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DVD panel accepts Divx
Richard Silver writes "Looks like Circuit City threw enough money at Divx. The sales were good enough this fall to get them a spot on the DVD panel at the Consumer Electronics Show this week. Check out the article on Network Computing They even refer to DVD as "Open DVD" "
What, is Circuit City trying to corner the beverage coaster market?
and the comments gathered from people purchaseing
divix compatible players, it seems more like people don't want to throw their money at a product that may become unsupported.
Kind of like if you had bought a betamax player when they were brand new, and you had the choice to buy a betamax/VCR combo for roughly the same price. It would have been short sighted to limit yourself to only one technology.
Personally, I'll go shortsighted.
Shawn
Anonymous Coward no longer...at least when the system I read my mail from is functional again
And then I hope the encryption or whatever method is uses to limit the number of disc plays is cracked and DIVX joins Clipper in the dustbin of broken and now useless technologies!
Death to DIVX!
Distributed.net's next contest should be cracking DIVX! I'll volunter everything I can to the task!
I think divx as a straight alternative to DVD sucks but if they distribute the media correctly I don't see how it is any different than renting. Most people don't really buy movies anyways, they rent them when they want to see them.
Like what if when you bought a $9.00 ticket to see Phantom Menace they gave you a divx disc to take home and if you wanted to you could see it again on your home TV. I'd go for that. They could even charge you $9.00 a viewing until it came out on video and then reduce the cost to $2.00 or something like that.
The funny thing is that neither DIVX or DVD will support good quality HDTV, people are up in arms over this DIVX business and buying all these DVDs but they aren't going to look so hot on HDTV and so they are just going to create another standard.
I went out and bought a DVD player specifically because I didn't want DIVX to take off. I'm not that avid a movie renter but when I do, I want a pro-consumer technology like DVD winning.
Once I got it, I also ordered a bunch of videos off of www.buyvideo.com for around $15 each. DVDs are pretty cool.
Even though I originally bought it just to help pound the nail in DIVX's coffin, I am finding that I enjoy the format.
My next purchase will probably be a DVD player for my computer. (This was another reason why I wanted DIVX to die -- I am under the impression that not only can my future computer DVD player not play DIVX disks, but that even if it could, I couldn't play the same disc in both my laptop and in my home stereo because the the device itself keeps track of which discs it can play. (What a run-on sentence...)
I'm just curious... I'm going to admit I really know very little about divx other than it is a hose job... How do they actually keep you from viewing the movies? they're not encrypted or anything hokey, are they?
If they're not, I say we take advantage of the situation... Is there anything to stop us from watching these movies more than once or whatever it is?
I'm going to admit that I know very little about how computer dvd players work. Is there any reason somebody can't write software that doesn't care if we watch the movie over and over?
Does anyone know the technical aspects of this? Is there any reason it can't be done(Do DVD drives just prevent you from actually reading it or something stupid?).
They should start mass mailings of those DIVX disks to random houses who buy DIVX capable machines. If I just started getting discs in the mail I'd be more inclined to call up and pay to try it out than if I went to the store and spent money on the thing up front.. I'd rather just buy the DVD then.
how can you call beta superior? People rent movies, but beta can't hold a full movie, so you rent 2 tapes?
oh, and beta's single source is a big problem. What if sony feels like jacking up the price?
I do not mind buying Laserdiscs...
Laserdisc RIP (not)
Don't connect it to your phone line.
So someone needs to build a box to plug into the back of your DivX player that spoofs this bug-brother-net. Anyone know if this's been done yet - or what it would take?
If you don't pay your bill -- zap, your Divx discs are toast. If CC goes out of business and the 800 number goes down -- zap, your Divx discs are toast. If the studios decide that they don't want you to see those movies anymore (if, say, a theatrical rerelease is coming), they just notify Divx and -- zap, your Divx discs are toast.
Oh yeah, and since Divx is a closed format nobody can compete with them, so CC can charge obscene re-rental fees without fear of someone who cares about customers driving them out of business.
Sheesh, what a scam. I'm happy with Open DVD, thank you very much.
