Slashdot Mirror
Slashdot infringing on Microsoft patent #US5819032
Anonymous Coward writes "After reading about Microsoft's successful attempt to patent style sheets, I tried typing the word "Microsoft" into the IBM patent server. It is amazing how many of these bloody things they are generating in the patent office. I selected a patent at random to see how "novel" it was and just by chance I fell on this one. It was filed May 15, 1996.
"
They have 25 claims with this one patent (mostly related to dragging and dropping comment files in response to articles in online magazines), with each claim being successively more inclusive. The last claim is the killer (the comments in square brackets [] are mine):
25. A subscriber system for use with an electronic magazine that is distributed from a publisher to a subscriber, the subscriber system comprising:
- a computer having a communications port coupled to a back channel to the publisher, a processor, and a display; [like a browser connecting to a web server]
- a graphical user interface executing on the processor to present a magazine screen on the display, the magazine screen containing at least one article box indicative of a magazine article; and [a browser displaying a web page]
- the graphical user interface being configured to relate time within a publishing period for the magazine to the article boxes so that when a user manipulates the graphical user interface to selectively identify different times within the publishing period, ones of the article boxes are added and removed from the screen to demonstrate which articles were published at which times within the publishing period. [clicking back and forth between back issues of Slashdot]
Again, as I said before, if it wasn't Microsoft Corp filing the patent, you kids wouldn't care. Get over it.
Geez..... Software patents really should be outlawed.
This is just ridiculous...
Kain
kain@bfg10k.smsu.edu
I'd like to see the uproar there'd be if they tried to enforce *this* one. My, there'd be riots in the streets of Redmond. ]=)
I wonder if the inventors proudly list these patents on there resume.
Microsoft is just one of a number of companies that files overly broad and frivolous patents in an attempt to scare people away. ANYONE who does this should be sent to someplace very very far away and tortured. We don't need these people in the world, we don't need them polluting our brainspace.
Yep, damn right it matters that it is Microsoft. They are so bad, it looks like they are just not going to stop their outrageous claims on everything.
Is there any other company remotely as bad? Tell me that!
That Videogate episode this past week was really just too much. Look, we already knew they were up to their usual deception, but why did it have to come off so blatantly? >:(
Having an icon asssociate a file is patented by m$! Shit! THere is another patent by ms saying that adding an icon to a tollbar is owned by microsoft. I wonder if this could be used to kill linux or force redhat and caldera to distribute linux iwthout an x server. This could be used to kill be and the palm pilot as well. I can picture Bill yelling "THose guys are stealing my money and throwing my out of bussiness by stealing the gui that we invented. How dare these mac guys come in and take it!"
Fuck Microsoft and THEIR MEDIOCRE PRODUCTS! If they ever enforce this, I will quite my IT support job and become a real estate broker or something. SCrew THEM ALL! I will not let them controll my computer and my job. ITS MY COMPUTER AND MY OS!! IF I WANT TO USE LINUX, THEN ITS MY CHOICE. I WILL QUIT COMPUTING FOREVER IF THATS WHAT IT TAKES. I WOULD RATHER HAVE NO COMPUTER AT ALL THEN TO SUBMITT TO A UNDESERVING COMPUTER COMPANY THAT DESERVES NO REWARD FOR SCREWING ME! FUCK YOU!!
aaa that feels alot better.
I wouldn't worry. You can't patent a look & feel so, unless SlashDot stole some code from MicroSoft or broke a NDA, I doubt they couldn't do squat about it.
I would imagine that most of the stupid patents are filed by big companies to keep some jerk from gaining a broad patent and suing everybody under the sun to get a quick buck. After all, someone patented recently patented the concept of "plug-ins" & "applets" and is suing MicroSoft for infringement. It just saves them time, money and negative publicity later.
Even if they did decide to try and enforce it, they would be played out as the "big bully" in the media. I bet most companies would rather let a minor infringement go by then get butchered in the media. Just ask the makers of Ajax or Toys "R" Us.
And if some idiot in one of these companies still decides to enforce it the lawyers fees would eat any money they recovered in all but the biggest of these cases.
It's actually kind of comical if you think about it. Hackers seem to be paranoid about patents from businesses & businesses are very paranoid about hackers breaking into their systems.
My $0.02
We don't need to go to a new planet, just fix this one. Shackespeare gave us the method.
"First thing we do is kill all the lawyers."
It would seem that almost any piece of software
infringes on some US patent. Thankfully most patent
owners don't have the resources to monitor whats
out there and sue.
Hello, sorry this is offtopic, but I'm looking for some background info and a tutorial for learning assembler. Could someone point me to one they think is good?
Thanks
What's so bad about the MS marketing machine is not only the damage they have done so far, but what lies ahead. Consider the recent flurry of "MS employee" posts in an older article. MS has built up a human arsenal that has convinced itself not only of the One Microsoft Way, but also that this is morally acceptable.
It is amazing how, without exception, they fail to recognize that no matter how cool or helpful they think their work is, it is built upon stolen success. And they have no problems with that. Gates and co. are clever manipulators, you have to give them that.
Patent this muthufukuh!
The Art Of Computer Programming:
Fundamental Algorithms
Learning the MIX assembly language
will teach you the fundamentals of
computers. You can't go wrong with
Knuth.
I would patent the whole open source concept and use the proceeds to fund the movement.
How would people feel about that?
I'm in the process of filing a patent for posts on slashdot.org that have no spelling, punctuation, or grammatical errors. I'll never have to bring suit against anyone.
Is going to try and use to squash Linux
as soon as the DOJ trial is over.
Look, guys, I've been saying this for a
year or more now. Microsoft's only real
weapon is Patent Litigation.
De-comoditizing protocols, a'la the haloween
memo, just isn't going to work. Open Source
developers are just too good. Remember,
the Haloween memos cited DAV as something that
OpenSource would never duplicate, and what,
a week later Apache comes out with a DAV
module?
So look for the 'Cease and Desist' letters going
out to Caldera, RedHat, Suse, and the fortune
500 as soon as the trial is over.
--cary (gotta check my medication)
Cascading Style Sheets and Extensible Style Language are two World Wide Web Consortium (http://www.w3.org/) things. Cascading Style Sheets level 2 being partially put in both 5.0 browsers. The W3C is an organization to make sure all good Internet products support some base features so one browser's HTML is not so different from another's that they will look extremely messed up on other browsers. CSS adds many useful things to HTML: ability to change a World-Wide Web site's look by changing just one *.CSS file specifically. I would be angry if any company---Microsoft, Apple, IBM, or anyone else---tried to patent an open recommendation made by the W3C---HTML, CSS, the DOM, XML, PICS, HTTP, etc. Microsoft, as a member of the W3C, approved the Cascading Style Sheets recommendation for both level 1 and the newer level 2. By approving CSS, Microsoft Corporation offically considered Cascading Style Sheets to be an industry recommendation. Netscape or some Web development tool maker should not and does not need to license CSS from Microsoft! I think I will be able to give an example of Cascading Style Sheets here. Cascading Style Sheets Example
Microsoft wasn't the one trying to patent downloading of video/audio content, now was it?
So, as you say, STFU. It just happens that he was looking into what patents MS claim, and this one came about. Stop being so fucking insecure about your choice in software companies that you need to get offended and protect them, and look at the larger issue: PATENT ABUSE.
Why are patents given on such broad terms? There MUST be a few computer-literate people on that board who understand that what they are doing is nonsense. Or is there?
There seriously needs to be some heavy reform in computer/communications related patent law. No doubt.
Question? :) Just what the hell prompted this question anyways? (Not that I mind, but I'm just rabidly curious.) Was it the STFU mnemonic? :)
*LOL* is this a troll on acid?
