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Pentium III (Katmai) on Monday?
Charles Bronson writes
"This ZDNet article reports that Intel will be
unveiling the new Pentium III chip,
previously code-named "Katmai," on Monday. 'The Pentium III
will begin 450MHz and 500MHz...' No mention of price, of
course.. " My guess is you'll need to mortgage your home.
PC's should have a slide-out tray, like the CD rom, so you can reheat that grilled cheeze sandwitch. toasty...
but hey, upgrading the motherboard with each new CPU is so lucrative. can't wait till intel starts welding graphics onto the cpu..
For price the k6-3 will be better.
For speed the k7 will smoke this over priced PIII.
This is the one that has new registers to do parallel floating point calculations, right? It sounds nice anyway.
!
Considering Intel's criminal pricing of current P2's (i.e. not Celerons).. say AUS$1400 for a P2-450, the P3's will probably even harder to afford. I mean, do they really expect us to pay ludicrous amounts of money when price-comparable Alpha/Sun hardware is out there?
Do they really expect us NOT to overclock Celerons, so that we don't have to pay their pathetically inflated prices?
And as for you AMD fans, I'll say this -- AMD make great CPU's, but until they support SMP properly (i.e. APIC, not the useless OPENPIC) I guess I won't buy one.
Intel will give details of "the best kept secret in Silicon Valley."
So, they're shipping a Transmeta CPU?
um SGI is using intel too
The pricing is the things. This chip is really for gamers (and graphics professionals, but gaming is a much bigger market). But, I'm not going to spend $800 or even $500+ on a processor. And I'm a hardcore hobbiest. So, unless Intel keeps the prices down, how do they expect gamers who really want the technology to get it?
Basically, I bet it will take a year for this technology to be worthwhile (ie. games and apps support it, and chips are affordable for mid-range buyers)
Guess I might upgrade my 266 PII to an inexpensive 333 or a K6-3, in the meantime.
Any thoughts?
Celerons don't have SMP capabilities.
great, does this mean i can get an el-cheapo PII-450 in feb?
Cool Hand Lukes of the world, click here :-)
Hey, that's pretty funny!!
Do you mean how they're finally going to introduce a few more user registers?
Yes, Xeons are a real laugh!
6-10 more benchmarking points (pick one) than a PII of the same MHz rating (450) for $2700 CDN! Yay!
Please Intel, I'd love to be charged 3-4X the price for 4-6% performance! Yay!
Yes, Xeons are a real laugh!
6-10 more benchmarking points (pick one) than a PII of the same MHz rating (450) for $2700 CDN! Yay!
Please Intel, I'd love to be charged 3-4X the price for 4-6% more performance! Yay!
The problem with Intel's business model, is that Moore's law (as enforced by Intel) is going to inevitably make the hardware so fast that no one will be able to notice the difference between the latest chip and last year's model.
Already, even the bloat of Windows 2000 can't make a Pentium II-450 noticibly faster than an old Pentium Pro-200 system. It's going to get to the point where even the latest and greatest game can't take any better advantage of these CPUs.
Intel has always survived by getting a premium for the newest chips, and getting Compaq or Dell or whoever to hold the bag. Sooner or later the system vendors will get smart and start de-emphisizing the magic clock speed number and start selling features like more memory, firewire, etc.
(I know that some of you are running Photoshop filters all day, or trying to find the last digit of pi, or whatever, I'm talking the great unwashed masses here.)
Yes, they work vertically.
According to the Register, a 450Mhz Katmai will
cost less than a 450Mhz PII does now, so you will
not have to mortgage your house.
Gotta get one of these for my little girl!
Intel should have always advertised the economic benefits of selling a "hot" chip. Imagine what you can save on your heating bill!
Are Katmai Useless Instructions the only new feature?
Alpha's and PowerPC's have never looked better.
(GO SHEEPSHAVER!)
If I were Intel I would really hate what has happened to DRAM prices.