It seems DIVX uses a proprietary scheme that involves 3DES (considered strong), and probably a tamper-resistant flash RAM holding your keys and stuff. I don't understand the claims about lacking DVD features- why wouldn't they just encrypt all the DVD's bits as-is?
One wonders how strongly they're handling key exchange, especially if they ever want to export players. The bitstream going into the MPEG decoder is another target, but they've probably thought of that....
It's not an awful idea; my real worry is that it'll do well enough they stop pressing real ownable DVDs. But it'll go nowhere at that price. Video stores (and DirecTV pay-per-view) are just convenient enough to compete. The notion they might AOL the discs around is kind of scary, though. I've heard pressing bulk CDs is well under US$1.00 nowadays- how much does it cost to press movie-length DVDs?
They use triple-DES, so some engineer had at least half a clue. If the memory is tamper-resistant and the calls are encrypted, I wouldn't hold my breath about cracking it.
Wow, sounds like a lot of people talking about Beta and VHS with no idea what they are talking about.
1. The L-830 tape can record up to 5 hours. That should be able to hold a full movie. The L-750 holds up to 4:30. The L-500 3 hours. The L-250 1:30 hours. The L-125 45 minutes.
2. Beta was never technically superior to VHS. In 1981 Popular Electronics discovered that most of the differences could only been seen with sensitive instruments and likely would never even show up on consumer grade TV sets. True Sony pioneered most developments (except for recording length), but the VHS camp copied Sony's technical developments.
3. I don't know if this is still the case but Sanyo, Toshiba, and NEC made Beta drives. Sony tried licensing Beta.
I agree that anyone who pays the price of a DVD to "permanently" unlock a DIVX disc is out of their mind. But DIVX does have a few advantages over rental (convenience, maybe price if they get a clue) or pay-per-view (lots more choices, pause!, maybe quality). We just can't let it kill DVD.
They're already using crypto, so they probably authenticate both the vendor's server and the player. Making the history look blank (is it tamper-resistant enough?) or recording the decrypted bitstream (but onto what?) are the most plausible attacks, assuming the design isn't stupid somehow and the vendor keeps their private key secure.
Okie, here's what I see. It's encoded, we need a key... I'm going to assume that each individual movie must have it's own key(it'd be too expensive to re-encode for each disc, yesno?). If this is borken, you're going to see web sites posting keys for movies. How much are divx's right now? I'd pay that for full time viewing.
:p Even if they're not, what's to stop us from dialing up the 800 number ourselves and intercepting the unlock code? People will pay to unlock the movie once, and bang, they have it forever. No clue whether that is a simple/complex task though, god knows what their dial in looks like. I'd still like to see it happen just to **** them over :p.
Where do we get the keys? Cracking each disc will be a pain. Are people crazy enough to do it? probably...
I wish I had read this after the weekend - it makes me sick. It ruined my weekend to think that anyone would accept Divx.
So that means the studios make 2 versions, DVD for the movie collectors and rental places and then DIVX for the people who want PPV.
Yes, it will play DVD's without a phone line. No the quality is not worse. I have a DVD player with DIVX, I don't use the DIVX, but it cost no extra, as Circuit City and friends is subsidising their sale. So, if you buy a player with DIVX, you play DVD's, rent DIVX's if you feel like it, and get to make Circuit City pay for the added functionality.
If you could buy a computer that would only run Linux, or one that could run Linux equally well, but also run Windows both selling at the same price, which would you choose??????
(This would be an excellent opportunity for the Linux martyrs to scream a lot)
BTW, I am a Linux user, support Linux, and use Linux in appropriate situations at work, I just like having more than one tool (OS's) available to me. It's a poor mechanic who forces one tool to do all jobs.
How many would like to call Big Brother and tell every time they watch a pornmovie?
I know exactly which commercial you are talking about. That guy is a freaking slime ball who looks like he was picked up from a cheesy used car commercial.
