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Creative Labs Seeking Linux Coder
Ryan wrote in
to say "Apparently Creative Labs is looking to hire
someone full-time to develop and write Linux kernel drivers
for their audio products, as this posting to the linux-kernel
mailing list shows. Specifically meantioned is the role of
this person to grow a team of engineers to support Linux.
I'm unsure if this team is in the OSS community, or internal
to Creative. There is also meantion of ALSA, my favorite Linux
sound system. Assuming the resulting drivers are available for
free (even if only in binary format), everyone with a
Creative sound card will win big."
I really hope that Creative gives the ALSA folks a nod (instead of the damned crippleware Closed Sound System RedHat insists on shipping).
Does anyone know if RedHat will ever stop shipping the Closed Sound System and start using ALSA?
As soon as they release binary only drivers, i'll start reverse engineering them... gnagnagna...
GPL FOR ALL!
cool cool cool.
Yeah, I want to have drivers for the SB 2^n at whatever number n is these days.
make me reconsider buying a sound blaster live.
Although 3dfx is a bit more "cool" than many other hardware companies which keeps the hardware programming information proprietary, I think they're still quite lame as they are NOT releasing information about the low level details about the 3dfx chip.
Sure, they ported Glide to linux, but can someone explain why they cannot release low-level information about direct hardware access - like lowlevel VGA programming information is widely availabe?
I really don't care if it is free/comercial
open or close source. I just want to be able
to use my DVD drive + mpeg HW from Linux. Then
there would be *really* little left I would need
Win95/NT for.
To: jhawley@creaf.com
CC: You lot!!
I notice from the Linux Kernel mailing list that you are looking for programmers to write drivers for Creative's audio products in the near future. I have always been a fan of Creative's audio products and have owned many models in the past. As such I am very pleased to see Creative becoming active toward the Linux platform.
However, I notice the distinct lack of any policy statement in your posting regarding the license arrangements that the resulting software would be placed under. As you are no doubt aware, Linux's success is largely due to its open nature and as such many users, including myself, would find it unfortunate if Creative where to ignore this aspect of Linux and produce restricted, binary only drivers for the system. As you are no doubt aware Linux can already accommodate many of Creative's products and many hours of work have gone into producing drivers to date. I would like to urge Creative not to ignore the Linux programmers out there who happily bug fix and upgrade drivers without payment. While relatively few Linux users are capable of fixing bugs and upgrading drivers, it is a great boon to those able to do so that Linux's drivers and kernel code are open to them.
I understand that many established companies are uneasy toward open source and regard such policies with caution, however I feel Creative would find the results of making their drivers open to community aid and enhancement rewarding in term of both good publicity and future development.
Phill Hugo
Department of Computer Science
The University of York
England
Another one from Jacob Hawley:
s t/1067.html
http://gwyn.tux.org/hypermail/linux-kernel/late
I like the NT part.
Please please write better drivers for this card!
i don't give a darn about 3D sound and DVD (Hey, what do we want Linux for? Quake and Disney? !@#£$%&,go buy a lollipop!)
I want some decent videodrivers! I want it BAD! I want hardware accellerated everything! I want a multithreaded X-windows! I don't want to pay extra for a proprietary server made by experimenting geeks in a basement, I want my big fancy g-card manufacturer to provide it to me!
When I have perfect X-OpenGL, THEN I might look around for some minor improvements to my soundsystem.
So please, please (with honey and cream), DEAR Creative Labs make some drivers for my 3D Blaster Banshee (boohoohoo)!
I have Creative SB16. Bought it 3 years ago, mainly because it was supported better (it was a good sound card too). I was thinking about getting SB Live in my next computer. After this announcement I definitely will! Way to go, Creative!!!
Oh, and btw, the new machine will also have Creative TNT in it. I was also thinking about getting DVD at some point, but currently the lack of Linux support is the major reason I'm not gonna buy it.
OBVIOUS? Creative should simply get in touch with Dev Mazumdar at Open Sound System and do a deal with him. He already has all the code they need and more. He already has more experience than they WILL EVER HOPE TO BE ABLE TO HIRE.
Get your heads out of your geeky butts, you idiots.
Speaking of Creative Labs...I am a real novice Linux user and for Christmas i got a CL Voodoo Banshee that replaced my old 2 meg Trident and now I can't get X to start at all (RH 5.1). Are there any drivers in RH 5.2 or is there anything a novice user can do to fix this (I am not advanced enough yet to do a recompile of the kernel).
suggestions? nicole@magenet.com
Its a good thing I'm getting a SB Live instead of an alternative. I used to have a SB Awe32 that ran wonderfully under Linux (even with wavetable support for .MOD, .MID, etc.). I just hope to see CL support everything they sell under Linux (I know it might be hard to support some things like video drivers right now since there is no real standard system).