In the Win 3.1 days most people had 4MB of RAM. Everyone would say "my machine is so slow, I must get a faster one", when what they needed was some more RAM to stop it swapping. The faster machine was no better (unless its disk drive has a bit more pep), so they wanted the next speed increase.
By the time of Win 95 everything was still fine for Intel. Machines had 16MB of RAM, but Win95 used all of that, and the machines kept on swapping. People still wanted those magic MHz.
Finally, most machines now have lots of RAM. The users still don't understand, and look at that magic MHz figure, but the RAM is so cheap lots of it is being put in every machine. Now they finally run at a more respectable speed.
Intel's has two hopes for continuing that craving for MHz. First Microsoft can slow the next version of Windows down really badly (like they did with the Win95 UI). Secondly they can create a mass market for compute intensive applications like 3D - that's where the Katmai comes in. One of the better ways to create a thirst for powerful processors is to nurture compute intensive applications.
Pentium® II Xeon 450MHz with 1024KB cache retail boxed. 3 years warranty. Intel IASP
:)
Cost: $2398
Source: http://www.acmemicro.com
533MHz 21164A, PC164UX2
m/b w/2MB Cache with onboard
SCSI (SYMBIOS) and 10/100
Ethernet
128 MB ECC SDRAM DIMMs
4.5 GB SCSI-3 Hard Drive
6 PCI, 1 ISA Slots
32x SCSI-2 CD-ROM, Floppy
S3 TRIO Graphics 2MB
Keyboard/Mouse
REDHAT LINUX 5.2 and
Documentation
1 Year Manufacturer?s
Warranty
Cost: $2639
Source: http://www.lodgepole.com/
(Fancy that, the first place to show up on my search is a Linux VAR, whattayaknow
Does anybody else see a bit of a discrepency in pricing?
On a related rant...has anybody else out there noticed that the prices on Alpha-based machines went up rather suddenly after Compaq bought DEC?
I just got an price list from a distributor.
KATMAI 500MHZ 512K 100FSB 785 USD
450MHZ 512K 100FSB 565 USD
These are reseller prices.
HTTP/1.0 200 OK
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1999 07:02:17 GMT
Server: Apache/1.1.1
Content-type: text/html
Content-length: 231
Last-modified: Tue, 12 May 1998 23:16:33 GMT
!-- There are no secret messages in the source code to this web page. -->
!-- There are no tyops in this web page. -->
Not yet the Transmeta home page
This web page is not here yet.
Does anyone know if Intel has released any information on the new Katmai instructions? I seem to recall an MMX programmer's guide that was released before the MMX processors were available, and AMD has a decent book on its 3DNow! instructions, but I haven't been able to dig up much information on the Katmai/MMX2 instructions.
intel is scared of the k7. This is why they renamed the pentium2 with katmai to pentium3. There is no difference between the 2 chips besides the katmai instructions. hehehe
:-) ). Intel is a very paranoid company and the only microsoft is more paranoid. It really shows some time
I just want you people to know that unless your a gamer, the 2 chips wont have any difference in performance. I also assume that intel needed to make some money quickly for the lost revenue of low cost pc's. I can picture the intel marketing group right now. hmmm, I know what we can do! we can just rename our new pentium2 chips with katmai and call them pentium3's and sell them for 3,000 dollars each and then we can claim that the new k7 will be at the same level as pentium3 because they are all the same 7th generation of x86 chips. hehe
However I do hope that intel will kepp it cheap becasue I love games but the k7 with the new 200 mhz backbone should satisify my needs when its out. Also the k7 math co pressor is three times as fast as the pentium2 (opps I meant pentium3
Please dont fall for this.
www.tomshardware.com . This should explain the k7
The swapper in Windows is bad enough the way it is. Microsoft doesn't have to do anything to screw that up--it's already bad. Hitting swap with a half a gig of ram? HAHAHAHA!
