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XFree86 3.3.3.1 includes Riva TNT >OPEN SOURCE code
Booker writes "
There was lots of gnashing-of-teeth over the evil lords at Nvidia "obfuscating" the source for Xfree86. The latest on the XFree86 web page states that the "Open Source NVIDIA driver has been included" for 3.3.3.1.
" It also adds Gnu/HURD support, and improved Media GX support.
Who cares? TNT was already working under XFree86.
Now we need a real 3D accelerated driver for usage with Mesa, OpenGL, etc under Linux. Linux should *not* be restricted to 3Dfx products and the evil-locked-down API Glide.
Now if they would just release specs for the 3d side of their cards... I would _love_ to be able to play 3d-accelerated Quake2 in Linux without a stinky 3dfx card. ARE YOU LISTENING NVIDIA??
download it... test it... report bugs... for the love of God!
Can somebody tell me what GNU/hurd is?
Well, I've also heard about a lib nVIDIA wanted to distribute, something in the likes of Glide but object oriented, but this was months ago (October). I'm sure we would have seen something by now. I suppose they are just happy enough with their Windows sales...
See http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd.html
GNU/Hurd is the GNU system running on the Hurd kernel. Hurd is a microkernel based on Mach and thus quite a bit different from Linux. Hurd is still pretty much in alpha stage and does not support much in the way of hardware.
finger @linux.kernel.org
to discover the latest release.
It might not be available on all mirrors, but keep trying until you get it. It is definitely out, and no, I'm not the one who said that yesterday.
it is out.
I know too little about the implementation of either kernels, but the ups and downs of microkernel vs monolithic kernel should apply.
Microkernels are said to be more stable (since much less can go wrong) and monolithic kernels are said to be faster (since the hardware is directly accessible). I have no idea how the differences matter in reality since I only have experience with monolithic kernels (no modules does not make the linux kernel a microkernel).
Is there support for the banshe voodoo2 in any of the servers? I could find no mention of this chipset anywhere on Xfree86's pages. The only luck i've had is with the XF86_FBDev, but i cannot get it past 1024x768 8 bit.
Err, ok it is out. I had checked a few hours ago myself, didn't think things could change so fast. :-)
It wasn't out yesterday, though.. when someone posted it.
nVIDIA is making a good move. More hardware support means the eventual death of MS. And lets not spoil this by flaming the efforts of nVIDIA. They have taken a first step. Lets not get caught up in criticizing the quality of this first baby step. Lets instead offer them as much support as we can so that they will continue to take steps into the Linux fold.
There is such a thing called diplomacy. In dealing with the corporations we should employ it. Otherwise we only shoot ourselves in the foot.
I'm in the same boat... many times a day I swing by Darryl Strauss's site to see if he's released the Banshee XServer yet. And I really hope that 3DFX does go the open source route. But I don't regret the VooDoo Banshee choice, because it still seems to me very likely that 3D acceleration via Glide and Mesa will be available for Linux well before we see any way to use the 3D side of the TNT chips.
Of course, if NVidia proves me wrong, first I'll kick myself, then I'll run out and buy a TNT Riva card. (Are you listening, 3DFX?) And if NVidia's 3D Linux driver is open source, I'll buy several. (Are you still listening, 3DFX?)
Did I do bad getting the PCI version? I got it because the AGP versions of the TNT don't get along so great with Super 7 motherboards. Am I going to be missing out on stuff other than a few fps or is AGP kinda headed in the same direction as MMX?
GNU/HURD uses the 2.0.36 Linux kernel drivers. Don't spread misinformation you idiot. The HURD is not like ExoPC or Oberon or some other experimental piece of crap that supports like one or 2 SCSI cards and 3 network cards.
YOU WILL ALL BE OPEN SOURCE!!!!!!!!!! haha way to go - my next card is a Riva!!!!
Anyone know of an inexpensive way to partition a SCSI HD without refortmating or having to dig like hell to figure it out?