Look at www.uno.edu/~adamico/banshee/ for information on how to make your banshee work under the 2.1/2.2 kernels and the X Frame Buffer server (It works for me!).
Alternatively, follow glide.xxedgexx.com/status.html for the status of the Banshee X-server. The current status is "Rough draft of the 3.3.3 version of the Banshee X server is written and compiles. Now testing."
-benjy@NOSPAM.alum.mit.edu
Please, read the link.
under Skills:
"-Familiarity with OSS and ALSA"
So I would say, yes.
Is it me or is 3dfx becoming more and more like ATI? Which I guess is their idea since ATI is one of the few chip companies which is actually making money, but STILL...
(3dfx buying out STB, not releasing the Voodoo3 to outsiders, aparently not giving full specs on the Banshee, etc...)
SGI just released an 2 NT boxes.
The cool thing about it is that the memory is unified. (video RAM and main memory are the same)
Sources say they are working on a
Linux rollout as we speak.
Just think, native OpenGL, 4 PII processors,
2 gigs of VRAM/RAM, and a bus fast enough to
handle everything at RAM speed!
And a baseline price under $4000!
Now let's see if we can start getting some 3D sound support into Linux.
I happen to know at least one manager at Creative Labs is strongly pro-open source model. It makes a lot of sense for them when you think about it -- they're really in the hardware business, not the software business, and having open-source software that hackers could play with would be a great added-value for their hardware compared to their competitors.
I hope that this direction continues to evolve; open-source sound-card drivers would be a good thing in the world.
To: jhawley@creaf.com
CC: You lot!!
I notice from the Linux Kernel mailing list that you are looking for programmers to write drivers for Creative's audio products in the near future. I have always been a fan of Creative's audio products and have owned many models in the past. As such I am very pleased to see Creative becoming active toward the Linux platform.
However, I notice the distinct lack of any policy statement in your posting regarding the license arrangements that the resulting software would be placed under. As you are no doubt aware, Linux's success is largely due to its open nature and as such many users, including myself, would find it unfortunate if Creative where to ignore this aspect of Linux and produce restricted, binary only drivers for the system. As you are no doubt aware Linux can already accommodate many of Creative's products and many hours of work have gone into producing drivers to date. I would like to urge Creative not to ignore the Linux programmers out there who happily bug fix and upgrade drivers without payment. While relatively few Linux users are capable of fixing bugs and upgrading drivers, it is a great boon to those able to do so that Linux's drivers and kernel code are open to them.
I understand that many established companies are uneasy toward open source and regard such policies with caution, however I feel Creative would find the results of making their drivers open to community aid and enhancement rewarding in term of both good publicity and future development.
Phill Hugo
Department of Computer Science
The University of York
England
plh102@york.ac.uk
Oh how sweet it would be to finally play some DVD movies in Linux. This sounds like a great step to me, maybe this will spark a growing trend for some of the other uptight hardware companies out there.
OSS != Open Source Software
OSS == Open Sound System
Hey CL, how about drivers for the DXR2 DVD kits while your at it?? Even if it has to be binary only, it's better than rebooting to windows at this point.
(void*)
This
Posted by The guy in the next cubicle:
Anyone here able to get a SB Live! to work under Linux 2.0.x? I tried using the SB16 and AWE64 drivers, plugging in the correct memory addresses, but I couldn't get it to work. Hopefully CL will have complete Linux support for their full line fairly soon.
Don't forget FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, OS/2, and BEOS. Try to find a solution that will work for all platforms. Make a java binary if you need to, with your own API.
Of course linux needs better sound support (and not just in drivers. I just set up some xterminals and can now assue you that remote sound doesn't work, no surprize to me.)
Distributing binary-only drivers is like keeping
people dependent on welfare. Oopening the source
is like helping them get a job. Guess which model
makes life better for everyone in the end?
If they release binary-only, the proper thing to do is write your own open source version.
Mark
Mark
I'd just like to point out that two weeks ago, I sent in an e-mail to Creative Labs informing them of how their policies on Soundcard drivers for Linux had influenced my purchasing decisions. I don't know if it made a difference, but you have to think that if there were a lot of letters of that nature, it would make a difference.
My second thought: doesn't Creative already work with OSS developing drivers for their cards (for example SB Live!). How does OSS feel about this new development? I don't see any evidence that the drivers would be released as open source.
sigs are a waste of space
From the article, it certainly looks to me that the team will be OSS, or will have some input into the OSS community. The drivers look like they will also be integrated into the Kernel.