-kojak
Did you see the one on Data Broadcasting... ha ha, well Microsoft isn't the only company to go mad hop pattenting.
But I think we can all actually just take refuge in the fact that public outcry would make some senator (er whatever american politician role) somehow overrule it.
Remember however, this is one of the strategy's in the Halloween document that had not been explored yet. Looks like thier exploring it! Be scared? doubt it, Microsoft can't patent the entire Web (which is what the cummulative of these patents are)!
Jason
too lazy to login
That is, of course, only if you're serious.
http://www.patents.ibm.com /details?patent_number=5501650
This goes against virtually every rule in our capitalist economy. Remove patents and copyrights and you remove the ability to be rewarded for hard and innovative work. Remove incentives to work and no one will do so anymore. Bye bye, economy!
Just patent the act of submitting obvious, stupid patents. Yeah, that should stop them :)
That's probably not the case, I think they teach you to spell "patent" in Law School.
Besides that, do you have a point to make?
But it really was a scandal though. No, I'm not saying perjury. I'm saying that MS really wanted and expected that judge to buy that load of crap. BTW, can you think of a catchy name for that scandal? :)
assembler for which processor?
are you taking a class in assembler?
are you learning on your own?
the microsoft patent "speaks for itself"
no comment is necessary...
...it should be called
"The Videogates Scandal"
to pay homage to its originator...
"It would be really cool if I had a survey showing like 90% of people were for browser intergration into the OS"
-- Bill Gates
This is just one of those posts from MS employees that we read about earlier this week.
I now strongly believe that the info that you posted should be required reading before anyone starts posting uninformed dribble. Here's some additional info:
Yes, fundamental abstract algorithms or mathematical formulas cannot be patented. However, their use in specific application (regardless of interface) can be. Data compression and encryption are good examples of this.
Fundamental laws of nature cannot be patented. The only thing that confuses me about this one concerns the patenting of dna sequences.
Means of conducting business can be patented.
There is an ongoing legal debate about the validity of patenting of a well-known concept that are then ported over to a computer interface. An example is the patenting of the e-commerce shopping cart commonly found on online stores. The validity of these types of patents is a major issue that the courts will have to decide.
Finally, one must look at all the components of a patent before screaming "prior art." Many individual components have prior art; just look at the various referenced patents that are listed with a patent application. However, it is the total package that matters.
Please correct any mistakes that I have made. Rob should put together a FAQ concerning patents (or have a link to a FAQ).
I think ultimately as soon as Microsoft has the government eating out of the palms of their hands they'll take all these patents and shut down every OS that infringes upon their patents or at least make them pay MS for using their "technologies".
Forgive me if I'm wrong but wasn't the MacOS around way before Windows 3.0 was released? (3.0 was its initial release wasn't it?) So therefore Mac would be up for those patents not MS... right?
There are so many trivial and useless patents out there the entire system has done nothing but destroy its own validity. Simply ignore the patents and go on with life as normal. There's nothing anyone can do if a million people ignore the patent as if it wasn't there! It's time to bring down the patent system and show them what a useless government system it is.
Nice thing about Linux, who are you going to sue? And even if you close down a project in the states, it can just be taken up in Denmark or somewhere.
Time to start flooding the patent office with tens of thousands of patents for things that we've been using for decades. Patent using wires to transmit data. Patent displaying stuff on a screen. Patent everything. I bet you a good percentage of these bogus patents would go through, then you could have a field day sending everyone "Cease and Desist" letters.
Excuse me, I have to go patent the wheel.
Well america never stop astonishing me. Patent everything. Even human life! This is America. And America is also:
-Crazy gunlaws
-Killing children
-Where you can buy yourself free(O.J)
-Killing their own presidents
-Where the sex life of the president seems to bee the most important issue
-Where people get filthy rich (like B.Gates) and the next fellow lives in a paper box
-Tried to bomb a 3rd world contry back to the stone age
-Where preachers beg for mony on TV so that they can continue their lives i luxuary
-Where they spool out TV series that are so bad that it is embarrassing to watch
-Where there are more percent fat people than anywere else.
-Where doctors get killed by anti-abortion extreemists.
-Where an european girl gets arrested bacause she was sunbading topless
-Where Reagan was elected as president
-Supporting fascism activly in other contrys
-Make life a hell for people that thinks differently
-Telling other what is best for them
-Have no culture (exept for Disney of course)
-Shouting like spoiled brats
-Where there are a law for everything
-And more, more, more
So you should be pissed off by this, but surprised? No, I guess it is just America.
If Microsoft, or anyone else applying for these lame "pecker wiggling" patents (PWP) was making any real significant innovations, then presumably they wouldn't waste everyone's time with these lame efforts that never stand up when challenged anyways. Of course if the patent office had a clue they'd never award things that can so easily be challenged and overturned. The US Government seems to be living in the Stone Age!
Presumptious git.
"Presumptious git." s/Presumptious/Presumptuous/
Right, it wasn't political. But it was important. As the government lawyer pointed out to the MS witness, the courtroom was not the typical opportunity where MS can get away with deception, such as their marketing, etc. It was court. And their attempts merely showed how much contempt they have for the law. So, like Watergate, VideoGates, is important in showing how power corrupts.
Assembler? Assembler? What pray-tell is Assembler? An Assembler is a program for compiling assembly code. To that end I can only assume you meant assembly.
Well then, what kind of assembly? There are many type of chips out there today, each with their own assembly language. Please be a little more specifc.
I'd say go with Alpha assembly if you are going to learn any. It's very clean and elegant.
It's called InterCapping.
Windows 3.0 was not the first release. There were indeed 1.0 and 2.0 releases (as early as '85) - however, they both flopped; 3.0 was the first "successful" release (quickly followed by 3.1, however).
Plus, GEM (for both DOS and the Atari) and the Amiga were around.
These patents are, um, patently ridiculous, I agree. Getting them overturned will take money and the courts, but, the broader they are, the more they affect companies like Apple and IBM (and perhaps even Sun, etc.) - companies that will probably not bend-over-backwards for MS (anymore), so the enforcement of these patents by MS will probably be difficult, to some extent. However, for the smaller developer(s), this is still a problem.
To agree with earlier comments: the U.S. patent system (and in particular, the US Patent Office - corrupt, under-staffed, under-paid, under-brained morons that they are) could use a not-so-minor overhaul (at the very least).
MP3 sites are reselling music. I don't recall any MP3 site that is saying "we created this music independently of the artist who copyrighted it".
Technology is very different than music and the courts haven't really been strict when it comes to extremely broad patents. I would be much more worried about the Wine project drawing MS fire than SlashDot ever could.
And if SlashDot was sued, how many news sites would butcher MS in the press. The court of public appeals is VERY important to a company. Especially MicroSoft right now. I would also imagine that you could also countersue for lost income & hardship. I'd bet you wouldn't need to look too hard to find a lawyer willing to take the case on a settlement basis.
One of the problems with the U.S. Patent office IS that they are inundated with patents.
"Dear RedHat bigshots: you are distributing software that infringes on our patents. Cease and desist at once."
Of course we all know why Microsoft is getting these "duh" patents. Once Linux et. al. becomes mainstream and Windows dies, they will have a way to extort more money from the innocent citizens. Perhaps they will get patents on all kinds of things everyone uses and eventually charge big bucks for them.
"Muahahaha, soon I will patent breathing and the world will be mine!!!"