I neeeeed to load Linux.
Thanks,
Don't have 70 bucks
Anyone know of an inexpensive way to partition a SCSI HD without reformating or having to dig like hell to figure it out?
I neeeeed to load Linux.
Thanks,
Don't have 70 bucks
(since all the functionality is in userspace)
What card do you folks recommend these days in
the under $100 range?
I was planning to buy one before, but this settles it. Maybe all those nasty "get into the present" emails I sent NVidia helped?
Since they use Linux drivers and Linux TCP/IP
and Linux filesystem code, they are really just
part of the Linux project. They ought to give
credit where credit is due: Linux/HURD is the
proper name for such a system.
Microkernels can be faster than some pitiful
old BSD and SysV code. That doesn't make them
fast by any streach of the imagination.
Microkernels have message passing overhead.
Traditional kernels do not have such a problem.
Given good implementations of both, what do you
think will be faster?
Microkernel advocates love to compare against
crappy old monolithic kernels like Solaris,
Ultrix, etc. Who cares if you can beat a loser?
ROTFLMAO!
That was priceless. Honestly, I think the world of RMS and I am truly grateful for the vision, will, and effort that he has put intp Free Software. But it's a bit different from my vision, and that's why I don't get upset over "open source" vs "free software". I happen to think the name "GNU/Linux" looks ridiculous and sounds worse. It also is as arrogant as hell, since there doesn't seem to be a requirement for any other piece of software, commonly used, important, or otherwise, that it call itself "GNU" if it wants to use the GPL or other "free" license.
Thank you AC for this delightful reverse spin on the HURD.
fdisk? funny haha, yeah and add all his disk for Linux! He doesn't want to reformat or lose data. What if he has FAT32 and uses fips? off topic, yep, but an honest question.
GNU I could handle:
Rule 1: GNU's not UNIX
What is GNU? See rule 1.
But this Hurd/Hird pair is running out of stack space in my brain the more I think about it.
Maybe the linux community IS a bunch of rude punks. But even if it is, one would hope the corporations that are starting to take a direction that could pay off HUGE for us don't get that impression.
Be nice. They didn't HAVE to release open source drivers (though it can only work to their advantage) and they hate getting flamed.
BSD is hurting bad. Hurd is not meant as direct competition but who knows? BSD insiders are aware of the continued decline of the BSD variants. Is Hurd ready to pick up the BSD refugees? Not yet. But 1999 will prove to be a very interesting year indeed as certain foundering variants bite the dust.
Otherwise, just grab the server binary from ftp.xfree86.org and replace the XF86_3DLabs on your system. It is merely a single file so it is not hard to install by hand (though I do not know how it would mess with RPM dependencies).
Even though it wasn't much advertised, the #9 Revolution IV seems to be supported by the Xfree86 3.3.3.1 as well. Now this is really great news, especially for those who don't care so much about games.
I use (and like) Linux and BSD (OpenBSD mostly), so I'm not stuck on either side of the fence here. I haven't heard anything about "the decline and fall of BSD" and everything I've seen suggests that the BSDs are experiencing the same sort of growth that Linux has, sans media attention.
Just because an OS isn't the darling of the trade press doesn't mean it's in decline. The BSDs have strong, growing user bases and a good development pace. The BSDs are still clearly the open source unixen of choice on non-Intel platforms (other than maybe Alpha), and many FreeBSD users would argue the same for Intel as well.
BSD has a long history, mature code, and a dedicated following. I don't know much about HURD, but I don't see BSD users trading their reliable, high performance, mature operating systems for anything experimental.
There's room for as many operating systems as people care to write.
Of course if you want to put 128MB of RAM on your PCI graphics card it will go a lot faster than a 16MB card with AGP, but few people are that crazy yet.
Are you sure about this? I read a rather lengthy comparison on Tom's hardware before shifting over to Linux that pointed out (among many other things) that when the video card is accessing that main ram, then the cpu is frozen. Since video cards have approched the point where it's already waiting for the cpu to catch up, why would you want a card that will slow it down even more?