It would be a laugh is Linus/Alan decided that the code wasn't good enough for the Kernel. I think I'd split my sides!
Anyway, well done Creative. Another step for Linux, and yet another reason to buy Creative products.
Speaking of Creative Labs Linux support, this may be a touch off topic, but...
I was looking at thier "Graphics Blaster RIVA TNT AGP 128-bit graphics engine, 16MB sdram. 250MHz DAC. Support Direct X and Open GL. Retail Box AGP" which seems to be around $120? Looks like Tom's Hardware did a decent review on this thing, if I am reading it right, but didn't say it was al that great. Anyone use one, and can comment on it's preformance in Linux, and just how well supported it really is?
I notice a lot of comments about DVD and 3-D sound possabilities... Would be interesting to see it happen, would be great. I would love to buy a new Linux box twards the end of the year that can "do it all" multimedia wise... ;-)
I was not even aware that RedHat shipped it to begin with. Then again, I don't use the "official" redhat.
--
-- Knowledge shared is power lost. -- Aleister Crowley
I don't know who was the first to do it, Adaptec maybe? But it is aparent that all the good companies are beginning to provide Linux support. If you think about it, this really makes sense. The Open Source model for drivers is perfect because the hardware company probably doesn't care about copying or piracy, and the increased quality of the drivers can only help hardware sales. The only possible downside is that they can't keep the programming info a secret. But in general i think companies only do this when they have cheesy hardware, like winmodems. Not because they developed some whiz bang product. I am extremely happy to see this trend catching on.
--
-- Knowledge shared is power lost. -- Aleister Crowley
I remember the dos days and the joys of really :).
... They don't need MS to like or
crapy games ( the ones that need a boot disk
SB was always the soundcard of choice because
every game sounds good on a creative card
( subject to the developers interpritation of
"good".
I got my SB16 in 1995 because it was the only
card I culd find that wold work properly in Linux,
OS/2, Windows 3.11, Windows 95, WinNT, DOS and
the many games that talk directly to the hardware.
Smart move IMHO
back them to remain strong. Not when people still
come into the shop and say "Are those el chepo cards REALLY Sound Blaster compatible ?"
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
Looks like I might eventually replace my Awe32PNP
with something more recent from CL...
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
Well people, It's time to vote with your wallet.
Once other hardware manufactures see creative labs making all this $$$ from the linux community, maybe, just maybe, others will get their heads out of their asses and start coding drivers.
Then the apps will come....
Do not read this
Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is ALSA? Also, where can I read up on it?
I would kill and/or maim small animals and possibly those undesirable siblings of mine for Linux drivers for my Creative VideoBlaster Webcam II.
As far as sound goes, mine is a non-Creative (read: extremely el cheapo) "Sound Blaster-compatible" card made by Realtek (the Avance Logic ALS100+), so I guess anything would be appreciated. I have an old Sound Blaster Pro sitting around doing nothing, so I might use that if worse comes to worse. Best of luck with the project, though. It's nice to see Creative taking care of the OSS community.
"World domination, of course. And scantily clad females. Who cares if it's twenty below?"-Linus Torvalds wizard@twcny.
Does anyone know if Aureal has plans to give the information necessary for Linux support for their 3D sound chips?
Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see. - Mark Twain
looks like 1999 WILL in fact be linux's year. Who doubted it anyway?
oh lives so very good
Yea for Creative, Yea for any competitors that duplicate them.. (hint hint)
the snowballs rolling!
ok i'm done
-doobman
AFAIK, when you link with a GPLed program (ie linux kernel) and release your binaries, they are automatically GPLed and you _must_ release your source.
Therefore, binary-only drivers would be a no-no.
Pretend that something especially witty is here. Thanks.
I'm pretty sure that the drivers included are the OSS Lite with some additions. Linux drivers for PCI soundcards seems to be the source of my AudioPCI drivers, not OSS.
Time flies like an arrow;
Time flies like an arrow;
Fruit flies like a bananna
This would be terrific; it could also mean finally getting updated drivers for OS/2, as well as other platforms Creative no longer has the ability to support.
Save Maine's economy: write stuff down. All comments are exclusively my own, not my employer.
I wouldn't consider binary-only drivers to be a "big win." If anything it would be a "big loss" for linux and the free software movement in general. Maybe it is appealing to the people who are afraid to mention the "Freedom" part of free software to their bosses, but I don't like it. I'll take an GPL'd driver of inferior quality over a binary driver of superior quality any day.