--Bill's evil twin
Unfortunately, it doesn't matter. If there has never been a patent for, say "a device used for transportation consisting of a motor, a passenger compartment, and four wheels" I could patent the car if I felt like it, and then charge every car manufacuterer for every car they make. The mp3 community just found this out the hard way when Fraunhofer (however it's spelled) patented the mpeg layer 3 format, even though it had already been in use. I believe some other company patented the LZW compression scheme after-the-fact, causing the ruckus with the .GIF format a few years ago.
MY father told me that someone patented the song happy birthday years ago and back in the 1970's a telivision show was sued by the owner of "happy birthday" becasue they sung the song in the show. The fact that I have to pay someone money to sing happy birthday at a party is rediculous.
It's copyrighted, not patented. (I think the copyright has almost expired, or may have expired by now.)
You don't have to pay someone to sing it at a party. You are supposed to pay a royalty for a public performance, which a private party ain't, but a TV show is.
One of the advantages of the open source model
- Just release everything and don't give a tiot*
about the patents...
It becomes impossible to clamp down on
them if the world is using them for free...
Anyway, if the US patent system gets too silly,
all the other countries will ignore it - they
all think the first to invent system is silly
anyway.
*( like ghoti==fish, but with excrement)
Well, I guess you would have to be a "far left" liberal to think that the United States of America is a democracy. It is not.
A "far right" conservative who also voted.
This commentary is all very well and good, but the fact remains that VideoGates will not die out anytime soon. But let us not forget that it was just sloppiness on MS's part. They actually can lie much better than that.
Um, that Quarterdeck program was DesqView wasn't it?
Well, I'm taking a class in assembly right now. We're using Computer Organization & Design by David Patterson and John Hennessy. It's a great book for making the transition from higher-level languages to assembly and machine code. It assumes that you have a basic understanding of higher-level programming and uses C for its examples.
The book also focuses a on hardware operations, which is essential to a good understanding of assembly. They use MIPS assembly in this book. For this you would do well to get Spim, which simulates a MIPS machine and allows you to debug your asm code. Spim is available for Unix/Linux in both X and text versions, and for Dos and Windoze as well. If you're not so worried about learning asm for a particular architecture and just want to get the basics, this book/sw combo seems to work pretty well.
Why doesn't someone patent the act of filing a stupid patent. The owner of this patent should claim 10,000,000,000,000$ for each stupid patent claimed.. if that hasn't already been patented.
But then there's the problem with prior art though, but do they care?
Yeah, but someone somewhere will have done this in some university somewhere years before this patent was filed. Remember a patent is null and void until proven, look at apple & microsoft over the gui!! really it was invented in 1960 something!!!
Even Government legislation is subject to testing - did you see the one on controlling a computer, no matter what the os, by a graphic display over internet technology????
Well you can not patent this idea... You may have patented the wqay to do this but the idea goes way back in time. If you think of it the people of the past used "icons" to represent things. This is what icons are. They represent a program as icons of the past were used to represent things. Thus you can not patent that idea. Microsoft if ya try to take some one to court on this ya know you will not win. All ya ever did was backstab companys (as you did IBM bill). Now make way cause the new way of oss are coming in and they are going to blow you right out of the god damn water microsoft and none of your programmers will be able to find jobs because they would be known for making bad products. Why must you control everything ? I hope you get your ass kicked in by Linux.
There are 2 reasons that this doesn't aply to linux. The first is that it is only illigal if you make money off of it. And companys like redhat and debian don't make money off of linux, they make money off of tech support. The other is that I havn't seen, in linux, an icon representing a file. The only icons in X are ones for programs that are running, that that means it is an icon representing a memory area.
I'm sure that one could waste many hours while Patent Surfing...
US5819372: Butt hinge with integrally formed butt straps (Microsoft)
USD0276561: Naval lint removing pick (Belcher; Larry M.)
So the question is, why does it work? why is it the most powerful, technology savvy, hip place on the planet?
Its a funny thing other nations and foreigners criticising America, sort of like jealous little brothers and sisters picking on the biggest. Other nations watch their economies stagnate while their telcos and growth industries are bought out by American multinationals. People everywhere dream the "American Dream" more now than ever. American freedom of speech is enshrined in law, not a "working principle" like everywhere else. Working principles could be overturned in days by an unsettled government.
Your criticisms are trivial, spat out by an overhyping (British?) media machine. Who cares about these little things? The vast majority of Americans lead secure lives filled with material possessions (well, would you rather own stuff or not?), with more constitutionally guaranteed (and culturally enshrined) freedom than you will ever know.
Admit it. You're jealous, and too dumb to get a greencard.
nuff said
"Oh, ASM. How 1980s."
--BritBloke
"The patents are popular among the contributors to their reelection..."
It's not that simple.. without trying to sound too anti-American, this is a case of "image building"; that is, how on earth do you think the U.S. is able to claim its inventive/intellectual superiority each year? By allowing the filing of overly broad and frivolous patents so that each year the U.S. can say, "Uh-ha! We've registered so many thousands more patents than anyone else!"
Thankfully, unlike copyright, patents registered in the United States are not automatically protected in other countries globally (that's why we can use RSA without paying anyone). That also explains why the Unisys LZW patent covering GIF doesn't bother us, and why.. and why.. and.. and..
Sorry, but I don't see anyone in the U.S. government leaning on the patents office to be more "realistic" when it could mean a lowering of the United States' patent registrations.
(And you wonder why some people, even in Western democracies, are so anti-American..)
Buy some moon. Moonshop.com (has answers to all your questions too). So what if you'll never go there in your lifetime, it's cool, and hey, your grandkids will make a fortune off it.
Dan Schleifer
For a quick and dirty start on i386 asm. try this:
s es/cs327/assembly/assembly.html
http://blondie.mathcs.wilkes.edu/~sullivan/cour
This assumes some understanding of things like registers and addressing modes, but even without them it's a help.
Will
prior art
A patentable device or process having to be
non-obvious to one skilled in the art?
Most of the patents I've heard about recently
can't possibly pass the tests of prior art either.
Evidently, the bureaucrats at the Patent and
Trademark Office are a bunch of drooling idiots.
How can they hope to recognize absurd patent
claims when they can't even differentiate between
a new idea and one they encounter every day?
Surely you mean BiCapitalization. Though I tend to call 'em StUdLyCaPs if they look stupid enough, even when not applied at random.
If:
a- patents are important to promote innovation.
and
b- Micosoft patents to protect their innovation
then
Why Didn't Microsoft Patent the 'integration' of the browser into the OS?
:)
The whole point of a patent is to offer the holder a monopoly on creation and use of the invention (in return for "publishing" it in an enormous dead-tree database almost nobody can comfortably use). "But it's free!" is not a defense in an infringement suit. Remember how much trouble MIT had offering PGP even though RSA was originally theirs? That was free....
Not necessarily, but that's usually the way to bet. Furrfu, what kind of nerd can't even type?
In what sense is Mars a chance to "start over"? Will there be an IQ minimum for immigrants? What we need to do is send the telephone sanitizers, executives, patent clerks, and spammers to Mars "ahead of the rest of us," on the B Ark... by way of M31.
Each!
Not only that but David Kirk, Editor of Graphic Gems III, who's name is on the patent for texture mapping from when he was working at HP after they bought Apollo, told me that once a year, the lawyers from HP and IBM get together and value each others patents, then which ever company has less valued patents (usually HP) pays the other company the difference and they then agree to cross licenses all their patents too each other so that latter down the road they don't have to worry about legal issues.
That would be Welch, of Sperry (now Unisys). But LZW was patented beforehand, it's just that nobody really noticed, and when people told CompuServe about it they didn't do anything right away (it helped that the Datamation article about it didn't mention the patent; what a sleazeball).
