are earning. I am still paying mine off.

      A lot of people are headed for having it written off due to not earning enough in the 25 year time limit. There is also the issue of people going overseas and not paying it back.

      It used to be a good deal when the interest rates were fixed at a low level, but now it's not nearly as attractive.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:Sounds good by idji · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is similar to HECS (Higher Education Contribution Scheme), how Australians have payed for University since 1991, and payed back through taxes after you start earning.
      What is interestingly different here is that those with better paying jobs pay more under ISA, and that could lead to discrimination against students who are studying courses that pay less in jobs.
      https://www.studyassist.gov.au...

    4. Re:Sounds good by Kokuyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But that is a good thing, isn't it? Either those types of jobs are needed so it behooves employers to pay accordingly or they are not and it makes little sense to waste a human mind to it.

    5. Re:Sounds good by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There are some big questions to this.
      I got my masters degree from an another school then my undergrad degree. Who is to say how much of my salary is from my undergrad education and how much from my masters.

      A student after a year or two determines that they don’t like that school and switch. Or fail out and one they matured they went to an other school.

      Or the cases of the Billionaire college dropouts like Bill Gates, who realized they could make more money with their own business then wasting more time at school.

      This method is hiding the fact the College Education is too expensive and a way to make college administrators lives easier by not finding area to save money. Such as not keeping on building new building but utilizing the space they have.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    6. Re:Sounds good by Mr.+Dollar+Ton · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It really isn't. It is propagating a very well-known market failure, which tax-funded research is supposed to rectify. Fundamental science is, for example, a field that is traditionally underfunded by the markets and the reason is that the returns from understanding basic physics are very small in the short run, although nearly immeasurable in the long term, so the "investment" and pay are very low.

      If you validate this with your funding scheme, you're doing the opposite of what you should.

    7. Re:Sounds good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "trick students into life long debt slavery" - not living beyond your means and simple math... if you can't do both your not smart enough for the watered down courses that pass as 'university' now days

      Sounds like someone is either a shill from for-profit, naive, or an AH. What GP said is talking about many for-profit universities (e.g. DeVry, UoF, etc.) that don't care about their students' future but rather the number of enrollment. The more they can enroll, the more money they will get from the government. They don't care whether these students will graduate and become successful in life. The drop out from this type of universities is way higher than any public universities (including well-known private universities).

      The trick part is from getting people enrolled. Their recruiters sell dreams to those who aren't capable of looking far ahead in their lives -- average people. There are a lot more average people than you think. I know you are above average, so please stop using yourself as a standard (the motto "if I can do it, you can too").

      This has NOTHING to do with living beyond their mean.

    8. Re:Sounds good by parkinglot777 · · Score: 4, Informative

      It is bad as you said in the UK, but it is a different type of loan compared to this ISA. The ISA loan has fixed terms that has nothing to do with interest. The main term is to pay back at a certain percentage of the current annual income for a fixed period of time. As a result, the eligible amount loan will depend on the possible minimum annual salary after graduation from a selected program. There could be some more additional terms, such as the loaner may not need to pay back at all after not being able to find a job for a certain continuous period of time, there is a cap for the total pay back and the loaner can stop paying once the pay back hits the cap, etc.

      Besides, the issue about going out of the country and not paying back is not likely to be in the U.S. Europeans can easily leave their home country and go to work in another European countries. As a result, these people don't pay taxes back to their home country (and not paying back the student loan because no income shows up in the home country). In the U.S., people simply move to another state. However, the loan system covers the whole nation, so it is not likely to be a major issue.

      Your example is legit, but it doesn't apply to the type of loan (ISA) and the boundary in the U.S.

    9. Re:Sounds good by Immerman · · Score: 2

      You mean so that the lower classes can't afford an education?

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    10. Re:Sounds good by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I disagree. The problem is that parents don't raise their kids to be financially independent at the age of 18, to the point where they would be concerned about taking on the loans. It doesn't matter if you wise up by the age of 22, you're pretty much a slave at that point. The other problem is that a college degree has been mythologized as a road to financial success, to the point that colleges (and public schools) sell the myth, and parents (affecting mostly the poor) enable their kids to become debt slaves.

      The Congress and the banks have basically made student loans a predatory industry, along with "payday" style cash loans.

      When I look at the "value" of a college degree, I look at teachers as a canary test. They have to be highly educated to take on such a career (in NY), and what's their financial status? They're living paycheck to paycheck, can barely afford to live in the region, and are worried they won't have enough money to help put their kids through "state college" *and* their retirement (and keep property, for those who have it).