No, you said that separate slots for the K7
and alpha would be needed. He said that
the K7 and alpha could possibly go in the
same slot.
I run a twin PII 450Mhz machine with the clocks very over run (a scalpel is a very useful tool)
And they dont get as hot as my graphics cards.
SGI has yet to release a machine with an Intel processor, as far as I am aware. The launch is supposed to happen January 11th, which is four days away. And I doubt the x86-based machines they are releasing then will replace stuff like the Onyx2 or Origin2000. They are planning to migrate to Intel processors, but they are nowhere close to actually completing that migration yet.
And the Crays will probably not go to an Intel architecture until Merced at the earliest.
From what I know, the Alpha was planning on using the higher bus-speed for the EV6 bus, and the K7 decided to stay at a 'safer' 200 MHz. This, however, makes for some rather interesting overclocking opportunities..
Well, our costs on Celeron 300A's has plunged to below $70, and we now have Celeron 366's in stock for more than $150 less than Pentium II 350's... does anybody else see a problem with this picture?!
(Note, though, that the PII-350 has a 100mhz system bus, while the Celeron 366 has a 66mhz system bus, so the PII-350 still outperforms the Celeron 366 by a slight amount... but $150 worth?!).
-- Eric
Send mail here if you want to reach me.
Where did you hear about a 200Mhz bus? Please post a URL. I've got a K6-2 300Mhz on a 100Mhz bus and it screams along at 599.65 Bogomips... schwwwwing!
:)
PS... I hope you're right!
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
" And as for you AMD fans, I'll say this -- AMD make great CPU's, but until they support SMP properly (i.e. APIC, not the useless OPENPIC) I guess I won't buy one."
APIC is not "properly supporting SMP," APIC is the -Intel- way of supporting SMP. OpenPIC and APIC each have their relative merits, and as interrupt routing goes, neither are exactly the best thing since sliced bread.
However, you can't blame AMD, Cyrix, etc for not being able to support Intel-proprietary features. OpenPIC boards -were- manufactured, but simply didn't sell because WNT didn't run on them. You can blame Intel for trying to cut it's competitors out of the "standards based" market by conveniently using the Wintel definition of standard.
Check out firingsquad.com's article about overclocking a Celeron 366 to 550 Mhz; it is faster than a PII overclocked to 500 Mhz. It only raised the chip's temperature ~4 degrees celsius. Zoom!
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
I don't need another Intel microwave/space heater.
I'm sticking with SGI/Sun equipment. Intel can go bugger.
"REAL" (read: mid-high end) SGI systems like the O2, Octane, Origin, Onyx and Challenge series will never use an Intel chip and I wouldn't want them to. These are the systems I was talking about when I said "I'd rather use SGI..."
The Merced is too little, too late. Yeah fine it's 64-bit. MIPS and Sparcs have been 64-bit for YEARS. Merced might be nice for future versions of NT, but again - I'd rather use an SGI/Sun running a real OS. Running NT faster is just that - same shit, running faster.
Of course, for Linux - Merced is nice. So is the Alpha. The PowerPC. The MIPS. So many options. Depending on the pricing of Merced, you might want to consider a more mature processor right off the bat - not to mention, like I said, maturity. Merced is a first generation chip in many senses. Will there be legacy instructions on it? Emulation? More crap to slow it down? How big are the caches? MIPS/Sparc CPUs have 4MB of cache on them, some of 'em.
The performance of the K-7 promises to be much better than that of the PII and PIII. Aside from the obvious advantage of using the ev6 bus, the K-7's will also have a much larger L1 and L2 cache. The multiple paralell pipelines for both integer and floating point operations will give the K-7 and performance boost in the area where it has always fell short.
And as has been said many times over... Swappable with an Alpha...
Unless Intel has done more than increase the clock-rate and improved the multimedia and 3D performance, there will be no comparison between the PIII and the K-7.