IIRC patentable inventions must be both novel and non-obvious to a person of ordinary skill, and even in the US you can't patent an invention published or put into widespread use more than a year ago. Maybe there are loopholes, though.
Amiga superior to Windows/386? How? They were stuck with the same MMU-less 680x0s Macs used back then, didn't they?
Every application costs hundreds if not thousands of dollars (over US$4,000.00 if it actually issues). Have fun.
Civil disobedience only works if
I don't think we have either of these....
The trial should be over, and any and all charges made against Microsoft, should be dropped, and voided, with an apology to Bill Gates and Microsoft.
Microsoft is doing what any other business does, and should not be singled out for wrong doings.
If the other Computer companies want to do what Microsoft is doing, then they should get busy creating a better produce, their own computers, and marketing it the best they can, as a competitor, not a compaliner.
The US Government and those pressing this lawsuit against Microsoft, should be more concerned about the lousy person we have as President, and clear the White House of the blight it has on it.
God Bless Bill Gates, and his Microsoft company of brilliant employees, and more power to the production of the Best Product, which the others are crying about.
Surely, somewhere, there are smart enough lawyers that can clear Microsoft of any wrong doing, and let Microsoft get back to work as normal.
Bill, get other lawyers that can surpass the current ones.
I have an idea!! lets punish the guy who is better at something by forming a rediculous trial and throw a wrench into today's open standards by creating our own css. Then since everyone will now have their own css we can surely win. The guinesses at microsoft saw this and said "hu. I will show them." and they patented css to enforce the open standard and throw out the innovator wantabee's like sun and adobe. Microsoft has done nothing wrong and I am not flaming but rather just stating my opinion. ITs the linux freaks are the flamers. U jsut state a honest opinion and these linux fanatics go nuts! You all believe in good code right? THEN WRITE A BETTER OS AND STOP COMPLAING!! I just ran quake on linux and windows and windows totally kicked butt. At default resolution and the smallest possible screen size I had 23 fps on linux. On full size I has around 48 fps. On windows I had 30 fps on the smallest screen size and over 52 fps on the largest. WOW! If linux can;t even handle games, then how can it handle real work? If you notice the fps lagged 7fps on the high end and around 3 or 4 fps on the low end. This tells me that the larger the load the more linux lags behind, showing that linux is unscalable. Think about how long a huge 3d animation would take on linux if the larger the load the worst the performance would get. WIndows would just seem faster and faster on huger and huger loads. According to zdnet, windows NT on a 3,000 computer can beat a 8,000 risc based workstation running unix on cad applications. THATS RIGHT!! The editors were in shock. I forgot the url but www.microsoft.com has saved the linked because it shows hwo good their products really are. Just look in the windows NT section and do a comparison.
Wait untill you see the media slashdot gets when this guy goes up to Redmond and start's unloading his AK-47!
Get a life.... more importantly, get a future...
Close. Actually, Microsoft is like all political parties in that it is OK for the reason-impaired, but empty and outdated for those who can think for themselves.
So the question is, why does Microsoft exist? why is it the most powerful, wealthy, pervasive software company on the planet?
OK, so I get the Microsoft thing. Very good. I am in no way a Microsoft employee. But this was really an attack on the preceding rant against America. Which was, in my opinion, (and I am not American), way over the top. Topless sunbathers? Crazy talk. Imagine if you did that in Iran.
Problem with Microsoft is, they try to dominate. Like a repressive regime. Which is not what America is. Imagine if the US government actually classed operating systems as a munition. They are a pretty crucial thing in warfare. If this happened, they would be guilty of behaving like Microsoft, and people could criticise America in general. As it stands, Microsoft (a very successful company, bringing mucho $$$ into the US) is under frontal assault by the DOJ. If you think America is a joke, think about that for a second.
First of all, the economies of other nations are not stagnating while their "telcos and growth industries are bought out by American multinationals".
Well, most of the world (apart from America) is in negative or zero growth at present. South East Asian and latin American financial institutions are in ruins. Europe is slowing or stopped. The one thing driving the world economy is huge expenditure by cashed up Yanks who have taken profit from vast speculative gains in the sharemarket. When the bubble bursts things will change. But the rest of the world may suffer more than America.
And come on. America effectively owns the Internet as it stands. It also owns the bulk of very high technology development. Don't think Microsoft. Think General Electric, IBM, Boeing, Lockheed, Raytheon, 3M. Not to mention MIT, Berkely, Los Alamos Labs. Be certain that as new stuff is developed, it will be patented and exploited by US (or affiliated multinationals), to milk the fat from the rest of the world. (Troll alert: sentence following)And why not bleed them? After all the winner is the guy who dies with the most toys.
As for telcos, think about MCI. And on a wider scale what I say is true. Australia has had American pension funds buy big chunks of its telephony system. Our telcos are managed by Americans, who speak American corporatese. Vodafone have appeared from nowhere to be a big brand name now.
Your criticisms are trivial, spat out by overhyping (trolling?) self-importance. Who cares about these little things? The vast majority of Windows users lead secure lives filled with jobs where they use these systems (well, would you rather have a job or not?), with more legally guaranteed (and financially enshrined) security than you will ever know.
Hmmm. Its getting very hard to tell these days what is a troll and what isn't. I kind of troll off in one direction and people flame away in another. What do you reckon, are Windows users happy people? Happy But Dumber? Most of them probably have nice cushy jobs, and make lots of money, and most of them are in America.
Second of all, your comments about freedom of speech are (possibly) valid but nevertheless irrelevant. The American government, freedom of speech, etc, are quite fine and not at issue. At issue is the quality of life, as evidenced by crime rates, by the television quality, by the arcane laws and regulations, by the incredible absorbtion in the ridiculous "impeachathon" and so on.
Irrelevant? Bloody hell, they are crucial. Sure America doesn't have everything right. But it has the basics right. How relevant are Monica and strange legislation anyway. How relevant is "television quality"? Hahaha. Americans really do have nothing to complain about. Have you checked American crime rates recently? They are tumbling. Why? Concealed carry laws and better economic conditions, mostly the latter.
Admit it. You're jealous, and too broke to buy a copy of Windows.
In my case, I pirated it, and later ftped Linux to save the cost of the CD. And yeah, I'm too dumb to get a green card. :-)
Right now some company has just got the patent for a growth hormone that is produced when you are a fetus, its codenamed "hedgehog" and dispite the fact that you or I or everyone on earth produced this naturally during our embryo and fetus stage they got exclusive rights to using it!!! Can you image some lawyer might make a judge order all of us to pay that company a fee for using "their" product before we were even born! Before you laugh this could happen... the growth factor exists and there is a patent on it...
I would patent the whole open source concept and use the proceeds to fund the movement.
How would people feel about that?
I'd think you're just shooting your mouth off and haven't thought this through. If you patent open source and charge it is not
open source anymore, now is it? Who would you charge? Users? They wouldn't buy the software. Developers? Why charge them if you are going to turn around and fund them. Because of overhead associated with managing money, developers would end up paying money for the priviledge of developing software.
I wonder of the DOJ can use these patents in their case against MS. If the DOJ could show that these patents are overly broad in scope, they might be used a further evidence of MS's monopolistic behavior. By accumulating overly broad patents for preexisting technology, a case could be made that they are trying to exert monopolistic control.
I'm not a lawyer. Can anyone comment?