      Its especially crazy to think this status quo can be maintained when AI will eventually cut into much of the entry level jobs on the professional level. Forget the truck drivers (although they're screwed if they were counting on a career), computer systems are already reducing head counts in paralegal and lawyers at large firms, and shocker, medicine is basically a pattern matching machine to determine diagnosis, and follows a protocol to address the diagnosis. You don't need a doctor's education, who is able to piece together exceptional situations that require going "off book", for 90% of people's ailments. Computers are going to wipe out professional entry level jobs the way that it wiped out the bookkeeping industry before the 1980s.

      --
      There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
    11. Re:Sounds good by Gavagai80 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Money does not equal success. This will simply lead to pressuring students into more lucrative majors while completely neglecting the rest of the university. Might as well just open a trade school.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    12. Re:Sounds good by Gavagai80 · · Score: 2

      You think it's a good thing for everybody in the world to become an investment banker or similar economic parasite, and everything else (such as actually making things, researching or teaching) is a waste because it pays less?

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    13. Re:Sounds good by Immerman · · Score: 2

      >Current student debt issuers would have the same incentive after all

      Not even remotely. Get a degree and be totally unable to find a job, and you're expected to pay off your student loan just the same as if you were making $1M/year. The debt issuers would surely rather you got a job that let you pay them off in a timely fashion - but as you pointed out, their preferential treatment means they'll probably get paid eventually no matter what. They have nothing to gain if you get a great job versus a mediocre one, and very little to lose if you get a lousy one.

      Also, they're not really in a position to actually help you get a good education, or a good job.

      Contrast that to a university that gets say 10% of your paycheck for the next 10 years. Get a $20k job, they make $20k total. Get a $100k job, they get back $100k total. Fail to find a job, they get nothing. That's some potent incentive to make sure you're actually qualified for $100k job, and to use their resources and connections to help you actually get the job, and negotiate as high a salary as possible.

      Especially valuable assistance for first generation college graduates, whose families are unlikely to have the connections or experience to effectively navigate the white-collar job market.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    14. Re:Sounds good by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The Arts. English, writing, these are all needed for a healthy society.

      Motivating college to focus only on high paying career fields means things that make life beautiful will be forgotten.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  2. ISA = Indentured Servitude Agreement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    this space intentionally left blank

  3. The exploding cost of education by tinkerton · · Score: 4, Informative

    This article has a telling graph of how education has been moving out of reach for a large part of the US population
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news...

    While some technological things have become much cheaper the relative cost of education has increased manifold.

    the student loan crisis is then just one aspect of this problem. It's the tip of the iceberg. I still see people focusing on the 'leeches' , people somehow abusing student loans. I'm sure that happens, but using such examples to represent the situation is entirely wrong. As is the solution which is presented in the article on here. The leeches are on the other side. They're the people getting rich off this.

    1. Re:The exploding cost of education by tinkerton · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Looking at averages also underestimates the seriousness of the problem because it disregards the distribution of income.
      When average income rises but mainly goes to a small minority, then the majority can actually have a lower income and they are even worse off.

    2. Re:The exploding cost of education by guruevi · · Score: 2

      The government backing loans always leads to a bubble. Houses were increasing prices beyond their value due to banks having to give out loans at gunpoint to people that weren't qualified in the name of equality and social justice for all.

      Same is happening in schools, government is forcing massive debt on the economy by forcing loans for people that don't qualify (either by intelligence or degree) and don't have the means to repay it. The colleges just want to collect the money since they're not holding the bag and they keep people going for years collecting money from the bank instead of telling them their dance theory degree won't help them get a job and banks are just going to get bailed out anyway.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  4. Re:Could this be the end of Liberal Arts programs? by TimothyHollins · · Score: 3, Funny

    It depends on what Humanities degree you have. The women's studies majors generally get the lowest tips.

  5. I predict a short run by TimothyHollins · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This model will collapse when companies start offering a low salary for the agreed upon time period with a giant bonus to come after. It will also incentivize graduates to take low-income positions for the first few years (which may not be a bad thing for the graduates, but it will hurt the ISA programme). Unless subsidized, this programme will not be financially viable.

    People will always take the best approach for themselves, and companies will be more than happy to capitalize on that. Paying out a large bonus after X years is much better for the company; 40k for 3 years + a 45k bonus is better than 60k for 3 years for the company and guarantees a 3 year employee retention. The graduate that can be paid less at decent retention is more appealing than the graduate that wants a full salary right away and might leave at any moment for better opportunities.

