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Tesla, Panasonic Are Freezing Plans To Add More Battery Production Lines At Gigafactory (techcrunch.com)
Tesla and Panasonic are reportedly freezing their plans to add more battery production lines at Gigafactory 1, its massive factory outside of Reno, Nevada that is a cornerstone to the automaker's business. "The partners had planned to increase capacity by 50 percent next year, but financial problems have forced a rethink," reports TechCrunch, citing a report from Nikkei. "Nikkei also reported that Panasonic was suspending a planned investment in Tesla's automotive battery and EV plant in Shanghai." From the report: TechCrunch confirmed that Tesla is not adding more battery production lines and will instead focus its efforts on existing equipment. Tesla stressed that it will continue to make new investments as needed into the plant. However, the automaker noted that attention and investments might be focused on improving existing equipment to increase battery cell output.
As of November, Panasonic had 11 production lines operating at Gigafactory 1. Panasonic president President Kazuhiro Tsuga told Bloomberg that the company planned to add two more lines by the end of the year to bring total capacity up to 35 gigawatt-hours. The last number shared by Tesla is from July when the company reported an annualized run rate of 20 gigawatt-hours of capacity. It's not clear if those two production lines were added. "We will of course continue to make new investments in Gigafactory 1, as needed. However, we think there is far more output to be gained from improving existing production equipment than was previously estimated," a Tesla spokesperson wrote in an emailed statement.
As of November, Panasonic had 11 production lines operating at Gigafactory 1. Panasonic president President Kazuhiro Tsuga told Bloomberg that the company planned to add two more lines by the end of the year to bring total capacity up to 35 gigawatt-hours. The last number shared by Tesla is from July when the company reported an annualized run rate of 20 gigawatt-hours of capacity. It's not clear if those two production lines were added. "We will of course continue to make new investments in Gigafactory 1, as needed. However, we think there is far more output to be gained from improving existing production equipment than was previously estimated," a Tesla spokesperson wrote in an emailed statement.
I could've sworn I read several articles when Gigafactory was first announced that the intermediate and long-term goal for the factory was to pump out high-capacity batteries that would let residential and commercial solar users finally get off the grid permanently, with short-term production more geared toward electric car use.
Panasonic ended up downgrading the demand from companies making electric cars.
But it's not like the demand for electric cars is getting any lower, interest is steadily climbing...
So even though Tesla loses some money from Panasonic, it probably is an indicator they have even a larger leg up on the electric car market than previously thought as car makers struggle to get near what Tesla is doing at scale.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
1) Non tech-news at all. 2) boring as hell
Good grief, Batteries are the ultimate tech news!
If there was a BatteryDot I'd read that more often than SlashDot...
Our world depends so much on batteries these days...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
the intermediate and long-term goal for the factory was to pump out high-capacity batteries that would let residential and commercial solar users finally get off the grid permanently
The PowerWall is available already. And they have been used in large installations as well, in Australia and other places.
I've thought about getting one just for backup power for the house but it really makes more sense with a solar system, just waiting to see if solar shingles work out long term or what as I would prefer that form factor...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
No, that's spin. You're making this really complicated, but in business often the simplest answer is the correct one.
Tesla's car deliveries in Q1 tanked. A week later, Panasonic decides investing more in growing Tesla's capacity isn't really necessary. It's pretty clear what happened: Panasonic is worried Tesla can't deliver any more, and when Tesla did deliver Panasonic lost money. They're seeing it as a losing partnership and are backing out.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/04/panasonic-stops-investing-in-tesla-gigafactories-as-sales-slump/
... boring as hell...
No, that would be this one https://www.boringcompany.com/
Volumetric density still matters somewhat because that determines costs for housing, connections & cooling. Also, at the moment, lithium ion has one of the highest round-trip efficiencies.
Lithium ion also has one of the highest potentials per cell so getting enough voltage to convert efficiently takes fewer cells, which also helps lower costs. And a major issue in utility needs is rapidly responding to loads and lithium batteries can easily do this.
In long run for longer term storage past a few hours, e.g. days or weeks of energy, we will need big flow batteries which decouple power from energy capacity.
For utility applications, maybe Aluminium-ion may prove less costly. Power isn't as good as lithium ion but may end up cheaper.