John Zachary
first off, in any capitalist society property rights derive from the real world, not from federal fanticies
(eg. the foundation of property derives from the fact that it's physically limited)
second, intellectual "property" defies one of the most fundamental laws of free market economics - the law of supply and demand, with information and other intangibles the supply tends to approach infinity so the demand goes to zero, but peoples time and services are limited in supply - thus in a true free market society a person could charge by the hour to paint a painting, but would not be entitled to "ownership" of digital transmissions of that painting.
third, the very nature of patents and copyrights is monopolistic, and one backed by the government at that. Sounds more like a form of social economic controlls than a capitalist foundation if you ask me.
if you want to be a communist, then fine - but at least be honest about the fact.
an auto company may leave out a life saving device because it is too much to pay the patent on it,
a pharmacutical co may be pressured to make and market unsafe drugs because they wont pay royalities over better alternatives, with AIDS the situation is even worse - the expense is orders of maginitude because companies won't cooperate, and people die because they cant afford it all.
Microsoft does not own the net. The majority of web servers run unix. Css should be awarded to microsoft since they were the ones early on who tried to adopt it. The reason why their are several standards is because of pure jelousy on the part of their compititors. Microsoft had to patent css to create a standard. After all It would be a shame if nothing worked together. YOu should give microsoft some credit. Before ms was around the computer world was a mess. Everyone had different computers running different os's and different software packages. If their was a really cool game that your friend had..opps you just bought the wrong pc and now you have to buy a second pc just to play your friends game. It was awefull. Microsoft fixed everything by saying "this is what everyone is going to use.". After that all the software was developed for dos. People could share data on diskettes and Bill probably saved the mac by being the first and believe only company to develop software for it back in 84. Also Microsoft products seem to run better on my pc. Quake flies much quicker and netscape takes forever to launch on linux. I stated earlier that I found windows more scalable with high end graphics. No one has seemed to refute me yet. Linux can be a kickass product with some more work. Untill linux becomes faster I will continue to use windows for most of my computer needs. Also the gcc acts real funny on my machine with a whole bunch fatal signal 11 errors. I noticed when I try to recompile somtething multiple times, the compiler seems to stop at different places with the signal 11 error and something about program cc. If any of you know what is going on, please tell me. I think I will wait another year or so before all bugs are worked out of linux and gcc. It looks pretty good and I am very impressed (even though I am a ms supporter)
The never ending jelousy and radicalism by microsofts compititors like Netscape will never end. Netscape made css on purpose. THis is anti-competitive and illegal. The wc3 was bought by anyone but microsoft. Microsoft still has some seats their but if you read zdnet you will se they were practically ousted. Microsoft is just doing what any bussiness would do when they are under attack. I dont use microsoft products under linux becasue the linux people made it hard on purpose to run windows programs. Microsoft has well docuemented info for programmers about com and dcom and even offered the servers for unix. I believe www.freashmeat.net has this programing aip for linux. Microsoft has tried countless times to get netscape to use activex but they refused. ALot of editors pointed out that navigator 4.0 and 4.5 are the most proprietary browsers yet. Microsoft has tried to innovate but no one will take its offering. WHo's fault is it? Microsoft or its compititors? Microsoft is the one and only company people should trust to run their software. Using all microsoft products you can communicate with the world and not have to worry about compadiblities. Microsoft is the one who got standards and their is no reason to turn back. Just look at IBM. Before ms, IBM was the standard and the one who brought the pc revolution to everyone. If it wasn't for IBM and microsoft, linux wouldn't exist and the pc revolution never would of happened. People thought computers were toys are silly overly priced calculators. Good for microsoft. THe reason why the oem's never complained in its court case is because Microsoft made them. WIthout ms they would never exist. Oem's are shooting themselves in the foot for including linux. The only they include it is because customers demand it becasue its free. Linux is not even fast enough for quake! sorry guys but ms is still the innovator.
Microsoft relies on BIM for their mster data backups. If ms lost everything , we could easily convince IBM to just happen to Lose them:-) They would see this opertunity as a way to win and finally knock ms on its butt. hehehe GO with the idea It woulod cause a few weeks delay and creat more bad press forr ms. Make sure you do it late at night so you wont get arrested. If you know where microsoft records the surviliance, the you can delete the security video tapes and ms will have no idea what the hell happened. hehehe
:-(. IT might even pull the screw out. hehehe good luck
I would be laughing my ass off if all 50,00 computers were trashed. You will need one hell of a pwerfull magnet though. If you have a huge and I mean huge magnet and its a super conductor, then it just might work. It wouldnt suprise me if even a rather small sized magnet could delete everything if its a super conductor and a shit load of current is going in it. IT will screw up the van though
> By not reading this message you agree to sell me your whole family for $2.
Sounds like a good deal. Where do I send them?
Wonder if this is the start of MS trying to redefine the internet standards, as revealed in the Halloween documents.
look @
http://jya.com/ebomb.htm
there is all u ever need to know about...
Quite a kick getting your picture on the web back than.
Sigh.
The good old days...
uhh...the guy was replying to the poster who ranted against the MS patent story, and said "grow up kids, who cares?" So this guy merely states he's not a kid, and he does care about MS filing patents such as this one, and along comes you with your haughty attitude throwing around your income as part of your ego-trip. sheesh. Maybe buy some classes in reading comprehension and context.
...so, this would apply to a threaded Usenet reader application like trn or tin?
OK, prior art here.
A hahahahahahahahahahahaha....
Athens used a direct democracy, where all citizens could vote on matters of public policy. A majority of Americans want the impeachment fiasco dropped, but our government is self-righteously ignoring that majority.
For that matter, in Athens only adult male non-slaves could vote. In America, theoretically, almost everybody over 18 can vote.
Get it right.
First do any of you work for M$, like maybe in their marketing department. If you want ActiveX in Navigator get the source and put it in if it is so well documented.
Assuming that Slashdot was the first such 'magazine' to be 'published' electronically, wouldn't they have the patent voided if Slashdot predated the application?
please read it ppl, it dosn't apply to slashdot. it dosen't even come close. please read it carefully then read up a little on pattent law. then when you are done hopefully you will realize how far off from slashdot this pattent is.
(see all the EmbeddedCaps :)
Read Heinlein's 1953 Revolt in 2100, now more than ever.
If that snippet above makes it look like the patent applies here, this one doesn't:
No icons here.
Mind the Gap
It's not whether Microsoft or someone else, this
is getting seriously on my gingiva. Guess one
should seriously kick the patent-offices into
their scrotum. Abolish them.
"The more prohibitions there are, The poorer the people will be" -- Lao Tse
Nah, watch discovery channel. Whenever they do some space travel/colonization piece, they have this guy that sells land on the moon, mars, etc.
People will sell (and buy) anything.
Why would it be a cone? Assuming your yard is a rectangle, then it would just extend straight up, not conularly. And if it was coned, your neighbor would also have a cone, and the two would intersect... Too many compliations there.
I've known many a great engineer, and the pride that goes into securing a patent for your work. Much time, money, and effort goes into what used to be considered a system of giving credit to great minds and ideas.
Enter Microsoft. The only work they put into their patents was the idea of patenting something that no one else has. Again, we can see that the Microsoft corporation is based soley on marketing, not on furthering technology, helping others, or even producing helpful software. How dare Microsoft make a mockery of the patent process. How dare the individual(s) responcible for allowing them to patent such rubbish make these actions, eventhough I'm sure they were under much -persuasion-.
Ok, this is ridiculous. I should patent "autonomous atmospheric ingestion follwed by O2 removal and CO2 expulsion by bipedal mamals" (breathing) and collect a royalty of $0.0001 per breath! Or get injunctions to stop people from utilizing my patented method!
--------- Webmaster, http://www.cpureview.com and
At the local level, voters sometimes have access to issues (such as voting for a tax increase to fund a public stadium for the (almost) exclusive use of the Denver Broncos) that aren't rerouted through representatives.