Maybe you could use a short phone line hook the DIVX's phone line to a comp and use it as a TCP/IP host. Then intercept the DIVX's packets and see what it is expecting and just give it the right responses. I'm sure it couldn't be that simple. encryption of course, but if they got a DIVx hacking thing setup on distributed.net. I would join and personally volunteer and give it 25% CPU time all the time up to 100% at idle.
-Anonymous Loser
I went to my local Blockbuster to rent some video games. DVD rentals were $15 each for 5 days! Crazy....
- pepsee
I'm assuming by "later" you actually mean "more than two days later," because otherwise it just isn't true. It's just like a video rental- you can pause to go to the bathroom or play it 24 times back-to-back if you want.
They claim DIVX does support all the DVD features, and since it's pretty much just an encrypted DVD, there's no reason it shouldn't. If format features could be used but aren't, that isn't DIVX's fault- the studios decided not to bother, so yell at them. Heck, there are lots of no-frills DVDs out there too.
I think y'all are making the Divx situationa a little more complicated than it needs to be.
Divx will die. This is not conjecture. It has absolutely no future. Why? Well, look at the points.
- Divx has no special features.
- Divx is really cheap.
and the most important fact. . .
- It has to put out a straight video signal at some point.
Most real movie buffs (the ones concerned with features and quality) will go with DVD. I don't think this is in dispute.
Those not so concerned with quality can get a really cheap movie. How? Buy the Divx disc and record to a VHS tape during the initial period. When recordable DVDs come out, all the better. Suffer an initial quality loss in the D/A video out stage, then go to DVD. Replicate the digital source at will.
Divx will annihilate profits for adopters.
This hasn't killed pay-per-view or VHS tape sales, even though a second VCR would be even cheaper than a Divx player.
More like a Good Guys, or a Future Shop with a lot fewer peripherals and software. You aren't missing much.
--
Jason Eric Pierce
--
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Just lurking, thanks!
My feedback:
I'm writing to express my extreme displeasure at your misleading website, www.divx.com.
Nearly everything on the main "about" page is either misleading, or an outright lie. (http://www.divx.com/about_divx_divxtechnology.ht
First, divx, while it might have its benefits, is NOT a DVD "enhancement" - at most, it is a modification. It should be labeled as such. More realistically, divx is a DVD bastardization, although I highly doubt you'll be putting that on your site any time soon.
Next, on the same page, you spend a few paragraphs lauding DVD technology. Everything you say there is true, but you neglect one IMPORTANT fact: the features you mention are NOT standard on divx discs, and in most cases, aren't available at all! I'm specifically looking at the following:
"Letterbox, widescreen or standard viewing" - show me a divx disc that allows you to pick which way you want to watch the movie, and I'll eat the damn thing. This is a benefit of DVD, and DVD _ONLY_ - divx doesn't support it.
"DVD can display multiple languages!" - same situation. once again, show me a divx movie that allows me to watch with my choice of 5 languages, and I'll eat it too. Another misleading paragraph.
"You want to see that cool scene from a different angle? No problem!" - This isn't yet standard on DVD, let alone divx!!! Where do you people get your information?!? DVD's allow you to see outtakes, and occasionally select alternate cameras. This is NOT a "choose your own adventure" book.
One more concern of mine: Old movies. With the divx "rent but don't return" model, once the stock of movies is gone, it's GONE. Unless of course, you plan on pressing discs forever, which I doubt. My concern: today, I can walk into a blockbuster, and find a copy of whatever obscure movie I want, or I can have them order it for me next day. If I was dealing with divx, this obscure movie wouldn't have BEEN returned to them, hence, they wouldn't have a copy to give me. DVD and VHS both allow scarce movies to still be rented/viewed. Divx does not. You convieniently forget to mention this anywhere on your web site. Then again, what was I expecting. You forgot about the BIG catch that you can't play your own Gold disc on another player (IE: friend's house). Or stop the movie halfway, and continue later. Or rewatch that favorite scene. That is, unless you're willing to pay a rental fee each and every time...