    1. Re:I predict a short run by bugs2squash · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The model will die because if it fails early it just plain fails and if it is successful early on there will be colleges with a long term income stream ahead and current running costs, so they will be bought out by asset strippers who will keep the income and gut the rest of the university.

      --
      Nullius in verba
    2. Re:I predict a short run by GrumpySteen · · Score: 2

      For the sake of argument, let's say that 20% is the affordable percentage mentioned in the article. Your basic assumption here is that people would rather make $32k (80% of $40k) per year rather than $80k (80% of 100k) per year.

      By all means, show us this huge group of people would would rather make $32k/year rather than $80k/year and explain how they rationalize this as being "the best approach for themselves."

  6. Burn These Predatory Institutions to the Ground by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They want to make you a wage slave, no better than perpetual leasing on a car. Sounds good because the human mind thinks monthly

    Everything the Government gets into gets more expensive. Housing in the 1930s from Fannie Mae Freddie Mac because "everyone should be a homeowner". Student tuition from WW2 on (GI Bill, and then student loans). Medicine from the late 1960s on (Medicare, Medicaid from LBJ's great society.)

    What basically happens is all this government credit inflates what people can pay monthly upfront. And where there is an inflation of credit, there's an inflation of rising cost. Imagine you gave every American a govt sponsored credit card with a million $ credit line. First, over half the people would have absolutely no self-control and would go bust. On the flip side, with all this credit swamping the market, inflation would be through the roof. Well same fucking thing here.

    That's why we have textbooks that ought to cost $30 going into the hundreds with a few sentences swapped as an "upgrade" every year. That's why tuition keeps going up, up, up when the average student's major needs no more major equipment than they did from the 1950s. That's why we need more competition in accreditation, less state barrier with credits, and accreditation should mandate transfer of credits. It's like we gave the big guys all the benefits of subsidies of the EU, but the people have none of the benefits (migration of labor vs migration of capital, etc). We're a fucking joke.

    Now they're coming for your livelihood perpetually. You know why this sucks? Many college educated people get jobs with absolutely no connection to their degree. And don't think they'll won't take a slice of that too.

    For most people with a middle of the road career not expecting to be a STEM superstar, go to Europe, find a apprenticeship that will actually pay you (very minimum) and get actual job skills rather than learn about Shakespeare and other tired tangent bullshit for years on end. College wasn't about work in the beginning, it was about enlightened learning, but that don't mean squat in the job market and is a poor fit despite being sold as the "dream". The only dream here is that's it's a good value for 90% of people. Give it the finger and don't let it enslave you.

  7. Re:This is how it's gonna work by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

    The job's created are not as many as the jobs destroyed

    ...for the same amount of the same product produced.

    We either consume more (e.g. at a point, carriages and horses were for rich folk and regular people walked or road donkeys; cars are now a commodity) or we consume other things (e.g. we no longer spend 40% of our income on food, so we can buy iPhones).

    allows them to have a greater part of a shrinking pie.

    The size of the pie out there per individual person is getting bigger.

    The hot-blast furnace allowed 200 workers to produce, in the same hours worked per worker, what 86,000 workers once produced in iron ingots. The wooden shipping pallet eliminated 85% of dock worker labor to ship the same goods. Pneumatic power tools. Computers. Intensive agriculture.

    Because we don't have 98% of our workers laboring 16-hour days 100 hours per week on farms and at loading docks, we can make all this stuff. Those workers make tons of other things--many of them are doctors and nurses, researchers, engineers, computer programmers.

  8. Distopian BS by geekoid · · Score: 2

    "Learn today, pay forever"

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  9. indentured servitude by susanjane · · Score: 2

    Indentured servitude is unconstitutional.

  10. ...but here is why it will not work by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I agree that there are a lot of attractive things about ISA's but they have a fundamental flaw that will prevent them from working: they are voluntary. Students ending high-earning degrees like medicine, law, science and engineering where they are reasonably certain that they will have significant earning potential will be far worse off financially signing up for an ISA vs a regular loan. Since loans will certainly be available to these students why would any of them sign up for an ISA which will cost them far more?

    The result is that the high income students will sign up for loans and so the ISAs will only attract low income students making them financially unfeasible because they will have lost their upside.

    The only way to make this work is to have ISAs compulsory for all students...but we already have a system exactly like that called income tax which is how University education always used to be funded. So how about we go back to that and then when high earners end up paying higher tax rates they will at least know that they benefitted from those taxes when they were a student and so perhaps they may object to them - and try to avoid them - a bit less than they do now?