Slashdot Mirror
BFRIS Linux Game and Demo Released
Fizgig
writes "According to Happy Penguin,
BFRIS
has been released. A 20MB demo is available for
download."
Screenshots are also available for those of us without
3DFX cards. (It's actually shipping now rather than just being
Gold)
linux was supposed to stand for open systems and this game only works on one kind of card -the 3dfx -even though there are even better cards out there.
because (in my opinion) they don't look very
impressive.
Can someone who has played the game or demo post
some notes on what it's like? How does it compare
to other 3D "space-combat" games, like the latest
Wing Commander, X-Wing vs. Tie, and Decent
Freespace?
From the screenshots, it looks a bit better than
X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter (which is rather old now),
but not nearly as nice as Freespace or
Wing Commander with a 3dfx card. (I don't have a
3dfx card yet to run the demo.)
Someone tell me it's much better than the
screenshots, and a good excuse to by a Voodoo2.
(although it doesn't seem to hopeful to me.)
Thanks.
It is libc5 based; a glibc port should be coming later this week, according to the website. The unresolved-symbol issue is also on their website -- in their FAQ, even.
Yup it's true
my Monster II 3d works fine, maybe you should speak fer yerself. runs quake/quake2/qw just fine. only time it locks up is when i try to do something crazy and my system runs out of memory. its called a signal 11, i hate to tell ya but thats not 3dfx specific. and id prefer 30 fps in linux to 50 windows any day of the week. the human eye can only see 60 anyways. maybe you should help dayrll straus out with the porting of glide and not just whine about it?
Some other companies are stupid enough to use a proprietary API like Glide, which shackles them permanently to 3dfx. Aegis used OpenGL via Mesa, which is the Right Thing - it's just that no other cards support that yet.
Well looks like I am going to have to
start on that GLide to PowerSGL wrapper
for Linux. Think I should do a windows
wrapper too? Any suggestions? I am
assuming that when using VooDoo on Linux
Id has ported version of GLide. Or am
I just clueless?
the human eye can only see 60 anyways.
Yeah, but when you walk onto an ungodly large area in the map, would you rather go from 50->30 or from 30->10 ?
maybe you should help dayrll straus out with the porting of glide and not just whine about it?
Blech! Gach! Ugh! Puke!
Yeah, let's help 3dfx pimp thier proprietary API on Linux, so we too can be locked into a single 3d card choice for some games!. That would be soooo... cool. Not.
How about 3dfx getting off thier lazy fucking asses and delivering a non-beta OpenGL driver for Windows even, let alone Linux. Oh, wait, they don't want to do that - because people might not want to write to Glide then, and we can't have that, now can we?
Blech. Closed technology, closed API, closed drivers, and a management that pretty much pisses on OpenGL priority wise because of a political love for thier own closed API. Oh, yeah, and we can't forget them suing nVidia for that multitexturing patent infringment (after nVidia helped MS out with doing multitexturing in D3D) when nVidia was about to release a card better than thiers.
Don't you just LOVE 3dfx?
I've read the howto. It basically amounts to: install glide from this url, install quake, run it. It contains no useful troubleshooting tips.
Whos FUDing who? Do you think the drivers are open source? I would help if I could
you know what? no drivers! you wanna code em? go ahead. until then there are 3dfx drives, and no ones gonna code a game that cant be played yet.
I games and the people who play them!
Video games are the down-fall of linux.
I am sick of all the 3D crap out there; it all sucks. If you must play a freaking game under linux type: koules
games are for newbie lamers who can't figure anything out but the control and enter keys. Tweaking my system is 10 times more fun than any game!! plus I have something to show for it...besides high-score fame.
Forgive the rant, but frankly, the current state of video gaming convinces me to stick with the plethora classic games played on emulators. A lot of emulators work just fine on a not-too-high-end system and you don't have to be concerned with upgrading your motherboard, CPU, and video card ever 6 months. And you don't have to worry if you have the right drivers. And the games of today tend to be nothing but eye (and ear) candy. Give me classic NES games any old day of the week!
Just my take on the situation.
Don't you people see that until Linux community comes up with some standards regarding universal API for accessing sound and high speed graphics there will be no games for this platform.
Right now Linux is 10 years behind Windows - it is like DOS era all over again. Games support only specific hardware and if you don't have it, well, you are fucked ! Lack of standards is killing this platform as a usable home system.
I'm very happy. I want games for Linux. I'll
try the demo this weekend and if it's any good
I'll be ordering it. Let's SUPPORT people who
are making an effort to support Linux, by purchasing their product and posting positive comments.