As far as textures go, I thought that the average size of them was on the order of 2-5mb? If that was also correct, then why bother the main ram at all with 16mb on the video card?
Inevitably, whenever the microkernel == crappy argument comes up, someone is bound to stand up and say "Tell that to all those people running QNX in mission-critical realtime environments."
So, um, tell that to all those people running QNX in mission-critical realtime environments.
And still no accelerated driver for Rendition...
Hi,
I'm interested in the card that will best drive a 24" 1920x1200x24 monitor.. I know TNT can have 16MB, but the Rage Fury has 32MB, which allows for full acceleration and buffering at that resolution/depth..
Can I get a TNT with 32MB?
Cheers,
- Otis Wildflower
(otis@unixslave.com)
Hi all.
I'm new to linux and would like to install the new 3.3.3.1. I run Red Hat 5.2 distribution. I found XFree86-3.3.3-11.i386.rpm on rawhide.redhat.com. Is this all that I need? Also, how do I install it?
Thanks for any help.
Alex.
So then it's (GNU/Linux)/HURD, but after some BSD stuff creeps in, it's "(GNU/Linux)/HURD" with special guest appearance by BSD".
Then when somebody installs KDE on top of it, you get "TROLLTECH (GNU/Linux)/HURD with special guest appearance by BSD with MUST-USE KDE".
And as every KDE paranoid knows, TROLL is about to be bought out by Microsoft, Any Day now (TM), so you get the MS Visual Trolltech with ActiveKDE add-on W2K component.
Because the BSD license is strong enough. When you write BSD software, it doesn't "Own You" like GNU software does
What about a semi-generic S3 Virge card? I found the AOpen VIRGE/DX card to be pretty nice - $50 at a local vendor (not the cheapest way to go around here :), although I haven't tried it under X yet (they were for my mum and dad who run NT)
Check out the PenguinPlay project (Don't have the URL handy, sorry) they are working on a DirectX type of system. Also, you might find SDL (Simple, Direct Media Layer) interesting.
I found the Penguin Play link, it's here: Penguin Play
specifically the jaton video 58p
the et600 cards use mdram which is very fast and
the driver is in xfree and the card can do up to 1600x1200. additionally pricewatch reports that
a jaton can be had for $50.
the only downside is that tseng labs just sold
to another company. but jaton will probably
keep suport.
Thanks,
It's just that my work box has this swank 24" 1920x1200x24 monitor + 16MB card, and I'm interested to see if I could drive an HDTV monitor at home..
Cheers,
- Otis
jerodd wrote:
The Hurd was originally started by GNU as part of their project to create a completely free Unix system. Linux did not exist back then, and Linus was still learning his multiplication tables. (Or maybe they are smarter in Finland by that age? I don't know.)
Um, according to the Free Software Foundation, HURD wasn't even started until 1990. Linux was well past his multiplication tables by then, I believe solidly in grad school.
The first release of HURD didn't happen until 1996, six years for an alpha release? That's slow even for a Cathedral project. Somehow I suspect that a lot of what happened in the early 1990's on HURD was talk, and most of the development didn't happen until Linux was on the map.
I think that HURD does offer some useful innovations, whether those innovations remain in a separate project like HURD, or get incorporated into Linux remains to be seen.
----
Open mind, insert foot.
Hopefully, nVidia's (perceptive) release of open source drivers will translate into real pressure on 3Dfx to follow suit. Like the databases did in '98 and like the OEMs will do in '99.
There's only one coax connector at the back... so how do I tell Xfree to send a monochrome signal to it, as opposed to having a monochrome VGA/SVGA monitor where you just inject your color video signal that's displayed in grey levels?
Any idea? Thanks :-)
---
"Hasta la victoria siempre!" El Comandante
Don't worry, RMS doesn't call it GNU/Linux anymore.
