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Overtime Complaints? China's JD.com Boss Criticizes 'Slackers' (reuters.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the quitting-times dept.

An anonymous reader quotes Reuters: Richard Liu, the founder of Chinese e-commerce giant JD.com Inc, has weighed in on an ongoing debate about the Chinese tech industry's grueling overtime work culture, lamenting that years of growth had increased the number of "slackers" in his firm who are not his "brothers...." Liu, who started the company that would become JD.com in 1998, in the note spoke about how in the firm's earliest days he would set his alarm clock to wake him up every two hours to ensure he could offer his customers 24-hour service -- a step he said was crucial to JD's success...

The '996' work schedule, which refers to a 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. workday, six days a week, has in particular become the target of online debate and protests on some coding platforms, where workers have swapped examples of excessive overtime demands at some firms. Liu said JD did not force its staff to work the "996" or even a "995" overtime schedule. "But every person must have the desire to push oneself to the limit!" he said.
JD disputed reports that the company would be cutting up to 8% of its workforce, but did say "We're getting back to those roots as we seek, develop and reward staff who share the same hunger and values... JD.com is a competitive workplace that rewards initiative and hard work, which is consistent with our entrepreneurial roots."

JD's investors include Walmart and Google.

11 of 180 comments (clear)

  1. Really! by Mikkeles · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The guy who makes big bucks on the backs of his workers is upset that they want a life. How unexpected!

    --
    Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
    1. Re:Really! by Spazmania · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you're a hard worker who cares about your work, you will work some overtime. It's inevitable. BUT, if your work routinely can't be completed unless you work overtime then your boss is doing a poor job. He's supposed to hire and retain enough qualified people to do the work and he's suppose to reject work that exceeds his staff's limit.

      That's really hard to do but doing it successfully is why he gets the big bucks. If he's not successful at it, he doesn't deserve the big bucks.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    2. Re: Really! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That caricature exists for a reason. Labor movements in the US lead the country into prosperity. While an individual business owner can benefit in the short term from working his laborers to the bone, the systemically the economy suffers because they are too busy working to buy stuff, eventually get sick, their acquired skills go to waste due to death and sickness, and they're a drain on the healthcare system.

    3. Re:Really! by JMJimmy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Since he wants them to put in the same level of work as him, they should receive an equal reward should they not? Somehow I doubt he'll profit share.

    4. Re:Really! by Spazmania · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Are you a boss? Do you supervise other employees? If you don't then you don't know. You underestimate the difficulty of work you haven't performed.

      Me, I tried being the boss a couple of times. It's hard! You can't get qualified people when you need them. You're lucky if you can get qualified people before you need them when it's hard to justify the expense. And you can't keep them. They move on when they're ready.

      Hiring a bunch of juniors is a disaster, especially smart juniors. They don't know what they don't know but enough of them together convince themselves that they do. Easy way to lose your seniors is to hire more juniors than the seniors can ride herd on.

      Meanwhile the big boss never wants to hear that he can't do what he wants to do because you can't hire enough staff to make it happen... not even if you pay more because there just aren't enough competent people in the field looking.

      So here's a lesson: don't tell the other guy how easy his job is. You don't know, he knows you don't know and to him you just look like a fool.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    5. Re:Really! by Spazmania · · Score: 4, Informative

      Work smarter not harder applies to managers too. If you lead by staying late all the time, you're doing it wrong.

      --
      Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
  2. If he rewards them like he was rewarded... by clawsoon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If he's willing to rewards the employees who work just as hard as he did by making them a billionaire just like him, I'm all for it!

    Wait, what, you're telling me that he's not?? I'm shocked, truly shocked.

  3. Screw that ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Liu said JD did not force its staff to work the "996" or even a "995" overtime schedule. "But every person must have the desire to push oneself to the limit!" he said.

    Sorry, and fuck you to all employers who feel the same.

    You are my employer, I have no interest in pushing myself to the limit to make you rich ... especially since you will not once demonstrate any loyalty to me.

    Companies seem to think we're all going to dedicate our lives and energies to them, but they can and will toss us aside as soon as it's convenient.

    Sorry, no. Fuck you. I'll work my contracted number of hours, and little more. I don't work time I'm not being paid for, and I sure as fuck don't prioritize the company over myself.

    Employers need to understand they get only so much of our lives, and the rest they don't get any of.

    It's not my job to 'invest' in my employer, and I definitely am past feeling like I have to put in extra effort so "we" can succeed ... sorry management succeeds, the stock holders succeed, but some how I don't see a fucking thing out of it.

    Which means I'm not busting my balls to make management get their bonuses, when the rest of us aren't even getting raises to cover the cost of living.

  4. I've said it before by Sqreater · · Score: 5, Funny

    What China needs is a communist revolution against the abusive capitalists.

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    E Proelio Veritas.
  5. He could be right and wrong a the same time by melted · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've been in the industry for 20 years, and I have not yet seen a programmer that can fit more than a few hours of real, actual, focused work in any given day. The rest is just filler like meetings, bullshitting on slack, goofing off on Reddit or something else. I don't think the Chinese are any different. So most (or all) of this insane overtime likely also consists of filler. Under the definition that you have to spend all 8 hours of your workday actually doing work, we're more or less all "slackers".

    Where he's wrong, though, is I can pretty much guarantee you they're less productive with this schedule than they would be with 40 hours a week. What's more, if they worked 40 hours or even less, they'd likely be more creative as well, and less resentful towards their workplace. Henry Ford established this to be true even for assembly line work a hundred years ago, and this is considerably more complicated and requires orders of magnitude more creativity than assembly line work.

  6. Re:Yeah, no. Only true for small businesses. by St.Creed · · Score: 5, Interesting

    My old boss used to say "if you work overtime, your planning was bad and it's your own damn fault. I never asked you to work overtime, I just asked for a realistic planning." It certainly taught me to plan better.

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    Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)