I'm disappointed that the majority of comments
about the release are negative, bitchy, and whiney.
If I were a developer, and dropped by Slashdot I'd be a little discouraged. If you want Linux games, then give encouragement! The games will get better.
-dg
BFRIS? How do you say that?
B-F-R-I-S?
BeFRis?(Beverages? Bevis?)
B-Fris?
Catchy!!??????
Get real people.
Now finally a game is released for Linux and all you people start whining like little children on "It just supports one videocard", "Unless this and this appears..".
And suddenly, it's the "downfall of Linux", as one of you put it.
Like I said, get real. If you don't like games, don't play 'em.
And what happens if this developing of a universal API starts? Do we still have to wait 50 years before a small bunch of people decides what's best for us and not?
Ah well...back to Windoze for gaming then.
TNT cards are the fastest 3D cards in the world in the market today. Voodoo2 sucks. TNT runs beautifully with Xfree863.3.1. Of course it would be nice to have open source drivers buts I wouldnt make that a reason not to use TNT boards. The performance and quality you get from a TNT board is worth the trade off.
Given a game that has versions that are optimized to use TNT and Voodoo2 to their fullest, the TNT will smoke Voodoo2.
TNT allows games to be played at higher resolutions (1024x768 and up) and still get great performance. Voodoo2 would die. 2Voodoo2 may do it but why spend that money for two cards when you can buy one TNT.
This is not Linux specific, there are several games out for Windows which ONLY support 3Dfx. Tribes, Starship Command (that name may be wrong), as well as a few others.
I upgraded to the TNT, and it's great, but I have my old P166 with the VoodooRush for the few games which don't support the TNT (Tribes mainly).
(Anonymous because the account stuff didn't work)
-- Keith Moore
Senior UNIX Administrator
keith.moore@renp.com
'linux owners'?
I thought Linux was free!
yeah - one more - i havent testet i it , but i will , sure :)=
,2.43 (where is glide 3.0 ????),
i have i 3dfx card which is the better anyway.
And all you TNT suckers out there , i just have to say
that the Voodoo2 is far faster than TNT just because it has
GLIDE - do you really think DirectX or Opengl is fast ???
hahaha , and only 3dfx has this very fast glide library,
just try to program it , its just too easy.....
do not support companies that do not support linux,
3dfx has ported glide
chris
Easier or not, it's impossible to write a DirectHardware->Mesa wrapper for TNT chips right now, because TNT WON'T RELEASE THE SPECS FOR THEIR CHIPS THAT WOULD MAKE THIS POSSIBLE. Sure 3DFX has only released them to one person under NDA's, but at least they are making some option available.
- posting anonymously because I forgot who I am
Yeah, right. Where's the 3D hardware acceleration? You could use your TNT card, but you'd still be doing software rendering.
- posting anonymously because I forgot who I am
From all accounts I've heard this is true, under Windows. Unfortunately, there's no 3D hardware acceleration available for TNT under Linux at this point, because TNT hasn't bothered to make specs available for someone to write the appropriate drivers. (There might be some support in the soon-to-be-released commercial driver packages, but it won't be cheap.)
:-/
The programmers of this game didn't write it specifically for 3DFX. They wrote it for the OpenGL API, which means that it will also work with Mesa. But, since 3DFX has allowed Darryl Strauss to port Glide (3DFX's fairly low level graphics API) to Linux, and someone else (sorry I don't know his name off the top of my head) has written a Glide driver for Mesa, that means that if you have a Voodoo 1 or Voodoo 2 (not Voodoo Banshee, yet) you can get hardware acceleration. Anything else and you're basically out of luck.
BTW, I appreciate the tone of your inquiry. Other folks around here are spouting off slamming both the authors of this game AND 3DFX when they really have no clue what they're talking about.
- posting anonymously because I forgot who I am
Hmmmm, I get 53.1 fps with demo1.dm2 and :-)
51.5 with demo2.dm2 in 800x600 mode under
Linux on my dual P II 400 + 3dfx II...
not so bad
On my other Linux box (only dual P II 266),
I get respectively 41.4 and 40.1 fps.
But it's true that with the correct MTRR
settings, the performance could be even better.
The big gaming companies are not going to risk porting games to linux unless they're shown it can be done, and that there's a community that wants to play on linux rather than win9*. So instead of flaming we should encourage small companies like Aegistech, so that the big ones realise what they have to do.