He just calls it GNU.
And yes, I can quote him on that, he said it during a radio interview (no longer on-line, unfortunately). He didn't mention the word Linux until the interviewer directly asked him "What about Linux?"
Sigh...
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
I installed the 3.3.3 rpm a few days ago. Today I noticed my system was really, really, really slow.
Now I see from the web site that 3.3.3.1 fixes that problem. Does anybody have an RPM, or do I have to build it myself?
The next Cmdr Taco duplicate will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
From: president@nvidia.com
To: engineer-jim@nvidia.com
Subject: Increased e-mail activity
Jim, the amount of e-mail we've been receiving this week has jumped up an order of magnitude. Moreover, the messages all appear to be angry letters from the Linux community regarding our involvement with Linux development.
Whatever you're doing, STOP IT!
---
From: engineer-jim@nvidia.com
To: president@nvidia.com
Subject: Re: Increased e-mail activity
> Whatever you're doing, STOP IT!
Yes sir.
I'm running the 550 viper and it seems fine as a PCI on a regular socket 7 board. I haven't talked to anyone running one on a super7 though.
Kashani
- Why is the ninja... so deadly?
Isn't somone working on open source implementation of LVM? I remember visiting a page which tells about it in additon to somone porting linux over to (HP's) PA-RISC. I don't remember the url though....sorry.
Do not read this
Trespasser is the most butt-slow dog of a game
ever inflicted on gamers. It blows chow on AGP
AND PCI cards. If you're gonna bench AGP vs. PCI,
don't use the worst game of the year.
S3 made a QII level with a huge
amount of different textures to test their
(closed) Texture Compresssion Scheme over the
AGP bus. Try that on your TNT AGP card and see what you get.
My bet: a couple VIIs in SLI fry it.
Have fun!
Would this by any chance have support for the S3 Trio3D in XF86_S3 or XF86_SVGA ?? :\
Yaya but that was there in 3.3.3 .. just wondering if has changed.. the Trio3D can't be much different then the other trios.. so whats takin so long? =( meanwhile i'll pout in win98
Yeah the RIVA 128is a VERY nice card for the money. You can pick up OEM for like, 50-60 bucks now, and 70 bucks for an 8mb AGP version. It's D3D, (I know windows...) for those of us that have to boot Windows for some games, is still very nice. X Windows absolutely loved it too. I was using SuSE's XServer for the longest time, XSuSE_nVidia or something, but will prolly move to standard XFree now.... Especially since my version is fairly old =)
Food: It's whats for dinner
> How in hell does "all the functionality in
> userspace" make an OS easier to debug?
Because it means that you can run multiple copies of the "OS personality" over the microkernel. You boot a first instance of your OS as your debug platform, and then start an instance of the OS your are debugging as a process under the first instance. If it crashes, you can directly debug it, kill just the process, quickly edit-compile-restart ("reboot"), all without having to reboot the underlying computer.
IMHO, this ease of debugging is the best reason for using microkernel-like systems. And I worked on several projects doing this on top of Mach3 over the years.
(This comments apply to Mach systems in general, such as MkLinux. The last I heard, Hurd was using Utah's "Mach4" work, but I assume this debugging technique still applies to it.)
Better a "luser" than a flaming jerk. Try developing a social skill or two.
actually, its version 3.3.3.1 as opposed to 3.3.1
Keyboard not found.
Keyboard not found.
Press F1 to continue.
I've also heard, in replys from Nvidia to my questions, that something may be in the works. I'm crossing my fingers.
[sandeen@Porter yagirc]$ finger @linux.kernel.org
[linux.kernel.org]
The latest stable version of the Linux kernel is: 2.0.36
The latest beta version of the Linux kernel is: 2.1.132
The latest prepatch (alpha) version *appears* to be: 2.2.0-pre7
And it's on the us mirror that I use... 70kb patch.
to the folks at nvidia who were good enough
to write me, to let them know they are on the
right track!