You're right, though, we aren't true to the Athenian way of doing things. I stand corrected.
No better time than the present to try Microsoft's patents. If they don't defend them then they are for naught.
Overturn bogus patents.
Codifex Maximus ~ In search of... a shorter sig.
Posted by pennacook:
:)
with this supposed GUI infringement - what would deja news be then? don't they have a fashion of posting present and past articles from practically every newsgroup known on the hierarchy? even microshaft??? ugh - i think m$ needs a good boot to the head!!
mho
pennacook
The /. community has expressed it's concern about stupid patents very voiciferously regardless of the patent filer. As evidence of this I would say that you ought to RTFM.
That ought to hold you for a while. And these are just recent discussions.
This is dammed unfair. Third party candidates not only can't win (which is to be expected, a bit), but they also can't even get any notice at all because those who vote for them get their votes erased by this messed up system. So if a candidate has like 10% of the popular vote, it looks like he has 0% instead. This prevents anyone not in the big 2 from getting any noteriety at all. A slow buildup of support for a new party, year after year, is literally impossible when everything small rounds down to zero.
The electorial college made sense back when getting a real count of the votes was technologically infeasable. But today it makes no sense at all. At the very least they could stop rounding entire states to 0% or 100%, such that if a candidate gets 20% of the vote, then he gets 20% of the electors from that state. That would be sensible, but this is America. Land of the status quo.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
That ain't right.
TedC
Huh? Wouldn't prior art be quicker, easier, and cheaper to create than a frivolous patent and provide just as much protection? I really doubt that these companies have any good intentions.
-----
Free P2P Backup, Windows & Linux
Hey, this game is becoming dangerous.
We must dump patents NOW - or they'll dump all creativity and intelligence on Earth.
Cesar Cardoso can be found at cesar at zyakannazio dot eti dot br (or at least I believe so)
US patents are scary ...
I think I'll patent taking a shit ... then everybody who will take a shit from now on will have to pay me a $1 for the privilage ... I don't want much ... and I just want what is rightfully mine for the idea of patenting it ...
Not really. I would think it was just a stupid, inane, and moronic if it was done by any other company. The fact that it happens to be Microsoft just reinforces the idiocy and monopoly of Microsoft.
If it came to trial, I think the patent would just be found illegitimate, due to Prior Art. Big deal.
Run a pencil-and-paper RPG campaign with your far-off friends: Gametable!
"It uses that Athenian form of government called Democracy"
Actually, We are a Democratic-Republic, which is rather different than a true Democracy. We vote for representatives, who have free reign to do whatever they want (which is what they SHOULD do, not pander to the popular vote).
I have to say that I sure am glad that the government doesn't decide who sleeps in a box and who gets to buy an island, though. Pinko COMMIE!@#^%^!@!~~!Q1``
Run a pencil-and-paper RPG campaign with your far-off friends: Gametable!
"-Have no culture"
Man, we have TOO MUCH culture. "Culture" is way overrated. Preserving culture is just annoying. Why not just do what we like, and let that be our "Culture" instead of trying to act like our ancestors, or whatever silly things people try to do? WHO CARES what language you speak? WHO CARES what you wear? WHO CARES what you eat, as long as you enjoy it all? I like diversity to the point of eliminating "culture." Asians that talk with southern accents... White people who talk with asian accents... YES! Bring it on!
Run a pencil-and-paper RPG campaign with your far-off friends: Gametable!
Slashdot should patent something similar but pointing out the use of Anonymous postings. Slashdot is the first such web-based-news service to offer anonymous replies that I'm aware of.
;-)
Just an idea. Probably a bad one...
Matt.
--
Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
> a whole bunch fatal signal 11 errors. I noticed
> when I try to recompile somtething multiple
> times, the compiler seems to stop at different
> places with the signal 11 error and something
> about program cc. If any of you know what is
> going on, please tell me.
This is most likely a problem with your hardware. Check out the GCC Signal 11 FAQ for more info.
Shee's it says the filing date is 1996.. as far as I can remeber BBSes, AOL, Prodigy, Compuserve and many many others have been around way before 1996.
AOL , Comopuserve and Prodigy were gui driven and carried articles and magazines from various print companies. So what's new here?
-Ex-Nt-User
As I commented on the current poll, everyone needs
a good laugh once in a while.
I'm not the person that originally asked, but if anyone knows, I would also appreciate a good reference/tutorial on assembly language.
Specifically, assembly for the Intel x86 microprocessor. I'm sure there's a glut of stuff out there, but does anyone have any reccomendations?
I'm fine with high-level languages, and have some experience with the Motorola Z80, so am not looking for a "beginner's" book, but something that assumes familiarity with high-level languages (C/C++ is fine), and some understanding of assembly would be ideal.
Any ideas? TIA
- Sean
- SeanNi
- SeanNi
- #include "standard_disclaimer.h"
I believe you only own the air above your land up to a certain height (can't remember what that height is, something like a mile or 2, I think). Above that, nada.
   - Sean
- SeanNi
- SeanNi
- #include "standard_disclaimer.h"
Videogate, patentgate, evasivegate, lyingassgate...
The Assembly-HOWTO is a rich source of leads for the particular processor implimentation you wish. Remember, that with each GNU assembler package, you will find a wealth of documentation in the tarball and the author's web page. Plus there is the ever handy google web page and dejanews powersearch (the regular search seems to be too dumbed down lately.)
:)
BTW: I have a wealth of Z80 proggies and many with a GUI system (with mouse!) built in. I can post them on my web page if there is interest. I don't know if anyone still designs with the old reliable, but cumbersome Z80. All that and the largest program was 2000 lines!
>Well america never stop astonishing me. Patent everything. Even human life! This is America. And America is also:
Welcome to America. World Domination. In this great country of America, we were all taught in our history books at a young age that our ascestors came over here on ships from England. It was easy to get a pass if you were a criminal or undesired. So a lot arrived on this contenent and had problems getting along with the Native Americans (indians.) Furthermore, some enterprising imigrants passed by Africa and kidnaped people of identifiable color for lifetime slavery. Let me tell you, talking about all this stuff is pretty much taboo here. But you get the idea. Some things never change. But they should.
Bill Gates is one of the last fucking assholes alive.
And this has happened with Linux. Some nut unwisely decided to just register the trademark of Linux and harass distros. The blind distribution by the patent office costs everyone. Its good business if you are a lawyer. Its not good business if you have to cave in to the extortion from all sides and have to pay "protection" for something you thought was common sense.
In the information age these two legal constructs are anachronisms. We should begin phase out of the Patent and the Copyright and replace them both a GNU-GPL flavored legal construct.
As for M$, they would make an ideal place to begin the phase out. As part of the remedy in the federal anti-trust trial, M$ patents should all become public property. Each new M$ copyright would only have a duration of 3 years.
Sound resonable?
What do you think he is investing in anyway?
Soon patenting DNA sequences will also belong to Bill. He will own your desktop and your DNA too.
Bitcoin pyramid: Join here: http://www.bitcoinpyramid.com/r/1427 it's FREE!
Oh yeah, and to that troll who said no-one would care if it wasn't Microsoft: go **** off. Everyone agrees that broad patents suck, regardless of what company files them.
David E. Weekly (dew)
David E. Weekly
Code / Think / Teach / Learn
h4x0r for
Just change the graphic so that the "R" is a little higher and looks like a middle finger
support gun control: take guns from cops
I submitted this one, and I think it's VERY relevant.