Potsy
AFAIK, there are no alpha chips which will fit into the k7 slot, and none have been announced. PII will fit in the slot, they just won't work. Also, there is no indication that the k7 mobos will have alpha-compatible buses. I don't think AMD and Compaq/Digital have any strategic alliance (other than AMD licensing the ev6 bus) so I doubt we'll see swappable k7/alpha boards (unless a board manufacture provides both a k7 slot and an alpha socket, and a compatible BIOS ;-)
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.
"Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, Memento Mori
Chas, I'm shocked that you of all people would be a Pro-Intel Chauvinist.
Anyway, it's just a matter of tradeoffs. At anything but fpu-intensive operations, the K6 competes favorable with P2s; in terms of price/performance, it wins hands-down. I don't really care if, by paying $300 more, I could get 10 more fps in Quake 2; since I don't have an extra $300 the K6 is my baby. (Or babies, since I've got 2.)
The way I see it, if I could afford a new Intel cpu I could also afford a not-quite-so-new Alpha. Or a BeBox. Or a G3.
Peter
K7 and alpha have the exact same bus. The question is whether there will be an alpha that is in a slot A physical package. Even if Compaq or Samsung doesn't make a Slot A part. Another manufacturer might make daughter cards that could mount an alpha in slot A, and then provide the BIOS update for various motherboards. No one knows exactl what will happen, but it shoudl still be interesting.
Let's see how far the P2 prices plunge.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
God. Not this tired old garbage again.
Hmmm. See a pattern here?
Also, since price hasn't been announced. Heck the STATS for the chip haven't been announced yet! How can you compare?
I'm getting sick of all these morons with their anti-Intel Chauvinism.
FACT:While the performance of the K6-2 and 3 lines are exceptional with the 3dNow instruction set supported, without it, the chip is a DOG. Plain, simple, straightforward. It's all about tradeoffs. With Intel you get better performace in absence of the gimmicks. Your tradeoff is a higher price-point.
Now I'll sit back and let a dozen people scream at me that I'm completely wrongheaded and get a bunch of anecdotal "evidence" to the contrary.
As the topic says, a lot of it fits the pattern of buyer's remorse (A bunch of people trying to convince themselves they got the best deal).
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Actually, the new instructions (MMX2) should work with the existing BX chipset, the processor is the same as a PII, but with the new instructions. you know, like the difference between the earlier Pentiums and the Pentiums with MMX...
To come out with an announcement before the previously intended Superbowl ads points to Intel being worried about AMDs K6-3 and K7s.
Guess they are finally feeling the heat. Still the articles "best kept secret" is laughable.
. * Did aliens forget to remove your anal probe?
I've read the specs for both chips and there really isn't any comparison between Katmai and Motorola's upcoming G4 chips. Katmai is essentially a fix to what Intel broke when they added MMX, with minimal additions. The biggest speed gains from Katmai machines will be from the subsystems, not from the instructions.
But I'm sure Intel will convince the masses that Katmai is the greatest thing since the 386.
p3 is 786, right? Septium sounds a lot cooler.
yet another over-priced Intel chip. I have read that newer Intel Katmai and Celery...err Celeron chips will be un-overclockable too. Lamers.
I'll put my money on AMD and IBM/Motorola PowerPC chips.
heh, I even read that the Katmai now does 4 FPU calculations at once now instead of just 1 in the PII...heh, just when Intel was going to catch up with the K6-2, AMD does it again by going to 16 FPU calculations per cycle...technically AMD will scorch the PIII...but we'll see the benchmarks and real-world results soon enough. As for PowerPC G3 and the upcoming G4's....they just flat out rule.
my $0.02
Great, I need something to melt the snow off the driveway!!
Yes, you can find information on the Merced and other microprocessor technologies at the award winning web site www.transmeta.com... As well as the unveiling of the new chip that Transmeta is working on... just re-arrange the letters of "this web page is not here yet" until you find something interesting -- now that's innovation!!!
Know ye not that ye are Gods???
problems like more crashing etc............