Sorry folks, but 3/4 of your "about divx" page is a push for DVD technology - which divx DOES NOT SUPPORT! I realize you're looking to get the Joe Schmoe audience here, and understand that technology-savvy persons would never buy into such a scam, but the fact is, one of these days, Joe is gonna get a bit pissed off and hit you with a misleading advertising suit, which I truely hope goes class action. I'd suggest putting a BIG fat disclaimer at the bottom of that page, saying that divx doesn't support any of these wonderful features of DVD
Here's wishing a quick demise to a shoddy product.
-Dave
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Just lurking, thanks!
A. There would be a huge load of DIVX disks in the landfills for the next few centuries.
But they can't do this anyway. The manufacturing cost of DIVX movies is higher than that of open DVD; each DIVX disk has to be serialized with a different serial number so that its usage can be tracked. Also, part of the scheme is that they hope profit margins on DIVX disks is high enough so supermarkets and drug stores will sell them (which none have agreed to do yet, and none will, IMO).
Also, never in a million billion years would they give away a DIVX of a film that's in current release. They put a bastardization into DVD players as it is, called regional encoding, so that international consumers couldn't buy DVDs from America of films in international release.
DIVX is different from renting in many ways. For one thing, it's intentionally monopolistic: you can only rent DIVX from DIVX. If DIVX decides they don't like you, your player will stop playing DIVX.
And regardless of what they think of you, they WILL sell your address to anyone who asks, along with a list of genres of movies you watch and the times when you watch them. (Including DVDs you watch.)
DIVX won't catch on... one big reason is that because of the DES encryption, players can't be exported. Finally a reason to celebrate the crappy encryption export regulation!
body and take out the local Circuit City.
Hey, it works for religious terrorists. Unless
someone out there can set me up with a government
surplus cruise missle and aiming system (actually,
I think I'd prefer that)...
----
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
is a turn-off for me.
I'll probably just have to take a page out of the
Hamas handbook and pack a $200 car full of
explosives. I can lodge a brick on top of the gas
and make a run for it before the explosion hits.
The question is: what kind of explosives should I
be looking to use? The feds are looking at big
fertilizer purchases, C4 is hard to get and
expensive...
Maybe a fuel-air bomb. Anyone got schematics?
----
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Um, actually, that's exactly what they are. Add to that things like the fact that you unlock a player's ability to play a disc, not the disc itself; so even if you pay for unlimited play, you can't play it on any other player. I'm not sure how upgrading your player is handled; I would think they wouldn't force you to throw out your whole movie collection, but this thing is such an obvious money grab I wouldn't put it past 'em.
If I may borrow a line from Nancy Reagan - Just Say No!
Y'know, the more I think about this the more I think Rick Sharp needs a good ass whippin'.
... what's new?
I'm glad the DVD player I ordered doesn't do DIVX. I like to own what I buy, thanks.
Check out Why Divx Sucks to see how BAD this Divx thing has really gotten. View my latest editorial response to see the REAL story behind the bullshit numbers Tricky Dick Sharp shouted out at the CES.
-
DaBuzz.net
If you can read this message, your threshold is too low.
Well, if you want to mince...
When I buy dinner, I do own the food -- they let me take it out of their restaurant with me (or in me). And you don't pay for charity, you give to charity. Payment implies services or goods rendered, so a charity isn't payment. And besides, he said he *likes* to own what he buys. The few exceptions are rather unfortunate, and everyone I know would avoid them if it was possible.
After researching and reviewing DVD issues, I have concluded that divx, and the people that created it are worse than greedy corporate bastards - they are just plain evil.
Avoid divx at all cost.
Actually DVDs are encoded using 480p
-Ex-Nt-User
I am thinking that somewhere down the line someone might find that Microsoft is behind Divx, it's right down thier alley. Don't be fooled though Divx is the tool of the devil. The sad thing is that the dual players are lower quality than most of the just DVD or just Divx players. I have heard some inside rumors that one of the big movie houses that is still holding out is going with DVD and NOT divx -- Disney Home Video has plans to re-release their animated movies on DVD (supposedly) several of the non-animated ones are already out.
Toodles - remember buy and own not buy and rent
What do you despise? By this are you truly known.