Is it just me, or does it seem like 3/4 of the posts are complain about something or other.. I must come to the same old conclusion.. If you don't like the game, don't buy it.. I certainly hope this doesn't represent the feelings of the whole linux community, because as good or bad as these games may be, they will be what software companies use to judge wether or not to port their games to linux.. I suspect that if there hadn't been a linux version of BFRIS, i would have seen a petition by rabid BFRIS players begging the company to port it.. Yet here, all I see are people bitching about its flaws.. I present to you the possibility that Linux is, game-wise, where DOS was, in the early 90s.. We have some hits, some classics, and most of them are niche games.. We need to wait for some of these titles to become big, evolve, and then the video game industry under our favourite OS will boom..
Has anyone yet gotten this to run with RedHat 5.2 after replacing libstdc++ with the one they are now providing? I no longer get the unresolved symbol, but instead I get a floating point exception with a core dump. Any ideas?
Make sure you are running q2 version 3.20 with lib3dfx.so as your vid driver. I got the corrupted terminal in 3.19.
You have to settle for a lower FPS because you're a minority in the desktop (read: gaming) computer marked. Jeez.. What do you expect? They have very little to gain by optimizing drivers and cards for a very small section of their consumers, and thus they wont until linux gaming becomes much bigger.
:( )
Come on, get real. You people are expecting way to much for linux, you need to realize that you are not part of a lucrative market to hardware and
game developers, and extend ALOT more gratitude for the ports and drivers that you DO get.
schmoko (lost password. changed email
Come on guys, don't be so tough or whiny. I know that a lot of you are hackers who don't play games just because you got your systems to twick and source to hack. I know that some of you say "Why does it only support 3dfx? Why the graphics are so ugly?" and stuff. But still this is THE FIRST COMMERCIAL LINUX GAME which though has it's weaknesses is on the level with latest Windows DirectX gameing software. Better even then some of it. This is the first step in taking over the gaming market from MS. We all know that modern games are the most hardware/OS intensive software around. So why should game fans play their games on a buggy and unstable OS like Windows? Yes the gaming market was with MS for a long time because of Mr Gates's imperial company policies and that's bad enough. Give this beginning a chance won't you? I agree with one of the writers above that if Linux is to overthrow MS in gaming industry we need a standard API for graphics sound and input devices as in MS DirectX. But consider this: if game manufacturers start to make linux games even without such an API that means they find Linux better for this purpose nevertheless. Long live Linux. Let's bury MS why it didn't start to stink ( it already stinks but I don't think it is gonna smell better when dead ). Let's go with Linux in every direction of software industry from Enterprise-wide Network Management down to Live on-line XXX shows. Come on are we Linuxoids here or what? I think if Linux himself would comment on this he would not be pointing out weaknesses of the game but would rejoice at this new beginning.
To stop some people from flaming me for not mentioning anything about Doom, Quake etc. Those games cannot be considered completely Linux for you have to buy a Commercial Windows version and download a free Linux executable. And here we have a Linux game from top to bottom.
Again. LONG LIVE LINUX!!!!!!!!!
Hrm.. Well, I sent a message to tech support, but maybe someone can help me here.. It _appears_ that BFRIS is libc5.. I could definitely be wrong..
It requests libstdc++.so.27, which is in libc5 on my system.. I also get an error saying the symbol "__eh_pc" can't be resolved.
I've got a RedHat 5.1 system with glibc2, and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on how I could get it running.
TIA
Cripes.. If it's really that bad, go get a video switch. I _highly_ doubt the console is actually locking up -- just the VooDoo2 doesn't go back to pass-through mode..
/dev/3dfx drivers that allow user-level access to the card (as opposed to root-only access..)
Also, there are some nifty
Well, I got a response..
--Begin Pasting--
[snip headers]
From: Joe Waters
Hi Mike,
A couple other people have reported this problem (we couldn't reproduce it on the linux systems we had here, though the guy trying to get it to run on FreeBSD ran into it). I've placed the libstdc++ library that bfris is compiled against on my system in the download directory; it's only like 75k compressed. Let me know if that fixes your problem. Separately, we'll be releasing glibc binaries of BFRIS in the next couple of days, which should solve things one way or another.
Joe
--End Pasting--
Just curious, I don't really know that much about 'em.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Now, if only I had the hardware (a 486-66+ET4000 just doesnt cut the mustard (cheese, maybe:)).
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
Ok, using a DejaNews search I found glide.xxedgexx.com, so I know there is an experimental X11 server for the Banshee. I could not find a reference on that site to a working Glide library for Linux/Banshee... Can anyone point me in the right direction? I bought (and reviewed at my site - shameless plug) a Gigabyte Banshee board, and I'd like to make full use of it under Linux as well as Win95.