According to the Arcana Mailing List the culture in the U.S. Patent office calls for approving more and more patents, and they're already approving 80% of patent submissions. Here's a cool excerpt from these E-mails from people who've worked for the patent office:
> This needs to be made clear to more people. The Patent Office is heavily
>biased towards rewarding examiners who allow a lot, and it is creating a
>culture to match. Unfortunately, our 'customers' are collectively paying
>the higher costs of confusion and legal help to sort the whole mess out.
At one time a, b, and c was the correct form and somewhere in the 50's and/or 60's it changed to a, b and c. That was in the U.S. of A., your nationality may vary. It's really annoying to study the proper use of the language in school when they change the rules from one grade to the next.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
But what if someone had already copyrighted the phrases "weenie wiggle" and "weenie wiggler"? The thought of a patent on a "weenie wiggler" is somewhat frightening if you stop to imagine just what sort of device that might be, or how it might misfunction.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
The use of the phrase
"from the publisher to the subscriber"
leaves slashdot out. None of us subscribe, AFAIK.
About a month ago I had to obtain a trial subscription to Slate in order to read one little article. I can read all the slashdot I've got time for without ever subscribing and I don't even have to give a name or address to post replies.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
This thread quickly degenerated to insults and invocating icons of the extreme left or right. /. the crackers of the world would make www.microsoft.com an unuseable URL. /. defense fund. /. defense fund should M$ or one of its paid lackeys initiate a patent violation suite against /.
If M$ tries to sue
However, after reading all of the threads submitted so far I see that no one has yet to ante up to the
Rob, I use my real name when I post because I stand behind what I say, and you have my email addres should you need to contact me.
I pledge $100 to the
The rest of you: If the need arises put up or shut up.
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
Take a look at this: Microsoft Patents Ones, Zeros
pronoblem
Imagine one person owning the process of free speech. There are hundreds-of-thousands of magazines in the world, printed on tangible paper with tangible ink.
The patent office is handing out to someone the web's equivalent of publishing almost anything which is 'periodical'. How can that be legitimately patented?
If this were in print-media, this would mean every high-school in the country would be infringing such a patent by printing a school paper. Same with churches, stores, major papers and magazines.
This is the same thing.
so this is supposed to encourage the best and
:-)
brightest to work for them? So they can
pack up and leave the US when MS files a suit?
No, the bigger they are the more they fill the
docket in their federal district. If you did that, you would be come less popular with the
local judge who handles all your frivolous suits.
Eventually you will bog down, and won't be able
to sue anyone, no matter how much money you have.
(There is only so much time, and only so much the
government will allow you to take advantage of).
Even if you are Bill Gates.
Billionaires are not always everybody's best friend. It's not that there are people who can't be bought, it's that there are people to whom
he is not giving any (or enough) of his money.
I am one of these people.
But, Microsoft is hiring. Maybe work there, and
change policy... The old guard is retiring soon
anyway.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
The first author's name is Piter de Vries! House Harkonnen is at our very doors! (-:
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Bill Gates/Paul Allen/Microsoft where either individually or combined large stakeholders in the Human Genome Project when it made it's big press splash, however many years ago that is now. Yep, the project to map the entire DNA structure for the human race has friends in Redmond. We don't make the keyboard more ergonomic, we make your hands work with it.
It was copyrighted, not patented, and I believe Paul McCartney, formerly of Beatles fame, purchased the copyright some time ago.
Matt
Honestly, I get so tired of the Right WingNuts bringing up this false distinction between "Republic" and "Democracy". At least the "Tastes Great" vs "Less Filling" debate, while equally mindless, had at least some entertainment value and helped to sell beer. This "debate" has no redeeming value whatsoever, so just don't even start that crap here.
Who cares what the fsck it's called? We all get to vote directly or indirectly on matters of public importance, and it works, most of the time.
Let's split hairs over something important, shall we? Thank you.
Zontar
(somewhere in tenn.)
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
This new practice of "patent everything possible" is getting to be totally rediculous.
Next someone will patent wiggling your pecker to get rid of that last drop.
The lawyers will inherit the earth.
DrDev
You can patent a method, not an idea.
- d
Since Microsoft appears to have no shame about doing this kin of stuff, it is best to publicize this by:
1) Find out about each patent in IBM site,
2) Send an e-mail to patent office and register
your objections
3) Let us form a web-site where everyone can
register their complaints, their opinions
and the actual history of patent under
question.
4) Publicize this in the newsgroups.
5) Let the publishers/magazines/authors
know about this. More articles the better.
Since Microsoft seems to have no shame, let us shame them into it.
Sinan
Also, what, exactly, makes people think the moon falls under the earth's laws anyway?
And if it does, the Heinlein story had a point...if the moon is under the laws of earth, then, logically, the people who own land under it own it. There is no 'you don't own land over your property if it's not connected to your land' exception to the property ownership laws. The law has already decided you own all the way down to the center of the earth, and you own the air over your land (technically, airplanes and stuff have the same kind of right of passage that 'landlocked' people have to get to a road), so, logically, if the moon passes over your land you own it while it does so.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Also, what, exactly, makes people think the moon falls under the earth's laws anyway?
And if it does, the Heinlein story had a point...if the moon is under the laws of earth, then, logically, the people who own land under it own it. There is no 'you don't own land over your property if it's not connected to your land' exception to the property ownership laws. The law has already decided you own all the way down to the center of the earth, and you own the air over your land (technically, airplanes and stuff have the same kind of right of passage that 'landlocked' people have to get to a road, called an easement), so, logically, if the moon passes over your land you own it while it does so.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
A name that you own is a Trademark. You cannot call your copier a Xerox unless it is actually made by Xerox.
A patent covers an invention. If you use light to disrupt the electrical charge on a plate and then add toner to the plate so that it sticks only where there was not a lot of light and then transfer the toner to some paper making a copy of the image then Xerox can stop you while thier patent was (is?) in effect. If you change the shape of the plate so that it is on a cylinder for example, and change the metal, toner and other elements enough you can go ahead an make your copying machine, especally if your version works better.
Before Reagan you could not patent software, now you can not only patent software but tiny, trivial, obvious notions that are vaugely related to your software. A B1 bomber has several thousand components, each of which could involve several patents. The software has 7 million lines of code, it takes perhaps three lines of code on average to violate a software patent. It is highly doubtfull that there is a single piece of functional, usefull software that does not violate at least a few patents.
Copyrights cover creative works in a fixed medium. Noone can copy anything you create without your permission (though in posts like this there is a great deal of implied and implicit permision).
An Object at rest CANNOT BE STOPPED! -The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight
I recalled that sometime ago a document generator is mentioned, which generates some "professional research papers" or something like that, to show off natural language processing.....
:)
Somebody care to make a patent generator which can spit out hundreds of ideas every hour, then compare them against the patent archive followed by submitting all patents?
Let's see how patent office can deal with THAT
http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US05640562__ &language=en
2 __&language=en
Seems Sun Microsystems has patented device drivers.
And could this one be taken as the patent of an OS kernel?
http://www.patents.ibm.com/details?pn=US0558403
This pales in comparison to how many biotech companies own portions of dna sequencing and the like. That really disgusted me. My last company worked on HIV (amoung other things) and we'd collaborate on and patent all kinds of stuff. And our pockets weren't that deep.
What it comes down to is that someone owns the method to cure you of something - or how you can even reproduce. And when they see money in it, they'll squeeze us all. I know. I watched my boss turn down several collaborations with some big universities (our company made the purest form of large proteins/peptides *snythetically* - no one else can do that) because he wanted more money out of them or didn't like some member of their staff.
Total arrogance and stupidity. Who knows what could have came out of those collab's.... Makes me really wanna live on another planet and start all over.