THEY GOT A LOT OF FLAMES even though they were
ACTIVELY SUPPORTING LINUX.
C'mon folks, start using your tact, and/or your
nice words, with hardware vendors that support
linux!!!
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
It's not "FROM" GNU!!!
IT IS "TO" GNU!!!!!!!!
It came FROM the community
which would exist with or without rms.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Does Linux have a generic sound engine to compliment the GL support?
IMHO one of the few things M$ did cool was DirectX; I would very much like to see a similar gaming system for Linux. After all, who would desire a return to the days of DOS when games were built for a specific set of sound and video cards? Could it be that a generic sound/video translation layer is the key to massive game developer support for Linux?
If it's out there now (or in development), would someone please post a link?
Dude, it's partiton magic ... it's given me tremendous flexibility. Sorry it isn't free; on occasion you can get it cheap.
... /opt is small ... I know, merge it with /usr and use a link!), writing a parition magic type app might be a good project.
Which brings up the question, given the *value* of filesystem flexibility (uh
I like the TNT ... except that my G200 looks better on 19" + monitors ...
I'm currently thinking that if the Metro X extreme 3D is good, I'll just get a permedia 3 and invest the $200. (+$50 for the Quake 3).
This is VERY good news
here
Left shift 1 for e-mail...
You may want to terminate the unused outputs with 75 ohm resistors.
Good to see support for the Hurd is coming. For those of you aren't familiar with the Hurd (definition below), it's a kernel that is designed to handle really heavy loads. It is entirely GPL'd. Hopefully Hurd will eventually be of Solaris quality (I know, I know, it can't be done with opensource, but we've all heard that before). It will probably fill the same niche FreeBSD fills now. Hmm, Hurd servers and Linux clients... sounds nice to me.
One great thing about Hurd is that if it do get very good features, that can be folded into Linux without a hitch.
The Hurd was originally started by GNU as part of their project to create a completely free Unix system. Linux did not exist back then, and Linus was still learning his multiplication tables. (Or maybe they are smarter in Finland by that age? I don't know.)
Linux came out of nowhere and was able to make good use of the GNU toolset. It was exactly the vision that GNU had. However, they had already started work on the Hurd, and the Hurd had (or was going to have) some features Linux didn't (and doesn't) have. I know it may seem stupid to have people working on different Unix kernels-- but this is about diversity, not one-size-fits-all. If we just wanted one nice huge kernel we would use NT.
Be warned that the Hurd is not for newbies. I tried it a few weeks ago. It was neat, although it crashed a few times (probably due to my hardware configuration). Interesting things are going to happen to it.
``Hurd: `Hird of Unix-Replacing Daemons'. (definition of `Hird' below)''
``Hird: `Hurd of Interfaces Representing Depth' (definition of `Hurd' above)''
Yup, it's the X TrueType fontserver for OS/2 again. Just how many OS/2 users browse these forums, anyway? Happy xtruetyping!
--jon. Postel is dead. May we all mourn his, and our, loss.
the link to Xfree86.org is broken...
"Although we may build the technology that we define as tools, we must be vigilant that those tools do not define us."
Anyone that supports Open Source and has a TNT probably cares. I'm glad I'm now not stuck with some code that's impossible to fix.
Force Recon Half-Life TC: Check it out
mcox.com - Useful Information re: IT, Running, Fitness, Finance, or Ann Arbor!
This is great news!
But does it also mean that the great svgatextmode program will get support for my Diamond Viper 550 any time soon?
Remco
I was stupid enough to buy Trio 3D without checking if XFree supports it (well, I did check but I guess I had a brain-fade :) so if you need beta-testers, I would be happy to help...
Obuscated or not at least they are releasing
driver source! Ask anyone who had a Diamond
Stealth VRAM what they went through trying to
run a non MS OS, or a Diamond Viper for that matter!
I credit NVIDIA with releasing anything to the public domain.