--------- Webmaster, http://www.cpureview.com and
They comment about this on their home page. Just go to the downloads page and there's info there.
something clever
As bobz said, make sure your LD_LIBRARY_PATH loads /usr/i486-linux-libc5/lib before the other glibc librarys. Make sure you set it back to what it was when you are done too.
:|
Do an ldd programname to check and make sure the program can get it's linked librarys.
I figured this out while trying to run WP8 libc5 on my RH5.1 system... hehe...
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
Help Darryl?
We all wish someone could, but he barely got the damn NDA for himself...
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
maybe its a good sign. maybe not.
Bummer. Well I may have to buy a Voodoo2 after all.
Last one in jail is a fascist.
Have you tried the magic sysrq feature in the new 2.2.x kernels? The console lockup often happens because the keyboard is left in RAW mode. There is a key combination for changing it back to XLATE.
Have you checked to make sure that your card isn't too hot? My experience with VooDoo2's says that if they aren't properly cooled then they'll lock hard. Make sure you've got adequate case ventilation, especially if you have lots of other stuff in there. VooDoo2's make great space heaters.
I play Quake2 online for an hour or more daily on my Linux system with a Voodoo2. You're doing something wrong if your system constantly locks up. Try reading the Linux Quake howto (http://linuxquake.com/howto) for a clue.
--
The Linux Game Tome
So roll up your sleeves and write a TNT driver for Mesa. That's how the 3Dfx support got there...
--
The Linux Game Tome
1. allowing the install script to install the included Mesa binaries (beneath the game directory, so you won't overwrite your real Mesa libs) /usr/local/games/bfrisdemo /usr/local/games/bfrisdemo; chmod 755 bfris (apparently the install script forgets to do this for you) ./bfris
2. setting BFRISDIR to
3. cd
4. starting the game like:
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/i486-linux-libc5/lib
I ran the game as a regular user because I have the /dev/3dfx driver installed. Not sure what I think yet. Pretty graphics. It defnitely has to be played with a joystick.
--
The Linux Game Tome
where can I find these drivers?
They sound rather good...
axolotl
I get the same problem pretty much. After it can't resolve the symbol I get a nice seg fault.
My Slashdot account is old enough to drink...
To Quote The BFRIS Web Site:
no other OpenGL/GLX drivers have been tested successfully with BFRIS at this time, if you have
something that you think might work, download and try the demo, and let us know what you find out
This is not to say that TNT will never work, merely that because it does not work with MESA it won't work right now. However, I imagine if you use XI's GL XServers with hardware support they might work.
My Slashdot account is old enough to drink...
3dfx drivers are available as tarballs, RPMs, (and probably DEBs).
The glide version, 2.53, is about 4 months older than 3.0 (the revisions on which are finally settled down), which is being ported to Linux as well.
My Voodoo 2 runs Quake 2 fine (and displays Unreal fine under Wine). If yours doesn't switch back to passthrough mode (which it won't if there's an error in the 3dfx app), besides telnetting in or blind typing you could just use a wrapper script to reset the display.
Um, no, if you read the web page, you'll see that
it requires Mesa 3.0, and that just happens to
support the 3Dfx chip, because they released
glide. So, its not a direct glide game, its an
OpenGL game, and the driver only supports 3Dfx
in accelerated modes. What this also means is
that anyone with Mesa can run the game, it'll
just run like crap without 3d acceleration!
Doh! That sucks. I have a machine capible of smooth svgalib quake2 at 800x600 but no 3dfx card... Am I missing somthing? Can I run it through mesa using raw processor power or is it based strictly on the 3dfx/voodoo directives?
I was looking forward to giving these guys my money too.
Novel theory: Modern Man evolved from psychopath
Hmmm I wish I could be sure if there is any supplemental-to-the-api action going on. (Anyone who worked on BFRIS reading this?) If not I might get some benifit from that smp mesa being worked on (I've got a dual). My last post was because I got the libc5 error and thought it was due to a failed 3dfx directive at the time.
Hey if smp mesa provides a signifigant speedup, maybe I can use it on quake as well. Then I could shout about undisputable video game improvment by switching to Linux.
Novel theory: Modern Man evolved from psychopath
Anybody have a web page where they plan to list servers? (or is it peer to peer thing? haven't gotten my copy yet)
BFRIS clans?