...if I understand this correctly (easy to see if i don't, since i'm no patent lawyer), M$ is trying to lay claim to basically ANYTHING that one views on the 'Net, including (but not limited to) CNN.COM, ABCNEWS.COM, etc?
this is getting STUPID. M$ needs to be cut down at the knees.
_______
When politicians are involved, everyone loses.
Here's an article I came across in the newsgroups.
The oldest online magazine (zine) there is.
Nicely organized with dates and titles.
Looks like M$ got fucked by the cDc again
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Four years in jail
No Trial, No Bail
New worlds are not born in the vacuum of abstract
ideas, but in the fight for daily bread --Rudolf Rocke
That should be "As I have trolled before".
I wouldn't care who did it; the patent is poorly awarded. That it is Microsoft is largely irrelevant, but they do seem to be doing rather a lot of it the last couple of years.
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The Internet is the Suppository of All Knowledge. You get it in the end.
Didn't Einstein once work for the Swiss Patent Office? Apparently he was not afraid to tell inventors that their inventions were unworkable, unoriginal and impossible" (but I forget the occasion). I guess they just can't get patent officers like that any more ;-)
Ahem. What I *think* you're all referring to is an old story by Robert Heinlein, entitled "The Man Who Sold the Moon". A good story, and a wonderful insight into the basis of his "Future History" series, but still a story, AFAIK.
Pope Felix the Scurrilous.
Computer Geek by day, religious Icon by night.
First off you're wrong. I'd be pissed if Linus had a patent on this. It's just wrong. Web pages aren't technology, and it's really silly that anyone can own a concept this broad.
Second, If you don't like microsoft bashing go somewhere else. Part of what makes slashdot slashdot is microsoft bashing. Either like it, ignore it, or go somewhere else.
-matt
I hereby claim the patent rights to scratch my ass in the privacy of my dorm room.
This is almost as absurd...don't you think?
Yes they are a bit rediculous, but this particular patent seems to be talking about M$ active chanel and active desktop.
Personally I think that the USPTO is slacking an just issueing these things. Again the Patent Examiners are not qualified!
Only 'flamers' flame!
I don't think that slashdot infringes on that patent, there may be some places that do. The patent is overly broad and hopefully will get shot down at some point. The system in place here is obviously similar to the system described by Gates 'n Co., but so was Westinghouse's two filament lightbulb to Edison's single filament light bulb. Similarity does not equal patent infringment, and relatively minor differences between products often mean that a patent that may seem to be infringed upon actually isn't.
Beyond this specific case, i noticed another comment that mentioned the 'patent everything' phenomenon. I agree that this really needs to be stopped, companies know that the majority of the patents that they have been granted are overly broad and unenforceable, but they also know that in all probability there are at least one or two of theirs that aren't and those two will more than make up for the money spent getting the other few thousand, and will likely bring them lots of $$$. Software patents are a tricky thing because it is so easy for people to come up with similar looking things that function totally differently. There is some place for software patents, like encryption methods, encoding methods, compression methods, just as an example. I think it comes down to the fact that 99 to 100% of the people in the patent office don't understand the technology, if they did, alot of patents wouldn't be awarded.
Oddly enough, just the other day I attended a talk on patents in the US as they apply to engineering and software. Here are some quick facts:
1) In the US, proof of original concept is required. That is, the first to think of and implement (and have proof of this), can patent something. So, if you can prove that you implemented something before someone else who has a patent on something, you can fight it.
2) Software is patentable... but only the interface, which is why, I suppose, MS was able to get the patent described above.
3) Algorithms are patentable, but only in some sort of interface. So, a pure algorithm cannot be patented, but use of that algorithm in a program with a interface can be patented.
4) Patents now last 20 years from the time of filing.
Now, everytime I see one of these crazy patents, it makes me mad. I think, "How the hell could they allow these things to be patented?" Well, I was told that the patent office is understaffed, and that they are looking to hire more examiners. The problem is, the salary is only about $27000 US/year. My guess is these people don't know very much about computers.
The other thing is, yes, it is irritating to see these patents, but the thing is, they go away. And once they do, they become public domain.
He said, "You'll be able to tell your grandchildren that you helped assemble the first NT supercomputer," and I cringed.
SRLA (slashot reader lisence agreement):
by reading this message you agree to be my slave.
By not reading this message you agree to sell me your whole family for $2. (AND be my slave).
-- begin message ---
Every living person should pay me.
Every existing atom is my property.
While I'm at it, I copyright the words "Hello", "are" and the first 18 letters of the english alphabet.
Everybody that wants to use them, must pay me loyalties.
Have i forgot anything?
Well, I claim mars to be mine, and also the pacific ocean.
(this case reminds me about the man who claimed the moon and sold millions of dollars worth of property)
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I'm going to live forever, or die in the attempt.
In fact, if the patent holder had any smarts, they'd prosecute individuals and small, underfunded companies first, because then they could build up a case law upholding their patent, before taking on those who had the money needed to really contest it. I wish that our system worked better than this, but in reality I know that it doesn't. In my opinion, this can only be fixed by LEGISLATION, not LITIGATION -- although unfortunately that seems unlikely as well, at least in the near future.
-- Frustrated Individual
Look up on the top of the page, at the Apple, the Game Controller, and cute little Penguin.
Look like Icons to me.
Patents and copyright are too deep into economy to be taken out, agreed.
But in this information age, the timings of it all are growing bad. If I publish an idea on the internet, other companies can still patent that same idea within a year, without me being able to stop them, even losing my rights on the idea if I don't patent first! Did I do something wrong? I don't think so...
Even now, big companies drop patents (software, mostly) after a couple of years, not willing to pay for all 17 years they are entitled to.
So do not drop patents, but change them to fit the needs of current society. Three years for a software feature would suit me.
I don't think computer skills are a subject on this one... Common sense should be (have been) enough. I mean, this kind of text apllies to (if you haven't noticed) such basic activities as mailing lists... So WTF just happenned? Did Microsoft all of a sudden invent the Mail Distibution System? I say fry all patents on intangible or otherwise too wide-reaching definitions/techniques!
...and the time will have come. And the name shall be known... The Kylrathi Viper Clan.
... Bill Gates is
micro + soft
(small) + (limp)
sidster--
--sidster
Play lotto? Try http://www.alottofun.com/
Patent #6662369666
:)
:-D
The application of ink, graphite, or lead to a piece of paper (or other writing surface) for the purpose of presenting words, images, or other visual representations.
I'll make a fortune on the licensing
Boy isnt that beautifully uninformed.....
Microsoft is not being prosecuted for being sucessful. It is being prosecuted for being devoid of a soul. Yes corporations should have one of those.
A lot of people say that Microsoft isn't a monopoly in the classic sense. The oil and steel companies controlled the railroads forcing compeditors to take obsene rates.
Its true that microsoft doesn't rely on classic means of transportation like the railroads. It relies on the new electronic means of transportation the internet. By controlling preexisting standards like network protocols and css and creating propietary standards like activeX they are forcing the computer world to live by their terms.
Fortunately Microsoft is finally reaping what it has sowed. Not only by being prosecuted by the feds, but by being mired in their own legasy. Recent news of the W2K problem will be only the tip of the iceberg.
I only hope to see who divorces themselves from Microsoft next.
XXIII
Fortunately for all of us, a patent is only as good as its defense. If they can't defend lots of the alleged infringements in court then the patent loses its value over time and becomes essentially useless.
Indeed, probably one of the most horrendous displays of apalling and downright terrifying arrogance I've witnessed.
I guess that puts it before autumn '94 - I remember registering at Wired's website when I began at university autumn of '94. I don't remember what their interface looked like at that point, though.