The cost of lithium ion batteries is to a major degree the nickel and cobalt. There's no fundamental physical necessity that those elements are used in batteries.
The initial plan was to produce 35GW when the Gigafactory 1 is finished. Right now the plant is far from finished, with only a fraction of the whole building built, and yet it is expected to reach 35GW this year and when finished to be at 3 times the originaly planned capacity - at 105GW, and on top of that to have enough space to produce battery packs for model 3 and soon Y, S and X, without expanding the plant size. All this is happening because of advancements in production efficiency and battery power density. So it's not surprising Tesla chose to optimize efficiency and density instead of adding new lines. Their recent purchase of Maxwell Technologies is also an indication of that. I don't get why everybody is acting surprised and spells doom and gloom.
I'd hardly call more than 100% year-over-year growth "tanking". Most companies would LOVE to fail that hard. Yes, they missed Street estimates because of logistics problems overseas, but it happens. It definitely is not an indication of soft demand, as you seem to be implying.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Q2 Tesla deliveries are going to be even worse, with Jaguar and Mercedes offering luxury electric vehicles that actually go through some form of QC before they're sold to the public.
I know jack about Jags, but Mercedes is just another car. Has been ever since the 1990s. 1991 is the last time they overbuilt a car. Unless you're buying a UNIMOG, a Mercedes isn't any more reliable than anything else.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
with Jaguar and Mercedes offering luxury electric vehicles
What have *luxury* electric vehicles have to do with Tesla sales when Tesla is headed for mostly selling a consumer car? Do you think the people who want a Model 3 will buy a Jaguar instead? In what alternate reality?
Ezekiel 23:20
He said boring AS hell, not boring TO hell.
> a Mercedes isn't any more reliable than anything else.
Unfortunately, that's a sentiment shared by many current E-class owners.
The cost-and-corner-cutting is real on these, too.
The EQC will be much "nicer" than a Tesla, for sure - but range remains a concern, as well as price and availability.
Also, no frunk and a smaller trunk apparently, compared to a Model X. And less range, less efficiency.
Compared to a five year old car.
I'm somewhat ready to pull the trigger on an E-class - but I'm also thinking of holding out yet another year or even two and wait for Model Y - or whatever is available then that has some sort of trunk comparable to an E-class.
Teslas, at least until now, have a reputation of being somewhat easier to maintain.
Though, TBH, there is great concern about the viability of a Tesla as a daily driver because if it needs repair, it can take a long while to get parts and you don't always get loaners.
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
Jaguar are not known for their reliability either. Never have been. They have a luxury sporty brand, and to be fair the i-Pace is very nice. Horribly inefficient but it drives very well and is built to a way higher standard than anything Tesla produce, but if it's anything like their ICE cars then reliability will be just average and repairs will be extremely expensive.
Jaguar do over-the-air software updates too, meaning your car is forever in beta and half of it barely works. Their autopilot systems is pretty janky, for example.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Tesla has been heading toward a consumer car since it's inception.
So far, there's zero sign of them getting there. Model 3 was their attempt at making such a failure, and it ended up a luxury vehicle in terms of cost. They'll obviously keep on trying, but with failure of model 3 in this regard new try is unlikely for at least half a decade.
Except the $35k M3 is never going to happen, which is why Tesla is doing everything in their power to keep people from trying to buy them. They can't sell them profitably at $35k, but they're desperate for cash which is why you can now "lease" one, except it's more like renting one because you have no option to buy at the end of the term. Tesla just wants those sweet customer deposits because they have a ton of inventory sitting around not making them any money.
You don't have to compare the high end models to Tesla, you can also look towards Hyundai's new ones coming out. Either way, all cars made my people who know how to make cars, and not built in a tent.
How many fanboys on here are willing to put their money where their mouth is? I'll be buying puts shortly before the Q2 delivery numbers are released.
It said "Jaguar" and "Mercedes", not "Hyundai", though. In any case, your speculation as to what Tesla can or can't sell profitably is pointless, unless you work for their management. And how is something "not going to happen" that has already happened?
Ezekiel 23:20
>> Model 3 is like a fucking Lada Granta on the inside.
No.
aaaaaaa