It's high-time consumers wisen up and boycott scams like DVD and the Minidisk. The only acceptable Divx technology is the one that breaks it, and makes it possible to pirate.
I used to not think highly of copying music, art, etc. Things have changed, and corporate America is sueing baseball camps for singing songs - freedom of speech.
It's time freedom of speech outlawed the copyright altogether.
The beverage coaster market has shown feirce competition that AOL worked hard to overcome -- CompuPerv, Proctology Internet, etc...
Do you think Circuit shitty can overcome them?
(Pretty good aliases, eh?)
Damn straight! Adult industries are keeping video tape alive and well not because the quality is good, but because it allows a person to enjoy a private thing... privately.
I can take or leave the technology behind DIVX; there's nothing inherently good or bad about a technology, only in its application. DIVX is a crummy idea because it disregards the consumer's desire for (a) control of something they pay for, and (b) privacy.
Maybe, though, this isn't a product of marketing ignorance, but a ploy to refine targeted marketing using your viewing habits. In that case, DIVX is a direct assault on individual privacy, just as if Barnes & Noble was able to place a transceiver in each book you buy, and base their marketing on your recorded reading habits. Noone would buy a book that reported its usage; why would you buy a media player that did so?
Jon
I think not...(*poof*)
That article was way too kind to divx. they neglect to mention the many reasons why informed customers hate divx. imagine trying to play your movie at a friend's house, only to find out that the movie you bought only works on your machine. what happens when you service a machine? If you like pan & scan and lower picture quality and to pay each time you view... go for divx. otherwise, dvd is the obvious choice.
I have a DVD player and personally choose not to purchase anything at circuit city because they endorse divx. Seriously, divx is evil stuff concocted by lawyers.
-- Solaris Central - http://w
Except that DVD is a more popular competitor to DIVX and has a higher name recognition. When folks walk into Blockbusters to rent their VHS tapes, what do they see against the entrance wall? Not DIVX (not in any of the Blockbusters I've been in), but DVD.
Even if CC could sell DivX to everyone going into their store looking for a DVD-like player, DVD would still be more popular because all the other stores are still selling DVD, and DVD can be used in computers.
I think DivX is being sold to two market segments: the uninformed (and that will change as DVD becomes the standard) and those who are hedging their bets by getting the dual-use players (I haven't compared quality, so I can't judge, but if quality is an issue, then the more informed will stop going this way).
--
Aaron Gaudio
"The fool finds ignorance all around him.
"Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, Memento Mori
Like many people, I don't have a phone jack anywhere near my TV and don't feel like running a long phone line to another room where there is a jack, so I couldn't play DIVX disks without some hassle.
My question is, if someone gave me a free DIVX player could I use it as a DVD player without hooking it up to a phone line?
Um, I realize this is playing with words a bit but if one is renting an apartment one does not also need to mortgage a home. :)
Seriously, though, if you mortgage your house, you own however much you've paid back on your loan. You *are* buying it. Do you have a few hundred thousand dollars laying around to buy a house outright? Well, if so, fabulous! But for the rest of us, we have to borrow money to buy things.
So yes, every penny (except of course for the damned interest :) spent on a mortgage is *buying* something.
I didn't lease my vehicle, but I do have a loan on it. I just didn't have $25,000 laying around screaming "buy a truck with me!". However, every month when I make a payment on that loan, that money goes to work for *me* ... not someone else. Later I can sell the thing if I want and keep the difference between what I get on it and what I owe on it.
Renting an apartment sucks. I do that now. I hate it. I'm saving up for a down payment on a mortgage for a house, though, and when I get that mortgage, I *will* own that house. Granted, I'll own less than 1% of it at first, but whatever I've paid into it is *mine*.
I don't donate to charities. And when you buy dinner, I'm pretty sure you then own the food you've put into your body. I somehow doubt anybody would dispute ownership of something that's being digested or excreted :)
I, too, insist on owning things I pay for. Renting an apartment is counter-productive in that regard; I intend to fix it :P (keep in mind I'm 20 years old here, folks, so I don't have any major stashes of money laying around :P)
I will never buy Divx. I never do pay-per-view. I dislike seeing movies in theatres. And I *really* despise paying late fees (on anything: credit card bills, rent, phone bills, etc.), so I avoid doing so. Anything I buy should be something that works for *me* ... not someone else.