I own a Creative Labs Live! card, it is mostly a games sound card for what I know, is Creative going to release drivers open source? OSS is usually a reference to the Open Sound System, it is only source if you get the light version, included with Linux kernel?
I do not play games that much, at the moment. I like doing music on pc with the Gravis UltraSound card, SoundBlaster Live! card, and the Hoontech ST 128DDMA Ruby Sound Track card...
I recently bought several sound cards to compare. Most cards suck when you look for company support after they receive the money, they give little software support other than game drivers. Then I found this sound card:
http://www.hoontech.co.kr/sndcard.htm
ST 128 DDMA Ruby SoundTrack
Hoontech did make a kernel driver and software ie.
Driver and Software for Linux for ISA(170KBytes, 06/02/98) http://www.hoontech.co.kr/down/linux.htm
Hoontech also let you download firmware upgrades, installation manual, and a 4.3M (grr..i'd like rtf/pdf) user guide in doc format for ST128DDMA, driver for NT 4.0, driver for NT 5.0, digital audio driver for Cakewalk, Direct Sound 3D driver, 4 channel firmware for MIDI, font editor (MIDI) mixer software and with manual, patch map, drivers and some software for Win95 and DOS:
MOD and Wave player, reference, mixer for DOS ( 308KBytes )
My Mini Compo, My Mixer ( 1.01 MBytes )
Multi Track wave player - 8 Track Player ( 255 KBytes )
"if you are a Sound Track developer you get source for a DOS mixer, MOD player, WAV player, program reference, mixers for Windows, audio component and 8 track multi-track player. We hope this will help the programmers"
http://www.hoontech.co.kr/products.htm
http://www.hoontech.co.kr/down.htm
Teratech EWS64XL, Guilemot use the same DREAM chip, but more expensive. Teratech is not finished with advertised software even several months past release. I recommend this card if you play sampled music, sample or record yourself, for mixing, sequencing, tracking.
http://www.hoontech.co.kr/misc/distribu.htm
This is great news - whilst I could get my onboard SB16 compatible to work with Linux, since I upgraded to my SB Live (for music stuff in 'doze) my Linux world has been sadly silent... C'mon guys, hire someone and get that driver out soon! I want four point surround sound in Linux too!
Of course, this will only be any use if we get some decent audio software written as well - I don't just mean silly sample twiddlers or 'Kubase' (bletch bletch bletch). Something along the lines of CoolEdit Pro would be ideal (64 track DTD recording with real time effects) - and hey, if it was free, even better.
Then I'd be one step closer to switching to Linux completely (the other step being making all my Win95 games run in Wine)
-- I reserve the right to be completely wrong --
How about freaking DVD?????!!!
Its great that they're doing sound, but DVD is NEEDED BIGTIME1!
That would definately be a plus, speaking of the Dxr2, has anyone gotten the start at a driver (http://www.rpi.edu/~veliaa/linux-dvd/) working with 2.2.0-preXX. Every time I try to use it I get an oops. I'm still in the process of debuging it. (Slow cuz it needs a reboot just about everytime I make a change to the driver).
-matt
I *REALLY* hope CL decides to support ALSA, rather than the OSS/Free drivers shipped with the standard Linux kernel... I am hoping perhaps this will convince Linus/Alan to dump the pathetic OSS/Free drivers they currently use, and replace them with ALSA... For all the good things I could say about the drivers that come with the standard Linux kernel, like the (generally) outstanding SCSI/IDE/Parallel port drivers it has, I think OSS/Free is probably the only exception I can find... In my case at least, I found ALSA to be vastly more stable and feature-rich than OSS/Free... I tried and tried and tried to get OSS/Free to work with my GUS PnP, but the most I got in the end was sound that kept skipping, and the driver spewing out tons of DMA/IRQ error messages to my terminal, even though I had them setup CORRECTLY. When you consider this, plus the fact that OSS/Free requires RAM just to do DA on the AMD Interwave-based PnP card (which is absolutely pathetic, IMHO, since ALSA does DA without the need for RAM), I think this says that all around, OSS/Free *STINKS*. Needless to say, the last straw with me came when I was told by one of the OSS/Free developers that they "might consider" PnP support, but that I should pay for OSS/Professional if I really wanted to get this feature (since 4Front-Tech, Inc. sponsers the development of OSS/Free)... That was the last straw as far as I was concerned... They can say that OSS/Free is GPL'd if they wish, but IMHO, it is meaningless if all they can tell me is that I must pay for a proprietary binary-only version just to get something half-decent. That is NOT my idea of open-source... That is what I call CRIPPLEWARE, masquerading as open source. Bah. Let's hope CL makes the right decision.