I am really bored of Quake2. I can't wait to destroy y'all in my brand new Zero Gravity Fighter.
While we all seem to be on the topic of Linux and 3D-acceleration, anybody tried using the new, well-priced and well-reviewed Matrox m3D accelerators? Do these work with OpenGL? Will they? Do they break various things (being a multi-heading user also, this is of concearn to me)?
This game is okay for shareware, or a technology demo.. but it's definatly not up to par with the commercial stuff.. Now if they could just take the pretty decent graphic engine they have, and make it into a Tie Fighter type game. .they could have a winner! or heck.. even something along the lines of Descent would have been better (even tho Descent makes me puke, it still does make a good seller!)
I agree, Q2 for Linux is good. But the previous poster was right, 3DFX for Linux does suck. I've had the 3DFX (RVFlash, Voodoo1 based) not give up the pass-through when Q2 crashes (or, when trying to use another VT while Q2 is running). This is pretty sloppy work here.
The framerate decrease is horrible. You'd prefer losing 1/3 of your framerate? Okay, maybe you aren't as picky as some of us but that is a HUGE framerate drop where I come from. It annoys me to no end.
And no, I can't help with Glide porting. Not yet at least. I do have respect for D. Strauss, don't get me wrong. I'm thankful to have support for 3DFX. But saying Linux supports 3DFX as well as Windows is total B.S., and anyone who says otherwise is lying. That's why I have my Win95 partition.
I believe nvidia did release what was necessary to support their cards under linux. I have to agree that it is unfortunate that only 3dfx is supported, TNT is so much nicer and costs less...
-lx
Goddam, how many posts to slashdot have a subject with its only text commenting on how dumb or crazy "you all" are!?!? Yes i am dumb and i am crazy, for godsakes!
Actually, there are a great many people, many quite experienced, that enjoy using games....just because you don't like them is a reason to completely dismiss it.
There are alot of schlock games out there....but every once and awhile there are some good things....example of some good, modern games include thief, baldours gate, Might and Magic 6, Total Annilation (sp?whatever).....some games have managed to increase in quality compared to what we used to have, but yeah, alot are complete crap.
There _are_ standards for graphics API. They aren't "universal" per say because Linux isn't a Microsoftish development where someone high up decrees that developers must use certain things. Sound I will agree has some troubles. But with Mesa/GL as a graphics standard we have no real trouble. Games don't support specific hardware under Linux. Only specific graphics hardware supports Linux. There is a big difference. All this means is that the graphics card manufacturers need to get with the program.
Let's get out some virtual beer and toast Aegis Technologies for the first Linux game. Hey, it may be no Descent: Freespace or Wing Commander, but then again, this is a startup, people. Support them. Remember that Chris Roberts started from scratch one time, too. And if you don't know who that is, he MADE the Wing Commander universe. The fact that they are on Linux shows that this company is ready to innovate.
I ordered this one 1 minute after I saw the slashdot posting. I encourage everyone who wants to see great games on Linux to kill the flames about how it isn't Wing Commander and all that and play the game. After all, the eye candy on the rendering engine has NOTHING to do with whether it is a good game.
Jason T. Collins
Games are fun for some people.If it gets more people into computers and Linux who really cares. It isn't like it will inhibit anyone from sitting around tweaking their system 24-7 if that is what they want.
There are lots of things that one can do with linux and games is a tiny portion of the larger linux stratosphere.
Games are good.
Ham radio is good.
Speech recognition is good.
AI is good.
Whatever you want to do with Linux, you will add to your enjoyment of life so who cares how people spend there time...
Games are not just for "newbie lamers" nor will Linux be brought down by Video games.
3-d is merely a stepping stone to fully holographic imaging systems.
My system is very usable as a home system, as a business system. Lack of standards is killing nothing.....
Linux is for the patient.....those who like to nurture things and watch them grow. It is for those who want to really make their computers work for them in ways nobody else thought of.
Linux may be 10 years behind windows, at least temporally, but it is way ahead of windows in capability and potential.
And linux has only just begun. And look how far it has come....I can wait cause life is long. Anything imagined can be accomplished and will be.
It doesn't matter much if its whining, flaming or praise. The cool thing is that you people care enough to even talk about it. We think that is cool. We've got plans that go far beyond BFRIS and if things work out we'll get there.
:-) To those of you who already have a most sincere and humble thanks. We needed that.
I do however come to a different conclusion: If you don't like the game, buy it anyway.
I would love to see some BFRIS clans pop up. It would be nice to watch Joe get his butt kicked for once.
-Fred