When I was arguing with a monkey at Circus City (hehehe:) about Divx, he and the other three guys who ganged up on me to force my mind to change in Divx's favor finally admitted that Divx is just a way for the movie studios to make more money. Now if you're satisfied with renting your apartment, where the rent money you pay never does anything good for you again, then perhaps Divx *is* good for you. However, *I* don't care about lining a movie studio's pockets. I want to watch good movies over and over again, *wherever* I am.
Read my stuff.
Everytime I see the word DiVX, I think of that guy on the Circuit City Commmercial. Talk about a plastic fake-ass expression. He looks like the product of going over board on proper groomng and a bad imitation of someone on a parade float.
Heh, he would look more in place about 40 years ago selling some vacuum for Hoover.
As for DiVX, this is about the worst idea yet. Sounds like "smoking some good stuff" is still going strong in the R&D dept.
At the same time though you are helping to support the format. That's where the problem lies. No doubt Circuit City has the presence and the money to make DIVX stay but there's no way it will ever push out DVD. Too many people will realize DVD's benefits over DIVX.
We're just gonna have to deal with 2 formats from now on. At least for 10 years or so.
M
MG
actually IIRC they have made it public that they do NOT plan to do this. I've even heard rumors that once the disc goes out of production it will not be playable at all (i think "gold" discs are exempt from this, but it still seems like the consumer is getting a raw deal).
-matt
If you have a player, and play a title, can you swap with someone for a different title?
This way, one person pays for the title, and then you trade it to someone who has not seen that movie on that player, so they can play it once.
Since the disks are mass produced, the serial numbers are probably the same for each title.
If divix has to pay for each time a movie is watched, then it can't make any money since the movie has been paid for once.
So who's starting the divix disk exchange. Pay 50 cents, swap a movie.
From http://www.thedigitalbits.com/rumormill.html
;-)
* The process takes about two minutes. The letters DEC should flash on the screen and your player is decommissioned.
(The actual command sequence for two players players follows the quoted text)
12/29/98
OK, here's what appears to be the skinny on that Divx "player hack" everyone's been talking about recently. There is a way to "decommission" a Divx player, effectively wiping its memory clean of billing and account information. This can likely be done on all Divx players, and instructions for doing so on the RCA RC-52303 and Zenith Inteq 2100 have been posted widely around the Net (check this Anti-Divx site for the instructions, under the section appropriately labeled "Little Black Boxes"). So great, right? A Divx-killer? Not exactly.
Here's the problem: while decommissioning your player will prevent the billing information (for say, several movies you just watched) from being sent to the Divx host computer, it also kills your billing account registration data. And your player requires the registration data in order to function. So you'll have to keep registering your player over and over again. Which will likely tip Divx off to what you're doing. So while it may work once or twice, you might regret doing it in the end, especially if Divx decides to start charging a penalty fee for repeated re-registration.
All in all, I certainly can't recommend this procedure. Then again, if you're willing to take the risk, be sure to let me know what happens. As they say, inquiring minds want to know...!
Command Sequences:
Decommissioning a Zenith DIVX player: To decommission a Zenith DIVX player: **Make sure there is no disc in the machine then power the machine on and then off--- while the machine is off press the following keys in the exact order (STOP-STOP-REVERSE-STOP-FORWARD-FORWARD-REVERSE)*
Decommissioning a RCA DIVX player: To decommission a RCA DIVX player. **Make sure there is no disc in the machine then power the machine on and then off--- while the machine is off press the following keys in the exact order while holding down the POWER key at the same time.
(STOP-STOP-FOWARD-FOWARD)** The process takes a minute or so. The letters DEC should appear on the screen and your player is decommissioned.
Ok, even if you could crack your divx player so that you would never get charged, who would want to pay 4.50 for a pan and scan disc with no extra features? I certainly wouldn't. DIVX is just shit.